was a painful loss in a season of painful losses. To this day, the two Dallas losses that year are two of the most devastating that I witnessed.
I still maintain 1988 was worse, at least they made the playoffs in 1985. But I still have visions of friggin Too Tall Jones and Jim Jeffcoat from that year.
'88 was bad too, but the Giants just blew too many games in '85 they had in the bag. The first Dallas game on Monday night they came from behind for what should have been a win, then Bart Oates and Simms botch the exchange when running out the clock.
was a painful loss in a season of painful losses. To this day, the two Dallas losses that year are two of the most devastating that I witnessed.
No doubt. The dallas losses had a weird shitty Philly loss vibe to them that year. Giants really had no business losing the division title that year but it wasn’t their year anyway. 85 bears were all but preordained and just dominant....
than Dallas that year. No way they shouldn't have won the division. At the time I felt near despair as it felt like they would never conquer the Cowboys.
Silver lining: they had to play in the Wild Card game and for the first time they beat the Walsh 49ers. Pretty easily too. Had they won the division they would have played the Rams and a win over the Rams would have been meh. They needed to prove they could beat the Niners to take the next step. I felt real good about the future after that Wild Card game.
than Dallas that year. No way they shouldn't have won the division. At the time I felt near despair as it felt like they would never conquer the Cowboys.
Silver lining: they had to play in the Wild Card game and for the first time they beat the Walsh 49ers. Pretty easily too. Had they won the division they would have played the Rams and a win over the Rams would have been meh. They needed to prove they could beat the Niners to take the next step. I felt real good about the future after that Wild Card game.
^^^THIS^^^
The Giants were much, much better than Dallas that year.
It's amazing what a seasoned quarterback can do when he has an offensive line that can provide great pass protection. Eli would have flourished with that line!
It's amazing what a seasoned quarterback can do when he has an offensive line that can provide great pass protection. Eli would have flourished with that line!
Maybe. But what would Simms have done in a more passing-oriented offense, with no contact rules against DBs, and OBJ, Plexico and Hicks as his receivers...instead of Manual, Perkins, Gray and McConkey?
It's amazing what a seasoned quarterback can do when he has an offensive line that can provide great pass protection. Eli would have flourished with that line!
Maybe. But what would Simms have done in a more passing-oriented offense, with no contact rules against DBs, and OBJ, Plexico and Hicks as his receivers...instead of Manual, Perkins, Gray and McConkey?
We got a taste of exactly that in 1993, when the Giants picked up Mike Sherrard. Speed and quickness like a gazelle with great hands, after 12 long years, Phil Simms finally had a legitimate threat at WR, and oh, there were plays. Opened up the offense.
But Sherrard was made of glass, oft-injured in his career in Dallas and S.F., on a play where he broke open and was running for the endzone untouched, his hip broke.
Until Toomers career blossomed, Giant fans didn't even know what a legit WR looked like. We hyped journeymen, average receivers like Earnest Gray, Lionel Manuel, Mark Ingraham would not have started on most rosters, role players like McConkey, Johnny Perkins, John Mistler would have had trouble even finding a spot on other teams.
Frankly, Simms made ALL of these guys better than they were.
I remember doing a comparison of Simms and Montana, comparing sacks. Phil Simms is lucky to have even survived FIVE years the rate he was getting creamed. That early 80's OL was run-oriented only. 3rd and longs were nightmares.
I was not really eaten up by the tough losses in 1985. Sure as hell beat The Fumble.
And it’s the year they learned what it took to win. It set up 1986.
By 1985 I was expecting more from the Giants. They had made the playoffs and won wild card games. Time to take the next step. Win the division and establish themselves as Super Bowl contenders. Teams built slowly in those days usually taking one step at a time. Even though the team was better in 1985 they didn't seem to have made the next step at least not until they beat the Niners WC weekend which did seem more impressive to me than beating the Rams the year before.
I was not really eaten up by the tough losses in 1985. Sure as hell beat The Fumble.
And it’s the year they learned what it took to win. It set up 1986.
By 1985 I was expecting more from the Giants. They had made the playoffs and won wild card games. Time to take the next step. Win the division and establish themselves as Super Bowl contenders. Teams built slowly in those days usually taking one step at a time. Even though the team was better in 1985 they didn't seem to have made the next step at least not until they beat the Niners WC weekend which did seem more impressive to me than beating the Rams the year before.
It was a dream, every step of the way.
From The Fumble to drafting Simms and LT, to picking up Rob Carpenter, then beating Dallas to claim a wildcard spot in 81 and BEATING the defending NFC-champ Eagles, to losing Ray Perkins and having Parcells first year suck and Simms-Brunner QB battles and the disastrous 83 season - to have out of that hope and rubble arise a playoff contender, to start beating Superbowl teams like the Niners, the Rams, the Redskins - to losing in Chicago in 85'...
The struggle of the 86' season, grinding out those wins, and finally, FINALLY becoming a powerhouse and laying waste to everything in their path.
To me, it was the greatest long-form sports event I ever witnessed, from Fumble to Lombardi, 7 drama-packed, amazing years.
And I was lucky enough to have a seat in that stadium for much of it.
It was a thing of beauty watching a healthy Phil Simms play behind a good offensive line. On each of those plays, he knew exactly where to go with the ball, went through his progressions, and got rid of it quickly.
Also, just watching this is a sad remind of how much the game has declined in recent years. The game was so much better, crisper, tougher, and prettier to watch back then.
No one threw them better than Phil Simms. Can you imagine the numbers he would have put up it if Bill Walsh was able to draft him? Injuries at the beginning and end of his career robbed Simms of his spot in the HOF but he was a HOF QB and talent.
Too Tall play prepped me well for things like the 97 and 2002 playoff losses.
I haven't watched the '85 Dallas games since I saw them live, but I will always loathe Jim Jeffcoat. How the hell did he happen to be 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage when the pass was tipped? So he gets rewarded for being completely out of the play? Grr...
loss to Cinci was a matter of team sleepwalking in first half and then a furious comeback.
The Cleveland game was one of the worst losses I can remember to date.
The Redskins loss on Monday night that ended Theismann's career was also a tough one.
And the GB loss was tight.
Of course they won a lot of tight ones like @Eagles, Bucs and Rams but seems like they should have been better than 10-6--in fact, good argument could be made they were the second best team in the league that year.
In comment 13993434 bluepepper said:
Quote:.....
It was a dream, every step of the way.
From The Fumble to drafting Simms and LT, to picking up Rob Carpenter, then beating Dallas to claim a wildcard spot in 81 and BEATING the defending NFC-champ Eagles, to losing Ray Perkins and having Parcells first year suck and Simms-Brunner QB battles and the disastrous 83 season - to have out of that hope and rubble arise a playoff contender, to start beating Superbowl teams like the Niners, the Rams, the Redskins - to losing in Chicago in 85'...
The struggle of the 86' season, grinding out those wins, and finally, FINALLY becoming a powerhouse and laying waste to everything in their path.
To me, it was the greatest long-form sports event I ever witnessed, from Fumble to Lombardi, 7 drama-packed, amazing years.
And I was lucky enough to have a seat in that stadium for much of it.
x-meadowlander, nice post, feel very much the same way. Each successive season during that decade or so, you began with tempered but higher expectations, a little more bounce in your Giants' step, and then when Parcells really put his stamp on the team, along with LT (and Banks, Carson, Reasons), you felt damn good. The Bears were primed and ready and deserved it all in '85, but we were Crown Prince in waiting. Damn!
And what a joy 1985 was. The Giants were a dominant team. I had watched since the 1960s - through the 70s' Then The Fumble. The single most important play in Giants sports in my lifetime. It started a process. George Young. Phil Simms. LT. 1981 playoffs. Year after year of very steady improvement. Watching an artist (George Young) build his lifetime achievement.
And by the end of 1985 it was clear. This was a dynasty (and that is the sole thing that saddens me - the team that dominated that next season ending with the 86 SB - that team should have won 4-5 SB, not 2... but the damn strike fucked everything up).
Watching that clip of Simms brought back such wonderful memories. Thank you.
PB
PB
I miss Pill Barcells.
Quote:
Phil, If you don't throw at least 2 interceptions today, you're not taking enough chances !!
PB
I miss Pill Barcells.
Too me!
PB
Yeah who is PB?
you must mean BP right? Bill Parcells?
I think you got that one backwards...
I still maintain 1988 was worse, at least they made the playoffs in 1985. But I still have visions of friggin Too Tall Jones and Jim Jeffcoat from that year.
Don't get me started on the game in Dallas.
No doubt. The dallas losses had a weird shitty Philly loss vibe to them that year. Giants really had no business losing the division title that year but it wasn’t their year anyway. 85 bears were all but preordained and just dominant....
Silver lining: they had to play in the Wild Card game and for the first time they beat the Walsh 49ers. Pretty easily too. Had they won the division they would have played the Rams and a win over the Rams would have been meh. They needed to prove they could beat the Niners to take the next step. I felt real good about the future after that Wild Card game.
Silver lining: they had to play in the Wild Card game and for the first time they beat the Walsh 49ers. Pretty easily too. Had they won the division they would have played the Rams and a win over the Rams would have been meh. They needed to prove they could beat the Niners to take the next step. I felt real good about the future after that Wild Card game.
^^^THIS^^^
The Giants were much, much better than Dallas that year.
And it’s the year they learned what it took to win. It set up 1986.
Eli s in the conversation, but so are those two guys, Simms probably more so because Tittle came to the Giant late in his career.
Maybe. But what would Simms have done in a more passing-oriented offense, with no contact rules against DBs, and OBJ, Plexico and Hicks as his receivers...instead of Manual, Perkins, Gray and McConkey?
Quote:
It's amazing what a seasoned quarterback can do when he has an offensive line that can provide great pass protection. Eli would have flourished with that line!
Maybe. But what would Simms have done in a more passing-oriented offense, with no contact rules against DBs, and OBJ, Plexico and Hicks as his receivers...instead of Manual, Perkins, Gray and McConkey?
But Sherrard was made of glass, oft-injured in his career in Dallas and S.F., on a play where he broke open and was running for the endzone untouched, his hip broke.
Until Toomers career blossomed, Giant fans didn't even know what a legit WR looked like. We hyped journeymen, average receivers like Earnest Gray, Lionel Manuel, Mark Ingraham would not have started on most rosters, role players like McConkey, Johnny Perkins, John Mistler would have had trouble even finding a spot on other teams.
Frankly, Simms made ALL of these guys better than they were.
I remember doing a comparison of Simms and Montana, comparing sacks. Phil Simms is lucky to have even survived FIVE years the rate he was getting creamed. That early 80's OL was run-oriented only. 3rd and longs were nightmares.
And it’s the year they learned what it took to win. It set up 1986.
By 1985 I was expecting more from the Giants. They had made the playoffs and won wild card games. Time to take the next step. Win the division and establish themselves as Super Bowl contenders. Teams built slowly in those days usually taking one step at a time. Even though the team was better in 1985 they didn't seem to have made the next step at least not until they beat the Niners WC weekend which did seem more impressive to me than beating the Rams the year before.
Quote:
I was not really eaten up by the tough losses in 1985. Sure as hell beat The Fumble.
And it’s the year they learned what it took to win. It set up 1986.
By 1985 I was expecting more from the Giants. They had made the playoffs and won wild card games. Time to take the next step. Win the division and establish themselves as Super Bowl contenders. Teams built slowly in those days usually taking one step at a time. Even though the team was better in 1985 they didn't seem to have made the next step at least not until they beat the Niners WC weekend which did seem more impressive to me than beating the Rams the year before.
From The Fumble to drafting Simms and LT, to picking up Rob Carpenter, then beating Dallas to claim a wildcard spot in 81 and BEATING the defending NFC-champ Eagles, to losing Ray Perkins and having Parcells first year suck and Simms-Brunner QB battles and the disastrous 83 season - to have out of that hope and rubble arise a playoff contender, to start beating Superbowl teams like the Niners, the Rams, the Redskins - to losing in Chicago in 85'...
The struggle of the 86' season, grinding out those wins, and finally, FINALLY becoming a powerhouse and laying waste to everything in their path.
To me, it was the greatest long-form sports event I ever witnessed, from Fumble to Lombardi, 7 drama-packed, amazing years.
And I was lucky enough to have a seat in that stadium for much of it.
Also, just watching this is a sad remind of how much the game has declined in recent years. The game was so much better, crisper, tougher, and prettier to watch back then.
I haven't watched the '85 Dallas games since I saw them live, but I will always loathe Jim Jeffcoat. How the hell did he happen to be 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage when the pass was tipped? So he gets rewarded for being completely out of the play? Grr...
loss to Cinci was a matter of team sleepwalking in first half and then a furious comeback.
The Cleveland game was one of the worst losses I can remember to date.
The Redskins loss on Monday night that ended Theismann's career was also a tough one.
And the GB loss was tight.
Of course they won a lot of tight ones like @Eagles, Bucs and Rams but seems like they should have been better than 10-6--in fact, good argument could be made they were the second best team in the league that year.
If it didn't kill them... It made them stronger ; ). We won the SB the next season.
Quote:.....
It was a dream, every step of the way.
From The Fumble to drafting Simms and LT, to picking up Rob Carpenter, then beating Dallas to claim a wildcard spot in 81 and BEATING the defending NFC-champ Eagles, to losing Ray Perkins and having Parcells first year suck and Simms-Brunner QB battles and the disastrous 83 season - to have out of that hope and rubble arise a playoff contender, to start beating Superbowl teams like the Niners, the Rams, the Redskins - to losing in Chicago in 85'...
The struggle of the 86' season, grinding out those wins, and finally, FINALLY becoming a powerhouse and laying waste to everything in their path.
To me, it was the greatest long-form sports event I ever witnessed, from Fumble to Lombardi, 7 drama-packed, amazing years.
And I was lucky enough to have a seat in that stadium for much of it.
And by the end of 1985 it was clear. This was a dynasty (and that is the sole thing that saddens me - the team that dominated that next season ending with the 86 SB - that team should have won 4-5 SB, not 2... but the damn strike fucked everything up).
Watching that clip of Simms brought back such wonderful memories. Thank you.