what would you do?
1. Just follow the doctor's orders and push through?
2 Follow the doctor's orders for chemotherapy but also I'd take on a holistic lifestyle of just organic vegetables & fruits; organic herbal Chaga & herbal teas; Chaga tincture; Ceylon cinnamon, clean purified water, sunlight, etc.
I'd do #2 of course so it boggles my mind that a friend isn't considering the herbal path. She has the desire to live, for sure.
Thoughts? Experiences??
Isn't option #2 more of a preventative stance? Meaning eat that way always and your chances of cancer are lessened.
Once the cancer is there, I'm not so sure it makes a difference.
Obviously speaking with zero experience
Hard choice. I'd have to think about it.
Isn't option #2 more of a preventative stance? Meaning eat that way always and your chances of cancer are lessened.
Once the cancer is there, I'm not so sure it makes a difference.
Obviously speaking with zero experience
I guess what I'm asking is whether people are "scared" to do things outside of the "generally accepted western medicine" approaches which we KNOW can hurt as much as they help you. I know many folks who were stage 0 to even 4 who healed with a holistic approach. I'd never tell someone not to do chemotherapy as I am not an MD; however, I would really strongly suggest a "WHOLE PERSON" healing approach if I or someone I love were diagnosed with CANCER.
Prayers are always appreciated!
Hard choice. I'd have to think about it.
Interested in knowing why you think it is "bullshit"? Not looking for arguments just thoughts, experiences, etc.
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is cutting out the other crap they may be putting in their body
yes, with choice #2 you are removing all non-organic stuff with organic, clean foods, water. Sugar is #1 on the remove list.
I wouldn't get too hung up on the "organic" tag.
Eating a simply prepared non organic chicken breast is still way better than eating overly processed food.
And even if Chaga does potentially have some healing properties, you face the same problem with any kind of supplement or herbal remedy, you have no idea if what you're buying is real or of good quality. You're buying an expensive product from unregulated vendors and then putting it in your body.
Link - ( New Window )
Hard choice. I'd have to think about it.
SGMen... This is the answer to your question. A lot of people think like Gary do. I happen to not, since my sister did exactly as you mentioned and has been cancer free for 10 years. To each their own, I guess.
I appreciated people cared about me enough to do the research, as i believe your friend appreciates you, but stop trying to push this holistic lifestyle on her.Let the doctors do what they know and follow their orders
Every cell needs sugar (in some form) to grow.
And highly alkaline water. Nothing but 8.0 PH and up.
To answer the Op.
I'm very sorry about your friend, I count blessings everyday and thankful for health, and it's hard to tell you what I would do if it was me as I try not to think to much into detail about that kind of stuff (anxious brain here) but to answer your question, gun to my head yes I would try the Holistic approach on top of the Doctors orders. However I would still eat whatever i wanted as I'm sure It's very tough to eat. I would just try "paw paw" some other natural stuff, maybe some super foods and definitely all highly alkaline water 24/7 would be one thing I would think todo but again, my attitude could change a ton in that situation so I really can't say for certain
I really just came by to offer my best regards
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also cut sugar completely as cancer cells require sugar to grow.
Every cell needs sugar (in some form) to grow.
Beyond that, I'll just leave this here: Tim Minchin - Storm - ( New Window )
This is the correct answer IMO. Chemo plus whatever makes her comfortable and happy. Including where she receives he treatments. Pretty much all chemo meds are FDA approved so they can be administered just about anywhere.
I know when my daughter was going through her battle the Dr said how she takes the 1st rd of treatments will pretty much be how her body handles the rest of treatments. They kept her in patient for the 1st rd to be sure there weren't any major complications and then she received the rest as an outpatient. Which was perfect because she got to go home, put her feet in the ocean, play with the dog, sleep in her own bed, and do whatever else made her happy and comfortable.
A positive frame of mind is super important when battling this fucking disease.
If they ask for your suggestions and advice, then go ahead and give it to them. If they don't, keep your mouth shut and support them in the way they ask you to.
Sorry to hear about your friend's troubles. Be as supportive as you can but be aware that chemo and radiation beat the hell out of the body. So if you visit and are suddenly asked to leave take no offense but visit when you can. The afflicted need all the moral support they can get.
While I very much trust doctors and would follow their advice, the truth is that most doctors receive almost no training in nutrition.
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No clinical trials have been conducted to assess chagas safety and efficacy for disease prevention or for the treatment of cancer, cardiovascular disease, or diabetes.
And even if Chaga does potentially have some healing properties, you face the same problem with any kind of supplement or herbal remedy, you have no idea if what you're buying is real or of good quality. You're buying an expensive product from unregulated vendors and then putting it in your body. Link - ( New Window )
I personally don't handle cancer patients myself. Also, I do question some studies (or lack thereof) since they are funded by groups that would not benefit from holistic healing protocols. All I am saying, things are not as "black & white" as some would like.
The chaga I use is the actually chaga right off the tree and brewed on very very low heat overnight. I also make tinctures of the chaga to get all the benefits.
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the chemotherapy regimen and everything else should be whatever keeps her as comfortable and happy as possible. Chemo is tough on people and many just want to give up at some point. If adopting a holistic lifestyle makes someone feel better than go for it. If it feels like an additional burden, there's no reason to add that to an already difficult time IMO.
This is the correct answer IMO. Chemo plus whatever makes her comfortable and happy. Including where she receives he treatments. Pretty much all chemo meds are FDA approved so they can be administered just about anywhere.
I know when my daughter was going through her battle the Dr said how she takes the 1st rd of treatments will pretty much be how her body handles the rest of treatments. They kept her in patient for the 1st rd to be sure there weren't any major complications and then she received the rest as an outpatient. Which was perfect because she got to go home, put her feet in the ocean, play with the dog, sleep in her own bed, and do whatever else made her happy and comfortable.
A positive frame of mind is super important when battling this fucking disease.
I posted this question on this forum as opposed to social media because my friends,followers (who include members of this site as I've been her for 20+ years - LOL) would skew the results as they know what I believe based on my experiences, studies, doctor consults galore.
I believe in whole person healing approaches which consider the Spiritual (are you in right relationship with yourself, God and the world around you?); Physical (food, drink, sleep, meditation, exercise, sunlight, etc.); Mental (are your thoughts rational?); and, emotions (do you understand your feelings and own them or do they own you?).
My personal experience is that western medicines tend to focus on the SYMPTOM rather than the WHOLE and therefore ROOT CAUSES are often missed.
While I very much trust doctors and would follow their advice, the truth is that most doctors receive almost no training in nutrition.
I appreciated people cared about me enough to do the research, as i believe your friend appreciates you, but stop trying to push this holistic lifestyle on her.Let the doctors do what they know and follow their orders
First, sorry to hear about your MS. I have two friends who had MS and were wheelchair bound but through lifestyle changes they are now healthy, active and enjoying life. Definitely check out the Wahl's protocol. She is truly brilliant and I've listened to her speak at medical conferences. Brilliant.
Note: I have two folks at my church that have MS. One is a combat veteran like myself and he can barely get around. The other is the wife of one of our elders. Neither of them would try the baby steps I offered AFTER they came to me for help. You have to WANT something and there are no guarantees in life with anything.
I wish you the best.
For example, we now know for sure that our gut microbiome (bacteria's) "speak" to our brain and our brain speaks to our gut. If our gut is messed up due to a diet filled with non-nourishing, non-nutritious foods and GMO's, we begin to lose the ability to absorb nutrients.
Just a theory, but I wouldn't doubt that the recent rise in depression has a bit to do with lifestyle changes that negatively impact us (ex. less sleep, poor diet, less if any exercise, little time in sunlight, too much caffeine, too many chemicals, pesticides and herbicides messing up our methylation systems. Etc.
And, if I was at all concerned that the chemo wouldn't work, then I'm going the opposite route and cramming all of the deep fried food, steak and wings, beer, sex, and gambling that I can fit into my waking life.
its a horrible disease.
FUCK YOU CANCER!
its a horrible disease.
FUCK YOU CANCER!
I wouldn't ever want to deal with months of radiation and chemo. I've seen people go through it close up and it looks absolutely horrible. I know it sounds fucking dark, but I'd rather just try every alternative and if nothing helped - well, I guess my time is up.
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maybe we should forgo vaccination as well and we will get better.
Genetically Modified Organisms are NOT good for you. Period.
He wrote "Period", guys. Sorry. It's over.
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maybe we should forgo vaccination as well and we will get better.
Genetically Modified Organisms are NOT good for you. Period.
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In comment 13993486 Bill L said:
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maybe we should forgo vaccination as well and we will get better.
Genetically Modified Organisms are NOT good for you. Period.
Neither are vaccines.
One thing I do know is that there aren't many (or really any of merit) studies on the SYNERGISTIC effects of vaccines. And some of the ingredients in vaccines are simply BAD for the HUMAN BODY (ex. mercury).
There are huge groups of women who will tell you my "child was normal, even said words" and after being vaccinated he changed...and now is considered autistic. I don't really have an answer for this one.
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In comment 13993486 Bill L said:
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maybe we should forgo vaccination as well and we will get better.
Genetically Modified Organisms are NOT good for you. Period.
He wrote "Period", guys. Sorry. It's over.
I'm guessing that in as little as 5 years, the United States will finally smarten up and follow our European counterparts who don't care for GMO's. It is just not part of the "natural order of things". IMHO.
Hold on to that day job as long as you can
I wouldn't ever want to deal with months of radiation and chemo. I've seen people go through it close up and it looks absolutely horrible. I know it sounds fucking dark, but I'd rather just try every alternative and if nothing helped - well, I guess my time is up.
I'm guessing that in as little as 5 years, the United States will finally smarten up and follow our European counterparts who don't care for GMO's. It is just not part of the "natural order of things". IMHO.
This just gets better and better. Who was at this "medical conference"? Doctor Howard, Doctor Fine and Doctor Howard?
I have many negative diagnoses from the Veteran's Administration after a 20 year career. Some physical injuries, some illness, some exposures which caused illness, etc.
ONLY a holistic approach helped. My labs in 2017 were so bad that one Dr. remarked "I am surprised you can walk...." but I took their suggestions and learned more and more about holistic approaches and employed the ones that I determined were best.
My 2018 labs, while not yet perfect of course, are a heck of a lot better than my 2017 lab results. We don't have to suffer. Simple lifestyle changes, even just one, can help one so much that when they feel it and see it working, they just want MORE positive in their life.
That is my basic story. Amen.
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At a medical conference in NYC this February, we discussed how the human body sees GMO's: simply put, they aren't food and the body attacks the invader at times. I mean, think about it, a bug crawls up a piece of corn, bites it, and its stomach explodes because the corn contains something (genetically modified) that does this (a protein or something). How can this be good for the human body?
I'm guessing that in as little as 5 years, the United States will finally smarten up and follow our European counterparts who don't care for GMO's. It is just not part of the "natural order of things". IMHO.
This just gets better and better. Who was at this "medical conference"? Doctor Howard, Doctor Fine and Doctor Howard?
I am a big believer in "baby steps" when making lifestyle changes. When I go to the gym, for example, I notice every January quite a few overweight folks coming in. I truly admire this group but many quit before the miracle happens. If the mentality is realistic, there is less stress and more change for the better. Nice and easy. :)
Integrative Health Symposium - ( New Window )
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that's for sure.
It is often said that "Stress is the #1 killer" - I still believe that.
I am a big believer in "baby steps" when making lifestyle changes. When I go to the gym, for example, I notice every January quite a few overweight folks coming in. I truly admire this group but many quit before the miracle happens. If the mentality is realistic, there is less stress and more change for the better. Nice and easy. :)
Here's what Quackwatch has to say about him
In 1995, the FTC charged Bland and his companies with violating the consent order by making unsubstantiated weight-loss claims for several products. In addition, their UltraClear dietary program had been falsely claimed to reduce the incidence and severity of symptoms associated with gastrointestinal problems, inflammatory or immunologic problems, fatigue, food allergies, mercury exposure, kidney disorders, and rheumatoid arthritis. The settlement agreement included a $45,000 civil penalty [3].
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 13993581 Bill L said:
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that's for sure.
It is often said that "Stress is the #1 killer" - I still believe that.
I am a big believer in "baby steps" when making lifestyle changes. When I go to the gym, for example, I notice every January quite a few overweight folks coming in. I truly admire this group but many quit before the miracle happens. If the mentality is realistic, there is less stress and more change for the better. Nice and easy. :)
I was talking more about your placebo effect, but certainly stress has a large impact on health and multiple physiologic processes.
I am not a fan of taking 30 supplements because each one does something "good" for you and such. I don't have an issue with taking a quality multi-vitamin from time to time, but only take supplementation for things you know you NEED.
For example, I have two bad gene SNP's for Vitamin D so I tend to have low levels during the colder months of October through April. I supplement and take vitamin K with it from time to time to get maximum benefit. My levels are fine but you have to be careful with vitamin D as it is fat soluble. Too much is no good.
Here's what Quackwatch has to say about him
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In 1991, the FTC charged that Bland and two of his corporations (HealthComm and Nu-Day Enterprises) had falsely claimed that their diet program could cause weight loss by changing consumers' metabolism and cause them to lose weight without exercising so that fat is lost as body heat instead of being stored. The Nu-Day Diet Program, which cost about $30 per week, included instructional materials, a meal-replacement formula, and a fiber-containing formula said to be a "natural appetite suppressant." The Nu-Day program was promoted with a 30-minute television program entitled "The Perfect Diet," which offered "amazing true stories of people like yourself losing 20, 30, 50 pounds or more, safely, quickly and naturally." Although the television program appeared to be an independent consumer news show that used interviews to report on its discovery of the Nu-Day Diet, it was actually a paid ad. The program identified Bland as "one of the nation's leading nutritional biochemists." The case was settled with a consent agreement in which Bland agreed to pay $30,000 for redress and to refrain from making the claims that had been challenged. The consent order also requires future programs of 15 minutes or longer to display messages identifying them as paid ads for the products offered [2].
In 1995, the FTC charged Bland and his companies with violating the consent order by making unsubstantiated weight-loss claims for several products. In addition, their UltraClear dietary program had been falsely claimed to reduce the incidence and severity of symptoms associated with gastrointestinal problems, inflammatory or immunologic problems, fatigue, food allergies, mercury exposure, kidney disorders, and rheumatoid arthritis. The settlement agreement included a $45,000 civil penalty [3].
Link - ( New Window )
Seems like a pretty legit guy to me!
This constant over-analysis on every single little thing you eat or take or do probably becomes counterproductive at some point.
I do believe stress is awful for the human body, and I'd imagine that some of this stuff only indirectly creates more of it after a while.
I think holistic/natural remedies are wonderful - but people just go in so far and overcomplicate everything trying to perfect every single organ in their body and sometimes they forget to actually just let go and enjoy life for a while.
Believe it or not, balanced nutrition, exercise and basic healthy living is all most people need. The amount of pseudo-science and bullshit publications on the internet now is staggering and you can get so far down that rabbit hole that before you know it, you're taking 50 different supplements every day trying to "perfect" your own health and forget to just live.
Life is really short, and we're all going to die one way or another. Dedicating so much of your time to prolonging your life just seems counterintuitive sometimes.
I'm not saying to ignore your own health or not take care of yourself. Absolutely not. I just think people get so, so wrapped up in this shit sometimes thinking they can prevent everything and it's just not reality.
This constant over-analysis on every single little thing you eat or take or do probably becomes counterproductive at some point.
I do believe stress is awful for the human body, and I'd imagine that some of this stuff only indirectly creates more of it after a while.
I think holistic/natural remedies are wonderful - but people just go in so far and overcomplicate everything trying to perfect every single organ in their body and sometimes they forget to actually just let go and enjoy life for a while.
Believe it or not, balanced nutrition, exercise and basic healthy living is all most people need. The amount of pseudo-science and bullshit publications on the internet now is staggering and you can get so far down that rabbit hole that before you know it, you're taking 50 different supplements every day trying to "perfect" your own health and forget to just live.
Life is really short, and we're all going to die one way or another. Dedicating so much of your time to prolonging your life just seems counterintuitive sometimes.
I'm not saying to ignore your own health or not take care of yourself. Absolutely not. I just think people get so, so wrapped up in this shit sometimes thinking they can prevent everything and it's just not reality.
I once heard David Wolfe, a noted naturalist, reply to a question "David, how do you remember all this stuff!!!" and he replied "cause I LIVE it" - but the conversation ended with his saying just take away a few of his recommendations and see how you feel?
You can overthink things. I do "high performance" training with Brendon Burchard. I found it to be quite useful; however, you can't be dogmatic about it and expect success. There are good habits and there are bad habits. Finding what works best for you is ultimately the goal. So we agree. :)
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In comment 13993506 SGMen said:
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In comment 13993486 Bill L said:
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maybe we should forgo vaccination as well and we will get better.
Genetically Modified Organisms are NOT good for you. Period.
Neither are vaccines.
I do believe kids get way too many vaccinations but again, this isn't my area.
One thing I do know is that there aren't many (or really any of merit) studies on the SYNERGISTIC effects of vaccines. And some of the ingredients in vaccines are simply BAD for the HUMAN BODY (ex. mercury).
There are huge groups of women who will tell you my "child was normal, even said words" and after being vaccinated he changed...and now is considered autistic. I don't really have an answer for this one.
The answer is that those women are morons. Millions have been wasted studying the link between vaccines and autism and proven that their is NO link. Anyone that tells you otherwise is an idiot.
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Picked the first name on the list, Jeffrey S. Bland, PhD, CNS, FACN, FACB.
Here's what Quackwatch has to say about him
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In 1991, the FTC charged that Bland and two of his corporations (HealthComm and Nu-Day Enterprises) had falsely claimed that their diet program could cause weight loss by changing consumers' metabolism and cause them to lose weight without exercising so that fat is lost as body heat instead of being stored. The Nu-Day Diet Program, which cost about $30 per week, included instructional materials, a meal-replacement formula, and a fiber-containing formula said to be a "natural appetite suppressant." The Nu-Day program was promoted with a 30-minute television program entitled "The Perfect Diet," which offered "amazing true stories of people like yourself losing 20, 30, 50 pounds or more, safely, quickly and naturally." Although the television program appeared to be an independent consumer news show that used interviews to report on its discovery of the Nu-Day Diet, it was actually a paid ad. The program identified Bland as "one of the nation's leading nutritional biochemists." The case was settled with a consent agreement in which Bland agreed to pay $30,000 for redress and to refrain from making the claims that had been challenged. The consent order also requires future programs of 15 minutes or longer to display messages identifying them as paid ads for the products offered [2].
In 1995, the FTC charged Bland and his companies with violating the consent order by making unsubstantiated weight-loss claims for several products. In addition, their UltraClear dietary program had been falsely claimed to reduce the incidence and severity of symptoms associated with gastrointestinal problems, inflammatory or immunologic problems, fatigue, food allergies, mercury exposure, kidney disorders, and rheumatoid arthritis. The settlement agreement included a $45,000 civil penalty [3].
Link - ( New Window )
Seems like a pretty legit guy to me!
He's a well respected, well published Dr. That much I know. But remember, many of these doctors don't look to a quick fix Rx for things so Big Pharma doesn't benefit. Just keep that in mind.
Many top labs and suppliers come to the event because the thinking is cutting edge and works. The goal is healthier people not addicted people.
Arc...The treatment wasn't fun but it is better then the alternative.....
Arc...The treatment wasn't fun but it is better then the alternative.....
Arc...The treatment wasn't fun but it is better then the alternative.....
Awesome to hear that you're cancer free!
I think if I was truly faced with having to make those decisions, my mindset could easily change - it's easy for me to say what I said before without actually having cancer. I think I've just seen how rough some treatment can be and how poor the quality of life became for those people in the interim, but I suppose if the odds of a better long-term prognosis were good enough, I'd consider it.
It obviously also depends on the type of cancer, where it is, how aggressively it's spreading, etc. Obviously that all plays a large factor.
In any event, I'm really glad to hear you've won your battle. I'd imagine one has to be extremely strong to make it through that and be victorious, so I have a tremendous amount of respect for that.
All the best.
There is a whole lot of stupid in this thread.
its a horrible disease.
FUCK YOU CANCER!
I'm not usually a cynical person but I honestly feel a big reason why is because there's WAY more money in treating it than curing it or finding a way to prevent it with a vaccine or similar.
I know the numbers for my daughter's battle were astronomical when all when said and done. Thankfully she was covered and we only had the deductibles to pay but even so, the total number was hard to believe. Times that by the millions nationwide being treated and there you go.
Sorry Gary but the Earth is flat as a pancake and satan escapes through the flashing lights at rock concerts.
Sorry to bust your bubble of life
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cancer isnt the number one priority right now on everyones table. Fucking hell. its killing people day by day. Innocent people with no history and just"bad luck"
its a horrible disease.
FUCK YOU CANCER!
I'm not usually a cynical person but I honestly feel a big reason why is because there's WAY more money in treating it than curing it or finding a way to prevent it with a vaccine or similar.
I know the numbers for my daughter's battle were astronomical when all when said and done. Thankfully she was covered and we only had the deductibles to pay but even so, the total number was hard to believe. Times that by the millions nationwide being treated and there you go.
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cancer isnt the number one priority right now on everyones table. Fucking hell. its killing people day by day. Innocent people with no history and just"bad luck"
its a horrible disease.
FUCK YOU CANCER!
I'm not usually a cynical person but I honestly feel a big reason why is because there's WAY more money in treating it than curing it or finding a way to prevent it with a vaccine or similar.
.
Or maybe, just maybe, cancer is a really tough disease to cure. One basic reason is because it isn't even one disease, but a whole category of different diseases. In addition, some of these are essentially "curable" right now, while there are continuously advances being made with others. In my opinion, you have to go to some crazy conspiracy place to imagine some evil empire keeping every scientist out there in line, maybe letting some advances out just to stay hidden.
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In comment 13993494 GMAN4LIFE said:
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cancer isnt the number one priority right now on everyones table. Fucking hell. its killing people day by day. Innocent people with no history and just"bad luck"
its a horrible disease.
FUCK YOU CANCER!
I'm not usually a cynical person but I honestly feel a big reason why is because there's WAY more money in treating it than curing it or finding a way to prevent it with a vaccine or similar.
.
Or maybe, just maybe, cancer is a really tough disease to cure. One basic reason is because it isn't even one disease, but a whole category of different diseases. In addition, some of these are essentially "curable" right now, while there are continuously advances being made with others. In my opinion, you have to go to some crazy conspiracy place to imagine some evil empire keeping every scientist out there in line, maybe letting some advances out just to stay hidden.
+6.02e23
Theres no conspiracy there. And, people really are crazy.
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cancer isnt the number one priority right now on everyones table. Fucking hell. its killing people day by day. Innocent people with no history and just"bad luck"
its a horrible disease.
FUCK YOU CANCER!
I'm not usually a cynical person but I honestly feel a big reason why is because there's WAY more money in treating it than curing it or finding a way to prevent it with a vaccine or similar.
I know the numbers for my daughter's battle were astronomical when all when said and done. Thankfully she was covered and we only had the deductibles to pay but even so, the total number was hard to believe. Times that by the millions nationwide being treated and there you go.
Except the company that cured (all) cancer would instantly be worth trillions.
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In comment 13993494 GMAN4LIFE said:
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cancer isnt the number one priority right now on everyones table. Fucking hell. its killing people day by day. Innocent people with no history and just"bad luck"
its a horrible disease.
FUCK YOU CANCER!
I'm not usually a cynical person but I honestly feel a big reason why is because there's WAY more money in treating it than curing it or finding a way to prevent it with a vaccine or similar.
.
Or maybe, just maybe, cancer is a really tough disease to cure. One basic reason is because it isn't even one disease, but a whole category of different diseases. In addition, some of these are essentially "curable" right now, while there are continuously advances being made with others. In my opinion, you have to go to some crazy conspiracy place to imagine some evil empire keeping every scientist out there in line, maybe letting some advances out just to stay hidden.
We are talking basic, common sense things here:
-proper nutrition
-good, clean water
-exercise
-sleep 8 or more hours
-meditate
-pray
-breathe
-learn some basic bio-hacking to maximize your potential (ADVANCED - see the work Anthony Metivier, Dave Asprey, Jim Kwik, Brendon Burchard, Tony Robbins, etc.)
The human body, once it has cancer, is at a disadvantage because its now sick and needs help to heal. As I noted from the very start, I would NEVER not follow a doctor's protocol (by and large anyway) but if I had cancer I know for sure I'd want to give my body the BEST opportunity to help it heal itself by feeding it the right things: a connected spiritual life; the desire to live; support; proper foods, proper water (we are dehydrated beyond measure); supplements were needed, etc.
How this thread spread to name calling and people just googling and posting links without ever having worked on the field; without ever researching; without ever speaking to people who have overcome; etc., speaks to our current culture of divisiveness. All too often, we have pre-conceived notions about things and choose to attack a person rather than having an open mind, asking questions, learning and understanding how things work. I am but a neophytie when it comes to understanding "whole person healing" but this neophyte has grown through the mentorship of many wonderful doctors, wonderful edicuational programs, and the love & support of fellow veterans and health seekers.
I know I am working hard with the Veteran's Affairs Hospital to build holistic protocols for combat veterans who suffer from exposures; from PTSD; from illness & injuries associated with serving our country. It was holistic protocols which helped me and so many others because there is no (for example) western medicine that works for Gulf War Illness.
Finally, the journey isn't a quick fix pill or Rx here. It is a lifetime journey that once you begin you can't help but see the positive results; want more results; and, in turn share them. Eastern philosophies and medicine still play better with women, I'll admit that as do my colleagues, but that will change slowly and with time. In the meantime, there are also a lot of "salespeople" out there selling this magic detox; this magic potion; this magic pill; this magic program; etc. They give honest practitioners & seekers a bad name because there rarely is any magic to these things.
Most MLM's (multi level marketing) companies that sell there holistic, herbal and detox products are expensive and selling the GROUP energy as much as anything. Don't drink their cool-aid....though not every MLM is bad either so just be careful.
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In comment 13993987 Eman11 said:
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In comment 13993494 GMAN4LIFE said:
Quote:
cancer isnt the number one priority right now on everyones table. Fucking hell. its killing people day by day. Innocent people with no history and just"bad luck"
its a horrible disease.
FUCK YOU CANCER!
I'm not usually a cynical person but I honestly feel a big reason why is because there's WAY more money in treating it than curing it or finding a way to prevent it with a vaccine or similar.
.
Or maybe, just maybe, cancer is a really tough disease to cure. One basic reason is because it isn't even one disease, but a whole category of different diseases. In addition, some of these are essentially "curable" right now, while there are continuously advances being made with others. In my opinion, you have to go to some crazy conspiracy place to imagine some evil empire keeping every scientist out there in line, maybe letting some advances out just to stay hidden.
Cancer is tough to cure, no doubt about it. Cancer also comes in many forms which makes it even harder to nail down and cure. I don't see there being a conspiracy to find a cure but I do believe holistic protocols are minimized because there is no or very little money in it. When God put us together he did a great job, better than we ever could. If we give our bodies the right "inputs" we will get better "outputs".
We are talking basic, common sense things here:
-proper nutrition
-good, clean water
-exercise
-sleep 8 or more hours
-meditate
-pray
-breathe
-learn some basic bio-hacking to maximize your potential (ADVANCED - see the work Anthony Metivier, Dave Asprey, Jim Kwik, Brendon Burchard, Tony Robbins, etc.)
The human body, once it has cancer, is at a disadvantage because its now sick and needs help to heal. As I noted from the very start, I would NEVER not follow a doctor's protocol (by and large anyway) but if I had cancer I know for sure I'd want to give my body the BEST opportunity to help it heal itself by feeding it the right things: a connected spiritual life; the desire to live; support; proper foods, proper water (we are dehydrated beyond measure); supplements were needed, etc.
How this thread spread to name calling and people just googling and posting links without ever having worked on the field; without ever researching; without ever speaking to people who have overcome; etc., speaks to our current culture of divisiveness. All too often, we have pre-conceived notions about things and choose to attack a person rather than having an open mind, asking questions, learning and understanding how things work. I am but a neophytie when it comes to understanding "whole person healing" but this neophyte has grown through the mentorship of many wonderful doctors, wonderful edicuational programs, and the love & support of fellow veterans and health seekers.
I know I am working hard with the Veteran's Affairs Hospital to build holistic protocols for combat veterans who suffer from exposures; from PTSD; from illness & injuries associated with serving our country. It was holistic protocols which helped me and so many others because there is no (for example) western medicine that works for Gulf War Illness.
Finally, the journey isn't a quick fix pill or Rx here. It is a lifetime journey that once you begin you can't help but see the positive results; want more results; and, in turn share them. Eastern philosophies and medicine still play better with women, I'll admit that as do my colleagues, but that will change slowly and with time. In the meantime, there are also a lot of "salespeople" out there selling this magic detox; this magic potion; this magic pill; this magic program; etc. They give honest practitioners & seekers a bad name because there rarely is any magic to these things.
Most MLM's (multi level marketing) companies that sell there holistic, herbal and detox products are expensive and selling the GROUP energy as much as anything. Don't drink their cool-aid....though not every MLM is bad either so just be careful.
You just jealous you lack the common sense to breathe.
He flat out said that vaccines cause autism which has been definitively shown to be a fake statement.
In comment 13994256 Bill L said:
Quote:
Lost me when he made his subtle anti-vaxxer quack comment
Subtle?
He flat out said that vaccines cause autism which has been definitively shown to be a fake statement.
Quote:
Lost me when he made his subtle anti-vaxxer quack comment
Subtle?
He flat out said that vaccines cause autism which has been definitively shown to be a fake statement.
I also know of quite a few women, mothers who work so hard, who attribute their child's autism to vaccination.
The points above simply speak to what I have learned; however, I've never studied vaccines nor have I ever had to make a choice to vaccinate or not and that makes me unqualified to speak to the issue with any authority.
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In comment 13994100 jhibb said:
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In comment 13993987 Eman11 said:
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In comment 13993494 GMAN4LIFE said:
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cancer isnt the number one priority right now on everyones table. Fucking hell. its killing people day by day. Innocent people with no history and just"bad luck"
its a horrible disease.
FUCK YOU CANCER!
I'm not usually a cynical person but I honestly feel a big reason why is because there's WAY more money in treating it than curing it or finding a way to prevent it with a vaccine or similar.
.
Or maybe, just maybe, cancer is a really tough disease to cure. One basic reason is because it isn't even one disease, but a whole category of different diseases. In addition, some of these are essentially "curable" right now, while there are continuously advances being made with others. In my opinion, you have to go to some crazy conspiracy place to imagine some evil empire keeping every scientist out there in line, maybe letting some advances out just to stay hidden.
Cancer is tough to cure, no doubt about it. Cancer also comes in many forms which makes it even harder to nail down and cure. I don't see there being a conspiracy to find a cure but I do believe holistic protocols are minimized because there is no or very little money in it. When God put us together he did a great job, better than we ever could. If we give our bodies the right "inputs" we will get better "outputs".
We are talking basic, common sense things here:
-proper nutrition
-good, clean water
-exercise
-sleep 8 or more hours
-meditate
-pray
-breathe
-learn some basic bio-hacking to maximize your potential (ADVANCED - see the work Anthony Metivier, Dave Asprey, Jim Kwik, Brendon Burchard, Tony Robbins, etc.)
The human body, once it has cancer, is at a disadvantage because its now sick and needs help to heal. As I noted from the very start, I would NEVER not follow a doctor's protocol (by and large anyway) but if I had cancer I know for sure I'd want to give my body the BEST opportunity to help it heal itself by feeding it the right things: a connected spiritual life; the desire to live; support; proper foods, proper water (we are dehydrated beyond measure); supplements were needed, etc.
How this thread spread to name calling and people just googling and posting links without ever having worked on the field; without ever researching; without ever speaking to people who have overcome; etc., speaks to our current culture of divisiveness. All too often, we have pre-conceived notions about things and choose to attack a person rather than having an open mind, asking questions, learning and understanding how things work. I am but a neophytie when it comes to understanding "whole person healing" but this neophyte has grown through the mentorship of many wonderful doctors, wonderful edicuational programs, and the love & support of fellow veterans and health seekers.
I know I am working hard with the Veteran's Affairs Hospital to build holistic protocols for combat veterans who suffer from exposures; from PTSD; from illness & injuries associated with serving our country. It was holistic protocols which helped me and so many others because there is no (for example) western medicine that works for Gulf War Illness.
Finally, the journey isn't a quick fix pill or Rx here. It is a lifetime journey that once you begin you can't help but see the positive results; want more results; and, in turn share them. Eastern philosophies and medicine still play better with women, I'll admit that as do my colleagues, but that will change slowly and with time. In the meantime, there are also a lot of "salespeople" out there selling this magic detox; this magic potion; this magic pill; this magic program; etc. They give honest practitioners & seekers a bad name because there rarely is any magic to these things.
Most MLM's (multi level marketing) companies that sell there holistic, herbal and detox products are expensive and selling the GROUP energy as much as anything. Don't drink their cool-aid....though not every MLM is bad either so just be careful.
No lie...virtually *none* of the stuff you listed cures cancer.
And trust me, as a combat veteran diagnosed with Gulf War Illness, I know that holistic treatments are the ONLY thing that truly works.
My pursuits are to help people heal. A whole person approach is going to bring about much better results than simply treating a symptom. For folks that disagree, that is fine.
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In comment 13994191 Ned In Atlanta said:
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Lost me when he made his subtle anti-vaxxer quack comment
Subtle?
He flat out said that vaccines cause autism which has been definitively shown to be a fake statement.
Please do not mis-quote me. Vaccines are not my area of expertise. I do believe the lack of synergistic studies and some of the ingredients found make vaccines questionable.
I also know of quite a few women, mothers who work so hard, who attribute their child's autism to vaccination.
The points above simply speak to what I have learned; however, I've never studied vaccines nor have I ever had to make a choice to vaccinate or not and that makes me unqualified to speak to the issue with any authority.
"Working hard" doesn't mean the women are intelligent or competently able to diagnose the cause of their child's autism.
However, the Drs and researchers that spent years searching for a link between autism and vaccines are quite qualified and can (and do) say with certainty that there is no link.
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In comment 13994256 Bill L said:
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In comment 13994191 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
Lost me when he made his subtle anti-vaxxer quack comment
Subtle?
He flat out said that vaccines cause autism which has been definitively shown to be a fake statement.
Please do not mis-quote me. Vaccines are not my area of expertise. I do believe the lack of synergistic studies and some of the ingredients found make vaccines questionable.
I also know of quite a few women, mothers who work so hard, who attribute their child's autism to vaccination.
The points above simply speak to what I have learned; however, I've never studied vaccines nor have I ever had to make a choice to vaccinate or not and that makes me unqualified to speak to the issue with any authority.
"Working hard" doesn't mean the women are intelligent or competently able to diagnose the cause of their child's autism.
However, the Drs and researchers that spent years searching for a link between autism and vaccines are quite qualified and can (and do) say with certainty that there is no link.
Are they correct when they post their own research or correlations? I can't answer that as I am but an observer who has an open mind; is willing to listen & learn; and, to admit his limitations - I am simply not qualified to speak to the issue with any authority.
The fact that AUTISM rates have been rising is an issue, for sure. Do we know exactly why? I honestly don't know.
Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.
My whole point here in posting is to get a feel for how people (and men in general, as I'd bet the majority of folks on BBI are men) look at holistic protocols. If I had posted in one of my social media forums, the results would be skewed toward women and people that are in the holistic healing world.
In SUMMARY, nothing posted above has surprised me in any way or hurt me. I've listened to arguments both "Pro and Con" on many health issues. But one thing I can tell you: Integrative Medicine is getting praise from combat veterans and veterans in general, folks like me, because the approaches are often just common sense in a world that no longer lives to shall we say "God's design for us" - give yourself a chance. One small change, like drinking clean, purified water for a change, can bring about massive healing to someone who hasn't been hydrated properly for likely a LONG time.
And no one here has offended me in the least. Nada.
I do not believe this claim, that folks with Stage 4 cancers "healed by completely revamping their lifestyle". I do not believe it at all.
-SGMen
-SGMen
Also, if you read my post, my entire premise is to give one the BEST chance for healing and that always involves a WHOLE PERSON approach. Nowhere have I said not to follow your doctor's protocols but rather to consider making lifestyle changes that will give you and your body the best chance to heal.
The human body has an amazing ability to heal itself but it must be properly nourished: spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally. A few simple changes can completely enable the body to build its defenses and heal.
One area that I am very much interested in learning is the brain to gut microbiome connection. We currently understand less than 3% of iit all, and that is a guess/estimate I took away from a conference I attended.
One study showed alcoholics in remission ALL had less than optimal gut microbiome! That means their gut is likely not as able to produce serotonin and communicate with the brain at an optimal level.
Finally, I find it fascinating that women will be open to "Whole person" healing whereas men tend to push away. Now, as women are wired differently than men, I get it. Women are also primary care-takers of children even in dual parent homes so their interests in helping their sick or struggling child often leads them to consider any and all options.
I do believe in as little as five years we will begin to see a more "organic" approach to farming here in the United States. The obesity rates in the United States are frankly, quite freightening. We simply do not get the hydration, nutrition, sleep, rest, etc., that we naturally need to be at our best (or at least better of!!!).
Quote:
Lost me when he made his subtle anti-vaxxer quack comment
Subtle?
He flat out said that vaccines cause autism which has been definitively shown to be a fake statement.
Quote:
In comment 13994191 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
Lost me when he made his subtle anti-vaxxer quack comment
Subtle?
He flat out said that vaccines cause autism which has been definitively shown to be a fake statement.
Bill L, again, I NEVER said that vaccines cause autism. I just noted that many see a correlation. Vaccines and Autism are not my area of expertise and I noted that from the outset. Why would you assume this? I'd be interested in understanding your conclusion above?
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In comment 13994256 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 13994191 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
Lost me when he made his subtle anti-vaxxer quack comment
Subtle?
He flat out said that vaccines cause autism which has been definitively shown to be a fake statement.
Bill L, again, I NEVER said that vaccines cause autism. I just noted that many see a correlation. Vaccines and Autism are not my area of expertise and I noted that from the outset. Why would you assume this? I'd be interested in understanding your conclusion above?
People who lack knowledge see a correlation. They likely also see ghosts, aliens, and people talking in tongues, waving of the hands and other such holistic approaches curing terminal consitions.
Research is collecting relevant, objective data, testing hypotheses and publishing results in peer-reviewed journals. So everything that BillL and others have said on this thread is correct.
They shouldn't have insulted you, because now you think its personal. Its not. You are just wrong. Thats all.
As I noted above, I like many of you had my reservations about holistic protocols and organic this and that. But when you are in enough pain; when you have laboratory reports from blood, urine, saliva, stool and hair samples that TELL YOU what is going on with you that is causing your problems, you begin to see and realize that living a "clean" lifestyle is best. It is a journey, baby steps at times, and perfection is of the devil so do your best.
I challenge BBI to make one small change in any of these areas (your choice) and tell me how you feel after 30 days?
- drink clean, purified water. Bottled water doesn't count. The TOP simple filter is ZERO Water. A reverse osmosis filter or distillation are both great tools to clean your water. Here is the hard part: try to drink 1oz of water for roughly every 2 pounds you weigh. I personally start my day with 20oz of water before my "feet hit the ground" upon waking. Your body & brain will love you.
-try to turn off your smart phone, tv, laptop, etc., at least an hour before bed. Try to go to bed at the same time each night. And, here is the hard part: do not look at your social media or emails for the first 2 hours of your day.
-consider turning off your smartphone & wifi router before bed.
Its the little stuff. Stuff that we don't often really maybe think about that can lead to dramatic improvements. I won't lie: despite my "Gulf War Illness" and other health limitations I am in better shape than 99% of guys age 50 and over. It is all about choices; about having an open mind; about not judging but trying to understand; and, about what you can handle for yourself.
"It works when you work it so work it and LIVE...." - amen!
Research is collecting relevant, objective data, testing hypotheses and publishing results in peer-reviewed journals. So everything that BillL and others have said on this thread is correct.
They shouldn't have insulted you, because now you think its personal. Its not. You are just wrong. Thats all.
I'm about RESULTS. If something produces results I'm interested in knowing about it and the why.
As I noted above as well, there are unfortunately a lot of shall we say "charlatains" out there who claim this magic mushroom will rid you of this; our detox potion is #1; our 30 day program will help you lose 10 pounds and keep it off; etc., well you get it.
And yet because of the spread of holistic nonsense and anti-vax idiots, we're seeing outbreaks of a cured disease.
MN Measles Outbreak 2017 - ( New Window )
I do have something against contentions that vague treatments or "lifestyle" changes, will cure specific medical conditions, such as cancer. There are mechanistic reasons why cancer has occurred or persists and specific targeting of those mechanisms, and, especially, features unique to tumor cells, is that only way in which the tumor might be removed.
I also am not buying *anyone* (mothers, fathers, guys who make money off treatments and show up at conferences to push their treatments) who suggests any linkage between autism and vaccines. Actual, specific scientific research has disproven any. That's not even counting the fact that almost no vaccine has had thimerosol (the mercury you mentioned) in years. And, I actually do have some experience in reading primary literature and in have, at least my own opinion, a fairly decent working knowledge of how vaccines (and immunity in general) work. So, I'm okay with characterizing "moms" claiming correlations as people with no knowledge.
And yet because of the spread of holistic nonsense and anti-vax idiots, we're seeing outbreaks of a cured disease. MN Measles Outbreak 2017 - ( New Window )
I give the thought some merit but have no clue as vaccines are not an area I have studied.
I hope this clarifies things.
I do have something against contentions that vague treatments or "lifestyle" changes, will cure specific medical conditions, such as cancer. There are mechanistic reasons why cancer has occurred or persists and specific targeting of those mechanisms, and, especially, features unique to tumor cells, is that only way in which the tumor might be removed.
I also am not buying *anyone* (mothers, fathers, guys who make money off treatments and show up at conferences to push their treatments) who suggests any linkage between autism and vaccines. Actual, specific scientific research has disproven any. That's not even counting the fact that almost no vaccine has had thimerosol (the mercury you mentioned) in years. And, I actually do have some experience in reading primary literature and in have, at least my own opinion, a fairly decent working knowledge of how vaccines (and immunity in general) work. So, I'm okay with characterizing "moms" claiming correlations as people with no knowledge.
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I think that overall, you'll end up being...um, healthier.
I do have something against contentions that vague treatments or "lifestyle" changes, will cure specific medical conditions, such as cancer. There are mechanistic reasons why cancer has occurred or persists and specific targeting of those mechanisms, and, especially, features unique to tumor cells, is that only way in which the tumor might be removed.
I also am not buying *anyone* (mothers, fathers, guys who make money off treatments and show up at conferences to push their treatments) who suggests any linkage between autism and vaccines. Actual, specific scientific research has disproven any. That's not even counting the fact that almost no vaccine has had thimerosol (the mercury you mentioned) in years. And, I actually do have some experience in reading primary literature and in have, at least my own opinion, a fairly decent working knowledge of how vaccines (and immunity in general) work. So, I'm okay with characterizing "moms" claiming correlations as people with no knowledge.
did I ever say lifestyle changes cure cancer? Nope.
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In comment 13994965 Bill L said:
Quote:
I think that overall, you'll end up being...um, healthier.
I do have something against contentions that vague treatments or "lifestyle" changes, will cure specific medical conditions, such as cancer. There are mechanistic reasons why cancer has occurred or persists and specific targeting of those mechanisms, and, especially, features unique to tumor cells, is that only way in which the tumor might be removed.
I also am not buying *anyone* (mothers, fathers, guys who make money off treatments and show up at conferences to push their treatments) who suggests any linkage between autism and vaccines. Actual, specific scientific research has disproven any. That's not even counting the fact that almost no vaccine has had thimerosol (the mercury you mentioned) in years. And, I actually do have some experience in reading primary literature and in have, at least my own opinion, a fairly decent working knowledge of how vaccines (and immunity in general) work. So, I'm okay with characterizing "moms" claiming correlations as people with no knowledge.
did I ever say lifestyle changes cure cancer? Nope.
You said it boggled your mind how people didn't adopt one as a treatment of their tumor.
But that doesn't mean that people choosing not to do those things should boggle your mind; they will not fare any worse, than those who do.
But that doesn't mean that people choosing not to do those things should boggle your mind; they will not fare any worse, than those who do.
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so long as it makes you feel better. I've no complaints about that.
But that doesn't mean that people choosing not to do those things should boggle your mind; they will not fare any worse, than those who do.
on that, I'd disagree. But we can agree to disagree.
Show me the data. Then we might not even disagree.
Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.
Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?
I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.
So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
As I noted above as well, there are unfortunately a lot of shall we say "charlatains" out there who claim this magic mushroom will rid you of this;
Wait. I'm sorry, but this basically describes one of the very things in option 2 of your original post.
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Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.
Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?
I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.
So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
The #1 indicator as I understand it with cancers is the DESIRE to WANT TO GET BETTER & LIVE! If someone doesn't have that desire their chances aren't as good.
And yes, there are folks who have had cancer and gone the holistic route and healed. But there are also many that have tried the holistic approach ONLY and died. Chemo is tough on the body and kills more than just cancer.
Simply put, my WHOLE premise in this thread is if you have say cancer (or any disease) consider lifestyle changes as well. For example, both of my parents began experiencing "forgetfullness" at age 79. A review of their bloodwork revealed they both had very low vitamin B levels. That to me meant that diet is the most likely culprit. Adding some complex vitamin B supplementation has them both remembering again at age 80. Just a simple change and an example of trying to find the root cause(s). Most western MD's are not really trained in nutrition. Not their fault it just isn't part of their training.
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Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.
Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?
I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.
So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
You are what you ABSORB (spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally).
Quote:
Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.
Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?
I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.
So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
You are what you ABSORB (spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally).
And, any doctor, western or not, can diagnose a Vitamin deficiency and rectify it.
And, any doctor, western or not, can diagnose a Vitamin deficiency and rectify it.
I picked this one as an example because Dr. Malkus had the strength and vision to share his story and help others.
Holistic Protocol: Healed from tumor - ( New Window )
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In comment 13994478 SGMen said:
Quote:
Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.
Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?
I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.
So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
When I went organic; when I went to grass fed meats ONLY; when I removed every toxic thing that can tough my skin, mouth; well, that is when my lab results showed positive changes.
You are what you ABSORB (spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally).
How did you get all the pesticides off your organic foods?
You're not one of those people who thinks organic means no pesticides, are you?
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by only holistic...whatever that is...treatment. Unless they also were touched by God.
And, any doctor, western or not, can diagnose a Vitamin deficiency and rectify it.
There are a lot of people who chose NOT to do traditional western medicine protocols and healed.
I picked this one as an example because Dr. Malkus had the strength and vision to share his story and help others. Holistic Protocol: Healed from tumor - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
That said i cant take a discussion about not getting vaccines seriously. As for organic foods, the most time that passes the more of a marketing ploy it becomes. Theres almost no added benefit to eating organic foods.
Know the ingredients in your food, thats the best way to control what you are eating. Everything else is on the verge of being bullshit.
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In comment 13995085 jhibb said:
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In comment 13994478 SGMen said:
Quote:
Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.
Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?
I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.
So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
When I went organic; when I went to grass fed meats ONLY; when I removed every toxic thing that can tough my skin, mouth; well, that is when my lab results showed positive changes.
You are what you ABSORB (spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally).
How did you get all the pesticides off your organic foods?
You're not one of those people who thinks organic means no pesticides, are you?
Note: European organic tends to be quite clean of herbicides like those made by Monsanto. The glysophate in Roundup herbicide is bad news for the body. My organic acids test showed great improvement from 2017 to 2018. And if China says its organic, I'd be leery. Many of their organic products have been found to have high levels of heavy metals and other chemicals.
My organic farmer did say one thing to me "SG...I can control the ground, the seed, my spray; BUT, I can't control the rain, the wind." We are slowly but surely polluting this planet. Dr. Wendy Myers, like me, had heavy metal, pesticide and herbicide issues and it took her some time to clean it all out. Our bodies are wonderful mechanisms that can heal themselves when we FEED them the proper nutrients.
That said i cant take a discussion about not getting vaccines seriously. As for organic foods, the most time that passes the more of a marketing ploy it becomes. Theres almost no added benefit to eating organic foods.
Know the ingredients in your food, thats the best way to control what you are eating. Everything else is on the verge of being bullshit.
That said i cant take a discussion about not getting vaccines seriously. As for organic foods, the most time that passes the more of a marketing ploy it becomes. Theres almost no added benefit to eating organic foods.
Know the ingredients in your food, thats the best way to control what you are eating. Everything else is on the verge of being bullshit.
John Reganold, professor of soil science at Washington State University in Pullman, Wash. - ( New Window )
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that have cancer get treatment and recover.
That said i cant take a discussion about not getting vaccines seriously. As for organic foods, the most time that passes the more of a marketing ploy it becomes. Theres almost no added benefit to eating organic foods.
Know the ingredients in your food, thats the best way to control what you are eating. Everything else is on the verge of being bullshit.
No one including me has said DO NOT VACCINATE. But I know I have mentioned that many are not pro-vaccine. The Amish, for example, do not vaccinate and their children tend to be healthy and rarely autistic.
There is a group of Jehovah's Witnesses in NY that is suffering from a a measles outbreak. Mumps has run rampant in college campuses over the past several years. We've had a ton of flu fatalities just this year.
No offense, but citing the Amish is for anything health-related is just plain dumb.
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In comment 13995294 Bill L said:
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by only holistic...whatever that is...treatment. Unless they also were touched by God.
And, any doctor, western or not, can diagnose a Vitamin deficiency and rectify it.
There are a lot of people who chose NOT to do traditional western medicine protocols and healed.
I picked this one as an example because Dr. Malkus had the strength and vision to share his story and help others. Holistic Protocol: Healed from tumor - ( New Window )
Right back at ya Link - ( New Window )
Dr. Malkus helped a lot of people by helping them change their lifestyles. The fact that he was a man of faith is important. Could God heal you from anything if He chose? Sure...but just asking or praying or going to some charlaitan claiming his holy water will "cure" you isn't a guarantee of anything. Charlatains often take advantage of sick people and take their money. It is a shame that it happens.
"Do vaccines cause autism."
T or F?
I'd answer F, they haven't been proven to cause autism despite the correlation.
My third cousin, Jason, was a "normal" little boy and even began speaking a few words. A short time after his vaccination he not only stopped speaking but wasn't "right" so the parents took him to the pediatrician. Some time later, he was diagnosed with autism and now he is non-verbal and requires a lot of attention. Did the vaccine cause autism or is it just a timeline thing? If you read journal excerpts the bottom line is Dr.'s can't say with 100% assurance what causes autism; and, mainstream scientific research seems to indicate no direct correlation between receiving a vaccine and getting autism.
We may know what causes autism and why autism rates seem to have grown over the last few decades. But there are a lot of smart people working towards figuring it out and hopefully nipping it in the bud. If it is some genetic thing we haven't mapped yet, well, so be it.
That is how I come out on the subject. But I respect the mom's, doctor's, researchers and the like who have kids with autism and are seeking healing. Amen.
"Do vaccines cause autism."
T or F?
I'd answer F, they haven't been proven to cause autism despite the correlation.
My third cousin, Jason, was a "normal" little boy and even began speaking a few words. A short time after his vaccination he not only stopped speaking but wasn't "right" so the parents took him to the pediatrician. Some time later, he was diagnosed with autism and now he is non-verbal and requires a lot of attention. Did the vaccine cause autism or is it just a timeline thing? If you read journal excerpts the bottom line is Dr.'s can't say with 100% assurance what causes autism; and, mainstream scientific research seems to indicate no direct correlation between receiving a vaccine and getting autism.
We may know what causes autism and why autism rates seem to have grown over the last few decades. But there are a lot of smart people working towards figuring it out and hopefully nipping it in the bud. If it is some genetic thing we haven't mapped yet, well, so be it.
That is how I come out on the subject. But I respect the mom's, doctor's, researchers and the like who have kids with autism and are seeking healing. Amen.
Note: European organic tends to be quite clean of herbicides like those made by Monsanto. The glysophate in Roundup herbicide is bad news for the body. My organic acids test showed great improvement from 2017 to 2018. And if China says its organic, I'd be leery. Many of their organic products have been found to have high levels of heavy metals and other chemicals.
My organic farmer did say one thing to me "SG...I can control the ground, the seed, my spray; BUT, I can't control the rain, the wind." We are slowly but surely polluting this planet. Dr. Wendy Myers, like me, had heavy metal, pesticide and herbicide issues and it took her some time to clean it all out. Our bodies are wonderful mechanisms that can heal themselves when we FEED them the proper nutrients.
No they don't. It's marketing BS that makes people think they do. (I'm out of my free articles, but search for the WaPo article titled 'The Truth about organic produce and pesticides'.
That said, grass fed beef may be marginally healthier (see link).
Link - ( New Window )
"Do vaccines cause autism."
T or F?
I'd answer F, they haven't been proven to cause autism despite the correlation.
My third cousin, Jason, was a "normal" little boy and even began speaking a few words. A short time after his vaccination he not only stopped speaking but wasn't "right" so the parents took him to the pediatrician. Some time later, he was diagnosed with autism and now he is non-verbal and requires a lot of attention. Did the vaccine cause autism or is it just a timeline thing? If you read journal excerpts the bottom line is Dr.'s can't say with 100% assurance what causes autism; and, mainstream scientific research seems to indicate no direct correlation between receiving a vaccine and getting autism.
We may know what causes autism and why autism rates seem to have grown over the last few decades. But there are a lot of smart people working towards figuring it out and hopefully nipping it in the bud. If it is some genetic thing we haven't mapped yet, well, so be it.
That is how I come out on the subject. But I respect the mom's, doctor's, researchers and the like who have kids with autism and are seeking healing. Amen.
If I had a college exam that I had to score a 100 on to get a graduate scholarship, and question was:
"Do organic foods cause autism."
T or F?
I'd answer F, organic foods haven't been proven to cause autism despite the correlation:
(Insert here some anecdote about someone's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate who fed her family nothing but organic food and her child ended up with autism. Obviously meant to obfuscate the matter with a personal emotional story that works against that cold, unfeeling science. Obviously I just answered False because I know that that's what my stupid professor thinks.)