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Fox Sports 2 Debate: Giants Bounce back year

dk in TX : 6/19/2018 7:42 am
Haters or a dose of realism?
FS2 - ( New Window )
Makes you realize how underrated  
Scyber : 6/19/2018 8:00 am : link
Eli's 2011 season was. I get that Eli had not been a consistently great regular season QB. But not too give him credit for that season is a travesty.
They were right until ...  
FStubbs : 6/19/2018 8:02 am : link
... they started saying Eli was never good, and there was a "reason" he was benched. The reason was the coach was an idiot. Come on now.

And it's not like the Giants didn't draft a QB to develop. Kyle Lauletta seems very highly regarded.
Dk  
joeinpa : 6/19/2018 8:02 am : link
Did you listen before posting this as a positive spin on the Giants. Lol

this is not going to go well with the guys who didn't want to draft a quarterback

For the record, if bounce back means 7-9, the two guys saying Giants made a mistake passing on Darnold, will be right.
RE: Makes you realize how underrated  
FStubbs : 6/19/2018 8:03 am : link
In comment 13994199 Scyber said:
Quote:
Eli's 2011 season was. I get that Eli had not been a consistently great regular season QB. But not too give him credit for that season is a travesty.


I don't think people outside of Giants fans have ever properly evaluated that season. That was a terrible team with a QB playing out of his mind. If it were Rodgers or Roethlisberger they'd constantly be pointing this out.
RE: Makes you realize how underrated  
Jimmy Googs : 6/19/2018 8:10 am : link
In comment 13994199 Scyber said:
Quote:
Eli's 2011 season was. I get that Eli had not been a consistently great regular season QB. But not too give him credit for that season is a travesty.


Eli had a great year and it is certainly given plenty of credit here on BBI by almost everyone.

Bottom line though is Rodger's year was phenomenal and his team went 15-1 and ran away with the MVP. Brady and Brees also were superb and I think they only got a few votes. Manning I presume was 4th.

Eli got the most important recognition that matters...superbowl winner and mvp of that game.

Who the fuck are those guys?  
George from PA : 6/19/2018 8:15 am : link
We heard the Barkley vs QB argument. None of the QBs are lighting it up.....and even more important, none did as well as Webb. So old news.

Eli has underperformed....I feel he is a QB that needs a clean pocket...and Reese has never been able to resolve it.
Hopefully, the OL can finally deliver a quality pocket.

I trust Shumur more then those talking heads
RE: RE: Makes you realize how underrated  
FStubbs : 6/19/2018 8:19 am : link
In comment 13994205 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13994199 Scyber said:


Quote:


Eli's 2011 season was. I get that Eli had not been a consistently great regular season QB. But not too give him credit for that season is a travesty.



Eli had a great year and it is certainly given plenty of credit here on BBI by almost everyone.

Bottom line though is Rodger's year was phenomenal and his team went 15-1 and ran away with the MVP. Brady and Brees also were superb and I think they only got a few votes. Manning I presume was 4th.

Eli got the most important recognition that matters...superbowl winner and mvp of that game.


Take Rodgers away from that Green Bay team and they still probably make the playoffs. Take Eli away from that 2011 team and they're just as bad as the 2017 Giants.
I just listened to the video and I think they all made reasonable  
Jimmy Googs : 6/19/2018 8:28 am : link
points for the most part, and almost mirror the healthy discussions (ha ha) we have on BBI.

The only stupid thing I heard was the guy who said Barkley was "fair" at running the ball, but I think he was doing it for effect because he gave SB his due...
RE: RE: RE: Makes you realize how underrated  
njm : 6/19/2018 8:34 am : link
In comment 13994209 FStubbs said:
Quote:


Take Rodgers away from that Green Bay team and they still probably make the playoffs. Take Eli away from that 2011 team and they're just as bad as the 2017 Giants.


Only if you factor in the same degree of injuries. The 2011 team wasn't working with the #4, 5 & 6 WRs for the bulk of the season. And then there is the OL.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Makes you realize how underrated  
Jimmy Googs : 6/19/2018 8:38 am : link
In comment 13994217 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 13994209 FStubbs said:


Quote:




Take Rodgers away from that Green Bay team and they still probably make the playoffs. Take Eli away from that 2011 team and they're just as bad as the 2017 Giants.



The 2011 Green Bay Packers defense gave up more yards than anybody in the league...dead last. They were slightly better in points as they forced a bunch of turnovers but they were far from a stout defense.

They don't make the playoffs w/o Rodgers. Agree with you on Eli for certain.
George  
joeinpa : 6/19/2018 8:48 am : link
You are making the case that Webb is better than all the rookies, based on what.

You might be right, hope you are, but to make that case now is premature.

Guys that wanted to pass on a quarterback are going to have to come to grips that it was a gamble. Could be a great move, or a collosal blunder

You got want you wanted, Barkley, Now Giants have to deliver in the short term of a running backs career, or be willing to admit 10 years from now if Darnold is still playing and delivering for the Jets that they goofed.

I think that s pretty obvious.


RE: Who the fuck are those guys?  
Jimmy Googs : 6/19/2018 9:27 am : link
In comment 13994206 George from PA said:
Quote:
We heard the Barkley vs QB argument. None of the QBs are lighting it up.....and even more important, none did as well as Webb. So old news.



Nobody has played a real down yet, including Webb. And you are assessing who is lighting it up or not??
RE: RE: Makes you realize how underrated  
Scyber : 6/19/2018 9:28 am : link
In comment 13994205 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13994199 Scyber said:


Quote:


Eli's 2011 season was. I get that Eli had not been a consistently great regular season QB. But not too give him credit for that season is a travesty.



Eli had a great year and it is certainly given plenty of credit here on BBI by almost everyone.

Bottom line though is Rodger's year was phenomenal and his team went 15-1 and ran away with the MVP. Brady and Brees also were superb and I think they only got a few votes. Manning I presume was 4th.

Eli got the most important recognition that matters...superbowl winner and mvp of that game.


The biggest issue for Eli not getting the recognition he deserved that season was that it was the year that 3 QBs broke Marino's yardage record (Brady, Brees, and Stafford). Between that and Rodgers 15-1 season, there was little press attention to the amazing season Eli had.

I guess my primary complaint with the video was the one guy said that even during the SB seasons Eli "didn't play all that well". That is flat out wrong about 2011
Ive read  
dep026 : 6/19/2018 9:29 am : link
That Allen and Darnold have real shots to start. Rosen will backup and then play if Bradford gets hurt, so that will be like week 2.

Mayfield will probably take over once the Browns are out of the playoffs.
RE: George  
Jimmy Googs : 6/19/2018 9:31 am : link
In comment 13994228 joeinpa said:
Quote:


You got want you wanted, Barkley, Now Giants have to deliver in the short term of a running backs career, or be willing to admit 10 years from now if Darnold is still playing and delivering for the Jets that they goofed.


If the Giants find their next good QB in one of their backups or a future draft, then they will not have "goofed" though...right?

Scyber i agree on your last point. Good catch  
Jimmy Googs : 6/19/2018 9:33 am : link
He made that comment I assume moreso for 2007 than 2011. As Eli had some really bad regular games in 2007.
Not for nothing....but anybody on BBI making some type of  
Jimmy Googs : 6/19/2018 9:37 am : link
assessment which rookie QB (or Webb) is or is not "lighting it up" in spring/summer training camps should go see a doctor and have their head examined...
the 2011 Giants were awful ar running the ball  
Paulie Walnuts : 6/19/2018 9:40 am : link
they road Eli, Cruz and the defensive front to a win
I believe the longest run of year happened in playoffs versus Atlanta..

that season alone should make Eli first ballot HOF
That being said, its down to this year for Eli
he plays well, he plays QB in 2019, if he doesnt, he is replaced
Eli is just an easy target  
blueblood : 6/19/2018 9:56 am : link
because he isnt Brees, Brady or Rodgers..

All Time passing yards.. Eli is 6th...
Passes Completed.. Eli again.. 6th
Passing TD's Eli is 8th and will be 7th very shortly..


Now lets talk about those interception.. Eli isnt even in the top ten.. you would think he is number one when you hear these guys talk... he is 15 and you know who he is TIED with..
DREW BREES.. you NEVER hear them talk about Drew Brees interceptions..

and they seem to readily ignore the fact Eli has had a sub par OL for YEARS.. and a sub par running game for YEARS.. not one or two years.. YEARS like try four or five..

YES Eli has had his fair share of blunders and mishaps.. but these guys need to actually know something about the Giants before they start blabbering..
RE: Who the fuck are those guys?  
QB Snacks : 6/19/2018 10:01 am : link
In comment 13994206 George from PA said:
Quote:
We heard the Barkley vs QB argument. None of the QBs are lighting it up.....and even more important, none did as well as Webb. So old news.

Eli has underperformed....I feel he is a QB that needs a clean pocket...and Reese has never been able to resolve it.
Hopefully, the OL can finally deliver a quality pocket.

I trust Shumur more then those talking heads


What are you talking about?
Googs  
joeinpa : 6/19/2018 10:09 am : link
Right
That's not a "bounce back" debate  
JohnB : 6/19/2018 10:10 am : link
That's a "let's rehash the draft" debate.
RE: That's not a  
blueblood : 6/19/2018 10:11 am : link
In comment 13994313 JohnB said:
Quote:
That's a "let's rehash the draft" debate.


Truth
define bounce back...  
giantsFC : 6/19/2018 10:24 am : link
I mean winning 6 games is bouncing back from last year.

I think the Giants can easily win with a QB of Eli Manning's ability at this stage in his career for the next 3 years. Just see the Eagles and Vikings and Jags as proof of that.

But this defense looks a mess!! I think the team is a year away from any serious playoff contention.

Its all subjective, but I would say if the team  
Jimmy Googs : 6/19/2018 10:37 am : link
doesn't contend for serious playoff contention, then it has not really bounced back.

That would be more "bouncing around"...
RE: Ive read  
markky : 6/19/2018 10:47 am : link
In comment 13994251 dep026 said:
Quote:
That Allen and Darnold have real shots to start. Rosen will backup and then play if Bradford gets hurt, so that will be like week 2.

Mayfield will probably take over once the Browns are out of the playoffs.


so Mayfield will also start week 2
Correct....no real plays....I am just extrapolating the info  
George from PA : 6/19/2018 10:53 am : link
At my disposal....

Webb has done better than expected...and most of the rookies have struggled to one degree or another. None have taken the #1 QB spot over limited or questionable starting QBs.

From the hype, I would have assumed

Rosen as most QB ready would be pushing to start.
Baker seems further away then expected
Allen has a clear path and hasn't taken control.
Getting mix signal from Jets camp....but Darnold seems to be doing the best from the top guys....but right now, I feel better with Webb, personally. As these guys all had red flags.

I liked Barkley....but I would have accepted the obvious choices in the draft....
Their top rated QB, trade down or some combo.

My only caveat would have been to release Eli sooner then later if they selected a QB at 2.....as a #2 pick would be wasted on the sidelines for 2 to 3 years.
George  
joeinpa : 6/19/2018 12:38 pm : link
Yep that would have been my wish. Draft a quarterback let Eli have this year and baring an unexpected push towards a championship move in in 19.

If Giants were close then stay with Eli. All that might transpire with Webb
Always thought Barkley  
TMS : 6/19/2018 12:56 pm : link
or trade down from the beginning. The signals were all there, that we were going with ELI this season, and maybe next, from the minute DG became GM. This was all discussed with the owners before he was hired IMO.
Barkley and Flowers moved to RT  
Alwaysblue22 : 6/19/2018 1:01 pm : link
Can make people optimistic along with Willie Hernandez at Guard. But the biggest reason for optimism is the absence of Mac don't have a clue as HC. But we will see how this team plays together in REAL GAMES. Then the optimism can fade quickly.
RE: Dk  
lax counsel : 6/19/2018 2:14 pm : link
In comment 13994202 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Did you listen before posting this as a positive spin on the Giants. Lol

this is not going to go well with the guys who didn't want to draft a quarterback

For the record, if bounce back means 7-9, the two guys saying Giants made a mistake passing on Darnold, will be right.


100% correct. If the Giants wallow in mediocrity for the next two season, AND IF Darnold turns into a legitimate franchise qb, the Giants will have made one of the worst mistakes in franchise history, it's not debatable.

Now if the Giants win a title in the next two seasons, selecting Barkley would have made all the sense in the world. If bounce back means 6-10/7-9/8-8, it would have been a monumental failure on the Giants part and DG and his staff should be gone quicker than they arrived and Mara should issue a public apology to all fans.

Let the chips fall where they may, the Giants rolled the dice, let's see if they get burned.
FS2 Really?  
Giantslifer : 6/19/2018 2:16 pm : link
There is a reason that show is on FS2 . IT SUCKS.
RE: RE: George  
lax counsel : 6/19/2018 2:18 pm : link
In comment 13994258 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13994228 joeinpa said:


Quote:




You got want you wanted, Barkley, Now Giants have to deliver in the short term of a running backs career, or be willing to admit 10 years from now if Darnold is still playing and delivering for the Jets that they goofed.




If the Giants find their next good QB in one of their backups or a future draft, then they will not have "goofed" though...right?


Chances are, if neither Webb nor Lauletta end up a good qb the Giants will have had to trade multiple first round picks to get a guy who may or may not work out. That's a significantly higher investment than Darnold with the second pick. So they could still get their guy and it could still be a goof insofar as all they did was kick the can down the road a couple of years while losing multiple picks.
Lax counsel  
George from PA : 6/19/2018 3:20 pm : link
Sure....every move has a risk/reward to it.

Darnold...looked like a sure fire NFL QB after he took down Penn St. 2 years.....but the fact that he did not improve last year.....was a major red flag.

If Barkley, the "highest graded" draftee...per several sources, turns out to be a superstar....it is hard not to draft him.....

The fact that Webb is showing promise....is comforting
RE: RE: RE: George  
Jimmy Googs : 6/19/2018 3:25 pm : link
In comment 13994486 lax counsel said:
Quote:
In comment 13994258 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 13994228 joeinpa said:


Quote:




You got want you wanted, Barkley, Now Giants have to deliver in the short term of a running backs career, or be willing to admit 10 years from now if Darnold is still playing and delivering for the Jets that they goofed.




If the Giants find their next good QB in one of their backups or a future draft, then they will not have "goofed" though...right?




Chances are, if neither Webb nor Lauletta end up a good qb the Giants will have had to trade multiple first round picks to get a guy who may or may not work out. That's a significantly higher investment than Darnold with the second pick. So they could still get their guy and it could still be a goof insofar as all they did was kick the can down the road a couple of years while losing multiple picks.


Yes, but you are like on Step 7 of a decision tree that we don't know the Giants even have to go down...
RE: Lax counsel  
dep026 : 6/19/2018 3:26 pm : link
In comment 13994536 George from PA said:
Quote:
Sure....every move has a risk/reward to it.

Darnold...looked like a sure fire NFL QB after he took down Penn St. 2 years.....but the fact that he did not improve last year.....was a major red flag.

If Barkley, the "highest graded" draftee...per several sources, turns out to be a superstar....it is hard not to draft him.....

The fact that Webb is showing promise....is comforting


Darnold improved a lot from his freshman to sophomore year. Looking at stats is being ignorant of the situation he was in last year.
Eli was amazing in 2011 regular season  
Knee of Theismann : 6/19/2018 5:01 pm : link
And his amazing play continued and got even better in 2011 postseason. I have no idea what they are talking about.

Although he didn't have a tremendously great 2007 regular season, his postseason was pretty good, and even more importantly he had the most impressive Super Bowl 4th quarter ever by any QB: 150 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, including being 1/2 of the greatest play ever in a super bowl and becoming the first QB to throw a game winning TD pass in teh last 2 min of a SB when trailing by more than 3 points.
those two make me want to throw haymakers  
gidiefor : Mod : 6/19/2018 7:28 pm : link
on them -- I really hope the Giants and that Blonde make them eat their words -- they deserve to suffer deep humiliation

And I'm tired of all the pundits with their rationale -- totally tired

It's time to kick some GD'd ass this year Giants!!
RE: RE: RE: RE: George  
lax counsel : 6/19/2018 8:28 pm : link
In comment 13994545 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13994486 lax counsel said:


Quote:


In comment 13994258 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 13994228 joeinpa said:


Quote:




You got want you wanted, Barkley, Now Giants have to deliver in the short term of a running backs career, or be willing to admit 10 years from now if Darnold is still playing and delivering for the Jets that they goofed.




If the Giants find their next good QB in one of their backups or a future draft, then they will not have "goofed" though...right?




Chances are, if neither Webb nor Lauletta end up a good qb the Giants will have had to trade multiple first round picks to get a guy who may or may not work out. That's a significantly higher investment than Darnold with the second pick. So they could still get their guy and it could still be a goof insofar as all they did was kick the can down the road a couple of years while losing multiple picks.



Yes, but you are like on Step 7 of a decision tree that we don't know the Giants even have to go down...


Absolutely, this is of course all predicated on a lot going wrong for the Giants. It could all work out according to plan and the Giants may very well have their true franchise qb on the roster along with Barkley. If that's the case, great and the Darnold decisions will look great in retrospect.
The guy saying we haven't had a running game since Tiki...  
kinard : 6/19/2018 8:40 pm : link
.... is an insult to Bradshaw and Jacobs. I'd go to war with those two in my backfield any time, any place...
I think DG has provided Eli with enough......  
Simms11 : 6/19/2018 10:25 pm : link
offensively to significantly help him. Its all on Eli this year to make it happen. I also think Shurmur will be a big help with his play calling and scheme. I think its very feasible that they can bounce back, but are playoffs a reality? Eli has had some great regular season moments, but with exception of the 2011 season, has never been very consistent in the regular season, and that cannot be argued. I think Eli will get plenty of help this year, barring injury, and biggest concern for me will be on the defensive side.
Barkley can have an MVP season this year  
NYSports1 : 6/19/2018 11:25 pm : link
and the Giants make the playoffs and if they do not win a ring in the next 2 years and Eli is gone while Webb and Kyle show nothing but future car salesman or back ups long term as well as Rosen, Darnold, Allen being a highly rated qb and turning those teams around the SB pick will be a tremendous mistake. That is not opinion that is FACT

What SB does is irrelevant if the Giants have no qb on the roster that will lead the team for years to come and those qbs that they passed on turn into great players. Imagine Darnold as the next great qb for the Jets? How will Mara ever live that down
RE: Barkley can have an MVP season this year  
lax counsel : 6/20/2018 8:51 am : link
In comment 13994882 NYSports1 said:
Quote:
and the Giants make the playoffs and if they do not win a ring in the next 2 years and Eli is gone while Webb and Kyle show nothing but future car salesman or back ups long term as well as Rosen, Darnold, Allen being a highly rated qb and turning those teams around the SB pick will be a tremendous mistake. That is not opinion that is FACT

What SB does is irrelevant if the Giants have no qb on the roster that will lead the team for years to come and those qbs that they passed on turn into great players. Imagine Darnold as the next great qb for the Jets? How will Mara ever live that down


Unfortunately, this is very true and also a realistic possibility. There was certainly added risk above and beyond the normal risk of a draft decision given (1) the position they selected and its overall value as the #2 pick (2) it's franchise qb at 37 and (3) the fact that a highly regarded was passed to the Jets.
What's the Point of This  
Percy : 6/20/2018 2:06 pm : link
pre-pad practices?
RE: Barkley can have an MVP season this year  
arcarsenal : 6/20/2018 2:11 pm : link
In comment 13994882 NYSports1 said:
Quote:
and the Giants make the playoffs and if they do not win a ring in the next 2 years and Eli is gone while Webb and Kyle show nothing but future car salesman or back ups long term as well as Rosen, Darnold, Allen being a highly rated qb and turning those teams around the SB pick will be a tremendous mistake. That is not opinion that is FACT

What SB does is irrelevant if the Giants have no qb on the roster that will lead the team for years to come and those qbs that they passed on turn into great players. Imagine Darnold as the next great qb for the Jets? How will Mara ever live that down


You're really never going to let this go, are you..

There are a billion hypotheticals in here and absolutely pointless speculation. Barkley is here, Eli is still the QB, and we'll find out what Webb and Lauletta have soon enough. You can either accept that, or keep whining until the cows come home because the Giants didn't do what you wanted them to.
RE: RE: Barkley can have an MVP season this year  
ron mexico : 6/20/2018 2:27 pm : link
In comment 13995389 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13994882 NYSports1 said:


Quote:


and the Giants make the playoffs and if they do not win a ring in the next 2 years and Eli is gone while Webb and Kyle show nothing but future car salesman or back ups long term as well as Rosen, Darnold, Allen being a highly rated qb and turning those teams around the SB pick will be a tremendous mistake. That is not opinion that is FACT

What SB does is irrelevant if the Giants have no qb on the roster that will lead the team for years to come and those qbs that they passed on turn into great players. Imagine Darnold as the next great qb for the Jets? How will Mara ever live that down



You're really never going to let this go, are you..

There are a billion hypotheticals in here and absolutely pointless speculation. Barkley is here, Eli is still the QB, and we'll find out what Webb and Lauletta have soon enough. You can either accept that, or keep whining until the cows come home because the Giants didn't do what you wanted them to.


Exactly, that is a whole bunch of IFs

Here is another IF, what if Eli plays at a high level for the next 4-5 years, and we are a serious contender during that period?
RE: RE: RE: Barkley can have an MVP season this year  
arcarsenal : 6/20/2018 2:54 pm : link
In comment 13995406 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 13995389 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 13994882 NYSports1 said:


Quote:


and the Giants make the playoffs and if they do not win a ring in the next 2 years and Eli is gone while Webb and Kyle show nothing but future car salesman or back ups long term as well as Rosen, Darnold, Allen being a highly rated qb and turning those teams around the SB pick will be a tremendous mistake. That is not opinion that is FACT

What SB does is irrelevant if the Giants have no qb on the roster that will lead the team for years to come and those qbs that they passed on turn into great players. Imagine Darnold as the next great qb for the Jets? How will Mara ever live that down



You're really never going to let this go, are you..

There are a billion hypotheticals in here and absolutely pointless speculation. Barkley is here, Eli is still the QB, and we'll find out what Webb and Lauletta have soon enough. You can either accept that, or keep whining until the cows come home because the Giants didn't do what you wanted them to.



Exactly, that is a whole bunch of IFs

Here is another IF, what if Eli plays at a high level for the next 4-5 years, and we are a serious contender during that period?


People have their mind made up and just refuse to accept certain scenarios even though they're probably equal in probability (or close) to the doomsday scenarios they love to manufacture instead.

I absolutely believe Eli's best ball is behind him, but I also believe he can still perform and succeed with the right team around him.

I typically subscribe to the "better a year early than too late" theory as far as letting players go or moving on - but QB is one position where I don't necessarily believe that. I think I need to see more proof that Eli is finished before I am ready to completely move on. I think he will surprise a lot of people this year if the protection holds up and Barkley bolsters the ground game as much as we're expecting him to.
Why do you need to see proof of anything?  
Jimmy Googs : 6/20/2018 3:26 pm : link
Gettleman watched the Eagles game (likely all of them although he quoted that one) and said Eli Manning has plenty in the tank.

What are you looking for that he cannot see?



This has zero to do with Eli, it is about taking SB at 2  
NYSports1 : 6/20/2018 3:37 pm : link
When we had a chance to get a qb to take over after Eli leaves. This is all based on Eli playing big time for 4 or 5 more years which ELi has shown nothing in the last 4 years to show that 4 more years later he will get better as he gets older.

The issue is that people think that Kyle and Webb are going to be the franchise qb with zero merti and just yearning.

I hope one is and we do not spend the next 8 years looking for a qb....That is the issue.

But if Darnold, Rosen, or Allen turn into bust then this is all good. But I personally feel all 3 of those guys will have long careers as starters and be franchise guys.
RE: This has zero to do with Eli, it is about taking SB at 2  
ron mexico : 6/20/2018 4:09 pm : link
In comment 13995489 NYSports1 said:
Quote:
When we had a chance to get a qb to take over after Eli leaves. This is all based on Eli playing big time for 4 or 5 more years which ELi has shown nothing in the last 4 years to show that 4 more years later he will get better as he gets older.

The issue is that people think that Kyle and Webb are going to be the franchise qb with zero merti and just yearning.

I hope one is and we do not spend the next 8 years looking for a qb....That is the issue.

But if Darnold, Rosen, or Allen turn into bust then this is all good. But I personally feel all 3 of those guys will have long careers as starters and be franchise guys.


You are correct that Webb and Lauletta are not guaranteed to be viable starters. But they are not the only options for succession. There are future drafts and the free agent market.

Even in the worst case scenario, there is no way it will take 8 years to find a QB, we are not the Cleveland Browns.

None of the TOP QB's wowed me .  
Bluesbreaker : 6/20/2018 5:37 pm : link
To sit here and make a bunch of hypothetical s is useless .
Five years down the road or even less it will be clear whether or not we blew the pick .
We have to consider this is a huge transformation if the defense is middle of the pack and the O-line comes together
I could see ten wins . Health is really key as always we have the weapons to do damage and do it quickly .
I'm optimistic with Schumer who I think will make good use of the weapons we have . I;m still concerned with the secondary hopefully Apple is at least solid and not a liability . I think we still need a Vet Kicker though .
I can agree with some of that but  
NYSports1 : 6/20/2018 5:47 pm : link
Saying we can get another qb with a draft pick means we gotta be terrible and draft high again and have a qb available to us that the team feels is a future stud or we gotta trade a ton of picks to move up which will make the SB pick brutal if one of those other qbs taken this year are studs. When we did not have to trade anything to take a qb. There are a ton of scenarios which makes the SB pick at 2 and passing on a qb a bad move. But if Webb or Kyle turn into franchise qb's or the other qbs suck and we gotta draft high again or trade picks to draft a qb then so be it.
RE: This has zero to do with Eli, it is about taking SB at 2  
arcarsenal : 6/20/2018 6:29 pm : link
In comment 13995489 NYSports1 said:
Quote:
When we had a chance to get a qb to take over after Eli leaves. This is all based on Eli playing big time for 4 or 5 more years which ELi has shown nothing in the last 4 years to show that 4 more years later he will get better as he gets older.

The issue is that people think that Kyle and Webb are going to be the franchise qb with zero merti and just yearning.

I hope one is and we do not spend the next 8 years looking for a qb....That is the issue.

But if Darnold, Rosen, or Allen turn into bust then this is all good. But I personally feel all 3 of those guys will have long careers as starters and be franchise guys.


Eli was pretty good as recently as 2015. That wasn't more than 4 years ago. I'm not sure where you're getting that threshold from or why it's 4 years.

Was he not much better in 2014 and 2015 than he was in 2013?
Things can turn around quickly in Pro- Football  
Alwaysblue22 : 6/22/2018 10:31 am : link
Except if you are the Cleveland Browns, teams that have bad years can improve quickly because they are rewarded with high draft picks in every Round of the draft. In addition, the gap in the NFL between the Super Bowl winner and the worst team is not nearly as large as the gap between the best and worst college teams. What is going on with the Browns cannot be logically explained. They should go undefeated based on the number of high draft picks they get every year.
The last time everyone was slamming Eli like this,  
Brown Recluse : 6/22/2018 11:23 am : link
it was in 2011 when he dared to put himself in the elite category of QB's. He went and shut everyone up by winning a Super Bowl.

He's going to have a big season in 2018. I dont know what the final record will be or whether the Giants will get into the playoffs but, barring injury, I can see Eli going nuts this year and I can't wait.
Eli can still Win Games  
Alwaysblue22 : 6/27/2018 5:47 pm : link
He has seen every type of defense alignment, and can make better reads. There is nothing thy can throw at him that he has not seen, The problem is with execution between the QB and the play makers.This is a carry over from Eli's days with Gilbride where the play makers could change their routes in mid stream and Eli developed an intuitive way of knowing what they were going to do. This system was JUNKED by Mac who put in place a more rigid system where each receiver runs a designed route that he can not change, and if he is not open the QB runs with it. This is more of the WCO that relies on timing and the ability of the QB to extend plays. I think Shurmur will us a combination of both systems, like most teams do, and hope that Eli can continue to get the ball out fast like he did in Mac's system since Eli is no George Rodgers or Carson Wietz who can extend plays until someone gets open.
The Future is unknown and does not exist until you reach it.  
Alwaysblue22 : 7/8/2018 9:09 am : link
This debate is a waste of air time. All we now know is that the Giants should be able to run the ball better with Barkley at RB and Hernandez at guard and that should translate into more wins. Since they won only THREE games last year that is not saying much. If they win FOUR this year they have "improved".

As a Giant fan for over 50 years what I have learned is you never know what you get from this team until they start to play real games. For some odd reason they are the most unpredictable team in the NFL. They can go 11-5 and lose in the first Round of the playoffs. They can go 9-7 and win the Super Bowl. They can start off 10-1 and fail to make the playoffs. So who the hell knows? That is why the games are played.
Back to the Corner