My daughter scored a 32 on her ACT test fior the second time. I realize this is a good score but she has aspirations of attending a top school. Duke, Notre Dame to name two. Her resume away from her test score is spectacular- you could not make up one better. I have two questions: one, should she take her ACT for third time and, two, should she take the SAT as well. I know she can “super score” her two scores, which comes out to a 33/ 34. Should the 32 be good enough. Or try for two more points?
What is her HS rank and out of how many? She probably needs to be real close to the top. I assume she is 4.0 unwaited HS GPA?
Does she play a sport? If she is going to be playing a sport she has a really good chance.
My wife made my son take the SAT a third time. He wasn't happy about it, but his reading went up from mid 600's to mid 700's. I think he was close to perfect in math and writing. He graduated from Johns Hopkins last year. I think the admissions have gotten tougher, and the acceptance rate lower, each year.
And then there are some schools now that aren't requiring or looking at either one. Go figure.
Ignoring special cases like legacy, sports, or race, it seemed to me that GPA (with hard courses) and standardized test scores are the first big filters. If you meet those criteria, then they look at extra curriculars.
What is her HS rank and out of how many? She probably needs to be real close to the top. I assume she is 4.0 unwaited HS GPA?
Does she play a sport? If she is going to be playing a sport she has a really good chance.
She is top of class. Not Valadictorian. She Fences but will not in college. Eight or nine AP classes, plenty of leadership and diversity and volunteer hours.
No, Irish and German and French.
And then there are some schools now that aren't requiring or looking at either one. Go figure.
same here, but I have twins who are current sophomores, to-be juniors next fall.
Ignoring special cases like legacy, sports, or race, it seemed to me that GPA (with hard courses) and standardized test scores are the first big filters. If you meet those criteria, then they look at extra curriculars.
One consultant said that only the engineering schools really care about the SAT anymore (again - these are people I'm paying for advice, and I have no idea how good it is - ain't cheap though).
I did hear basically the same - GPA plus the "strength of schedule" are the biggest factors. My daughter's good that way, she's got a good average and has taken 4 APs thus far, halfway through. That's why I want to try to get at some people who know the admissions requirements a little better, I'd hate to sink her chances at ideal situation over a silly thing like taking the wrong standardized test.
She's hoping to go to veterinary school, and is thinking Cornell (while my wallet quietly weeps in the background).
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Shes at a disadvantage, if she applies to certain elite schools
No, Irish and German and French.
"I was a mutt" - ( New Window )
My daugher's situation: 3.9+ GPA (unweighted). Has taken and aced about 6 advanced placement classes.
She has taken ACT six times as she just could not crack that nut. Scores 25,23,26,24,29,32 with a super score (highest of all categories for all attempts) of 33. English is holding her back. She is planning on taking it again in September
It seemed as though the better the school (Rice, Univ Texas Austin, Univ of Mich, Northwestern) the less we liked it. The 32 score will get her into any school that we are still considering as of today, but we will be visiting some over the summer.
One reason why I am still pushing her to up her score is in the case that we may be able to score some merit scholarship money, since we do not qualify for need at any school.
If your daughter wants to be a vet (or do anything that involves grad school), the undergraduate school probably doesn't matter so much, and maybe an easier school is better for boosting undergraduate GPA. Maybe a good college is important if you want a serious peer group, but it might not matter as much if your daughter is motivated and has a strong personality and will not be distracted from her goal of becoming a vet.
I remember visiting Cornell with my son in August. It was nice at that time of year, but I couldn't help but notice the snow shovels inside the vestibules.
(1) Sounds like your daughter is well on her way to getting into a very fine school whether she re-takes the ACT or not;
(2) That said, couldn't hurt to try again!
(3) In terms of getting into a uber-elite school, pushing the ACT score another point up (or SAT another 10-15 points) doesn't really matter.
(4) There are a few sure-fire ways of getting into an uber-elite, assuming a certain baseline of excellent grades / standardized test scores:
a. Your child is a legacy;
b. Your child is attending a very prestigious prep school which signals a significant asset base for future alumni contributions;
c. You've been throwing $20,000 a year at the school;
d. You're child is a serious newspaper athlete;
e. You're child possesses a very unique recognized skill, such as all-state #1 violinist;
f. You're child is from a rural area and being poor all the better;
g. You're child is classified as a minority;
h. Serious, close connection with a VIP associated with school.
If your daughter doesn't have any of the above, don't despair! She will do very, very well in the admissions process, but acceptance into an uber-elite like a Duke will be a long toss!
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Have your daughter try both and see which she is better at. One of my son's friends didn't do well on SAT, but got like a 35 or 36 on ACT.
Ignoring special cases like legacy, sports, or race, it seemed to me that GPA (with hard courses) and standardized test scores are the first big filters. If you meet those criteria, then they look at extra curriculars.
One consultant said that only the engineering schools really care about the SAT anymore (again - these are people I'm paying for advice, and I have no idea how good it is - ain't cheap though).
I did hear basically the same - GPA plus the "strength of schedule" are the biggest factors. My daughter's good that way, she's got a good average and has taken 4 APs thus far, halfway through. That's why I want to try to get at some people who know the admissions requirements a little better, I'd hate to sink her chances at ideal situation over a silly thing like taking the wrong standardized test.
She's hoping to go to veterinary school, and is thinking Cornell (while my wallet quietly weeps in the background).
Some of Cornell’s schools are actually part of SUNY system. You might want to look if any have a major that would help out with her graduate aspirations while still giving flexibility to change her mind
1. Each time you take the test, on average you go up a point on the ACT. So a 32 the first time and a 33 the second time are the same score for admissions purposes
2. Your daughter has a strong record but likely not strong enough to get into many elite schools unless she is a first gen college student or a person of color. Not trying to be political, just conveying a fact.
3. Geography will work against her if she only applies to
east coast schools
4. The writing questions are crucially important, you need to spend the money to get a writing counselor to work with her. Kids often want to be honest about things like depression or suicidal thoughts or mental illnessNo college wants those problems. Not saying your daughter has those problems but 18 year olds don’t have a good sense of what an admissions office wants to hear. In general stories about triumphing over adversity are the way to go. My father lost job, I had vision problems etc
5. She will likely get into Notre Dame. Duke is tougher. They accept less than ten percent
6. Look for a few schools off the beaten track. Like Emory. Great school, tons of money because of Coke stock.
Certain schools become trendy thru social media.!Like Tulane. Avoid trendy but look for schools whose reputation is increasing like NYU and Fordham.
If you live in NY,!Cornell’s state schools are a tremendous bargain and much easier to get into than the private schools at Cornell. Hotel school
At Cornell is also best in the world
Hope that helps
Being 3rd our 550 is really good. It also matters how tough the HS is. If you are in top HS in a good area with a lot good students then 3rd out of 150 is good.
Keep in mind, just about every kid applying to ND & Duke have a ton of AP classes and "volunteer" work. She has to have something that sets her apart without top test scores. You may want to consider a tutor to try to bring up the scores some.
Also, as mentioned, it depends on the major. My son was going for Engineering at top engineering schools and those requirements are much tougher than other majors. Certain schools have certain majors that they are known for. Those will be tougher to get into then other majors at the same school.
And where you live is another factor. Schools want kids from all over the country and world. So if a lot of kids in your state apply to a school then it will be tougher to get into. In MD, it is tough to get into the UMD since so many in state kids apply for it and they take a ton out of state and foreign kids. It is much easier to get into UMD if you live in NY than MD.
So, there are a lot of factors. That's why it helps to maximize what you can control. Get the best test scores possible. That won't guarantee anything, but it's a piece of the puzzle and will certainly help.
1. Each time you take the test, on average you go up a point on the ACT. So a 32 the first time and a 33 the second time are the same score for admissions purposes
2. Your daughter has a strong record but likely not strong enough to get into many elite schools unless she is a first gen college student or a person of color. Not trying to be political, just conveying a fact.
3. Geography will work against her if she only applies to
east coast schools
4. The writing questions are crucially important, you need to spend the money to get a writing counselor to work with her. Kids often want to be honest about things like depression or suicidal thoughts or mental illnessNo college wants those problems. Not saying your daughter has those problems but 18 year olds don’t have a good sense of what an admissions office wants to hear. In general stories about triumphing over adversity are the way to go. My father lost job, I had vision problems etc
5. She will likely get into Notre Dame. Duke is tougher. They accept less than ten percent
6. Look for a few schools off the beaten track. Like Emory. Great school, tons of money because of Coke stock.
Certain schools become trendy thru social media.!Like Tulane. Avoid trendy but look for schools whose reputation is increasing like NYU and Fordham.
If you live in NY,!Cornell’s state schools are a tremendous bargain and much easier to get into than the private schools at Cornell. Hotel school
At Cornell is also best in the world
Hope that helps
Thanks. We did visit Emory and she loved it. Also spent a Sunday at Fordham. She liked it a lot but their biology department is not on par with other schools she looked at. She loved Duke and we know the numbers- 8% admission rate. UNC is also a consideration. We have a long way to go but thankfully I feel we are ahead of the curve. Thanks for your input and suggestions.
So what we've found is this is true for many state schools where in-state residents get lower tuition. In those cases the requirements for out of state students were actually lower than they were for in-state students (because they pay more).
Which I understand, but I think it's a terrible policy.
I do not believe this is true say for example NJ kids applying to UMD and the admissions dept saying we have too many NJ kids, take that kid from South Carolina. It's just purely about the $$$. At least in the research we've done, state schools only broke it down (test scores, class rank, etc. for incoming students) by in-state and out of state - not for each state.
The more I look into college for my children the bigger scam it all seems like.
I believe this is too tight of a statement. I have the understanding that schools not only want to be ethnically and culturally diverse, but also geographically diverse. Our college prep guy suggests that MN (where we live) students have an advantage when applying to East Coast schools, partially due to the reputation of the MN school system and partially due to cultural difference vs the east coast.
On the other extreme, Texas law states that any high school grad in the top 10% of their class is guaranteed a spot in a State school. So what you have there is 90% of Texas State schools are Texas residents. It is nearly impossible to get into any of them as an out of stater, even for exceptional athletes (example my daughter’s ex-boyfriend)
Also, grading is not like it used to be. My graduating class in NJ (1981) had only one 4.0 average. My daughter’s school has about 20, and nearly half have a GPA of 3.75 (those that qualify for National Honors Society) or above.
Our school only provides info on buckets of percentages ex. top 10%, top 25%....
I thank all for the great information - this has been an eye opening thread. I had some idea how shitty this process is - like the geography working against you.
I had no idea about the Cornell/SUNY partnership, that's definitely one to look in to.
I think it was mentioned before, but having an alum write letters of recommendation also help in the process. I applied to ND some 30 years ago and was wait-listed, I ended up not getting in or re-trying. However, at the time when I started the application (and I don't remember how I did this) but I was hooked up with a counselor or an alum from ND that they assigned to me to help through the whole process.
I know that that guy did recommend me, but my SAT was just average and While my grades were good, I went to a small school where they were probably nothing special in the grand scheme of things.
As an aside, I too was a fencer, and I talked to the fencing coaches at all the schools I applied to, just to see if it gave me a bit more of an edge over other kids.