was always going to get bombed in this ballpark by this team. It was as predictable as the sun rising. He is not built to get out right handed power hitters in coors field.
Vargas in Colorado isnt likely a good matchup. Nice to see the offense is still going... really all I care about at this point. They announced Thor's finger is 100% healed so now its just building his arm back up. NICE.
and shot into outer space. Zero reason for either to be on this team. Keep Peterson up passed tomorrow and activate Drew Smith. Bye bye Beck and Robles.
Vargas in Colorado isnt likely a good matchup. Nice to see the offense is still going... really all I care about at this point. They announced Thor's finger is 100% healed so now its just building his arm back up. NICE.
Vargas versus MLB isn't a good matchip. ERA of 7.29 in last 25 starts.
Vargas in Colorado isnt likely a good matchup. Nice to see the offense is still going... really all I care about at this point. They announced Thor's finger is 100% healed so now its just building his arm back up. NICE.
Vargas versus MLB isn't a good matchip. ERA of 7.29 in last 25 starts.
Put it in perspective.
Literally. If he allows ZERO earned runs in his next 25 starts. He will lower it to about league average.
I saw a thread he started about a friend named "Mark" which I assumed was just his attempt at humor/venting his frustrations with the Mets.
Arc, if you read Mets threads anymore, is this a real thing?
This is the sports equivalent of leaving your wife after she's gone blind due to venom from a rattlesnake bite to move in with the hot neighbor across the street who just won the lottery.
I am sure arc is just fed up with the team. I can't speak for him but he likely reached apathy with the Mets.
However, this is actually something that is difficult to quantify but the Wilpons are losing customers or fans.
I find myself very nostalgic for old Mets baseball - late 80s. In my YouTube search this interview with Steinbrenner came up. I gave it a listen (not the full hour), it is odd how he considers the Mets a competitor and actually uses the Mets as a benchmark for success. YouTube: Mike & Mad Dog 1990 Interview w/George Steinbrenner - ( New Window )
I see I am a hot topic here - I figured this would come up sooner or later.
So, I will give you all the explanation/letter of resignation you're seeking.
Yes, I finally hit my breaking point. I wasn't kidding when I said that a few weeks ago. I stuck with this team through way more than one shitty season. I was one of the only people still posting on these threads late in seasons when the team would be completely out of contention and barely anyone else was even watching at all.
I rooted for the worst team money could buy. I rooted for "Generation K"
I stuck with them through the collapse in 07. I stuck with them through the collapse in 08. I stuck with them when Castillo dropped the pop up and through the disappointing 09 campaign. I stuck with them through the Madoff scandal. I was at opening day when Colin Cowgill was the starting CF and Jon Niese was the starter. I sat in the frigid cold with garbage blowing all over the field and the stands half empty. I stuck with them when Scott Hairston was their best power hitter. Through 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014... all disappointing, non-playoff years.
I stuck with them when they couldn't score a run to save their lives in the summer of 2015 before things finally turned around and they made their run.
I stuck with them through 2017 when the entire team got hurt and the team was out of contention by Independence Day.
This past offseason, I said a billion times that I was finally just fed up. The team-building approach continues to suck. There's no accountability. Sandy Alderson is somehow seemingly in no danger whatsoever of losing his job despite horrendous fund allocation and an astounding lack of creativity. The Mets continue to be one of the biggest jokes in this city. And here they are, in the midst of another lost season - still sending Jason Vargas out to the hill to throw batting practice every 5 days. Jay Bruce still has THREE home runs. It's June 20th.
I loved this team for a long time. I'm not a bandwagon jumper or an uninformed sports fan. The Rangers haven't won a single thing since I was 9. The Knicks have never won anything in my lifetime. I still root for both. I would never in a million years root for the Islanders or Nets.
Most of my family are Yankee fans. I never hated the Yankees or considered them an "enemy," rather the team I always wished the Mets could have kept up with - but they rarely ever could.
I will never root against the Mets or be the douchebag who revels in their misfortunes. I hope for all of you guys, they turn it around soon and fix this mess. All of the fans deserve better. A lot better. But the Mets finally lost me, and I am completely at peace with the decision I've made. I thought long and hard about it, and at the end of the day, I don't really care what anyone else's opinion of me is as a fan. Life is short, I love baseball, and I love how the Yankees have built their team and love what they're doing.
They have a lot of young kids there who are easy to root for and exciting to watch. It's what I was hoping was happening with the Mets when Harvey, Thor, Conforto, Matz, etc, etc were all making their way up. But it didn't quite go that way and this season was the straw that broke the camels back.
Call me a bandwagon fan, call me a traitor... whatever you want to call me is fine. I get it. It seems unfathomable and inexplicable, but I couldn't do this anymore. The incompetence and constant circus has been sapping my enjoyment of baseball and it's just not worth my frustration. I'm happier now and better off.
A lot of you guys are great fans and I've really enjoyed all of the conversations and arguments and everything over the years. But alas, I have moved on.
Not that it would matter to the tone deaf Wilpons and the Mets. But as long as the Wilpons and Sterling Equities turn a profit, they likely do not care all that much.
I don't know arc's marital status or if he has children but if arc had 2 kids. That is likely 2 more Mets fans that the Wilpons potentially lost. I am sure there are many examples of this.
Not that it would matter to the tone deaf Wilpons and the Mets. But as long as the Wilpons and Sterling Equities turn a profit, they likely do not care all that much.
I don't know arc's marital status or if he has children but if arc had 2 kids. That is likely 2 more Mets fans that the Wilpons potentially lost. I am sure there are many examples of this.
arc - I'll see you on the Rangers threads!
No kids for me! Well, not yet at least. :)
But of course, brother. Looking forward to hockey season! Draft is only a few days away. Really important one for us.
We all wanted them to do more than Swarzak/Ramos in the BP.
Nobody wanted Bruce back.
We all bitched about Reyes possibly being the starting 2B. Imagine if that happened.
The Vargas deal was more surprising than hated.
The Frazier deal was the only one that had near unanimous approval given the price - and that's the 1 move that has worked out.
And who knows how it ends, but the worst move of all may have been Callaway. Almost epically terrible offseason for Sandy.
The Mets tendered Ramos in the winter and reached a deal to pay him $9.225 million this season — a deal that has turned out to be richer than the market dictated. Thirty-two relievers received contracts of more than $1 million this offseason; Ramos makes more than all but three of them. His ERA is worse than all but three of them (though there are two others who have yet to pitch).
But that doesn’t excuse the bad process here. The Mets paid a prospect cost (and more than $2 million in 2017 salary during a non-contending season in which they accepted lesser prospect returns in other deals to save similar amounts of cash) in order to acquire a reliever who was bound to be overpaid, since the arbitration system inherently overvalues saves.
It doesn’t make sense to pay that much of a premium to limit contract length at a position where a long-term deal is three years. Of that pool of 32 relievers mentioned above, only four got three-year deals — three from the Rockies and Tony Watson, whose guaranteed money from the Giants is less than Ramos’ 2018 salary thanks to a creative contract structure.
Quote:
One of the moves that’s worked out even worse, to this point, is the signing of Vargas. The veteran was supposed to be a stabilizing presence toward the back of the New York rotation, there to provide unspectacular ballast if and when Matt Harvey, Steven Matz and Zack Wheeler began to list.
It’s not as if there were no warning signs. The Mets believed Vargas’ significant second-half fade last season to be an aberration; instead, it looks more like the norm for the 35-year-old. His ERA over his last 25 starts, since the beginning of last July, is 7.29.
Again, Alderson’s front office has to delegate what money it’s allowed to spend as efficiently as possible. Paying for a low-ceiling starter — and we can’t even talk about floors with pitchers this deep into their 30s — isn’t that.
Pretty much all of the Mets fans here have been through all of the same crap, and more for some of us. I go back to the 80s and the heartbreaks of losing the division to St. Louis, the ‘88 NLCS vs. LA, the crappy early to mid-90s teams. I’ve even written letters to the Mets and sent them unused tickets. But you stick though it.
Will you abandon the Giants if things go poorly in the next 10 years? And just because people don’t post on game threads every game of every season doesn’t mean they don’t measure up as a fan. Good luck over there, though.
Are they not just as much, if not more of a joke than the Mets?
You have scandal, incompetence, tuning out former greats, one of the worst owners in sports who has a penchant for calling his enemies "alcoholics".
The Mets have been to an NLCS and a World Series since the Knicks have done anything of note.
Maybe the only thing keeping you with the Knicks is that the other team in town happens to suck more? But like the Yankees, the Celtics are exciting, and building the right way and have tons of young talent. In theory, it would make a lot of sense for you to make a similar decision in the NBA.
couldn't do what Arc did, no knock, I just mentally can't switch teams HOWEVER... the NBA is different, always 1-2 moves away from being interesting. MLB you have 30 teams drafting 40 players every year, farm systems 25 man rosters, bad shape in baseball = bad shape for for foreseeable future. The Suns future suddenly looks bright tomorrow. That's the difference.
If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
I see I am a hot topic here - I figured this would come up sooner or later.
So, I will give you all the explanation/letter of resignation you're seeking.
Yes, I finally hit my breaking point.
I can certainly see that, not that you need to give us an explanation. I'm sure we all have a breaking point, well except maybe Z! Personally, I couldn't root for the Yankees. I'd probably just stop watching, since the Mets are pretty much the only baseball I watch. But to each his own.
If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
It's probably just my waining interest in the NBA - it's easier for me to just deal with the incompetence of the Knicks because I can watch the Rangers instead (or the NFL whenever games are on)
The Giants just went 3-13 - literally their worst season in my lifetime. The two runs they gave us in the Eli era were two of my best memories as a sports fan. I've been a Giants fan for as long as I have a memory. We could have another repeat of the 70's and I'm sure I'd still root for them.
The Giants are one of the greatest franchises in the world. There is a rich history and I'm far too proud of the things they have accomplished to ever turn my back on them.
I have an 85 year old Grandmother (my only remaining grandparent) whom I am very, very close with. She's a die hard Yankees fan and has been since the 40's. Her brother used to take her to games when she was a kid. He's terminally ill right now and she's on the verge of losing him and went to visit him in the hospital last week - he's not very responsive and his memories are mostly gone, but she told him about how I've been watching them and how we talk about the games every night now and he perked up and started recalling all of these memories from their childhood and they had a special moment together.
That meant something to me. For anyone else, I'm sure it doesn't mean shit. But seeing the enjoyment my Grandmother gets out of talking about the Yankees with me now, it makes it worth it. She's wanted me to root for them my entire life. I guess I finally caved.
Like I said - the snarky comments like the one above don't bother me. Everyone is free to call me names or say I'm taking the easy way out. All good. I'm a big boy and I can handle that. I made this decision for myself and no one else. I still have tons of love and respect for a lot of you guys even if you look at me differently now. :)
I see I am a hot topic here - I figured this would come up sooner or later.
So, I will give you all the explanation/letter of resignation you're seeking.
Yes, I finally hit my breaking point.
I can certainly see that, not that you need to give us an explanation. I'm sure we all have a breaking point, well except maybe Z! Personally, I couldn't root for the Yankees. I'd probably just stop watching, since the Mets are pretty much the only baseball I watch. But to each his own.
Good luck arc.
Totally understandable, and thank you. I appreciate it.
But to say you just have to ditch the Mets (and root for the 1st place Yankees no less) because you "hit your breaking point" but at the same time you are willing and able to be a Knicks fan in 2019? Doesn't add up.
If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
1984 - 1990 the Mets had an extended run of being good. It was derailed by Gooden's drug and injury issues, but it's really a travesty that team won just one world series.
It's partly why I hate Hershiser. and he looks like a dick - so I hate him for that too.
They averaged over 95 games for that 7 year stretch and were 1st or 2nd every year.
In today's format I think they win more than one WS.
If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
1984 - 1990 the Mets had an extended run of being good. It was derailed by Gooden's drug and injury issues, but it's really a travesty that team won just one world series.
It's partly why I hate Hershiser. and he looks like a dick - so I hate him for that too.
They averaged over 95 games for that 7 year stretch and were 1st or 2nd every year.
In today's format I think they win more than one WS.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
I'd say 1984-90 would qualify. 90+ wins 6 times in 7 seasons, two 100+ win seasons, one championship. True, only 2 postseasons but that was the nature of pre-wild card baseball. With a wild card, the Mets would have made the playoffs every year but 1989.
But to say you just have to ditch the Mets (and root for the 1st place Yankees no less) because you "hit your breaking point" but at the same time you are willing and able to be a Knicks fan in 2019? Doesn't add up.
They are different sports that are structured differently and I have different interest levels in each. I don't love the NBA nearly as much as I did when I was a kid. And all it takes is hitting big on one draft pick or something like Kawhi coming to NY (I know it's not happening) for the tides to turn.
If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
1984 - 1990 the Mets had an extended run of being good. It was derailed by Gooden's drug and injury issues, but it's really a travesty that team won just one world series.
It's partly why I hate Hershiser. and he looks like a dick - so I hate him for that too.
They averaged over 95 games for that 7 year stretch and were 1st or 2nd every year.
In today's format I think they win more than one WS.
Exactly. When they finished second behind St. Louis a few times and even the Cubs once or twice, the Mets had a top 2 or 3 record in the NL. And were sent home due to only the division winners making the postseason.
Nowadays Yankee fans call Francesa complaining that the wild card sucks as it’s just a one game playoff, but his point is be happy you’re in the postseason if you finish second in the division. Plenty of times during that 84-90 run the Mets were the 2nd or 3rd best team in the NL but went home after 162 games since they missed out on winning the division by a couple games.
It amazes me how both teams own their own networks ( the Yanks have sold 70%) Yes has no daily programming besides the MKS. Sny has daily programming like Daily News live, Sportnite and Baseball night in N.Y. All that I watch everyday. I don't watch Loud mouths. Yet, the run their teams so differently.
I'm 33 - so I have no actual recollection of the team that won the WS n 86 (or really most of the teams in the 80's)
So, for me, my Mets fandom was what I outlined above...
- The worst team money could buy
- Generation K
- Losing the 2000 WS
- Missing the postseason in 2001
- 26.5 games out of 1st place in 2002
- 34.5 games out of 1st in 2003
- 25 games out of 1st in 2004
- 83 wins in 2005 despite adding Pedro and Beltran
- An excellent 2006 that ended terribly in a year where the Mets should have won the World Series
- An epic collapse in 2007 (I sat at Shea Stadium and watched the final game of the season in person and saw Tom Glavine take a steaming fucking dump on the mound nice and close up)
- Another collapse in 2008 where I again, sat at Shea Stadium only to watch the Marlins dance on the field after knocking us out of the postseason for the 2nd year in a row.
- A 2009 played in a weird, green/drab, cavernous Citi Field where the Mets finished 23 games out of 1st.
- A 4th place finish in 2010
- 25 games out of 1st in 2011
- 24 games out of 1st in 2012
- 22 games out of 1st in 2013
- 17 games out of 1st in 2014
- An awesome WS run in 2015 that ended in disappointment - another year the Mets should have won the WS but didn't.
- Losing the play-in in 2016 and not getting into the postseason
- A completely non-competitive 2017, finishing 27 games out of 1st.
- And here we are again... 11 games out on June 20th.
So, please don't tell me that I bailed at the first sign of trouble. I've had about 3-4 truly enjoyable seasons as a fan of this team in all the years I've been watching. They made the postseason in consecutive seasons one time in their entire history. ONE TIME.
I sat through year after year of fucking garbage and disappointment. From the medical mis-diagnosis' to the Madoff scandal to Omar claiming Adam Rubin "was lobby" for a job with the team in the middle of a press conference, I've been through the ringer and back over and over again.
For some of the older guys who remember the 86 team, or are old enough to have been a Mets fan since the inception of the team, I understand the allegiance and bond you probably feel to the team.
I don't feel that bond anymore. I became a bigger fan of Jacob deGrom than the Mets this year. That's when I knew I was wasting my time.
There are many Mets fans who have been through everything you outlined above and more (like the day they traded Seaver, for example).
So patting yourself on the back for your time as a Mets fan while moving on to the first place Yankees falls on deaf ears.
That's nice. As I've said 10 times already, I couldn't give less of a shit what people like you think. You're an internet handle. Your opinion is literally irrelevant in anything I do or choose.
Dan, Z, pj, Metnut, Eric, and a few of the other guys that I've had tons of good baseball discussions (and sometimes arguments) with over the years are the ones I wish the best for because I think they're terrific and knowledgable fans.
Baseball is entertainment, and we are consumers. The Mets are basically running a scam where the Coupons are using the team to pay down their personal debt at the expense of their customers. Fuck them. In any other business, if the company you are investing resources in is actively looking to fuck you over, you'd jump ship, too. The Mets are breaking me as well, and while I can't just stop being a Mets fan and become a fan of another team, my passion and rooting interest in the team is definitely decreasing despite my love for baseball still being at an all time high.
Just wait until the team trades deGrom, who is having one of the best pitching seasons in team history, for a few prospects that may or may not be any good. This team is going to suck for the foreseeable future.
“He is starting to feel comfortable, like he belongs“
I would be curious to see if he gives up 20 if he stayed in. I really would not be that shocked.
Mets paying Vargas/Ramos $15.225 million this year. They have combined for 57.1 IP, 50 ER (7.85 ERA)
Vargas versus MLB isn't a good matchip. ERA of 7.29 in last 25 starts.
That's crazy, the Mets lost a great fan.
Mets paying Vargas/Ramos $15.225 million this year. They have combined for 57.1 IP, 50 ER (7.85 ERA)
Bad decision after bad decision from this GM
Quote:
Vargas in Colorado isnt likely a good matchup. Nice to see the offense is still going... really all I care about at this point. They announced Thor's finger is 100% healed so now its just building his arm back up. NICE.
Vargas versus MLB isn't a good matchip. ERA of 7.29 in last 25 starts.
Put it in perspective.
Literally. If he allows ZERO earned runs in his next 25 starts. He will lower it to about league average.
Arc, if you read Mets threads anymore, is this a real thing?
This is the sports equivalent of leaving your wife after she's gone blind due to venom from a rattlesnake bite to move in with the hot neighbor across the street who just won the lottery.
However, this is actually something that is difficult to quantify but the Wilpons are losing customers or fans.
I find myself very nostalgic for old Mets baseball - late 80s. In my YouTube search this interview with Steinbrenner came up. I gave it a listen (not the full hour), it is odd how he considers the Mets a competitor and actually uses the Mets as a benchmark for success.
YouTube: Mike & Mad Dog 1990 Interview w/George Steinbrenner - ( New Window )
So, I will give you all the explanation/letter of resignation you're seeking.
Yes, I finally hit my breaking point. I wasn't kidding when I said that a few weeks ago. I stuck with this team through way more than one shitty season. I was one of the only people still posting on these threads late in seasons when the team would be completely out of contention and barely anyone else was even watching at all.
I rooted for the worst team money could buy. I rooted for "Generation K"
I stuck with them through the collapse in 07. I stuck with them through the collapse in 08. I stuck with them when Castillo dropped the pop up and through the disappointing 09 campaign. I stuck with them through the Madoff scandal. I was at opening day when Colin Cowgill was the starting CF and Jon Niese was the starter. I sat in the frigid cold with garbage blowing all over the field and the stands half empty. I stuck with them when Scott Hairston was their best power hitter. Through 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014... all disappointing, non-playoff years.
I stuck with them when they couldn't score a run to save their lives in the summer of 2015 before things finally turned around and they made their run.
I stuck with them through 2017 when the entire team got hurt and the team was out of contention by Independence Day.
This past offseason, I said a billion times that I was finally just fed up. The team-building approach continues to suck. There's no accountability. Sandy Alderson is somehow seemingly in no danger whatsoever of losing his job despite horrendous fund allocation and an astounding lack of creativity. The Mets continue to be one of the biggest jokes in this city. And here they are, in the midst of another lost season - still sending Jason Vargas out to the hill to throw batting practice every 5 days. Jay Bruce still has THREE home runs. It's June 20th.
I loved this team for a long time. I'm not a bandwagon jumper or an uninformed sports fan. The Rangers haven't won a single thing since I was 9. The Knicks have never won anything in my lifetime. I still root for both. I would never in a million years root for the Islanders or Nets.
Most of my family are Yankee fans. I never hated the Yankees or considered them an "enemy," rather the team I always wished the Mets could have kept up with - but they rarely ever could.
I will never root against the Mets or be the douchebag who revels in their misfortunes. I hope for all of you guys, they turn it around soon and fix this mess. All of the fans deserve better. A lot better. But the Mets finally lost me, and I am completely at peace with the decision I've made. I thought long and hard about it, and at the end of the day, I don't really care what anyone else's opinion of me is as a fan. Life is short, I love baseball, and I love how the Yankees have built their team and love what they're doing.
They have a lot of young kids there who are easy to root for and exciting to watch. It's what I was hoping was happening with the Mets when Harvey, Thor, Conforto, Matz, etc, etc were all making their way up. But it didn't quite go that way and this season was the straw that broke the camels back.
Call me a bandwagon fan, call me a traitor... whatever you want to call me is fine. I get it. It seems unfathomable and inexplicable, but I couldn't do this anymore. The incompetence and constant circus has been sapping my enjoyment of baseball and it's just not worth my frustration. I'm happier now and better off.
A lot of you guys are great fans and I've really enjoyed all of the conversations and arguments and everything over the years. But alas, I have moved on.
Much love.
I don't know arc's marital status or if he has children but if arc had 2 kids. That is likely 2 more Mets fans that the Wilpons potentially lost. I am sure there are many examples of this.
arc - I'll see you on the Rangers threads!
I don't know arc's marital status or if he has children but if arc had 2 kids. That is likely 2 more Mets fans that the Wilpons potentially lost. I am sure there are many examples of this.
arc - I'll see you on the Rangers threads!
No kids for me! Well, not yet at least. :)
But of course, brother. Looking forward to hockey season! Draft is only a few days away. Really important one for us.
AJ Ramos $9.25M
Signed:
Jason Vargas 2/$16M
A Swarzak 2/$14M
Jay Bruce 3/$39M
Todd Frazier 2/$17M
Jose Reyes 1/$2M
Harvey 0.0 fWAR
Ramos -0.2
Vargas -0.5
Swarzak -0.1
Bruce -0.3
Frazier 0.8
Reyes -0.8
= NEGATIVE 1.1 fWAR... Sandy Alderson managed to spend 102.85 million dollars this off-season and come up in the red... UNBELIEVABLE.
Nobody wanted Bruce back.
We all bitched about Reyes possibly being the starting 2B. Imagine if that happened.
The Vargas deal was more surprising than hated.
The Frazier deal was the only one that had near unanimous approval given the price - and that's the 1 move that has worked out.
And who knows how it ends, but the worst move of all may have been Callaway. Almost epically terrible offseason for Sandy.
But that doesn’t excuse the bad process here. The Mets paid a prospect cost (and more than $2 million in 2017 salary during a non-contending season in which they accepted lesser prospect returns in other deals to save similar amounts of cash) in order to acquire a reliever who was bound to be overpaid, since the arbitration system inherently overvalues saves.
It doesn’t make sense to pay that much of a premium to limit contract length at a position where a long-term deal is three years. Of that pool of 32 relievers mentioned above, only four got three-year deals — three from the Rockies and Tony Watson, whose guaranteed money from the Giants is less than Ramos’ 2018 salary thanks to a creative contract structure.
Quote:
One of the moves that’s worked out even worse, to this point, is the signing of Vargas. The veteran was supposed to be a stabilizing presence toward the back of the New York rotation, there to provide unspectacular ballast if and when Matt Harvey, Steven Matz and Zack Wheeler began to list.
It’s not as if there were no warning signs. The Mets believed Vargas’ significant second-half fade last season to be an aberration; instead, it looks more like the norm for the 35-year-old. His ERA over his last 25 starts, since the beginning of last July, is 7.29.
Again, Alderson’s front office has to delegate what money it’s allowed to spend as efficiently as possible. Paying for a low-ceiling starter — and we can’t even talk about floors with pitchers this deep into their 30s — isn’t that.
Pretty much all of the Mets fans here have been through all of the same crap, and more for some of us. I go back to the 80s and the heartbreaks of losing the division to St. Louis, the ‘88 NLCS vs. LA, the crappy early to mid-90s teams. I’ve even written letters to the Mets and sent them unused tickets. But you stick though it.
Will you abandon the Giants if things go poorly in the next 10 years? And just because people don’t post on game threads every game of every season doesn’t mean they don’t measure up as a fan. Good luck over there, though.
Are they not just as much, if not more of a joke than the Mets?
You have scandal, incompetence, tuning out former greats, one of the worst owners in sports who has a penchant for calling his enemies "alcoholics".
The Mets have been to an NLCS and a World Series since the Knicks have done anything of note.
Maybe the only thing keeping you with the Knicks is that the other team in town happens to suck more? But like the Yankees, the Celtics are exciting, and building the right way and have tons of young talent. In theory, it would make a lot of sense for you to make a similar decision in the NBA.
So, I will give you all the explanation/letter of resignation you're seeking.
Yes, I finally hit my breaking point.
I can certainly see that, not that you need to give us an explanation. I'm sure we all have a breaking point, well except maybe Z! Personally, I couldn't root for the Yankees. I'd probably just stop watching, since the Mets are pretty much the only baseball I watch. But to each his own.
Good luck arc.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
The Giants just went 3-13 - literally their worst season in my lifetime. The two runs they gave us in the Eli era were two of my best memories as a sports fan. I've been a Giants fan for as long as I have a memory. We could have another repeat of the 70's and I'm sure I'd still root for them.
The Giants are one of the greatest franchises in the world. There is a rich history and I'm far too proud of the things they have accomplished to ever turn my back on them.
I have an 85 year old Grandmother (my only remaining grandparent) whom I am very, very close with. She's a die hard Yankees fan and has been since the 40's. Her brother used to take her to games when she was a kid. He's terminally ill right now and she's on the verge of losing him and went to visit him in the hospital last week - he's not very responsive and his memories are mostly gone, but she told him about how I've been watching them and how we talk about the games every night now and he perked up and started recalling all of these memories from their childhood and they had a special moment together.
That meant something to me. For anyone else, I'm sure it doesn't mean shit. But seeing the enjoyment my Grandmother gets out of talking about the Yankees with me now, it makes it worth it. She's wanted me to root for them my entire life. I guess I finally caved.
Like I said - the snarky comments like the one above don't bother me. Everyone is free to call me names or say I'm taking the easy way out. All good. I'm a big boy and I can handle that. I made this decision for myself and no one else. I still have tons of love and respect for a lot of you guys even if you look at me differently now. :)
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I see I am a hot topic here - I figured this would come up sooner or later.
So, I will give you all the explanation/letter of resignation you're seeking.
Yes, I finally hit my breaking point.
I can certainly see that, not that you need to give us an explanation. I'm sure we all have a breaking point, well except maybe Z! Personally, I couldn't root for the Yankees. I'd probably just stop watching, since the Mets are pretty much the only baseball I watch. But to each his own.
Good luck arc.
Totally understandable, and thank you. I appreciate it.
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If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
1984 - 1990 the Mets had an extended run of being good. It was derailed by Gooden's drug and injury issues, but it's really a travesty that team won just one world series.
It's partly why I hate Hershiser. and he looks like a dick - so I hate him for that too.
They averaged over 95 games for that 7 year stretch and were 1st or 2nd every year.
In today's format I think they win more than one WS.
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In comment 13995172 Chris684 said:
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If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
1984 - 1990 the Mets had an extended run of being good. It was derailed by Gooden's drug and injury issues, but it's really a travesty that team won just one world series.
It's partly why I hate Hershiser. and he looks like a dick - so I hate him for that too.
They averaged over 95 games for that 7 year stretch and were 1st or 2nd every year.
In today's format I think they win more than one WS.
averaged over 95 *wins* not games.
I'd say 1984-90 would qualify. 90+ wins 6 times in 7 seasons, two 100+ win seasons, one championship. True, only 2 postseasons but that was the nature of pre-wild card baseball. With a wild card, the Mets would have made the playoffs every year but 1989.
They are different sports that are structured differently and I have different interest levels in each. I don't love the NBA nearly as much as I did when I was a kid. And all it takes is hitting big on one draft pick or something like Kawhi coming to NY (I know it's not happening) for the tides to turn.
I don't think it's that hard to understand.
Now that Arc is no longer a fan, maybe it's all rainbows and sunshine from here on out.
Thank you Arc, on behalf of all Mets fans.
And FWIW we will still invite you to the victory parade.
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In comment 13995172 Chris684 said:
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If the NBA is a "1 or 2 moves away" league and the Knicks have managed to suck for all but 1 of the past 17-18 years, that speaks to some pretty bad management.
It does. But the Knicks had an extended run of being good. 1991-97 51, 60, 57, 55, 47, 57 wins, 50 wins in 99, 48 in 2000. The Mets NEVER have extended runs of being a good team. EVER.
1984 - 1990 the Mets had an extended run of being good. It was derailed by Gooden's drug and injury issues, but it's really a travesty that team won just one world series.
It's partly why I hate Hershiser. and he looks like a dick - so I hate him for that too.
They averaged over 95 games for that 7 year stretch and were 1st or 2nd every year.
In today's format I think they win more than one WS.
Exactly. When they finished second behind St. Louis a few times and even the Cubs once or twice, the Mets had a top 2 or 3 record in the NL. And were sent home due to only the division winners making the postseason.
Nowadays Yankee fans call Francesa complaining that the wild card sucks as it’s just a one game playoff, but his point is be happy you’re in the postseason if you finish second in the division. Plenty of times during that 84-90 run the Mets were the 2nd or 3rd best team in the NL but went home after 162 games since they missed out on winning the division by a couple games.
So, for me, my Mets fandom was what I outlined above...
- The worst team money could buy
- Generation K
- Losing the 2000 WS
- Missing the postseason in 2001
- 26.5 games out of 1st place in 2002
- 34.5 games out of 1st in 2003
- 25 games out of 1st in 2004
- 83 wins in 2005 despite adding Pedro and Beltran
- An excellent 2006 that ended terribly in a year where the Mets should have won the World Series
- An epic collapse in 2007 (I sat at Shea Stadium and watched the final game of the season in person and saw Tom Glavine take a steaming fucking dump on the mound nice and close up)
- Another collapse in 2008 where I again, sat at Shea Stadium only to watch the Marlins dance on the field after knocking us out of the postseason for the 2nd year in a row.
- A 2009 played in a weird, green/drab, cavernous Citi Field where the Mets finished 23 games out of 1st.
- A 4th place finish in 2010
- 25 games out of 1st in 2011
- 24 games out of 1st in 2012
- 22 games out of 1st in 2013
- 17 games out of 1st in 2014
- An awesome WS run in 2015 that ended in disappointment - another year the Mets should have won the WS but didn't.
- Losing the play-in in 2016 and not getting into the postseason
- A completely non-competitive 2017, finishing 27 games out of 1st.
- And here we are again... 11 games out on June 20th.
So, please don't tell me that I bailed at the first sign of trouble. I've had about 3-4 truly enjoyable seasons as a fan of this team in all the years I've been watching. They made the postseason in consecutive seasons one time in their entire history. ONE TIME.
I sat through year after year of fucking garbage and disappointment. From the medical mis-diagnosis' to the Madoff scandal to Omar claiming Adam Rubin "was lobby" for a job with the team in the middle of a press conference, I've been through the ringer and back over and over again.
For some of the older guys who remember the 86 team, or are old enough to have been a Mets fan since the inception of the team, I understand the allegiance and bond you probably feel to the team.
I don't feel that bond anymore. I became a bigger fan of Jacob deGrom than the Mets this year. That's when I knew I was wasting my time.
Now that Arc is no longer a fan, maybe it's all rainbows and sunshine from here on out.
Thank you Arc, on behalf of all Mets fans.
And FWIW we will still invite you to the victory parade.
You might be right! Something's gotta change. Maybe it was me this whole time.
So patting yourself on the back for your time as a Mets fan while moving on to the first place Yankees falls on deaf ears.
So patting yourself on the back for your time as a Mets fan while moving on to the first place Yankees falls on deaf ears.
That's nice. As I've said 10 times already, I couldn't give less of a shit what people like you think. You're an internet handle. Your opinion is literally irrelevant in anything I do or choose.
Dan, Z, pj, Metnut, Eric, and a few of the other guys that I've had tons of good baseball discussions (and sometimes arguments) with over the years are the ones I wish the best for because I think they're terrific and knowledgable fans.
Just wait until the team trades deGrom, who is having one of the best pitching seasons in team history, for a few prospects that may or may not be any good. This team is going to suck for the foreseeable future.