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NFT: Cancer: If you had to do daily chemo/radiation for 6-8 weeks

SGMen : 6/18/2018 8:34 am
what would you do?

1. Just follow the doctor's orders and push through?

2 Follow the doctor's orders for chemotherapy but also I'd take on a holistic lifestyle of just organic vegetables & fruits; organic herbal Chaga & herbal teas; Chaga tincture; Ceylon cinnamon, clean purified water, sunlight, etc.

I'd do #2 of course so it boggles my mind that a friend isn't considering the herbal path. She has the desire to live, for sure.

Thoughts? Experiences??
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RE: RE: RE: SGMen  
giants#1 : 6/19/2018 1:27 pm : link
In comment 13994442 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13994256 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 13994191 Ned In Atlanta said:


Quote:


Lost me when he made his subtle anti-vaxxer quack comment

Subtle?

He flat out said that vaccines cause autism which has been definitively shown to be a fake statement.

Please do not mis-quote me. Vaccines are not my area of expertise. I do believe the lack of synergistic studies and some of the ingredients found make vaccines questionable.
I also know of quite a few women, mothers who work so hard, who attribute their child's autism to vaccination.
The points above simply speak to what I have learned; however, I've never studied vaccines nor have I ever had to make a choice to vaccinate or not and that makes me unqualified to speak to the issue with any authority.


"Working hard" doesn't mean the women are intelligent or competently able to diagnose the cause of their child's autism.

However, the Drs and researchers that spent years searching for a link between autism and vaccines are quite qualified and can (and do) say with certainty that there is no link.
RE: RE: RE: RE: SGMen  
SGMen : 6/19/2018 1:33 pm : link
In comment 13994453 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13994442 SGMen said:


Quote:


In comment 13994256 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 13994191 Ned In Atlanta said:


Quote:


Lost me when he made his subtle anti-vaxxer quack comment

Subtle?

He flat out said that vaccines cause autism which has been definitively shown to be a fake statement.

Please do not mis-quote me. Vaccines are not my area of expertise. I do believe the lack of synergistic studies and some of the ingredients found make vaccines questionable.
I also know of quite a few women, mothers who work so hard, who attribute their child's autism to vaccination.
The points above simply speak to what I have learned; however, I've never studied vaccines nor have I ever had to make a choice to vaccinate or not and that makes me unqualified to speak to the issue with any authority.



"Working hard" doesn't mean the women are intelligent or competently able to diagnose the cause of their child's autism.

However, the Drs and researchers that spent years searching for a link between autism and vaccines are quite qualified and can (and do) say with certainty that there is no link.
These women work hard to be SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS in understanding AUTISM: its treatments, causes, research, etc. Many are doctors themselves!

Are they correct when they post their own research or correlations? I can't answer that as I am but an observer who has an open mind; is willing to listen & learn; and, to admit his limitations - I am simply not qualified to speak to the issue with any authority.

The fact that AUTISM rates have been rising is an issue, for sure. Do we know exactly why? I honestly don't know.
Part of the problem is that the lack of vaccination  
Bill L : 6/19/2018 1:51 pm : link
carries great societal risk. Mothers making phony links are not just wrong, but dangerous.
And, I am glad that you don not eschew the advise of doctors  
Bill L : 6/19/2018 1:54 pm : link
but other people might read what you're saying and substitute that other stuff for actual medicine. There are plenty of people out there who do that. And all that other stuff might make you feel good because it's playing with your psyche, but I can assure you that it ain't doing squat to shrink your tumor.
RE: And, I am glad that you don not eschew the advise of doctors  
SGMen : 6/19/2018 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13994470 Bill L said:
Quote:
but other people might read what you're saying and substitute that other stuff for actual medicine. There are plenty of people out there who do that. And all that other stuff might make you feel good because it's playing with your psyche, but I can assure you that it ain't doing squat to shrink your tumor.
I am going to disagree with you a bit here because, again, I know a number of people who were diagnosed with cancers, some stage 4, who NEVER went the Traditional Route yet healed by completely revamping their lifestyle. But at the same token, many have tried holistic measures and are deceased.

Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.

My whole point here in posting is to get a feel for how people (and men in general, as I'd bet the majority of folks on BBI are men) look at holistic protocols. If I had posted in one of my social media forums, the results would be skewed toward women and people that are in the holistic healing world.

In SUMMARY, nothing posted above has surprised me in any way or hurt me. I've listened to arguments both "Pro and Con" on many health issues. But one thing I can tell you: Integrative Medicine is getting praise from combat veterans and veterans in general, folks like me, because the approaches are often just common sense in a world that no longer lives to shall we say "God's design for us" - give yourself a chance. One small change, like drinking clean, purified water for a change, can bring about massive healing to someone who hasn't been hydrated properly for likely a LONG time.

And no one here has offended me in the least. Nada.

RE: RE: And, I am glad that you don not eschew the advise of doctors  
Heisenberg : 6/19/2018 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13994478 SGMen said:
Quote:
I am going to disagree with you a bit here because, again, I know a number of people who were diagnosed with cancers, some stage 4, who NEVER went the Traditional Route yet healed by completely revamping their lifestyle. But at the same token, many have tried holistic measures and are deceased.


I do not believe this claim, that folks with Stage 4 cancers "healed by completely revamping their lifestyle". I do not believe it at all.
Hass  
McNally's_Nuts : 6/19/2018 9:58 pm : link
Avacado's cure cancer.

-SGMen
RE: Hass  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 4:59 am : link
In comment 13994846 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
Avacado's cure cancer.

-SGMen
Avocado's are one of the best fruits (berries) one can eat for great health as they are very nutrient dense. While I eat at least 1/2 an avocado a day.

Also, if you read my post, my entire premise is to give one the BEST chance for healing and that always involves a WHOLE PERSON approach. Nowhere have I said not to follow your doctor's protocols but rather to consider making lifestyle changes that will give you and your body the best chance to heal.

The human body has an amazing ability to heal itself but it must be properly nourished: spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally. A few simple changes can completely enable the body to build its defenses and heal.

One area that I am very much interested in learning is the brain to gut microbiome connection. We currently understand less than 3% of iit all, and that is a guess/estimate I took away from a conference I attended.

One study showed alcoholics in remission ALL had less than optimal gut microbiome! That means their gut is likely not as able to produce serotonin and communicate with the brain at an optimal level.

Finally, I find it fascinating that women will be open to "Whole person" healing whereas men tend to push away. Now, as women are wired differently than men, I get it. Women are also primary care-takers of children even in dual parent homes so their interests in helping their sick or struggling child often leads them to consider any and all options.

I do believe in as little as five years we will begin to see a more "organic" approach to farming here in the United States. The obesity rates in the United States are frankly, quite freightening. We simply do not get the hydration, nutrition, sleep, rest, etc., that we naturally need to be at our best (or at least better of!!!).
RE: RE: SGMen  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 5:02 am : link
In comment 13994256 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13994191 Ned In Atlanta said:


Quote:


Lost me when he made his subtle anti-vaxxer quack comment

Subtle?

He flat out said that vaccines cause autism which has been definitively shown to be a fake statement.
Bill L, again, I NEVER said that vaccines cause autism. I just noted that many see a correlation. Vaccines and Autism are not my area of expertise and I noted that from the outset. Why would you assume this? I'd be interested in understanding your conclusion above?
RE: RE: RE: SGMen  
Bill L : 6/20/2018 7:14 am : link
In comment 13994914 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13994256 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 13994191 Ned In Atlanta said:


Quote:


Lost me when he made his subtle anti-vaxxer quack comment

Subtle?

He flat out said that vaccines cause autism which has been definitively shown to be a fake statement.

Bill L, again, I NEVER said that vaccines cause autism. I just noted that many see a correlation. Vaccines and Autism are not my area of expertise and I noted that from the outset. Why would you assume this? I'd be interested in understanding your conclusion above?
People who lack knowledge see a correlation. They likely also see ghosts, aliens, and people talking in tongues, waving of the hands and other such holistic approaches curing terminal consitions.
RE: RE: RE: RE: SGMen  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 8:26 am : link
In comment 13994927 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13994914 SGMen said:


Quote:


In comment 13994256 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 13994191 Ned In Atlanta said:


Quote:


Lost me when he made his subtle anti-vaxxer quack comment

Subtle?

He flat out said that vaccines cause autism which has been definitively shown to be a fake statement.

Bill L, again, I NEVER said that vaccines cause autism. I just noted that many see a correlation. Vaccines and Autism are not my area of expertise and I noted that from the outset. Why would you assume this? I'd be interested in understanding your conclusion above?

People who lack knowledge see a correlation. They likely also see ghosts, aliens, and people talking in tongues, waving of the hands and other such holistic approaches curing terminal consitions.
I understand your thinking now. All of these mother's of children with autism "lack knowledge" despite their research, discussions with doctors, treatments, education, etc. Now I am clear as to your thinking, thanks. :(
Primary vs secondary reasearch  
WideRight : 6/20/2018 8:38 am : link
Reading articles on the net and talking with doctors is not reasearch. Thats pure readers bias - people will read what they want to read to rationalize their thinking, basically just what you are doing now.

Research is collecting relevant, objective data, testing hypotheses and publishing results in peer-reviewed journals. So everything that BillL and others have said on this thread is correct.

They shouldn't have insulted you, because now you think its personal. Its not. You are just wrong. Thats all.
In summary, so as there no confusion  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 8:40 am : link
My core belief is simple: the closer you live to God's original design for us the healthier you will likely be. There are no guarantees in life and I think we all know that to be true.

As I noted above, I like many of you had my reservations about holistic protocols and organic this and that. But when you are in enough pain; when you have laboratory reports from blood, urine, saliva, stool and hair samples that TELL YOU what is going on with you that is causing your problems, you begin to see and realize that living a "clean" lifestyle is best. It is a journey, baby steps at times, and perfection is of the devil so do your best.

I challenge BBI to make one small change in any of these areas (your choice) and tell me how you feel after 30 days?

- drink clean, purified water. Bottled water doesn't count. The TOP simple filter is ZERO Water. A reverse osmosis filter or distillation are both great tools to clean your water. Here is the hard part: try to drink 1oz of water for roughly every 2 pounds you weigh. I personally start my day with 20oz of water before my "feet hit the ground" upon waking. Your body & brain will love you.
-try to turn off your smart phone, tv, laptop, etc., at least an hour before bed. Try to go to bed at the same time each night. And, here is the hard part: do not look at your social media or emails for the first 2 hours of your day.
-consider turning off your smartphone & wifi router before bed.

Its the little stuff. Stuff that we don't often really maybe think about that can lead to dramatic improvements. I won't lie: despite my "Gulf War Illness" and other health limitations I am in better shape than 99% of guys age 50 and over. It is all about choices; about having an open mind; about not judging but trying to understand; and, about what you can handle for yourself.

"It works when you work it so work it and LIVE...." - amen!
RE: Primary vs secondary reasearch  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 8:46 am : link
In comment 13994943 WideRight said:
Quote:
Reading articles on the net and talking with doctors is not reasearch. Thats pure readers bias - people will read what they want to read to rationalize their thinking, basically just what you are doing now.

Research is collecting relevant, objective data, testing hypotheses and publishing results in peer-reviewed journals. So everything that BillL and others have said on this thread is correct.

They shouldn't have insulted you, because now you think its personal. Its not. You are just wrong. Thats all.
I never took or would ever take anything personally. Research isn't just for researchers (doctors) but its about having conversations: at conferences, with your doctor, with 2nd opinion doctors, with the school & teacher, with reading journal articles, with listening to the MD's and Phd's who are in your circles as they can offer the best guidance, etc. To assume that "mother's have no knowledge" strikes me as just, well, nonsense. Now, not every mom is going to get it right or have the capacity & skills to really understand but many, many do.

I'm about RESULTS. If something produces results I'm interested in knowing about it and the why.

As I noted above as well, there are unfortunately a lot of shall we say "charlatains" out there who claim this magic mushroom will rid you of this; our detox potion is #1; our 30 day program will help you lose 10 pounds and keep it off; etc., well you get it.
THERE IS NO LINK BETWEEN AUTISM AND VACCINES  
giants#1 : 6/20/2018 9:06 am : link
You keep hinting at this Big Pharma conspiracy to keep cancer "cures" away from patients, but you know what is fucking cured? Measles

And yet because of the spread of holistic nonsense and anti-vax idiots, we're seeing outbreaks of a cured disease.
MN Measles Outbreak 2017 - ( New Window )
I have nothing against living a healthy lifestyle  
Bill L : 6/20/2018 9:09 am : link
I think that overall, you'll end up being...um, healthier.

I do have something against contentions that vague treatments or "lifestyle" changes, will cure specific medical conditions, such as cancer. There are mechanistic reasons why cancer has occurred or persists and specific targeting of those mechanisms, and, especially, features unique to tumor cells, is that only way in which the tumor might be removed.

I also am not buying *anyone* (mothers, fathers, guys who make money off treatments and show up at conferences to push their treatments) who suggests any linkage between autism and vaccines. Actual, specific scientific research has disproven any. That's not even counting the fact that almost no vaccine has had thimerosol (the mercury you mentioned) in years. And, I actually do have some experience in reading primary literature and in have, at least my own opinion, a fairly decent working knowledge of how vaccines (and immunity in general) work. So, I'm okay with characterizing "moms" claiming correlations as people with no knowledge.
RE: THERE IS NO LINK BETWEEN AUTISM AND VACCINES  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 9:09 am : link
In comment 13994963 giants#1 said:
Quote:
You keep hinting at this Big Pharma conspiracy to keep cancer "cures" away from patients, but you know what is fucking cured? Measles

And yet because of the spread of holistic nonsense and anti-vax idiots, we're seeing outbreaks of a cured disease. MN Measles Outbreak 2017 - ( New Window )
again, I never said there is any conspiracy. I mean even if there was one how would I KNOW as I'm not in the industry?
I give the thought some merit but have no clue as vaccines are not an area I have studied.

I hope this clarifies things.
RE: I have nothing against living a healthy lifestyle  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 9:11 am : link
In comment 13994965 Bill L said:
Quote:
I think that overall, you'll end up being...um, healthier.

I do have something against contentions that vague treatments or "lifestyle" changes, will cure specific medical conditions, such as cancer. There are mechanistic reasons why cancer has occurred or persists and specific targeting of those mechanisms, and, especially, features unique to tumor cells, is that only way in which the tumor might be removed.

I also am not buying *anyone* (mothers, fathers, guys who make money off treatments and show up at conferences to push their treatments) who suggests any linkage between autism and vaccines. Actual, specific scientific research has disproven any. That's not even counting the fact that almost no vaccine has had thimerosol (the mercury you mentioned) in years. And, I actually do have some experience in reading primary literature and in have, at least my own opinion, a fairly decent working knowledge of how vaccines (and immunity in general) work. So, I'm okay with characterizing "moms" claiming correlations as people with no knowledge.
did I ever say lifestyle changes cure cancer? Nope.
RE: RE: I have nothing against living a healthy lifestyle  
Bill L : 6/20/2018 9:12 am : link
In comment 13994968 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13994965 Bill L said:


Quote:


I think that overall, you'll end up being...um, healthier.

I do have something against contentions that vague treatments or "lifestyle" changes, will cure specific medical conditions, such as cancer. There are mechanistic reasons why cancer has occurred or persists and specific targeting of those mechanisms, and, especially, features unique to tumor cells, is that only way in which the tumor might be removed.

I also am not buying *anyone* (mothers, fathers, guys who make money off treatments and show up at conferences to push their treatments) who suggests any linkage between autism and vaccines. Actual, specific scientific research has disproven any. That's not even counting the fact that almost no vaccine has had thimerosol (the mercury you mentioned) in years. And, I actually do have some experience in reading primary literature and in have, at least my own opinion, a fairly decent working knowledge of how vaccines (and immunity in general) work. So, I'm okay with characterizing "moms" claiming correlations as people with no knowledge.

did I ever say lifestyle changes cure cancer? Nope.
You said it boggled your mind how people didn't adopt one as a treatment of their tumor.
RE: RE: RE: I have nothing against living a healthy lifestyle  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 9:17 am : link
In comment 13994969 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13994968 SGMen said:


Quote:


In comment 13994965 Bill L said:


Quote:


I think that overall, you'll end up being...um, healthier.

I do have something against contentions that vague treatments or "lifestyle" changes, will cure specific medical conditions, such as cancer. There are mechanistic reasons why cancer has occurred or persists and specific targeting of those mechanisms, and, especially, features unique to tumor cells, is that only way in which the tumor might be removed.

I also am not buying *anyone* (mothers, fathers, guys who make money off treatments and show up at conferences to push their treatments) who suggests any linkage between autism and vaccines. Actual, specific scientific research has disproven any. That's not even counting the fact that almost no vaccine has had thimerosol (the mercury you mentioned) in years. And, I actually do have some experience in reading primary literature and in have, at least my own opinion, a fairly decent working knowledge of how vaccines (and immunity in general) work. So, I'm okay with characterizing "moms" claiming correlations as people with no knowledge.

did I ever say lifestyle changes cure cancer? Nope.

You said it boggled your mind how people didn't adopt one as a treatment of their tumor.
you are then not understanding: making lifestyle changes will most definitely give you & your body a BETTER chance to get through cancer treatment successfully. Prevention even moreso.
so would wearing red clothes  
Bill L : 6/20/2018 9:19 am : link
so long as it makes you feel better. I've no complaints about that.

But that doesn't mean that people choosing not to do those things should boggle your mind; they will not fare any worse, than those who do.

RE: so would wearing red clothes  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 9:21 am : link
In comment 13994976 Bill L said:
Quote:
so long as it makes you feel better. I've no complaints about that.

But that doesn't mean that people choosing not to do those things should boggle your mind; they will not fare any worse, than those who do.
on that, I'd disagree. But we can agree to disagree.
RE: RE: so would wearing red clothes  
Bill L : 6/20/2018 9:26 am : link
In comment 13994979 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13994976 Bill L said:


Quote:


so long as it makes you feel better. I've no complaints about that.

But that doesn't mean that people choosing not to do those things should boggle your mind; they will not fare any worse, than those who do.


on that, I'd disagree. But we can agree to disagree.

Show me the data. Then we might not even disagree.
Except, of course  
Bill L : 6/20/2018 9:28 am : link
about the anti-Vaxx quackery
RE: RE: And, I am glad that you don not eschew the advise of doctors  
jhibb : 6/20/2018 10:25 am : link
In comment 13994478 SGMen said:
Quote:

Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.



Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?

I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.

So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
RE: RE: Primary vs secondary reasearch  
jhibb : 6/20/2018 10:36 am : link
In comment 13994949 SGMen said:
Quote:

As I noted above as well, there are unfortunately a lot of shall we say "charlatains" out there who claim this magic mushroom will rid you of this;



Wait. I'm sorry, but this basically describes one of the very things in option 2 of your original post.

RE: RE: RE: And, I am glad that you don not eschew the advise of doctors  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 11:37 am : link
In comment 13995085 jhibb said:
Quote:
In comment 13994478 SGMen said:


Quote:



Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.





Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?

I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.

So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
No equivalence intended. If I or anyone in my family were diagnosed with cancer and given a CHEMO protocol I'd suggest they follow it. However, I'd also make sure their spiritual, physical, mental and emotional needs were (hopefully) addressed as well.

The #1 indicator as I understand it with cancers is the DESIRE to WANT TO GET BETTER & LIVE! If someone doesn't have that desire their chances aren't as good.

And yes, there are folks who have had cancer and gone the holistic route and healed. But there are also many that have tried the holistic approach ONLY and died. Chemo is tough on the body and kills more than just cancer.

Simply put, my WHOLE premise in this thread is if you have say cancer (or any disease) consider lifestyle changes as well. For example, both of my parents began experiencing "forgetfullness" at age 79. A review of their bloodwork revealed they both had very low vitamin B levels. That to me meant that diet is the most likely culprit. Adding some complex vitamin B supplementation has them both remembering again at age 80. Just a simple change and an example of trying to find the root cause(s). Most western MD's are not really trained in nutrition. Not their fault it just isn't part of their training.

RE: RE: RE: And, I am glad that you don not eschew the advise of doctors  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 11:40 am : link
In comment 13995085 jhibb said:
Quote:
In comment 13994478 SGMen said:


Quote:



Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.





Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?

I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.

So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
When I went organic; when I went to grass fed meats ONLY; when I removed every toxic thing that can tough my skin, mouth; well, that is when my lab results showed positive changes.

You are what you ABSORB (spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally).

RE: RE: RE: And, I am glad that you don not eschew the advise of doctors  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 11:40 am : link
In comment 13995085 jhibb said:
Quote:
In comment 13994478 SGMen said:


Quote:



Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.





Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?

I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.

So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
When I went organic; when I went to grass fed meats ONLY; when I removed every toxic thing that can tough my skin, mouth; well, that is when my lab results showed positive changes.

You are what you ABSORB (spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally).

I guarantee you that nobody got cured from cancer  
Bill L : 6/20/2018 12:48 pm : link
by only holistic...whatever that is...treatment. Unless they also were touched by God.

And, any doctor, western or not, can diagnose a Vitamin deficiency and rectify it.
RE: I guarantee you that nobody got cured from cancer  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 1:44 pm : link
In comment 13995294 Bill L said:
Quote:
by only holistic...whatever that is...treatment. Unless they also were touched by God.

And, any doctor, western or not, can diagnose a Vitamin deficiency and rectify it.
There are a lot of people who chose NOT to do traditional western medicine protocols and healed.

I picked this one as an example because Dr. Malkus had the strength and vision to share his story and help others.
Holistic Protocol: Healed from tumor - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: And, I am glad that you don not eschew the advise of doctors  
jhibb : 6/20/2018 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13995207 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13995085 jhibb said:


Quote:


In comment 13994478 SGMen said:


Quote:



Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.





Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?

I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.

So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).

When I went organic; when I went to grass fed meats ONLY; when I removed every toxic thing that can tough my skin, mouth; well, that is when my lab results showed positive changes.

You are what you ABSORB (spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally).


How did you get all the pesticides off your organic foods?
You're not one of those people who thinks organic means no pesticides, are you?
RE: RE: I guarantee you that nobody got cured from cancer  
Bill L : 6/20/2018 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13995362 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13995294 Bill L said:


Quote:


by only holistic...whatever that is...treatment. Unless they also were touched by God.

And, any doctor, western or not, can diagnose a Vitamin deficiency and rectify it.

There are a lot of people who chose NOT to do traditional western medicine protocols and healed.

I picked this one as an example because Dr. Malkus had the strength and vision to share his story and help others. Holistic Protocol: Healed from tumor - ( New Window )
Right back at ya
Link - ( New Window )
I hope whoever you guys know  
UConn4523 : 6/20/2018 2:02 pm : link
that have cancer get treatment and recover.

That said i cant take a discussion about not getting vaccines seriously. As for organic foods, the most time that passes the more of a marketing ploy it becomes. Theres almost no added benefit to eating organic foods.

Know the ingredients in your food, thats the best way to control what you are eating. Everything else is on the verge of being bullshit.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And, I am glad that you don not eschew the advise of doctors  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13995363 jhibb said:
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In comment 13995207 SGMen said:


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In comment 13995085 jhibb said:


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In comment 13994478 SGMen said:


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Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.





Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?

I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.

So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).

When I went organic; when I went to grass fed meats ONLY; when I removed every toxic thing that can tough my skin, mouth; well, that is when my lab results showed positive changes.

You are what you ABSORB (spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally).




How did you get all the pesticides off your organic foods?
You're not one of those people who thinks organic means no pesticides, are you?
Organic fruits and vegetables in general will have much lower levels of pesticides and herbicides. Like I said, when I followed a more organic protocol and ate grass fed meats, my labs improved. And I wasn't even 100% strict (or 90% for that matter, just way better...). The nutrient difference isn't as great as you'd hope but there are many reasons for that including over-farming.

Note: European organic tends to be quite clean of herbicides like those made by Monsanto. The glysophate in Roundup herbicide is bad news for the body. My organic acids test showed great improvement from 2017 to 2018. And if China says its organic, I'd be leery. Many of their organic products have been found to have high levels of heavy metals and other chemicals.

My organic farmer did say one thing to me "SG...I can control the ground, the seed, my spray; BUT, I can't control the rain, the wind." We are slowly but surely polluting this planet. Dr. Wendy Myers, like me, had heavy metal, pesticide and herbicide issues and it took her some time to clean it all out. Our bodies are wonderful mechanisms that can heal themselves when we FEED them the proper nutrients.
RE: I hope whoever you guys know  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 2:09 pm : link
In comment 13995376 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
that have cancer get treatment and recover.

That said i cant take a discussion about not getting vaccines seriously. As for organic foods, the most time that passes the more of a marketing ploy it becomes. Theres almost no added benefit to eating organic foods.

Know the ingredients in your food, thats the best way to control what you are eating. Everything else is on the verge of being bullshit.
No one including me has said DO NOT VACCINATE. But I know I have mentioned that many are not pro-vaccine. The Amish, for example, do not vaccinate and their children tend to be healthy and rarely autistic.
RE: I hope whoever you guys know  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 2:16 pm : link
In comment 13995376 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
that have cancer get treatment and recover.

That said i cant take a discussion about not getting vaccines seriously. As for organic foods, the most time that passes the more of a marketing ploy it becomes. Theres almost no added benefit to eating organic foods.

Know the ingredients in your food, thats the best way to control what you are eating. Everything else is on the verge of being bullshit.
For me, being exposed to less and less pesticides and herbicides is KEY.
John Reganold, professor of soil science at Washington State University in Pullman, Wash. - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I hope whoever you guys know  
Bill L : 6/20/2018 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13995385 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13995376 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


that have cancer get treatment and recover.

That said i cant take a discussion about not getting vaccines seriously. As for organic foods, the most time that passes the more of a marketing ploy it becomes. Theres almost no added benefit to eating organic foods.

Know the ingredients in your food, thats the best way to control what you are eating. Everything else is on the verge of being bullshit.

No one including me has said DO NOT VACCINATE. But I know I have mentioned that many are not pro-vaccine. The Amish, for example, do not vaccinate and their children tend to be healthy and rarely autistic.
Until they are not.

There is a group of Jehovah's Witnesses in NY that is suffering from a a measles outbreak. Mumps has run rampant in college campuses over the past several years. We've had a ton of flu fatalities just this year.

No offense, but citing the Amish is for anything health-related is just plain dumb.
And once again  
Bill L : 6/20/2018 2:20 pm : link
there is absolutely no, as in zero, zilch, nada, link between vaccines and autism. To continue using the two words in the same sentence is highly irresponsible.
RE: RE: RE: I guarantee you that nobody got cured from cancer  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 2:22 pm : link
In comment 13995368 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13995362 SGMen said:


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In comment 13995294 Bill L said:


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by only holistic...whatever that is...treatment. Unless they also were touched by God.

And, any doctor, western or not, can diagnose a Vitamin deficiency and rectify it.

There are a lot of people who chose NOT to do traditional western medicine protocols and healed.

I picked this one as an example because Dr. Malkus had the strength and vision to share his story and help others. Holistic Protocol: Healed from tumor - ( New Window )

Right back at ya Link - ( New Window )
There are, unfortunately, people that will abuse the system by lying, cheating, and sharing a false message. I believe in the power of healing prayers, especially in a corporate setting, but if you think I'd believe in some "man or woman" healing me of a serious disease well I'll see you a bridge in brooklyn. LOL.

Dr. Malkus helped a lot of people by helping them change their lifestyles. The fact that he was a man of faith is important. Could God heal you from anything if He chose? Sure...but just asking or praying or going to some charlaitan claiming his holy water will "cure" you isn't a guarantee of anything. Charlatains often take advantage of sick people and take their money. It is a shame that it happens.
kind of my point  
Bill L : 6/20/2018 2:23 pm : link
.
Last tWord on Vaccines  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 2:49 pm : link
If I had a college exam that I had to score a 100 on to get a graduate scholarship, and question was:

"Do vaccines cause autism."

T or F?

I'd answer F, they haven't been proven to cause autism despite the correlation.
My third cousin, Jason, was a "normal" little boy and even began speaking a few words. A short time after his vaccination he not only stopped speaking but wasn't "right" so the parents took him to the pediatrician. Some time later, he was diagnosed with autism and now he is non-verbal and requires a lot of attention. Did the vaccine cause autism or is it just a timeline thing? If you read journal excerpts the bottom line is Dr.'s can't say with 100% assurance what causes autism; and, mainstream scientific research seems to indicate no direct correlation between receiving a vaccine and getting autism.

We may know what causes autism and why autism rates seem to have grown over the last few decades. But there are a lot of smart people working towards figuring it out and hopefully nipping it in the bud. If it is some genetic thing we haven't mapped yet, well, so be it.

That is how I come out on the subject. But I respect the mom's, doctor's, researchers and the like who have kids with autism and are seeking healing. Amen.
There is *no* correlation!!!  
Bill L : 6/20/2018 2:51 pm : link
Jesus.
RE: Last tWord on Vaccines  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 2:52 pm : link
In comment 13995427 SGMen said:
Quote:
If I had a college exam that I had to score a 100 on to get a graduate scholarship, and question was:

"Do vaccines cause autism."

T or F?

I'd answer F, they haven't been proven to cause autism despite the correlation.
My third cousin, Jason, was a "normal" little boy and even began speaking a few words. A short time after his vaccination he not only stopped speaking but wasn't "right" so the parents took him to the pediatrician. Some time later, he was diagnosed with autism and now he is non-verbal and requires a lot of attention. Did the vaccine cause autism or is it just a timeline thing? If you read journal excerpts the bottom line is Dr.'s can't say with 100% assurance what causes autism; and, mainstream scientific research seems to indicate no direct correlation between receiving a vaccine and getting autism.

We may know what causes autism and why autism rates seem to have grown over the last few decades. But there are a lot of smart people working towards figuring it out and hopefully nipping it in the bud. If it is some genetic thing we haven't mapped yet, well, so be it.

That is how I come out on the subject. But I respect the mom's, doctor's, researchers and the like who have kids with autism and are seeking healing. Amen.
Oops, we may NOT know what causes autism and way the rate of children found on the autism spectrum has grown over the last few decades.... My typo, sorry.
There is no "seems to indicate" about anything  
Bill L : 6/20/2018 2:53 pm : link
It simply comes down the a matter of whether or not you believe in science.
Just want to make sure I read this correctly  
Walt in MD : 6/20/2018 3:34 pm : link
You think an almighty being that may or may not exist, has a better chance of healing you than a man or woman with the benefit of years of education and advancements in medical science?
RE: Just want to make sure I read this correctly  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 4:09 pm : link
In comment 13995481 Walt in MD said:
Quote:
You think an almighty being that may or may not exist, has a better chance of healing you than a man or woman with the benefit of years of education and advancements in medical science?
I am a man of faith, yes, but God gives us Dr.'s for a reason!!!😉🙏
RE: There is no  
SGMen : 6/20/2018 4:10 pm : link
In comment 13995434 Bill L said:
Quote:
It simply comes down the a matter of whether or not you believe in science.
sure I believe in science.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And, I am glad that you don not eschew the advise of doctors  
giants#1 : 6/20/2018 4:16 pm : link
In comment 13995381 SGMen said:
Quote:
Organic fruits and vegetables in general will have much lower levels of pesticides and herbicides. Like I said, when I followed a more organic protocol and ate grass fed meats, my labs improved. And I wasn't even 100% strict (or 90% for that matter, just way better...). The nutrient difference isn't as great as you'd hope but there are many reasons for that including over-farming.

Note: European organic tends to be quite clean of herbicides like those made by Monsanto. The glysophate in Roundup herbicide is bad news for the body. My organic acids test showed great improvement from 2017 to 2018. And if China says its organic, I'd be leery. Many of their organic products have been found to have high levels of heavy metals and other chemicals.

My organic farmer did say one thing to me "SG...I can control the ground, the seed, my spray; BUT, I can't control the rain, the wind." We are slowly but surely polluting this planet. Dr. Wendy Myers, like me, had heavy metal, pesticide and herbicide issues and it took her some time to clean it all out. Our bodies are wonderful mechanisms that can heal themselves when we FEED them the proper nutrients.


No they don't. It's marketing BS that makes people think they do. (I'm out of my free articles, but search for the WaPo article titled 'The Truth about organic produce and pesticides'.

That said, grass fed beef may be marginally healthier (see link).
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Last tWord on Vaccines  
jhibb : 6/20/2018 8:32 pm : link
In comment 13995427 SGMen said:
Quote:
If I had a college exam that I had to score a 100 on to get a graduate scholarship, and question was:

"Do vaccines cause autism."

T or F?

I'd answer F, they haven't been proven to cause autism despite the correlation.
My third cousin, Jason, was a "normal" little boy and even began speaking a few words. A short time after his vaccination he not only stopped speaking but wasn't "right" so the parents took him to the pediatrician. Some time later, he was diagnosed with autism and now he is non-verbal and requires a lot of attention. Did the vaccine cause autism or is it just a timeline thing? If you read journal excerpts the bottom line is Dr.'s can't say with 100% assurance what causes autism; and, mainstream scientific research seems to indicate no direct correlation between receiving a vaccine and getting autism.

We may know what causes autism and why autism rates seem to have grown over the last few decades. But there are a lot of smart people working towards figuring it out and hopefully nipping it in the bud. If it is some genetic thing we haven't mapped yet, well, so be it.

That is how I come out on the subject. But I respect the mom's, doctor's, researchers and the like who have kids with autism and are seeking healing. Amen.



If I had a college exam that I had to score a 100 on to get a graduate scholarship, and question was:

"Do organic foods cause autism."

T or F?

I'd answer F, organic foods haven't been proven to cause autism despite the correlation:


(Insert here some anecdote about someone's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate who fed her family nothing but organic food and her child ended up with autism. Obviously meant to obfuscate the matter with a personal emotional story that works against that cold, unfeeling science. Obviously I just answered False because I know that that's what my stupid professor thinks.)


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