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Article illustrating how the OL was a fractured unit in 2017

Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/13/2018 8:09 am
Quote:
“There were a lot of things going on last year,’’ Ellison said of the 2017 offensive line.

Ereck Flowers starting to give Giants a reason to hope - ( New Window )
Eh,  
Gman11 : 6/13/2018 8:30 am : link
maybe I'm wrong, but I find it hard to believe that the reason why a guy can't block the man in front of him is because he didn't eat lunch with the other linemen.
Here comes  
GiantsRage2007 : 6/13/2018 8:32 am : link
The Drew Rosenhaus spin machine....

Who knows if it will amount to improvement on the field  
j_rud : 6/13/2018 8:33 am : link
but we've had a few indications that there has been a huge shift in the culture and attitude around this team. Its been refreshing. Last year was tough not only bc of the losing, but bc there appeared to be quite a few shitbirds in that locker rikm. It was an easy team to dislike. Hopefully thats in the past.
Yeah but...  
trueblueinpw : 6/13/2018 8:41 am : link
Agree with above, that where Flowers sits won’t have much impact on his play on the field. But, here’s another article which demonstrates just what a shit show the Giants had become under McAdoo and JR. I think every single player will be better under this new regime.
RE: Eh,  
robbieballs2003 : 6/13/2018 8:42 am : link
In comment 13990006 Gman11 said:
Quote:
maybe I'm wrong, but I find it hard to believe that the reason why a guy can't block the man in front of him is because he didn't eat lunch with the other linemen.


Listen to any athlete and they will tell you how this game is more mental than physical. Yes, not eating lunch together does not mean your OL will fail. However, when you see an OL have so many mistakes it all goes together. If you are in a situation where you have to save a random person or you have to save your son/daughter you better believe that there will be a greater attachment to that person you have developed a relationship with. Same goes for a team. Football is the ultimate team sport and having that connection mentally with your teammates does help. It also allows you to talk about different defensive fronts and how to handle them.

I played CB and S for years. When I played safety I had to know exactly who was in front of me in terms of my LBs and DE. I knew their personalities and their mentality. I knew what types of players they were. I knew their strengths and weaknesses and it allowed me to play better because I knew which players would get the job done in front of me and how they would do it. It allowed me to focus on different areas. Some were better run defenders and allowed me to stay a little deeper. Some were better pass rushers which meant I needed to creep a little closer to the line of scrimmage in case I had to help out in the run game.

Learning is an ongoing process with no end. That is why you hear Eli asking Webb questions because Webb has experience in certain offenses that Eli has not been in.

So, eating lunch by itself doesn't stop an OL from succeeding but not wanting to sit next to your position group and continue to learn does mean something as well as not developing those relationships.
no shit ...  
Csonka : 6/13/2018 9:17 am : link
“If I wouldn’t have known he played left tackle last year, I would have assumed [right tackle] was his natural position, because he looks good in it right away,’’ Hernandez said.

many here said he was a RT back in 2015.
RE: Eh,  
regulator : 6/13/2018 9:21 am : link
In comment 13990006 Gman11 said:
Quote:
maybe I'm wrong, but I find it hard to believe that the reason why a guy can't block the man in front of him is because he didn't eat lunch with the other linemen.


I'm not going to say you're flat-out wrong, but this is a pretty gross oversimplification of OL play. There's so much more to that game in particular than what the average fan sees on the field.
can't say how much it plays  
bc4life : 6/13/2018 9:39 am : link
into on field performance, but certainly a symptom or sign that something was amiss with the chemistry. I remember the Seubert & co. used to have a thing after every game, post game tailgate if I remember correctly.
What I Don’t Get  
Samiam : 6/13/2018 9:46 am : link
Last year coming out of training camp, the Giants had the makings of an adequate OL. Flowers-Jerry -Richburg-Fluker-Pugh. They would not have been world beaters and there was little or no depth but it would have been way better than the OL that started the season. What I don’t get is how the coaches did not see how bad Bobby Hart was. It’s hard for me to believe that Hart even held his own in practice. Whoever went against him should have destroyed him. How McAdoo continued to start him is inexplicable and I think he was so bad, they had no chance.
what about  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/13/2018 9:55 am : link
2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016?
Most great OL's aren't made up of ....  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/13/2018 10:06 am : link
5 excellent athletes. They thrive on the chemistry. We saw that in the lines for our SB runs, whether it was the Suburbanites or the OL in 2007 and 2011.

Sure, some of the guys are very good, but it was more about how they operated as a cohesive group more times than not.

I feel like the in recent years didn't build a cohesive unit. Whether it wasn't a focus on chemistry or just picking the wrong type player to mesh together, I don't know.
It is nice to see  
Jay on the Island : 6/13/2018 10:07 am : link
that Flowers looks natural on the right side already. While we all knew that RT is a better fit for his skill set it usually takes a while for players to get adjusted to the other side as they are using their opposite hand and lead foot.
RE: Most great OL's aren't made up of ....  
Jay on the Island : 6/13/2018 10:09 am : link
In comment 13990112 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
5 excellent athletes. They thrive on the chemistry. We saw that in the lines for our SB runs, whether it was the Suburbanites or the OL in 2007 and 2011.

Sure, some of the guys are very good, but it was more about how they operated as a cohesive group more times than not.

I feel like the in recent years didn't build a cohesive unit. Whether it wasn't a focus on chemistry or just picking the wrong type player to mesh together, I don't know.

You're right, cohesion can help to overcome a lack of talent or athleticism. Diehl Seubert O'Hara Snee and McKenzie weren't the most athletic group but they were outstanding because they played as a cohesive unit. Snee was the only player on that line who was a good athlete.
If Flowers steps right in  
joeinpa : 6/13/2018 10:12 am : link
And shines at left tackle immediately, that would really speak to the stubbornness/ incompetence of the previous staff.
Based  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/13/2018 10:15 am : link
on this article and other previous reports, it appears the OL was divided into two camps who really didn't like each other.
Gettleman  
Andy in Boston : 6/13/2018 10:30 am : link
has done a good job of getting to the bottom of the locker room/personality issues. McAdoo and Reese were obviously clueless around this stuff.
And it all started after  
NikkiMac : 6/13/2018 10:38 am : link
Richburg started mouthing off I believe...........
This is definitely bad - but is this news?  
jcn56 : 6/13/2018 10:39 am : link
I thought all of this came out after Hart was cut, and the team basically leaked that Flowers was benched and nearly got the axe himself?
Geez....  
mittenedman : 6/13/2018 10:48 am : link
Quote:
Last year’s line was not close. Flowers and Bobby Hart sat together on one side of the locker room, surrounded by defensive players. Center Weston Richburg was on the same side of the room as Hart and Flowers but isolated from all the other offensive linemen. Justin Pugh, John Jerry and Brett Jones were grouped together on the other side of the room. The group was fractured, did not enjoy socializing together.


WTF? Why....? The more you hear about McAdoo's Giants, the worse it gets.
RE: And it all started after  
ryanmkeane : 6/13/2018 10:56 am : link
In comment 13990148 NikkiMac said:
Quote:
Richburg started mouthing off I believe...........

That's what I was thinking. Could be totally wrong but Richburg started making comments years back about "my offensive line" and guys that "weren't doing what he was doing" etc etc...that probably rubbed some guys the wrong way. And Richburg kind of always seemed like he wasn't the leader of the OL.
RE: Most great OL's aren't made up of ....  
njm : 6/13/2018 10:57 am : link
In comment 13990112 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
5 excellent athletes. They thrive on the chemistry. We saw that in the lines for our SB runs, whether it was the Suburbanites or the OL in 2007 and 2011.

Sure, some of the guys are very good, but it was more about how they operated as a cohesive group more times than not.

I feel like the in recent years didn't build a cohesive unit. Whether it wasn't a focus on chemistry or just picking the wrong type player to mesh together, I don't know.


Agree with all you said but would add the injuries also create problems with forming a cohesive group.
I  
mitch300 : 6/13/2018 11:05 am : link
just want to see improvement. The past doesn't matter anymore.
RE: Yeah but...  
short lease : 6/13/2018 11:18 am : link
In comment 13990025 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
Agree with above, that where Flowers sits won’t have much impact on his play on the field. But, here’s another article which demonstrates just what a shit show the Giants had become under McAdoo and JR. I think every single player will be better under this new regime.


+1
Cohesion on the offensive line  
Stu11 : 6/13/2018 11:29 am : link
might just be the most important variable on a team. Offensive line play is not just about "blocking the man in front of you". This is not sandlot ball. You have guys pulling and filling gaps. It may not be about eating lunch together, but you damn well better trust the guy next to you when its time to slide and shift and react to different looks and blitzes. Being on the same page means everything to an O-line.
Hope Flowers plays well this year  
JerseyCityJoe : 6/13/2018 11:34 am : link
However, its tough to feel optimistic about a guy the Giants could not trade for a stick of gum.
I'll wait until the pads are on, and some others team DE is  
PatersonPlank : 6/13/2018 12:26 pm : link
playing in front of him, before I make any judgement.
I think Flowers felt that he was being blamed for the fact that  
GeofromNJ : 6/13/2018 12:48 pm : link
Eli is essentially an immobile quarterback. When he was asked to move to RT, he saw that as a direct hit on his wallet. LT's are paid more than RT's. Moreover, because he would be new to RT, he would not immediately succeed which would further impact his contract. I think the Giants' attempt to trade him was in part an attempt to alert him to the fact that his opinion of himself was unrealistic and for the sake of his career, he should move to RT.
It's obvious they didn't function as a unit last year  
RobCarpenter : 6/13/2018 1:23 pm : link
and every OL is only as good as its weakest link. All four players can be doing a great job and if one guy screws up the play can blow up.

I'm always surprised that these articles about the OL never seem to mention the fact that Shurmur himself was an OL player for Michigan State. And he oversaw a complete rebuild of that OL in Minnesota. If anyone knows what's needed for an effective OL, it's him.

RE: This is definitely bad - but is this news?  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/13/2018 4:08 pm : link
In comment 13990150 jcn56 said:
Quote:
I thought all of this came out after Hart was cut, and the team basically leaked that Flowers was benched and nearly got the axe himself?


I have seen this over and over again this offseason. Flowers got lumped in with Hart.

David Gettleman came out and said that Flowers was hurt and that is why he was not playing the final game and that the first report was false.

I have no idea why he of all people would have lied about that.

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