was always going to get bombed in this ballpark by this team. It was as predictable as the sun rising. He is not built to get out right handed power hitters in coors field.
Vargas in Colorado isnt likely a good matchup. Nice to see the offense is still going... really all I care about at this point. They announced Thor's finger is 100% healed so now its just building his arm back up. NICE.
and shot into outer space. Zero reason for either to be on this team. Keep Peterson up passed tomorrow and activate Drew Smith. Bye bye Beck and Robles.
Vargas in Colorado isnt likely a good matchup. Nice to see the offense is still going... really all I care about at this point. They announced Thor's finger is 100% healed so now its just building his arm back up. NICE.
Vargas versus MLB isn't a good matchip. ERA of 7.29 in last 25 starts.
Vargas in Colorado isnt likely a good matchup. Nice to see the offense is still going... really all I care about at this point. They announced Thor's finger is 100% healed so now its just building his arm back up. NICE.
Vargas versus MLB isn't a good matchip. ERA of 7.29 in last 25 starts.
Put it in perspective.
Literally. If he allows ZERO earned runs in his next 25 starts. He will lower it to about league average.
I saw a thread he started about a friend named "Mark" which I assumed was just his attempt at humor/venting his frustrations with the Mets.
Arc, if you read Mets threads anymore, is this a real thing?
This is the sports equivalent of leaving your wife after she's gone blind due to venom from a rattlesnake bite to move in with the hot neighbor across the street who just won the lottery.
I am sure arc is just fed up with the team. I can't speak for him but he likely reached apathy with the Mets.
However, this is actually something that is difficult to quantify but the Wilpons are losing customers or fans.
I find myself very nostalgic for old Mets baseball - late 80s. In my YouTube search this interview with Steinbrenner came up. I gave it a listen (not the full hour), it is odd how he considers the Mets a competitor and actually uses the Mets as a benchmark for success. YouTube: Mike & Mad Dog 1990 Interview w/George Steinbrenner - ( New Window )
I see I am a hot topic here - I figured this would come up sooner or later.
So, I will give you all the explanation/letter of resignation you're seeking.
Yes, I finally hit my breaking point. I wasn't kidding when I said that a few weeks ago. I stuck with this team through way more than one shitty season. I was one of the only people still posting on these threads late in seasons when the team would be completely out of contention and barely anyone else was even watching at all.
I rooted for the worst team money could buy. I rooted for "Generation K"
I stuck with them through the collapse in 07. I stuck with them through the collapse in 08. I stuck with them when Castillo dropped the pop up and through the disappointing 09 campaign. I stuck with them through the Madoff scandal. I was at opening day when Colin Cowgill was the starting CF and Jon Niese was the starter. I sat in the frigid cold with garbage blowing all over the field and the stands half empty. I stuck with them when Scott Hairston was their best power hitter. Through 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014... all disappointing, non-playoff years.
I stuck with them when they couldn't score a run to save their lives in the summer of 2015 before things finally turned around and they made their run.
I stuck with them through 2017 when the entire team got hurt and the team was out of contention by Independence Day.
This past offseason, I said a billion times that I was finally just fed up. The team-building approach continues to suck. There's no accountability. Sandy Alderson is somehow seemingly in no danger whatsoever of losing his job despite horrendous fund allocation and an astounding lack of creativity. The Mets continue to be one of the biggest jokes in this city. And here they are, in the midst of another lost season - still sending Jason Vargas out to the hill to throw batting practice every 5 days. Jay Bruce still has THREE home runs. It's June 20th.
I loved this team for a long time. I'm not a bandwagon jumper or an uninformed sports fan. The Rangers haven't won a single thing since I was 9. The Knicks have never won anything in my lifetime. I still root for both. I would never in a million years root for the Islanders or Nets.
Most of my family are Yankee fans. I never hated the Yankees or considered them an "enemy," rather the team I always wished the Mets could have kept up with - but they rarely ever could.
I will never root against the Mets or be the douchebag who revels in their misfortunes. I hope for all of you guys, they turn it around soon and fix this mess. All of the fans deserve better. A lot better. But the Mets finally lost me, and I am completely at peace with the decision I've made. I thought long and hard about it, and at the end of the day, I don't really care what anyone else's opinion of me is as a fan. Life is short, I love baseball, and I love how the Yankees have built their team and love what they're doing.
They have a lot of young kids there who are easy to root for and exciting to watch. It's what I was hoping was happening with the Mets when Harvey, Thor, Conforto, Matz, etc, etc were all making their way up. But it didn't quite go that way and this season was the straw that broke the camels back.
Call me a bandwagon fan, call me a traitor... whatever you want to call me is fine. I get it. It seems unfathomable and inexplicable, but I couldn't do this anymore. The incompetence and constant circus has been sapping my enjoyment of baseball and it's just not worth my frustration. I'm happier now and better off.
A lot of you guys are great fans and I've really enjoyed all of the conversations and arguments and everything over the years. But alas, I have moved on.
Not that it would matter to the tone deaf Wilpons and the Mets. But as long as the Wilpons and Sterling Equities turn a profit, they likely do not care all that much.
I don't know arc's marital status or if he has children but if arc had 2 kids. That is likely 2 more Mets fans that the Wilpons potentially lost. I am sure there are many examples of this.
Not that it would matter to the tone deaf Wilpons and the Mets. But as long as the Wilpons and Sterling Equities turn a profit, they likely do not care all that much.
I don't know arc's marital status or if he has children but if arc had 2 kids. That is likely 2 more Mets fans that the Wilpons potentially lost. I am sure there are many examples of this.
arc - I'll see you on the Rangers threads!
No kids for me! Well, not yet at least. :)
But of course, brother. Looking forward to hockey season! Draft is only a few days away. Really important one for us.
We all wanted them to do more than Swarzak/Ramos in the BP.
Nobody wanted Bruce back.
We all bitched about Reyes possibly being the starting 2B. Imagine if that happened.
The Vargas deal was more surprising than hated.
The Frazier deal was the only one that had near unanimous approval given the price - and that's the 1 move that has worked out.
And who knows how it ends, but the worst move of all may have been Callaway. Almost epically terrible offseason for Sandy.
The Mets tendered Ramos in the winter and reached a deal to pay him $9.225 million this season — a deal that has turned out to be richer than the market dictated. Thirty-two relievers received contracts of more than $1 million this offseason; Ramos makes more than all but three of them. His ERA is worse than all but three of them (though there are two others who have yet to pitch).
But that doesn’t excuse the bad process here. The Mets paid a prospect cost (and more than $2 million in 2017 salary during a non-contending season in which they accepted lesser prospect returns in other deals to save similar amounts of cash) in order to acquire a reliever who was bound to be overpaid, since the arbitration system inherently overvalues saves.
It doesn’t make sense to pay that much of a premium to limit contract length at a position where a long-term deal is three years. Of that pool of 32 relievers mentioned above, only four got three-year deals — three from the Rockies and Tony Watson, whose guaranteed money from the Giants is less than Ramos’ 2018 salary thanks to a creative contract structure.
Quote:
One of the moves that’s worked out even worse, to this point, is the signing of Vargas. The veteran was supposed to be a stabilizing presence toward the back of the New York rotation, there to provide unspectacular ballast if and when Matt Harvey, Steven Matz and Zack Wheeler began to list.
It’s not as if there were no warning signs. The Mets believed Vargas’ significant second-half fade last season to be an aberration; instead, it looks more like the norm for the 35-year-old. His ERA over his last 25 starts, since the beginning of last July, is 7.29.
Again, Alderson’s front office has to delegate what money it’s allowed to spend as efficiently as possible. Paying for a low-ceiling starter — and we can’t even talk about floors with pitchers this deep into their 30s — isn’t that.
Pretty much all of the Mets fans here have been through all of the same crap, and more for some of us. I go back to the 80s and the heartbreaks of losing the division to St. Louis, the ‘88 NLCS vs. LA, the crappy early to mid-90s teams. I’ve even written letters to the Mets and sent them unused tickets. But you stick though it.
Will you abandon the Giants if things go poorly in the next 10 years? And just because people don’t post on game threads every game of every season doesn’t mean they don’t measure up as a fan. Good luck over there, though.
Are they not just as much, if not more of a joke than the Mets?
You have scandal, incompetence, tuning out former greats, one of the worst owners in sports who has a penchant for calling his enemies "alcoholics".
The Mets have been to an NLCS and a World Series since the Knicks have done anything of note.
Maybe the only thing keeping you with the Knicks is that the other team in town happens to suck more? But like the Yankees, the Celtics are exciting, and building the right way and have tons of young talent. In theory, it would make a lot of sense for you to make a similar decision in the NBA.
couldn't do what Arc did, no knock, I just mentally can't switch teams HOWEVER... the NBA is different, always 1-2 moves away from being interesting. MLB you have 30 teams drafting 40 players every year, farm systems 25 man rosters, bad shape in baseball = bad shape for for foreseeable future. The Suns future suddenly looks bright tomorrow. That's the difference.
If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
I see I am a hot topic here - I figured this would come up sooner or later.
So, I will give you all the explanation/letter of resignation you're seeking.
Yes, I finally hit my breaking point.
I can certainly see that, not that you need to give us an explanation. I'm sure we all have a breaking point, well except maybe Z! Personally, I couldn't root for the Yankees. I'd probably just stop watching, since the Mets are pretty much the only baseball I watch. But to each his own.
If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
It's probably just my waining interest in the NBA - it's easier for me to just deal with the incompetence of the Knicks because I can watch the Rangers instead (or the NFL whenever games are on)
The Giants just went 3-13 - literally their worst season in my lifetime. The two runs they gave us in the Eli era were two of my best memories as a sports fan. I've been a Giants fan for as long as I have a memory. We could have another repeat of the 70's and I'm sure I'd still root for them.
The Giants are one of the greatest franchises in the world. There is a rich history and I'm far too proud of the things they have accomplished to ever turn my back on them.
I have an 85 year old Grandmother (my only remaining grandparent) whom I am very, very close with. She's a die hard Yankees fan and has been since the 40's. Her brother used to take her to games when she was a kid. He's terminally ill right now and she's on the verge of losing him and went to visit him in the hospital last week - he's not very responsive and his memories are mostly gone, but she told him about how I've been watching them and how we talk about the games every night now and he perked up and started recalling all of these memories from their childhood and they had a special moment together.
That meant something to me. For anyone else, I'm sure it doesn't mean shit. But seeing the enjoyment my Grandmother gets out of talking about the Yankees with me now, it makes it worth it. She's wanted me to root for them my entire life. I guess I finally caved.
Like I said - the snarky comments like the one above don't bother me. Everyone is free to call me names or say I'm taking the easy way out. All good. I'm a big boy and I can handle that. I made this decision for myself and no one else. I still have tons of love and respect for a lot of you guys even if you look at me differently now. :)
I see I am a hot topic here - I figured this would come up sooner or later.
So, I will give you all the explanation/letter of resignation you're seeking.
Yes, I finally hit my breaking point.
I can certainly see that, not that you need to give us an explanation. I'm sure we all have a breaking point, well except maybe Z! Personally, I couldn't root for the Yankees. I'd probably just stop watching, since the Mets are pretty much the only baseball I watch. But to each his own.
Good luck arc.
Totally understandable, and thank you. I appreciate it.
But to say you just have to ditch the Mets (and root for the 1st place Yankees no less) because you "hit your breaking point" but at the same time you are willing and able to be a Knicks fan in 2019? Doesn't add up.
If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
1984 - 1990 the Mets had an extended run of being good. It was derailed by Gooden's drug and injury issues, but it's really a travesty that team won just one world series.
It's partly why I hate Hershiser. and he looks like a dick - so I hate him for that too.
They averaged over 95 games for that 7 year stretch and were 1st or 2nd every year.
In today's format I think they win more than one WS.
If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
1984 - 1990 the Mets had an extended run of being good. It was derailed by Gooden's drug and injury issues, but it's really a travesty that team won just one world series.
It's partly why I hate Hershiser. and he looks like a dick - so I hate him for that too.
They averaged over 95 games for that 7 year stretch and were 1st or 2nd every year.
In today's format I think they win more than one WS.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
I'd say 1984-90 would qualify. 90+ wins 6 times in 7 seasons, two 100+ win seasons, one championship. True, only 2 postseasons but that was the nature of pre-wild card baseball. With a wild card, the Mets would have made the playoffs every year but 1989.
But to say you just have to ditch the Mets (and root for the 1st place Yankees no less) because you "hit your breaking point" but at the same time you are willing and able to be a Knicks fan in 2019? Doesn't add up.
They are different sports that are structured differently and I have different interest levels in each. I don't love the NBA nearly as much as I did when I was a kid. And all it takes is hitting big on one draft pick or something like Kawhi coming to NY (I know it's not happening) for the tides to turn.
If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
1984 - 1990 the Mets had an extended run of being good. It was derailed by Gooden's drug and injury issues, but it's really a travesty that team won just one world series.
It's partly why I hate Hershiser. and he looks like a dick - so I hate him for that too.
They averaged over 95 games for that 7 year stretch and were 1st or 2nd every year.
In today's format I think they win more than one WS.
Exactly. When they finished second behind St. Louis a few times and even the Cubs once or twice, the Mets had a top 2 or 3 record in the NL. And were sent home due to only the division winners making the postseason.
Nowadays Yankee fans call Francesa complaining that the wild card sucks as it’s just a one game playoff, but his point is be happy you’re in the postseason if you finish second in the division. Plenty of times during that 84-90 run the Mets were the 2nd or 3rd best team in the NL but went home after 162 games since they missed out on winning the division by a couple games.
It amazes me how both teams own their own networks ( the Yanks have sold 70%) Yes has no daily programming besides the MKS. Sny has daily programming like Daily News live, Sportnite and Baseball night in N.Y. All that I watch everyday. I don't watch Loud mouths. Yet, the run their teams so differently.
I'm 33 - so I have no actual recollection of the team that won the WS n 86 (or really most of the teams in the 80's)
So, for me, my Mets fandom was what I outlined above...
- The worst team money could buy
- Generation K
- Losing the 2000 WS
- Missing the postseason in 2001
- 26.5 games out of 1st place in 2002
- 34.5 games out of 1st in 2003
- 25 games out of 1st in 2004
- 83 wins in 2005 despite adding Pedro and Beltran
- An excellent 2006 that ended terribly in a year where the Mets should have won the World Series
- An epic collapse in 2007 (I sat at Shea Stadium and watched the final game of the season in person and saw Tom Glavine take a steaming fucking dump on the mound nice and close up)
- Another collapse in 2008 where I again, sat at Shea Stadium only to watch the Marlins dance on the field after knocking us out of the postseason for the 2nd year in a row.
- A 2009 played in a weird, green/drab, cavernous Citi Field where the Mets finished 23 games out of 1st.
- A 4th place finish in 2010
- 25 games out of 1st in 2011
- 24 games out of 1st in 2012
- 22 games out of 1st in 2013
- 17 games out of 1st in 2014
- An awesome WS run in 2015 that ended in disappointment - another year the Mets should have won the WS but didn't.
- Losing the play-in in 2016 and not getting into the postseason
- A completely non-competitive 2017, finishing 27 games out of 1st.
- And here we are again... 11 games out on June 20th.
So, please don't tell me that I bailed at the first sign of trouble. I've had about 3-4 truly enjoyable seasons as a fan of this team in all the years I've been watching. They made the postseason in consecutive seasons one time in their entire history. ONE TIME.
I sat through year after year of fucking garbage and disappointment. From the medical mis-diagnosis' to the Madoff scandal to Omar claiming Adam Rubin "was lobby" for a job with the team in the middle of a press conference, I've been through the ringer and back over and over again.
For some of the older guys who remember the 86 team, or are old enough to have been a Mets fan since the inception of the team, I understand the allegiance and bond you probably feel to the team.
I don't feel that bond anymore. I became a bigger fan of Jacob deGrom than the Mets this year. That's when I knew I was wasting my time.
There are many Mets fans who have been through everything you outlined above and more (like the day they traded Seaver, for example).
So patting yourself on the back for your time as a Mets fan while moving on to the first place Yankees falls on deaf ears.
That's nice. As I've said 10 times already, I couldn't give less of a shit what people like you think. You're an internet handle. Your opinion is literally irrelevant in anything I do or choose.
Dan, Z, pj, Metnut, Eric, and a few of the other guys that I've had tons of good baseball discussions (and sometimes arguments) with over the years are the ones I wish the best for because I think they're terrific and knowledgable fans.
Baseball is entertainment, and we are consumers. The Mets are basically running a scam where the Coupons are using the team to pay down their personal debt at the expense of their customers. Fuck them. In any other business, if the company you are investing resources in is actively looking to fuck you over, you'd jump ship, too. The Mets are breaking me as well, and while I can't just stop being a Mets fan and become a fan of another team, my passion and rooting interest in the team is definitely decreasing despite my love for baseball still being at an all time high.
Just wait until the team trades deGrom, who is having one of the best pitching seasons in team history, for a few prospects that may or may not be any good. This team is going to suck for the foreseeable future.
Baseball is entertainment, and we are consumers. The Mets are basically running a scam where the Coupons are using the team to pay down their personal debt at the expense of their customers. Fuck them. In any other business, if the company you are investing resources in is actively looking to fuck you over, you'd jump ship, too. The Mets are breaking me as well, and while I can't just stop being a Mets fan and become a fan of another team, my passion and rooting interest in the team is definitely decreasing despite my love for baseball still being at an all time high.
Just wait until the team trades deGrom, who is having one of the best pitching seasons in team history, for a few prospects that may or may not be any good. This team is going to suck for the foreseeable future.
You get it. Thank you. This sums it up exactly.
I don't think I am making an absurd choice here. It's just a personal decision. I wouldn't blame anyone else for doing something similar, nor would I try to govern who other people root for in sports.
Life is short. Everyone should do what makes them happy.
The owners do not care for the team's well being. Nyquist makes fair points. The owners are running a scam. The Mets are just their way of making a profit. I wish I had the heart to be indifferent. I love baseball but rooting for this team does make it less enjoyable only because there is no hope. Since the Mets won in 86, the Marlins were about 8 years away from their inaugural season, won a World Series, tore the team down and won another world series!
I asked this a few weeks earlier, what future sacrifice did someone make in Game 6 of 1986 that started this cursed franchise?
Sandy Alderson and the Wilpons have really done a number on Mets baseball. It's hard for me to understand how Alderson has a job.
As I get older I dont really hate other teams as much. 10 years ago, the Eagles winning a super bowl would've really driven me nuts, but it doesn't really bother me that much. I just want the Giants come back strong next year.
While that's resulted in my being "softer" on the Yankees than 10 years ago, I'm not sure I could ever switch sides. I get where Arc is coming from though, we all have limited time in life and spending a lot of it watching sports is a decision and if you aren't getting entertainment out of it you should reevaluate.
I do like what they're doing over there, though. Certainly looks like a successful rebuild. Albies is a hell of a player.
I really do just love and appreciate the sport, so I'm sure I'll always keep tabs on the Mets somewhat and be happy for you guys when they are back on track.
So many of my friends are Mets fans but very few of them are really on that same level as I am/was and a lot of you guys are - which is why I was always here getting my fill of baseball talk. Most of them don't know much about the minors or the younger players and don't really get that deep into it .
I guess it's easier keeping fandom on a more naive level where you kinda just go with that "get 'em next year!" mentality. Unfortunately, that's not for me.
I think a lot of it is also that there are so many young kids coming up for the Yankees now, so I feel like I can kind of grow into that and watch them blossom there. I wouldn't have been able to do this 10-15 years ago on those vet-heavy FA teams with guys like Clemens, Randy Johnson, Giambi, etc. That was the only time I really didn't like how the Yankees operating (even though they were well within their right to do so)
To me, there's nothing better than rooting for a team full of homegrown young kids. Severino, Torres, Andujar, Judge, Sanchez, Bird, German, Frazier, etc. are just all really exuberant kids who just look like they're having a great time and I enjoy it.
I had hoped that's where the Mets were going about 4-5 years ago... I thought the same thing would happen here, and I was totally fine riding it out and being patient until everyone arrived. But, as we know, it didn't go quite as planned.
And that happens. It's baseball. I think I just despise the Wilpons so much and other aspects of the team - it's definitely like investing in a service in many ways that you're just routinely disappointed in.
Either way, a lot of you guys are great fans and deserve better - and I really do hope things turn around sooner than later for your sakes.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
I'd say 1984-90 would qualify. 90+ wins 6 times in 7 seasons, two 100+ win seasons, one championship. True, only 2 postseasons but that was the nature of pre-wild card baseball. With a wild card, the Mets would have made the playoffs every year but 1989.
1984-1990 is 34 years ago. Different leadership, different everything. It's silly to suggest a team that was good 30+ years ago is going to maintain the same "trust". The Mets are pushing away an entire generation of fans. Sandy Alderson has been awful and the owners are awful too.
far from a Knicks apologist but they have an owner willing to spend unlimited money + play in a league where 2-3 top players make you a "good" team. There is no light at the end of the tunnel for the Mets. No real path to being good anytime soon. The Yankees and Cardinals aren't keeping on Sandy Alderson even WITH WS wins 33 games under .500 over the last 2 seasons. He's 70 years old, the farm system sucks and yet... according to Heyman the Wilpons are happy with the job Sandy is doing. Shows all you need to know.
I dislike the yankees too much to go there and i'd never care about another team as much as it's painful to be a Met fan, but with this ownership group withdrawing attachment is probably the only sane move. Whether that's just paying less attention to baseball in general (most likely) or adopting a random team idk.
Honestly, I think Sandy is a halfway decent GM who just had a terrible offseason. Like really really terrible. But the foundation of this team is 100% solid if the ownership invested properly and competent management took over. Thor, JDG, Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, Lugo, Gsellman, Matz, Wheeler an improving farm system with Alonso and 2 first round pitchers rising. That's a much better situation than where the franchise was in 2010/2011/2012.
also I should add while I don't blame him, he'll be missed Â
I never criticized his pessimism because with this franchise it is almost always warranted. I was slightly more optimistic about this season because I thought Cespedes would stay healthy and Harvey would bounce back, but obviously that was misguided optimism.
I dislike the yankees too much to go there and i'd never care about another team as much as it's painful to be a Met fan, but with this ownership group withdrawing attachment is probably the only sane move. Whether that's just paying less attention to baseball in general (most likely) or adopting a random team idk.
Honestly, I think Sandy is a halfway decent GM who just had a terrible offseason. Like really really terrible. But the foundation of this team is 100% solid if the ownership invested properly and competent management took over. Thor, JDG, Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, Lugo, Gsellman, Matz, Wheeler an improving farm system with Alonso and 2 first round pitchers rising. That's a much better situation than where the franchise was in 2010/2011/2012.
Again.. on what planet should the last 2 seasons = Sandy keeps his job? He had 4 losing seasons, 2 winning and now 2 more losing with a terrible farm system (bottom 10 in baseball). Where is the alent influx? JDG, Nimmo, Lugo, Gsellman, Matz, Wheeler have ALL been in the system 4 (or more) years. His ability to identify players to spend his money on = a major red flag in itself.
far from a Knicks apologist but they have an owner willing to spend unlimited money + play in a league where 2-3 top players make you a "good" team. There is no light at the end of the tunnel for the Mets. No real path to being good anytime soon. The Yankees and Cardinals aren't keeping on Sandy Alderson even WITH WS wins 33 games under .500 over the last 2 seasons. He's 70 years old, the farm system sucks and yet... according to Heyman the Wilpons are happy with the job Sandy is doing. Shows all you need to know.
Yup.
I think the Knicks are actively trying to win and be relevant again - but obviously they've been mismanaged. But the NBA is just so much different. In baseball, you don't have to wait for a star player from somewhere else to come to you.
If you invest in scouting international talent, make smart signings, and spend money, you can build a good team. Of course, this is way easier said than done - but one of the biggest tell's was a couple years ago when the owners basically said "you show up, and then we'll spend money"
Literally the exact opposite of the correct approach.
You want fans to show up? Spend money - and not on players who are a fucking net NEGATIVE to the team. Putting a good product on the field will put fans in the seats. It's simple. And yet, the Wilpons somehow don't understand that.
I used to be fine with an underperforming MLB team because I was so invested in the reports from the minors and was having just as much fun tracking those guys and how they were progressing.
Now the farm seems barren outside of a few interesting prospects. The team here sucks. Alderson is bewilderingly allowed to basically operate on his terms and decide when he wants to step aside, and the Wilpons aren't going anywhere.
It sucks. This team really has a great fan base but they are alienating those fans now more than ever.
maybe I'm unique for feeling this way but it's all about rings. Especially in baseball.
I don't mean this to be shit-stirring, but 8 and 9 year old kids today in little league don't think of the Yankees as the sun of the baseball world. Even if the future (and present) are exciting.
the Giants, Cubs, Indians, Royals and Astros all have more recent success. Even the Mets (appearing in, but obviously losing a WS more recently than either the Yankees or Red Sox or Cardinals).
IMO there is no allure to kids or new fans simply for "meaningful September baseball". It's win or you're a loser.
So yeah the Mets franchise has just a few bright spots, but I wouldn't trade a few bright spots for sustained winning but no bright spots or more distant bright spots.
and if those bright spots meant you go through dark periods so be it. I'd prefer it not, I'd prefer to win every year, but my goal is not a perennial 90 win team. My goal as a fan is World Series wins.
Milton Ramos and Eudor Garcia (traded for cash, and retired), Josh Prevost (26 and still toiling in A+), Max Wotell (traded as a throw-in, sucks), Dez Lindsay (looks like a bust so far), David Thompson (MAYBE a role player), Blake Tiberi (didn't make the top...51 prospects in the SAL league yesterday... yes 51), Michael Paez (.660 OPS in A+ at 23), Colby Woodmansee... retired, Quinn Brodey (sucking in.. the SAL at 23). They have done a piss poor job in every facet of the game. Where are the IFA academy finds they used to find? Familia, Mejia, Robles ?
I have long been a Sandy supporter but he is losing me. Â
The Mets have been good for approximately five months of his entire seven year tenure, the last three months of 2015 and the last two months of 2016. The team is progressively getting worse since the 2015 peak, and we are now looking at two consecutive losing seasons with a bad farm system and no future in sight.
There are reports about how he isn't given a set offseason budget to work with and that every move must be either approved or disapproved by ownership, so that he doesn't really have the ability to act on a structured offseason plan. Even if that is true, there is no excuse for why the farm system is such shit. And a big part of the GM's job is to sell the owners on why your plan makes sense. If you can't convince your moronic owners to stop shooting the franchise in the foot with their meddling, maybe it's time for a new voice.
I dislike the yankees too much to go there and i'd never care about another team as much as it's painful to be a Met fan, but with this ownership group withdrawing attachment is probably the only sane move. Whether that's just paying less attention to baseball in general (most likely) or adopting a random team idk.
Honestly, I think Sandy is a halfway decent GM who just had a terrible offseason. Like really really terrible. But the foundation of this team is 100% solid if the ownership invested properly and competent management took over. Thor, JDG, Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, Lugo, Gsellman, Matz, Wheeler an improving farm system with Alonso and 2 first round pitchers rising. That's a much better situation than where the franchise was in 2010/2011/2012.
Again.. on what planet should the last 2 seasons = Sandy keeps his job? He had 4 losing seasons, 2 winning and now 2 more losing with a terrible farm system (bottom 10 in baseball). Where is the alent influx? JDG, Nimmo, Lugo, Gsellman, Matz, Wheeler have ALL been in the system 4 (or more) years. His ability to identify players to spend his money on = a major red flag in itself.
And again I didn't say he should keep his job - in fact I literally suggested "competent management take over". "Halfway decent GM" isn't a glowing endorsement, nor a statement that he shouldn't be replaced.
The only supportive thing I'd say in his favor is that he may be the best we will ever get from the Wilpons so we should be careful what we wish for. It can get a lot worse and I know that because it has been a lot worse.
In the grand scheme of things, if you gave me a 15 year sample size and said I could have 12 terrible seasons, 2 "okay" seasons, and one World Series Championship during that span
OR
I could have 10 or more 90+ win seasons, a couple of WS appearances (both losses), and only 2-3 down years, I would absolutely take the former.
That said, it's a retrospective argument where you already have the result. So, of course anyone would probably take the one trophy and deal with the other crap.
I think the point of sustainable competitiveness and why it is so important is that you are constantly giving yourself a shot. If you keep getting into the postseason, odds are you're going to make a run one of those years.
If you're a team that only gets in there once every decade, then you're SOL if you don't win that year. And that's basically what we've seen with the Mets. They could, and arguably should have capitalized in 2006 or 2015 and won the WS in one of those years - which would have changed the entire narrative about this team. But they didn't. And now, it looks like they're quite a ways from ever getting back there. They're moving in the wrong direction.
RE: I have long been a Sandy supporter but he is losing me. Â
The Mets have been good for approximately five months of his entire seven year tenure, the last three months of 2015 and the last two months of 2016. The team is progressively getting worse since the 2015 peak, and we are now looking at two consecutive losing seasons with a bad farm system and no future in sight.
There are reports about how he isn't given a set offseason budget to work with and that every move must be either approved or disapproved by ownership, so that he doesn't really have the ability to act on a structured offseason plan. Even if that is true, there is no excuse for why the farm system is such shit. And a big part of the GM's job is to sell the owners on why your plan makes sense. If you can't convince your moronic owners to stop shooting the franchise in the foot with their meddling, maybe it's time for a new voice.
Sandy has also lost me as a full fledged supporter because he's showed no vision building on the roster since 2015. He hitched his wagon to having lights out starting pitching when starting pitchers are the post injury prone players in all of sports. He simply hasn't had a good plan and the resources he has been given in FA have been wasted.
In terms of the farm system, there are stats that back up the Mets org having spent in the bottom 1/3 of all baseball in spending, even in the new draft/IFA systems. In the old system they were even further behind. Their size of their scouting staff and analytics departments in all facets have been called into question by reporters. My point there is simply that it's unlikely any GM will be able to change the results dramatically without the resources necessary. And most good candidates won't even want to take a chance on a unstable situation like this one. That's why we are likely going to get Omar act 3.
in 2014 coming off a 79 win season, no one thought the Mets were serious World Series contenders in 2015?
Yet they were and really should have won.
When you have a team with Thor and deGrom in their primes, and a few bats that have the potential to be better than what they've shown it's not hard to envision a scenario where they turn things around quickly.
I agree with others, Sandy is where people lose confidence. Even with the 2015 success he doesn't instill confidence that he's the guy to re-right the ship.
Baseball is entertainment, and we are consumers. The Mets are basically running a scam where the Coupons are using the team to pay down their personal debt at the expense of their customers. Fuck them. In any other business, if the company you are investing resources in is actively looking to fuck you over, you'd jump ship, too. The Mets are breaking me as well, and while I can't just stop being a Mets fan and become a fan of another team, my passion and rooting interest in the team is definitely decreasing despite my love for baseball still being at an all time high.
Just wait until the team trades deGrom, who is having one of the best pitching seasons in team history, for a few prospects that may or may not be any good. This team is going to suck for the foreseeable future.
You get it. Thank you. This sums it up exactly.
I don't think I am making an absurd choice here. It's just a personal decision. I wouldn't blame anyone else for doing something similar, nor would I try to govern who other people root for in sports.
Life is short. Everyone should do what makes them happy.
No blame here either. Like you, Im 39 and has been following since 1990. But I will be switching for the sake of my young children.
Any human being on who or what team they should root for but you put a lot of blood sweat and tears into this team. Enjoy the Yankees run but I do hope if the Mets do turn things around eventually we see you back. No reason why you couldn’t root for 2 teams. I’ll miss seeing you in our threads.
Any human being on who or what team they should root for but you put a lot of blood sweat and tears into this team. Enjoy the Yankees run but I do hope if the Mets do turn things around eventually we see you back. No reason why you couldn’t root for 2 teams. I’ll miss seeing you in our threads.
Appreciate it, bud. We haven't always agreed on everything, but I've sure as hell respected your unbridled optimism and way of seeing things through when they're darkest. You're as loyal as they come.
are you going to embrace Yankees history or just start from June 20 with a clean slate?
I ask b/c a colleague of mine was a life long Giants fan (before I knew him), grew up in NY and then went to BC for college, stayed in MA and became a Pats fan. I met him when he was a Pats fan and we worked together starting 2005 and he let it slip he used to be a Giants fan.
he claims his metamorphosis happened with Parcells leaving, but whatever - I never judged him - I judged the bandwagoner Pats fans who just heard about football in 2001, but not him.
I'm just wondering will you hate the Red Sox? Will you consider Mets fans inferior b/c they root for a different team in the same city (and to be fair all Yankees fans don't do this, but some do), will you start listening to and watching Yankees games religiously?
not being a dick, just wondering how much you've thought about this and if it's going to be like starting from scratch or maybe you'll get a Derek Jeter fat head for your living room and go to Yankees games with 5 fake aluminum foil rings on your fingers like some Yankees fans used to do (in the Jeter era) at Fenway.
of course. I hate the Red Sox more than I hate the Mets division rivals because I live in this area, but just trying to see how Arc's hate will manifest
are you going to embrace Yankees history or just start from June 20 with a clean slate?
I ask b/c a colleague of mine was a life long Giants fan (before I knew him), grew up in NY and then went to BC for college, stayed in MA and became a Pats fan. I met him when he was a Pats fan and we worked together starting 2005 and he let it slip he used to be a Giants fan.
he claims his metamorphosis happened with Parcells leaving, but whatever - I never judged him - I judged the bandwagoner Pats fans who just heard about football in 2001, but not him.
I'm just wondering will you hate the Red Sox? Will you consider Mets fans inferior b/c they root for a different team in the same city (and to be fair all Yankees fans don't do this, but some do), will you start listening to and watching Yankees games religiously?
not being a dick, just wondering how much you've thought about this and if it's going to be like starting from scratch or maybe you'll get a Derek Jeter fat head for your living room and go to Yankees games with 5 fake aluminum foil rings on your fingers like some Yankees fans used to do (in the Jeter era) at Fenway.
A good question!
And really, a clean slate. I can't act like I was a huge Derek Jeter fan if I wasn't rooting for his team when he was playing. I can, however, appreciate Jeter the way I always have (even as a Mets fan) and what he did both on the field and off (especially all of the gorgeous women he bagged).
The Red Sox hatred will come over time - but it won't be hard because I've hated the Celtics and Bruins for so long and it's mostly the same fans. Ironically, I never really hated the Patriots. I kind of liked the Bledsoe/Curtis Martin teams in the 90's (I didn't root for them, I just didn't hate them - I did pull for them in the SB against GB)
Because of all the young kids the Yankees have coming up now, I feel like I can embrace those guys since they have no long-term history there or anywhere else. I don't have to act like I've been a big Miguel Andujar fan my entire life because this is his rookie season. Same with Torres. And guys like Judge and Severino have only been up a short couple years now, so it's sort of the same thing there.
I have always respected the Yankees as a franchise and looked at them as the model baseball franchise. But I look at their history the same way I would have looked at the Mets' history before I was actually a fan of theirs. I was only 2 years old in 1986. I didn't watch any of those games, I don't remember any of those games. I know those games from watching reruns and highlights years and years later.
I actually watched more of the Yankees than the Mets when I was younger - but it was the Mattingly years. I was watching guys like Sam Militelo, Jimmy Key, etc. Funny enough, if I had waited just a couple more years, I probably never would have been a Mets fan to begin with. But I obviously was and don't, nor will I ever deny that part of my existence. Somewhere in the early 90's I decided I liked the Mets too and eventually just became a full-fledged Mets fan. (D'oh!)
As for the way I view Mets fans - I assuredly will not be a douchebag or act suddenly superior. I'm not on the teams, I don't play. I'm not any better than anyone else because of the team I root for. I always thought that was dumb.
But in short, I'll never be that guy flashing all the rings at games or acting like I've been a fan since 1920.
At the same time, I think you can embrace and appreciate the history. Even all of the greats who played well before my time. That really doesn't change. I obviously wasn't alive to watch Ruth, DiMaggio, Gehrig, Mantle, etc. But as a baseball fan, of course I've always marveled at what they did when they played - even if I couldn't watch it myself.
With the young talent the Braves and Yankees have accumulated I think we will eventually see another Braves Yankees World series in the near future. Hopefully your hatred for Atlanta will continue due to the Braves coming out on top :)
I've lurked for a long time (Pete's Corner), occasionally post, but don't have time to invest in the research and back and forth required to be good a BBI poster. But Arc has hit chord. I've been a Mets fan going back probably to '77 '78 when Steinbrenner was just too much and Billy Martin was being fired every other day.
I thought about going back to my roots, I was born in Dayton and was a Big Red Machine fan, attending many games at Crosley Field when guys like Concepcion, Morgan, Perez, Rose were just getting started. Well the family moved to CT and those roots were left behind. I really can't be a Reds fan, mostly cuz they suck too (and I hate red), but I don't feel any connection.
I then loved the old Yankees team of Munson, Chambliss, Roy White, Stick, Nettles, but then George ruined that, so I went to the Mets.
Now, Much like Arc, I am done with the Mets, outside of deGrom, Conforto, Thor, Nimmo maybe, I don't really like any of the Mets, and hate the front office and especially the owners.
Although I absolutely understand and agree with the enthusiasm the Yankee fans show for these young, homegrown players, having fun playing a kids game, I can't root for them...and Boston is out of the question, I barely like going to Boston let alone root for them (love the City, hate the people).
So I will not watch them on TV anymore or go to the stadium, which bums me out, as my wife and I did this often and watched most nights.
I will patiently wait for the Rangers and Knicks to disappoint me again too...But not the GMen, I'm optimistic with them.
PS. Rosario sucks too, a top prospect...BS, he is sooo underperforming...just another reason not to watch.
With the young talent the Braves and Yankees have accumulated I think we will eventually see another Braves Yankees World series in the near future. Hopefully your hatred for Atlanta will continue due to the Braves coming out on top :)
I could see it! Won't be hard for me to remember my long-term dislike of the Bravos :)
I'm a little torn on the Nationals because I still can't stand them and would absolutely love to see another DS exit for them, BUT... I would also love to see the Yanks crush them in a World Series. Which would bring their fans just as much anguish.
With the Nationals acquisition of Herrera they will likely go on a run now that they are finally healthy. They already had the #1 ranked bullpen in the NL I believe and now they will only get better. They will also add more pieces by the deadline if they need to as they do have some young prospects to trade. Z and I were wrong about the Nationals bullpen as we both said that they were overrated going into the season and I thought that could be the reason they struggle this year. I would love nothing more than to see them miss the playoffs but I think they will win the NL East and they could make the WS If Sherzer, Strasburg, and Gio stay healthy.
It's been fun reading your comments on Mets threads over the years. Never been active on Mets threads but always been a lurker and read ever Mets thread going back to when I first joined BBI in 2000 during the subway series.
Mets ownership broke me this season and I posted this a week ago...
Quote:
Thank You Mets!!!
NYG27 : 6/14/2018 4:05 pm : link : reply
Thank you for the 1986 season - As a 10 year old, it's one of my fondest memories watching that team win the World Series with my father.
Thank you for the 1988 season - I was a huge David Cone fan and this was perhaps my favorite season of following the Mets from game 1 to game 162. Too bad it ended in heartbreak against a team from destiny with the way Orel was pitching and how hot Gibson got.
Thank you for the 2000 season - A lot of fun that season as both NY teams captured the spirit of the city and first Subway Series in almost 50 years.
Thank you for the 2015 season - Man it was such a fun season to follow that team. Loved seeing the pitching staff healthy and dominating teams toward the end of the season. Plus sweeping the Cubs was great.
There were several other teams in between that some made the playoffs, many others that didn't. Through it all I just loved following this team, win or lose, for over 30 years.
Although I can not support this ownership group anymore. I will not cheer for another baseball team and will not follow the sport at all. If for some reason this ownership sells the team, I'll be more than happy to keep supporting this team I love.
Until then, this ownership group won't get anything else from me as a fan. No more attending games (used to watch 20+ home and away games a year). No more buying team merchandise. No more of my fan support.
Haven't watched any games since but do still like to read the Mets threads. Some habits are hard to break! LOL
I used that line on my friend - he caught me in a Yankees hat last weekend and was like "what the fuck is this?!"
He's probably my best bud, and I've been close with his family since we were kids. He's a Mets fan, but his father is a Yankees fan - and he was like "please do not let my father see this or find out about it. He'll start treating you like his son instead of me. Haha.
With the Nationals acquisition of Herrera they will likely go on a run now that they are finally healthy. They already had the #1 ranked bullpen in the NL I believe and now they will only get better. They will also add more pieces by the deadline if they need to as they do have some young prospects to trade. Z and I were wrong about the Nationals bullpen as we both said that they were overrated going into the season and I thought that could be the reason they struggle this year. I would love nothing more than to see them miss the playoffs but I think they will win the NL East and they could make the WS If Sherzer, Strasburg, and Gio stay healthy.
Yup - Kelvin was a big get for them. He's been fantastic this year. That's why I keep saying even if Betances has big trade value right now, NYY shouldn't (and won't) deal him because of how important the BP's start to become down the stretch and into October. It's the same reason why going into this season, I was annoyed that Swarzak was the only guy the Mets really added to their pen. I have always disliked Ramos, so that didn't move the needle for me at all.
WSH has pretty much everything they need now. But it'll also depend on whether or not Strasburg can stay healthy. The kid who is pitching in his place right now (Fedde) is one of (if not their best) pitching prospects I believe, but he doesn't look totally ready yet.
Scherzer is just an animal though. Hard to believe there's anyone in the NL better than deGrom right now - but he is.
It's been fun reading your comments on Mets threads over the years. Never been active on Mets threads but always been a lurker and read ever Mets thread going back to when I first joined BBI in 2000 during the subway series.
Mets ownership broke me this season and I posted this a week ago...
Quote:
Thank You Mets!!!
NYG27 : 6/14/2018 4:05 pm : link : reply
Thank you for the 1986 season - As a 10 year old, it's one of my fondest memories watching that team win the World Series with my father.
Thank you for the 1988 season - I was a huge David Cone fan and this was perhaps my favorite season of following the Mets from game 1 to game 162. Too bad it ended in heartbreak against a team from destiny with the way Orel was pitching and how hot Gibson got.
Thank you for the 2000 season - A lot of fun that season as both NY teams captured the spirit of the city and first Subway Series in almost 50 years.
Thank you for the 2015 season - Man it was such a fun season to follow that team. Loved seeing the pitching staff healthy and dominating teams toward the end of the season. Plus sweeping the Cubs was great.
There were several other teams in between that some made the playoffs, many others that didn't. Through it all I just loved following this team, win or lose, for over 30 years.
Although I can not support this ownership group anymore. I will not cheer for another baseball team and will not follow the sport at all. If for some reason this ownership sells the team, I'll be more than happy to keep supporting this team I love.
Until then, this ownership group won't get anything else from me as a fan. No more attending games (used to watch 20+ home and away games a year). No more buying team merchandise. No more of my fan support.
Haven't watched any games since but do still like to read the Mets threads. Some habits are hard to break! LOL
Thank you!
And I sure as hell don't blame you.
I think most Mets fans look at the Yanks differently than I always have, so it was easier for me to do this. But I absolutely understand why most who don't want to watch the Mets anymore won't root for the Yanks either.
It's just what I wanted personally. But everyone can, and should do what's in their own best interest. No team is worth getting so frustrated over. So, whether the solution is to root for someone else or just stop watching altogether, there's really nothing wrong with that in my book. Sports are personal to everyone and we all have our own way of being fans. I can only control my own fandom. It's not my place to try and control anyone else's.
It's an interesting topic for sure, which is probably why many people are commenting on it.
It's not every day that a guy who was lauding one franchise in one city as recently as a month and a half ago (like you were when the Mets were 11-1) to all of a sudden drop that franchise cold turkey and announce (in as weird a way as you did) that you are all of a sudden ALL IN on the better franchise in that very same city that also just happens to be in 1st place with young talent everywhere.
Before you say anything about anyone trying to "govern" you or whatever, that's not so. Enjoy the Yankees. Just saying it's not every day you hear something like this.
Sort of reminds me of Billy Zane's character in the Titanic hopping in that lifeboat with the women and children.
Hopefully you stick with us on NYG and don't become an Eagles fan due to their recent success. Who knows, you may be tempted before too long!
I think you missed the point of why he was fed up with the Mets. He won't abandon the Giants if/when they begin to struggle and the reason is simple. The ownership group is made up of good people who are dedicated to winning. The Mara's and Tisch's care more about winning than making money. The Giants are always willing to spend to the cap to put the best team on the field.
Besides, anyone with a gripe about the Wilpons should be more pissed at Selig/Manfred than the Wilpons themselves. MLB has kept them in charge and forced Alderson on them to count beans.
LOL, I wouldn't root for an out of state team ever. I live in New York, I have lived in New York my entire life. Especially not a fucking Philly team. No chance in hell. Thinking about rooting for the Eagles makes my skin crawl.
I think it'd be different if I was suddenly a Nationals fan or something - that wouldn't make any sense. No family ties, I don't live in DC, direct rival of the Mets, etc.
I've really just never hated the Yankees at all. And I think most people here can probably vouch for that - I've never been that guy when the teams play that was so "FUCK THE YANKEES!!!" or any of that. If anything, I've always just said I had wished the Mets were run more like they are.
At some point, I had to ask myself why I keep hoping for the Mets to be like the Yankees instead of just rooting for the Yankees. They're right in my backyard like the Mets are. They're a team from my home state, the state I live in now, and a team most of my family roots for.
Sure, it's unconventional, it's weird - it's something I'm sure no one here ever expected me to do. But sometimes I like to break the rules.
Trust me when I say I gave this a lot of thought. I did not decide this on a whim one night and act on impulse.
Like I've said - I can understand all sides of the responses I've gotten here. Some of you guys understand it and don't blame me, others can't figure out how I could do this, etc. And that's all good! It's not something you come across every day.
It's the only time I've ever done this in my life and the only time I ever will.
Even if the Giants never win another Super Bowl for the rest of my life, the two we got with Eli are two of my absolute best memories just just as a sports fan, but as a human being. I will never forget that for as long as I live and the Giants will always be truly special to me for that reason. I fucking hate when we suck, but no matter how bad things got last year, there was never a single second where I considered not rooting for the Giants anymore. And really, there never will be. I'm as confident in that as anything.
Of the 4 sports I watch and follow, the Giants are, and have always been at the top for me. I have been living and dying with that team for literally as long as I have a memory.
The Rangers are kind of the same thing. I think my Mets fandom was always on a sort of shaky foundation even though I was as invested in them as anyone over the years. Enough of these hits and frustrations eventually just knocked it all down. I think I had one foot out the door going into this season because I was so annoyed with how Alderson handled it.
Then, the 11-1 start happened and you're right - I was fucking elated. And I thought "hey, maybe I was wrong about this whole thing..." but when push came to shove, I wasn't. And I quickly realized this team was exactly what I thought they were (doing my best Dennis Green voice right now) and after I sat through 5 hours and 15 or 16 innings (whatever it was) of the Mets wasting another deGrom gem and striking out like 32 times against the Cubs, I finally just lost it and the whole thing came crashing down for me. That's when I decided I was done.
It will be an interesting journey for sure. Something I never thought I'd do. But here I am. And I truly am at peace with it. I don't regret it, I don't have remorse or think maybe I jumped the gun. I really don't. And I know that's SO easy to say when the Yankees are playing like this and the Mets are playing, well.... like this,
But I really like all the young kids there, and I feel that New York pride and know at the end of the day, I made the right decision for me.
And a Mets fan. Been reading the Mets threads for years, get some great information from you guys. Congrats Arc, fuck this franchise with the Coupons and Sandy in charge. Every now and then they’ll strike luck, and have a good year. However they’ll never be a constant contender with this current leadership. I can’t switch teams, but I just stop watching.
Any chance we can start a thread like this every game day? Â
lost 8 in a row at home or something similarly awful like that until the Mets came into town.
If you watch the major league team this year, and read Dan's minor league threads, how can you support this front office? Fan outrage (e.g., billboards) IMO played at least a small part in putting pressure to get rid of Reese and Garth Snow.
I'd happily contribute money to put up a huge anti-Alderson billboard near Citi Field. My worry is that the Wilpons would just hire another retread or crony rather than invest in a younger/savvier progressive front office.
Quote:
Haha. Don't worry, things were so bad with me that they can't possibly be worse without me.
Have to say, there's something a bit unsettling about reading the yankees thread and seeing you in 110%. Can't say I'm going to join you, but must be nice to be able to just flick a switch like that.
Meanwhile, for some stupid reason I'm staying up late watching these losers try (and awfully failing) to get to 6 games below .500. WTF
Quote:
Haha. Don't worry, things were so bad with me that they can't possibly be worse without me.
Have to say, there's something a bit unsettling about reading the yankees thread and seeing you in 110%. Can't say I'm going to join you, but must be nice to be able to just flick a switch like that.
Meanwhile, for some stupid reason I'm staying up late watching these losers try (and awfully failing) to get to 6 games below .500. WTF
It'll take a little time before I feel exactly the same way I'm sure but it's happening faster than I thought it would.
They're still not used to me over there.. it's a very different landscape. But they'll grow to love and accept me like you guys did. :P
Football has been my only reprieve for a long time between the Giants and the Tide.
The Rangers haven't hoisted Lord Stanley's Cup since I was 9, the Knicks have never won in my lifetime and, well.. the baseball thing. Hopefully that changes this year. :)
Quote:
Haha. Don't worry, things were so bad with me that they can't possibly be worse without me.
Have to say, there's something a bit unsettling about reading the yankees thread and seeing you in 110%. Can't say I'm going to join you, but must be nice to be able to just flick a switch like that.
Meanwhile, for some stupid reason I'm staying up late watching these losers try (and awfully failing) to get to 6 games below .500. WTF
It'll take a little time before I feel exactly the same way I'm sure but it's happening faster than I thought it would.
They're still not used to me over there.. it's a very different landscape. But they'll grow to love and accept me like you guys did. :P
Sports and fandom can be weird.
There's not supposed to be any Yankees fans on Mets threads.
“He is starting to feel comfortable, like he belongs“
I would be curious to see if he gives up 20 if he stayed in. I really would not be that shocked.
Mets paying Vargas/Ramos $15.225 million this year. They have combined for 57.1 IP, 50 ER (7.85 ERA)
Vargas versus MLB isn't a good matchip. ERA of 7.29 in last 25 starts.
That's crazy, the Mets lost a great fan.
Mets paying Vargas/Ramos $15.225 million this year. They have combined for 57.1 IP, 50 ER (7.85 ERA)
Bad decision after bad decision from this GM
Quote:
Vargas in Colorado isnt likely a good matchup. Nice to see the offense is still going... really all I care about at this point. They announced Thor's finger is 100% healed so now its just building his arm back up. NICE.
Vargas versus MLB isn't a good matchip. ERA of 7.29 in last 25 starts.
Put it in perspective.
Literally. If he allows ZERO earned runs in his next 25 starts. He will lower it to about league average.
Arc, if you read Mets threads anymore, is this a real thing?
This is the sports equivalent of leaving your wife after she's gone blind due to venom from a rattlesnake bite to move in with the hot neighbor across the street who just won the lottery.
However, this is actually something that is difficult to quantify but the Wilpons are losing customers or fans.
I find myself very nostalgic for old Mets baseball - late 80s. In my YouTube search this interview with Steinbrenner came up. I gave it a listen (not the full hour), it is odd how he considers the Mets a competitor and actually uses the Mets as a benchmark for success.
YouTube: Mike & Mad Dog 1990 Interview w/George Steinbrenner - ( New Window )
So, I will give you all the explanation/letter of resignation you're seeking.
Yes, I finally hit my breaking point. I wasn't kidding when I said that a few weeks ago. I stuck with this team through way more than one shitty season. I was one of the only people still posting on these threads late in seasons when the team would be completely out of contention and barely anyone else was even watching at all.
I rooted for the worst team money could buy. I rooted for "Generation K"
I stuck with them through the collapse in 07. I stuck with them through the collapse in 08. I stuck with them when Castillo dropped the pop up and through the disappointing 09 campaign. I stuck with them through the Madoff scandal. I was at opening day when Colin Cowgill was the starting CF and Jon Niese was the starter. I sat in the frigid cold with garbage blowing all over the field and the stands half empty. I stuck with them when Scott Hairston was their best power hitter. Through 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014... all disappointing, non-playoff years.
I stuck with them when they couldn't score a run to save their lives in the summer of 2015 before things finally turned around and they made their run.
I stuck with them through 2017 when the entire team got hurt and the team was out of contention by Independence Day.
This past offseason, I said a billion times that I was finally just fed up. The team-building approach continues to suck. There's no accountability. Sandy Alderson is somehow seemingly in no danger whatsoever of losing his job despite horrendous fund allocation and an astounding lack of creativity. The Mets continue to be one of the biggest jokes in this city. And here they are, in the midst of another lost season - still sending Jason Vargas out to the hill to throw batting practice every 5 days. Jay Bruce still has THREE home runs. It's June 20th.
I loved this team for a long time. I'm not a bandwagon jumper or an uninformed sports fan. The Rangers haven't won a single thing since I was 9. The Knicks have never won anything in my lifetime. I still root for both. I would never in a million years root for the Islanders or Nets.
Most of my family are Yankee fans. I never hated the Yankees or considered them an "enemy," rather the team I always wished the Mets could have kept up with - but they rarely ever could.
I will never root against the Mets or be the douchebag who revels in their misfortunes. I hope for all of you guys, they turn it around soon and fix this mess. All of the fans deserve better. A lot better. But the Mets finally lost me, and I am completely at peace with the decision I've made. I thought long and hard about it, and at the end of the day, I don't really care what anyone else's opinion of me is as a fan. Life is short, I love baseball, and I love how the Yankees have built their team and love what they're doing.
They have a lot of young kids there who are easy to root for and exciting to watch. It's what I was hoping was happening with the Mets when Harvey, Thor, Conforto, Matz, etc, etc were all making their way up. But it didn't quite go that way and this season was the straw that broke the camels back.
Call me a bandwagon fan, call me a traitor... whatever you want to call me is fine. I get it. It seems unfathomable and inexplicable, but I couldn't do this anymore. The incompetence and constant circus has been sapping my enjoyment of baseball and it's just not worth my frustration. I'm happier now and better off.
A lot of you guys are great fans and I've really enjoyed all of the conversations and arguments and everything over the years. But alas, I have moved on.
Much love.
I don't know arc's marital status or if he has children but if arc had 2 kids. That is likely 2 more Mets fans that the Wilpons potentially lost. I am sure there are many examples of this.
arc - I'll see you on the Rangers threads!
I don't know arc's marital status or if he has children but if arc had 2 kids. That is likely 2 more Mets fans that the Wilpons potentially lost. I am sure there are many examples of this.
arc - I'll see you on the Rangers threads!
No kids for me! Well, not yet at least. :)
But of course, brother. Looking forward to hockey season! Draft is only a few days away. Really important one for us.
AJ Ramos $9.25M
Signed:
Jason Vargas 2/$16M
A Swarzak 2/$14M
Jay Bruce 3/$39M
Todd Frazier 2/$17M
Jose Reyes 1/$2M
Harvey 0.0 fWAR
Ramos -0.2
Vargas -0.5
Swarzak -0.1
Bruce -0.3
Frazier 0.8
Reyes -0.8
= NEGATIVE 1.1 fWAR... Sandy Alderson managed to spend 102.85 million dollars this off-season and come up in the red... UNBELIEVABLE.
Nobody wanted Bruce back.
We all bitched about Reyes possibly being the starting 2B. Imagine if that happened.
The Vargas deal was more surprising than hated.
The Frazier deal was the only one that had near unanimous approval given the price - and that's the 1 move that has worked out.
And who knows how it ends, but the worst move of all may have been Callaway. Almost epically terrible offseason for Sandy.
But that doesn’t excuse the bad process here. The Mets paid a prospect cost (and more than $2 million in 2017 salary during a non-contending season in which they accepted lesser prospect returns in other deals to save similar amounts of cash) in order to acquire a reliever who was bound to be overpaid, since the arbitration system inherently overvalues saves.
It doesn’t make sense to pay that much of a premium to limit contract length at a position where a long-term deal is three years. Of that pool of 32 relievers mentioned above, only four got three-year deals — three from the Rockies and Tony Watson, whose guaranteed money from the Giants is less than Ramos’ 2018 salary thanks to a creative contract structure.
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One of the moves that’s worked out even worse, to this point, is the signing of Vargas. The veteran was supposed to be a stabilizing presence toward the back of the New York rotation, there to provide unspectacular ballast if and when Matt Harvey, Steven Matz and Zack Wheeler began to list.
It’s not as if there were no warning signs. The Mets believed Vargas’ significant second-half fade last season to be an aberration; instead, it looks more like the norm for the 35-year-old. His ERA over his last 25 starts, since the beginning of last July, is 7.29.
Again, Alderson’s front office has to delegate what money it’s allowed to spend as efficiently as possible. Paying for a low-ceiling starter — and we can’t even talk about floors with pitchers this deep into their 30s — isn’t that.
Pretty much all of the Mets fans here have been through all of the same crap, and more for some of us. I go back to the 80s and the heartbreaks of losing the division to St. Louis, the ‘88 NLCS vs. LA, the crappy early to mid-90s teams. I’ve even written letters to the Mets and sent them unused tickets. But you stick though it.
Will you abandon the Giants if things go poorly in the next 10 years? And just because people don’t post on game threads every game of every season doesn’t mean they don’t measure up as a fan. Good luck over there, though.
Are they not just as much, if not more of a joke than the Mets?
You have scandal, incompetence, tuning out former greats, one of the worst owners in sports who has a penchant for calling his enemies "alcoholics".
The Mets have been to an NLCS and a World Series since the Knicks have done anything of note.
Maybe the only thing keeping you with the Knicks is that the other team in town happens to suck more? But like the Yankees, the Celtics are exciting, and building the right way and have tons of young talent. In theory, it would make a lot of sense for you to make a similar decision in the NBA.
So, I will give you all the explanation/letter of resignation you're seeking.
Yes, I finally hit my breaking point.
I can certainly see that, not that you need to give us an explanation. I'm sure we all have a breaking point, well except maybe Z! Personally, I couldn't root for the Yankees. I'd probably just stop watching, since the Mets are pretty much the only baseball I watch. But to each his own.
Good luck arc.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
The Giants just went 3-13 - literally their worst season in my lifetime. The two runs they gave us in the Eli era were two of my best memories as a sports fan. I've been a Giants fan for as long as I have a memory. We could have another repeat of the 70's and I'm sure I'd still root for them.
The Giants are one of the greatest franchises in the world. There is a rich history and I'm far too proud of the things they have accomplished to ever turn my back on them.
I have an 85 year old Grandmother (my only remaining grandparent) whom I am very, very close with. She's a die hard Yankees fan and has been since the 40's. Her brother used to take her to games when she was a kid. He's terminally ill right now and she's on the verge of losing him and went to visit him in the hospital last week - he's not very responsive and his memories are mostly gone, but she told him about how I've been watching them and how we talk about the games every night now and he perked up and started recalling all of these memories from their childhood and they had a special moment together.
That meant something to me. For anyone else, I'm sure it doesn't mean shit. But seeing the enjoyment my Grandmother gets out of talking about the Yankees with me now, it makes it worth it. She's wanted me to root for them my entire life. I guess I finally caved.
Like I said - the snarky comments like the one above don't bother me. Everyone is free to call me names or say I'm taking the easy way out. All good. I'm a big boy and I can handle that. I made this decision for myself and no one else. I still have tons of love and respect for a lot of you guys even if you look at me differently now. :)
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I see I am a hot topic here - I figured this would come up sooner or later.
So, I will give you all the explanation/letter of resignation you're seeking.
Yes, I finally hit my breaking point.
I can certainly see that, not that you need to give us an explanation. I'm sure we all have a breaking point, well except maybe Z! Personally, I couldn't root for the Yankees. I'd probably just stop watching, since the Mets are pretty much the only baseball I watch. But to each his own.
Good luck arc.
Totally understandable, and thank you. I appreciate it.
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If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
1984 - 1990 the Mets had an extended run of being good. It was derailed by Gooden's drug and injury issues, but it's really a travesty that team won just one world series.
It's partly why I hate Hershiser. and he looks like a dick - so I hate him for that too.
They averaged over 95 games for that 7 year stretch and were 1st or 2nd every year.
In today's format I think they win more than one WS.
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In comment 13995172 Chris684 said:
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If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
1984 - 1990 the Mets had an extended run of being good. It was derailed by Gooden's drug and injury issues, but it's really a travesty that team won just one world series.
It's partly why I hate Hershiser. and he looks like a dick - so I hate him for that too.
They averaged over 95 games for that 7 year stretch and were 1st or 2nd every year.
In today's format I think they win more than one WS.
averaged over 95 *wins* not games.
I'd say 1984-90 would qualify. 90+ wins 6 times in 7 seasons, two 100+ win seasons, one championship. True, only 2 postseasons but that was the nature of pre-wild card baseball. With a wild card, the Mets would have made the playoffs every year but 1989.
They are different sports that are structured differently and I have different interest levels in each. I don't love the NBA nearly as much as I did when I was a kid. And all it takes is hitting big on one draft pick or something like Kawhi coming to NY (I know it's not happening) for the tides to turn.
I don't think it's that hard to understand.
Now that Arc is no longer a fan, maybe it's all rainbows and sunshine from here on out.
Thank you Arc, on behalf of all Mets fans.
And FWIW we will still invite you to the victory parade.
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In comment 13995172 Chris684 said:
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If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
1984 - 1990 the Mets had an extended run of being good. It was derailed by Gooden's drug and injury issues, but it's really a travesty that team won just one world series.
It's partly why I hate Hershiser. and he looks like a dick - so I hate him for that too.
They averaged over 95 games for that 7 year stretch and were 1st or 2nd every year.
In today's format I think they win more than one WS.
Exactly. When they finished second behind St. Louis a few times and even the Cubs once or twice, the Mets had a top 2 or 3 record in the NL. And were sent home due to only the division winners making the postseason.
Nowadays Yankee fans call Francesa complaining that the wild card sucks as it’s just a one game playoff, but his point is be happy you’re in the postseason if you finish second in the division. Plenty of times during that 84-90 run the Mets were the 2nd or 3rd best team in the NL but went home after 162 games since they missed out on winning the division by a couple games.
So, for me, my Mets fandom was what I outlined above...
- The worst team money could buy
- Generation K
- Losing the 2000 WS
- Missing the postseason in 2001
- 26.5 games out of 1st place in 2002
- 34.5 games out of 1st in 2003
- 25 games out of 1st in 2004
- 83 wins in 2005 despite adding Pedro and Beltran
- An excellent 2006 that ended terribly in a year where the Mets should have won the World Series
- An epic collapse in 2007 (I sat at Shea Stadium and watched the final game of the season in person and saw Tom Glavine take a steaming fucking dump on the mound nice and close up)
- Another collapse in 2008 where I again, sat at Shea Stadium only to watch the Marlins dance on the field after knocking us out of the postseason for the 2nd year in a row.
- A 2009 played in a weird, green/drab, cavernous Citi Field where the Mets finished 23 games out of 1st.
- A 4th place finish in 2010
- 25 games out of 1st in 2011
- 24 games out of 1st in 2012
- 22 games out of 1st in 2013
- 17 games out of 1st in 2014
- An awesome WS run in 2015 that ended in disappointment - another year the Mets should have won the WS but didn't.
- Losing the play-in in 2016 and not getting into the postseason
- A completely non-competitive 2017, finishing 27 games out of 1st.
- And here we are again... 11 games out on June 20th.
So, please don't tell me that I bailed at the first sign of trouble. I've had about 3-4 truly enjoyable seasons as a fan of this team in all the years I've been watching. They made the postseason in consecutive seasons one time in their entire history. ONE TIME.
I sat through year after year of fucking garbage and disappointment. From the medical mis-diagnosis' to the Madoff scandal to Omar claiming Adam Rubin "was lobby" for a job with the team in the middle of a press conference, I've been through the ringer and back over and over again.
For some of the older guys who remember the 86 team, or are old enough to have been a Mets fan since the inception of the team, I understand the allegiance and bond you probably feel to the team.
I don't feel that bond anymore. I became a bigger fan of Jacob deGrom than the Mets this year. That's when I knew I was wasting my time.
Now that Arc is no longer a fan, maybe it's all rainbows and sunshine from here on out.
Thank you Arc, on behalf of all Mets fans.
And FWIW we will still invite you to the victory parade.
You might be right! Something's gotta change. Maybe it was me this whole time.
So patting yourself on the back for your time as a Mets fan while moving on to the first place Yankees falls on deaf ears.
So patting yourself on the back for your time as a Mets fan while moving on to the first place Yankees falls on deaf ears.
That's nice. As I've said 10 times already, I couldn't give less of a shit what people like you think. You're an internet handle. Your opinion is literally irrelevant in anything I do or choose.
Dan, Z, pj, Metnut, Eric, and a few of the other guys that I've had tons of good baseball discussions (and sometimes arguments) with over the years are the ones I wish the best for because I think they're terrific and knowledgable fans.
Just wait until the team trades deGrom, who is having one of the best pitching seasons in team history, for a few prospects that may or may not be any good. This team is going to suck for the foreseeable future.
Just wait until the team trades deGrom, who is having one of the best pitching seasons in team history, for a few prospects that may or may not be any good. This team is going to suck for the foreseeable future.
You get it. Thank you. This sums it up exactly.
I don't think I am making an absurd choice here. It's just a personal decision. I wouldn't blame anyone else for doing something similar, nor would I try to govern who other people root for in sports.
Life is short. Everyone should do what makes them happy.
The owners do not care for the team's well being. Nyquist makes fair points. The owners are running a scam. The Mets are just their way of making a profit. I wish I had the heart to be indifferent. I love baseball but rooting for this team does make it less enjoyable only because there is no hope. Since the Mets won in 86, the Marlins were about 8 years away from their inaugural season, won a World Series, tore the team down and won another world series!
I asked this a few weeks earlier, what future sacrifice did someone make in Game 6 of 1986 that started this cursed franchise?
As I get older I dont really hate other teams as much. 10 years ago, the Eagles winning a super bowl would've really driven me nuts, but it doesn't really bother me that much. I just want the Giants come back strong next year.
While that's resulted in my being "softer" on the Yankees than 10 years ago, I'm not sure I could ever switch sides. I get where Arc is coming from though, we all have limited time in life and spending a lot of it watching sports is a decision and if you aren't getting entertainment out of it you should reevaluate.
LOL, all good man. I get it. You gotta do you, man.
I like most of those Yankee guys anyway...even if I'm persona non grata in those threads.
Okay, now that's going too far...
Hahah, now that would be a step too far.
I do like what they're doing over there, though. Certainly looks like a successful rebuild. Albies is a hell of a player.
I really do just love and appreciate the sport, so I'm sure I'll always keep tabs on the Mets somewhat and be happy for you guys when they are back on track.
So many of my friends are Mets fans but very few of them are really on that same level as I am/was and a lot of you guys are - which is why I was always here getting my fill of baseball talk. Most of them don't know much about the minors or the younger players and don't really get that deep into it .
I guess it's easier keeping fandom on a more naive level where you kinda just go with that "get 'em next year!" mentality. Unfortunately, that's not for me.
I think a lot of it is also that there are so many young kids coming up for the Yankees now, so I feel like I can kind of grow into that and watch them blossom there. I wouldn't have been able to do this 10-15 years ago on those vet-heavy FA teams with guys like Clemens, Randy Johnson, Giambi, etc. That was the only time I really didn't like how the Yankees operating (even though they were well within their right to do so)
To me, there's nothing better than rooting for a team full of homegrown young kids. Severino, Torres, Andujar, Judge, Sanchez, Bird, German, Frazier, etc. are just all really exuberant kids who just look like they're having a great time and I enjoy it.
I had hoped that's where the Mets were going about 4-5 years ago... I thought the same thing would happen here, and I was totally fine riding it out and being patient until everyone arrived. But, as we know, it didn't go quite as planned.
And that happens. It's baseball. I think I just despise the Wilpons so much and other aspects of the team - it's definitely like investing in a service in many ways that you're just routinely disappointed in.
Either way, a lot of you guys are great fans and deserve better - and I really do hope things turn around sooner than later for your sakes.
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It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
I'd say 1984-90 would qualify. 90+ wins 6 times in 7 seasons, two 100+ win seasons, one championship. True, only 2 postseasons but that was the nature of pre-wild card baseball. With a wild card, the Mets would have made the playoffs every year but 1989.
1984-1990 is 34 years ago. Different leadership, different everything. It's silly to suggest a team that was good 30+ years ago is going to maintain the same "trust". The Mets are pushing away an entire generation of fans. Sandy Alderson has been awful and the owners are awful too.
Honestly, I think Sandy is a halfway decent GM who just had a terrible offseason. Like really really terrible. But the foundation of this team is 100% solid if the ownership invested properly and competent management took over. Thor, JDG, Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, Lugo, Gsellman, Matz, Wheeler an improving farm system with Alonso and 2 first round pitchers rising. That's a much better situation than where the franchise was in 2010/2011/2012.
Honestly, I think Sandy is a halfway decent GM who just had a terrible offseason. Like really really terrible. But the foundation of this team is 100% solid if the ownership invested properly and competent management took over. Thor, JDG, Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, Lugo, Gsellman, Matz, Wheeler an improving farm system with Alonso and 2 first round pitchers rising. That's a much better situation than where the franchise was in 2010/2011/2012.
Again.. on what planet should the last 2 seasons = Sandy keeps his job? He had 4 losing seasons, 2 winning and now 2 more losing with a terrible farm system (bottom 10 in baseball). Where is the alent influx? JDG, Nimmo, Lugo, Gsellman, Matz, Wheeler have ALL been in the system 4 (or more) years. His ability to identify players to spend his money on = a major red flag in itself.
Yup.
I think the Knicks are actively trying to win and be relevant again - but obviously they've been mismanaged. But the NBA is just so much different. In baseball, you don't have to wait for a star player from somewhere else to come to you.
If you invest in scouting international talent, make smart signings, and spend money, you can build a good team. Of course, this is way easier said than done - but one of the biggest tell's was a couple years ago when the owners basically said "you show up, and then we'll spend money"
Literally the exact opposite of the correct approach.
You want fans to show up? Spend money - and not on players who are a fucking net NEGATIVE to the team. Putting a good product on the field will put fans in the seats. It's simple. And yet, the Wilpons somehow don't understand that.
I used to be fine with an underperforming MLB team because I was so invested in the reports from the minors and was having just as much fun tracking those guys and how they were progressing.
Now the farm seems barren outside of a few interesting prospects. The team here sucks. Alderson is bewilderingly allowed to basically operate on his terms and decide when he wants to step aside, and the Wilpons aren't going anywhere.
It sucks. This team really has a great fan base but they are alienating those fans now more than ever.
maybe I'm unique for feeling this way but it's all about rings. Especially in baseball.
I don't mean this to be shit-stirring, but 8 and 9 year old kids today in little league don't think of the Yankees as the sun of the baseball world. Even if the future (and present) are exciting.
the Giants, Cubs, Indians, Royals and Astros all have more recent success. Even the Mets (appearing in, but obviously losing a WS more recently than either the Yankees or Red Sox or Cardinals).
IMO there is no allure to kids or new fans simply for "meaningful September baseball". It's win or you're a loser.
So yeah the Mets franchise has just a few bright spots, but I wouldn't trade a few bright spots for sustained winning but no bright spots or more distant bright spots.
and if those bright spots meant you go through dark periods so be it. I'd prefer it not, I'd prefer to win every year, but my goal is not a perennial 90 win team. My goal as a fan is World Series wins.
Milton Ramos and Eudor Garcia (traded for cash, and retired), Josh Prevost (26 and still toiling in A+), Max Wotell (traded as a throw-in, sucks), Dez Lindsay (looks like a bust so far), David Thompson (MAYBE a role player), Blake Tiberi (didn't make the top...51 prospects in the SAL league yesterday... yes 51), Michael Paez (.660 OPS in A+ at 23), Colby Woodmansee... retired, Quinn Brodey (sucking in.. the SAL at 23). They have done a piss poor job in every facet of the game. Where are the IFA academy finds they used to find? Familia, Mejia, Robles ?
There are reports about how he isn't given a set offseason budget to work with and that every move must be either approved or disapproved by ownership, so that he doesn't really have the ability to act on a structured offseason plan. Even if that is true, there is no excuse for why the farm system is such shit. And a big part of the GM's job is to sell the owners on why your plan makes sense. If you can't convince your moronic owners to stop shooting the franchise in the foot with their meddling, maybe it's time for a new voice.
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I dislike the yankees too much to go there and i'd never care about another team as much as it's painful to be a Met fan, but with this ownership group withdrawing attachment is probably the only sane move. Whether that's just paying less attention to baseball in general (most likely) or adopting a random team idk.
Honestly, I think Sandy is a halfway decent GM who just had a terrible offseason. Like really really terrible. But the foundation of this team is 100% solid if the ownership invested properly and competent management took over. Thor, JDG, Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, Lugo, Gsellman, Matz, Wheeler an improving farm system with Alonso and 2 first round pitchers rising. That's a much better situation than where the franchise was in 2010/2011/2012.
Again.. on what planet should the last 2 seasons = Sandy keeps his job? He had 4 losing seasons, 2 winning and now 2 more losing with a terrible farm system (bottom 10 in baseball). Where is the alent influx? JDG, Nimmo, Lugo, Gsellman, Matz, Wheeler have ALL been in the system 4 (or more) years. His ability to identify players to spend his money on = a major red flag in itself.
And again I didn't say he should keep his job - in fact I literally suggested "competent management take over". "Halfway decent GM" isn't a glowing endorsement, nor a statement that he shouldn't be replaced.
The only supportive thing I'd say in his favor is that he may be the best we will ever get from the Wilpons so we should be careful what we wish for. It can get a lot worse and I know that because it has been a lot worse.
OR
I could have 10 or more 90+ win seasons, a couple of WS appearances (both losses), and only 2-3 down years, I would absolutely take the former.
That said, it's a retrospective argument where you already have the result. So, of course anyone would probably take the one trophy and deal with the other crap.
I think the point of sustainable competitiveness and why it is so important is that you are constantly giving yourself a shot. If you keep getting into the postseason, odds are you're going to make a run one of those years.
If you're a team that only gets in there once every decade, then you're SOL if you don't win that year. And that's basically what we've seen with the Mets. They could, and arguably should have capitalized in 2006 or 2015 and won the WS in one of those years - which would have changed the entire narrative about this team. But they didn't. And now, it looks like they're quite a ways from ever getting back there. They're moving in the wrong direction.
There are reports about how he isn't given a set offseason budget to work with and that every move must be either approved or disapproved by ownership, so that he doesn't really have the ability to act on a structured offseason plan. Even if that is true, there is no excuse for why the farm system is such shit. And a big part of the GM's job is to sell the owners on why your plan makes sense. If you can't convince your moronic owners to stop shooting the franchise in the foot with their meddling, maybe it's time for a new voice.
Sandy has also lost me as a full fledged supporter because he's showed no vision building on the roster since 2015. He hitched his wagon to having lights out starting pitching when starting pitchers are the post injury prone players in all of sports. He simply hasn't had a good plan and the resources he has been given in FA have been wasted.
In terms of the farm system, there are stats that back up the Mets org having spent in the bottom 1/3 of all baseball in spending, even in the new draft/IFA systems. In the old system they were even further behind. Their size of their scouting staff and analytics departments in all facets have been called into question by reporters. My point there is simply that it's unlikely any GM will be able to change the results dramatically without the resources necessary. And most good candidates won't even want to take a chance on a unstable situation like this one. That's why we are likely going to get Omar act 3.
No title since the early 70's.
No real stretch of sustained winning other than the mid to late 90s.
They've botched every single major decision they've had to make in the last 20 years.
The owner literally removes people and fans he doesnt like from the arena and blacklists them, including one of the franchise's few beloved figures.
Why should Dolan get any credit for "spending money" when it's always on the wrong people?
Apparently you can get lucky with just 1 or 2 players in the NBA and win a lot, even though the Knicks havent sniffed an ounce of success in years.
Yet they were and really should have won.
When you have a team with Thor and deGrom in their primes, and a few bats that have the potential to be better than what they've shown it's not hard to envision a scenario where they turn things around quickly.
I agree with others, Sandy is where people lose confidence. Even with the 2015 success he doesn't instill confidence that he's the guy to re-right the ship.
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Baseball is entertainment, and we are consumers. The Mets are basically running a scam where the Coupons are using the team to pay down their personal debt at the expense of their customers. Fuck them. In any other business, if the company you are investing resources in is actively looking to fuck you over, you'd jump ship, too. The Mets are breaking me as well, and while I can't just stop being a Mets fan and become a fan of another team, my passion and rooting interest in the team is definitely decreasing despite my love for baseball still being at an all time high.
Just wait until the team trades deGrom, who is having one of the best pitching seasons in team history, for a few prospects that may or may not be any good. This team is going to suck for the foreseeable future.
You get it. Thank you. This sums it up exactly.
I don't think I am making an absurd choice here. It's just a personal decision. I wouldn't blame anyone else for doing something similar, nor would I try to govern who other people root for in sports.
Life is short. Everyone should do what makes them happy.
No blame here either. Like you, Im 39 and has been following since 1990. But I will be switching for the sake of my young children.
No title since the early 70's.
No real stretch of sustained winning other than the mid to late 90s.
They've botched every single major decision they've had to make in the last 20 years.
The owner literally removes people and fans he doesnt like from the arena and blacklists them, including one of the franchise's few beloved figures.
Why should Dolan get any credit for "spending money" when it's always on the wrong people?
Apparently you can get lucky with just 1 or 2 players in the NBA and win a lot, even though the Knicks havent sniffed an ounce of success in years.
You continue to miss the point as you often do.
Appreciate it, bud. We haven't always agreed on everything, but I've sure as hell respected your unbridled optimism and way of seeing things through when they're darkest. You're as loyal as they come.
I ask b/c a colleague of mine was a life long Giants fan (before I knew him), grew up in NY and then went to BC for college, stayed in MA and became a Pats fan. I met him when he was a Pats fan and we worked together starting 2005 and he let it slip he used to be a Giants fan.
he claims his metamorphosis happened with Parcells leaving, but whatever - I never judged him - I judged the bandwagoner Pats fans who just heard about football in 2001, but not him.
I'm just wondering will you hate the Red Sox? Will you consider Mets fans inferior b/c they root for a different team in the same city (and to be fair all Yankees fans don't do this, but some do), will you start listening to and watching Yankees games religiously?
not being a dick, just wondering how much you've thought about this and if it's going to be like starting from scratch or maybe you'll get a Derek Jeter fat head for your living room and go to Yankees games with 5 fake aluminum foil rings on your fingers like some Yankees fans used to do (in the Jeter era) at Fenway.
Arc is a decent human being.
All decent human beings despise the Sawx.
Thus, arc will despise the Sawx.
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I'm just wondering will you hate the Red Sox?
Arc is a decent human being.
All decent human beings despise the Sawx.
Thus, arc will despise the Sawx.
of course. I hate the Red Sox more than I hate the Mets division rivals because I live in this area, but just trying to see how Arc's hate will manifest
I ask b/c a colleague of mine was a life long Giants fan (before I knew him), grew up in NY and then went to BC for college, stayed in MA and became a Pats fan. I met him when he was a Pats fan and we worked together starting 2005 and he let it slip he used to be a Giants fan.
he claims his metamorphosis happened with Parcells leaving, but whatever - I never judged him - I judged the bandwagoner Pats fans who just heard about football in 2001, but not him.
I'm just wondering will you hate the Red Sox? Will you consider Mets fans inferior b/c they root for a different team in the same city (and to be fair all Yankees fans don't do this, but some do), will you start listening to and watching Yankees games religiously?
not being a dick, just wondering how much you've thought about this and if it's going to be like starting from scratch or maybe you'll get a Derek Jeter fat head for your living room and go to Yankees games with 5 fake aluminum foil rings on your fingers like some Yankees fans used to do (in the Jeter era) at Fenway.
A good question!
And really, a clean slate. I can't act like I was a huge Derek Jeter fan if I wasn't rooting for his team when he was playing. I can, however, appreciate Jeter the way I always have (even as a Mets fan) and what he did both on the field and off (especially all of the gorgeous women he bagged).
The Red Sox hatred will come over time - but it won't be hard because I've hated the Celtics and Bruins for so long and it's mostly the same fans. Ironically, I never really hated the Patriots. I kind of liked the Bledsoe/Curtis Martin teams in the 90's (I didn't root for them, I just didn't hate them - I did pull for them in the SB against GB)
Because of all the young kids the Yankees have coming up now, I feel like I can embrace those guys since they have no long-term history there or anywhere else. I don't have to act like I've been a big Miguel Andujar fan my entire life because this is his rookie season. Same with Torres. And guys like Judge and Severino have only been up a short couple years now, so it's sort of the same thing there.
I have always respected the Yankees as a franchise and looked at them as the model baseball franchise. But I look at their history the same way I would have looked at the Mets' history before I was actually a fan of theirs. I was only 2 years old in 1986. I didn't watch any of those games, I don't remember any of those games. I know those games from watching reruns and highlights years and years later.
I actually watched more of the Yankees than the Mets when I was younger - but it was the Mattingly years. I was watching guys like Sam Militelo, Jimmy Key, etc. Funny enough, if I had waited just a couple more years, I probably never would have been a Mets fan to begin with. But I obviously was and don't, nor will I ever deny that part of my existence. Somewhere in the early 90's I decided I liked the Mets too and eventually just became a full-fledged Mets fan. (D'oh!)
As for the way I view Mets fans - I assuredly will not be a douchebag or act suddenly superior. I'm not on the teams, I don't play. I'm not any better than anyone else because of the team I root for. I always thought that was dumb.
But in short, I'll never be that guy flashing all the rings at games or acting like I've been a fan since 1920.
At the same time, I think you can embrace and appreciate the history. Even all of the greats who played well before my time. That really doesn't change. I obviously wasn't alive to watch Ruth, DiMaggio, Gehrig, Mantle, etc. But as a baseball fan, of course I've always marveled at what they did when they played - even if I couldn't watch it myself.
I'm going to the game next Friday. So, I think you can expect my hatred to ramp up VERY quickly from there.
I thought about going back to my roots, I was born in Dayton and was a Big Red Machine fan, attending many games at Crosley Field when guys like Concepcion, Morgan, Perez, Rose were just getting started. Well the family moved to CT and those roots were left behind. I really can't be a Reds fan, mostly cuz they suck too (and I hate red), but I don't feel any connection.
I then loved the old Yankees team of Munson, Chambliss, Roy White, Stick, Nettles, but then George ruined that, so I went to the Mets.
Now, Much like Arc, I am done with the Mets, outside of deGrom, Conforto, Thor, Nimmo maybe, I don't really like any of the Mets, and hate the front office and especially the owners.
Although I absolutely understand and agree with the enthusiasm the Yankee fans show for these young, homegrown players, having fun playing a kids game, I can't root for them...and Boston is out of the question, I barely like going to Boston let alone root for them (love the City, hate the people).
So I will not watch them on TV anymore or go to the stadium, which bums me out, as my wife and I did this often and watched most nights.
I will patiently wait for the Rangers and Knicks to disappoint me again too...But not the GMen, I'm optimistic with them.
PS. Rosario sucks too, a top prospect...BS, he is sooo underperforming...just another reason not to watch.
I could see it! Won't be hard for me to remember my long-term dislike of the Bravos :)
I'm a little torn on the Nationals because I still can't stand them and would absolutely love to see another DS exit for them, BUT... I would also love to see the Yanks crush them in a World Series. Which would bring their fans just as much anguish.
Mets ownership broke me this season and I posted this a week ago...
Thank You Mets!!!
NYG27 : 6/14/2018 4:05 pm : link : reply
Thank you for the 1986 season - As a 10 year old, it's one of my fondest memories watching that team win the World Series with my father.
Thank you for the 1988 season - I was a huge David Cone fan and this was perhaps my favorite season of following the Mets from game 1 to game 162. Too bad it ended in heartbreak against a team from destiny with the way Orel was pitching and how hot Gibson got.
Thank you for the 2000 season - A lot of fun that season as both NY teams captured the spirit of the city and first Subway Series in almost 50 years.
Thank you for the 2015 season - Man it was such a fun season to follow that team. Loved seeing the pitching staff healthy and dominating teams toward the end of the season. Plus sweeping the Cubs was great.
There were several other teams in between that some made the playoffs, many others that didn't. Through it all I just loved following this team, win or lose, for over 30 years.
Although I can not support this ownership group anymore. I will not cheer for another baseball team and will not follow the sport at all. If for some reason this ownership sells the team, I'll be more than happy to keep supporting this team I love.
Until then, this ownership group won't get anything else from me as a fan. No more attending games (used to watch 20+ home and away games a year). No more buying team merchandise. No more of my fan support.
Haven't watched any games since but do still like to read the Mets threads. Some habits are hard to break! LOL
I used that line on my friend - he caught me in a Yankees hat last weekend and was like "what the fuck is this?!"
He's probably my best bud, and I've been close with his family since we were kids. He's a Mets fan, but his father is a Yankees fan - and he was like "please do not let my father see this or find out about it. He'll start treating you like his son instead of me. Haha.
Yup - Kelvin was a big get for them. He's been fantastic this year. That's why I keep saying even if Betances has big trade value right now, NYY shouldn't (and won't) deal him because of how important the BP's start to become down the stretch and into October. It's the same reason why going into this season, I was annoyed that Swarzak was the only guy the Mets really added to their pen. I have always disliked Ramos, so that didn't move the needle for me at all.
WSH has pretty much everything they need now. But it'll also depend on whether or not Strasburg can stay healthy. The kid who is pitching in his place right now (Fedde) is one of (if not their best) pitching prospects I believe, but he doesn't look totally ready yet.
Scherzer is just an animal though. Hard to believe there's anyone in the NL better than deGrom right now - but he is.
Mets ownership broke me this season and I posted this a week ago...
Quote:
Thank You Mets!!!
NYG27 : 6/14/2018 4:05 pm : link : reply
Thank you for the 1986 season - As a 10 year old, it's one of my fondest memories watching that team win the World Series with my father.
Thank you for the 1988 season - I was a huge David Cone fan and this was perhaps my favorite season of following the Mets from game 1 to game 162. Too bad it ended in heartbreak against a team from destiny with the way Orel was pitching and how hot Gibson got.
Thank you for the 2000 season - A lot of fun that season as both NY teams captured the spirit of the city and first Subway Series in almost 50 years.
Thank you for the 2015 season - Man it was such a fun season to follow that team. Loved seeing the pitching staff healthy and dominating teams toward the end of the season. Plus sweeping the Cubs was great.
There were several other teams in between that some made the playoffs, many others that didn't. Through it all I just loved following this team, win or lose, for over 30 years.
Although I can not support this ownership group anymore. I will not cheer for another baseball team and will not follow the sport at all. If for some reason this ownership sells the team, I'll be more than happy to keep supporting this team I love.
Until then, this ownership group won't get anything else from me as a fan. No more attending games (used to watch 20+ home and away games a year). No more buying team merchandise. No more of my fan support.
Haven't watched any games since but do still like to read the Mets threads. Some habits are hard to break! LOL
Thank you!
And I sure as hell don't blame you.
I think most Mets fans look at the Yanks differently than I always have, so it was easier for me to do this. But I absolutely understand why most who don't want to watch the Mets anymore won't root for the Yanks either.
It's just what I wanted personally. But everyone can, and should do what's in their own best interest. No team is worth getting so frustrated over. So, whether the solution is to root for someone else or just stop watching altogether, there's really nothing wrong with that in my book. Sports are personal to everyone and we all have our own way of being fans. I can only control my own fandom. It's not my place to try and control anyone else's.
It's not every day that a guy who was lauding one franchise in one city as recently as a month and a half ago (like you were when the Mets were 11-1) to all of a sudden drop that franchise cold turkey and announce (in as weird a way as you did) that you are all of a sudden ALL IN on the better franchise in that very same city that also just happens to be in 1st place with young talent everywhere.
Before you say anything about anyone trying to "govern" you or whatever, that's not so. Enjoy the Yankees. Just saying it's not every day you hear something like this.
Sort of reminds me of Billy Zane's character in the Titanic hopping in that lifeboat with the women and children.
Hopefully you stick with us on NYG and don't become an Eagles fan due to their recent success. Who knows, you may be tempted before too long!
Besides, anyone with a gripe about the Wilpons should be more pissed at Selig/Manfred than the Wilpons themselves. MLB has kept them in charge and forced Alderson on them to count beans.
Blame MLB.
I think it'd be different if I was suddenly a Nationals fan or something - that wouldn't make any sense. No family ties, I don't live in DC, direct rival of the Mets, etc.
I've really just never hated the Yankees at all. And I think most people here can probably vouch for that - I've never been that guy when the teams play that was so "FUCK THE YANKEES!!!" or any of that. If anything, I've always just said I had wished the Mets were run more like they are.
At some point, I had to ask myself why I keep hoping for the Mets to be like the Yankees instead of just rooting for the Yankees. They're right in my backyard like the Mets are. They're a team from my home state, the state I live in now, and a team most of my family roots for.
Sure, it's unconventional, it's weird - it's something I'm sure no one here ever expected me to do. But sometimes I like to break the rules.
Trust me when I say I gave this a lot of thought. I did not decide this on a whim one night and act on impulse.
Like I've said - I can understand all sides of the responses I've gotten here. Some of you guys understand it and don't blame me, others can't figure out how I could do this, etc. And that's all good! It's not something you come across every day.
It's the only time I've ever done this in my life and the only time I ever will.
Even if the Giants never win another Super Bowl for the rest of my life, the two we got with Eli are two of my absolute best memories just just as a sports fan, but as a human being. I will never forget that for as long as I live and the Giants will always be truly special to me for that reason. I fucking hate when we suck, but no matter how bad things got last year, there was never a single second where I considered not rooting for the Giants anymore. And really, there never will be. I'm as confident in that as anything.
Of the 4 sports I watch and follow, the Giants are, and have always been at the top for me. I have been living and dying with that team for literally as long as I have a memory.
The Rangers are kind of the same thing. I think my Mets fandom was always on a sort of shaky foundation even though I was as invested in them as anyone over the years. Enough of these hits and frustrations eventually just knocked it all down. I think I had one foot out the door going into this season because I was so annoyed with how Alderson handled it.
Then, the 11-1 start happened and you're right - I was fucking elated. And I thought "hey, maybe I was wrong about this whole thing..." but when push came to shove, I wasn't. And I quickly realized this team was exactly what I thought they were (doing my best Dennis Green voice right now) and after I sat through 5 hours and 15 or 16 innings (whatever it was) of the Mets wasting another deGrom gem and striking out like 32 times against the Cubs, I finally just lost it and the whole thing came crashing down for me. That's when I decided I was done.
It will be an interesting journey for sure. Something I never thought I'd do. But here I am. And I truly am at peace with it. I don't regret it, I don't have remorse or think maybe I jumped the gun. I really don't. And I know that's SO easy to say when the Yankees are playing like this and the Mets are playing, well.... like this,
But I really like all the young kids there, and I feel that New York pride and know at the end of the day, I made the right decision for me.
This definitely made me chuckle.
Link - ( New Window )
Haha. Don't worry, things were so bad with me that they can't possibly be worse without me.
If you watch the major league team this year, and read Dan's minor league threads, how can you support this front office? Fan outrage (e.g., billboards) IMO played at least a small part in putting pressure to get rid of Reese and Garth Snow.
I'd happily contribute money to put up a huge anti-Alderson billboard near Citi Field. My worry is that the Wilpons would just hire another retread or crony rather than invest in a younger/savvier progressive front office.
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Haha. Don't worry, things were so bad with me that they can't possibly be worse without me.
Have to say, there's something a bit unsettling about reading the yankees thread and seeing you in 110%. Can't say I'm going to join you, but must be nice to be able to just flick a switch like that.
Meanwhile, for some stupid reason I'm staying up late watching these losers try (and awfully failing) to get to 6 games below .500. WTF
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In comment 13995866 Drewcon40 said:
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Haha. Don't worry, things were so bad with me that they can't possibly be worse without me.
Have to say, there's something a bit unsettling about reading the yankees thread and seeing you in 110%. Can't say I'm going to join you, but must be nice to be able to just flick a switch like that.
Meanwhile, for some stupid reason I'm staying up late watching these losers try (and awfully failing) to get to 6 games below .500. WTF
It'll take a little time before I feel exactly the same way I'm sure but it's happening faster than I thought it would.
They're still not used to me over there.. it's a very different landscape. But they'll grow to love and accept me like you guys did. :P
Sports and fandom can be weird.
Nonsense! We're always open to new recruits!
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They're still not used to me over there.. it's a very different landscape.
Nonsense! We're always open to new recruits!
Hahaha.
Well, now we're together year-round, bud. Giants/Rangers/Yanks/Knicks (LOL)
The Rangers haven't hoisted Lord Stanley's Cup since I was 9, the Knicks have never won in my lifetime and, well.. the baseball thing. Hopefully that changes this year. :)
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In comment 13996069 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 13995866 Drewcon40 said:
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Haha. Don't worry, things were so bad with me that they can't possibly be worse without me.
Have to say, there's something a bit unsettling about reading the yankees thread and seeing you in 110%. Can't say I'm going to join you, but must be nice to be able to just flick a switch like that.
Meanwhile, for some stupid reason I'm staying up late watching these losers try (and awfully failing) to get to 6 games below .500. WTF
It'll take a little time before I feel exactly the same way I'm sure but it's happening faster than I thought it would.
They're still not used to me over there.. it's a very different landscape. But they'll grow to love and accept me like you guys did. :P
Sports and fandom can be weird.
There's not supposed to be any Yankees fans on Mets threads.
I forgot about that rule. :(
I'll see myself out.
I forgot about that rule. :(
I'll see myself out.
LOL