Couldn't agree more with these guys. It's pissed me off year after year, the Giants' inability to field an offense that even remotely suited Eli's strengths. Link - ( New Window )
Why this always seems to be adjective used as it pertains to ‘07 and ‘11 I’ll never understand. aside from the occasional wall to wall dominant team, this parity, that has effectively existed since Plan B ended, lends itself to many Wild card entrants winning it all or making a lot of noise. So, most endings in this watered down league oft times results in magical runs, imv
It's used for those two Giants teams because it's the truth. 10-6 & 9-7. The 2011 team was actually outscored during the regular season.
As it should be for many other magical runs since Plan B. Of course it was magical, but referring to our magical runs as implicitly meaning it JUST HAPPENED TO US AND US ALONE is kinda disingenous, imo..
Also, our final records for the aforementioned SB years Â
Only 9-7 team to ever win the title. Only team to have been outscored during the regular season to ever win the title. I'm going to guess they're the only champ to have conceded 400+ points during the season, too.
No one is saying the title doesn't count. But if we're talking about how to build a team and the quality of the management, 2007 and especially 2011 are not examples to follow. The 2011 team is by every metric the worst ever Super Bowl champ by some distance.
The Giants have won 12+ games 3 times in 28 years.
Eli on Shaun O’Hara’s comments from the weekend that the Giants wasted Eli’s prime: “I don’t look at it that way. I appreciate everything the Giants have done and I’m excited about being there this year and taking advantage of this year.”
Quote:
On the support he got from O’Hara and Justin Tuck: “They’re teammates and I won championships with both of them so I think those guys are always loyal, but that’s not the way I look at it. I still think I have some peak years left, so we can make it right.”
Only 9-7 team to ever win the title. Only team to have been outscored during the regular season to ever win the title. I'm going to guess they're the only champ to have conceded 400+ points during the season, too.
No one is saying the title doesn't count. But if we're talking about how to build a team and the quality of the management, 2007 and especially 2011 are not examples to follow. The 2011 team is by every metric the worst ever Super Bowl champ by some distance.
The Giants have won 12+ games 3 times in 28 years.
Technically yes, but for a controversial TD call in SB XLIII, the 9-7 Cards would have been world champs..
No one is saying the title doesn't count. But if we're talking about how to build a team and the quality of the management, 2007 and especially 2011 are not examples to follow. The 2011 team is by every metric the worst ever Super Bowl champ by some distance.
The Giants have won 12+ games 3 times in 28 years.
That 2011 team may be the worst team to ever win a championship in all of our professional team sports. Maybe the 2006 St Louis Cardinals are in that debate...
I not only agree with these Giant legends, but I’ll go on record saying, Eli will prove them right this season. There have been knowledgeable fans yelling for offensive line help here for years. Every team has holes. Does Eli need a better line then Russell Wilson? That’s not even a question.
I saw the shell shocked, ducking Eli that you saw last year. That will end. Eli’s typical Sunday, 2nd half, Down 14, sacked 6 times, wacked on the last two plays, And a free 300lb linemen bearing down on you. And did I forget to say your coach benched you for Geno Smith? Who wouldn’t duck?
Three new offensive Linemen and Barkley. Ducking, skittish Eli is a thing of the past. Get ready for the resurrection.
RE: RE: The 2011 team is an exception in many ways Â
No one is saying the title doesn't count. But if we're talking about how to build a team and the quality of the management, 2007 and especially 2011 are not examples to follow. The 2011 team is by every metric the worst ever Super Bowl champ by some distance.
The Giants have won 12+ games 3 times in 28 years.
That 2011 team may be the worst team to ever win a championship in all of our professional team sports. Maybe the 2006 St Louis Cardinals are in that debate...
I HATE that talking point. What does it say about the other teams that competed for the championship that season? Would they too have been the "worst teams to ever win a championship" considering how much trouble they had with the Giants during the regular season in 2011? The Giants beat the best team in the AFC (Patriots) on their homefield that year. The Giants lost to the Packers (#1 seed in NFC) on a FG as time expired during the regular season. They lost to the 49ers (#2 seed in NFC) by 7 points in San Francisco, yet had the ball inside the 10 yard-line with a chance to tie in the final minute of the game.
RE: RE: The 2011 team is an exception in many ways Â
No one is saying the title doesn't count. But if we're talking about how to build a team and the quality of the management, 2007 and especially 2011 are not examples to follow. The 2011 team is by every metric the worst ever Super Bowl champ by some distance.
The Giants have won 12+ games 3 times in 28 years.
That 2011 team may be the worst team to ever win a championship in all of our professional team sports.
I don't agree with that. Sure, they weren't a juggernaut, but they had players on offense that any team would've coveted. Nicks and Cruz were exceptional players. The Giants haven't fielded a pair of players on offense like that since their short-lived run. And on the other side, JPP had a year that put him in DPOY conversation. Yeah, the offensive line was patchwork and they couldn't run the ball well, but that team was a good mix of outstanding young players and enough veterans to get by.
The 2011 team had a lot of guys banged up during the year. Things really didn't come together until everyone got on the field for the Championship run.
The team that navigated through those playoffs was quite good. So this whole "worst team to ever win a title" nonsense is nothing other than gross hyperbole. Give me a break.
The Giants beat a 15-1 Packers team on the road, a 49ers team with an absolutely punishing defense in absolute slop, and capped it off by beating Belichick and Brady in the Super Bowl.. for a second time.
The 2011 team was wildly inconsistent during the course of that season, but once they were firing on all cylinders, they played really, really well. They earned that trophy.
But admitting that means you have to give credit to Eli, and we all know how much "bee dubs" simply refuses to do so...
Every team that's won it, earned it. It's just that of all the teams that have won it, the 2011 Giants are the worst. I wouldn't point to that team and say, "That right there is an example of how a team should be built." It's a more than fair statement to make in the context of a conversation about how management has performed during Eli Manning's career.
they really had put it all together, from a team perspective, come playoff time.
The Offense, Defense and Specials had their ups and downs during those regular seasons, but all 3 units really were firing on all cylinders during the playoffs. All contributing at key points in those games...which is why they didn't lose any I guess.
And, of course, Eli was special in both playoff runs as been mentioned countless times...
He was great that season. And once the D stepped up their game, we were going to be a tough out. People forget, but that team started out 6-2 & beat the Pats in Foxboro in early November. That was a worthy champion.
That 2011 team may be the worst team to ever win a championship in all of our professional team sports.
I don't agree with that. Sure, they weren't a juggernaut, but they had players on offense that any team would've coveted. Nicks and Cruz were exceptional players. The Giants haven't fielded a pair of players on offense like that since their short-lived run. And on the other side, JPP had a year that put him in DPOY conversation. Yeah, the offensive line was patchwork and they couldn't run the ball well, but that team was a good mix of outstanding young players and enough veterans to get by.
The NBA, MLB, NHL determine their winners via best of series; so that format rarely, if ever, produces a winner out of nowhere.
So that leaves the NFL. I suggest you go through the list of 52 SB winners and find a team that the ‘11 Giants would be a favorite or match up better talent wise.
I came down to the ‘82 Skins, ‘00 Ravens, ‘02 Bucs, ‘12 Ravens, and the ‘15 Broncos. All of those teams had shakier QB play than Eli.
Theisman was a classic game manager and that team sort of got fortunate by short season because the strike. Hard to gauge this team from a historical perspective. Take them off.
Dilfer was a mistake constantly waiting to happen, but he was the beneficiary of a historic defense. They would have destroyed us 6-3. ; )
The ‘02 Bucs may be a reach by me because they did have some balance and that defense was historic, too. Plus, they had a 12-4 regular season. However, like both Eli led SB winners, their offense finally clicked in the post season. And they got fortunate by playing the Raiders in the SB. But that it’s hard to think Eli could make much of a dent on that defense.
The ‘12 Ravens were led by a QB similar to Eli, but, in my judgement, worse. But like Eli, Flacco got scorching hot in the playoffs and pulled a rabbit out of the hat to beat the Broncos in the divisional round. They had a terrific defense, but were only 10-6 in the regular season and got in as a wildcard. And one of those wins was one of the luckiest in history when they converted a 4th and 30 on a bullish-t screen to Ray Rice where the Chargers played dead. You need to watch that if you didn’t see it.
I threw in the ‘15 Broncos because Peyton was so poor that year. He hit the wall. But again, like many of the others, they had a historic defense that just strangled the opposition.
In my judgment, those are the teams the ‘11 Giants are up against as the most unimpressive SB winner ever. The biggest advantage our team has, on paper, seems to be Eli. However, those teams had stellar defenses and that likely gives them the edge...except, maybe, the ‘12 Ravens because they are very similar to that Giant team with a season that had everything fall into place at the right time...
So the point remains. That ‘11 team was not a stellar team at all. And it’s hard to call them anything but a fortunate team that just got hot at the right time...
I think some of you can't really describe the difference between Â
"shell shocked" "happy feet" and justifiably speeding up the internal play clock because your line is the worst its been your entire career and has little consistency from drive to drive. The former is some incurable disease that Eli somehow contracted and the latter is simply playing in a shit situation. I tend to think its simply the latter.
When I think of wasted primes/careers I think Marino and B. Sanders Â
Even Aaron Rodgers, who is twice the QB Eli is with half the number of rings.
I love Eli. He’s an all-time Giant great and possible HOFer but he’s got 2 rings. And he was a top 5 QB for only a few years in his career, at most. Arguably, just once.
Let’s be happier about things.
RE: RE: The 2011 team is an exception in many ways Â
No one is saying the title doesn't count. But if we're talking about how to build a team and the quality of the management, 2007 and especially 2011 are not examples to follow. The 2011 team is by every metric the worst ever Super Bowl champ by some distance.
The Giants have won 12+ games 3 times in 28 years.
That 2011 team may be the worst team to ever win a championship in all of our professional team sports. Maybe the 2006 St Louis Cardinals are in that debate...
Holy shit if there was any doubt you are a very dim bulb it has been cemented on this thread...
RE: RE: RE: RE: The 2011 team is an exception in many ways Â
So the point remains. That ‘11 team was not a stellar team at all. And it’s hard to call them anything but a fortunate team that just got hot at the right time...
I'm perfectly in agreement with you that they weren't some great team. You're right that given the format of the NFL, you're going to get less than ideal champions. I just don't agree whatsoever that they're one of the worst championship teams of all time. They beat the patriots when coming into that game the whole story was that it was about revenge for 2007 and how could Brady possibly lose again.
You can't be one of the worst champions of all time when you have some star players who played like stars and you beat competition of that class, as well as the teams they beat on the playoff road to the championship.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The 2011 team is an exception in many ways Â
That 2011 team may be the worst team to ever win a championship in all of our professional team sports.
I don't agree with that. Sure, they weren't a juggernaut, but they had players on offense that any team would've coveted. Nicks and Cruz were exceptional players. The Giants haven't fielded a pair of players on offense like that since their short-lived run. And on the other side, JPP had a year that put him in DPOY conversation. Yeah, the offensive line was patchwork and they couldn't run the ball well, but that team was a good mix of outstanding young players and enough veterans to get by.
The NBA, MLB, NHL determine their winners via best of series; so that format rarely, if ever, produces a winner out of nowhere.
So that leaves the NFL. I suggest you go through the list of 52 SB winners and find a team that the ‘11 Giants would be a favorite or match up better talent wise.
I came down to the ‘82 Skins, ‘00 Ravens, ‘02 Bucs, ‘12 Ravens, and the ‘15 Broncos. All of those teams had shakier QB play than Eli.
Theisman was a classic game manager and that team sort of got fortunate by short season because the strike. Hard to gauge this team from a historical perspective. Take them off.
Dilfer was a mistake constantly waiting to happen, but he was the beneficiary of a historic defense. They would have destroyed us 6-3. ; )
The ‘02 Bucs may be a reach by me because they did have some balance and that defense was historic, too. Plus, they had a 12-4 regular season. However, like both Eli led SB winners, their offense finally clicked in the post season. And they got fortunate by playing the Raiders in the SB. But that it’s hard to think Eli could make much of a dent on that defense.
The ‘12 Ravens were led by a QB similar to Eli, but, in my judgement, worse. But like Eli, Flacco got scorching hot in the playoffs and pulled a rabbit out of the hat to beat the Broncos in the divisional round. They had a terrific defense, but were only 10-6 in the regular season and got in as a wildcard. And one of those wins was one of the luckiest in history when they converted a 4th and 30 on a bullish-t screen to Ray Rice where the Chargers played dead. You need to watch that if you didn’t see it.
I threw in the ‘15 Broncos because Peyton was so poor that year. He hit the wall. But again, like many of the others, they had a historic defense that just strangled the opposition.
In my judgment, those are the teams the ‘11 Giants are up against as the most unimpressive SB winner ever. The biggest advantage our team has, on paper, seems to be Eli. However, those teams had stellar defenses and that likely gives them the edge...except, maybe, the ‘12 Ravens because they are very similar to that Giant team with a season that had everything fall into place at the right time...
So the point remains. That ‘11 team was not a stellar team at all. And it’s hard to call them anything but a fortunate team that just got hot at the right time...
Lol, nominee for worst post of all time in BBI History. What a beauty this is. There are so many things to look at but I don’t know where to start!
"shell shocked" "happy feet" and justifiably speeding up the internal play clock because your line is the worst its been your entire career and has little consistency from drive to drive. The former is some incurable disease that Eli somehow contracted and the latter is simply playing in a shit situation. I tend to think its simply the latter.
I have zero doubts, with his present arsenal, that Eli, still healthy with a strong arm, can be clutch Eli again, EXCEPT for the POSSIBILITY of PTSD, through little fault of his own. I hope your “latter” is the correct one. If it is, just watch..
Your perspective on 2011, a stunning post season along with a premiere regular-season performance by Eli (on paper? really? did you watch those games?), sounds like sour grapes from a fan of another team.
bw is a poster who continually uses the term "Jints Central" to mock the way the team is run. He's probably a Redskins fan as you cannot make this up, but he used to praise Dan Snyder's way of running the team. I believe he thinks "Jints Central" was too stodgy to win anything, and he's even doubled down on that term in this thread.
It is hard to take somebody serious who spends so much time tearing down ownership.
By the way, when it comes down to comparing SB winners, which is a useless exercise, most of the early SB teams were far less powerful. Some of the Dolphin and Raiders teams that won were less than impressive, as were the Colts. We romanticize a lot of them for the early success in the league, but even the miracle Jets team wasn't all that great.
So the point remains. That ‘11 team was not a stellar team at all. And it’s hard to call them anything but a fortunate team that just got hot at the right time...
By the way, when it comes down to comparing SB winners, which is a useless exercise, most of the early SB teams were far less powerful. Some of the Dolphin and Raiders teams that won were less than impressive, as were the Colts. We romanticize a lot of them for the early success in the league, but even the miracle Jets team wasn't all that great.
Agreed. I would throw in the recent winners as well. There are no real powerhouses. A Foles led Philly team, a flawed NE team that should have lost to an unremarkable Atlanta team, a lopsided Broncos team. You can quibble here or there, but are any of these teams really on a different level than the '11 team? They may have had better regular seasons, but once that team got healthy and came together I certainly don't agree. Their path to and through the SB I would suggest they beat more than one team arguably better than any of the three I've listed.
You’re wasting your time with my offline buddy, bw. Â
What is Ohara and Tuck smoking? If any team wasted their qb's prime years is the Packers. Bad defense for a long time, injuries to the oline...Dude play full season missing both starting tackles and still made playoffs and played great. No run game.
ARodgers played great when the Packers put an average product around him. That is wasting a qb's prime years
Eli has played bad and requires All Pro talent to function while making over 20 million a season
a player's prime years, you can point to tons of examples in the salary cap era.
You could say Indy wasted Peyton's prime by fielding a non-competitive D
You could say the same about Brees. Two years the Saints had the worst D in the league
You could say the Lions wasted Barry Sanders prime
You could say that the Vikings wasted AP's prime by never having a successful QB/WR combo to go with him
The list goes on and on.
What I know is Eli has 2 rings. The folly are fans who expected the team to have more. Romo has none on a team fans here usually marvel at the construct of. The Redskins have a long drought. We talk about Eli's prime being wasted as his contempories like Brees, Rodgers, Rivers and Ryan have less titles to show.
I've had plenty of good football conversations with bw since he's returned - but his perspective on the Giants really does baffle me. He talks about them like they're the most incompetent franchise in pro sports and the amount of dislike for Eli (not just now, when he's declining, but the entire body of work) is staggering.
What Eli is right now, in 2018, is absolutely up for debate.
What isn't up for debate is that we've been truly blessed to have this player for as long as we've had him and that he brought us two of the greatest moments in the entire history of this franchise.
I have no problem with people who think Eli is done, wanted to draft a QB, move on, etc - I didn't necessarily feel exactly the same way, but I get that.
How anyone could harbor dislike for Eli in general as a Giants fan at this point is just really difficult to understand. Doesn't sound like much of a Giants fan, really.
What isn't up for debate is that we've been truly blessed to have this player for as long as we've had him and that he brought us two of the greatest moments in the entire history of this franchise.
Correction: “...that he brought us two of the greatest moments in the entire history of sports.”
You do not have to dislike Eli to not be happy with his level Â
of play. Why does it have to be love or hate for a player. Eli will always be an iconic Giant for helping win 2 rings. But am not going to make excuses for him.
RE: You do not have to dislike Eli to not be happy with his level Â
of play. Why does it have to be love or hate for a player. Eli will always be an iconic Giant for helping win 2 rings. But am not going to make excuses for him.
So you believe he has had enough talent surrounding him the last 6 years to make a playoff/SB run?
RE: You do not have to dislike Eli to not be happy with his level Â
of play. Why does it have to be love or hate for a player. Eli will always be an iconic Giant for helping win 2 rings. But am not going to make excuses for him.
Not even sure who you're arguing with or what you're arguing.
No one is asking anyone to make excuses for him. The point is that he's been an all-time Giant and one of the most important players in the history of the franchise.
The poster I was referring to literally hates the guy. It baffles me.
RE: RE: You do not have to dislike Eli to not be happy with his level Â
of play. Why does it have to be love or hate for a player. Eli will always be an iconic Giant for helping win 2 rings. But am not going to make excuses for him.
Not even sure who you're arguing with or what you're arguing.
No one is asking anyone to make excuses for him. The point is that he's been an all-time Giant and one of the most important players in the history of the franchise.
The poster I was referring to literally hates the guy. It baffles me.
Well so does NYSports1..... so it could have applied to him.
I'm perfectly in agreement with you that they weren't some great team. You're right that given the format of the NFL, you're going to get less than ideal champions. I just don't agree whatsoever that they're one of the worst championship teams of all time. They beat the patriots when coming into that game the whole story was that it was about revenge for 2007 and how could Brady possibly lose again.
You can't be one of the worst champions of all time when you have some star players who played like stars and you beat competition of that class, as well as the teams they beat on the playoff road to the championship.
Well, this '11 team with these "star" players went 9-7 again the following year. Only they weren't so fortunate to back into the playoffs again. So they couldn't catch lightening in a bottle again.
However, I agree - to the victor goes the spoils. They took down some big teams. That is certainly worth applauding.
But stripped down, this was a team that just got hot at the right time. And really haven't/weren't able to duplicate anything remotely similar since. Think that speaks volumes...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The 2011 team is an exception in many ways Â
Your perspective on 2011, a stunning post season along with a premiere regular-season performance by Eli (on paper? really? did you watch those games?), sounds like sour grapes from a fan of another team.
A stunning post? Really? The team was 9-7.
"Premier regular season by Eli"? He had a decent rating of 93 but threw 16 INTs to 29TDs, less than 2:1 ratio. That's some definition of "premier"...
So the point remains. That ‘11 team was not a stellar team at all. And it’s hard to call them anything but a fortunate team that just got hot at the right time...
you are insufferable
It's always easier to drive in the right lane with the mainstream Giants fans and parrot what they say instead, right?
bw is a poster who continually uses the term "Jints Central" to mock the way the team is run. He's probably a Redskins fan as you cannot make this up, but he used to praise Dan Snyder's way of running the team. I believe he thinks "Jints Central" was too stodgy to win anything, and he's even doubled down on that term in this thread.
It is hard to take somebody serious who spends so much time tearing down ownership.
I would say it differently - I expose ownership.
I actually love Jints Central. They are sweet, old men trying their damnest to do things the "Giants Way". Whatever the hell that is...
is that we know Eli can go big game hunting as well as anyone. If we'd been more consistent just making the playoffs he could have gotten us some more big wins. Even in the 2016 playoffs he came out great in Green Bay before the wide receivers completely shit the bed.
But to make the playoffs only 5 times in 14 years in this mess of a division...
Quote:
Why this always seems to be adjective used as it pertains to ‘07 and ‘11 I’ll never understand. aside from the occasional wall to wall dominant team, this parity, that has effectively existed since Plan B ended, lends itself to many Wild card entrants winning it all or making a lot of noise. So, most endings in this watered down league oft times results in magical runs, imv
It's used for those two Giants teams because it's the truth. 10-6 & 9-7. The 2011 team was actually outscored during the regular season.
As it should be for many other magical runs since Plan B. Of course it was magical, but referring to our magical runs as implicitly meaning it JUST HAPPENED TO US AND US ALONE is kinda disingenous, imo..
No one is saying the title doesn't count. But if we're talking about how to build a team and the quality of the management, 2007 and especially 2011 are not examples to follow. The 2011 team is by every metric the worst ever Super Bowl champ by some distance.
The Giants have won 12+ games 3 times in 28 years.
No one is saying the title doesn't count. But if we're talking about how to build a team and the quality of the management, 2007 and especially 2011 are not examples to follow. The 2011 team is by every metric the worst ever Super Bowl champ by some distance.
The Giants have won 12+ games 3 times in 28 years.
Technically yes, but for a controversial TD call in SB XLIII, the 9-7 Cards would have been world champs..
No one is saying the title doesn't count. But if we're talking about how to build a team and the quality of the management, 2007 and especially 2011 are not examples to follow. The 2011 team is by every metric the worst ever Super Bowl champ by some distance.
The Giants have won 12+ games 3 times in 28 years.
That 2011 team may be the worst team to ever win a championship in all of our professional team sports. Maybe the 2006 St Louis Cardinals are in that debate...
I saw the shell shocked, ducking Eli that you saw last year. That will end. Eli’s typical Sunday, 2nd half, Down 14, sacked 6 times, wacked on the last two plays, And a free 300lb linemen bearing down on you. And did I forget to say your coach benched you for Geno Smith? Who wouldn’t duck?
Three new offensive Linemen and Barkley. Ducking, skittish Eli is a thing of the past. Get ready for the resurrection.
Quote:
No one is saying the title doesn't count. But if we're talking about how to build a team and the quality of the management, 2007 and especially 2011 are not examples to follow. The 2011 team is by every metric the worst ever Super Bowl champ by some distance.
The Giants have won 12+ games 3 times in 28 years.
That 2011 team may be the worst team to ever win a championship in all of our professional team sports. Maybe the 2006 St Louis Cardinals are in that debate...
I HATE that talking point. What does it say about the other teams that competed for the championship that season? Would they too have been the "worst teams to ever win a championship" considering how much trouble they had with the Giants during the regular season in 2011? The Giants beat the best team in the AFC (Patriots) on their homefield that year. The Giants lost to the Packers (#1 seed in NFC) on a FG as time expired during the regular season. They lost to the 49ers (#2 seed in NFC) by 7 points in San Francisco, yet had the ball inside the 10 yard-line with a chance to tie in the final minute of the game.
Quote:
No one is saying the title doesn't count. But if we're talking about how to build a team and the quality of the management, 2007 and especially 2011 are not examples to follow. The 2011 team is by every metric the worst ever Super Bowl champ by some distance.
The Giants have won 12+ games 3 times in 28 years.
That 2011 team may be the worst team to ever win a championship in all of our professional team sports.
I don't agree with that. Sure, they weren't a juggernaut, but they had players on offense that any team would've coveted. Nicks and Cruz were exceptional players. The Giants haven't fielded a pair of players on offense like that since their short-lived run. And on the other side, JPP had a year that put him in DPOY conversation. Yeah, the offensive line was patchwork and they couldn't run the ball well, but that team was a good mix of outstanding young players and enough veterans to get by.
The team that navigated through those playoffs was quite good. So this whole "worst team to ever win a title" nonsense is nothing other than gross hyperbole. Give me a break.
The Giants beat a 15-1 Packers team on the road, a 49ers team with an absolutely punishing defense in absolute slop, and capped it off by beating Belichick and Brady in the Super Bowl.. for a second time.
The 2011 team was wildly inconsistent during the course of that season, but once they were firing on all cylinders, they played really, really well. They earned that trophy.
But admitting that means you have to give credit to Eli, and we all know how much "bee dubs" simply refuses to do so...
What's the difference?
They're a championship team. You can spin it any way you want, no one wins a free Lombardi in this league.
The Offense, Defense and Specials had their ups and downs during those regular seasons, but all 3 units really were firing on all cylinders during the playoffs. All contributing at key points in those games...which is why they didn't lose any I guess.
And, of course, Eli was special in both playoff runs as been mentioned countless times...
Quote:
For dep and Britt
An asshole says what...??
A douche was saying??
This is so very true.
That 2011 team may be the worst team to ever win a championship in all of our professional team sports.
I don't agree with that. Sure, they weren't a juggernaut, but they had players on offense that any team would've coveted. Nicks and Cruz were exceptional players. The Giants haven't fielded a pair of players on offense like that since their short-lived run. And on the other side, JPP had a year that put him in DPOY conversation. Yeah, the offensive line was patchwork and they couldn't run the ball well, but that team was a good mix of outstanding young players and enough veterans to get by.
The NBA, MLB, NHL determine their winners via best of series; so that format rarely, if ever, produces a winner out of nowhere.
So that leaves the NFL. I suggest you go through the list of 52 SB winners and find a team that the ‘11 Giants would be a favorite or match up better talent wise.
I came down to the ‘82 Skins, ‘00 Ravens, ‘02 Bucs, ‘12 Ravens, and the ‘15 Broncos. All of those teams had shakier QB play than Eli.
Theisman was a classic game manager and that team sort of got fortunate by short season because the strike. Hard to gauge this team from a historical perspective. Take them off.
Dilfer was a mistake constantly waiting to happen, but he was the beneficiary of a historic defense. They would have destroyed us 6-3. ; )
The ‘02 Bucs may be a reach by me because they did have some balance and that defense was historic, too. Plus, they had a 12-4 regular season. However, like both Eli led SB winners, their offense finally clicked in the post season. And they got fortunate by playing the Raiders in the SB. But that it’s hard to think Eli could make much of a dent on that defense.
The ‘12 Ravens were led by a QB similar to Eli, but, in my judgement, worse. But like Eli, Flacco got scorching hot in the playoffs and pulled a rabbit out of the hat to beat the Broncos in the divisional round. They had a terrific defense, but were only 10-6 in the regular season and got in as a wildcard. And one of those wins was one of the luckiest in history when they converted a 4th and 30 on a bullish-t screen to Ray Rice where the Chargers played dead. You need to watch that if you didn’t see it.
I threw in the ‘15 Broncos because Peyton was so poor that year. He hit the wall. But again, like many of the others, they had a historic defense that just strangled the opposition.
In my judgment, those are the teams the ‘11 Giants are up against as the most unimpressive SB winner ever. The biggest advantage our team has, on paper, seems to be Eli. However, those teams had stellar defenses and that likely gives them the edge...except, maybe, the ‘12 Ravens because they are very similar to that Giant team with a season that had everything fall into place at the right time...
So the point remains. That ‘11 team was not a stellar team at all. And it’s hard to call them anything but a fortunate team that just got hot at the right time...
I love Eli. He’s an all-time Giant great and possible HOFer but he’s got 2 rings. And he was a top 5 QB for only a few years in his career, at most. Arguably, just once.
Let’s be happier about things.
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No one is saying the title doesn't count. But if we're talking about how to build a team and the quality of the management, 2007 and especially 2011 are not examples to follow. The 2011 team is by every metric the worst ever Super Bowl champ by some distance.
The Giants have won 12+ games 3 times in 28 years.
That 2011 team may be the worst team to ever win a championship in all of our professional team sports. Maybe the 2006 St Louis Cardinals are in that debate...
Holy shit if there was any doubt you are a very dim bulb it has been cemented on this thread...
So the point remains. That ‘11 team was not a stellar team at all. And it’s hard to call them anything but a fortunate team that just got hot at the right time...
I'm perfectly in agreement with you that they weren't some great team. You're right that given the format of the NFL, you're going to get less than ideal champions. I just don't agree whatsoever that they're one of the worst championship teams of all time. They beat the patriots when coming into that game the whole story was that it was about revenge for 2007 and how could Brady possibly lose again.
You can't be one of the worst champions of all time when you have some star players who played like stars and you beat competition of that class, as well as the teams they beat on the playoff road to the championship.
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That 2011 team may be the worst team to ever win a championship in all of our professional team sports.
I don't agree with that. Sure, they weren't a juggernaut, but they had players on offense that any team would've coveted. Nicks and Cruz were exceptional players. The Giants haven't fielded a pair of players on offense like that since their short-lived run. And on the other side, JPP had a year that put him in DPOY conversation. Yeah, the offensive line was patchwork and they couldn't run the ball well, but that team was a good mix of outstanding young players and enough veterans to get by.
The NBA, MLB, NHL determine their winners via best of series; so that format rarely, if ever, produces a winner out of nowhere.
So that leaves the NFL. I suggest you go through the list of 52 SB winners and find a team that the ‘11 Giants would be a favorite or match up better talent wise.
I came down to the ‘82 Skins, ‘00 Ravens, ‘02 Bucs, ‘12 Ravens, and the ‘15 Broncos. All of those teams had shakier QB play than Eli.
Theisman was a classic game manager and that team sort of got fortunate by short season because the strike. Hard to gauge this team from a historical perspective. Take them off.
Dilfer was a mistake constantly waiting to happen, but he was the beneficiary of a historic defense. They would have destroyed us 6-3. ; )
The ‘02 Bucs may be a reach by me because they did have some balance and that defense was historic, too. Plus, they had a 12-4 regular season. However, like both Eli led SB winners, their offense finally clicked in the post season. And they got fortunate by playing the Raiders in the SB. But that it’s hard to think Eli could make much of a dent on that defense.
The ‘12 Ravens were led by a QB similar to Eli, but, in my judgement, worse. But like Eli, Flacco got scorching hot in the playoffs and pulled a rabbit out of the hat to beat the Broncos in the divisional round. They had a terrific defense, but were only 10-6 in the regular season and got in as a wildcard. And one of those wins was one of the luckiest in history when they converted a 4th and 30 on a bullish-t screen to Ray Rice where the Chargers played dead. You need to watch that if you didn’t see it.
I threw in the ‘15 Broncos because Peyton was so poor that year. He hit the wall. But again, like many of the others, they had a historic defense that just strangled the opposition.
In my judgment, those are the teams the ‘11 Giants are up against as the most unimpressive SB winner ever. The biggest advantage our team has, on paper, seems to be Eli. However, those teams had stellar defenses and that likely gives them the edge...except, maybe, the ‘12 Ravens because they are very similar to that Giant team with a season that had everything fall into place at the right time...
So the point remains. That ‘11 team was not a stellar team at all. And it’s hard to call them anything but a fortunate team that just got hot at the right time...
Lol, nominee for worst post of all time in BBI History. What a beauty this is. There are so many things to look at but I don’t know where to start!
10-6
15-1 on the road
13-3 on the road
13-3 Brady and Belichick
In route to winning a SB. Every other SB team in history would have done so.
I have zero doubts, with his present arsenal, that Eli, still healthy with a strong arm, can be clutch Eli again, EXCEPT for the POSSIBILITY of PTSD, through little fault of his own. I hope your “latter” is the correct one. If it is, just watch..
It is hard to take somebody serious who spends so much time tearing down ownership.
By the way, when it comes down to comparing SB winners, which is a useless exercise, most of the early SB teams were far less powerful. Some of the Dolphin and Raiders teams that won were less than impressive, as were the Colts. We romanticize a lot of them for the early success in the league, but even the miracle Jets team wasn't all that great.
This. The lack of attention to the line was negligence.
you are insufferable
By the way, when it comes down to comparing SB winners, which is a useless exercise, most of the early SB teams were far less powerful. Some of the Dolphin and Raiders teams that won were less than impressive, as were the Colts. We romanticize a lot of them for the early success in the league, but even the miracle Jets team wasn't all that great.
Ok, movin’ on..😎
ARodgers played great when the Packers put an average product around him. That is wasting a qb's prime years
Eli has played bad and requires All Pro talent to function while making over 20 million a season
You could say Indy wasted Peyton's prime by fielding a non-competitive D
You could say the same about Brees. Two years the Saints had the worst D in the league
You could say the Lions wasted Barry Sanders prime
You could say that the Vikings wasted AP's prime by never having a successful QB/WR combo to go with him
The list goes on and on.
What I know is Eli has 2 rings. The folly are fans who expected the team to have more. Romo has none on a team fans here usually marvel at the construct of. The Redskins have a long drought. We talk about Eli's prime being wasted as his contempories like Brees, Rodgers, Rivers and Ryan have less titles to show.
What Eli is right now, in 2018, is absolutely up for debate.
What isn't up for debate is that we've been truly blessed to have this player for as long as we've had him and that he brought us two of the greatest moments in the entire history of this franchise.
I have no problem with people who think Eli is done, wanted to draft a QB, move on, etc - I didn't necessarily feel exactly the same way, but I get that.
How anyone could harbor dislike for Eli in general as a Giants fan at this point is just really difficult to understand. Doesn't sound like much of a Giants fan, really.
What isn't up for debate is that we've been truly blessed to have this player for as long as we've had him and that he brought us two of the greatest moments in the entire history of this franchise.
Correction: “...that he brought us two of the greatest moments in the entire history of sports.”
So you believe he has had enough talent surrounding him the last 6 years to make a playoff/SB run?
Not even sure who you're arguing with or what you're arguing.
No one is asking anyone to make excuses for him. The point is that he's been an all-time Giant and one of the most important players in the history of the franchise.
The poster I was referring to literally hates the guy. It baffles me.
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of play. Why does it have to be love or hate for a player. Eli will always be an iconic Giant for helping win 2 rings. But am not going to make excuses for him.
Not even sure who you're arguing with or what you're arguing.
No one is asking anyone to make excuses for him. The point is that he's been an all-time Giant and one of the most important players in the history of the franchise.
The poster I was referring to literally hates the guy. It baffles me.
Well so does NYSports1..... so it could have applied to him.
I'm perfectly in agreement with you that they weren't some great team. You're right that given the format of the NFL, you're going to get less than ideal champions. I just don't agree whatsoever that they're one of the worst championship teams of all time. They beat the patriots when coming into that game the whole story was that it was about revenge for 2007 and how could Brady possibly lose again.
You can't be one of the worst champions of all time when you have some star players who played like stars and you beat competition of that class, as well as the teams they beat on the playoff road to the championship.
Well, this '11 team with these "star" players went 9-7 again the following year. Only they weren't so fortunate to back into the playoffs again. So they couldn't catch lightening in a bottle again.
However, I agree - to the victor goes the spoils. They took down some big teams. That is certainly worth applauding.
But stripped down, this was a team that just got hot at the right time. And really haven't/weren't able to duplicate anything remotely similar since. Think that speaks volumes...
Lol, nominee for worst post of all time in BBI History. What a beauty this is. There are so many things to look at but I don’t know where to start!
Well, you didn't see my endless debate about Larry Centers being better than Tiki Barber back in '98 and '99. ;)
A stunning post? Really? The team was 9-7.
"Premier regular season by Eli"? He had a decent rating of 93 but threw 16 INTs to 29TDs, less than 2:1 ratio. That's some definition of "premier"...
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So the point remains. That ‘11 team was not a stellar team at all. And it’s hard to call them anything but a fortunate team that just got hot at the right time...
you are insufferable
It's always easier to drive in the right lane with the mainstream Giants fans and parrot what they say instead, right?
It is hard to take somebody serious who spends so much time tearing down ownership.
I would say it differently - I expose ownership.
I actually love Jints Central. They are sweet, old men trying their damnest to do things the "Giants Way". Whatever the hell that is...
But to make the playoffs only 5 times in 14 years in this mess of a division...