Couldn't agree more with these guys. It's pissed me off year after year, the Giants' inability to field an offense that even remotely suited Eli's strengths. Link - ( New Window )
“I agree with him,” Tuck said. “We all know what Eli can do when he is healthy and when he has comparable athletes around him. I don’t think he had those. Anything other than that, you are just lying to yourself.”
“I can only talk toward history,” Tuck said. “History tells me that every time Eli has been doubted, every time he has been put in situations like this, not only has he responded but the team has responded around him. That’s what I’m hoping for this season.”
“I agree with him,” Tuck said. “We all know what Eli can do when he is healthy and when he has comparable athletes around him. I don’t think he had those. Anything other than that, you are just lying to yourself.”
“I can only talk toward history,” Tuck said. “History tells me that every time Eli has been doubted, every time he has been put in situations like this, not only has he responded but the team has responded around him. That’s what I’m hoping for this season.”
is that it seems like the Giants willfully failed to build the team around Eli. They tried, it's that the draft picks and free agent signings by and large failed. It's incompetence but not malice.
is that it seems like the Giants willfully failed to build the team around Eli. They tried, it's that the draft picks and free agent signings by and large failed. It's incompetence but not malice.
The true failure occurred at the top. John Mara either not realizing that Reese needed to go OR delaying the decision to move onto another GM for whatever reason (loyalty, false hope, etc).
RE: the only issue I have with the tone of these posts Â
is that it seems like the Giants willfully failed to build the team around Eli. They tried, it's that the draft picks and free agent signings by and large failed. It's incompetence but not malice.
this
their high ol draft picks failed or etc..not like they didnt try to address the Ol..just bad talent evaluation, injury, or etc
RE: RE: the only issue I have with the tone of these posts Â
is that it seems like the Giants willfully failed to build the team around Eli. They tried, it's that the draft picks and free agent signings by and large failed. It's incompetence but not malice.
The true failure occurred at the top. John Mara either not realizing that Reese needed to go OR delaying the decision to move onto another GM for whatever reason (loyalty, false hope, etc).
They rode the Super Bowls, plain and simple. And, I think most people would have done the same. I look at the endings of Bird, McHale, and Parish and think that is more the norm than the exception. The exception was shipping Garnett and Pierce to Brooklyn.
I meant rode the management team, not the players Â
Was apart of the 2009 team that started 5-0 and still missed the playoffs and the 2010 disaster so he should keep quiet. That 2010 could of went to the super bowl if they got in.
for all these years only to now see the wind direction change.
I have been posting this on BBI since 2013 that Reese ruined Eli's best years. Got a lot of criticism for that. Interesting how the view changes now that guys like Tuck and O'Hara agree.
is that it seems like the Giants willfully failed to build the team around Eli. They tried, it's that the draft picks and free agent signings by and large failed. It's incompetence but not malice.
The true failure occurred at the top. John Mara either not realizing that Reese needed to go OR delaying the decision to move onto another GM for whatever reason (loyalty, false hope, etc).
The Giants had a loyalty storm on their hands - a HC and a GM who shared blame, and they didn't want to make a move on either until it was too late. Their loyalty and desire for continuity, in general not a bad thing, proved to be their downfall here.
RE: the only issue I have with the tone of these posts Â
is that it seems like the Giants willfully failed to build the team around Eli. They tried, it's that the draft picks and free agent signings by and large failed. It's incompetence but not malice.
You are right that the picks did not work out, but they also picked too few OL and waited too long, forcing the picks due to need....hence the bad picks.
The article says they used 7 of 56 picks on OL. That is about 12% of picks used on OL. Taking out QB, The team is comprised 24% (5/21) of OL players. We should have picked twice as many OL under Reese.
for all these years only to now see the wind direction change.
I have been posting this on BBI since 2013 that Reese ruined Eli's best years. Got a lot of criticism for that. Interesting how the view changes now that guys like Tuck and O'Hara agree.
It's a circular argument. Fine if you want to pat yourself on the back for having the opinion that Reese didn't do enough, but they won it all twice, in no small part to drafts and free agency moves that Reese presided over.
"Reese wasted Eli's prime years" is a NY Post quality headline. Some of the greatest players of all time never even got to a super bowl much less won two. Winning championships is supposed to be hard, not a thing that anyone can do if you just try and want to.
may have wasted Eli's prime, but it wasn't for a lack of trying - they simply made poor moves.
Eli has had some excellent WR's to throw to. What he hasn't had is a very good OL, but that's not really "wasting" his prime, it was a failure to build a decent unit to protect him.
And for that, the GM was fired, and before him, TC was fired.
Everyone wants to make this about Eli, but really it is just a poor job at building a complete team.
Just pointing to the OL picks they made in a vacuum is silly Â
They spent quite a bit of FA money on the OL as well. It just didn't pan out.
It's worth pointing out, again, that the decline in the Giants OL went along with a league-wide decline in OL play. It just got harder to put together a good OL, and the Giants were affected more than most, in particular due to some early career ending injuries (to Snee, Baas, Beatty).
Doesn't take into account or even mention the #1 problem. Injuries. Â
The Giants ave been at or near the bottom of the league for injuries in 6 of the last 7 years I believe. The one year they were relatively healthy they went 11-5. This was a far bigger factor than draft picks, FAs or coaching.
is that it seems like the Giants willfully failed to build the team around Eli. They tried, it's that the draft picks and free agent signings by and large failed. It's incompetence but not malice.
You are right that the picks did not work out, but they also picked too few OL and waited too long, forcing the picks due to need....hence the bad picks.
The article says they used 7 of 56 picks on OL. That is about 12% of picks used on OL. Taking out QB, The team is comprised 24% (5/21) of OL players. We should have picked twice as many OL under Reese.
I don't disagree that Oline drafting was a key issue, I just didn't know there was math to support it...
But they only got one title out of Peyton Manning because of their failure to build any kind of defense other than Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis.
Don't forget, Bill Polian also won all those Super Bowls in Buffalo... well, went to at least.
My point isn't to kill Polian, but if 2 titles with Eli is "failing", then one title with arguably the greatest passer of all time is far worse of a crime. I view two championships as a smashing success and a hell of a career, but then again I may be in the minority of modern sports fans who seem to look at championships as a minimum standard of achievement rather than a rare accomplishment that makes you legendary.
is kind of harshed. I mean its not like they didnt try. Reese and company were just not very good. They took chances on guys like Rashad Jennings, Cruz's comeback, Geoff Schwartz's of OL lore. The drafting of OL was there - just not very good.
Listen, we can say what we want about Reese. He hit a few grand slams, but he went down swinging/looking WAY too many times in the draft. He failed to find anything after the 2nd round. He couldnt find depth. And his work on finding OL/LBs well was abysmal.
Eli is 37 and may not be in his prime. But it wouldnt shock me if we can have 2-3 more good years with him. Lets just hope for the best.
RE: the only issue I have with the tone of these posts Â
is that it seems like the Giants willfully failed to build the team around Eli. They tried, it's that the draft picks and free agent signings by and large failed. It's incompetence but not malice.
Reese drafted 1 OL player (Will Beatty, 2nd Round) with a premium pick until Pugh in ‘13. 7 years.
It may not rise to the level of malice, but it was clear Reese valued other positions and chose to build the roster around skill position players.
It wasn’t just failed draft picks and FA’s — it was neglect until he had no choice but to force picks at the position.
offense has been shit for a while now, but its hard for me to say that his prime was wasted. The Giants wom two Super Bowls in his prime, the last 4-5 years have definitely been wasted but every single lne kf us would have signed for 1 super bowl in Elis tenure, never mind two
is kind of harshed. I mean its not like they didnt try. Reese and company were just not very good. They took chances on guys like Rashad Jennings, Cruz's comeback, Geoff Schwartz's of OL lore. The drafting of OL was there - just not very good.
Listen, we can say what we want about Reese. He hit a few grand slams, but he went down swinging/looking WAY too many times in the draft. He failed to find anything after the 2nd round. He couldnt find depth. And his work on finding OL/LBs well was abysmal.
Eli is 37 and may not be in his prime. But it wouldnt shock me if we can have 2-3 more good years with him. Lets just hope for the best.
It wouldn't shock you if Eli has 2-3 more good years??
I would hope not as you completely support the idea that Eli absolutely has good years left, he needs more pieces around him and that was the best strategy to pursue this offseason.
is on a sharp decline, but it wouldn't shock me if he had 2-3 years left. Physically, he hasn't lost much. Mentally, he's still great at reading defenses and knowing where to throw the ball. The issue is that he sort of plays scared at this point in his career, IMO. Can that reverse back to the badass he was when he was younger? Doubtful, but I guess it can.
RE: RE: RE: Also, people here swear by Bill Polian's opinion Â
But they only got one title out of Peyton Manning because of their failure to build any kind of defense other than Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis.
Don't forget, Bill Polian also won all those Super Bowls in Buffalo... well, went to at least.
My point isn't to kill Polian, but if 2 titles with Eli is "failing", then one title with arguably the greatest passer of all time is far worse of a crime. I view two championships as a smashing success and a hell of a career, but then again I may be in the minority of modern sports fans who seem to look at championships as a minimum standard of achievement rather than a rare accomplishment that makes you legendary.
No, I agree, was just supporting your point. Polian had two HoF passers for a combined *24 years* - and had exactly 1 SB trophy to show for it.
is kind of harshed. I mean its not like they didnt try. Reese and company were just not very good. They took chances on guys like Rashad Jennings, Cruz's comeback, Geoff Schwartz's of OL lore. The drafting of OL was there - just not very good.
Listen, we can say what we want about Reese. He hit a few grand slams, but he went down swinging/looking WAY too many times in the draft. He failed to find anything after the 2nd round. He couldnt find depth. And his work on finding OL/LBs well was abysmal.
Eli is 37 and may not be in his prime. But it wouldnt shock me if we can have 2-3 more good years with him. Lets just hope for the best.
It wouldn't shock you if Eli has 2-3 more good years??
I would hope not as you completely support the idea that Eli absolutely has good years left, he needs more pieces around him and that was the best strategy to pursue this offseason.
Are there two of you?
Huh?
You may have me confused with someone else. I had made it quite known I wanted them to draft Darnold or Rosen this year. I wanted a QB badly. I figured Eli would get 1 more year and the successor would take over next year unless we pulled one out of the rabbit's hat.
I also stated that if we drafted a rookie, he should play as soon as we were eliminated from the playoffs.
The other stuff you said is something I absolutely did not say. I am a huge Eli fan, but I have made it known all offseason that it was best for them to find a successor.
Think you dropped the ball on this one Googs, no offense.
is on a sharp decline, but it wouldn't shock me if he had 2-3 years left. Physically, he hasn't lost much. Mentally, he's still great at reading defenses and knowing where to throw the ball. The issue is that he sort of plays scared at this point in his career, IMO. Can that reverse back to the badass he was when he was younger? Doubtful, but I guess it can.
If that were actually true (the "scared" part), doesn't that feed into the overall thesis of the piece. Being "scared" would be 100% a function of mismanagement in building on offensive line.
is on a sharp decline, but it wouldn't shock me if he had 2-3 years left. Physically, he hasn't lost much. Mentally, he's still great at reading defenses and knowing where to throw the ball. The issue is that he sort of plays scared at this point in his career, IMO. Can that reverse back to the badass he was when he was younger? Doubtful, but I guess it can.
I think with our weapons and a better coach, I just think everything is going to go smoother. Eli will still make a lot of throws with his usual WTF throws. I think this is a big year for him mentally. The consensus is he is shell shocked or has happy feet. If he continues to have them, he wont have an excuse. If he plays well, then all the better for us.
Considering the guys who architected the team were fired. They were horrible in drafting Oline, that we can agree. But I don't buy into the poor Eli narrative. In 2011 he had great weapons in passing game and Bradshaw. 2012 he still had a lot of the SB team core but injuries settling in. By 2013 there was garbage talent there, but I will not give him a complete pass --some things were on Eli too. As bad as the talent was, I feel this was Eli's worst year as a pro.
2014, things were still bad, but he also had Odell who was amazing and covered up a lot of the crap and I would say 2014 and 2015 were good years for him and the offense. It was McAdoo's system, but we forget that things worked well at this time. INTs were down, yardage was up, TDs were up, and Odell opened up things for the rest of the offense. The line was not good but the offense was designed for short throws and the ball coming out quick. What was wasted here is the defense. To say things were wasted for Eli in those years because McAdoo's scheme is revisionist history. The offense was good and Eli was playing at a probowl level.
In these years the team was investing in offense. In every year from 2012 - 2017 the Giants used their 1st round pick on Offense except 2016 where they did use a 2nd on Shepard. In 2012 and 2014 they used both a first and 2nd pick on O. 2013 and 2015 they used their top pick on an OT with 2015 being a top 10 choice. Yes, Flowers wasn't good, but if you recall, he was not planned to be thrown in the fire at OLT - they had Beatty who occupied OLT during 2011 SB and Flowers was going to ease into the position after getting work in on the Right.
2016 and 2017 I am not going to get into extensively. The Oline was severely challenged and teams had figured out how to mitigate Odell and McAdoo was horrible. That said, the Defense was great in 2016 and carried the team to playoffs. Expectations were super high heading into the seasons a year ago and just about everyone had this perspective. Despite how bad things were, I do not give Eli a full pass for those years. They were not his best years. It seems to me Eli's confidence was shaken.
That said, I think we are going to see an energized Eli this season. It is not all about the new talent or play calling either. The faith this group has put in him is already showing signs of paying off. Eli could be in position for one of his best seasons as a pro.
No matter how you spin it, I have a hard time claiming we "wasted" any part of a player who hoisted two Lombardi's here. One of which when he was at his absolute best as a pro.
How many more SB's should we have won? We have to be at least a little realistic.
If the argument is that we put a lot of crappy teams around him over the last 5 seasons or so, I'd agree with that.
Saying we "wasted" Eli's prime really doesn't make sense to me. We won a Super Bowl while he was right in the midst of it. How many other QB's that have come and gone in this league can say that? It's not exactly common or expected.
I think the 'wasted prime' argument has less to do with SBs Â
and more to do with the overall competitiveness of the team during Eli's tenure.
The truth is the team missed the playoffs far too often for a team that had a franchise QB at the helm. I don't think that's easily written off onto Reese. There were times the talent was there and the results weren't. Then there were times that the talent wasn't at the level it should have been.
I don't think Eli deserves a full pass either - he had plenty of games (if not entire stretches) where he just didn't play as well as he could have.
What it seems like in hindsight was a team that suffered through an abnormally high number of injuries also had a QB who could be inconsistent at times, and a front office that was at odds with itself (Reese and TC). Combine it all, and you had an underperforming team for large stretches during that run.
Ask Dan Marino. Getting a team to a SB is no easy feet. He won everyone he was in and against the GOAT. I’d say he’s been a very fortunate man. I’m a fan but I’m also very happy with what he has been able to do. He’s not finished yet either.
No matter how you spin it, I have a hard time claiming we "wasted" any part of a player who hoisted two Lombardi's here. One of which when he was at his absolute best as a pro.
How many more SB's should we have won? We have to be at least a little realistic.
If the argument is that we put a lot of crappy teams around him over the last 5 seasons or so, I'd agree with that.
Saying we "wasted" Eli's prime really doesn't make sense to me. We won a Super Bowl while he was right in the midst of it. How many other QB's that have come and gone in this league can say that? It's not exactly common or expected.
Agreed. And if not for some bad luck (and some dumb luck) in 2008, they probably would have won a 3rd.
Also, many of those bad teams were devastated with injuries. Nicks and Cruz careers were way too short. Defense always seemed to get hit hard with injuries. The talent was not good but injuries made things even worse.
No matter how you spin it, I have a hard time claiming we "wasted" any part of a player who hoisted two Lombardi's here. One of which when he was at his absolute best as a pro.
How many more SB's should we have won? We have to be at least a little realistic.
If the argument is that we put a lot of crappy teams around him over the last 5 seasons or so, I'd agree with that.
Saying we "wasted" Eli's prime really doesn't make sense to me. We won a Super Bowl while he was right in the midst of it. How many other QB's that have come and gone in this league can say that? It's not exactly common or expected.
Agreed. And if not for some bad luck (and some dumb luck) in 2008, they probably would have won a 3rd.
Also, many of those bad teams were devastated with injuries. Nicks and Cruz careers were way too short. Defense always seemed to get hit hard with injuries. The talent was not good but injuries made things even worse.
Yep.. just look at our own division, too... since Eli became a full time starter.
2005: NYG
2006: PHI
2007: DAL
2008: NYG
2009: DAL
2010: PHI
2011: NYG
2012: WSH
2013: PHI
2014: DAL
2015: WSH
2016: DAL
2017: PHI
Our division has been a carousel his entire career. Not a single back to back division champion in 13 years, which I think speaks to the parity in the NFL a great deal.
So, its not just the Giants.
Many management decisions are based on, or result from financial Â
considerations which neither players, nor fans, nor media are in a position to know about, or make valid comments on.
HOWEVER, just because we don't know the specific reasons for the decisions that have been made, it is still fair for fans to conclude that a series of losing years is the result of bad decision-making by the owners/managers of the team.
Furthermore, I have absolutely no obligation to tell the Giants what it SHOULD have done in order not to stink, but I have every right to point out that they DO stink. It is THEIR fault not MINE that they stink, and they have brass balls for asking the same ticket prices for a 3-13 club as for a 11-5 club.
“I can only talk toward history,” Tuck said. “History tells me that every time Eli has been doubted, every time he has been put in situations like this, not only has he responded but the team has responded around him. That’s what I’m hoping for this season.”
“I can only talk toward history,” Tuck said. “History tells me that every time Eli has been doubted, every time he has been put in situations like this, not only has he responded but the team has responded around him. That’s what I’m hoping for this season.”
The true failure occurred at the top. John Mara either not realizing that Reese needed to go OR delaying the decision to move onto another GM for whatever reason (loyalty, false hope, etc).
this
their high ol draft picks failed or etc..not like they didnt try to address the Ol..just bad talent evaluation, injury, or etc
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is that it seems like the Giants willfully failed to build the team around Eli. They tried, it's that the draft picks and free agent signings by and large failed. It's incompetence but not malice.
The true failure occurred at the top. John Mara either not realizing that Reese needed to go OR delaying the decision to move onto another GM for whatever reason (loyalty, false hope, etc).
Well, ain't that a kick in the head. I bet that NEVER happened before in the history of the NFL.
Eli should go ask his Dad if he can recall that ever happening just to be sure...
I have been posting this on BBI since 2013 that Reese ruined Eli's best years. Got a lot of criticism for that. Interesting how the view changes now that guys like Tuck and O'Hara agree.
100% in agreement!! Why wasn't this talked by these guys WHILE Reese was here?
Quote:
is that it seems like the Giants willfully failed to build the team around Eli. They tried, it's that the draft picks and free agent signings by and large failed. It's incompetence but not malice.
The true failure occurred at the top. John Mara either not realizing that Reese needed to go OR delaying the decision to move onto another GM for whatever reason (loyalty, false hope, etc).
The Giants had a loyalty storm on their hands - a HC and a GM who shared blame, and they didn't want to make a move on either until it was too late. Their loyalty and desire for continuity, in general not a bad thing, proved to be their downfall here.
You are right that the picks did not work out, but they also picked too few OL and waited too long, forcing the picks due to need....hence the bad picks.
The article says they used 7 of 56 picks on OL. That is about 12% of picks used on OL. Taking out QB, The team is comprised 24% (5/21) of OL players. We should have picked twice as many OL under Reese.
It isn't just because he sucks in a vacuum. He was beyond incompetent. On top of that, Eli did not fit his scheme AT ALL.
Hard to believe those 2 things were ignored, or not considered.
KG went to management in 2010 warning them that the OL and RBs were falling apart. You have to restock the cupboard BEFORE you run out of food.
I have been posting this on BBI since 2013 that Reese ruined Eli's best years. Got a lot of criticism for that. Interesting how the view changes now that guys like Tuck and O'Hara agree.
It's a circular argument. Fine if you want to pat yourself on the back for having the opinion that Reese didn't do enough, but they won it all twice, in no small part to drafts and free agency moves that Reese presided over.
"Reese wasted Eli's prime years" is a NY Post quality headline. Some of the greatest players of all time never even got to a super bowl much less won two. Winning championships is supposed to be hard, not a thing that anyone can do if you just try and want to.
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Did they wait to now to express this belief?
100% in agreement!! Why wasn't this talked by these guys WHILE Reese was here?
So the scouting and the drafting would have improved if O'Hara and Tuck spoke up sooner?
Eli has had some excellent WR's to throw to. What he hasn't had is a very good OL, but that's not really "wasting" his prime, it was a failure to build a decent unit to protect him.
And for that, the GM was fired, and before him, TC was fired.
Everyone wants to make this about Eli, but really it is just a poor job at building a complete team.
It's worth pointing out, again, that the decline in the Giants OL went along with a league-wide decline in OL play. It just got harder to put together a good OL, and the Giants were affected more than most, in particular due to some early career ending injuries (to Snee, Baas, Beatty).
They won 2 Super Bowls in Eli's prime?
They won 2 Super Bowls in Eli's prime?
Yeah, this too.
If the Giants have wasted Eli's prime imagine what the Chargers have done to Rivers.
Don't forget, Bill Polian also won all those Super Bowls in Buffalo... well, went to at least.
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is that it seems like the Giants willfully failed to build the team around Eli. They tried, it's that the draft picks and free agent signings by and large failed. It's incompetence but not malice.
You are right that the picks did not work out, but they also picked too few OL and waited too long, forcing the picks due to need....hence the bad picks.
The article says they used 7 of 56 picks on OL. That is about 12% of picks used on OL. Taking out QB, The team is comprised 24% (5/21) of OL players. We should have picked twice as many OL under Reese.
I don't disagree that Oline drafting was a key issue, I just didn't know there was math to support it...
It isn't just because he sucks in a vacuum. He was beyond incompetent. On top of that, Eli did not fit his scheme AT ALL.
Hard to believe those 2 things were ignored, or not considered.
The team wasn't exactly kicking ass before McAdoo was brought in...
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But they only got one title out of Peyton Manning because of their failure to build any kind of defense other than Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis.
Don't forget, Bill Polian also won all those Super Bowls in Buffalo... well, went to at least.
My point isn't to kill Polian, but if 2 titles with Eli is "failing", then one title with arguably the greatest passer of all time is far worse of a crime. I view two championships as a smashing success and a hell of a career, but then again I may be in the minority of modern sports fans who seem to look at championships as a minimum standard of achievement rather than a rare accomplishment that makes you legendary.
Listen, we can say what we want about Reese. He hit a few grand slams, but he went down swinging/looking WAY too many times in the draft. He failed to find anything after the 2nd round. He couldnt find depth. And his work on finding OL/LBs well was abysmal.
Eli is 37 and may not be in his prime. But it wouldnt shock me if we can have 2-3 more good years with him. Lets just hope for the best.
Reese drafted 1 OL player (Will Beatty, 2nd Round) with a premium pick until Pugh in ‘13. 7 years.
It may not rise to the level of malice, but it was clear Reese valued other positions and chose to build the roster around skill position players.
It wasn’t just failed draft picks and FA’s — it was neglect until he had no choice but to force picks at the position.
Listen, we can say what we want about Reese. He hit a few grand slams, but he went down swinging/looking WAY too many times in the draft. He failed to find anything after the 2nd round. He couldnt find depth. And his work on finding OL/LBs well was abysmal.
Eli is 37 and may not be in his prime. But it wouldnt shock me if we can have 2-3 more good years with him. Lets just hope for the best.
It wouldn't shock you if Eli has 2-3 more good years??
I would hope not as you completely support the idea that Eli absolutely has good years left, he needs more pieces around him and that was the best strategy to pursue this offseason.
Are there two of you?
Quote:
In comment 13988384 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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But they only got one title out of Peyton Manning because of their failure to build any kind of defense other than Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis.
Don't forget, Bill Polian also won all those Super Bowls in Buffalo... well, went to at least.
My point isn't to kill Polian, but if 2 titles with Eli is "failing", then one title with arguably the greatest passer of all time is far worse of a crime. I view two championships as a smashing success and a hell of a career, but then again I may be in the minority of modern sports fans who seem to look at championships as a minimum standard of achievement rather than a rare accomplishment that makes you legendary.
No, I agree, was just supporting your point. Polian had two HoF passers for a combined *24 years* - and had exactly 1 SB trophy to show for it.
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is kind of harshed. I mean its not like they didnt try. Reese and company were just not very good. They took chances on guys like Rashad Jennings, Cruz's comeback, Geoff Schwartz's of OL lore. The drafting of OL was there - just not very good.
Listen, we can say what we want about Reese. He hit a few grand slams, but he went down swinging/looking WAY too many times in the draft. He failed to find anything after the 2nd round. He couldnt find depth. And his work on finding OL/LBs well was abysmal.
Eli is 37 and may not be in his prime. But it wouldnt shock me if we can have 2-3 more good years with him. Lets just hope for the best.
It wouldn't shock you if Eli has 2-3 more good years??
I would hope not as you completely support the idea that Eli absolutely has good years left, he needs more pieces around him and that was the best strategy to pursue this offseason.
Are there two of you?
Huh?
You may have me confused with someone else. I had made it quite known I wanted them to draft Darnold or Rosen this year. I wanted a QB badly. I figured Eli would get 1 more year and the successor would take over next year unless we pulled one out of the rabbit's hat.
I also stated that if we drafted a rookie, he should play as soon as we were eliminated from the playoffs.
The other stuff you said is something I absolutely did not say. I am a huge Eli fan, but I have made it known all offseason that it was best for them to find a successor.
Think you dropped the ball on this one Googs, no offense.
I think with our weapons and a better coach, I just think everything is going to go smoother. Eli will still make a lot of throws with his usual WTF throws. I think this is a big year for him mentally. The consensus is he is shell shocked or has happy feet. If he continues to have them, he wont have an excuse. If he plays well, then all the better for us.
Not a problem. Even his most ardent supporters can be rational at times.... haha
2014, things were still bad, but he also had Odell who was amazing and covered up a lot of the crap and I would say 2014 and 2015 were good years for him and the offense. It was McAdoo's system, but we forget that things worked well at this time. INTs were down, yardage was up, TDs were up, and Odell opened up things for the rest of the offense. The line was not good but the offense was designed for short throws and the ball coming out quick. What was wasted here is the defense. To say things were wasted for Eli in those years because McAdoo's scheme is revisionist history. The offense was good and Eli was playing at a probowl level.
In these years the team was investing in offense. In every year from 2012 - 2017 the Giants used their 1st round pick on Offense except 2016 where they did use a 2nd on Shepard. In 2012 and 2014 they used both a first and 2nd pick on O. 2013 and 2015 they used their top pick on an OT with 2015 being a top 10 choice. Yes, Flowers wasn't good, but if you recall, he was not planned to be thrown in the fire at OLT - they had Beatty who occupied OLT during 2011 SB and Flowers was going to ease into the position after getting work in on the Right.
2016 and 2017 I am not going to get into extensively. The Oline was severely challenged and teams had figured out how to mitigate Odell and McAdoo was horrible. That said, the Defense was great in 2016 and carried the team to playoffs. Expectations were super high heading into the seasons a year ago and just about everyone had this perspective. Despite how bad things were, I do not give Eli a full pass for those years. They were not his best years. It seems to me Eli's confidence was shaken.
That said, I think we are going to see an energized Eli this season. It is not all about the new talent or play calling either. The faith this group has put in him is already showing signs of paying off. Eli could be in position for one of his best seasons as a pro.
How many more SB's should we have won? We have to be at least a little realistic.
If the argument is that we put a lot of crappy teams around him over the last 5 seasons or so, I'd agree with that.
Saying we "wasted" Eli's prime really doesn't make sense to me. We won a Super Bowl while he was right in the midst of it. How many other QB's that have come and gone in this league can say that? It's not exactly common or expected.
The truth is the team missed the playoffs far too often for a team that had a franchise QB at the helm. I don't think that's easily written off onto Reese. There were times the talent was there and the results weren't. Then there were times that the talent wasn't at the level it should have been.
I don't think Eli deserves a full pass either - he had plenty of games (if not entire stretches) where he just didn't play as well as he could have.
What it seems like in hindsight was a team that suffered through an abnormally high number of injuries also had a QB who could be inconsistent at times, and a front office that was at odds with itself (Reese and TC). Combine it all, and you had an underperforming team for large stretches during that run.
How many more SB's should we have won? We have to be at least a little realistic.
If the argument is that we put a lot of crappy teams around him over the last 5 seasons or so, I'd agree with that.
Saying we "wasted" Eli's prime really doesn't make sense to me. We won a Super Bowl while he was right in the midst of it. How many other QB's that have come and gone in this league can say that? It's not exactly common or expected.
Also, many of those bad teams were devastated with injuries. Nicks and Cruz careers were way too short. Defense always seemed to get hit hard with injuries. The talent was not good but injuries made things even worse.
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No matter how you spin it, I have a hard time claiming we "wasted" any part of a player who hoisted two Lombardi's here. One of which when he was at his absolute best as a pro.
How many more SB's should we have won? We have to be at least a little realistic.
If the argument is that we put a lot of crappy teams around him over the last 5 seasons or so, I'd agree with that.
Saying we "wasted" Eli's prime really doesn't make sense to me. We won a Super Bowl while he was right in the midst of it. How many other QB's that have come and gone in this league can say that? It's not exactly common or expected.
Agreed. And if not for some bad luck (and some dumb luck) in 2008, they probably would have won a 3rd.
Also, many of those bad teams were devastated with injuries. Nicks and Cruz careers were way too short. Defense always seemed to get hit hard with injuries. The talent was not good but injuries made things even worse.
Yep.. just look at our own division, too... since Eli became a full time starter.
2005: NYG
2006: PHI
2007: DAL
2008: NYG
2009: DAL
2010: PHI
2011: NYG
2012: WSH
2013: PHI
2014: DAL
2015: WSH
2016: DAL
2017: PHI
Our division has been a carousel his entire career. Not a single back to back division champion in 13 years, which I think speaks to the parity in the NFL a great deal.
So, its not just the Giants.
HOWEVER, just because we don't know the specific reasons for the decisions that have been made, it is still fair for fans to conclude that a series of losing years is the result of bad decision-making by the owners/managers of the team.
Furthermore, I have absolutely no obligation to tell the Giants what it SHOULD have done in order not to stink, but I have every right to point out that they DO stink. It is THEIR fault not MINE that they stink, and they have brass balls for asking the same ticket prices for a 3-13 club as for a 11-5 club.