I'm in favor of trying to get by from within. Let's get some more bats going and slug the team to some wins, while keeping the pressure off whatever guys they bring up to pitch.
I don't really want see them trade some top prospects away, certainly not for a mid level type guy. If there's a bona fide Ace available that's not a rental, that's a different story but I'm not sure that guy is out there.
Not because I think their minor league pitchers are a lock or anything, but because I want them to keep a long term perspective. This team's window is just opening. There's no reason to make a panicky overpay for a pitcher.
Not because I think their minor league pitchers are a lock or anything, but because I want them to keep a long term perspective. This team's window is just opening. There's no reason to make a panicky overpay for a pitcher.
Frazier and Adams plus mid tier is not giving up the future. We still have Sheffield and Florial for the future. Plus we add a much needed arm for this years run.
Last thread got deleted, but thanks for the link before, Kyle - now I know who Johnny Lasagna is! There were also a lot of points in there that illustrate why I have now found myself here.
But I also don't see the point in cashing in their best trade chip, Frazier, in a deal for an just-okay pitcher just because starting pitching is thin right now.
Right now the trade market for pitchers is awful. It's going to be hard for Cashman to make a quality deal here.
I think if we were 6 games up in the standings and looking like we're walking away with the division, i'd be more inclined to give up big prospects for a pitcher.
We could win 100 games this year and lose a one and done game in the wild card. I think it's too risky to mortgage the future on a pitcher when it's not even guaranteed we're playing in the Divisional round.
I think if we were 6 games up in the standings and looking like we're walking away with the division, i'd be more inclined to give up big prospects for a pitcher.
We could win 100 games this year and lose a one and done game in the wild card. I think it's too risky to mortgage the future on a pitcher when it's not even guaranteed we're playing in the Divisional round.
It's insane to me that a team could win 100+ games and have to play a play-in game. To sustain a level of success throughout the entire course of a season like that and then be in a position where one down night for your offense or SP means you're out of the postseason entirely is fucking crazy. I
I understand the idea that they want to place a premium on winning the division - but BOS/NYY are the two best teams in the AL and really in baseball right now. For one of those two teams to have to win a play in game just to be a part of the postseason is something that just shouldn't happen
Beyond that, you have to burn your ace in that game. So, even if the Yanks win it - it means they can't use Severino in game one of the ALDS, and that carryover effect is equally shitty.
I like the 2nd wildcard but it should be the top 3 teams get into the divisional round and the next 2 records win the wildcard. If 2 of the top 3 are in the same division, so be it. You want your best teams playing when it matters most.
and its 2 weeks into June and they are yet to lose 20 games.
I love the idea of patience and not destroying the farm to win now, but there's no guarantee any future team ever plays as well as 43-19 to start the year. I'd hate to see us not "go for it" during a season where you are top 1st 2nd or 3rd teams in league.
We need top/mid rotation pitcher. Make a move to secure that. Don't empty the farm but don't just say "hey lets see what these kids can do" either.
very possible you can have 2 teams with 100+ wins playing in the WC game. Yanks.red sox,astros and mariners. Yet Cleveland might not win 90 games and get in. Crazy.
And I don't think there will be any realistic options for a truly top of the rotation pitcher. The Mets aren't going to trade DeGrom to the Yankees for anything less than half the farm system. I have no idea if the Rays would even trade Snell at all. Hamels isn't anything special at this point. Neither is Archer. Fulmer is regressing big time. Danny Duffy has been horrendous this year. Patrick Corbin's sudden loss of velocity is scary, and anyway the D-backs will contend for the NL West title so a deal is unlikely anyway. Happ would require an overpay.
I just have a lot of trouble seeing realistic trade options that will be worth the price.
Not because I think their minor league pitchers are a lock or anything, but because I want them to keep a long term perspective. This team's window is just opening. There's no reason to make a panicky overpay for a pitcher.
This. I'm not an over-the-top prospect hugger, but the imperative should be to maximize value. Frittering away legit prospects for marginal upgrades is not maximizing value.
Last thread got deleted, but thanks for the link before, Kyle - now I know who Johnny Lasagna is! There were also a lot of points in there that illustrate why I have now found myself here.
Yeah realized after that the Mets aspect of the column was sort of pouring salt in the wound. My bad! Was just trying to introduce you to Johnny Lasagna
And I don't think there will be any realistic options for a truly top of the rotation pitcher. The Mets aren't going to trade DeGrom to the Yankees for anything less than half the farm system. I have no idea if the Rays would even trade Snell at all. Hamels isn't anything special at this point. Neither is Archer. Fulmer is regressing big time. Danny Duffy has been horrendous this year. Patrick Corbin's sudden loss of velocity is scary, and anyway the D-backs will contend for the NL West title so a deal is unlikely anyway. Happ would require an overpay.
I just have a lot of trouble seeing realistic trade options that will be worth the price.
Pretty spot on post and I totally agree. The only guy that might be remotely possible would be Bumgarner but I really don't think the Giants move him even if they fall out of it. Possible but not very likely IMO.
So what's left? Not much and nothing I can see worth giving much up for which is why I'm all for seeing how they do from within.
And I don't think there will be any realistic options for a truly top of the rotation pitcher. The Mets aren't going to trade DeGrom to the Yankees for anything less than half the farm system. I have no idea if the Rays would even trade Snell at all. Hamels isn't anything special at this point. Neither is Archer. Fulmer is regressing big time. Danny Duffy has been horrendous this year. Patrick Corbin's sudden loss of velocity is scary, and anyway the D-backs will contend for the NL West title so a deal is unlikely anyway. Happ would require an overpay.
I just have a lot of trouble seeing realistic trade options that will be worth the price.
Someone called into the Kay show and suggested Evoldi. Kay mentioned that Cashman may have to think outside the box and that may be someone they look at. I have no idea if it is a possibility, or how well he's pitching.
As ridiculous as some of these trade proposals have been, anything to do with Bumgarner is the most ridiculous of all. Expecting the the Giants to trade MadBum is like expecting the Yankees to trade Judge.
Last thread got deleted, but thanks for the link before, Kyle - now I know who Johnny Lasagna is! There were also a lot of points in there that illustrate why I have now found myself here.
Yeah realized after that the Mets aspect of the column was sort of pouring salt in the wound. My bad! Was just trying to introduce you to Johnny Lasagna
Hahah, all good man - it was a good read. Appreciate it!
In a vacuum, he's a pretty solid addition, but he's 35 and will be purely a rental. I'm not trading Frazier or Sheffield or Florial for him. Maybe a few from a group of Adams, Tate, Wade, Acevedo, etc.
could not be any more different. Madbum with 1.5 years left until UFA. Judge has like 3 years of team controlled years left. There is zero threat of Judge getting up and walking after next year. I have no idea where the Giants are as far as competing with the teams around them but could be possible that they are not going to give him a $100M plus deal after next year. And they might want to avoid a dilemma like the Machado one, where the return will be greatly diminished.
I am not a fan of the MadBum trade cause after next year The Yanks are going to have to pay him A TON, or lose him for next to nothing. If they are giving up studs let it be for pitchers under team control for a couple years.
As ridiculous as some of these trade proposals have been, anything to do with Bumgarner is the most ridiculous of all. Expecting the the Giants to trade MadBum is like expecting the Yankees to trade Judge.
I'm certainly not expecting the Giants to trade him and only brought up his name because of the quality of pitcher I'd be willing to trade for.
I just don't want the Yanks giving up really good prospects for less than a really good to great pitcher. Fortunately I think Cash is thinking the same way. I could see him giving up some lower level guys for a fill in rental guy who'll eat some innings but unless he can grab an Ace, I'd be real surprised he gives up anything substantial.
and Eovaldi wasn't particularly good even before TJ
One of those guys who will always be a tease because of the huge fastball, but he's simply a mediocre pitcher who throws really hard. I mean, if he's available to next to nothing then fine, try for a lottery ticket, but I wouldn't give up anything of value for him.
One of those guys who will always be a tease because of the huge fastball, but he's simply a mediocre pitcher who throws really hard. I mean, if he's available to next to nothing then fine, try for a lottery ticket, but I wouldn't give up anything of value for him.
I believe he's supposed to throw against the Yanks Friday night so we should see how he's come back from the TJ. That said, I agree with you he is one of those tease type pitchers but who knows? Maybe they get lucky and catch lightning in a bottle for cheap.
That's an interesting list. I don't really know much about any of those guys, but it does sound like they're more future players than pitchers who could step in this year.
FWIW - river ave blues posted some under the radar targets
payed Evolidi a whole year just to rehab, you have to wonder how cheap he will be. From TB side of things they will say we new he was not going to pitch for us a whole year and we waited for the benefit to see him pitch...
In a vacuum, he's a pretty solid addition, but he's 35 and will be purely a rental. I'm not trading Frazier or Sheffield or Florial for him. Maybe a few from a group of Adams, Tate, Wade, Acevedo, etc.
This is what appeals to me about him vs others mentioned as realistic possibilities -- he is a solid pitcher for the next 2 years possibly and won't cost as much as others with a higher risk/reward profile.
But I am biased since a relative stars for the Badger BB team :)
payed Evolidi a whole year just to rehab, you have to wonder how cheap he will be. From TB side of things they will say we new he was not going to pitch for us a whole year and we waited for the benefit to see him pitch...
I've never really been a fan of Eovaldi. I saw a lot of him when he was in Miami and even though he was able to hit 100 on the gun with relative ease, his fastball never really cut much or had much break. Hitters were usually able to square it up pretty well.
Then, when he pitched for the Yankees and won 14 games, he was amongst the league leaders in run support. I think only one or two guys in the majors had better run support than he did that year - none of his peripherals were particularly impressive.
The sample size of him in TB right now is too small - the 0.625 WHIP piques my interest just a bit as does the K/BB - but again, tiny SS and the track record from years past say this probably won't be sustainable.
Bird's batting seventh, Didi up to the three spot.
Good move. Due to 2 1/2 years of very little playing action, Bird has a lot of rust and has not been able to shake it. If his batting average remains where it is, we may see Drury given some time at 1st base.
Bird's batting seventh, Didi up to the three spot.
Good move. Due to 2 1/2 years of very little playing action, Bird has a lot of rust and has not been able to shake it. If his batting average remains where it is, we may see Drury given some time at 1st base.
Give him some time. He's missed a lot of game action and it takes a while to get the timing down on ML pitching.
In 2015, he had a REALLY slow start when called up- them blew up after about a month or so. He's only played in 13 games so far- I would wait at least another month or two before getting concerned.
Remember, its not just Bird who isn't hitting- Sanchez and Stanton have really struggled. Didi and Gardner just came out of extended periods of doing nothing. Judge has had a tough couple weeks. In the end, they will all put up the traditional numbers we expect based on past performance- but sometimes players just start slow.
In a vacuum, he's a pretty solid addition, but he's 35 and will be purely a rental. I'm not trading Frazier or Sheffield or Florial for him. Maybe a few from a group of Adams, Tate, Wade, Acevedo, etc.
I would not be surprised if the Yanks used Loaisiga as a trade chip. His performance has been outstanding to date- but he is already on the 40 man roster and turns 24 in November.
He also has never thrown more than 68 innings in his career- and that was back in 2013 with the Giants. Even with the bigger jumps in IP that they can make with an older pitcher, he isn't likely to be 160-180 IP material for 2 more years. At that point, he is approaching the "out of options" window- as well as being in his mid-20's.
It might not be a bad idea to "sell high" on Loaisiga. Pair him up with another decent prospect and you can probably get one of the mid-rotation SP. Maybe with Tate or Adams it gets done?
In a vacuum, he's a pretty solid addition, but he's 35 and will be purely a rental. I'm not trading Frazier or Sheffield or Florial for him. Maybe a few from a group of Adams, Tate, Wade, Acevedo, etc.
I would not be surprised if the Yanks used Loaisiga as a trade chip. His performance has been outstanding to date- but he is already on the 40 man roster and turns 24 in November.
He also has never thrown more than 68 innings in his career- and that was back in 2013 with the Giants. Even with the bigger jumps in IP that they can make with an older pitcher, he isn't likely to be 160-180 IP material for 2 more years. At that point, he is approaching the "out of options" window- as well as being in his mid-20's.
It might not be a bad idea to "sell high" on Loaisiga. Pair him up with another decent prospect and you can probably get one of the mid-rotation SP. Maybe with Tate or Adams it gets done?
A few other trade chips that the team has are McKinney (who has picked up the pace as of late and hitting HRs for SWB), Drury, and Austin. These are guys with value, but are blocked due to the players in front of them. I would rather the team move Walker and brought Drury up (Drury can play a lot of positions, which is nice to have).
I don't really want see them trade some top prospects away, certainly not for a mid level type guy. If there's a bona fide Ace available that's not a rental, that's a different story but I'm not sure that guy is out there.
Frazier and Adams plus mid tier is not giving up the future. We still have Sheffield and Florial for the future. Plus we add a much needed arm for this years run.
Right now the trade market for pitchers is awful. It's going to be hard for Cashman to make a quality deal here.
We could win 100 games this year and lose a one and done game in the wild card. I think it's too risky to mortgage the future on a pitcher when it's not even guaranteed we're playing in the Divisional round.
We could win 100 games this year and lose a one and done game in the wild card. I think it's too risky to mortgage the future on a pitcher when it's not even guaranteed we're playing in the Divisional round.
It's insane to me that a team could win 100+ games and have to play a play-in game. To sustain a level of success throughout the entire course of a season like that and then be in a position where one down night for your offense or SP means you're out of the postseason entirely is fucking crazy. I
I understand the idea that they want to place a premium on winning the division - but BOS/NYY are the two best teams in the AL and really in baseball right now. For one of those two teams to have to win a play in game just to be a part of the postseason is something that just shouldn't happen
Beyond that, you have to burn your ace in that game. So, even if the Yanks win it - it means they can't use Severino in game one of the ALDS, and that carryover effect is equally shitty.
I'm really not a fan of it.
I love the idea of patience and not destroying the farm to win now, but there's no guarantee any future team ever plays as well as 43-19 to start the year. I'd hate to see us not "go for it" during a season where you are top 1st 2nd or 3rd teams in league.
We need top/mid rotation pitcher. Make a move to secure that. Don't empty the farm but don't just say "hey lets see what these kids can do" either.
I just have a lot of trouble seeing realistic trade options that will be worth the price.
This. I'm not an over-the-top prospect hugger, but the imperative should be to maximize value. Frittering away legit prospects for marginal upgrades is not maximizing value.
Yeah realized after that the Mets aspect of the column was sort of pouring salt in the wound. My bad! Was just trying to introduce you to Johnny Lasagna
I just have a lot of trouble seeing realistic trade options that will be worth the price.
Pretty spot on post and I totally agree. The only guy that might be remotely possible would be Bumgarner but I really don't think the Giants move him even if they fall out of it. Possible but not very likely IMO.
So what's left? Not much and nothing I can see worth giving much up for which is why I'm all for seeing how they do from within.
I just have a lot of trouble seeing realistic trade options that will be worth the price.
Someone called into the Kay show and suggested Evoldi. Kay mentioned that Cashman may have to think outside the box and that may be someone they look at. I have no idea if it is a possibility, or how well he's pitching.
There hasn't been lightning in that bottle since 2013, and he hasn't been even a league average starter since 2011. That ship has sailed.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Happ has been a quality starter for a couple years now, but be wary about overpaying for a 35 (this month) year old. For a reasonable price sure.
Quote:
Last thread got deleted, but thanks for the link before, Kyle - now I know who Johnny Lasagna is! There were also a lot of points in there that illustrate why I have now found myself here.
Yeah realized after that the Mets aspect of the column was sort of pouring salt in the wound. My bad! Was just trying to introduce you to Johnny Lasagna
Hahah, all good man - it was a good read. Appreciate it!
I'm certainly not expecting the Giants to trade him and only brought up his name because of the quality of pitcher I'd be willing to trade for.
I just don't want the Yanks giving up really good prospects for less than a really good to great pitcher. Fortunately I think Cash is thinking the same way. I could see him giving up some lower level guys for a fill in rental guy who'll eat some innings but unless he can grab an Ace, I'd be real surprised he gives up anything substantial.
Link - ( New Window )
I believe he's supposed to throw against the Yanks Friday night so we should see how he's come back from the TJ. That said, I agree with you he is one of those tease type pitchers but who knows? Maybe they get lucky and catch lightning in a bottle for cheap.
Jeff Hoffman from the Rockies
Garrett Richards from the Angels
Link - ( New Window )
Jeff Hoffman from the Rockies
Garrett Richards from the Angels Link - ( New Window )
If LAA fall out of the race without Ohtani and are sellers, Richards would be worthy of putting feelers out depending on price.
Another rental since he's on a 1 year deal, so the price would probably be pretty cheap.
The worry there is that, IIRC, he hasn't pitched particularly well @ YS in the past.
That's actually a very good point.
He has really good stuff and has generally been a pretty solid mid-rotation pitcher. If the cost is low, he's probably a good target.
This is what appeals to me about him vs others mentioned as realistic possibilities -- he is a solid pitcher for the next 2 years possibly and won't cost as much as others with a higher risk/reward profile.
But I am biased since a relative stars for the Badger BB team :)
I've never really been a fan of Eovaldi. I saw a lot of him when he was in Miami and even though he was able to hit 100 on the gun with relative ease, his fastball never really cut much or had much break. Hitters were usually able to square it up pretty well.
Then, when he pitched for the Yankees and won 14 games, he was amongst the league leaders in run support. I think only one or two guys in the majors had better run support than he did that year - none of his peripherals were particularly impressive.
The sample size of him in TB right now is too small - the 0.625 WHIP piques my interest just a bit as does the K/BB - but again, tiny SS and the track record from years past say this probably won't be sustainable.
Hal loves the young (cheap) players, and I don't blame him. Glad he seems to agree with most of us.
Hal loves the young (cheap) players, and I don't blame him. Glad he seems to agree with most of us.
Quote:
Bird's batting seventh, Didi up to the three spot.
Good move. Due to 2 1/2 years of very little playing action, Bird has a lot of rust and has not been able to shake it. If his batting average remains where it is, we may see Drury given some time at 1st base.
Give him some time. He's missed a lot of game action and it takes a while to get the timing down on ML pitching.
In 2015, he had a REALLY slow start when called up- them blew up after about a month or so. He's only played in 13 games so far- I would wait at least another month or two before getting concerned.
Remember, its not just Bird who isn't hitting- Sanchez and Stanton have really struggled. Didi and Gardner just came out of extended periods of doing nothing. Judge has had a tough couple weeks. In the end, they will all put up the traditional numbers we expect based on past performance- but sometimes players just start slow.
I would not be surprised if the Yanks used Loaisiga as a trade chip. His performance has been outstanding to date- but he is already on the 40 man roster and turns 24 in November.
He also has never thrown more than 68 innings in his career- and that was back in 2013 with the Giants. Even with the bigger jumps in IP that they can make with an older pitcher, he isn't likely to be 160-180 IP material for 2 more years. At that point, he is approaching the "out of options" window- as well as being in his mid-20's.
It might not be a bad idea to "sell high" on Loaisiga. Pair him up with another decent prospect and you can probably get one of the mid-rotation SP. Maybe with Tate or Adams it gets done?
Quote:
In a vacuum, he's a pretty solid addition, but he's 35 and will be purely a rental. I'm not trading Frazier or Sheffield or Florial for him. Maybe a few from a group of Adams, Tate, Wade, Acevedo, etc.
I would not be surprised if the Yanks used Loaisiga as a trade chip. His performance has been outstanding to date- but he is already on the 40 man roster and turns 24 in November.
He also has never thrown more than 68 innings in his career- and that was back in 2013 with the Giants. Even with the bigger jumps in IP that they can make with an older pitcher, he isn't likely to be 160-180 IP material for 2 more years. At that point, he is approaching the "out of options" window- as well as being in his mid-20's.
It might not be a bad idea to "sell high" on Loaisiga. Pair him up with another decent prospect and you can probably get one of the mid-rotation SP. Maybe with Tate or Adams it gets done?