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NFT: Cespedes comes up lame in rehab game

giantsFC : 6/9/2018 10:29 pm
I mean, can anyone say they didnt see this coming?


Met fails v367.1.1 - ( New Window )
Once you sign  
KWhite2250 : 6/9/2018 10:41 pm : link
That contract to be a Met you either suck or get hurt all the time
Oh, his pussy is sore;  
RottenApple : 6/9/2018 11:31 pm : link
Add another 4-6 weeks.
8 game losing streak  
Vanzetti : 6/9/2018 11:47 pm : link
Manager who has lost the team

Season and organization in the toilet

Cespedes is not in any hurry to come back.
When you act desperate  
bigbluehoya : 6/9/2018 11:55 pm : link
For a player that has already clearly shown you that he cares about golf more than baseball, you get to right here.
No rush to hurry back  
spike : 6/10/2018 12:33 am : link
Might as well get back to 100%
He's a fucking clown  
Rob in Rockaway : 6/10/2018 12:43 am : link
dead money.
I swear...nothing ever ever ever goes right for the Mets.  
PhiPsi125 : 6/10/2018 1:02 am : link
They could have the same exact team as the Yankees and find a way to fuck it up.
Hes a turd  
Sammo85 : 6/10/2018 8:18 am : link
As soon as he got his new deal he became a lazy clownish self absorbed turd. Hes aged and cant stay healthy now.

I was one of the few who wanted no part of keeping him. Now hes an albatross in every which way on the roster, the payroll, the clubhouse.
Mets considering  
pjcas18 : 6/10/2018 8:36 am : link
sending Conforto to AAA.

this season is officially a big bag of shit.

RE: Mets considering  
PhiPsi125 : 6/10/2018 9:18 am : link
In comment 13987848 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
sending Conforto to AAA.

this season is officially a big bag of shit.


Yet, Jose Reyes remains on the team. Fantastic.
last year the clubhouse went to crap when things went bad  
Eric on Li : 6/10/2018 9:29 am : link
and I think right now we are kind of seeing that just adding 1 positive influence (Frazier) didn't really fix anything.

We know Cespedes is a big time diva. We're unfortunately locked into him, but what has probably not made things better is keeping players who had issues in the clubhouse here last year (cabrera requested a trade, didn't want to move positions, Bruce had some negative comments) and bringing in guys who didn't exactly enjoy great reputations in other clubhouses (specifically Gonzalez). Not saying those guys have done anything specifically wrong, just that I don't think they are the types who help you build a positive culture.

Forgetting the changes to talent level on the field (with all the moves Sandy has made the past couple years), 1 big difference from the WS team to this one is that team had a much better group in the clubhouse. Granderson and Murphy in particular were hard workers and leaders. Wright was more present that year, and even additions like Kelly Johnson were positive influences. Duda was quiet but never really loafed or anything. It's astonishing to me that this roster is setting records for losing at Citi field when even injured it's infinitely more talented than the groups that started Kirk Niewenhuis and Rick Ankiel and Colin Cowgill and Brad Eamus.
Is there any Mets fan that prefers a run at it vs blowing it up?  
Shecky : 6/10/2018 9:41 am : link
Im not talking trading DeGrom or Thor blow it up. Im talking about just flat out giving up on this season. Poll of Mets fans, curious what percent want to still make a run for it this year - simple yes or no?

Common sense says youve got to call up Dom Smith and give him a run at 1B.
Common sense says youve got to hand 2B to Cecchini when hes healthy.
Common sense says your goal for the deadline is to try to get out of future years of dead weight with Ces and Bruces contract.
Commons sense says youve got to build up the value for, and by the deadline trade away Ramos, Blevins, Droobs and Familia.
Common sense says youve got to at least listen to any offers for Swarz and Frazier.
Common sense says you shop Wheeler, a FA after next year.
Commons sense says teams will ask about DeGrom when you mention wheeler, listen, and ask for franchise changing packages and only make the trade if you cant turn it down.
Common sense says you will need bodies to replace the guys you trade away. Fill those spots with Rule 5 eligible guys this offseason and see what youve got. Rosenblum, McNeil, Bashlor etc

This is all simple, common sense stuff. As of right now we pick I believe seventh only that high because of 11-1 start. Again, simple yes or no - do you want the Mets to make a run for 2018? Or as a Mets fan, do you prefer they low it up THIS YEAR and start getting ready for next year?
The whole organization  
Sammo85 : 6/10/2018 9:46 am : link
needs a flushing, no pun intended. New owners, new front office, new scouts, new roster philosophy and composition from ground up.

Cant wait for the big offseason where Jeff Wilpon promotes an undeserving John Ricco to be our new GM (and his patsy of course).

Degrom deserves so much more than to be a part of this mess.

RE: Is there any Mets fan that prefers a run at it vs blowing it up?  
Eric on Li : 6/10/2018 9:55 am : link
In comment 13987865 Shecky said:
Quote:
Im not talking trading DeGrom or Thor blow it up. Im talking about just flat out giving up on this season. Poll of Mets fans, curious what percent want to still make a run for it this year - simple yes or no?

Common sense says youve got to call up Dom Smith and give him a run at 1B.
Common sense says youve got to hand 2B to Cecchini when hes healthy.
Common sense says your goal for the deadline is to try to get out of future years of dead weight with Ces and Bruces contract.
Commons sense says youve got to build up the value for, and by the deadline trade away Ramos, Blevins, Droobs and Familia.
Common sense says youve got to at least listen to any offers for Swarz and Frazier.
Common sense says you shop Wheeler, a FA after next year.
Commons sense says teams will ask about DeGrom when you mention wheeler, listen, and ask for franchise changing packages and only make the trade if you cant turn it down.
Common sense says you will need bodies to replace the guys you trade away. Fill those spots with Rule 5 eligible guys this offseason and see what youve got. Rosenblum, McNeil, Bashlor etc

This is all simple, common sense stuff. As of right now we pick I believe seventh only that high because of 11-1 start. Again, simple yes or no - do you want the Mets to make a run for 2018? Or as a Mets fan, do you prefer they low it up THIS YEAR and start getting ready for next year?


I'm pretty sure the answer yes with 1 caveat - what is the internal opinion of Callaway? Rhetorical question, unless you want to answer. His comments/behavior the last couple weeks may have cratered the entire clubhouse when it may have just been a down period due to injuries. If I had the opinion that he's a guy truly in over his head and not just a rookie manager making some mistakes, I'd seriously consider giving Collins a month before the deadline to see what happens.

This roster is highly highly flawed. But if they get to the halfway point of the season with a healthy Thor/JDG/Familia and Matz/Wheeler are still pitching well and they're within 3-4 games, this shithole roster would still have a better chance at a miracle run than most others this franchise has fielded this decade. And a better chance than the rosters in the future since I highly doubt they are signing a better closer this offseason and there are only so many years left with JDG/Thor together.
RE: Is there any Mets fan that prefers a run at it vs blowing it up?  
pjcas18 : 6/10/2018 9:58 am : link
In comment 13987865 Shecky said:
Quote:
Im not talking trading DeGrom or Thor blow it up. Im talking about just flat out giving up on this season. Poll of Mets fans, curious what percent want to still make a run for it this year - simple yes or no?

Common sense says youve got to call up Dom Smith and give him a run at 1B.
Common sense says youve got to hand 2B to Cecchini when hes healthy.
Common sense says your goal for the deadline is to try to get out of future years of dead weight with Ces and Bruces contract.
Commons sense says youve got to build up the value for, and by the deadline trade away Ramos, Blevins, Droobs and Familia.
Common sense says youve got to at least listen to any offers for Swarz and Frazier.
Common sense says you shop Wheeler, a FA after next year.
Commons sense says teams will ask about DeGrom when you mention wheeler, listen, and ask for franchise changing packages and only make the trade if you cant turn it down.
Common sense says you will need bodies to replace the guys you trade away. Fill those spots with Rule 5 eligible guys this offseason and see what youve got. Rosenblum, McNeil, Bashlor etc

This is all simple, common sense stuff. As of right now we pick I believe seventh only that high because of 11-1 start. Again, simple yes or no - do you want the Mets to make a run for 2018? Or as a Mets fan, do you prefer they low it up THIS YEAR and start getting ready for next year?



Agree with all but who the F is Rosenblum?

Is that like the doctor in Fletch? Dr. Rosenpenis?



RE: RE: Is there any Mets fan that prefers a run at it vs blowing it up?  
pjcas18 : 6/10/2018 9:59 am : link
In comment 13987870 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 13987865 Shecky said:


Quote:


Im not talking trading DeGrom or Thor blow it up. Im talking about just flat out giving up on this season. Poll of Mets fans, curious what percent want to still make a run for it this year - simple yes or no?

Common sense says youve got to call up Dom Smith and give him a run at 1B.
Common sense says youve got to hand 2B to Cecchini when hes healthy.
Common sense says your goal for the deadline is to try to get out of future years of dead weight with Ces and Bruces contract.
Commons sense says youve got to build up the value for, and by the deadline trade away Ramos, Blevins, Droobs and Familia.
Common sense says youve got to at least listen to any offers for Swarz and Frazier.
Common sense says you shop Wheeler, a FA after next year.
Commons sense says teams will ask about DeGrom when you mention wheeler, listen, and ask for franchise changing packages and only make the trade if you cant turn it down.
Common sense says you will need bodies to replace the guys you trade away. Fill those spots with Rule 5 eligible guys this offseason and see what youve got. Rosenblum, McNeil, Bashlor etc

This is all simple, common sense stuff. As of right now we pick I believe seventh only that high because of 11-1 start. Again, simple yes or no - do you want the Mets to make a run for 2018? Or as a Mets fan, do you prefer they low it up THIS YEAR and start getting ready for next year?



I'm pretty sure the answer yes with 1 caveat - what is the internal opinion of Callaway? Rhetorical question, unless you want to answer. His comments/behavior the last couple weeks may have cratered the entire clubhouse when it may have just been a down period due to injuries. If I had the opinion that he's a guy truly in over his head and not just a rookie manager making some mistakes, I'd seriously consider giving Collins a month before the deadline to see what happens.

This roster is highly highly flawed. But if they get to the halfway point of the season with a healthy Thor/JDG/Familia and Matz/Wheeler are still pitching well and they're within 3-4 games, this shithole roster would still have a better chance at a miracle run than most others this franchise has fielded this decade. And a better chance than the rosters in the future since I highly doubt they are signing a better closer this offseason and there are only so many years left with JDG/Thor together.


Collins? Freudian slip?
Lol PJ  
Shecky : 6/10/2018 10:12 am : link
Autocorrect
Rosenboom, minor league lefty.
PJ - no im actually serious  
Eric on Li : 6/10/2018 10:17 am : link
he's still in the org and he at least always had a good rep with the players and getting them to play hard. I'll use a Giants analogy, if I was convinced right now that Callaway was Ben Mcadoo, having Collins still in the org would be a little bit like letting Coughlin takeover midseason if I thought the year didn't need to be wasted. jack Mckeon did it twice I think with the Marlins and I think 1 of them was their WS year.

A lot of "ifs" in there so I acknowledge this would be very remote option, but beyond all the reoccurring problems Mickey Callaway's performance so far may be the most disappointing part of the season.
I old enough to remeber when Callaway was hired  
pjcas18 : 6/10/2018 10:20 am : link
nearly everyone who had an opinion wanted this guy.

now 61 games into his first season with the Mets and his first as a major league manager you want to fire him for Terry Collins.

LOL.

Keep Callaway  
spike : 6/10/2018 11:00 am : link
And fire the FO
Callaway  
Sammo85 : 6/10/2018 11:12 am : link
was a hire in tandem with Eiland in the completely deluded belief they could magically become horse whisperers and fix the pitchers back to 2015 and all problems would be solved and wed be great again.


RE: Callaway  
Mike in NY : 6/10/2018 11:46 am : link
In comment 13987920 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
was a hire in tandem with Eiland in the completely deluded belief they could magically become horse whisperers and fix the pitchers back to 2015 and all problems would be solved and wed be great again.



Gsellman and Lugo looked far better than they did last year. Ditto for Matz and Wheeler. The problem is I am not sure that any of them are more than 5-6 inning pitchers on a good day. No manager/pitching coach is going to change that. The Mets have two pitchers who are capable of giving 7-8 innings in a start and that is deGrom and Thor. Is it the coaches fault that the bullpen is full of mental midgets like Ramos, Familia, and Robles or young players like Sewald and Rhame who are going to have poor outings, but need to learn how to rebound? It also doesn't help that with Thor out you are requiring the bullpen to give 4 innings on a nightly basis in high pressure situations because you do not have an offense that will score more than however many of home runs they will hit on a given night.
Cespedes about to mail it in  
Rflairr : 6/10/2018 1:20 pm : link
.
RE: I old enough to remeber when Callaway was hired  
Eric on Li : 6/10/2018 2:44 pm : link
In comment 13987886 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
nearly everyone who had an opinion wanted this guy.

now 61 games into his first season with the Mets and his first as a major league manager you want to fire him for Terry Collins.

LOL.


12 months ago McAdoo was a coach of the year candidate - if you lose the locker room or clubhouse its hard come back from that. Not saying Calloway has definitely lost it - only someone inside would know that, but his comments have been somewhat alarming. Baseball managers are a lot more disposable than football coaches. And as much as we got excited about the callaway hiring (I did), 12 months ago I didnt even know his name and Id guess thats true for most met fans.
I certainly don't think bringing back Collins is the answer  
steve in ky : 6/10/2018 2:50 pm : link
but this season probably shows he wasn't near the problem that many fans made him out to be these past seasons.
RE: I certainly don't think bringing back Collins is the answer  
Eric on Li : 6/10/2018 2:52 pm : link
In comment 13988037 steve in ky said:
Quote:
but this season probably shows he wasn't near the problem that many fans made him out to be these past seasons.


Agreed. A lot of similarities to the coughlin situation.
an equivalent to the Giants  
pjcas18 : 6/10/2018 3:31 pm : link
would be firing McAdoo after 5 games.

The Mets are a laughingstock right now for a variety of reasons, firing Callaway after 61 games would add to it.

Replacing him with Terry Collins would add to it even more.

I am one who believes baseball managers have very little influence on W's and L's. So I never blames Terry for the record, but if you believe that and say you think the number is 4 or 5 wins, that's the difference for competitive teams between wild card and going home or wild card and division in some cases.

Callaway is not the difference with this team. If you blame the bullpen blowing practically every one of deGrom's starts on Callaway then we can agree to disagree. If you blame the anemic offense on the fact Callaway has made some mistakes then we can agree to disagree.

Callaway hasn't been perfect by any means, but replacing him with a guy who clearly needed to be removed is silly.

Now, if you were to say replace him with Tony LaRussa then let's talk, but I guess distance makes the heart grow fonder because Terry Collins was not Tony Larussa.
I agree Managers generally dont effect wins and losses much  
Eric on Li : 6/10/2018 3:54 pm : link
But its undeniable that sometimes teams quit on a manager and making a change hs an impact. Neither Jerry manuel nor willie Randolph would ordinarily make a big difference but in a specific moment sometimes theres a short term impact.

The laughing stock thing is going to happen to this org no matter what they do until they win. They just got swept by the orioles and are on their worst home losing streak at the new stadium despite the starting rotation having a 2 era. Their best players are being photoshopped into Yankees uniforms. In the last 2 decades they won 2 divisions and were laughing stocks pretty much every other year. Late season collapses, internal bickering, front office fighting reporters, madoff mess, slashing payroll, criticizing fans, injuries, etc - this current moment in time isnt even that much of a low point.
RE: I agree Managers generally dont effect wins and losses much  
pjcas18 : 6/10/2018 3:59 pm : link
In comment 13988062 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
But its undeniable that sometimes teams quit on a manager and making a change hs an impact. Neither Jerry manuel nor willie Randolph would ordinarily make a big difference but in a specific moment sometimes theres a short term impact.

The laughing stock thing is going to happen to this org no matter what they do until they win. They just got swept by the orioles and are on their worst home losing streak at the new stadium despite the starting rotation having a 2 era. Their best players are being photoshopped into Yankees uniforms. In the last 2 decades they won 2 divisions and were laughing stocks pretty much every other year. Late season collapses, internal bickering, front office fighting reporters, madoff mess, slashing payroll, criticizing fans, injuries, etc - this current moment in time isnt even that much of a low point.


that's why I ride it out instead of making a manager change. At this time. After the season sure, Callaway wouldn't be the only one and done manager, but IMO the key is Alderson, he should be replaced first. and let the new GM bring in a manager.

It seems like though Alderson has a lifetime appointment as Mets GM, so not sure anything changes in the short-term.
I agree - a big factor deciding now would b giving new gm clean slate  
Eric on Li : 6/10/2018 4:14 pm : link
This org has everything ass backwards though and thats what makes these excercises tough. A good org would hold people accountable After almost a decade, hire a competent executive to run things and also more properly invested in all aspects of the team in the first place. Here theres no accountability and minimum investment so the results generally suck and we as fans forced to decide between rooting for hailmary lucky runs or punts to rebuilds that go nowhere. There arent many good options right now, especially if the commitment to winning from the top doesnt change.
Agree Eric  
pjcas18 : 6/10/2018 4:42 pm : link
but some of it requires some perspective.

I am not a Yankees hater at all, my father and brother (and a lot of my extended family) are diehard Yankees fans, so I don't hate the Yankees so I use them just as a comparison.

but 9 year old kids have seen the Mets in more World Series than the Yankees.

7 year old kids have seen the Cardinals and Mets (only mention the Cardinals because DMM brings them up so often) in the same number of world series.

11 year old kids have seen the Red Sox and Mets in the same number of World Series (Red Sox won of course).

My point is only fans give a shit if you win 88 games and miss the playoffs or win 75 games and miss the playoffs.

If you don't win the World Series you didn't win.

so yeah, the Mets have been awful in between their WS appearances and didn't win the last couple of appearances, but relatively speaking a handful of teams have a better "record".

Not to say changes shouldn't be made, they should, and the circus is not acceptable, but sometimes perspective is helpful.
Some good Mets news  
pjcas18 : 6/10/2018 5:14 pm : link
Quote:

Michael Mayer
‏ @mikemayerMMO

Source: Mets are promoting left-hander David Peterson to the St. Lucie Mets.

The Mets 2017 first round pick is 1-4 with a 1.82 ERA, 0.96 WHIP and has 57 strikeouts compared to only 11 walks in nine starts over 59.1 innings for the Columbia Fireflies this year.
1-4 with a 1.82 ERA?  
JayBinQueens : 6/10/2018 6:59 pm : link
sounds like he fits perfectly with the big club
RE: Agree Eric  
Eric on Li : 6/10/2018 8:28 pm : link
In comment 13988088 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but some of it requires some perspective.

I am not a Yankees hater at all, my father and brother (and a lot of my extended family) are diehard Yankees fans, so I don't hate the Yankees so I use them just as a comparison.

but 9 year old kids have seen the Mets in more World Series than the Yankees.

7 year old kids have seen the Cardinals and Mets (only mention the Cardinals because DMM brings them up so often) in the same number of world series.

11 year old kids have seen the Red Sox and Mets in the same number of World Series (Red Sox won of course).

My point is only fans give a shit if you win 88 games and miss the playoffs or win 75 games and miss the playoffs.

If you don't win the World Series you didn't win.

so yeah, the Mets have been awful in between their WS appearances and didn't win the last couple of appearances, but relatively speaking a handful of teams have a better "record".

Not to say changes shouldn't be made, they should, and the circus is not acceptable, but sometimes perspective is helpful.


I actually agree with that mostly. That's why I give Alderson more credit than most I think because I think he did well with a terrible hand. I think it's fair to move on from him because he's had some money to spend since that WS and the results simply haven't been good. But honestly, I wouldn't have been upset if they brought in someone with a fresh plan like Depo as GM and kept Alderson around in some capacity too. I just hate the thought of Omar because I think that's the exact wrong direction, but that's a different convo.

In the practical of "what to do now" I do think there's a crossroads. Sell everything not nailed down or don't. I think most people are going to lean towards selling right now. My point, that I think is a little bit contrarian, is that if the rotation stays strong, any year with a healthy JDG/Thor/Familia is worth going for it (within reason). Realistically I just don't expect this ownership group to have more top talent than that at 1 time. With Cespedes not going anywhere any time soon this is a "win now" group, even if it's a longshot. That's also why I think it's fair to question whether or not Callaway is a win now manager.
Practical moves  
Vanzetti : 6/11/2018 3:07 am : link
1. Get rid of unproductive veterans. Avon should have been cut two weeks ago. Reyes should go as soon as Flores is ready.

2. Send Conforto down. He needs to get right and its not happening with the negative environment on Mets.

Sandy did another very poor job this offseason, but this team should not be this bad. They are playing under their talent level.
Can they please sign  
giantsFC : 6/11/2018 3:29 am : link
Doc Gooden
Mookie Wilson
Darryl Strawberry
Wally Backman
Tom Seaver
And Uber terrorist Lenny Dykstra

Their WAR would be astronomical compared to this lineup.
the Mets usually keep my interest until around the All star break  
Dr. D : 6/11/2018 2:49 pm : link
might not make it that far this year.
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