AAA Gagnon
AA Molina
A+ TBD
Columbia Kay
DSL1
DSL2
AAA
Evans 1-3, BB
Kaczmarski 1-4, K
Torres 1 inning 0 hits 0 runs 1 walks 3 k's
AA
Alonso 3-4, 2 2b
McNeil 0-2, 2 BB
Mazeika 0-3, BB (Last 10 games .188, has been awful all season)
Tebow 1-4, 2b
A+
Gimenez 0-3, BB, K
Paez 0-4
Lindsay 0-4, K
Prevost 4.2 innings 12 hits 4 ER 1 walk 5 k's
Nogosek 1.1 innings 0 hits 0 runs 2 walks 1 k
Zanghi 1.1 innings 2 hits 0 runs 0 walks 1 k
Columbia
Gladu 3-4, 2b
Sanchez 1-4, K
TIberi 0-3, BB, 2 k's (HORRENDOUS season... 2 for his last 33)
Winaker 0-3, BB, K
Brodey 1-4 3 k's
Cavallaro 6 innings 6 hits 0 runs 0 walks 7 k's (Should be promoted already)
Villines 1 inning 1 hit 0 runs 0 walks 2 k's
DSL
Consuegra 1-3, BB
Dominguez 5 innings 6 hits 1 run 0 walks 4 k's
Hernandez 2-5, 3 k's
Was told by a writer yesterday in his 7 years doing his job this is "easily" the least interesting farm system the Mets have ever had and outside of "who knows?" with teenagers he doesn't see even above average regulars outside of maybe Alonso.
Confirmed Dunn's first start with AA was unimpressive to scouts. Said he's seen McNeil "many" times and never saw him as a regular but acknowledged this season each time he's seen him he's hit rockets (
Those who have seen Mauricio like him but don't see "wow" factor like some of the phenoms in other systems
Consuegra has some mild buzz, very far away
Scouts also said Junior Santos is the kind of project that "Who knows?" but a name to file away
Theres one and only one prospect that fits that right now. Coincidentally, hes the one they all write about and like.
Second is, they dont target the toolsy, sexy kids. Kelenic theyll love, but how long till a writer sees him? Theyll all depend on the first one to lay eyes and write about him, and regurgitate whatever that report is for the next two years...
Consuegra Is very toolsy kid. So people will always wish in him. When a Mauricio just flat out plays the game and makes it look easy to someone who doesnt know what they are looking at. Kid takes a ridiculous break on a ball after being well positioned, looks boring making a routine play. Ill take tha 100/100 times over the kid who was forced to make the diving stop unnecessarily.
Theres a ton of young talent. Unfortunately thats not the problem. The real talent was drained away over time... writing was on the wall for the farm for a while, no one listened.
Link - ( New Window )
Outside of James, Montes de Oca, and Adolph anyone worth watching?
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mean this is UGLY and that's even if/when Cortes is added Link - ( New Window )
Outside of James, Montes de Oca, and Adolph anyone worth watching?
Cortes and Hill when added, Adolph 4th OF upside. Sharp had a solid season so ?? But really ugly. Indy ball and older guys. Sad really.
Interesting. They announced him as a 3b but he does have pitching experience.
006 Kelenic $5,525,200
048 Woods-Richardson $1,485,100
083 Cortes $705,300
110 Hill $507,800
140 Gilliam $379,400
170 Meyer $285,200
200 Smith $222,300 $222,300 $0
230 Megill $176,700
260 Montes de Oca $152,100 $152,100 $0
290 Rodriguez $141,800
680 Gonzalez $125,000 $175,000 ($50,000)
Total: $9,705,900 $549,400 ($50,000)
So currently they have 50,000 OVER slot. Smith getting slot surprises me.
Is it because he was a college player?
Is it because he was a college player?
Because he guaranteed himself 5.9 million by agreeing to it. If he doesn't go within the next 2 picks the pool decreases to the point a team has to go over slot to sign him which means he could have ended up with less money. Only the top 5 picks could have guaranteed him 5.9 (what he got) or more.
Sandy implied it could happen soon.
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save $1M on Bohm?
Is it because he was a college player?
Because he guaranteed himself 5.9 million by agreeing to it. If he doesn't go within the next 2 picks the pool decreases to the point a team has to go over slot to sign him which means he could have ended up with less money. Only the top 5 picks could have guaranteed him 5.9 (what he got) or more.
So it was sort of negotiated pre-draft that they'd take him there but he'd agree to less than slot?
seems illegal.
Where did you see that? Tyler Moore revisited?
Quote:
for Manny Rodriguez? WTF
Where did you see that? Tyler Moore revisited?
R Nitelight over at NYFS. He didn't provide a link but I've yet to see him post any false info before (linked below)
Kevin Smith confirmed as slot
Link - ( New Window )
Joe DeMayo
@PSLToFlushing
13s13 seconds ago
Official signing bonuses for 3 #Mets draft picks:
7th Round LHP Kevin Smith - $222,300 (full slot)
9th Round RHP Bryce Montes de Oca - $152,100 (full slot)
23rd Round RHP Saul Gonzalez - $175,000 ($50K off of Mets Draft pool)
Quote:
In comment 13990913 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
for Manny Rodriguez? WTF
Where did you see that? Tyler Moore revisited?
R Nitelight over at NYFS. He didn't provide a link but I've yet to see him post any false info before (linked below)
Kevin Smith confirmed as slot Link - ( New Window )
Okay. Just wondering if he mistook Gonzalez's bonus amount for Rodriguez's
I dont have a problem with the kids they took. But I certainly have a massive problem with the confused strategy this draft took. Too many chefs?
I dont have a problem with the kids they took. But I certainly have a massive problem with the confused strategy this draft took. Too many chefs?
It's almost like they brought in a new voice in the room with the GM being fully on board.
Link - ( New Window )
Just tank for a few years and draft smart, then maybe we can be astros/cubs after a few years....
the owners don't give a shit about winning. or at least it's not their primary goal.
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I ask. How is Sandy's job not on the line? 32 games under .500 since opening day 2017 and a bottom tier farm. What's the excuse? Where is this immense influx of good young talent that has zapped the farm? The Mets leaders in fWAR (a bad team no less) have 1 single player brought up to the majors within the last 5 seasons (Nimmo). They traded Fulmer.. 1 solid player traded. What's the excuse.
the owners don't give a shit about winning. or at least it's not their primary goal.
"meaningful games in september"
Well, that's not true. Syndergaard was promoted in 2015. DeGrom in 2014. Conforto, Rosario, Gsellman, Lugo, Matz, Familia, Wilmer Flores, Guillorme, Dom Smith, Sewald...these were all Mets draft picks or international signings now with the big club. Jacob Rhame, Tim Peterson...I get that there isn't a lot of stars or even proven good big leaguers yet, but you have to acknowledge that there are more players that have been promoted from the farm system than just Nimmo. And I know, Sandy had nothing to do with guys like Wilmer Flores and some of the others. But some of these he did, and still more are on the way...even though there may or may not be future stars on the farm (the scouts and writers both miss on guys), there are guys that can be good big leaguers coming. Alonso, David Peterson, Kay, Dunn.
To me the big mistake is that he let Daniel Murphy go. That was a crushing loss to the team and I don't think this team is in last place with Murphy still here.
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I ask. How is Sandy's job not on the line? 32 games under .500 since opening day 2017 and a bottom tier farm. What's the excuse? Where is this immense influx of good young talent that has zapped the farm? The Mets leaders in fWAR (a bad team no less) have 1 single player brought up to the majors within the last 5 seasons (Nimmo). They traded Fulmer.. 1 solid player traded. What's the excuse.
Well, that's not true. Syndergaard was promoted in 2015. DeGrom in 2014. Conforto, Rosario, Gsellman, Lugo, Matz, Familia, Wilmer Flores, Guillorme, Dom Smith, Sewald...these were all Mets draft picks or international signings now with the big club. Jacob Rhame, Tim Peterson...I get that there isn't a lot of stars or even proven good big leaguers yet, but you have to acknowledge that there are more players that have been promoted from the farm system than just Nimmo. And I know, Sandy had nothing to do with guys like Wilmer Flores and some of the others. But some of these he did, and still more are on the way...even though there may or may not be future stars on the farm (the scouts and writers both miss on guys), there are guys that can be good big leaguers coming. Alonso, David Peterson, Kay, Dunn.
To me the big mistake is that he let Daniel Murphy go. That was a crushing loss to the team and I don't think this team is in last place with Murphy still here.
DeGrom is in his FIFTH season. You are really including him as a reason why the 2018 farm system sucks? lol you must be kidding me. Rosario has been awful, Familia debuted in 2012!! Wilmer... 2013!! This is an absurd response. Truly. Guillorme has been laughably bad, Sewald a 5.00. This is a legit reason why the Mets farm system is barren now? lol Tim Peterson (who I've been an advocate for) is 28 in Feb with 4 solid MLB innings. Rhame is 25... with a 5.61 FIP as a Met. This is laughable. Of the list you just gave... which again for some reason includes players that debuted in 2012! The only positives are Lugo/Gsellman/Nimmo/Conforto. Wilmer Flores is a fan favorite... who debuted 6 years ago and has been worth .2 fWAR this year, 1.1 over his last 156 games (a full-season worth). Are you an Alderson?
For years we were told that when the team starts winning, they'd start spending like a big market team. And even without counting the insurance repayments from Wright, they have never been higher than 15th in payroll since Sandy inherited Omar's disastrous 5th highest payroll in 2011. And that was with baseball revenue booming.
Wilmer Flores (2013 debut, so really an absurd example of a guy you can point to in regard to the weak farm.. 501 career games 4.8 fWAR)
Jacob Rhame (2017 debut) career NEGATIVE .2 fWAR
Steven Matz (4th MLB season) 3.4 fWAR over 53 career starts
Familia debuted in 2012, not even worth mentioning him as that's just a ridiculous one
Rosario .2 fWAR career
Guillorme... only Jose Reyes has been worse of players who have appeared for the 2018 team
It's not true the Mets have not promoted enough good young talent for it to explain the farm? Really? Where are these top prospects who have debuted and done well and thus the depletion? 2018 Mets going back to the 2015 season even here are your fWAR leaders
Granderson
Cespedes
Conforto
Cabrera
Neil Walker
Duda
Wilmer
Pitchers-
DeGrom
Thor
Harvey
Colon
Familia
Reed
So going back 4 seasons you have... Michael Conforto and Noah Syndergaard. That is it.
Its idiotic. But they dont want to promote Alonso until they know Dom isnt going back to Vegas. Which is idiotic in itself - let him sink or swim. Period.
If BMO starts (SOME talk, it who knows) but if he does, catch one of his. If not, hope he pitches, and somehow stays healthy, when you catch a game.
Ive mentioned James before, very enjoyable to watch.
Watch Uriarte catch. Lagrange might be a hitter down the road. Gilliam nasty curve.
It's actually a helluva accomplishment for a big-market team to have a team this bad, and a farm system this bad. I know the Mets are run like a small-market team but they're not broke, they have a big fan base -- if the Wilpons are broke, that's a separate thing from the Mets being broke. (Madoff, etc.)
It's kind of jaw-dropping. If you set out to draft badly, sign badly, coach badly and play badly, you couldn't get a team much worse than this.
If BMO starts (SOME talk, it who knows) but if he does, catch one of his. If not, hope he pitches, and somehow stays healthy, when you catch a game.
Ive mentioned James before, very enjoyable to watch.
Watch Uriarte catch. Lagrange might be a hitter down the road. Gilliam nasty curve.
Law likes Hill but thinks he's a reliever.
@LBarer32
Following Following @LBarer32
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I have learned from multiple sources that both Peter Alonso and Jeff McNeil have been promoted to Triple-A Las Vegas. #Mets @MetsMerized
@LBarer32
Following Following @LBarer32
More
I have learned from multiple sources that both Peter Alonso and Jeff McNeil have been promoted to Triple-A Las Vegas. #Mets @MetsMerized
Common sense has once again prevailed ;)
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In comment 13990993 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
I ask. How is Sandy's job not on the line? 32 games under .500 since opening day 2017 and a bottom tier farm. What's the excuse? Where is this immense influx of good young talent that has zapped the farm? The Mets leaders in fWAR (a bad team no less) have 1 single player brought up to the majors within the last 5 seasons (Nimmo). They traded Fulmer.. 1 solid player traded. What's the excuse.
Well, that's not true. Syndergaard was promoted in 2015. DeGrom in 2014. Conforto, Rosario, Gsellman, Lugo, Matz, Familia, Wilmer Flores, Guillorme, Dom Smith, Sewald...these were all Mets draft picks or international signings now with the big club. Jacob Rhame, Tim Peterson...I get that there isn't a lot of stars or even proven good big leaguers yet, but you have to acknowledge that there are more players that have been promoted from the farm system than just Nimmo. And I know, Sandy had nothing to do with guys like Wilmer Flores and some of the others. But some of these he did, and still more are on the way...even though there may or may not be future stars on the farm (the scouts and writers both miss on guys), there are guys that can be good big leaguers coming. Alonso, David Peterson, Kay, Dunn.
To me the big mistake is that he let Daniel Murphy go. That was a crushing loss to the team and I don't think this team is in last place with Murphy still here.
DeGrom is in his FIFTH season. You are really including him as a reason why the 2018 farm system sucks? lol you must be kidding me. Rosario has been awful, Familia debuted in 2012!! Wilmer... 2013!! This is an absurd response. Truly. Guillorme has been laughably bad, Sewald a 5.00. This is a legit reason why the Mets farm system is barren now? lol Tim Peterson (who I've been an advocate for) is 28 in Feb with 4 solid MLB innings. Rhame is 25... with a 5.61 FIP as a Met. This is laughable. Of the list you just gave... which again for some reason includes players that debuted in 2012! The only positives are Lugo/Gsellman/Nimmo/Conforto. Wilmer Flores is a fan favorite... who debuted 6 years ago and has been worth .2 fWAR this year, 1.1 over his last 156 games (a full-season worth). Are you an Alderson?
Dan...you said they haven't promoted a single player from the minors to the big leagues in the last 5 seasons other than Nimmo. I pointed out that is incorrect, along with a list of players they promoted within the last 5 seasons.
I don't know what to tell you...Sandy hasn't had a lot of drafts yet in which the players have had enough time to make it to the big leagues, albeit the situation doesn't look good and nobody can say with credibility that the Mets have a good farm system right now.
However, they've graduated players, and more than just Nimmo have been Sandy picks...like Gsellman and Lugo and other guys I've mentioned. The criticism is fine...I don't think he deserves a pass here, but it should be accurate as well.
He was injured. Butterfly effect, you can't say he would've been injured if he had been a Met...but he very likely would've been the All-Star caliber player that he has been since the Mets postseason run a couple of seasons ago.
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made his season debut this week, he's 0 for 7 with 1BB and 3K's on the season, as a DH, he's not the difference in the Mets season (at this point).
He was injured. Butterfly effect, you can't say he would've been injured if he had been a Met...but he very likely would've been the All-Star caliber player that he has been since the Mets postseason run a couple of seasons ago.
Fair point, but the butterfly effect has to work both ways, you cannot simply assume outcomes, just as equal a chance he would have been an all-star caliber player with the Mets that he had of being his regular self of the past n years he was a Met if he had remained a Met.
And in fact based on Mets history you could say his chances of being injured would increase simply by remaining a Met.
either way, if dealing with actual facts, Murphy on the Mets in 2018 doesn't change a thing, since in 2018 Murphy just made his debut.
I would say the biggest problem with this organization in the Wilpon era is determining who was worth spending on in free agency and who wasn't. I think they have always made a lot of reactionary moves that weren't in the long term interest of the franchise because there hasn't been a stable plan from ownership.
- Almost not resigning Piazza (thanks numbah 1)
- Todd Zeile over Olerud
- Letting Hampton walk and signing Appier/Trachsel
- the wrong Matsui
- KRod
- Luis Castillo contract
- Oliver Perez contract
- Jason Bay over Holliday
Yes some guys have also worked out reasonably well like Ventura, Beltran, Billy Wagner and Granderson, but by and large there have been many more misses than hits and the misses seemed to cripple the franchise for years.
I think generally Sandy has to be graded on a different curve because he hasn't had the payroll support of the previous era, but the money he has spent has been just as bad. Frank Francisco, Cuddyer, Bruce, etc. I think that's a far bigger stain on his record here than his minor league pipeline which has pretty steadily graduated 2+ regulars per year. Nimmo, Rosario, Lugo, Gsellman all graduated the system in the 2 seasons after the WS year. Conforto and Syndergaard were obviously key call ups in 2015. I know everyone likes to quickly point out Omar drafted JDG, Harvey, Matz and Familia - had he and Bernazard stuck around they also might have ruined their development like they did with Mejia.
this isn't Roger Clemens saying he wanted to be closer to home (Texas) and leaving the Red Sox for the Bluejays.
I also though Kaz Matsui was a disaster, but I'd be a hypocrite if I complained about that signing, I wish the Mets would take more gambles like that (though it's different now I guess with IFA budgets). They should not have had Reyes move off SS for him, but it was a heated battle for Kaz Matsui, and the Mets won, he sucked and it didn't work out, but I wish they would be involved in more players like him.
The rest complete agreement. And some people don't realize the Bonilla deferred contract that turns into an annual punch line allowed Hampton to happen.
this isn't Roger Clemens saying he wanted to be closer to home (Texas) and leaving the Red Sox for the Bluejays.
I also though Kaz Matsui was a disaster, but I'd be a hypocrite if I complained about that signing, I wish the Mets would take more gambles like that (though it's different now I guess with IFA budgets). They should not have had Reyes move off SS for him, but it was a heated battle for Kaz Matsui, and the Mets won, he sucked and it didn't work out, but I wish they would be involved in more players like him.
The rest complete agreement. And some people don't realize the Bonilla deferred contract that turns into an annual punch line allowed Hampton to happen.
That's totally fair on Matsui - I also wish they would take more risks like that, and then like you said manage those risks appropriately by not moving better players and overhyping.
I think the frustrating thing taking the long view of this ownership regime (beyond the madoff stuff which is unjustifiable) is that they have never learned from their mistakes. They are penny wise and pound foolish time and time again.
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In comment 13991133 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 13990993 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
I ask. How is Sandy's job not on the line? 32 games under .500 since opening day 2017 and a bottom tier farm. What's the excuse? Where is this immense influx of good young talent that has zapped the farm? The Mets leaders in fWAR (a bad team no less) have 1 single player brought up to the majors within the last 5 seasons (Nimmo). They traded Fulmer.. 1 solid player traded. What's the excuse.
Well, that's not true. Syndergaard was promoted in 2015. DeGrom in 2014. Conforto, Rosario, Gsellman, Lugo, Matz, Familia, Wilmer Flores, Guillorme, Dom Smith, Sewald...these were all Mets draft picks or international signings now with the big club. Jacob Rhame, Tim Peterson...I get that there isn't a lot of stars or even proven good big leaguers yet, but you have to acknowledge that there are more players that have been promoted from the farm system than just Nimmo. And I know, Sandy had nothing to do with guys like Wilmer Flores and some of the others. But some of these he did, and still more are on the way...even though there may or may not be future stars on the farm (the scouts and writers both miss on guys), there are guys that can be good big leaguers coming. Alonso, David Peterson, Kay, Dunn.
To me the big mistake is that he let Daniel Murphy go. That was a crushing loss to the team and I don't think this team is in last place with Murphy still here.
DeGrom is in his FIFTH season. You are really including him as a reason why the 2018 farm system sucks? lol you must be kidding me. Rosario has been awful, Familia debuted in 2012!! Wilmer... 2013!! This is an absurd response. Truly. Guillorme has been laughably bad, Sewald a 5.00. This is a legit reason why the Mets farm system is barren now? lol Tim Peterson (who I've been an advocate for) is 28 in Feb with 4 solid MLB innings. Rhame is 25... with a 5.61 FIP as a Met. This is laughable. Of the list you just gave... which again for some reason includes players that debuted in 2012! The only positives are Lugo/Gsellman/Nimmo/Conforto. Wilmer Flores is a fan favorite... who debuted 6 years ago and has been worth .2 fWAR this year, 1.1 over his last 156 games (a full-season worth). Are you an Alderson?
Dan...you said they haven't promoted a single player from the minors to the big leagues in the last 5 seasons other than Nimmo. I pointed out that is incorrect, along with a list of players they promoted within the last 5 seasons.
I don't know what to tell you...Sandy hasn't had a lot of drafts yet in which the players have had enough time to make it to the big leagues, albeit the situation doesn't look good and nobody can say with credibility that the Mets have a good farm system right now.
However, they've graduated players, and more than just Nimmo have been Sandy picks...like Gsellman and Lugo and other guys I've mentioned. The criticism is fine...I don't think he deserves a pass here, but it should be accurate as well.
Huh? I did not say that. I asked
"I ask. How is Sandy's job not on the line? 32 games under .500 since opening day 2017 and a bottom tier farm. What's the excuse? Where is this immense influx of good young talent that has zapped the farm? The Mets leaders in fWAR (a bad team no less) have 1 single player brought up to the majors within the last 5 seasons (Nimmo). They traded Fulmer.. 1 solid player traded. What's the excuse. "
You named mostly replacement level players or players... who debuted in 2012!!! Sandy has been here...8 drafts. To claim there hasn't been enough time is absurd.
Mets fWAR leaders
Nimmo
Cabrera
Frazier
Cespedes
Lagares
Mesoraco
Bautista
Are the Mets leaders in fWAR
If you want to include pitchers
Syndergaard would be #2
Third amongst players who came up within the last 5 seasons...that would be Seth Lugo and his .5 fWAR.
According to additional data obtained by The Athletic, the Mets spent the second-lowest of any club in the draft from 2007 to 11, when bonuses remained unrestricted (they still landed deGrom, Matt Harvey and Matz, among others, during that period). From 2012 to 15, when new rules allowed teams to exceed their allotted bonus pools by five percent without losing a pick, the Mets ranked 26th in spending, in part because they lost two high picks and the accompanying bonus money for the free-agent signings of outfielders Michael Cuddyer and Curtis Granderson (they also gained a high pick for losing Reyes).
Teams are capped in what they can spend internationally under the current collective bargaining agreement, but the Mets did not exceed their bonus pool from 2012 to 16, when the rules allowed them to go past the limit at the cost of dollar-for-dollar penalties and future restrictions on signings. Still, it wasnt as if they were inactive. The Mets signed Rosario in 12, and their No. 1 prospect is Andres Gimenez, a Class A shortstop from Venezuela whom they signed in 15. They also made a splash in 17, signing shortstop Ronny Mauricio and outfielder Adrian Hernandez, two of the top 30 international free agents according to MLBPipeline.com. The return last December of former GM Omar Minaya a former scout born in the Dominican Republic should help in their international pursuits.
Rosenthal on the Mets in theathletic $ - ( New Window )