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NFT: Bitcoin now at $6383.

njm : 6/14/2018 11:57 am
I'll admit to some schadenfreude here, but hopefully everyone got out a while ago. I don't think it's going to hit $100,000. for a while.
Well  
cjac : 6/14/2018 12:13 pm : link
if you bought the ETF, ARKW, you're doing pretty well, but they were smart enough to get out of it at the right time.

I like to leave the the strategy to the experts
RE: Well  
cjac : 6/14/2018 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13991138 cjac said:
Quote:
if you bought the ETF, ARKW, you're doing pretty well, but they were smart enough to get out of it at the right time.

I like to leave the the strategy to the experts


To clarify, the EFT still owns Bitcoin, just reduced the position drastically. Took profits
I was thinking about getting in a few months ago  
Ira : 6/14/2018 12:17 pm : link
and then I read that Buffett said it would almost certainly come to a bad ending.
You may want to check this article...  
BMac : 6/14/2018 12:43 pm : link
...
Bitcoin Price Manipulation - ( New Window )
It's still up  
Metnut : 6/14/2018 1:11 pm : link
close to 100% from 12 months ago and still up over 10000% from June 2013.

Anyone going into BTC would hopefully understand that this is an extremely volatile asset and proceed accordingly. I still really like BTC both medium and long-term.
So....HODL?  
halfback20 : 6/14/2018 1:14 pm : link
...
sorry  
giantfan2000 : 6/14/2018 1:26 pm : link
sorry for those that loss money
I have posted before I am a huge bear on cryptos
I think they are fraud of the highest order ..

bitcoin is headed toward $500

bitcoin will eventually go to 0 because it is inevitable that the block chain becomes unmanageable and the coin is essentially abandoned.
The party is probably over.  
Heisenberg : 6/14/2018 1:28 pm : link
.
My brother in law has...  
EricJ : 6/14/2018 1:34 pm : link
at least 20 bitcoin mines in his basement. Those things are cranking out so much heat and it is extremely noisy down there. No idea how much money he is making from those things.
RE: My brother in law has...  
njm : 6/14/2018 1:45 pm : link
In comment 13991207 EricJ said:
Quote:
at least 20 bitcoin mines in his basement. Those things are cranking out so much heat and it is extremely noisy down there. No idea how much money he is making from those things.


Wonder what his electric bills run
RE: RE: My brother in law has...  
giantsfan44ab : 6/14/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13991214 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 13991207 EricJ said:


Quote:


at least 20 bitcoin mines in his basement. Those things are cranking out so much heat and it is extremely noisy down there. No idea how much money he is making from those things.



Wonder what his electric bills run


^this. Right now most miners are losing money and that’s assuming you’re getting good electricity rates. On top of that when the new versions of machines are released a lot of the older ones lose value. Can’t imagine how you make money hosting those at home unless he’s in a cheap electricity state.
An engineer at work..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/14/2018 1:48 pm : link
ran the model of starting a BitCoin farm and he said unless you can get electricity at a cut rate (or somehow tap into a source illegally), it is unsustainable to mine bitcoin.

I'd imagine whatever revenue your brother-in-law can mine will be overtaken by the electric bills an operating cost.
RE: The party is probably over.  
Stan in LA : 6/14/2018 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13991202 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
.

Yup.
I still believe it will rise back up  
DennyInDenville : 6/14/2018 1:52 pm : link
I'm holding onto everything I have, if I lose it, so be it

The upside is just to extreme to sell off just yet

If I sold now I would break even
Recent analysis  
Jim in Fairfax : 6/14/2018 1:52 pm : link
Found that Bitcoin price was heavily manipulated during the run up.
LOL...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/14/2018 1:54 pm : link
when you aren't holding anything, not selling it is an excellent idea:

Quote:
I still believe it will rise back up
DennyInDenville : 1:52 pm : link : reply
I'm holding onto everything I have, if I lose it, so be it

The upside is just to extreme to sell off just yet

If I sold now I would break even
RE: LOL...  
DennyInDenville : 6/14/2018 2:07 pm : link
In comment 13991223 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
when you aren't holding anything, not selling it is an excellent idea:



Quote:


I still believe it will rise back up
DennyInDenville : 1:52 pm : link : reply
I'm holding onto everything I have, if I lose it, so be it

The upside is just to extreme to sell off just yet

If I sold now I would break even


Some people, including myself have thought about just getting our money back. But like I said, I see to much upside to simply sell it off for basically two 5 star steak dinners .. not worth it.

A wise man once said when asked the question "when will I know when to sell my BTC?"

The wise man answered "when the time comes to sell, you won't need to"

Whatever that means , anyway, I took it to heart and I'm in it for the long haul..

Look at Amazon, and stocks like that, compare it to crypto in the early stages.. just to much upside like I said to sell off for two steak dinners with bumble thots so idk.. gonna #HODL
Do I really..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/14/2018 2:09 pm : link
need to phrase it a different way for you to get the point?
Compare crypto  
giantsfan44ab : 6/14/2018 2:14 pm : link
to early Amazon? Where are the earnings reports and revenue drivers? This is pure supply and demand, there's nothing besides technicals to go off of.
everyone knocking the price drop in Bitcoin  
rsmith32 : 6/14/2018 2:14 pm : link
truly doesn't know the entire history of Bitcoin and its overall potential.

RE: everyone knocking the price drop in Bitcoin  
Heisenberg : 6/14/2018 2:16 pm : link
In comment 13991248 rsmith32 said:
Quote:
truly doesn't know the entire history of Bitcoin and its overall potential.


The potential is anywhere from 100K to 0.
RE: everyone knocking the price drop in Bitcoin  
giantsfan44ab : 6/14/2018 2:20 pm : link
In comment 13991248 rsmith32 said:
Quote:
truly doesn't know the entire history of Bitcoin and its overall potential.


Well it doesn't seem like many people do considering these studies of price manipulation only recently coming out.
RE: RE: The party is probably over.  
BigBlue4You09 : 6/14/2018 2:31 pm : link
In comment 13991219 Stan in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 13991202 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


.


Yup.


Welp this confirms it, the party definitely isn't over.
RE: everyone knocking the price drop in Bitcoin  
BigBlue4You09 : 6/14/2018 2:32 pm : link
In comment 13991248 rsmith32 said:
Quote:
truly doesn't know the entire history of Bitcoin and its overall potential.


This x100, nor do they understand a thing about blockchain technology.
RE: RE: everyone knocking the price drop in Bitcoin  
giantsfan44ab : 6/14/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 13991259 BigBlue4You09 said:
Quote:
In comment 13991248 rsmith32 said:


Quote:


truly doesn't know the entire history of Bitcoin and its overall potential.




This x100, nor do they understand a thing about blockchain technology.


I don't see anyone questioning blockchain. I can flip it the other way, the blockchain enthusiasts maybe don't understand how markets and supply/demand work. I see most people questioning how crypto's value is correlated to the underlying assets. When the vast majority of all crytpos swings together in the same direction at the same time I think there is legitimate reason to what is driving the value of them.

When the top Wall Street traders are leaving their cushy jobs to join these crytpo hedge funds they certainly aren't buying and HODLing. They are taking advantage of the majority of the retail investors and enthusiasts who don't know any better.
RE: Recent analysis  
short lease : 6/14/2018 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13991222 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
Found that Bitcoin price was heavily manipulated during the run up.


This ... and now that this news is out I doubt it climbs like it 1 time did.
RE: RE: everyone knocking the price drop in Bitcoin  
Giants in 07 : 6/14/2018 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13991259 BigBlue4You09 said:
Quote:
In comment 13991248 rsmith32 said:


Quote:


truly doesn't know the entire history of Bitcoin and its overall potential.




This x100, nor do they understand a thing about blockchain technology.


Yup.
RE: RE: everyone knocking the price drop in Bitcoin  
rsmith32 : 6/14/2018 2:43 pm : link
completely understandable. But it's just so fitting for the naysayers to make a comment as soon as the media decides to post a big article about a recent price drop.

We are in the infancy of this crypto world - extreme volatility is going to happen.

I recommend all beginners to listen to this podcast series:

http://investorfieldguide.com/hashpower/

It's hosted by Patrick O’Shaughnessy, extremely inteligent finance guy who interviews some of the smartest minds in this field. His dad is James O'Shaughnessy, who is also very well known in the finance world.





RE: RE: everyone knocking the price drop in Bitcoin  
Jim in Fairfax : 6/14/2018 2:45 pm : link
In comment 13991259 BigBlue4You09 said:
Quote:
In comment 13991248 rsmith32 said:


Quote:


truly doesn't know the entire history of Bitcoin and its overall potential.




This x100, nor do they understand a thing about blockchain technology.

Not knocking the price drop — I think it’s well deserved.

And I know plenty about blockchain and think it’s a great technology that will be used in a lot of ways. Here’s the most important thing I understand about it: Bitcoin has no intellectual property rights for blockchain. Anybody can use it royalty free. Thus there is no rationale for a high bitcoin price simply because it uses blockchain.
RE: RE: LOL...  
short lease : 6/14/2018 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13991237 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
In comment 13991223 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


when you aren't holding anything, not selling it is an excellent idea:



Quote:


I still believe it will rise back up
DennyInDenville : 1:52 pm : link : reply
I'm holding onto everything I have, if I lose it, so be it

The upside is just to extreme to sell off just yet

If I sold now I would break even




Some people, including myself have thought about just getting our money back. But like I said, I see to much upside to simply sell it off for basically two 5 star steak dinners .. not worth it.

A wise man once said when asked the question "when will I know when to sell my BTC?"

The wise man answered "when the time comes to sell, you won't need to"

Whatever that means , anyway, I took it to heart and I'm in it for the long haul..

Look at Amazon, and stocks like that, compare it to crypto in the early stages.. just to much upside like I said to sell off for two steak dinners with bumble thots so idk.. gonna #HODL



Amazon actually sells things and generates revenue ... look I hope you become rich and can retire early. I am not rooting against bitcoin investors (I would never do that) but, comparing bitcoin to Amazon? I don't think that is a good comparison.
Recent news  
steve in ky : 6/14/2018 2:53 pm : link
Quote:
Researchers at the University of Texas at Austin found that at least half of bitcoin's astronomical returns last year may have been a result of manipulation.

Bitcoin’s astronomical rise last year was buoyed by market manipulation, researchers say - ( New Window )
That's a good point , amazon does sell things as a company  
DennyInDenville : 6/14/2018 2:54 pm : link
Sorry my point is, Amazon at its early stage was very foreign language wise in a way like bitcoin is to just about everyone

Gun to my head? Bitcoin and all other Cryptos were the greatest Ponzi scheme the world has ever seen. But I also believe in the chance , I treat it like a lotto ticket, nothing more. I never wake up thinking I don't have to keep working extremely hard in life because I have some crypto.

Thank you for the kind words and wishes though, I really appreciate it and hope you have an early retirement as well filled with blessings.
RE: RE: RE: everyone knocking the price drop in Bitcoin  
Heisenberg : 6/14/2018 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13991275 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 13991259 BigBlue4You09 said:


Quote:


In comment 13991248 rsmith32 said:


Quote:


truly doesn't know the entire history of Bitcoin and its overall potential.




This x100, nor do they understand a thing about blockchain technology.


Not knocking the price drop — I think it’s well deserved.

And I know plenty about blockchain and think it’s a great technology that will be used in a lot of ways. Here’s the most important thing I understand about it: Bitcoin has no intellectual property rights for blockchain. Anybody can use it royalty free. Thus there is no rationale for a high bitcoin price simply because it uses blockchain.


Exactly. Blockchain is an interesting technology but a particular coin only has value if a group of people thinks it does. Once they change their minds, there's nothing innate to a particular coin that can preserve it's value.

In short, there's minimal technical difference between Bitcoin and Dennis Rodman's Potcoin. We could get the engineers on this board together and make BBI coin.
RE: RE: RE: everyone knocking the price drop in Bitcoin  
Giants in 07 : 6/14/2018 2:55 pm : link
In comment 13991272 rsmith32 said:
Quote:
completely understandable. But it's just so fitting for the naysayers to make a comment as soon as the media decides to post a big article about a recent price drop.

We are in the infancy of this crypto world - extreme volatility is going to happen.

I recommend all beginners to listen to this podcast series:

http://investorfieldguide.com/hashpower/

It's hosted by Patrick O’Shaughnessy, extremely inteligent finance guy who interviews some of the smartest minds in this field. His dad is James O'Shaughnessy, who is also very well known in the finance world.




Good point re: Hashs. I know LTC's is currently at an all time high. Adoption is at an all time high. Big players like Goldman Sachs and NASDAQ signaling their interest in opening exchanges and global governments are voicing their support for crypto and blockchain related innovations. Yet the price freefalls. Of course the rise to 20K was manipulated, just like this drop to 6K is.

I've been holding and adding since the beginning of 2017, and this is a buying opportunity for me. I wouldn't count on this current little pump to be a reversal, so there may be more pain on the way..

..Not as much pain as selling during this and watching institutional money join the frey without a position though. I can take the loss if this goes belly up.. I would not be able to take the rocket leaving me behind.
RE: Recent news  
BigBlue4You09 : 6/14/2018 2:58 pm : link
In comment 13991289 steve in ky said:
Quote:


Quote:


Researchers at the University of Texas at Austin found that at least half of bitcoin's astronomical returns last year may have been a result of manipulation.

Bitcoin’s astronomical rise last year was buoyed by market manipulation, researchers say - ( New Window )


Does this really surprise anyone? It wasn’t a natural YOY progression at all. The price is actually right around where it should be without manipulation so it makes complete sense. Actually won’t be surprised if it goes even lower before trending up again.

Hopefully people were smart enough not to invest anything they couldn’t afford to lose. And can be patient. I for one cashed out my initial investment and will be curious to see my next set of returns in a couple years.
Also threads always seems to come at the right times  
BigBlue4You09 : 6/14/2018 3:02 pm : link
Best day the market has had in weeks lol
RE: RE: RE: RE : everyone knocking the price drop in Bitcoin  
giantsfan44ab : 6/14/2018 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13991293 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 13991275 Jim in Fairfax said:


Quote:


In comment 13991259
In short, there's minimal technical difference between Bitcoin and Dennis Rodman's Potcoin. We could get the engineers on this board together and make BBI coin.


My killer idea for this craze was to create Big Baller Coin and start a battle with Lavar Ball that would hopefully result in a settlement (or even better a partnership with BBB!).

I have no interest in going through all the scam attorneys to release such a coin so someone please feel free to be my guest and all I ask in return is to think of me if it is a wild success.
I still have some  
mattlawson : 6/14/2018 3:19 pm : link
And have some penny coins as well. It was freelance money. Wife approved. It’s not my whole portfolio. I’m cool with it.
What  
AcidTest : 6/14/2018 4:16 pm : link
is the attraction of Bitcoin? That it isn't controlled by any country and is all decentralized? Some countries have banned Bitcoin. And as others have noted, the energy consumption to mine new Bitcoins is enormous. Iceland may use more energy to mine Bitcoins this year than power homes.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: My brother in law has...  
EricJ : 6/14/2018 10:10 pm : link
In comment 13991214 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 13991207 EricJ said:


Quote:


at least 20 bitcoin mines in his basement. Those things are cranking out so much heat and it is extremely noisy down there. No idea how much money he is making from those things.



Wonder what his electric bills run


He is making money. He has it all figured out. Also installed a dedicated panel for this stuff.
RE: I still believe it will rise back up  
Mike from SI : 6/15/2018 12:43 am : link
In comment 13991221 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
I'm holding onto everything I have, if I lose it, so be it

The upside is just to extreme to sell off just yet

If I sold now I would break even


This post is all I need to know which way this will go. Thanks for the insight.
RE: RE: I still believe it will rise back up  
DennyInDenville : 6/15/2018 1:11 am : link
In comment 13991662 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
In comment 13991221 DennyInDenville said:


Quote:


I'm holding onto everything I have, if I lose it, so be it

The upside is just to extreme to sell off just yet

If I sold now I would break even



This post is all I need to know which way this will go. Thanks for the insight.

Anytime, your welcome Mike
Bitcoin is a monetary good  
OB13Kenobi : 6/15/2018 4:22 am : link
thus, it cannot be valued using standard discounted cash flow analysis or by demand for their use in the production of higher order goods. Comparing it to a company like Amazon just doesn't make sense.

Bitcoin has been compared to a store of value, a Digital Gold if you will, as it shares many of the attributes that people value when they invest in gold (e.g. durability, fungibility, scarcity, etc.). A lot of the arguments against bitcoin could therefore also be made against gold. There are pro's and con's along each attribute, but the most important advantage is its censorship resistance. Bitcoin's distributed peer-to-peer network makes it almost impossible for central institutions to prevent people from transacting with each other (unlike gold).

Whether or not you value bitcoin is therefore based on a) whether you think it has the necessary attributes to act as a store of value, and b) whether the future political and economic environment will favor monetary goods that act as a store of value like gold or bitcoin.

For me personally, I'm wary of the risks of political and economic instability (inflation, geopolitical risk due to rising populism across the globe, technological disruption, etc.) and therefore think it's a good time to allocate a higher portion of your portfolio into an asset that preserves your wealth. And I just think that bitcoin is a very viable option to do that.
RE: Bitcoin is a monetary good  
OB13Kenobi : 6/15/2018 4:25 am : link
In comment 13991674 OB13Kenobi said:
Quote:
thus, it cannot be valued using standard discounted cash flow analysis or by demand for their use in the production of higher order goods. Comparing it to a company like Amazon just doesn't make sense.

Bitcoin has been compared to a store of value, a Digital Gold if you will, as it shares many of the attributes that people value when they invest in gold (e.g. durability, fungibility, scarcity, etc.). A lot of the arguments against bitcoin could therefore also be made against gold. There are pro's and con's along each attribute, but the most important advantage is its censorship resistance. Bitcoin's distributed peer-to-peer network makes it almost impossible for central institutions to prevent people from transacting with each other (unlike gold).

Whether or not you value bitcoin is therefore based on a) whether you think it has the necessary attributes to act as a store of value, and b) whether the future political and economic environment will favor monetary goods that act as a store of value like gold or bitcoin.

For me personally, I'm wary of the risks of political and economic instability (inflation, geopolitical risk due to rising populism across the globe, technological disruption, etc.) and therefore think it's a good time to allocate a higher portion of your portfolio into an asset that preserves your wealth. And I just think that bitcoin is a very viable option to do that.


I should have added c) whether you think that central institutions will seek to regulate capital flows during times of political or economic instability.
RE: Bitcoin is a monetary good  
pjcas18 : 6/15/2018 8:36 am : link
In comment 13991674 OB13Kenobi said:
Quote:
thus, it cannot be valued using standard discounted cash flow analysis or by demand for their use in the production of higher order goods. Comparing it to a company like Amazon just doesn't make sense.

Bitcoin has been compared to a store of value, a Digital Gold if you will, as it shares many of the attributes that people value when they invest in gold (e.g. durability, fungibility, scarcity, etc.). A lot of the arguments against bitcoin could therefore also be made against gold. There are pro's and con's along each attribute, but the most important advantage is its censorship resistance. Bitcoin's distributed peer-to-peer network makes it almost impossible for central institutions to prevent people from transacting with each other (unlike gold).

Whether or not you value bitcoin is therefore based on a) whether you think it has the necessary attributes to act as a store of value, and b) whether the future political and economic environment will favor monetary goods that act as a store of value like gold or bitcoin.

For me personally, I'm wary of the risks of political and economic instability (inflation, geopolitical risk due to rising populism across the globe, technological disruption, etc.) and therefore think it's a good time to allocate a higher portion of your portfolio into an asset that preserves your wealth. And I just think that bitcoin is a very viable option to do that.


It is not comparable to gold, gold is tangible and intrinsically valued.

bitcoin is artificial, the main point you omitted is the attraction to bitcoin was (and is to some) the anonymity.

It had a certain utility some people in certain industries or transactions found attractive.

So like many things, the technology to make it anonymous also had other utility like the "crypto" side of it that provided security.

The downside is it's not regulated. Unlike gold. Or insured by the FDIC, also unlike gold which to an extent is regulated and insured like other commodities.

I'm not suggesting to invest in bitcoin or not, some people have and can continue to make money investing in all the crypto currencies. I agree with other who find the blockchain infrastructure side of it more interesting and viable - so many industrial applications of blockchain that are easily (conceptually at least) commercialized that make it IMO like the next internet, it can be THAT big.

I think the biggest mistake people made was putting an actual "coin" in stories about bitcoin. Some people just don't understand it and think the image below is at least semi-literal - the only physical coins in bitcoin are memorabilia or tokens- maybe some have a wallet that doubles as a coin, but not currency like the stories and images make it seem.





Thanks for all the wise advice here  
WideRight : 6/15/2018 8:49 am : link
I just liquidated my IRA and put it all in Bitcoin

Hope for the best!
RE: Well  
BigBlue89 : 6/15/2018 9:54 am : link
In comment 13991138 cjac said:
Quote:
if you bought the ETF, ARKW, you're doing pretty well


Was it you who recommended this? Threw a few grand in and it's up 30% since I bought in. So thanks if you were the one.
Sounds like  
Rover : 6/15/2018 11:22 am : link
There is not a consenous on if bitcoin will drop or recop.
Huh??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/15/2018 11:26 am : link
Quote:
Sounds like
Rover : 11:22 am : link : reply
There is not a consenous on if bitcoin will drop or recop.


66.5% think it will drop
32.5% think it will rise
1% is trying to figure out the best way to park a fucking car in NYC
wow  
giantfan2000 : 6/15/2018 12:41 pm : link
bitcoin has no intrinsic value and it is bought and sold in an unregulated market
blockchain technology behind bitcoin is where the real value is ?
Ten years in, nobody has come up with a use for blockchain

it is just a grift and fraud ..

what I don't get is .. if you want to aggressive with your investments there are plenty of legitimate markets .. weekly options can give you insane returns in short period of time super risky but at least you are investing in real companies ..
RE: wow  
Jim in Fairfax : 6/15/2018 2:47 pm : link
In comment 13991944 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
bitcoin has no intrinsic value and it is bought and sold in an unregulated market
blockchain technology behind bitcoin is where the real value is ?
Ten years in, nobody has come up with a use for blockchain

it is just a grift and fraud ..

what I don't get is .. if you want to aggressive with your investments there are plenty of legitimate markets .. weekly options can give you insane returns in short period of time super risky but at least you are investing in real companies ..

It’s not true that nobody has come up with a use for blockchain. Many, many companies are using it including large banks like Chase and Citi, healthcare companies and more. But it’s inherently a behind the scenes thing like cloud computing that the average person has no idea how or where it exists.

Which, again, means nothing for Bitcoin since they don’t own the rights to blockchain. Blockchain could become a multi trillion dollar industry and Bitcoin gets not one dime from it.
RE: What  
widmerseyebrow : 6/15/2018 5:08 pm : link
In comment 13991380 AcidTest said:
Quote:
is the attraction of Bitcoin? That it isn't controlled by any country and is all decentralized? Some countries have banned Bitcoin. And as others have noted, the energy consumption to mine new Bitcoins is enormous. Iceland may use more energy to mine Bitcoins this year than power homes. Link - ( New Window )


I think the Libertarian fantasy is a tax free way to send and receive money. But Bitcoin is actually lousy for privacy as well, so I don't know. I own a couple non BTC cryptos. I could never find anything besides first mover advantage propping bitcoin up.
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