there've been some great nicknames for reese around here (jerry reach, for example), and we all know he had trouble drafting OLs and LBs, some of his drafts were comically bad, and that he botched the mcadoo hiring (with mara's help). but the dude had some bad luck as GM:
steve smith tearing apart his leg, early retirement.
kevin boss, a ray of light at TE after shockey left, concussed to early retirement.
hakeem nicks on his way to a HOF type career tearing apart his leg in 2012 v tampa bay. early retirement.
terrell thomas, multiple ACL injuries, career cut short.
kenny phillips degenerative condition.
jake ballard: solid TE, career cut short by injury.
mario manningham- injuries to leg, outta here.
david wilson's neck/spine. early retirement.
chad jones almost dying and never taking a snap.
JPP blowing his hand apart.
just off the top of my head, maybe some i missed. i obviously don't follow any teams personnel as closely as the giants but i wonder how this stacks up with the rest of the league. we all know reese dug his own grave in the later years but the giants under his tenure had horrific luck with some of their best draft picks.
BING, BING, BING !!!! thread winner!!!
And no decent LBs either
Bradshaw hurt his feet at 25, Alford done after 32 games, Goff - who looked to be the MLB of future done after 37 games, Sintim, while not a good fit for the defense played 24 games and done
Beatty was 29 and done, Snee was 30 and done, Baas was 31 and done -
Reese'e issue with the draft was not top 2 round picks - it was his inability to land anything in round 3-4 from 09-12 - really nothing.
That's not "bad luck". That is the NFL being the meat grinder of a sport that it truly is.
That includes UDFA's and late-round signings.
You certainly expect 1st rounders to have a longer life as a player.
What have his drafts looked like since 2012?
Yeah, there was some bad luck. There was also some awful drafting and free agency moves.
The Giants had terrible luck with injuries on top draft picks and drafted too poor in lower rounds to backfill with adequate depth.
Furthermore, the Giants, who finished at or near the bottom 5 out of 6 years in overall health, often suffered injuries clustered at one or two key positions.
That makes any GM's job difficult, especially one who was poor in drafting after the first couple of rounds.
Waiting too long to start overhauling the offensive line after they started showing cracks in 2009, and failure to identify offensive line talent to get it turned around quicker.
The rest of it I don't blame him for. My gripe is the offensive line only.
At the end of the day he just didn't build a good enough team to compete for over 6-7 years.. and hence he was let go.. don't blame just injuries.. he had one of the worst records on hitting past 2nd round.. when you don't hit on late round picks, you have no depth and have to overpay for guys like Vereen and Harris.. and you have to force DEs to play 95% of snaps..
And the biggest criticism against him is that given all the resources available to him, he was unable to fix the OL in over 6 years.. It was time to let him go..
-Poor initial diagnosis
-Improper treatment based on poor diagnosis
-Player returns to field too soon, aggravates condition, injury becomes dramatically worse
I fully believe the Giants medical staff fucked up Smith's, Nicks's and Phillips' careers by clearing them to get back on the field too soon.
Smith actually went to the Eagles, who had him in action before he was recovered.
Phillips had microfracture surgery on a chronic knee and never recovered.
Nicks had compartment syndrome which left him with permanent nerve damage in his leg.
On none of those three players was the initial diagnosis incorrect, nor were they rushed back.
This idea has been debunked before, but I guess it doesn't sink in to people who don't have a fucking clue.
-Poor initial diagnosis
-Improper treatment based on poor diagnosis
-Player returns to field too soon, aggravates condition, injury becomes dramatically worse
I fully believe the Giants medical staff fucked up Smith's, Nicks's and Phillips' careers by clearing them to get back on the field too soon.
Second, DE/DT D. Thompson from Alabama showed well late last year and is on the first team this year. I believe he and Snacks will bottle up running backs all year.
Third, QB C. Webb is saying all the right things, working hard, learning and is poised for a young man. The jury is still out on whether he'll be an NFL starting QB but at least he has "looked" the part so far. Game 1 and Game 4 of the pre-season will be quite telling as to whether he is a capable backup or more.
Fourth, RB Gallman flashed and I think he'll backup S. Barkley quite well this year.
UDFA C. Wheeler, RT, has showed well and may actually compete with E. Flowers for a starting job this year. If he takes it down to the wire with Flowers, well, we will have 3 OT's who can play and that is a very good situation to be in these days. But, of course, lets see how he does in pads.
Reese's drafts from 2012 to 2016 sucked overall. Yes, he got OBJ and Collins but overall we came out with C- or worse type grades. This roster will be overturned once again next off-season if the players don't fit Shurmur's scheme and attitude.
There's literally no common staff other than they all work under the banner of HSS Sports Medicine, which by the way, services most of the prominent teams in the NYC area as well as USA basketball, USA lacrosse, USA swimming and most major Olympic sports.
Not USA gymnastics, however......
to another poster: i didn't include bradshaw and beatty in my original post because both signed second contracts with the giants. i don't believe any of those i listed ever got to that point. i actually really liked beatty and think he was underappreciated around here, but the detached retina and the back issues hampered him even during his first contract.
im still haunted by plax shooting himself in the leg and derailing the 2008 season. i know he wasn't an NYG draft pick, and was signed before reese took over as GM, but that was some more horrific bad luck. that was the most complete giants team i'd seen in about 20 years up through the shooting (and after strahan retired no less).
In comment 13990941 chuckydee9 said:
At the end of the day he just didn't build a good enough team to compete for over 6-7 years.. and hence he was let go.. don't blame just injuries.. he had one of the worst records on hitting past 2nd round.. when you don't hit on late round picks, you have no depth and have to overpay for guys like Vereen and Harris.. and you have to force DEs to play 95% of snaps..
And the biggest criticism against him is that given all the resources available to him, he was unable to fix the OL in over 6 years.. It was time to let him go..
I was talking about initial injuries, sorry if that wasn't clear. But go ahead and hurl invective.
None of those players reaggravated their initial injuries.
Nor is the Giants medical staff the same as the Mets.
But people commonly come on here and spout shit like that as facts.
He actually was put on injured reserve in 2009 with an "unhealthy left knee". Phillips was diagnosed with patellofemoral arthritis in his left knee before the season, and the condition worsened through the first two games of the 2009 season so they shut him down.
he had to have microfracture surgery and came back to play in 2010. He played the next two years without any other injuries, but he clearly was physically limited due to the microfracture process.
So what part of his story jibes with what you said??
None of those players reaggravated their initial injuries.
Nor is the Giants medical staff the same as the Mets.
But people commonly come on here and spout shit like that as facts.
Does that make the argumentation better?
Smith, who was initially believed to have injured his hamstring, underwent a magnetic resonance imaging examination on Tuesday. The injury will require surgery, which has yet to be scheduled. Smith will also be placed on injured reserve.
link
Kenny Phillips
The team discovered that Phillips' knee condition - "patella femoral arthritis" - worsened after an examination and MRI on Wednesday. The news came as a shock to Phillips, who was coming off a two-interception game against Dallas and thought he could play through the injury for the rest of the season.
The Miami product hasn't decided on a treatment yet according to the Giants. According to an NFL source, surgery is being considered, and apparently it would be a microfracture procedure...
Phillips suffered the injury sometime in training camp and had hoped to fight through the pain and play this season.
link
Hakeem Nicks
Two weeks later, before the Giants' Week 4 game in Philadelphia, Nicks had an MRI that showed "something" was torn. The doctors at that time told the receiver he'd need 6-8 weeks of rest.
Two weeks later, after missing only three games, Nicks was back on the field. But the injury never healed and he clearly was never the same.
link
None of these guys were the same after these injuries.
Phillips tried to play through the pain and the team shut him down!! Exactly how was that a poor diagnosis, especially since he never was able to play at a high level again?
Nicks developed compartment syndrome from pressure building up in his leg. It actually can develop from a minor injury. Read up on it some time. He had to have his leg cut open to relieve pressure and to this day has nerve damage. That didn't come from a bad diagnosis or a reaggravation.
By the way, Steve Smith was advised to not play the season he was signed by the Eagles (or at the very least, not until late in the year). The Eagles had him play early and he couldn't make it.
I should have said staff from the same hospital (HSS) not the same doctors themselves.
But whatever, because I have a different opinion than yours, I must have not fucking clue, and just being throwing shit without facts. Later.
Saying the Giants medical STAFF is the same as the Jets medical STAFF isn't an opinion. It is presented as fact. And it is false.
This is the opinion part:
Which I refuted with specific examples. Hell, Phillips never reinjured himself. So how could he have been rushed back? Smith signed with the Eagles before he even could come back from injury with us. And Nicks never reinjured himself.
You were pretty much full of shit the entire post, regardless of it you were stating facts or opinions.
I'm not saying you don't have a fucking clue because of a difference in opinion. I'm saying it because it truly appears on this matter you don't have a fucking clue.
sb from NYT Forum : 11:40 am : link : reply
That was in 2010. I'm talking about his knee injury that ultimately ruined his career.
the compartment syndrome left Nicks with permanent nerve damage. That's what ended his career. Not a knee injury or him "dogging it" as many posters asserted.
He went from being an elite player to one who will forever have numbness in his lower leg. That wasn't due to the knee.
And while medical history isn't always available to fans, that isn't opinion - it is fact.
Quote:
Who's talking about Nick's compartment syndrome?
sb from NYT Forum : 11:40 am : link : reply
That was in 2010. I'm talking about his knee injury that ultimately ruined his career.
the compartment syndrome left Nicks with permanent nerve damage. That's what ended his career. Not a knee injury or him "dogging it" as many posters asserted.
He went from being an elite player to one who will forever have numbness in his lower leg. That wasn't due to the knee.
And while medical history isn't always available to fans, that isn't opinion - it is fact.
If he did develop knee problems it would almost certainly stem from a compensatory gait due secondarily to his CS.
... to score his only post-Giants TD against the Giants in week 11 that season. but yes, he was essentially toast by then.
Does that make the argumentation better?
In comment 13991210 giantfan2000 said:
cruz wasn't drafted and was on his second contract at that point so not sure if he counts. but yea. nicks/cruz/manningham was an elite level receiving corps for just a short flash in eli's prime years due to injury. sad.
This is actually a crazy thread. Really terrible luck.