what would you do?
1. Just follow the doctor's orders and push through?
2 Follow the doctor's orders for chemotherapy but also I'd take on a holistic lifestyle of just organic vegetables & fruits; organic herbal Chaga & herbal teas; Chaga tincture; Ceylon cinnamon, clean purified water, sunlight, etc.
I'd do #2 of course so it boggles my mind that a friend isn't considering the herbal path. She has the desire to live, for sure.
Thoughts? Experiences??
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In comment 13994256 Bill L said:
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In comment 13994191 Ned In Atlanta said:
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Lost me when he made his subtle anti-vaxxer quack comment
Subtle?
He flat out said that vaccines cause autism which has been definitively shown to be a fake statement.
Bill L, again, I NEVER said that vaccines cause autism. I just noted that many see a correlation. Vaccines and Autism are not my area of expertise and I noted that from the outset. Why would you assume this? I'd be interested in understanding your conclusion above?
People who lack knowledge see a correlation. They likely also see ghosts, aliens, and people talking in tongues, waving of the hands and other such holistic approaches curing terminal consitions.
Research is collecting relevant, objective data, testing hypotheses and publishing results in peer-reviewed journals. So everything that BillL and others have said on this thread is correct.
They shouldn't have insulted you, because now you think its personal. Its not. You are just wrong. Thats all.
As I noted above, I like many of you had my reservations about holistic protocols and organic this and that. But when you are in enough pain; when you have laboratory reports from blood, urine, saliva, stool and hair samples that TELL YOU what is going on with you that is causing your problems, you begin to see and realize that living a "clean" lifestyle is best. It is a journey, baby steps at times, and perfection is of the devil so do your best.
I challenge BBI to make one small change in any of these areas (your choice) and tell me how you feel after 30 days?
- drink clean, purified water. Bottled water doesn't count. The TOP simple filter is ZERO Water. A reverse osmosis filter or distillation are both great tools to clean your water. Here is the hard part: try to drink 1oz of water for roughly every 2 pounds you weigh. I personally start my day with 20oz of water before my "feet hit the ground" upon waking. Your body & brain will love you.
-try to turn off your smart phone, tv, laptop, etc., at least an hour before bed. Try to go to bed at the same time each night. And, here is the hard part: do not look at your social media or emails for the first 2 hours of your day.
-consider turning off your smartphone & wifi router before bed.
Its the little stuff. Stuff that we don't often really maybe think about that can lead to dramatic improvements. I won't lie: despite my "Gulf War Illness" and other health limitations I am in better shape than 99% of guys age 50 and over. It is all about choices; about having an open mind; about not judging but trying to understand; and, about what you can handle for yourself.
"It works when you work it so work it and LIVE...." - amen!
Research is collecting relevant, objective data, testing hypotheses and publishing results in peer-reviewed journals. So everything that BillL and others have said on this thread is correct.
They shouldn't have insulted you, because now you think its personal. Its not. You are just wrong. Thats all.
I'm about RESULTS. If something produces results I'm interested in knowing about it and the why.
As I noted above as well, there are unfortunately a lot of shall we say "charlatains" out there who claim this magic mushroom will rid you of this; our detox potion is #1; our 30 day program will help you lose 10 pounds and keep it off; etc., well you get it.
And yet because of the spread of holistic nonsense and anti-vax idiots, we're seeing outbreaks of a cured disease.
MN Measles Outbreak 2017 - ( New Window )
I do have something against contentions that vague treatments or "lifestyle" changes, will cure specific medical conditions, such as cancer. There are mechanistic reasons why cancer has occurred or persists and specific targeting of those mechanisms, and, especially, features unique to tumor cells, is that only way in which the tumor might be removed.
I also am not buying *anyone* (mothers, fathers, guys who make money off treatments and show up at conferences to push their treatments) who suggests any linkage between autism and vaccines. Actual, specific scientific research has disproven any. That's not even counting the fact that almost no vaccine has had thimerosol (the mercury you mentioned) in years. And, I actually do have some experience in reading primary literature and in have, at least my own opinion, a fairly decent working knowledge of how vaccines (and immunity in general) work. So, I'm okay with characterizing "moms" claiming correlations as people with no knowledge.
And yet because of the spread of holistic nonsense and anti-vax idiots, we're seeing outbreaks of a cured disease. MN Measles Outbreak 2017 - ( New Window )
I give the thought some merit but have no clue as vaccines are not an area I have studied.
I hope this clarifies things.
I do have something against contentions that vague treatments or "lifestyle" changes, will cure specific medical conditions, such as cancer. There are mechanistic reasons why cancer has occurred or persists and specific targeting of those mechanisms, and, especially, features unique to tumor cells, is that only way in which the tumor might be removed.
I also am not buying *anyone* (mothers, fathers, guys who make money off treatments and show up at conferences to push their treatments) who suggests any linkage between autism and vaccines. Actual, specific scientific research has disproven any. That's not even counting the fact that almost no vaccine has had thimerosol (the mercury you mentioned) in years. And, I actually do have some experience in reading primary literature and in have, at least my own opinion, a fairly decent working knowledge of how vaccines (and immunity in general) work. So, I'm okay with characterizing "moms" claiming correlations as people with no knowledge.
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I think that overall, you'll end up being...um, healthier.
I do have something against contentions that vague treatments or "lifestyle" changes, will cure specific medical conditions, such as cancer. There are mechanistic reasons why cancer has occurred or persists and specific targeting of those mechanisms, and, especially, features unique to tumor cells, is that only way in which the tumor might be removed.
I also am not buying *anyone* (mothers, fathers, guys who make money off treatments and show up at conferences to push their treatments) who suggests any linkage between autism and vaccines. Actual, specific scientific research has disproven any. That's not even counting the fact that almost no vaccine has had thimerosol (the mercury you mentioned) in years. And, I actually do have some experience in reading primary literature and in have, at least my own opinion, a fairly decent working knowledge of how vaccines (and immunity in general) work. So, I'm okay with characterizing "moms" claiming correlations as people with no knowledge.
did I ever say lifestyle changes cure cancer? Nope.
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In comment 13994965 Bill L said:
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I think that overall, you'll end up being...um, healthier.
I do have something against contentions that vague treatments or "lifestyle" changes, will cure specific medical conditions, such as cancer. There are mechanistic reasons why cancer has occurred or persists and specific targeting of those mechanisms, and, especially, features unique to tumor cells, is that only way in which the tumor might be removed.
I also am not buying *anyone* (mothers, fathers, guys who make money off treatments and show up at conferences to push their treatments) who suggests any linkage between autism and vaccines. Actual, specific scientific research has disproven any. That's not even counting the fact that almost no vaccine has had thimerosol (the mercury you mentioned) in years. And, I actually do have some experience in reading primary literature and in have, at least my own opinion, a fairly decent working knowledge of how vaccines (and immunity in general) work. So, I'm okay with characterizing "moms" claiming correlations as people with no knowledge.
did I ever say lifestyle changes cure cancer? Nope.
You said it boggled your mind how people didn't adopt one as a treatment of their tumor.
But that doesn't mean that people choosing not to do those things should boggle your mind; they will not fare any worse, than those who do.
But that doesn't mean that people choosing not to do those things should boggle your mind; they will not fare any worse, than those who do.
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so long as it makes you feel better. I've no complaints about that.
But that doesn't mean that people choosing not to do those things should boggle your mind; they will not fare any worse, than those who do.
on that, I'd disagree. But we can agree to disagree.
Show me the data. Then we might not even disagree.
Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.
Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?
I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.
So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
As I noted above as well, there are unfortunately a lot of shall we say "charlatains" out there who claim this magic mushroom will rid you of this;
Wait. I'm sorry, but this basically describes one of the very things in option 2 of your original post.
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Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.
Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?
I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.
So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
The #1 indicator as I understand it with cancers is the DESIRE to WANT TO GET BETTER & LIVE! If someone doesn't have that desire their chances aren't as good.
And yes, there are folks who have had cancer and gone the holistic route and healed. But there are also many that have tried the holistic approach ONLY and died. Chemo is tough on the body and kills more than just cancer.
Simply put, my WHOLE premise in this thread is if you have say cancer (or any disease) consider lifestyle changes as well. For example, both of my parents began experiencing "forgetfullness" at age 79. A review of their bloodwork revealed they both had very low vitamin B levels. That to me meant that diet is the most likely culprit. Adding some complex vitamin B supplementation has them both remembering again at age 80. Just a simple change and an example of trying to find the root cause(s). Most western MD's are not really trained in nutrition. Not their fault it just isn't part of their training.
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Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.
Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?
I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.
So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
You are what you ABSORB (spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally).
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Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.
Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?
I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.
So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
You are what you ABSORB (spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally).
And, any doctor, western or not, can diagnose a Vitamin deficiency and rectify it.
And, any doctor, western or not, can diagnose a Vitamin deficiency and rectify it.
I picked this one as an example because Dr. Malkus had the strength and vision to share his story and help others.
Holistic Protocol: Healed from tumor - ( New Window )
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In comment 13994478 SGMen said:
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Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.
Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?
I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.
So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
When I went organic; when I went to grass fed meats ONLY; when I removed every toxic thing that can tough my skin, mouth; well, that is when my lab results showed positive changes.
You are what you ABSORB (spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally).
How did you get all the pesticides off your organic foods?
You're not one of those people who thinks organic means no pesticides, are you?
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by only holistic...whatever that is...treatment. Unless they also were touched by God.
And, any doctor, western or not, can diagnose a Vitamin deficiency and rectify it.
There are a lot of people who chose NOT to do traditional western medicine protocols and healed.
I picked this one as an example because Dr. Malkus had the strength and vision to share his story and help others. Holistic Protocol: Healed from tumor - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
That said i cant take a discussion about not getting vaccines seriously. As for organic foods, the most time that passes the more of a marketing ploy it becomes. Theres almost no added benefit to eating organic foods.
Know the ingredients in your food, thats the best way to control what you are eating. Everything else is on the verge of being bullshit.
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In comment 13995085 jhibb said:
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In comment 13994478 SGMen said:
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Neither chemo nor holistic are guaranteed approaches.
Intentional or not, you seem to imply an equivalence here that is in fact a false equivalence. The fact that neither is perfect does not mean that they are on the same footing (or even close, really). While neither is perfect, one has actual scientific evidence proving its effectiveness while most of points of the other rely solely on anecdotal evidence and pseudo-scientific thinking. How many times in this thread alone have you backed up an idea with "I know people who..."?
I say "most of" the points because there are some general ideas in the holistic approach that are backed by science, but the thing is, these are already part of conventional medicine. Good nutrition, sleep, exercise, hydration, etc are all things that are recommended.
So when you spout those ideas, sure, you sound reasonable. It's when you get into specifics that you lose me (pushing organic, non-GMO, tinctures and the like, spreading doubt about vaccines, etc).
When I went organic; when I went to grass fed meats ONLY; when I removed every toxic thing that can tough my skin, mouth; well, that is when my lab results showed positive changes.
You are what you ABSORB (spiritually, physically, mentally and emotionally).
How did you get all the pesticides off your organic foods?
You're not one of those people who thinks organic means no pesticides, are you?
Note: European organic tends to be quite clean of herbicides like those made by Monsanto. The glysophate in Roundup herbicide is bad news for the body. My organic acids test showed great improvement from 2017 to 2018. And if China says its organic, I'd be leery. Many of their organic products have been found to have high levels of heavy metals and other chemicals.
My organic farmer did say one thing to me "SG...I can control the ground, the seed, my spray; BUT, I can't control the rain, the wind." We are slowly but surely polluting this planet. Dr. Wendy Myers, like me, had heavy metal, pesticide and herbicide issues and it took her some time to clean it all out. Our bodies are wonderful mechanisms that can heal themselves when we FEED them the proper nutrients.
That said i cant take a discussion about not getting vaccines seriously. As for organic foods, the most time that passes the more of a marketing ploy it becomes. Theres almost no added benefit to eating organic foods.
Know the ingredients in your food, thats the best way to control what you are eating. Everything else is on the verge of being bullshit.
That said i cant take a discussion about not getting vaccines seriously. As for organic foods, the most time that passes the more of a marketing ploy it becomes. Theres almost no added benefit to eating organic foods.
Know the ingredients in your food, thats the best way to control what you are eating. Everything else is on the verge of being bullshit.
John Reganold, professor of soil science at Washington State University in Pullman, Wash. - ( New Window )
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that have cancer get treatment and recover.
That said i cant take a discussion about not getting vaccines seriously. As for organic foods, the most time that passes the more of a marketing ploy it becomes. Theres almost no added benefit to eating organic foods.
Know the ingredients in your food, thats the best way to control what you are eating. Everything else is on the verge of being bullshit.
No one including me has said DO NOT VACCINATE. But I know I have mentioned that many are not pro-vaccine. The Amish, for example, do not vaccinate and their children tend to be healthy and rarely autistic.
There is a group of Jehovah's Witnesses in NY that is suffering from a a measles outbreak. Mumps has run rampant in college campuses over the past several years. We've had a ton of flu fatalities just this year.
No offense, but citing the Amish is for anything health-related is just plain dumb.
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In comment 13995294 Bill L said:
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by only holistic...whatever that is...treatment. Unless they also were touched by God.
And, any doctor, western or not, can diagnose a Vitamin deficiency and rectify it.
There are a lot of people who chose NOT to do traditional western medicine protocols and healed.
I picked this one as an example because Dr. Malkus had the strength and vision to share his story and help others. Holistic Protocol: Healed from tumor - ( New Window )
Right back at ya Link - ( New Window )
Dr. Malkus helped a lot of people by helping them change their lifestyles. The fact that he was a man of faith is important. Could God heal you from anything if He chose? Sure...but just asking or praying or going to some charlaitan claiming his holy water will "cure" you isn't a guarantee of anything. Charlatains often take advantage of sick people and take their money. It is a shame that it happens.
"Do vaccines cause autism."
T or F?
I'd answer F, they haven't been proven to cause autism despite the correlation.
My third cousin, Jason, was a "normal" little boy and even began speaking a few words. A short time after his vaccination he not only stopped speaking but wasn't "right" so the parents took him to the pediatrician. Some time later, he was diagnosed with autism and now he is non-verbal and requires a lot of attention. Did the vaccine cause autism or is it just a timeline thing? If you read journal excerpts the bottom line is Dr.'s can't say with 100% assurance what causes autism; and, mainstream scientific research seems to indicate no direct correlation between receiving a vaccine and getting autism.
We may know what causes autism and why autism rates seem to have grown over the last few decades. But there are a lot of smart people working towards figuring it out and hopefully nipping it in the bud. If it is some genetic thing we haven't mapped yet, well, so be it.
That is how I come out on the subject. But I respect the mom's, doctor's, researchers and the like who have kids with autism and are seeking healing. Amen.
"Do vaccines cause autism."
T or F?
I'd answer F, they haven't been proven to cause autism despite the correlation.
My third cousin, Jason, was a "normal" little boy and even began speaking a few words. A short time after his vaccination he not only stopped speaking but wasn't "right" so the parents took him to the pediatrician. Some time later, he was diagnosed with autism and now he is non-verbal and requires a lot of attention. Did the vaccine cause autism or is it just a timeline thing? If you read journal excerpts the bottom line is Dr.'s can't say with 100% assurance what causes autism; and, mainstream scientific research seems to indicate no direct correlation between receiving a vaccine and getting autism.
We may know what causes autism and why autism rates seem to have grown over the last few decades. But there are a lot of smart people working towards figuring it out and hopefully nipping it in the bud. If it is some genetic thing we haven't mapped yet, well, so be it.
That is how I come out on the subject. But I respect the mom's, doctor's, researchers and the like who have kids with autism and are seeking healing. Amen.
Note: European organic tends to be quite clean of herbicides like those made by Monsanto. The glysophate in Roundup herbicide is bad news for the body. My organic acids test showed great improvement from 2017 to 2018. And if China says its organic, I'd be leery. Many of their organic products have been found to have high levels of heavy metals and other chemicals.
My organic farmer did say one thing to me "SG...I can control the ground, the seed, my spray; BUT, I can't control the rain, the wind." We are slowly but surely polluting this planet. Dr. Wendy Myers, like me, had heavy metal, pesticide and herbicide issues and it took her some time to clean it all out. Our bodies are wonderful mechanisms that can heal themselves when we FEED them the proper nutrients.
No they don't. It's marketing BS that makes people think they do. (I'm out of my free articles, but search for the WaPo article titled 'The Truth about organic produce and pesticides'.
That said, grass fed beef may be marginally healthier (see link).
Link - ( New Window )
"Do vaccines cause autism."
T or F?
I'd answer F, they haven't been proven to cause autism despite the correlation.
My third cousin, Jason, was a "normal" little boy and even began speaking a few words. A short time after his vaccination he not only stopped speaking but wasn't "right" so the parents took him to the pediatrician. Some time later, he was diagnosed with autism and now he is non-verbal and requires a lot of attention. Did the vaccine cause autism or is it just a timeline thing? If you read journal excerpts the bottom line is Dr.'s can't say with 100% assurance what causes autism; and, mainstream scientific research seems to indicate no direct correlation between receiving a vaccine and getting autism.
We may know what causes autism and why autism rates seem to have grown over the last few decades. But there are a lot of smart people working towards figuring it out and hopefully nipping it in the bud. If it is some genetic thing we haven't mapped yet, well, so be it.
That is how I come out on the subject. But I respect the mom's, doctor's, researchers and the like who have kids with autism and are seeking healing. Amen.
If I had a college exam that I had to score a 100 on to get a graduate scholarship, and question was:
"Do organic foods cause autism."
T or F?
I'd answer F, organic foods haven't been proven to cause autism despite the correlation:
(Insert here some anecdote about someone's father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate who fed her family nothing but organic food and her child ended up with autism. Obviously meant to obfuscate the matter with a personal emotional story that works against that cold, unfeeling science. Obviously I just answered False because I know that that's what my stupid professor thinks.)