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Who really benched Eli Manning? (the truth)

sxdxca : 6/13/2018 1:47 am
This has been a hot topic of debate on this board, and amongst Giant fans for some time.

So I decided to research the topic, by getting to the bottom of this, and going back to the original manuscripts from November of 2017 when this all went down.

Here are some direct quotes from John Mara himself,

and I quote...

"The point was we did not want him on the bench. We wanted him to start the game and play some portion of the game and at some point work the other guys in. Again, it was his decision, which I completely respect, to go with."

"He’s got to play a meaningful part of the game, whether that was half or three quarters or whatever."

"But what I did not expect, and this is my fault, I was probably naïve, I did not expect Eli to react by saying, ‘Go ahead and start the other guys.’ And again, especially after speaking to him today, I completely understand that. But that took me by surprise a little bit and, yeah, maybe I would have handled that a little bit different."

"We’re 2-9. We’re 2-9, okay? I’m embarrassed about that. Nobody’s doing a good job."

"I did, I did have some pause, but then having talked with Jerry about it and accepted the fact that Eli had slept on it overnight and had time to think about it. He and I texted each other, I wanted to talk to him over the phone, but he preferred to do it face to face because I couldn’t get here until today. So yeah, it did give me some pause, but once I realized that he had slept on it overnight and that was his decision, we went ahead with it."

So what did we learn?

While it is true that the Giants benched Eli Manning for the 3rd and 4th quarter, they did not bench him for the 1st and 2nd quarter.

Mara, Reese and management, wanted him starting, they did not want him on the bench, they wanted him keeping his streak alive, and playing a meaningful part of the game.

As Mara said, it was Eli's decision, and he made this decision after sleeping on it all night, this was not a rash decision.

Therefore it was Eli, and Eli Manning alone who willfully benched himself for the 1st half.

It was Eli Manning, who by his own free will and choice ended his own streak.

I believe he let or allowed his emotions to blind him, to the point where his feelings consumed him so intensely that he ended his own streak.

Eli was being paid 21 million dollars, all he had to do was play the first half, let the other guys come in, and none of that media firestorm would have happened.

Mcadoo and Reese would have been let go anyway at the end of the year, and Eli would have kept his steak alive.

But somehow the media, and some of the fanbase has spun this that the Giants are the ones who ended Eli Manning's streak, and that is not the truth.

So down the road, if and when this topic comes up, it was Eli Manning, and Eli alone, who willfully ended his own streak, and benched himself for the first half.

Hope this helps...









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This is really simple...the move could be  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 6/13/2018 2:59 pm : link
understood if it was to play Webb. But to play Geno Smith is absolutely ludicrous and why the fans and media reacted the way they did. If the Giants and Mara did not know that they are a lot stupider than I thought.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Geno's smith  
elgoman : 6/13/2018 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13990451 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13990443 elgoman said:


Quote:




Nobody uses QBR. It's just ESPN bum stat. But you'll find any obscure data to fit your wrong narrative.

You can put up all the rate stats you want, the most important numbers are:

89 QB rating, 80+ PFF rating, 2 TD drives, almost a 3rd. A good showing with a piss poor offense.

You evidently have no idea what you're talking about. You think the RT Wheeler whiffing on a block and allowing a sack = QB Geno Smith's fault. You're in over your head.

And there you go, putting words in my mouth again. I didn't say the Redskins game didn't matter. The Redskins were playing for their jobs, so the game mattered. Arizona mattered too. Eli didn't play well in either game



But in the Redskins game, he led them to two TD drives and won the game. So thats more than what Geno accomplished, and oh yeah Shepard/Engram didnt even play in that game. Even more impressivE!!!!!!

Get lost buddy. Are you Geno's dad? You are all over the place in this thread and you havent even been right on one thing.


The defense shut the Redskins down to 10 points. Eli didn't have anything to do with Darkwa's 75 yard TD. Eli's 2nd TD I'll give him, but it was after a Cousins INT. Overall our offense didn't play well

The only notable thing did Eli threw a pick

he defense shut down the Redskins, b
Engram didnt play in last game  
dep026 : 6/13/2018 3:04 pm : link
Nor did flowers or Khalil Mack neutralizer Bobby hart.

Again, facts. Use them.
Yeah, no  
Bramton1 : 6/13/2018 3:09 pm : link
From everything that was said, this is what I have gathered. I could be vwery wrong, or very right.

1. Mara orders McAdoo and Reese, with the season lost, to start looking some at the other QBs.

2. Reese and McAdoo get permission from Mara to start Eli in the remaining games and then pull him for one of the other QBs. While we all assume this meant Webb, we have no proof on this. Mara expects the pulling to happen based on how the game dictates it. So if it's blowout, make the change. If it's competitive, keep Eli in.

3. Instead, McAdoo and Reese pitch a plan to Eli where he will start the games and get pulled at halftime, regardless of the score.

4. Eli tells McAdoo and Reese the next day that he thinks that plan cheapens the streak, if if they plan to go to Geno or Webb regardless of the score, they might as well just start them.

5. Giants announce that Eli is benched in favor of Geno Smith. Fans go apeshit.

6. McAdoo announces that Webb will remain inactive for the game. Fans correctly assume McAdoo is trying to blame Eli for the season in an effort to save his own skin by proving how effective Geno can be in his offense.

6. Geno plays a so-so game, well at times and lousy at others. Giants lose.

7. McAdoo and Reese fired the next day.
RE: Engram didnt play in last game  
elgoman : 6/13/2018 3:09 pm : link
In comment 13990499 dep026 said:
Quote:
Nor did flowers or Khalil Mack neutralizer Bobby hart.

Again, facts. Use them.


I didn't say any of the above played in the last game. Stop making things up to cover for the fact you've been proven wrong time and time again. You think RTs who give up sacks aren't to blame, except when they give up sacks to Eli. Geno was so loathed by the Jets his former coach signed him to the Chargers. The list of your asinine, unfounded statements are endless.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Bobby Hart  
dep026 : 6/13/2018 3:10 pm : link
In comment 13990483 elgoman said:
Quote:

3. Hart has up-and-down performances. Against the Vikings last year, PFF rated him 77.2, which is a decent grade.


we didnt play the Vikings last year. At this point, you are jsut being an ass.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bobby Hart  
elgoman : 6/13/2018 3:10 pm : link
In comment 13990508 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13990483 elgoman said:


Quote:



3. Hart has up-and-down performances. Against the Vikings last year, PFF rated him 77.2, which is a decent grade.



we didnt play the Vikings last year. At this point, you are jsut being an ass.


I meant 2016. Here you go: https://twitter.com/pff/status/783125968487485440?lang=en
So 2 years ago  
dep026 : 6/13/2018 3:12 pm : link
a guy had an average game, and we are going to use that to prop him up.

So now we have a Geno Smith/Bobby Hart troll.

Awesome. Hart sucked so bad he was thrown off the team before the season ended. But I am sure you have 1 billion reason (none being factully true) on why we should have kept him.
hot damn, dep  
dorgan : 6/13/2018 3:14 pm : link
you enjoy arguing with a fucking rock? Telephone poles? That's what you're engaged in.. You're talking to a fucking rock.
RE: RE: Engram didnt play in last game  
dep026 : 6/13/2018 3:14 pm : link
In comment 13990507 elgoman said:
Quote:
In comment 13990499 dep026 said:


Quote:


Nor did flowers or Khalil Mack neutralizer Bobby hart.

Again, facts. Use them.



I didn't say any of the above played in the last game. Stop making things up to cover for the fact you've been proven wrong time and time again. You think RTs who give up sacks aren't to blame, except when they give up sacks to Eli. Geno was so loathed by the Jets his former coach signed him to the Chargers. The list of your asinine, unfounded statements are endless.


You said Smith played with the same type of players as Eli did against Washington, and thats jsut false. 4 starters who played against Oakland did not play against Washington. SS and EE were the teams leading receivers and both book end tackles were out.

Facts, use them. They didnt even have close to the same type of team in those 2 respective games.
RE: hot damn, dep  
dep026 : 6/13/2018 3:15 pm : link
In comment 13990514 dorgan said:
Quote:
you enjoy arguing with a fucking rock? Telephone poles? That's what you're engaged in.. You're talking to a fucking rock.


I am hoping exposing him to gidie, gary, or eric - they will notice he is a dupe/troll and ban him ASAP.
RE: RE: RE: Engram didnt play in last game  
elgoman : 6/13/2018 3:19 pm : link
In comment 13990515 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13990507 elgoman said:


Quote:


In comment 13990499 dep026 said:


Quote:


Nor did flowers or Khalil Mack neutralizer Bobby hart.

Again, facts. Use them.



I didn't say any of the above played in the last game. Stop making things up to cover for the fact you've been proven wrong time and time again. You think RTs who give up sacks aren't to blame, except when they give up sacks to Eli. Geno was so loathed by the Jets his former coach signed him to the Chargers. The list of your asinine, unfounded statements are endless.



You said Smith played with the same type of players as Eli did against Washington, and thats jsut false. 4 starters who played against Oakland did not play against Washington. SS and EE were the teams leading receivers and both book end tackles were out.

Facts, use them. They didnt even have close to the same type of team in those 2 respective games.


No I didn't. You're arguing against your own strawman. I said:
"Overall Eli played with the same supporting case Geno did: UDFA receivers, turnstile line and Engram."

Overall Eli played the season with the same supporting case as Geno. That's not the same as saying "Smith played with the same type of players as Eli did against Washington".

Stop putting words in my mouth and making stuff up.
RE: Yeah, no  
sxdxca : 6/13/2018 3:27 pm : link
In comment 13990506 Bramton1 said:
Quote:
From everything that was said, this is what I have gathered. I could be vwery wrong, or very right.

1. Mara orders McAdoo and Reese, with the season lost, to start looking some at the other QBs.

2. Reese and McAdoo get permission from Mara to start Eli in the remaining games and then pull him for one of the other QBs. While we all assume this meant Webb, we have no proof on this. Mara expects the pulling to happen based on how the game dictates it. So if it's blowout, make the change. If it's competitive, keep Eli in.

3. Instead, McAdoo and Reese pitch a plan to Eli where he will start the games and get pulled at halftime, regardless of the score.

4. Eli tells McAdoo and Reese the next day that he thinks that plan cheapens the streak, if if they plan to go to Geno or Webb regardless of the score, they might as well just start them.

5. Giants announce that Eli is benched in favor of Geno Smith. Fans go apeshit.

6. McAdoo announces that Webb will remain inactive for the game. Fans correctly assume McAdoo is trying to blame Eli for the season in an effort to save his own skin by proving how effective Geno can be in his offense.

6. Geno plays a so-so game, well at times and lousy at others. Giants lose.

7. McAdoo and Reese fired the next day.


Bramton,

I agree with everything you said except I'll make one adjustment on point #2.

Regardless of the score, at some point into the 3rd qtr Eli was going to sit, so they could see what the other qb's could do on the roster.

A few posters here have made the comment that if the Giants were blowing the other team out, then that would be the right time to sit Eli.

However this is not logical, because the Giants were only averaging 15 points per game.

I would say they had less than a 10% chance of blowing someone out, they were never going to do that.

So therefore in order to give Webb or Smith some valuable playing time, at some point in the 3rd qtr they needed to come in.

People can spin this anyway they want, but the facts are Eli Manning wasn't going to play there game.

It's his choice, and I can respect it, but he decided of his own volition to bench himself for the 1st and 2nd qtr, and willfully end his own streak.

Read the transcripts they are right there.
RE: RE: hot damn, dep  
bw in dc : 6/13/2018 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13990517 dep026 said:
Quote:


I am hoping exposing him to gidie, gary, or eric - they will notice he is a dupe/troll and ban him ASAP.


The guy is taking a strange defense of Geno - definitely. I certainly can't my arms around his defense.

But I don't get this motivation to ban. Why? If you don't find his material interesting, just leave it alone. Ignore it. Instead, you keep coaxing and prolonging the debate. This is a debate website for crissakes. Do you really expect everything to be straight forward and aligned with what you think is reasonable?

This thread is a huge LOL  
crick n NC : 6/13/2018 4:00 pm : link
Good entertainment 👍
Except there is zero substance.....  
Britt in VA : 6/13/2018 4:20 pm : link
Literally nothing has changed on this thread since the first post.
Target practice....  
Britt in VA : 6/13/2018 4:21 pm : link
that's about it.
Hackenburg is available...  
Brown_Hornet : 6/13/2018 4:24 pm : link
...time to kick Eli to the curb.

Britt'll back me up on this one.

SuperBowl!
More interested in who made the decision to fire Coughlin  
TMS : 6/13/2018 4:26 pm : link
and keep Reese and Ross. Think the Mara"s caved to Tisch and the league Somebody will write a book and we will find out the truth on this sooner than later.
RE: More interested in who made the decision to fire Coughlin  
bw in dc : 6/13/2018 4:36 pm : link
In comment 13990561 TMS said:
Quote:
and keep Reese and Ross. Think the Mara"s caved to Tisch and the league Somebody will write a book and we will find out the truth on this sooner than later.


Tisch is largely a passenger at Jints Central. So Mara did this solo. Let’s face it, Coughlin lost his equity with four straight seasons of no playoffs. A change was overdue, especially if you factor in the serendipity that happened winning it all in ‘11.

Remember the infamous snub at the press conference when Coughlin didn’t shake Mara’s hand? That summed it up right there - all Mara. And Coughlin knew it...
Mara fired the wrong guy.  
Britt in VA : 6/13/2018 4:38 pm : link
.
RE: Except there is zero substance.....  
Diver_Down : 6/13/2018 4:45 pm : link
In comment 13990554 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Literally nothing has changed on this thread since the first post.


I mentioned that is always the case with sxdx threads back on page 1.
RE: RE: More interested in who made the decision to fire Coughlin  
Giantology : 6/13/2018 4:53 pm : link
In comment 13990572 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 13990561 TMS said:


Quote:


and keep Reese and Ross. Think the Mara"s caved to Tisch and the league Somebody will write a book and we will find out the truth on this sooner than later.



Tisch is largely a passenger at Jints Central. So Mara did this solo. Let’s face it, Coughlin lost his equity with four straight seasons of no playoffs. A change was overdue, especially if you factor in the serendipity that happened winning it all in ‘11.

Remember the infamous snub at the press conference when Coughlin didn’t shake Mara’s hand? That summed it up right there - all Mara. And Coughlin knew it...


It is amazing the work you do twisting things to fit your narrative. And it wouldn't be a bw post without dropping Jints Central.
Jints Central..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/13/2018 6:10 pm : link
has pretty much morphed to just be Mara now.

Tisch is just "a passenger", Welly is dead, so it pretty much just sums up bw's misguided directive that ownership is incompetent by solely laying it on Mara now.

Such a cute, fucking saying.
RE: Mara fired the wrong guy.  
Go Terps : 6/13/2018 6:22 pm : link
In comment 13990574 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
.


Coughlin absolutely had to go too. Reese should have gone with him.
Yep..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/13/2018 6:25 pm : link
the house cleaning we saw last year came two years too late.

Coughlin, Reese and Ross all needed to go in 2015.
I would like the thank our BBI regulars  
lono801 : 6/13/2018 6:50 pm : link
For the complete dismantling of our new Geno/Hart troll...

It’s been a fantastic read. Job well done for all of you!


I still don’t think Coughlin was the problem. I see it as Reese wanted to make The Giants his team finally...

Why certain coaches were kept and some let go over the past few years...I have no idea. Maybe some coaches were in the Coughlin camp...others on Jerry’s side.

But as another BBI’er put it...let’s hope the story comes out one day...

Something started to stink when they fired Gilbride...

Just my opinion
...  
christian : 6/13/2018 7:00 pm : link
All good things come to and end. When a player is done nature usually does a good job of letting you know. Harder for a coach or front office guy, you have to rely on the record.

Little Bill is the only coach to ever when consecutive Super Bowls more than 3 years apart, and during that "down" swing he went to two others.

Coughlin bouncing back and getting a ring after 4 uncompetitive years would have been unprecedented. At close to 70 it would have been a miracle.

But guys like him and Eli aren't going down without a fight. The corner has to throw in the towel for guys like them. I'm glad Gettleman and Shurmur seem like the kind who can make that tough call.
Forget the idiotic troll  
montanagiant : 6/13/2018 7:10 pm : link
I just want to point one thing out regarding the OP's circular logic that Eli being benched was Eli's fault because he didn't want to be benched.

Does any true fan of this team actually want a QB who agrees to being benched?

That literally has to be the silliest thing I have seen regarding this situation
It's very weird to me that Tisch catches so many stray bullets  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/13/2018 7:34 pm : link
whenever something goes wrong. He's a ghost 98% of the time, but that 2% where he actually appears is met with fire and fury even if he was just buying everyone ice cream. I can't think of one thing he's done that would justify the visceral reaction people have to him ever speaking.
RE: It's very weird to me that Tisch catches so many stray bullets  
christian : 6/13/2018 7:47 pm : link
In comment 13990664 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
whenever something goes wrong. He's a ghost 98% of the time, but that 2% where he actually appears is met with fire and fury even if he was just buying everyone ice cream. I can't think of one thing he's done that would justify the visceral reaction people have to him ever speaking.


Couldn't be that age, injury, complacency got the best of a crew who last had any success in 2011.

Had a to be boogie man Tisch jumping in for shits and giggles.
McAdoo thinking Geno gave the  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/13/2018 7:48 pm : link
Giants a better shot at winning football games than Eli is a fireable offense in it's own right.

God, the 2017 season sucked. I really don't want to rehash it.
I think "The Truth" ....  
short lease : 6/13/2018 8:01 pm : link

is still out there. Some day .....
Just to cut to the chase...  
Vinny from Danbury : 6/13/2018 8:09 pm : link
of this ridiculous thread. sxdxca = elgoman? Sure seems that way. They write the same exact nonsense, and keep trying to back each other up. Typical troll behavior...
look the problem with Geno is not his talent --  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/13/2018 8:09 pm : link
no -- the problem with Geno is what's between his ears

you can argue technique all you want -- but there plenty of evidence that technique alone is not enough to be a good QB -- if you look at his on field play -- you will see a guy who can take command of a team and play well in spurts -- but who makes the most bone head plays at critical moments that take the steam out of everyone around him and then starts downward spiral on the field

He did it on the Jets repeatedly -- he did it with the Giants in practice and on the field -- he is not an NFL caliber QB because he just doesn't have some critical factors that pros need to be winners and lead teams to victory

there is plenty of evidence meanwhile (and this also on tape) that Eli lifts the level of a teams play on the field -- he has done it repeatedly and at a championship level

you just don't place Geno on the field over Eli unless things are desperate and you have no choice. Now, I do subscribe to the McAdoo was desperate at a certain point and he wanted a more mobile QB on the field, yes I do -- but it just goes to show you how bad and one dimensional McAdoo was that we would cling in desperation to Geno when he had a QB like Eli in the fold
RE: RE: RE: More interested in who made the decision to fire Coughlin  
bw in dc : 6/13/2018 8:13 pm : link
In comment 13990584 Giantology said:
Quote:
In comment 13990572 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 13990561 TMS said:


Quote:


and keep Reese and Ross. Think the Mara"s caved to Tisch and the league Somebody will write a book and we will find out the truth on this sooner than later.



Tisch is largely a passenger at Jints Central. So Mara did this solo. Let’s face it, Coughlin lost his equity with four straight seasons of no playoffs. A change was overdue, especially if you factor in the serendipity that happened winning it all in ‘11.

Remember the infamous snub at the press conference when Coughlin didn’t shake Mara’s hand? That summed it up right there - all Mara. And Coughlin knew it...



It is amazing the work you do twisting things to fit your narrative. And it wouldn't be a bw post without dropping Jints Central.


Well, guilty sometimes.

But where here am I shaping something to fit a narrative?
RE: RE: Except there is zero substance.....  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/13/2018 8:20 pm : link
In comment 13990580 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13990554 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Literally nothing has changed on this thread since the first post.



I mentioned that is always the case with sxdx threads back on page 1.

Oh, no question - sxdx is a troll. That shouldn't get lost in the actual discussion.
RE: Bigblue  
Milton : 6/13/2018 8:23 pm : link
In comment 13990335 sxdxca said:
Quote:
Imagine you have a child, who every day he gets to play with his toys for two hours a day, which you bought him.

There is another kid who doesn't have any toys, so you say to your child your still gonna play with your toys, but only for one hour. The next hour I'm gonna let the other kid play with the toys.

Your child says, no, I either get to play with all the toys for two hours, or I dont play with them at all.
How about this instead: imagine you're on your way to a party in the Hollywood Hills, but you get the address wrong and wind up knocking on Scarlett Johansson's door instead. She is completely naked and invites you inside, admonishing you for being late as she helps you out of your clothes. And then it's off to the hot tub in her back yard, where you are greeted by Jennifer Lawrence, Megan Fox, Gal Gadot, Emilia Clarke, and Beyonce, all completely naked and passing around a doobie. As the six of them form a circle around you, Scarlett whispers in your ear, "No need to pace yourself, it's gonna be a long weekend."
Gal Gadot...  
bw in dc : 6/13/2018 8:30 pm : link
Yes, yes, and yes.
RE: McAdoo thinking Geno gave the  
ron mexico : 6/14/2018 7:16 am : link
In comment 13990680 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Giants a better shot at winning football games than Eli is a fireable offense in it's own right.

God, the 2017 season sucked. I really don't want to rehash it.


He didn't think that. He was specifically asked that question and he refused to answer it as asked.
RE: ...  
jcn56 : 6/14/2018 7:36 am : link
In comment 13990653 christian said:
Quote:
All good things come to and end. When a player is done nature usually does a good job of letting you know. Harder for a coach or front office guy, you have to rely on the record.

Little Bill is the only coach to ever when consecutive Super Bowls more than 3 years apart, and during that "down" swing he went to two others.

Coughlin bouncing back and getting a ring after 4 uncompetitive years would have been unprecedented. At close to 70 it would have been a miracle.

But guys like him and Eli aren't going down without a fight. The corner has to throw in the towel for guys like them. I'm glad Gettleman and Shurmur seem like the kind who can make that tough call.


Agreed. I'm not sure why Giants fans felt like the end would never come for these guys, or that it would be a storybook ending. That almost never happens (save for Strahan, and that's partially because he walked).

The Giants were right to dismiss both Coughlin and Reese. They had something that wasn't working, so they went in order - fire the coach, who already had longevity beyond what the normal tenure of a coach in the NFL is, and was 70 years old. If that doesn't solve it, fire the GM, who had more than his fair share of opportunity to solve the problems and didn't.

There'll come a time for Eli as well. Might be after this season. Might be two years from now. Or, we could learn that we're two years overdue. That's not a reflection on Eli, that's life in the NFL.

None of these guys were wronged in any way. If anything, the Giants went the uber patient route and it failed them, in the name of continuity.
RE: RE: ...  
Britt in VA : 6/14/2018 9:13 am : link
In comment 13990861 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13990653 christian said:


Quote:


All good things come to and end. When a player is done nature usually does a good job of letting you know. Harder for a coach or front office guy, you have to rely on the record.

Little Bill is the only coach to ever when consecutive Super Bowls more than 3 years apart, and during that "down" swing he went to two others.

Coughlin bouncing back and getting a ring after 4 uncompetitive years would have been unprecedented. At close to 70 it would have been a miracle.

But guys like him and Eli aren't going down without a fight. The corner has to throw in the towel for guys like them. I'm glad Gettleman and Shurmur seem like the kind who can make that tough call.



Agreed. I'm not sure why Giants fans felt like the end would never come for these guys, or that it would be a storybook ending. That almost never happens (save for Strahan, and that's partially because he walked).

The Giants were right to dismiss both Coughlin and Reese. They had something that wasn't working, so they went in order - fire the coach, who already had longevity beyond what the normal tenure of a coach in the NFL is, and was 70 years old. If that doesn't solve it, fire the GM, who had more than his fair share of opportunity to solve the problems and didn't.

There'll come a time for Eli as well. Might be after this season. Might be two years from now. Or, we could learn that we're two years overdue. That's not a reflection on Eli, that's life in the NFL.

None of these guys were wronged in any way. If anything, the Giants went the uber patient route and it failed them, in the name of continuity.


What's done is done, but I think it could be argued that Tom Coughlin should have been given a chance with the 200 million dollar defensive free agency spending spree, considering it was the defense that was costing us games in his final season.

I think one could argue that Coughlin's offense and the defense we fielded in 2015 could have been a serious contender in 2016.

I think it could be argued that we should have at least had an arrangement in place that was amicable so that Coughlin could have been bumped up to the front office in a position similar to Jacksonville, considering their success after he was hired.

But like I said, it's neither here nor there.
typo  
Britt in VA : 6/14/2018 9:14 am : link
Quote:
Coughlin's offense and the defense we fielded in 2016
RE: RE: RE: ...  
bw in dc : 6/14/2018 10:17 am : link
In comment 13990905 Britt in VA said:
Quote:


I think it could be argued that we should have at least had an arrangement in place that was amicable so that Coughlin could have been bumped up to the front office in a position similar to Jacksonville, considering their success after he was hired.



That isn't a bad thought at all. TC has an exceptional eye for finding WR talent - for example. And he built that first Jags team in '96 from scratch.

The problem would have been the shadow he casts over the new coach. I could have seen that potentially making things uncomfortable with TC lurking. That actually was talked about in Jacksonville when he arrived for round 2 - would he take out Marone for himself? Didn't happen, obviously, but it was a concern...
There were three  
PaulN : 6/14/2018 1:25 pm : link
People with jobs on the line, that is the truth behind all this bullshit. There were two guys looking to put the blame on one guy to save their jobs, Reese, the ballsy bastard that he was wanted to pin the blame on Eli, he didn't draft him, McAdoo was his boy, great job picking him too, so they were in this together to save their jobs and throw our starter under the bus, any other perspective in my opinion is bullshit.

So the two backstabbers lost their jobs to the one guy with integrity. Reese was a horrible GM, he rode EA's coattails, and if this were not true why then could he never get this team back on track, only 1 good season after EA's offensive line was too old, the one season he overspent on a defense in free agency to compensate for one horrible draft after the other. This topic has been covered enough, and needs to be put to rest. The Reese fans were wrong about him, he stunk, and that is why he remains unemployed, now let's hear from the Reese will have a job in 5 minutes crowd.
RE: There were three  
Big Blue '56 : 6/14/2018 1:42 pm : link
In comment 13991198 PaulN said:
Quote:
People with jobs on the line, that is the truth behind all this bullshit. There were two guys looking to put the blame on one guy to save their jobs, Reese, the ballsy bastard that he was wanted to pin the blame on Eli, he didn't draft him, McAdoo was his boy, great job picking him too, so they were in this together to save their jobs and throw our starter under the bus, any other perspective in my opinion is bullshit.

So the two backstabbers lost their jobs to the one guy with integrity. Reese was a horrible GM, he rode EA's coattails, and if this were not true why then could he never get this team back on track, only 1 good season after EA's offensive line was too old, the one season he overspent on a defense in free agency to compensate for one horrible draft after the other. This topic has been covered enough, and needs to be put to rest. The Reese fans were wrong about him, he stunk, and that is why he remains unemployed, now let's hear from the Reese will have a job in 5 minutes crowd.


He did NOT ride EA’s coattails, unless you consider the no-brainer that was Eli, a coattail. Otherwise, whatever draft success EA had was largely due to hiring Reese in 2003(?) as his chief scout, imv. EA was a mediocre, AT BEST, GM. Reese had his faults and screwed the pooch more than not his last bunch of years(injuries notwithstanding), but a coattail rider of EA. Hardly
Accorsi was about an average + GM...  
bw in dc : 6/14/2018 2:44 pm : link
Eli is his legacy. Plus, he was better with his later drafts than the early ones. See Osi, Jacobs, Tuck, Snee, etc.

And without Eli, Reese loses his job much earlier. He was an average - at best - GM. So he did ride Accorsi's coattails as far as I'm concerned.



RE: RE: RE: ...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/14/2018 3:26 pm : link
In comment 13990905 Britt in VA said:
Quote:


I think it could be argued that we should have at least had an arrangement in place that was amicable so that Coughlin could have been bumped up to the front office in a position similar to Jacksonville, considering their success after he was hired.

But like I said, it's neither here nor there.


This sort of thing assumes Coughlin wanted to stay here if he wasn't coaching. Nothing about him indicates he would have accepted having the job taken from him to kick upstairs.
RE: There were three  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/14/2018 3:27 pm : link
In comment 13991198 PaulN said:
Quote:
People with jobs on the line, that is the truth behind all this bullshit. There were two guys looking to put the blame on one guy to save their jobs, Reese, the ballsy bastard that he was wanted to pin the blame on Eli, he didn't draft him, McAdoo was his boy, great job picking him too, so they were in this together to save their jobs and throw our starter under the bus, any other perspective in my opinion is bullshit.

So the two backstabbers lost their jobs to the one guy with integrity. Reese was a horrible GM, he rode EA's coattails, and if this were not true why then could he never get this team back on track, only 1 good season after EA's offensive line was too old, the one season he overspent on a defense in free agency to compensate for one horrible draft after the other. This topic has been covered enough, and needs to be put to rest. The Reese fans were wrong about him, he stunk, and that is why he remains unemployed, now let's hear from the Reese will have a job in 5 minutes crowd.


There are some junk takes in here. Also, find any source that McAdoo was Reese's coach. I bet you can't, because that wasn't the case.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ...  
christian : 6/14/2018 6:41 pm : link
In comment 13991335 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13990905 Britt in VA said:


Quote:




I think it could be argued that we should have at least had an arrangement in place that was amicable so that Coughlin could have been bumped up to the front office in a position similar to Jacksonville, considering their success after he was hired.

But like I said, it's neither here nor there.



This sort of thing assumes Coughlin wanted to stay here if he wasn't coaching. Nothing about him indicates he would have accepted having the job taken from him to kick upstairs.


This is assuming Coughlin would ever willingly give up the reigns and move upstairs. He's not that type of guy -- which is a great quality and why he succeeded.

He only opted for the front office gig when it was clear he wasn't going to ever be a head coach again.

The charade it wasn't going to end with hurt feelings for everyone is Mara's worst mistake. Reese, Coughlin and Manning all are proud guys with 2 rings and none of them were or will go out without a fight.
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