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Contract holdouts around the league

Ten Ton Hammer : 6/12/2018 1:25 pm
I figured it's worthwhile with nothing else going on to track how other teams are dealing with it. It's not bad perspective to see how common these situations can be.

So far I've got:
Taylor Lewan, TEN
Julio Jones, ATL
Earl Thomas, SEA
Khalil Mack, OAK
Aaron Donald, LAR
Leveon Bell, PIT
I wonder  
ryanmkeane : 6/12/2018 1:26 pm : link
how much time they'll spend talking about these guys being a distraction to their teams
RE: I wonder  
Gmen88 : 6/12/2018 1:28 pm : link
In comment 13989428 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
how much time they'll spend talking about these guys being a distraction to their teams


Or on fake trade talks.
WTH is Julio Jones holding out for?  
mrvax : 6/12/2018 1:32 pm : link
He signed a huge 5 year $72M deal in 2015. He has 2 more years left on it.
Jones is the most puzzling  
UConn4523 : 6/12/2018 1:34 pm : link
he’s really only has himself to blame for signing that team friendly deal he did when he should have gotten more. I wouldn’t cave if I were Atlanta - his long term outlook injurywise would scare me. He’s been the most banged up top tier WR by a wide margin.
2014 Draft  
giants#1 : 6/12/2018 1:38 pm : link
Lewan
Mack
Donald

Obviously Beckham is part of that class. Seems like a lot of guys are unhappy with the 5th year options.
RE: Jones is the most puzzling  
mrvax : 6/12/2018 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13989434 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
he’s really only has himself to blame for signing that team friendly deal he did when he should have gotten more. I wouldn’t cave if I were Atlanta - his long term outlook injurywise would scare me. He’s been the most banged up top tier WR by a wide margin.


Team friendly? Back in 2015, a contract for a WR with an AAV of $14.4M+ was huge. Falcons should play hard ball.
I believe Julio has  
Keith : 6/12/2018 1:43 pm : link
3 years left on his deal.
RE: I believe Julio has  
mrvax : 6/12/2018 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13989439 Keith said:
Quote:
3 years left on his deal.


I looked it up and it said 2018, 2019, F/A.
RE: WTH is Julio Jones holding out for?  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/12/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13989433 mrvax said:
Quote:
He signed a huge 5 year $72M deal in 2015. He has 2 more years left on it.


He should try to get every penny out of them as he can get. His expiration date is approaching.
What does Jones want?  
mrvax : 6/12/2018 1:47 pm : link
Another $3M per? For his paltry 3 TDs last year?
RE: I wonder  
djstat : 6/12/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13989428 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
how much time they'll spend talking about these guys being a distraction to their teams
They already are
Not that it really matters,  
Keith : 6/12/2018 1:48 pm : link
but sportrac has him as a FA in 2021
Link - ( New Window )
RE: 2014 Draft  
djstat : 6/12/2018 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13989437 giants#1 said:
Quote:
Lewan
Mack
Donald

Obviously Beckham is part of that class. Seems like a lot of guys are unhappy with the 5th year options.
Lets see what happens when Camp starts and the fine jumps to $30,000 per day. Spoiled brats
RE: 2014 Draft  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/12/2018 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13989437 giants#1 said:
Quote:
Lewan
Mack
Donald

Obviously Beckham is part of that class. Seems like a lot of guys are unhappy with the 5th year options.


It's part of why I don't like the rookie pay scale. There's no allowance for wildly outperforming your draft slot.
RE: Not that it really matters,  
giants#1 : 6/12/2018 1:51 pm : link
In comment 13989449 Keith said:
Quote:
but sportrac has him as a FA in 2021 Link - ( New Window )


So does OTC
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: 2014 Draft  
giants#1 : 6/12/2018 1:53 pm : link
In comment 13989450 djstat said:
Quote:
In comment 13989437 giants#1 said:


Quote:


Lewan
Mack
Donald

Obviously Beckham is part of that class. Seems like a lot of guys are unhappy with the 5th year options.

Lets see what happens when Camp starts and the fine jumps to $30,000 per day. Spoiled brats


Why are they spoiled? With the current CBA, they can't even really negotiate until after their 5th season. While the owners screwing the players gets lots of attention, you rarely hear about how bad the vets screwed those entering the league (who can't vote on the CBA).
RE: Not that it really matters,  
mrvax : 6/12/2018 1:53 pm : link
In comment 13989449 Keith said:
Quote:
but sportrac has him as a FA in 2021 Link - ( New Window )


Yeah, that's kinda weird b/c he signed a 5 year deal in 2015 as sportrac also shows.
Maybe it was a 5 year extension  
Keith : 6/12/2018 1:55 pm : link
on his current contract that had 1 year left?
#Facts - OBJ has had more TDs every year than Julio Jones  
bumpsinthenight : 6/12/2018 1:55 pm : link
since entering the league...
RE: Maybe it was a 5 year extension  
mrvax : 6/12/2018 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13989460 Keith said:
Quote:
on his current contract that had 1 year left?


Yeah or some kind of option?
Spoiled??  
Keith : 6/12/2018 1:56 pm : link
How are these guys spoiled? There are no gtd contracts in the NFL and careers are cut short all the time. The shelf life of an NFL player is very short. They have every right to get as much as they can while they can. The worse CBA in sports is in the NFL, but far.
RE: 2014 Draft  
ZogZerg : 6/12/2018 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13989437 giants#1 said:
Quote:
Lewan
Mack
Donald

Obviously Beckham is part of that class. Seems like a lot of guys are unhappy with the 5th year options.


The thing is, these guys are the best players (or close to it) in the NFL at their position. Odell fits right in with this group. My guess is that he will be hanging with them if no new contract is in place when camp rolls around.
RE: Spoiled??  
mrvax : 6/12/2018 1:59 pm : link
In comment 13989468 Keith said:
Quote:
How are these guys spoiled? There are no gtd contracts in the NFL and careers are cut short all the time. The shelf life of an NFL player is very short. They have every right to get as much as they can while they can. The worse CBA in sports is in the NFL, but far.


I agree. But on the other end of the spectrum, MLB has the worst contracts. You sign a guy for mega bucks, he decides to take life easy and the team is screwed.
RE: RE: Jones is the most puzzling  
UConn4523 : 6/12/2018 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13989438 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 13989434 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


he’s really only has himself to blame for signing that team friendly deal he did when he should have gotten more. I wouldn’t cave if I were Atlanta - his long term outlook injurywise would scare me. He’s been the most banged up top tier WR by a wide margin.



Team friendly? Back in 2015, a contract for a WR with an AAV of $14.4M+ was huge. Falcons should play hard ball.


At the time I remember he could have gotten more. In any case I agree, I wouldn’t budge, too much risk with him.
Baseball is a white collar job compared to football  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/12/2018 2:03 pm : link
It's baseball that should have non-guaranteed deals.
Yeah MLB's issue is the long term deals,  
Keith : 6/12/2018 2:08 pm : link
but the teams are the ones dumb enough to give out 10 year deals. They are starting to come around though, they don't seem to be happening as often as they used to.
RE: Maybe it was a 5 year extension  
giants#1 : 6/12/2018 2:12 pm : link
In comment 13989460 Keith said:
Quote:
on his current contract that had 1 year left?


It was an extension. He entered the league in 2011 and signed a 4 year deal with the 5th year option. 2015 was the option year.
RE: RE: 2014 Draft  
giants#1 : 6/12/2018 2:13 pm : link
In comment 13989470 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In comment 13989437 giants#1 said:


Quote:


Lewan
Mack
Donald

Obviously Beckham is part of that class. Seems like a lot of guys are unhappy with the 5th year options.



The thing is, these guys are the best players (or close to it) in the NFL at their position. Odell fits right in with this group. My guess is that he will be hanging with them if no new contract is in place when camp rolls around.


I think they all show up for camp. Maybe sit 1-2 days as a statement like Hopkins last year. The fines for not showing are pretty ridiculous.
I believe NFL players should be  
mrvax : 6/12/2018 2:14 pm : link
well paid. At the same time, at our jobs, we usually have an agreed to salary and if we don't perform, the owners will be able to let you go. There should be an out available for a player who's just milking it.
I don't think players who don't play hard  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/12/2018 2:19 pm : link
is as much of an issue as fans claim it is. Losing is always conflated with lack of effort, but that isn't really the case.
RE: RE: RE: Jones is the most puzzling  
giants#1 : 6/12/2018 2:23 pm : link
In comment 13989474 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 13989438 mrvax said:


Quote:


In comment 13989434 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


he’s really only has himself to blame for signing that team friendly deal he did when he should have gotten more. I wouldn’t cave if I were Atlanta - his long term outlook injurywise would scare me. He’s been the most banged up top tier WR by a wide margin.



Team friendly? Back in 2015, a contract for a WR with an AAV of $14.4M+ was huge. Falcons should play hard ball.



At the time I remember he could have gotten more. In any case I agree, I wouldn’t budge, too much risk with him.


Thomas signed July 2015 for 5 yr/$70M ($14M AAV)
Bryant signed July 2015 for 5 yr/$70M ($14M AAV)
Hilton signed Aug 2015 for 5 yr/$65M ($13M AAV)
Julio signed Aug 2015 for 5 yr/$71.25M ($14.25M AAV)
Green signed Sept 2015 for 4 yr/$60M ($15M AAV)

Might've been a few others, but those are the big ones I found. Can definitely make a case that Julio should've been up closer to $15M per like Green, but he was content at the time just beating those other recent deals rather than holding out or having the contract issue linger during the season. At most he probably left $5-6M on the table.
Isn't Gronk and Brady not participating either?  
robbieballs2003 : 6/12/2018 2:29 pm : link
I don't think Brady's is contract related. It probably has more to do with the tension between him an Belichick. Gronk's holdout seems to be a combination of both Belichick and his contract.
don't see anything on Gronk/Brady skipping mandatory minicamp  
giants#1 : 6/12/2018 2:35 pm : link
they did skip some (all?) of the voluntary OTAs though.

David Johnson is skipping minicamp though. Similar situation to Beckham coming off a season ending injury.
RE: What does Jones want?  
djm : 6/12/2018 2:52 pm : link
In comment 13989445 mrvax said:
Quote:
Another $3M per? For his paltry 3 TDs last year?


Might want to include the catches and yards Jones accrued.
RE: 2014 Draft  
Gman11 : 6/12/2018 3:02 pm : link
In comment 13989437 giants#1 said:
Quote:
Lewan
Mack
Donald

Obviously Beckham is part of that class. Seems like a lot of guys are unhappy with the 5th year options.


Yeah, Beckham would have to scrape by on a measly $8 million. Maybe we should start a GoFundMe page for him.
RE: RE: 2014 Draft  
Gman11 : 6/12/2018 3:05 pm : link
In comment 13989451 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13989437 giants#1 said:
It's part of why I don't like the rookie pay scale. There's no allowance for wildly outperforming your draft slot.
Should they then recoup some of the guaranteed money for those that are busts?
RE: RE: 2014 Draft  
mrvax : 6/12/2018 3:10 pm : link
In comment 13989557 Gman11 said:
Quote:

Yeah, Beckham would have to scrape by on a measly $8 million. Maybe we should start a GoFundMe page for him.


Probably made a lot more with endorsements.
RE: don't see anything on Gronk/Brady skipping mandatory minicamp  
robbieballs2003 : 6/12/2018 3:18 pm : link
In comment 13989523 giants#1 said:
Quote:
they did skip some (all?) of the voluntary OTAs though.

David Johnson is skipping minicamp though. Similar situation to Beckham coming off a season ending injury.


Correct. I guess the Pats had their minicamp between their OTAs. Thanks.
RE: RE: RE: 2014 Draft  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/12/2018 3:21 pm : link
In comment 13989562 Gman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 13989451 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13989437 giants#1 said:
It's part of why I don't like the rookie pay scale. There's no allowance for wildly outperforming your draft slot.

Should they then recoup some of the guaranteed money for those that are busts?


How do you justify taking money away from someone who wasn't good enough to play? You did the evaluation. You made the choice to draft him. Why would you be entitled to get money back? Unless it was a case where the player clearly just wasn't trying to succeed, but how often is that the case?
RE: RE: 2014 Draft  
FStubbs : 6/12/2018 6:41 pm : link
In comment 13989470 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In comment 13989437 giants#1 said:


Quote:


Lewan
Mack
Donald

Obviously Beckham is part of that class. Seems like a lot of guys are unhappy with the 5th year options.



The thing is, these guys are the best players (or close to it) in the NFL at their position. Odell fits right in with this group. My guess is that he will be hanging with them if no new contract is in place when camp rolls around.


He'd be with them now, but he essentially didn't play last year so his leverage is weaker.
RE: RE: RE: RE: 2014 Draft  
FStubbs : 6/12/2018 6:43 pm : link
In comment 13989586 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13989562 Gman11 said:


Quote:


In comment 13989451 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13989437 giants#1 said:
It's part of why I don't like the rookie pay scale. There's no allowance for wildly outperforming your draft slot.

Should they then recoup some of the guaranteed money for those that are busts?



How do you justify taking money away from someone who wasn't good enough to play? You did the evaluation. You made the choice to draft him. Why would you be entitled to get money back? Unless it was a case where the player clearly just wasn't trying to succeed, but how often is that the case?


RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: 2014 Draft  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/12/2018 8:21 pm : link
In comment 13989744 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 13989586 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13989562 Gman11 said:


Quote:


In comment 13989451 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13989437 giants#1 said:
It's part of why I don't like the rookie pay scale. There's no allowance for wildly outperforming your draft slot.

Should they then recoup some of the guaranteed money for those that are busts?



How do you justify taking money away from someone who wasn't good enough to play? You did the evaluation. You made the choice to draft him. Why would you be entitled to get money back? Unless it was a case where the player clearly just wasn't trying to succeed, but how often is that the case?





And that was 11 years ago. But it apparently wasn't a secret that Jamarcus Russell hated to do any film study. So that really falls on the team that drafted him.

In 2015, Matt Millen said in a radio interview that he warned former Oakland Raiders owner Al Davis not to draft Russell in 2007. According to Millen, Russell struggled to pay attention during a pre-draft interview in his office during a visit to Detroit which had the No. 2 pick that year to the point where Millen kicked Russell out after he kept looking down at his watch.

"I keep talking to him, I ask him questions and he looks at his watch," Millen said. "I said, 'You got some place you need to be?' And he goes, 'Oh, no, no, no. I'm sorry. Sorry, sir.' So I ask him another question, he looks at his watch and I said, 'You're done, get out of here." Millen said he then told Russell to go to see head coach Rod Marinelli, who later also told Russell to leave his office. "So I'm done, I can't believe what I just witnessed, and so I call Al," Millen said, "I get on the phone and I say, 'Coach, I don't know what you're thinking, but don't take JaMarcus Russell. Don't take Calvin Johnson, but don't take JaMarcus Russell."[17]
RE: I believe NFL players should be  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/12/2018 9:33 pm : link
In comment 13989494 mrvax said:
Quote:
well paid. At the same time, at our jobs, we usually have an agreed to salary and if we don't perform, the owners will be able to let you go. There should be an out available for a player who's just milking it.

Your analogy is ridiculous. In our regular everyday jobs, we can leave whenever we want if someone offers us more money. We're all permanently free agents. Can an NFL player who is under contract put in his two weeks notice and go sign with another team that's willing to pay him more?

The issue with the NFL contracts isn't just that they're non-guaranteed, it's that they're only guaranteed for one of the parties to the agreement.
RE: RE: RE: 2014 Draft  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/12/2018 9:38 pm : link
In comment 13989562 Gman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 13989451 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13989437 giants#1 said:
It's part of why I don't like the rookie pay scale. There's no allowance for wildly outperforming your draft slot.

Should they then recoup some of the guaranteed money for those that are busts?

But by definition, they're different players. It's logically impossible for a player to be both a bust and a player who wildly outperforms his draft slot. Essentially, you're punishing the best players to cover your risk against the worst ones. Any business model that punishes top performers simply because some entirely different people happen to present a risk for underperformance is flawed, IMO.
RE: WTH is Julio Jones holding out for?  
elgoman : 6/13/2018 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13989433 mrvax said:
Quote:
He signed a huge 5 year $72M deal in 2015. He has 2 more years left on it.


Julio is the only reason Ryan is making so much money, so Julio wants his cut.
A lot of the discussion above just re-affirms...  
bw in dc : 6/13/2018 4:22 pm : link
how flawed and one way - pro owner - the current economics are in the NFL.

It’s an indictment on the NFLPA, starting with the way Tagliabue completely rolled Gene Upshawback in ‘93 to the current idiocy under Smith, how stupid the players really are, and how the owners have mastered their craft of constantly pulling the wool over the union’s eyes.

I’m no OBJ fan in terms of his antics. But he’d be a total moron to participate in any of these drills until he gets his compensation adjusted. The risk is too great. Plus, he’s further screwed by this outrageous tool called the franchise tag if he rides the current contract out. So I really get pro player with this stuff despite the chaos it creates within the team.,.

And I say that as someone who thinks OBJ will ultimately be overpaid for his services; and we’d be wiser to draft him.



RE: A lot of the discussion above just re-affirms...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/13/2018 7:37 pm : link
In comment 13990557 bw in dc said:
Quote:
how flawed and one way - pro owner - the current economics are in the NFL.

It’s an indictment on the NFLPA, starting with the way Tagliabue completely rolled Gene Upshawback in ‘93 to the current idiocy under Smith, how stupid the players really are, and how the owners have mastered their craft of constantly pulling the wool over the union’s eyes.

I’m no OBJ fan in terms of his antics. But he’d be a total moron to participate in any of these drills until he gets his compensation adjusted. The risk is too great. Plus, he’s further screwed by this outrageous tool called the franchise tag if he rides the current contract out. So I really get pro player with this stuff despite the chaos it creates within the team.,.

And I say that as someone who thinks OBJ will ultimately be overpaid for his services; and we’d be wiser to draft him.




The whole thing is really gamed in the owner's favor, but the original sin is when star players crossed the line back in the 80s. That's how things got to this point. Now it's just hammer and nail. The only way to re-set the table is a work stoppage.
TTH...  
bw in dc : 6/13/2018 7:57 pm : link
That's really it - shut it down and force the overhaul of the current model.

You have to be willing to kill an entire season and go to the mattresses. Unfortunately, the players have a history of blinking first. And the owners know it.
RE: A lot of the discussion above just re-affirms...  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/13/2018 8:17 pm : link
In comment 13990557 bw in dc said:
Quote:
how flawed and one way - pro owner - the current economics are in the NFL.

It’s an indictment on the NFLPA, starting with the way Tagliabue completely rolled Gene Upshawback in ‘93 to the current idiocy under Smith, how stupid the players really are, and how the owners have mastered their craft of constantly pulling the wool over the union’s eyes.

I’m no OBJ fan in terms of his antics. But he’d be a total moron to participate in any of these drills until he gets his compensation adjusted. The risk is too great. Plus, he’s further screwed by this outrageous tool called the franchise tag if he rides the current contract out. So I really get pro player with this stuff despite the chaos it creates within the team.,.

And I say that as someone who thinks OBJ will ultimately be overpaid for his services; and we’d be wiser to draft him.



Jints Central already did draft him.
Gatorade...  
bw in dc : 6/13/2018 8:27 pm : link
Lol...meant trade him.

If you aren’t going to “overpay” Beckham  
UConn4523 : 6/13/2018 8:30 pm : link
than just don’t give anyone a second contract.
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