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NFT: NYK, NBA Prospect Discussion

Pep22 : 6/12/2018 10:35 am
Guys who will definitely be gone: (and I'll taker a shot at some comparisons; note: any player can BUST due to $$/fame, situation or injury so below are upside comparisons)

Ayton - Comparison: Andre Drummond

Doncic - Comparison: Paul Pierce

Bagley - Comp: Amare Staudimire

JJJ: Comp: Serge Ibaka

Bamba: Comp: Rudy Goebert

Guys who will probably be gone:

Young: Comp: a poor man's Steve Nash (but I am pessimistic)

Porter: Comp: Rudy Gay

Carter Jr.: not lefty and a tad less athletic, but Chris Bosh (smart, skilled, lengthy big man)

Guys to choose from at 9:

Mikal Bridges: Comp: a better shooting Trevor Ariza

Miles Bridges: Jaylen Brown (physically mature, smart, top tier athlete, solid skill level although Brown is lengthier)

Collin Sexton: many say Eric Bledsoe, I see a shorter/6'2" version of John Wall. Still, I do not think Sexton or Young will be the pick.

Lonnie Walker: very intriguing player, reminds me in body type, athleticicsm and personality of Bradley Beal, the shot is good but not near Beal's caliber at this point

Kevin Knox: I don't like him at all. Seems sluggish in his effort. Not dynamic athletically.

Zhaire Smith: Shorter than I hoped but long armed and this years Donovan Mitchell in terms of off the charts athleticism. I am not saying he will blow up the league like DM did, but his floor is Avery Bradley (not bad at all).

% likelihood:

Porter 2%
Carter 3%
Walker/Smith 10% each
Miles Bridges: 25%
Mikal Bridges: 50%
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Most mocks have him going in the range of the Knicks pick so Wagner  
Heisenberg : 6/12/2018 3:30 pm : link
might be available.
RE: Yeah I'd sit tight at nine.  
Beezer : 6/12/2018 3:30 pm : link
In comment 13989514 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I have a feeling someone we don't expect to be there at nine is gonna be there at nine, and it might be Porter anyway. I don't want to ditch Frank at this point.


Jesus no! Frank is still growing ... physically and as a player. He's got terrific upside, even if he doesn't make it to "star" level. And you never know about that.
RE: What's the upside on Michigan's Wagner?  
Anakim : 6/12/2018 3:31 pm : link
In comment 13989594 Beezer said:
Quote:
Might he be around when the Knicks pick in the 2nd round?

Could be a good add, imo. Kid's a ballplayer. Tough.


I think anytime you have a big guy who can shoot the three, you pay a little more attention. But from what I've heard, his defense is a disaster.
He works terribly hard out there.  
Beezer : 6/12/2018 3:32 pm : link
Gotta think his D could improve.
Frank is as old as the prospects in the upcoming draft  
Anakim : 6/12/2018 3:33 pm : link
It's kind of like he's an extra first rounder. I worry about his offense and his shot, but it's way too soon to give up on him.


Wouldn't surprise me if they did though. He was a Phil pick thru and thru. He wasn't even on Perry's radar.
frank looks like he put on some weight  
nygiants16 : 6/12/2018 3:34 pm : link
hopefully this year he comes in a lot more comfortable and not as timid on offense
.  
Anakim : 6/12/2018 3:37 pm : link
I'm sorry but Trae Young really reminds me of a glorified Trey Burke...never mind that Young's defense looks pedestrian and he often looks disinterested out there.
I'm content to just add #9 and #36 and see how we do.  
bceagle05 : 6/12/2018 3:41 pm : link
I have no faith in the Knicks executing a draft-day trade that benefits them.
Frank + 9  
Carl in CT : 6/12/2018 4:02 pm : link
I can see an interest by Orlando at #6. Porter better be as advertised coming out of HS to make in work.
RE: Frank + 9  
nygiants16 : 6/12/2018 4:07 pm : link
In comment 13989634 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
I can see an interest by Orlando at #6. Porter better be as advertised coming out of HS to make in work.


i am not trading frank to kove up 3 slots
RE: Frank + 9  
giantsfan44ab : 6/12/2018 4:15 pm : link
In comment 13989634 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
I can see an interest by Orlando at #6. Porter better be as advertised coming out of HS to make in work.


That would be a pretty fucking dumb move.
Not what I hope.  
Carl in CT : 6/12/2018 5:26 pm : link
Its being talked about
RE: Not what I hope.  
nygiants16 : 6/12/2018 5:32 pm : link
In comment 13989707 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Its being talked about


i am sure trams are trying to snake him, doesnt mean the knicks want to
Hard to imagine  
Pep22 : 6/12/2018 5:37 pm : link
Frank + 9 = 6 in anybody's opinion of value.

That would be pretty disturbing of a management that (unlike PJax) seems to understand value. I am not saying its been home runs, but it hasn't been strikeouts. To continue the baseball analogy:

-dumping Melo
-adding Burke plus a team option
-adding Williams plus a team option

were all solid moves and the Fizdale move is potentially better than solid.
OP...  
bw in dc : 6/12/2018 6:46 pm : link
Doncic = Paul Pierce?

Where in Gods name did you get that comparison?
And Ayton as Drummond?  
bw in dc : 6/12/2018 6:50 pm : link
Have you seen Ayton play? He has a legit perimeter game and can put the ball on the floor.

Drummond possesses none of those skills. Hes a classic inside the paint, back to the basket player.
Heard r  
giantsfan44ab : 6/12/2018 8:16 pm : link
a Hedu Turkoglu comp for Doncic. Haven't seen Doncic all that much but I can kind of see that one.

But going down player comparisons is fun but gotta be careful pigeonholing these guys just as their comps.
One thing about this draft is I think the players at 9 look way  
NoGainDayne : 6/12/2018 8:28 pm : link
better than last year.

Mikal Bridges has a great floor. And wouldn't mind him at all.

Porter JR is the kind of guy that could turn us into a free agent destination next year.

Knox is the guy that really intrigues me. Many seem to dislike him here but he is young and has a lot of potential.

If he fills out his frame and improves a bit he could make a very interesting small ball lineup with KP.

Carter or Bomba are obviously dream falls. Think either of them pair great with KP.

The thing about Young and others have touched on it even if you get his ceiling I don't think he fits well with KP.
i think people dont like knox  
nygiants16 : 6/12/2018 8:50 pm : link
because he seems like a prohect but also people are worried about his work ethic..i dont know where it comes from ut people are worried he wont reach that potential
the guy who is really intrigueing is anfernee simons  
nygiants16 : 6/12/2018 8:58 pm : link
..
RE: i think people dont like knox  
Eli Wilson : 6/12/2018 9:05 pm : link
In comment 13989831 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
because he seems like a prohect but also people are worried about his work ethic..i dont know where it comes from ut people are worried he wont reach that potential


I just don't like looking at his forehead. Something weird going on there.
RE: RE: RE: From Begley  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/12/2018 9:58 pm : link
In comment 13989553 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 13989506 Pep22 said:


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In comment 13989499 TyreeHelmet said:


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Some teams with picks ahead of the Knicks have reached out to New York gauge its interest on trading up to draft Michael Porter Jr., league sources say.



I'd be willing to part with Ron Baker...and if push comes to shove, Lance Thomas as well.



Baker owes Phil Jackson big time. One of the more ridiculous contracts Ive seen recently. But at least it seems like hes a good guy.

Didn't Mills give Baker that contract?
RE: RE: RE: RE: From Begley  
Anakim : 6/12/2018 10:59 pm : link
In comment 13989893 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 13989553 TyreeHelmet said:


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In comment 13989506 Pep22 said:


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In comment 13989499 TyreeHelmet said:


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Some teams with picks ahead of the Knicks have reached out to New York gauge its interest on trading up to draft Michael Porter Jr., league sources say.



I'd be willing to part with Ron Baker...and if push comes to shove, Lance Thomas as well.



Baker owes Phil Jackson big time. One of the more ridiculous contracts Ive seen recently. But at least it seems like hes a good guy.


Didn't Mills give Baker that contract?


Yep
Mills gave Baker that contract.  
bceagle05 : 6/12/2018 11:05 pm : link
Mills gave Hardaway THAT contract.
Mills was on the verge of taking back Ryan Anderson's albatross contract in a Melo-to-Houston deal (before Perry hit the reset button).
Mills reportedly wanted Malik Monk (as did many, including me at times).

Nice enough guy, but he's been here for all of this nonsense over the years. Our only hope is that he lets Perry and Fizdale run the show - Mills' only job should be to keep Jimmy Dolan at bay.
Id ask Calipari about Knox. Booker wasnt as good of a prospect  
Jim in Hoboken : 6/12/2018 11:45 pm : link
coming out and look at what hes done. Different players, but its hard to extrapolate UK players pro potential from their college production.

Bamba is so mechanical in his movement that its hard to fathom he will ever be a dynamic offensive player. I guess he can simply shoot over defender and be similar to Ewing. Seems to have a good head on his shoulders, easy player to root for.

Sexton is growing on me. He doesnt back down from anybody and we need one of those players on this team. Id gamble on Smith or Porter too if somehow they are convinced Sextons game wont translate, but definitely not the others. We are never going to get out of this rut if we stick with safe picks. Having a nice 3 and D guy like Bowen or Ariza is nice
and all but not when you dont have Duncan/Manu/Parker or Harden/Paul yet. We already have Frank and bunch of other guys who cant create their own shots, we now need a difference maker. KP is a good start but we need a stud in the backcourt too.
RE: OP...  
Pep22 : 6/13/2018 8:31 am : link
In comment 13989748 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Doncic = Paul Pierce?

Where in Gods name did you get that comparison?


So annoying how people turn into assholes for no particular reason.

The PP comp was per the following:

-both 6'7"
-both very strong and use that strength very well
-both high skilled shot makers with a great deal of variety
-both very competitive and the kinds of players that don't fear physicality or big moments
-both offer some position versatility although Doncic has more facilitating instincts
-neither is physically gifted as it relates to run/jump
I think  
NJGiantFan84 : 6/13/2018 9:00 am : link
busts usually stem from a lack of talent and/or work ethic than any circumstance. Money, fame, situation and injury certainly play into it at times. But usually, bust prospects just don't live up to their projected talent or don't work hard to improve their game.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: From Begley  
Strahan91 : 6/13/2018 9:44 am : link
In comment 13989914 Anakim said:
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In comment 13989893 Gatorade Dunk said:


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In comment 13989553 TyreeHelmet said:


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In comment 13989506 Pep22 said:


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In comment 13989499 TyreeHelmet said:


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Some teams with picks ahead of the Knicks have reached out to New York gauge its interest on trading up to draft Michael Porter Jr., league sources say.



I'd be willing to part with Ron Baker...and if push comes to shove, Lance Thomas as well.



Baker owes Phil Jackson big time. One of the more ridiculous contracts Ive seen recently. But at least it seems like hes a good guy.


Didn't Mills give Baker that contract?



Yep


This is purely my opinion but I believe Jackson had offered and agreed to the deal with Baker's agent before he was fired and Mills either was okay with it or couldn't then go back on it given the ripple effect that might have. My thinking is as follows:

1) It was no secret that Jackson loved Baker and wanted to lock him up
2) A day or two after Jackson was canned, Baker was in Las Vegas with the Knicks summer league team and told reporters he had agreed to a deal with the Knicks. It wasn't finalized for months later for cap flexibility purposes but that would've been an awfully tight timeline for Mills to get the job and resign him that fast.
3) Jackson had a history of overpaying when it came to resigning Knicks role players who had no value around the league or on the open market. Lance Thomas, Lou Amundson, etc.

On another note, I thought this article was interesting. ESPN's model loves Mikal.
Boom or bust: ESPN's Draft Analytics model predicts top players in 2018 NBA draft - ( New Window )
I think the two prospects I'd be most comfortable with  
giantsfan44ab : 6/13/2018 10:40 am : link
are Sexton and Mikal Bridges. I give the nod to Sexton due to upside but I also think Bridges is a bit underrated offensively. He is a great finisher, can push in transition. He doesn't have a great handle but he can take advantage of slower/bigger guys with it. And there's a mid range component to his game that gets overlooked and lost with all these Ariza and Covington comparisons. He can get looks in that area that Ariza can't create. Same goes for his passing. I think he has 15-17 PPG and 2-3 assists per game upside.

Many people seem to forget that Ariza was pretty much a non shooter for the first half of his career and made significant strides to get to where he is today. At the same age, Bridges and Ariza aren't comparable. Bridges can get his shot off quickly and doesn't have to be set necessarily. I think he is more comparable to a Klay Thompson then Ariza as a shooter (not saying he will be Klay, just comparing his ability to hit off balance shots).

But I like Sexton's athleticism and creating ability. I think the floor will open up for him in the NBA. I think he offers similar offensive upside to Dennis Smith but has the tools to become a good if not great defender.
Cross  
DanMetroMan : 6/14/2018 11:36 am : link
off MPJ. Top 4 promise.
RE: Cross  
Jon in NYC : 6/14/2018 11:41 am : link
In comment 13991085 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
off MPJ. Top 4 promise.


Wow.
Breaking:  
DanMetroMan : 6/14/2018 11:42 am : link
Shams Charania

Verified account

@ShamsCharania
3m3 minutes ago
More
Sources: NBA Draft lottery teams were informed Wednesday that Missouris Michael Porter Jr., a projected high-lottery draft pick, canceled second Pro Day workout Friday because of hip spasms and would undergo tests.
RE: Breaking:  
Anakim : 6/14/2018 11:46 am : link
In comment 13991093 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Shams Charania

Verified account

@ShamsCharania
3m3 minutes ago
More
Sources: NBA Draft lottery teams were informed Wednesday that Missouris Michael Porter Jr., a projected high-lottery draft pick, canceled second Pro Day workout Friday because of hip spasms and would undergo tests.


Is it that or does he have a promise?
I would consider that good news  
ghost718 : 6/14/2018 11:53 am : link
Congrats to the sucker,I mean team
Awfully risky  
Anakim : 6/14/2018 11:55 am : link
So that means one of the Big-5 (Ayton, Bamba, JJJ, Bagley III and Doncic) drops out of the Top-5.

Magic need a PG. Could they be interested in Frankie N and the ninth overall pick? I can see them going with Trae Young.
RE: RE: Breaking:  
DanMetroMan : 6/14/2018 11:57 am : link
In comment 13991099 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 13991093 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Shams Charania

Verified account

@ShamsCharania
3m3 minutes ago
More
Sources: NBA Draft lottery teams were informed Wednesday that Missouris Michael Porter Jr., a projected high-lottery draft pick, canceled second Pro Day workout Friday because of hip spasms and would undergo tests.



Is it that or does he have a promise?


Was just told off the record "he 100% has a top 4 promise and it's Memphis. If he gets past 2 he's going 4"
RE: RE: RE: Breaking:  
Anakim : 6/14/2018 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13991121 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13991099 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 13991093 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Shams Charania

Verified account

@ShamsCharania
3m3 minutes ago
More
Sources: NBA Draft lottery teams were informed Wednesday that Missouris Michael Porter Jr., a projected high-lottery draft pick, canceled second Pro Day workout Friday because of hip spasms and would undergo tests.



Is it that or does he have a promise?



Was just told off the record "he 100% has a top 4 promise and it's Memphis. If he gets past 2 he's going 4"


Surprising. I would think that JJJ or Bamba would be ideal fits next to Gasol
RE: Awfully risky  
giantsfan44ab : 6/14/2018 12:16 pm : link
In comment 13991117 Anakim said:
Quote:
So that means one of the Big-5 (Ayton, Bamba, JJJ, Bagley III and Doncic) drops out of the Top-5.

Magic need a PG. Could they be interested in Frankie N and the ninth overall pick? I can see them going with Trae Young.


You'd trade a previous year lottery pick to move up 3 spots? I don't see many consensus "star" draft picks in this class, it for sure seems like a year where there are guys going in the 10-20 range that will be better than some of the guys picked in the 5-9 range. That would be a downright awful trade IMO.
RE: RE: Awfully risky  
Anakim : 6/14/2018 12:25 pm : link
In comment 13991144 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13991117 Anakim said:


Quote:


So that means one of the Big-5 (Ayton, Bamba, JJJ, Bagley III and Doncic) drops out of the Top-5.

Magic need a PG. Could they be interested in Frankie N and the ninth overall pick? I can see them going with Trae Young.



You'd trade a previous year lottery pick to move up 3 spots? I don't see many consensus "star" draft picks in this class, it for sure seems like a year where there are guys going in the 10-20 range that will be better than some of the guys picked in the 5-9 range. That would be a downright awful trade IMO.


I mean if it meant Bamba or JJJ at 6, you consider it, no?
IMO  
giantsfan44ab : 6/14/2018 12:31 pm : link
it would be downright dumb to even consider it. It's not like we are talking about 1 or 2 or 3. Frank was probably in the 95th+ percentile of where 19 year olds are defensively their first year. At 6 you aren't talking about a guy who everyone sees as a guaranteed success. Especially a center in todays NBA. And I LOVE JJJ. Trading 2 prospects for 1 just doesn't seem like the right move at any point if its not for a top 3 pick.
Lot of mocks are swinging toward Knox at nine.  
bceagle05 : 6/14/2018 2:00 pm : link
I get a Charlie Villanueva vibe from him, but I understand the youth and skill set is intriguing.
RE: Lot of mocks are swinging toward Knox at nine.  
giantsfan44ab : 6/14/2018 2:08 pm : link
In comment 13991229 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I get a Charlie Villanueva vibe from him, but I understand the youth and skill set is intriguing.


I worry about Knox compared to the other wings. He is probably the worst defender of the bunch, is most suited for a 4 but a subpar rebounder, and I can't really see any great skills outside his shooting (which he is good at). He's not a freak athlete and his handle is basic. I just can't see it with him.
And by freak athlete  
giantsfan44ab : 6/14/2018 2:09 pm : link
yes he can get up but he doesnt move well laterally and his first step isn't outstanding.
Memphis  
TyreeHelmet : 6/14/2018 6:06 pm : link
Is reportedly willing to trade the 4th pick to move Parsons. I would be all over this if I'm the Knicks. It would kill the 2019 cap space, but I'd rather have the 4th pick then some pipedream to sign a star in 2019.

Lee/ Thomas for Parsons/ 4th? One can dream.
.  
nygiants16 : 6/14/2018 7:00 pm : link
lee thomas, mudiay and a future 2nd for parsons and 4...

saves them 11 million after next year...

plus saves them off the 4th round pick..
RE: .  
Jon in NYC : 6/14/2018 8:50 pm : link
In comment 13991443 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
lee thomas, mudiay and a future 2nd for parsons and 4...

saves them 11 million after next year...

plus saves them off the 4th round pick..


they aren't going to trade the 4th pick for 3 useless players lol.
RE: RE: .  
nygiants16 : 6/14/2018 9:04 pm : link
In comment 13991518 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13991443 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


lee thomas, mudiay and a future 2nd for parsons and 4...

saves them 11 million after next year...

plus saves them off the 4th round pick..



they aren't going to trade the 4th pick for 3 useless players lol.


and the knicks are taking on one of the worst contracts in the nba and saving them 11 million. .

and lee is useless?
and if 9 has to be included  
nygiants16 : 6/14/2018 9:06 pm : link
you do it..
RE: RE: RE: .  
Jon in NYC : 6/14/2018 9:10 pm : link
In comment 13991533 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13991518 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13991443 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


lee thomas, mudiay and a future 2nd for parsons and 4...

saves them 11 million after next year...

plus saves them off the 4th round pick..



they aren't going to trade the 4th pick for 3 useless players lol.



and the knicks are taking on one of the worst contracts in the nba and saving them 11 million. .

and lee is useless?


yes, Lee is useless.
Ok 16 Ill play  
Carl in CT : 6/14/2018 9:26 pm : link
We included #9 take on a huge contract for #4. Who are we picking at #4 (assume the big guy is gone), Bagley Doncic or Bamba? (JJ maybe?).
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