Good article in the WSJ today on decline in baseball attendance. Down9%overalland about7% on a per game basis factoring in
rained out games. So it’s not only the NFL that is dealing with fan interest decline.
you can watch the game on TV and it's a great experience in its' own right. The declining ratings for all of these sports isn't specific to sports - everything on TV has declined for the past decade+. The TV rights are still extremely valuable as well as the streaming.
The core thing is that the world has changed (way more entertainment options for both kids and adults) and the leagues have not done a good job continuing to expand their fanbases. They thought they were untouchable and now they are seeing they weren't. In the NFL's case they put short term growth ahead of the long term health of the game and then stopped growing while also pissing off most hardcore fans.
The weather has been abnormally bad in most of the Northeast / Midwest cities this spring. Especially here in the Northeast. I know I've personally said no to 3 Yankee games already this year from brokers I do business with because the weather was so shitty the day of. It wasn't worth the trek into the Bronx, even for free tickets and free booze.
i thought attendance was steady but viewership was down.
there is a difference.
Serious question, I don't know the answer.
It was down about 3% in 2017, after going up in 2016. And although all these leagues report tickets sold rather than turnstile attendance, presumably reported attendance in the NFL overstates actual attendance more than baseball because so many of the tickets are season tickets. If you're bummed about the Mets, you stop buying tickets, and your absence is reflected in lower ticket sales. If you were bummed about the Giants last year, maybe you found a friend or buyer, or maybe you just ate the tickets.
$40 all in? That's what it costs just to park at alot of these stadiums.
According to this link, almost every team can be attended for less than $40 per person, with one hot dog and one beer, and two people splitting parking. That said, they're taking the cheapest seats (and presumably cheapest beers and hot dogs as well). Obviously lots of fans don't like the cheap seats, though on the flip side, they're taking face value. Even at YS, it's typically pretty easy to find seats below face in the secondary market. link - ( New Window )
Purely anecdotal -- even in the heat of a pennant race last year tickets at Yankee Stadium tickets were below face for every series aside from Boston in every section 200 and above.
I'm a bleacher and cheap beer fan, so baseball is cheaper for me in the city than a movie.
I think it's because of the football players kneeling. Â
Purely anecdotal -- even in the heat of a pennant race last year tickets at Yankee Stadium tickets were below face for every series aside from Boston in every section 200 and above.
I'm a bleacher and cheap beer fan, so baseball is cheaper for me in the city than a movie.
When the Cubs were tanking, I was able to take the train from midtown Chicago to Addison and pay for a bleacher seat for a midweek game against the equally shitty Brewers for just over $40. Did not include beer or food.
between work, kids' activities, the headache of getting from Long Island to Yankee Stadium, overpriced tickets and food, and the relative unimportance of one out of 162 regular season games, I have almost no time or desire to go.
Couple those things with the way the Yankees have conducted business at the new Yankee Stadium, and it's all been a huge turnoff for me. It's all about maximizing every last dollar at the expense of a positive and affordable experience for their fans. It's just galling to turn on a game and see empty seats right behind the plate because the people with those tickets, if anyone even used them, are inside at the various restaurants or bars. Overall, it's led to me following the team less and caring about them less.
I went from being a die-hard fan 15 years ago to almost not giving a shit at all about the Yankees.
Stagnate over the past 15 years discretionary spending is starting to hit a tipping point IMO. Combined with technology and how in fan friendly the big 4 are it’s going to continue. The nba plays in smaller arena that have a large number of seats picked up by businesses so I think it will take longer for attendance to suffer
In his autobiography, Marty Appel (former Yankees PR guy) wrote about declining interest and attendance in the 70s, when it was far cheaper to go to games. See a link below for proof (some of this can be attested to more weekday afternoon games, when many people are obviously working).
Relative to baseball's history, attendance is still in pretty good shape despite the decline.
I think a lot of it is weather-based -- I got free tickets to a Yankees-Orioles game in mid-April and didn't even want to go because it was 35 degrees out -- although my gut tells me that kids are probably less interested in the sport than they were, say, 20 years ago. 1970s Baseball Attendance - ( New Window )
In his autobiography, Marty Appel (former Yankees PR guy) wrote about declining interest and attendance in the 70s, when it was far cheaper to go to games. See a link below for proof (some of this can be attested to more weekday afternoon games, when many people are obviously working).
Relative to baseball's history, attendance is still in pretty good shape despite the decline.
I think a lot of it is weather-based -- I got free tickets to a Yankees-Orioles game in mid-April and didn't even want to go because it was 35 degrees out -- although my gut tells me that kids are probably less interested in the sport than they were, say, 20 years ago. 1970s Baseball Attendance - ( New Window )
I wonder if they would ever be so bold as to not air the game live in the local market. If you want to see it live, you have to go. Otherwise it’s aired on say a 10 minute delay.
!0 minute delay is no big deal. If they will blackout, the long term impact would be to send viewers to the Net to get visitor team feed.
I wonder if they would ever be so bold as to not air the game live in the local market. If you want to see it live, you have to go. Otherwise it’s aired on say a 10 minute delay.
I'm not sure bold is the word I would use, but no, they would never do that.
they have to gouge you on cencessions too. We are literally paying money to watch your team play a game that most of us can play on our own, just at a lower level. But then you have to charge me $5 for a $0.50 hot dog and $8 for a $2 beer. Just charge normal prices and everything is cool. You have multi-millionaires who feel the need to squeeze every dime out of the mostly middle class fans who love their team.
And it’s funny that people think it’s so great that the Falcons and Ravens have lowered their concession prices. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good thing to do but they don’t deserve a pat on the back. It’s like that comedian who said, “I finally got off of drugs.” After the applause he says, “Don’t give me credit, give the people credit who never got on drugs.”
The cost just adds up when you have 55 inch HDTVs selling for 300 bucks these days offering a cheaper more relaxing option if you live in jersey or anywhere
I'll still make myself goto atleast 2-4 games to support the Yankees, I will spend lots of money at the stadium they deserve my money, this team is great. Almost feel guilty adding to this statistic
and ticket prices keep going up while baseball attendance is falling and ratings are flat. Baseball needs to improve the pace of the game and add more action (less BBs and Ks) to reach the younger generations. Otherwise, it’ll just be a local sport where people only watch when the local team is making a run.
why I do not go to more hockey or baseball games. Its just way too expensive. $100 a ticket for a decent ticket? Food parking, etc its a $500 day or more.
On top of that it's hot since it's summer and there's bugs and loudmouths. If that isn't bad enough there is the prolonged trek back to the car or train after the game with thousands of people all moving at once. I'll take the 50+ inch flat screen with central AC.
The leagues will force a hand on the networks and finagle it to be where fans have to buy to watch any game on TV. It’s coming, question is how soon and how much.
go much because the parking in Boston is horrible to find and to pay for. I can get cheap tickets but that's actually less expensive than the parking and the food expenses usually.
As people have mentioned weather was historically bad in Â
April which largely accounts for this so imo kind of a non story. The White Sox had what 800 people in attendance For that one game? Think about how that will screw with averages
Costs are too high even with a discount. Don’t see them cutting salaries or owners profits anytime soon.
$200 for four of us Yankees in B’more w kids getting in free w adult ticket purchase, plus beer, ice cream, parking, lunch etc. and that is a great deal. It adds up fast for most families and a 2hr rain delay. Not too big a deal for us, but still high for a day out and bored kids.
I’ll take my kids to a minor league game for less than half the cost and sit closer to the game.
Spectator sports in general are headed for a rude awakening.
Don’t want to pay a grand to take my boys to a Giants game all said and done to watch a poor NFL product. Can throw a heck of a party at my house and fast forward through all the commercials.
NHL games are outrageous too. Looked into Rangers tix mid season up in the 400s and said forget about it. Don’t care about basketball.
Too much greed in pro sports.
LJust take my kids to local college games and have just as much fun.
I used to go to 5-10 games a year before I had a plan. Then I did a 13 game Friday night plan with friends for a few years in the 90s until the prices started to get out of hand. Now, they are way too expensive. I take my boys to one game when I can get a deal. This year I got $15 seats. But, once in the crappy new tinbox of a stadium in the Bronx, it will cost a fortune without bringing my own arsenal of food and drinks. This is also the first or second year the Yankees went to premium pricing, so there is no chance I will see a good team either.
I had upper deck box seats on my plan, 8th row behind home plate in the old Stadium. We started at $12, then $15, then $18, then $21. So, in 4 seasons, the price nearly doubled. The equivalent of those seats in the new stadium are the 3rd deck and they are over $75 for a "regular" game.
If I went with my whole family, without discounted pricing, we are looking at a minimum of $200 just to walk in the door and sit in the upper deck in the OF.
guess the players better start standing for the anthem! Â
$40 all in? That's what it costs just to park at alot of these stadiums.
According to this link, almost every team can be attended for less than $40 per person, with one hot dog and one beer, and two people splitting parking. That said, they're taking the cheapest seats (and presumably cheapest beers and hot dogs as well). Obviously lots of fans don't like the cheap seats, though on the flip side, they're taking face value. Even at YS, it's typically pretty easy to find seats below face in the secondary market. link - ( New Window )
1. Most teams have gone to variable based pricing. So those ticket prices reflect Tuesday night April games against Tampa.
2. I dont really see a point in spending one's own money to meet up with an adult friend on a Tuesday night to watch 1 of 162 games and get home at 12:30am if the game doesnt go to extra innings. For me, its about taking my kids -- and then if I have the worst seats in the stadium or the upper deck.. whats the point, the players all look like ants.
3. That website claims beers are $5 each. Where? did they split the price of beer in half and you're sharing with your buddy?
Even when I lived in Miami - one of the cheaper stadiums around given their product and zero fan interest - to sit in the 100 level between the bags and not way down the line .. a family of four with tickets, parking, food, beer, souvenir for the kids - would run by $400+. I imagine its hard to do better than $600 for the same family at a Yankees game.
If my company isnt giving me the seats... I'm not going.
Also the article bases it off season ticket prices... Â
but those prices are way below gameday prices (as they should be for season ticket holders) -- and stubhub and ticketexchange charge up to 35% of the transaction price in fees to both buyer/seller... so you arent getting close to those prices listed unless you're braving it on craigslist or personally know the seller.
as others have said, some awful weather throughout large swaths of the country. The number of teams that are tanking or no longer seem to be going for it has increased and it's not surprising to see a number of them at the very bottom of attendance (Miami's home attendance has nearly halved; Tampa, Kansas City, the White Sox, and Pittsburgh are all doing poorly). Among competitive teams attendance is still very good, and likely to get even better with warmer weather.
but if I buy my family tickets to a matinee at the local movie theater and get them the "discounted" snack packs I'm out roughly $84. Entertainment is extraordinarily expensive nowadays.
It was a treat to go to a baseball or football game when the alternative was my 25" TV. Now it's a treat to stay home and avoid the cost, travel time, weather and hassle.
+1
Hard to justify the costs and spending a full day driving to, sitting through and driving back from a game. Watching from home, I'm done in 3 hours.
but those prices are way below gameday prices (as they should be for season ticket holders) -- and stubhub and ticketexchange charge up to 35% of the transaction price in fees to both buyer/seller... so you arent getting close to those prices listed unless you're braving it on craigslist or personally know the seller.
You don't have to use StubHub (or any other secondary site). Just walk up to the box office; there are tickets available.
And you're also dismissing the fact that "gameday" prices are often way below face as the inventory becomes distressed.
would be huge. Not sure if the NY teams allow that (?)
NYCFC allows bringing food into the stadium if everything is carried in a clear plastic bag. Water bottles have to be 1 liter or smaller. I would imagine the same rules pertain to Yankee games too.
between work, kids' activities, the headache of getting from Long Island to Yankee Stadium, overpriced tickets and food, and the relative unimportance of one out of 162 regular season games, I have almost no time or desire to go.
Couple those things with the way the Yankees have conducted business at the new Yankee Stadium, and it's all been a huge turnoff for me. It's all about maximizing every last dollar at the expense of a positive and affordable experience for their fans. It's just galling to turn on a game and see empty seats right behind the plate because the people with those tickets, if anyone even used them, are inside at the various restaurants or bars. Overall, it's led to me following the team less and caring about them less.
I went from being a die-hard fan 15 years ago to almost not giving a shit at all about the Yankees.
I despise the new Stadium. The fan experience is 100% about luxury/club seats. They don't care about anyone else, the staff is rude and not helpful, the big scoreboard is distracting, it is insulting that there are seats in the bleachers that have such obstructed views if the OF, they need TVs in the wall, the seats are further away from the action on the 3rd/4th levels, the food offerings are sub-par and way over-priced
between work, kids' activities, the headache of getting from Long Island to Yankee Stadium, overpriced tickets and food, and the relative unimportance of one out of 162 regular season games, I have almost no time or desire to go.
Couple those things with the way the Yankees have conducted business at the new Yankee Stadium, and it's all been a huge turnoff for me. It's all about maximizing every last dollar at the expense of a positive and affordable experience for their fans. It's just galling to turn on a game and see empty seats right behind the plate because the people with those tickets, if anyone even used them, are inside at the various restaurants or bars. Overall, it's led to me following the team less and caring about them less.
I went from being a die-hard fan 15 years ago to almost not giving a shit at all about the Yankees.
I despise the new Stadium. The fan experience is 100% about luxury/club seats. They don't care about anyone else, the staff is rude and not helpful, the big scoreboard is distracting, it is insulting that there are seats in the bleachers that have such obstructed views if the OF, they need TVs in the wall, the seats are further away from the action on the 3rd/4th levels, the food offerings are sub-par and way over-priced
Fuckers dont even sell ice cream anywhere except at ben & jerry and the line Was 30 deep. The food is too generic. Its not worth it to sit in the 300/400 seats, when the view is too far from the action.
The core thing is that the world has changed (way more entertainment options for both kids and adults) and the leagues have not done a good job continuing to expand their fanbases. They thought they were untouchable and now they are seeing they weren't. In the NFL's case they put short term growth ahead of the long term health of the game and then stopped growing while also pissing off most hardcore fans.
And when the average MLB experience is south of $40 all in, it's pretty hard to pin on cost.
And when the average MLB experience is south of $40 all in, it's pretty hard to pin on cost.
$40 all in? That's what it costs just to park at alot of these stadiums.
there is a difference.
Serious question, I don't know the answer.
It was down about 3% in 2017, after going up in 2016. And although all these leagues report tickets sold rather than turnstile attendance, presumably reported attendance in the NFL overstates actual attendance more than baseball because so many of the tickets are season tickets. If you're bummed about the Mets, you stop buying tickets, and your absence is reflected in lower ticket sales. If you were bummed about the Giants last year, maybe you found a friend or buyer, or maybe you just ate the tickets.
This was less than 20 years ago....
According to this link, almost every team can be attended for less than $40 per person, with one hot dog and one beer, and two people splitting parking. That said, they're taking the cheapest seats (and presumably cheapest beers and hot dogs as well). Obviously lots of fans don't like the cheap seats, though on the flip side, they're taking face value. Even at YS, it's typically pretty easy to find seats below face in the secondary market.
link - ( New Window )
I'm a bleacher and cheap beer fan, so baseball is cheaper for me in the city than a movie.
I'm a bleacher and cheap beer fan, so baseball is cheaper for me in the city than a movie.
When the Cubs were tanking, I was able to take the train from midtown Chicago to Addison and pay for a bleacher seat for a midweek game against the equally shitty Brewers for just over $40. Did not include beer or food.
Well, clearly true when you're talking about Jets fans.
Couple those things with the way the Yankees have conducted business at the new Yankee Stadium, and it's all been a huge turnoff for me. It's all about maximizing every last dollar at the expense of a positive and affordable experience for their fans. It's just galling to turn on a game and see empty seats right behind the plate because the people with those tickets, if anyone even used them, are inside at the various restaurants or bars. Overall, it's led to me following the team less and caring about them less.
I went from being a die-hard fan 15 years ago to almost not giving a shit at all about the Yankees.
Relative to baseball's history, attendance is still in pretty good shape despite the decline.
I think a lot of it is weather-based -- I got free tickets to a Yankees-Orioles game in mid-April and didn't even want to go because it was 35 degrees out -- although my gut tells me that kids are probably less interested in the sport than they were, say, 20 years ago.
1970s Baseball Attendance - ( New Window )
Relative to baseball's history, attendance is still in pretty good shape despite the decline.
I think a lot of it is weather-based -- I got free tickets to a Yankees-Orioles game in mid-April and didn't even want to go because it was 35 degrees out -- although my gut tells me that kids are probably less interested in the sport than they were, say, 20 years ago. 1970s Baseball Attendance - ( New Window )
The Bronx was also a lot less safe in the 70s.
I wonder if they would ever be so bold as to not air the game live in the local market. If you want to see it live, you have to go. Otherwise it’s aired on say a 10 minute delay.
!0 minute delay is no big deal. If they will blackout, the long term impact would be to send viewers to the Net to get visitor team feed.
I wonder if they would ever be so bold as to not air the game live in the local market. If you want to see it live, you have to go. Otherwise it’s aired on say a 10 minute delay.
I'm not sure bold is the word I would use, but no, they would never do that.
And it’s funny that people think it’s so great that the Falcons and Ravens have lowered their concession prices. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good thing to do but they don’t deserve a pat on the back. It’s like that comedian who said, “I finally got off of drugs.” After the applause he says, “Don’t give me credit, give the people credit who never got on drugs.”
The cost just adds up when you have 55 inch HDTVs selling for 300 bucks these days offering a cheaper more relaxing option if you live in jersey or anywhere
I'll still make myself goto atleast 2-4 games to support the Yankees, I will spend lots of money at the stadium they deserve my money, this team is great. Almost feel guilty adding to this statistic
I have Nats tickets and have given away over half so far. Just haven’t caught the baseball bug yet - for some reason...
Also, lots of people taping either Fox or MSNBC and baseball at the same time. No political comment intended.
$200 for four of us Yankees in B’more w kids getting in free w adult ticket purchase, plus beer, ice cream, parking, lunch etc. and that is a great deal. It adds up fast for most families and a 2hr rain delay. Not too big a deal for us, but still high for a day out and bored kids.
I’ll take my kids to a minor league game for less than half the cost and sit closer to the game.
Spectator sports in general are headed for a rude awakening.
Don’t want to pay a grand to take my boys to a Giants game all said and done to watch a poor NFL product. Can throw a heck of a party at my house and fast forward through all the commercials.
NHL games are outrageous too. Looked into Rangers tix mid season up in the 400s and said forget about it. Don’t care about basketball.
Too much greed in pro sports.
LJust take my kids to local college games and have just as much fun.
In comment 13992232 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
When the pennant races kick up and Boston, New York, Chicago, Southern California, Houston and Seattle are in play the outlook will be very different.
And when the average MLB experience is south of $40 all in, it's pretty hard to pin on cost.
$40 all in? That's what it costs just to park at alot of these stadiums.
I had upper deck box seats on my plan, 8th row behind home plate in the old Stadium. We started at $12, then $15, then $18, then $21. So, in 4 seasons, the price nearly doubled. The equivalent of those seats in the new stadium are the 3rd deck and they are over $75 for a "regular" game.
If I went with my whole family, without discounted pricing, we are looking at a minimum of $200 just to walk in the door and sit in the upper deck in the OF.
Quote:
$40 all in? That's what it costs just to park at alot of these stadiums.
According to this link, almost every team can be attended for less than $40 per person, with one hot dog and one beer, and two people splitting parking. That said, they're taking the cheapest seats (and presumably cheapest beers and hot dogs as well). Obviously lots of fans don't like the cheap seats, though on the flip side, they're taking face value. Even at YS, it's typically pretty easy to find seats below face in the secondary market. link - ( New Window )
1. Most teams have gone to variable based pricing. So those ticket prices reflect Tuesday night April games against Tampa.
2. I dont really see a point in spending one's own money to meet up with an adult friend on a Tuesday night to watch 1 of 162 games and get home at 12:30am if the game doesnt go to extra innings. For me, its about taking my kids -- and then if I have the worst seats in the stadium or the upper deck.. whats the point, the players all look like ants.
3. That website claims beers are $5 each. Where? did they split the price of beer in half and you're sharing with your buddy?
Even when I lived in Miami - one of the cheaper stadiums around given their product and zero fan interest - to sit in the 100 level between the bags and not way down the line .. a family of four with tickets, parking, food, beer, souvenir for the kids - would run by $400+. I imagine its hard to do better than $600 for the same family at a Yankees game.
If my company isnt giving me the seats... I'm not going.
Can bring food and drink (this is allowed)
Parking $15
Total cost = $107.
1 ballpark food item each would bring it up around $140.
+1
Hard to justify the costs and spending a full day driving to, sitting through and driving back from a game. Watching from home, I'm done in 3 hours.
Smallball sucks
You don't have to use StubHub (or any other secondary site). Just walk up to the box office; there are tickets available.
And you're also dismissing the fact that "gameday" prices are often way below face as the inventory becomes distressed.
NYCFC allows bringing food into the stadium if everything is carried in a clear plastic bag. Water bottles have to be 1 liter or smaller. I would imagine the same rules pertain to Yankee games too.
Quote:
hardly any steals, hit and runs,. I saw a squeeze play the other night and it was rare and beautiful to watch
Smallball sucks
any positives to small ball are immediately negated by requiring pitchers to hit or even bunt. It's awful.
Couple those things with the way the Yankees have conducted business at the new Yankee Stadium, and it's all been a huge turnoff for me. It's all about maximizing every last dollar at the expense of a positive and affordable experience for their fans. It's just galling to turn on a game and see empty seats right behind the plate because the people with those tickets, if anyone even used them, are inside at the various restaurants or bars. Overall, it's led to me following the team less and caring about them less.
I went from being a die-hard fan 15 years ago to almost not giving a shit at all about the Yankees.
Quote:
between work, kids' activities, the headache of getting from Long Island to Yankee Stadium, overpriced tickets and food, and the relative unimportance of one out of 162 regular season games, I have almost no time or desire to go.
Couple those things with the way the Yankees have conducted business at the new Yankee Stadium, and it's all been a huge turnoff for me. It's all about maximizing every last dollar at the expense of a positive and affordable experience for their fans. It's just galling to turn on a game and see empty seats right behind the plate because the people with those tickets, if anyone even used them, are inside at the various restaurants or bars. Overall, it's led to me following the team less and caring about them less.
I went from being a die-hard fan 15 years ago to almost not giving a shit at all about the Yankees.
I despise the new Stadium. The fan experience is 100% about luxury/club seats. They don't care about anyone else, the staff is rude and not helpful, the big scoreboard is distracting, it is insulting that there are seats in the bleachers that have such obstructed views if the OF, they need TVs in the wall, the seats are further away from the action on the 3rd/4th levels, the food offerings are sub-par and way over-priced
Fuckers dont even sell ice cream anywhere except at ben & jerry and the line Was 30 deep. The food is too generic. Its not worth it to sit in the 300/400 seats, when the view is too far from the action.