This has been a hot topic of debate on this board, and amongst Giant fans for some time.
So I decided to research the topic, by getting to the bottom of this, and going back to the original manuscripts from November of 2017 when this all went down.
Here are some direct quotes from John Mara himself,
and I quote...
"The point was we did not want him on the bench. We wanted him to start the game and play some portion of the game and at some point work the other guys in. Again, it was his decision, which I completely respect, to go with."
"He’s got to play a meaningful part of the game, whether that was half or three quarters or whatever."
"But what I did not expect, and this is my fault, I was probably naïve, I did not expect Eli to react by saying, ‘Go ahead and start the other guys.’ And again, especially after speaking to him today, I completely understand that. But that took me by surprise a little bit and, yeah, maybe I would have handled that a little bit different."
"We’re 2-9. We’re 2-9, okay? I’m embarrassed about that. Nobody’s doing a good job."
"I did, I did have some pause, but then having talked with Jerry about it and accepted the fact that Eli had slept on it overnight and had time to think about it. He and I texted each other, I wanted to talk to him over the phone, but he preferred to do it face to face because I couldn’t get here until today. So yeah, it did give me some pause, but once I realized that he had slept on it overnight and that was his decision, we went ahead with it."
So what did we learn?
While it is true that the Giants benched Eli Manning for the 3rd and 4th quarter, they did not bench him for the 1st and 2nd quarter.
Mara, Reese and management, wanted him starting, they did not want him on the bench, they wanted him keeping his streak alive, and playing a meaningful part of the game.
As Mara said, it was Eli's decision, and he made this decision after sleeping on it all night, this was not a rash decision.
Therefore it was Eli, and Eli Manning alone who willfully benched himself for the 1st half.
It was Eli Manning, who by his own free will and choice ended his own streak.
I believe he let or allowed his emotions to blind him, to the point where his feelings consumed him so intensely that he ended his own streak.
Eli was being paid 21 million dollars, all he had to do was play the first half, let the other guys come in, and none of that media firestorm would have happened.
Mcadoo and Reese would have been let go anyway at the end of the year, and Eli would have kept his steak alive.
But somehow the media, and some of the fanbase has spun this that the Giants are the ones who ended Eli Manning's streak, and that is not the truth.
So down the road, if and when this topic comes up, it was Eli Manning, and Eli alone, who willfully ended his own streak, and benched himself for the first half.
Hope this helps...
Husband: "No, that's not how it works, just give me a divorce."
Sxdxca: "Husband's fault he asked for divorce!"
That's not the point. That's taking what I said out of the context of the conversation.
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In comment 13990060 Britt in VA said:
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You're going to try and sit there and sell us that Geno Smith and his 1 TD, 200 yard performance against a sh-tty Raiders team is better than Eli put up all year? And you're telling us to WATCH THE GAME?
Did you happen to watch, two weeks later, when Eli put up 3 TD's and over 400 yards on the eventual Superbowl champions with the same handicapped team?
Yeah it is. You're just looking at box stats, which as anyone knows can be misleading. We evaluate QBs by their tap. Geno displayed great footwork, accuracy, arm strength and mobility. Eli didn't display any of the above all year.
So Geno's 200 yard, 1 TD game against the 6-10 Raiders was better than Eli's 400 yard, 3 TD game against the Superbowl Champion Eagles.
Got it.
I didn't say that. I think Eli's Philly game was fantastic, albeit with some caveats. We have to remember that we played them in Week 15 and Philly had already made the playoffs by then. Eli's play against teams with something to play for, like Arizona, was horrid.
I admit I was late to embrace Eli. His career started out tenuously IMO and it hit some low points even during 2007, so I was late to the game, but I grew to appreciate Eli for what he was. A legit franchise QB, often underrated or under appreciated (nationally especially). And a potential Hall of Famer.
But the reaction to his benching has been surprising to me. Grown men crying (with their wives) people who can't get past it.
Just let it go......
and I admit I'm sort of like Sonny from Bronx Tale as it relates to pro athletes, but still surprises me.
You can pretty much swap in Eli Manning here for Mickey Mantle. and change 100k to $22M.
Eli was right. Play to win or sit.
My theory was that McAdoo was angling towards getting Eli out. So he was prefectly OK with breaking news in an insensitive, ill-conceived manner. He thought he was bigger than Eli.
I didn't say that. I think Eli's Philly game was fantastic, albeit with some caveats. We have to remember that we played them in Week 15 and Philly had already made the playoffs by then.
Philly wasnt playing for home field advantage? Really? They coasted that game and lose out on the biggest advantage in pro football?
You are really on point this thread.
Not only was there the mistake on Pugh, but Geno "driving" the team to the red zone once where he actually didn't move the ball after the special teams recovered the bad punt snap.
And then has the gall to say other posters don't know how to understand the game.
Fuck me up the ass with a diseased stick.
So I made a semantic mistake with Pugh and a drive, and suddenly I don't know what I'm talking about. Friend, I also gave a football analysis proving why we're wrong to fault Geno for the redzone fumble. You won't touch that analysis, because you know it's correct, but you'll talk about semantics. LOL
Indecision, the story of Geno Smith.
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I didn't say that. I think Eli's Philly game was fantastic, albeit with some caveats. We have to remember that we played them in Week 15 and Philly had already made the playoffs by then.
Philly wasnt playing for home field advantage? Really? They coasted that game and lose out on the biggest advantage in pro football?
You are really on point this thread.
When Eli played teams we really needed to beat - not teams like late season Philly who didn't have to win - the offense was anemic. That's a caveat worth thinking about. Arizona players had to win to keep their jobs, and shut out Eli. that's why I say, while I love the Philly game, it's not convincing of anything.
Normally I wouldn't respond but in this case I must.
Here is a better illustration that relates appropriately to the situation.
Imagine you have a child, who every day he gets to play with his toys for two hours a day, which you bought him.
There is another kid who doesn't have any toys, so you say to your child your still gonna play with your toys, but only for one hour. The next hour I'm gonna let the other kid play with the toys.
Your child says, no, I either get to play with all the toys for two hours, or I dont play with them at all.
And that's exactly what Eli did. Mara is paying him 22 million a year, whether he plays two quarters or four he gets the same pay, and he said no.
The team was 2-9, mathematically eliminated from playoffs, averaging 15 points a game.
The team with Eli starting went 1-4 the rest of the way.
While it is true his eagles game he played excellent.
His last game against the Redskins he only completed 35% of his throws, passed for 130 yards, and had a 47qb rating, this is not a joke.
And I am an Eli fan, look it up yourself...
You didn't just get a couple things wrong, you willfully made shit up. Saying Geno drove the Giants down the field only to be the victim of poor protection to fumble isn't semantics, it is making up facts. He didn't drive the team towards shit and lost a fumble on a possession gifted to them by the Raiders punter.
Not only did you say Pugh silenced Mack, you then made some ridiculous comment about him signing a massive contract. Mistaking Pugh for Hart is pretty fucking hard to do on a number of levels.
Your whole point is based on the recollection of Geno's play in one game. But your recollection is shit.
You don't see a problem with credibility there? Friend.
When Eli played teams we really needed to beat - not teams like late season Philly who didn't have to win - the offense was anemic. That's a caveat worth thinking about. Arizona players had to win to keep their jobs, and shut out Eli. that's why I say, while I love the Philly game, it's not convincing of anything.
1. Philly needed to keep winning to get homefield. Thats pretty damn important.
2. Arizona players had to win to keep their jobs? Buddy, you are just either braindead, a clown, or a troll. Give it up.
Philly game aint convincing of anything? I guess you know more than Dave Gettleman and Pat Shurmur because they referenced it many times on why Eli still has it.
Keep trying. The next time you get something right, will be your first. And when you do - trust me I will give you props for it.
LOL. I am seriously just shaking my head in astonishment at this point.
"the truth" comment should've just been a red flag that this would be a shitty thread in a long line of them by the sxdxca.
My theory was that McAdoo was angling towards getting Eli out. So he was prefectly OK with breaking news in an insensitive, ill-conceived manner. He thought he was bigger than Eli.
why wait till we were mathematically eliminated then?
Why not take ownership of the decision?
Q: Was this weekend the first time you thought about making this move or did you think about it before then?
A: This was — had a short week last week when we knew we were out of playoff contention. We were out of the mix. That’s the time when you really have to take a look at your roster and make determinations on who you want to evaluate.
Q: You went to Jerry Reese and John Mara after you made this decision independently?
A: We’re all on the same page.
Q: Whose idea was it – do you go to them after the decision is made?
A: We’re all on the same page with the decision.
Link - ( New Window )
Indecision, the story of Geno Smith.
Again, you're wrong and don't know what you're talking about. Here's the redzone strip sack here: https://streamable.com/n0bmw
When Geno hits his drop, nobody is open, Wheeler has whiffled, and Mack is already barrelling on Geno. Geno tries a pump fake to open up space, which works as the HB gets open, but then Geno is stripped before he can throw.
Poor protection, not indecision, is why Geno was strip sacked on this play. When Wheeler, the RT, completely falls to block his man and nobody is open, the QB isn't the blame.
But explain in football terms how Geno is a "quarterback disaster"? I see some fans saying this and I don't get the hate.
Whenever I ask people to show me Geno's footwork, arm, field vision, pocket presence, accuracy, anticipation -- all of which can be gleaned on film--I don't get any answers.
I understand how loyal people are to Eli, but you don't have to insult Geno or any other young QB trying to make it as a Giant to make Eli look better.
Defending Geno Smith?? Just look at gidie's post.
Sums up the pointlessness of the last three hours.
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fumble was absolutely his fault. It was a quick pattern where he pump faked, brought the ball down and just sat in the pocket. The protection wasnt good, but he had the ball in his hands for over 3 seconds.
Indecision, the story of Geno Smith.
Again, you're wrong and don't know what you're talking about. Here's the redzone strip sack here: https://streamable.com/n0bmw
When Geno hits his drop, nobody is open, Wheeler has whiffled, and Mack is already barrelling on Geno. Geno tries a pump fake to open up space, which works as the HB gets open, but then Geno is stripped before he can throw.
Poor protection, not indecision, is why Geno was strip sacked on this play. When Wheeler, the RT, completely falls to block his man and nobody is open, the QB isn't the blame.
Ummm I said he pulled fake and he never moved one step to left or right. Video confirms that. Thanks for proving my point!!!
Mara: “We were and we weren’t. Ben came up with the plan. I initially signed off on the plan. My hope had been to talk to him to try to have a little more flexibility with it.”
We were and we weren't?? Really John? You were and you weren't as the owner of the New York Football Giants for this monumental decision?
And then in an attempt to be coy Mara says he actually did sign off on the plan. But the caveat added was to follow-up with McAdoo to add more flexibility.
So in one of the biggest decisions in the history of the franchise, Mara signs off; but he thinks only to HIMSELF that more flexibility may be needed. Strangely, however, he doesn't follow up with his head coach or GM to add this so called flexibility?
This is Mara's life - running Jints Central. But he's so busy he couldn't find 5 minutes to follow-up with a call to his the management team to re-visit this critical decision? This for a man who is supposedly so precious about protecting the "Giants Way" brand - the so called class organization of the league!
What a complete lie.
At the end of the day, Mara was all in on the McAdoo/Reese plan and knew exactly what was going down. McAdoo and Reese absolutely deserved to be fired. But not with this fake blame conjured up by their duplicitous owner...
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In comment 13990328 dep026 said:
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fumble was absolutely his fault. It was a quick pattern where he pump faked, brought the ball down and just sat in the pocket. The protection wasnt good, but he had the ball in his hands for over 3 seconds.
Indecision, the story of Geno Smith.
Again, you're wrong and don't know what you're talking about. Here's the redzone strip sack here: https://streamable.com/n0bmw
When Geno hits his drop, nobody is open, Wheeler has whiffled, and Mack is already barrelling on Geno. Geno tries a pump fake to open up space, which works as the HB gets open, but then Geno is stripped before he can throw.
Poor protection, not indecision, is why Geno was strip sacked on this play. When Wheeler, the RT, completely falls to block his man and nobody is open, the QB isn't the blame.
Ummm I said he pulled fake and he never moved one step to left or right. Video confirms that. Thanks for proving my point!!!
You are lying by omission. You omitted the fact Wheeler whiffed on his block, which gave Mack a free release and caused the fumble.
If Wheeler does his job and blocks Mack, Geno doesn't fumble. So you are wrong to say Geno is to blame for the fumble. Wheeler is to blame
You are lying by omission. You omitted the fact Wheeler whiffed on his block, which gave Mack a free release and caused the fumble.
If Wheeler does his job and blocks Mack, Geno doesn't fumble. So you are wrong to say Geno is to blame for the fumble. Wheeler is to blame
Nope, not lying. I said the protection wasnt good either. But neither was Geno's play either.
Your 2nd point is just great analysis. If player A blocks his guy, and if Player B gets open, and if Player C throws the ball to player B, who then catches the ball - its a great play.
LOL.
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Geno is a quarterback disaster -- he is expert at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Anyone --- and I mean anyone -- who thinks Geno is just reaching for straws.
But explain in football terms how Geno is a "quarterback disaster"? I see some fans saying this and I don't get the hate.
Whenever I ask people to show me Geno's footwork, arm, field vision, pocket presence, accuracy, anticipation -- all of which can be gleaned on film--I don't get any answers.
1. Jets didnt want him.
2. No one in the offseason after the Jets got rid of him wanted him to start or give him a multi-year contract.
3. The giants had him go against Josh f'n Johnson for the backup.
4. No one in the offseason wanted him as a starter.
Morale of the story. Geno Smith is not a starting caliber in the NFL. sorry, we dont have the break down of every play he every threw a terrible pass.But here are some accuracy stats for you.
185 Yards per game started
26 TDs to 34 INTs/10 fumbles lost
58% compeltion percentage
In what f'n world is that starting material?
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In comment 13990354 gidiefor said:
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Geno is a quarterback disaster -- he is expert at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Anyone --- and I mean anyone -- who thinks Geno is just reaching for straws.
But explain in football terms how Geno is a "quarterback disaster"? I see some fans saying this and I don't get the hate.
Whenever I ask people to show me Geno's footwork, arm, field vision, pocket presence, accuracy, anticipation -- all of which can be gleaned on film--I don't get any answers.
1. Jets didnt want him.
2. No one in the offseason after the Jets got rid of him wanted him to start or give him a multi-year contract.
3. The giants had him go against Josh f'n Johnson for the backup.
4. No one in the offseason wanted him as a starter.
Morale of the story. Geno Smith is not a starting caliber in the NFL. sorry, we dont have the break down of every play he every threw a terrible pass.But here are some accuracy stats for you.
185 Yards per game started
26 TDs to 34 INTs/10 fumbles lost
58% compeltion percentage
In what f'n world is that starting material?
there you go looking at box stats again. How many almost TDs are missing from those numbers????
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You are lying by omission. You omitted the fact Wheeler whiffed on his block, which gave Mack a free release and caused the fumble.
If Wheeler does his job and blocks Mack, Geno doesn't fumble. So you are wrong to say Geno is to blame for the fumble. Wheeler is to blame
Nope, not lying. I said the protection wasnt good either. But neither was Geno's play either.
Your 2nd point is just great analysis. If player A blocks his guy, and if Player B gets open, and if Player C throws the ball to player B, who then catches the ball - its a great play.
LOL.
You are lying by omission (or you just plain don't understand what you're talking about). You said the protection wasn't good, but ultimately blamed Geno holding the ball too long for the fumble. This is not true. Geno has no choice but to hold onto the ball when his read isn't open. Geno rightfully expects Wheeler not to whiff.
If Wheeler does whiff, and the play is over. When Wheeler whiffs and Eli is sacked, you blame Wheeler. When Wheeler whiffs and Brady, Rodgers, Brees and Big Ben are sacked, you blame Wheeler. So Wheeler is to blame for Geno's fumble.
You're intellectually dishonest and bear some kind of hatred for Geno
You didn't just get a couple things wrong, you willfully made shit up. Saying Geno drove the Giants down the field only to be the victim of poor protection to fumble isn't semantics, it is making up facts. He didn't drive the team towards shit and lost a fumble on a possession gifted to them by the Raiders punter.
Not only did you say Pugh silenced Mack, you then made some ridiculous comment about him signing a massive contract. Mistaking Pugh for Hart is pretty fucking hard to do on a number of levels.
Your whole point is based on the recollection of Geno's play in one game. But your recollection is shit.
You don't see a problem with credibility there? Friend.
I made semantic mistakes but the crux of the argument stands strong as ever.
1) The tape shows Geno was the victim of poor protection in both fumbles. Neither fumble was his fault. if you disagree, get the tape and debate it.
2) Bobby Hart, not Pugh, silenced Mack. This is a semantic issue as it doesn't change the substantive part of my argument, which is that Mack was silenced by Hart.
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In comment 13990377 elgoman said:
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You are lying by omission. You omitted the fact Wheeler whiffed on his block, which gave Mack a free release and caused the fumble.
If Wheeler does his job and blocks Mack, Geno doesn't fumble. So you are wrong to say Geno is to blame for the fumble. Wheeler is to blame
Nope, not lying. I said the protection wasnt good either. But neither was Geno's play either.
Your 2nd point is just great analysis. If player A blocks his guy, and if Player B gets open, and if Player C throws the ball to player B, who then catches the ball - its a great play.
LOL.
You are lying by omission (or you just plain don't understand what you're talking about). You said the protection wasn't good, but ultimately blamed Geno holding the ball too long for the fumble. This is not true. Geno has no choice but to hold onto the ball when his read isn't open. Geno rightfully expects Wheeler not to whiff.
1. You have been proven wrong more than any poster on this thread - so using the line I dont know what I am talking about is pretty funny.
2. Geno should have thrown the ball away when first read isnt open.
3. Geno doesnt have a secure handle on the ball because he is not getting hit as he is throwing. He fumbled it while holdign the ball - very bad technique.
Keep arguing for Geno Smith. It's making my day go faster and giving me the laughs!
1 TD
2 Fumbles lost
"A near TD drive"
A phantom drive that ended in a fumble lost
200 yards against a bad defense
Yep. Incredible game.
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In comment 13990381 dep026 said:
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In comment 13990377 elgoman said:
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You are lying by omission. You omitted the fact Wheeler whiffed on his block, which gave Mack a free release and caused the fumble.
If Wheeler does his job and blocks Mack, Geno doesn't fumble. So you are wrong to say Geno is to blame for the fumble. Wheeler is to blame
Nope, not lying. I said the protection wasnt good either. But neither was Geno's play either.
Your 2nd point is just great analysis. If player A blocks his guy, and if Player B gets open, and if Player C throws the ball to player B, who then catches the ball - its a great play.
LOL.
You are lying by omission (or you just plain don't understand what you're talking about). You said the protection wasn't good, but ultimately blamed Geno holding the ball too long for the fumble. This is not true. Geno has no choice but to hold onto the ball when his read isn't open. Geno rightfully expects Wheeler not to whiff.
1. You have been proven wrong more than any poster on this thread - so using the line I dont know what I am talking about is pretty funny.
2. Geno should have thrown the ball away when first read isnt open.
3. Geno doesnt have a secure handle on the ball because he is not getting hit as he is throwing. He fumbled it while holdign the ball - very bad technique.
Keep arguing for Geno Smith. It's making my day go faster and giving me the laughs!
1 TD
2 Fumbles lost
"A near TD drive"
A phantom drive that ended in a fumble lost
200 yards against a bad defense
Yep. Incredible game.
1. Not true. Saying I mentioned Hart rather than Pugh isn't "disproving" anything I say.
2. No, Wheeler shouldn't have whiffed and caused the Geno fumble. You and many others blame Wheeler for whiffing if Eli is under center. Anyone with a brain blames for the RT for missing his block
3. Geno's technique is fine. That's how every QB looks when they're about to throw. You don't know what you're talking about so stop talking.
89 QB rating, 80+ PFF rating, 2 TD drives, almost a 3rd. A good showing with a piss poor offense,
I’m sure Eli would be the first to admit to his port play last year and would never throw his team mates under the bus but did anyone see yesterday the spark in his eye when asked about having obj back Barkley and most importantly an improved line protecting him? That look alone said a lot.
I think we see a reinvigorated Eli Manning this season. I can’t wait for the Eli Manning finger to the rest of the league tour begins
You don't even know that a RT whiffing on their block is the RT's fault, so you're not in any position to judge Hart's play. You think a QB who gets a DE slamming into him 1 sec after hitting drop step is at fault lol
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In comment 13990400 elgoman said:
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In comment 13990381 dep026 said:
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In comment 13990377 elgoman said:
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You are lying by omission. You omitted the fact Wheeler whiffed on his block, which gave Mack a free release and caused the fumble.
If Wheeler does his job and blocks Mack, Geno doesn't fumble. So you are wrong to say Geno is to blame for the fumble. Wheeler is to blame
Nope, not lying. I said the protection wasnt good either. But neither was Geno's play either.
Your 2nd point is just great analysis. If player A blocks his guy, and if Player B gets open, and if Player C throws the ball to player B, who then catches the ball - its a great play.
LOL.
You are lying by omission (or you just plain don't understand what you're talking about). You said the protection wasn't good, but ultimately blamed Geno holding the ball too long for the fumble. This is not true. Geno has no choice but to hold onto the ball when his read isn't open. Geno rightfully expects Wheeler not to whiff.
1. You have been proven wrong more than any poster on this thread - so using the line I dont know what I am talking about is pretty funny.
2. Geno should have thrown the ball away when first read isnt open.
3. Geno doesnt have a secure handle on the ball because he is not getting hit as he is throwing. He fumbled it while holdign the ball - very bad technique.
Keep arguing for Geno Smith. It's making my day go faster and giving me the laughs!
1 TD
2 Fumbles lost
"A near TD drive"
A phantom drive that ended in a fumble lost
200 yards against a bad defense
Yep. Incredible game.
\
1. Not true. Saying I mentioned Hart rather than Pugh isn't "disproving" anything I say.
2. No, Wheeler shouldn't have whiffed and caused the Geno fumble. You and many others blame Wheeler for whiffing if Eli is under center. Anyone with a brain blames for the RT for missing his block
3. Geno's technique is fine. That's how every QB looks when they're about to throw. You don't know what you're talking about so stop talking.
89 QB rating, 80+ PFF rating, 2 TD drives, almost a 3rd. A good showing with a piss poor offense,
Curious why you didnt bring up his QBR rating? Cause it sucked?
1 TD
2 fumbles lost
Best play was a result of a horrendous throw.
200 yards passing
red zone turnover
Yep, I dont know what I am talking about - but you sure as hell do...haha
Can you explain again how the Arizona game where they were out of the playoffs mattered but the Redskins game didnt. And how the Eagles had nothing to play for except for HOME FIELD Advantage again? I need more laughs.
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didnt stop shit all year.
You don't even know that a RT whiffing on their block is the RT's fault, so you're not in any position to judge Hart's play. You think a QB who gets a DE slamming into him 1 sec after hitting drop step is at fault lol
1. It was 3 seconds
2. Hart was cut BEFORE THE SEASON ENDED.
3. Hart sucks more donkey balls than Geno Smith.
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In comment 13990410 dep026 said:
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In comment 13990400 elgoman said:
Quote:
In comment 13990381 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13990377 elgoman said:
Quote:
You are lying by omission. You omitted the fact Wheeler whiffed on his block, which gave Mack a free release and caused the fumble.
If Wheeler does his job and blocks Mack, Geno doesn't fumble. So you are wrong to say Geno is to blame for the fumble. Wheeler is to blame
Nope, not lying. I said the protection wasnt good either. But neither was Geno's play either.
Your 2nd point is just great analysis. If player A blocks his guy, and if Player B gets open, and if Player C throws the ball to player B, who then catches the ball - its a great play.
LOL.
You are lying by omission (or you just plain don't understand what you're talking about). You said the protection wasn't good, but ultimately blamed Geno holding the ball too long for the fumble. This is not true. Geno has no choice but to hold onto the ball when his read isn't open. Geno rightfully expects Wheeler not to whiff.
1. You have been proven wrong more than any poster on this thread - so using the line I dont know what I am talking about is pretty funny.
2. Geno should have thrown the ball away when first read isnt open.
3. Geno doesnt have a secure handle on the ball because he is not getting hit as he is throwing. He fumbled it while holdign the ball - very bad technique.
Keep arguing for Geno Smith. It's making my day go faster and giving me the laughs!
1 TD
2 Fumbles lost
"A near TD drive"
A phantom drive that ended in a fumble lost
200 yards against a bad defense
Yep. Incredible game.
\
1. Not true. Saying I mentioned Hart rather than Pugh isn't "disproving" anything I say.
2. No, Wheeler shouldn't have whiffed and caused the Geno fumble. You and many others blame Wheeler for whiffing if Eli is under center. Anyone with a brain blames for the RT for missing his block
3. Geno's technique is fine. That's how every QB looks when they're about to throw. You don't know what you're talking about so stop talking.
89 QB rating, 80+ PFF rating, 2 TD drives, almost a 3rd. A good showing with a piss poor offense,
Curious why you didnt bring up his QBR rating? Cause it sucked?
1 TD
2 fumbles lost
Best play was a result of a horrendous throw.
200 yards passing
red zone turnover
Yep, I dont know what I am talking about - but you sure as hell do...haha
Can you explain again how the Arizona game where they were out of the playoffs mattered but the Redskins game didnt. And how the Eagles had nothing to play for except for HOME FIELD Advantage again? I need more laughs.
Nobody uses QBR. It's just ESPN bum stat. But you'll find any obscure data to fit your wrong narrative.
You can put up all the rate stats you want, the most important numbers are:
89 QB rating, 80+ PFF rating, 2 TD drives, almost a 3rd. A good showing with a piss poor offense.
You evidently have no idea what you're talking about. You think the RT Wheeler whiffing on a block and allowing a sack = QB Geno Smith's fault. You're in over your head.
And there you go, putting words in my mouth again. I didn't say the Redskins game didn't matter. The Redskins were playing for their jobs, so the game mattered. Arizona mattered too. Eli didn't play well in either game
And there you go, putting words in my mouth again. I didn't say the Redskins game didn't matter. The Redskins were playing for their jobs, so the game mattered. Arizona mattered too. Eli didn't play well in either game [/quote]
This is another area where I think you lack credibility. You say Geno played well because you have to take into account the supporting cast. Eli had the exact same cast and yet you say he played poorly. Your first argument undercuts your second statement completely.
The fumble is on Wheeler because he whiffed and allowed a sack. Geno is like any other QB. QBs routinely get strip sacked when they are into their motion and get hit. Eli routinely fumbled this way last year - and none of you blamed him. So why are you blaming Geno?
Nobody uses QBR. It's just ESPN bum stat. But you'll find any obscure data to fit your wrong narrative.
You can put up all the rate stats you want, the most important numbers are:
89 QB rating, 80+ PFF rating, 2 TD drives, almost a 3rd. A good showing with a piss poor offense.
You evidently have no idea what you're talking about. You think the RT Wheeler whiffing on a block and allowing a sack = QB Geno Smith's fault. You're in over your head.
And there you go, putting words in my mouth again. I didn't say the Redskins game didn't matter. The Redskins were playing for their jobs, so the game mattered. Arizona mattered too. Eli didn't play well in either game
But in the Redskins game, he led them to two TD drives and won the game. So thats more than what Geno accomplished, and oh yeah Shepard/Engram didnt even play in that game. Even more impressivE!!!!!!
Get lost buddy. Are you Geno's dad? You are all over the place in this thread and you havent even been right on one thing.
And there you go, putting words in my mouth again. I didn't say the Redskins game didn't matter. The Redskins were playing for their jobs, so the game mattered. Arizona mattered too. Eli didn't play well in either game
This is another area where I think you lack credibility. You say Geno played well because you have to take into account the supporting cast. Eli had the exact same cast and yet you say he played poorly. Your first argument undercuts your second statement completely. [/quote]
Eli didnt have EE or SS against Washington in the last game. This is fact. And he still led them to as many TDs. Even though they played ahead the whole game. Geno got a garbage time TD. Woo hoo! Geno's dad wouldnt understand this.
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then I can see the sack being Wheeler's fault, but the fumble is the ball directly leaving Smith's hand. Not sure how you can blame the fumble on Wheeler. Just because his man came through doesn't mean that the ball also goes to the ground. This has been pointed out with Eli very often.
The fumble is on Wheeler because he whiffed and allowed a sack. Geno is like any other QB. QBs routinely get strip sacked when they are into their motion and get hit. Eli routinely fumbled this way last year - and none of you blamed him. So why are you blaming Geno?
And I simply don't buy the thesis that sack = fumble. The QB absolutely has a role in whether the ball is retained or not. You're being ridiculous, IMO.
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then I can see the sack being Wheeler's fault, but the fumble is the ball directly leaving Smith's hand. Not sure how you can blame the fumble on Wheeler. Just because his man came through doesn't mean that the ball also goes to the ground. This has been pointed out with Eli very often.
The fumble is on Wheeler because he whiffed and allowed a sack. Geno is like any other QB. QBs routinely get strip sacked when they are into their motion and get hit. Eli routinely fumbled this way last year - and none of you blamed him. So why are you blaming Geno?
Actually, a lot of morons here talked about Eli's penchant for fumbling. I don't blame Geno for the fumbles because I've stated all along it's the line.
And there you go, putting words in my mouth again. I didn't say the Redskins game didn't matter. The Redskins were playing for their jobs, so the game mattered. Arizona mattered too. Eli didn't play well in either game
This is another area where I think you lack credibility. You say Geno played well because you have to take into account the supporting cast. Eli had the exact same cast and yet you say he played poorly. Your first argument undercuts your second statement completely. [/quote]
My argument doesn't contradict. Although Eli did play with the same talent-depleted squad (injuried), Eli's overall play--his accuracy, pocket presence, anticipation--was not good. Even if a QB has a poor supporting case, you can watch his tendencies and see if he hits certain benchmarks. Even if you go Drew Brees a poor supporting case, his accuracy and anticipation will stand out as exceptional.
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In comment 13990443 elgoman said:...
And there you go, putting words in my mouth again. I didn't say the Redskins game didn't matter. The Redskins were playing for their jobs, so the game mattered. Arizona mattered too. Eli didn't play well in either game
This is another area where I think you lack credibility. You say Geno played well because you have to take into account the supporting cast. Eli had the exact same cast and yet you say he played poorly. Your first argument undercuts your second statement completely.
My argument doesn't contradict. Although Eli did play with the same talent-depleted squad (injuried), Eli's overall play--his accuracy, pocket presence, anticipation--was not good. Even if a QB has a poor supporting case, you can watch his tendencies and see if he hits certain benchmarks. Even if you go Drew Brees a poor supporting case, his accuracy and anticipation will stand out as exceptional. [/quote]
Eli didn’t play with the same supporting cast against Washington.
Use some facts buddy. It helps your argument.
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In comment 13990354 gidiefor said:
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Geno is a quarterback disaster -- he is expert at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Anyone --- and I mean anyone -- who thinks Geno is just reaching for straws.
But explain in football terms how Geno is a "quarterback disaster"? I see some fans saying this and I don't get the hate.
Whenever I ask people to show me Geno's footwork, arm, field vision, pocket presence, accuracy, anticipation -- all of which can be gleaned on film--I don't get any answers.
1. Jets didnt want him.
2. No one in the offseason after the Jets got rid of him wanted him to start or give him a multi-year contract.
3. The giants had him go against Josh f'n Johnson for the backup.
4. No one in the offseason wanted him as a starter.
Morale of the story. Geno Smith is not a starting caliber in the NFL. sorry, we dont have the break down of every play he every threw a terrible pass.But here are some accuracy stats for you.
185 Yards per game started
26 TDs to 34 INTs/10 fumbles lost
58% compeltion percentage
In what f'n world is that starting material?
1. Jets are idiots. They signed Ryan Fitzpatrick who achieved nothing. Josh McCown, who achieved nothing. Neither Foles nor Keenum were signed. The list goes on. NFL GMs can be idiots. Lynn, the Chargers coach, signed Geno. So obviously some Jets staff did like Geno.
2. See above.
3. And Geno beat out Josh Johnson, Davis Webb before benching Eli. That says a lot about Geno, I think. It also says a lot about the other QBs
4. No one last offseason wanted Foles or Keenum as starter, yet both are starters. We already addressed these arguments. NFL GMs make mistakes all the time.
Moral of the story, NFL GMs make mistakes. Doesn't necessarily say anything about GM, just like it didn't say anything about Foles or Keenum. If Geno was so bad on the Jets, a former Jets coach wouldn't have signed him on the Chargers.
The rate stats you give are mostly games where Geno played with the worst weapons in the league. if you look at Keenum's stats before last year, his look similar.