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NFT: Mets at Rockies Game 4

ZGiants98 : 6/21/2018 2:36 pm
Mets Lineup

Brandon Nimmo – RF
Todd Frazier – 3B
Michael Conforto – CF
Wilmer Flores – 1B
Jose Bautista – LF
Kevin Plawecki – C
Jose Reyes – 2B
Amed Rosario – SS
Steven Matz – LHP

Rockies Lineup

DJ LeMahieu – 2B
Charlie Blackmon – CF
Nolan Arenado – 3B
Trevor Story – SS
Ian Desmond – 1B
Chris Iannetta – C
Gerardo Parra – LF
Noel Cuevas – RF
Kyle Freeland – LHP

Lugo needs to move back to the pen ASAP. He is running out of steam. Vargas in Colorado was always a recipe for disaster. At least the bats are heating up. Let’s get a split on the road. LGM.
Moving Lugo back to the  
Metnut : 6/21/2018 2:53 pm : link
pen is waiving the white flag on the season IMO while at the same time hindering our planning for 2019.

Vargas is one of the worst pitchers in MLB. Putting him in the rotation 1/5 of the remaining games is going to lead to an awful lot of losses. When Vargas goes 2-3 IP for a lot of his starts, it also ruins the bullpen for the next days too so any benefit of Lugo in the pen is diminished also.

We might as well see if Lugo is a legit starting pitcher so we have an idea what's in-house when planning for 2019.
How can a team that's  
Metnut : 6/21/2018 2:55 pm : link
9 games below .500 have any hope of getting back into the race if you're already giving 10+ starts to someone as awful as Vargas. It makes it even worse that it'll just add uncertainty to our offseason.
Lugo is a legit starter  
spike : 6/21/2018 3:08 pm : link
No reason to signVargas this offseason for TWO Effing seasons
Vargas was an all star last year and was pitching pretty  
ZGiants98 : 6/21/2018 3:13 pm : link
well for a stretch after his horrendous start. He’s a 5th starter. He’s going to get blown up once in a while. It doesn’t bother me much with Wheeler and Matz pitching much better. We need Thor back immediately. Lugo is losing gas. His velocity has been down. He needs to move back to the pen and when we do move him there it will strengthen two areas. Moving Vargas to the pen would likely be a disaster.
He has an ERA over 7.25 his last  
Metnut : 6/21/2018 3:22 pm : link
25 starts. That's almost a full season worth. He's awful. He's 35. That's nowhere near a "legit 5th starter." Put Lugo out there and at least give the poor people paying money to see this team a chance to see a competitive game past the third inning.
Matz is getting shelled early  
ZGiants98 : 6/21/2018 3:25 pm : link
Wonderful
Who pays an over the hill fifth starter  
spike : 6/21/2018 3:25 pm : link
14 million for two years?

Thats so Sandy.
They arent that far  
spike : 6/21/2018 3:27 pm : link
From being the worst team in the NL.
Some AL teams are awful
RE: Matz is getting shelled early  
Metnut : 6/21/2018 3:28 pm : link
In comment 13996528 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Wonderful


Matz has been a bit lucky with his "good" run lately. Low K numbers. Fip over 5 the season is poor. Whatever happens today, Coors is wacky, but he needs to be better to close out the year or can't be in the rotation in 2019 IMO.

It's part of why I want to give Lugo and/or Gsellmen extended time in the rotation. We can't have another 90 loss year and not know what we have in-house. The new GM is going to need as much tape on these guys as he can get.
Wheeler's improvement  
Metnut : 6/21/2018 3:30 pm : link
looks more legit to me. His velocity is going up up up. Not missing enough bats to be really successful, but you can see the legit stuff. He looks healthy and has stuff to be top of rotation. An adjustment or two away from being really good.

On the other hand, Matz' stuff never looked as good as his initial callup. He seems like a #5 starter type to me (a real #5 start, not trash like Vargas).
Cut  
DanMetroMan : 6/21/2018 3:33 pm : link
Reyes and Vargas. Call up McNeil and Oswalt. Frazier to Boston for Groome who just had TJ. McNeil every day 3b. After the season fire Sandy, give the keys to the car to Damon Oppenheimer.
I think there are reasons for that..  
ZGiants98 : 6/21/2018 3:34 pm : link
Matz kind of pitches more to contact which explains why his FIP would be higher although I generally agree. Matz’s K/9 was up this month and his FIP was much lower prior to today meaning he may have been getting stronger as the year’s been moving forward. I think that would follow the eye test as well.
Can Mcneil play  
spike : 6/21/2018 3:38 pm : link
3rd base?
RE: I think there are reasons for that..  
Metnut : 6/21/2018 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13996542 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Matz kind of pitches more to contact which explains why his FIP would be higher although I generally agree. Matz’s K/9 was up this month and his FIP was much lower prior to today meaning he may have been getting stronger as the year’s been moving forward. I think that would follow the eye test as well.


His FIP is over 5 not including today.
RE: RE: I think there are reasons for that..  
ZGiants98 : 6/21/2018 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13996553 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 13996542 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Matz kind of pitches more to contact which explains why his FIP would be higher although I generally agree. Matz’s K/9 was up this month and his FIP was much lower prior to today meaning he may have been getting stronger as the year’s been moving forward. I think that would follow the eye test as well.



His FIP is over 5 not including today.


I said this “month”
RE: Can Mcneil play  
Metnut : 6/21/2018 3:42 pm : link
In comment 13996549 spike said:
Quote:
3rd base?


Good question.

Frazier is useful as an extra backup IF, but doesn't seem like a starter on a contending team. That's why the Yankees wern't interested in bringing him back and why no one offered him a much better contract.

They should deal Frazier and see what McNeil can do. We really need to see what we have in-house.

Can't Cabrera play 3B even if McNeil can't or has that ship sailed?
Matz’s FIP in June is  
ZGiants98 : 6/21/2018 3:43 pm : link
3.85
RE: Cut  
Metnut : 6/21/2018 3:45 pm : link
In comment 13996540 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Reyes and Vargas. Call up McNeil and Oswalt. Frazier to Boston for Groome who just had TJ. McNeil every day 3b. After the season fire Sandy, give the keys to the car to Damon Oppenheimer.


I'd lose my shit if we got Oppenheimer. In a good way. Like Stanley Cup Chamnpion Trotz coaching the Islanders way.

Can't see Boston giving up Groome for just Frazier though. Maybe we add Familia and they throw in another asset.
McNeil  
DanMetroMan : 6/21/2018 3:48 pm : link
has 148 career games at 3b. If the question is "will he be a GG over there?" no probably not, he won't anywhere on the diamond but it's time to start moving players. Frazier should be able to bring something solid back. Dump Reyes, Dump Vargas. Oswalt is no great shakes but lets see if he's a long man option for next year etc etc.
RE: RE: Cut  
DanMetroMan : 6/21/2018 3:48 pm : link
In comment 13996567 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 13996540 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Reyes and Vargas. Call up McNeil and Oswalt. Frazier to Boston for Groome who just had TJ. McNeil every day 3b. After the season fire Sandy, give the keys to the car to Damon Oppenheimer.



I'd lose my shit if we got Oppenheimer. In a good way. Like Stanley Cup Chamnpion Trotz coaching the Islanders way.

Can't see Boston giving up Groome for just Frazier though. Maybe we add Familia and they throw in another asset.


I'd offer Oppenheimer the same power Sandy has.
RE: Matz’s FIP in June is  
Metnut : 6/21/2018 3:49 pm : link
In comment 13996561 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
3.85


That's not bad and all but given the constant injuries and FIP over 5 for the both 2017 and 2018, he's not really an asset I'm excited about right now.

I think we can agree that hopefully he stays healthy the rest year and deliver better results.
You can’t get Arenado out right now...  
ZGiants98 : 6/21/2018 3:51 pm : link
Wow.
RE: You can’t get Arenado out right now...  
gmen9892 : 6/21/2018 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13996584 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Wow.


My question is, why even give him something to hit? In that first inning, you just take your chances with the next batter. Game was essentially over before it began.
RE: RE: You can’t get Arenado out right now...  
ZGiants98 : 6/21/2018 4:18 pm : link
In comment 13996621 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
In comment 13996584 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Wow.



My question is, why even give him something to hit? In that first inning, you just take your chances with the next batter. Game was essentially over before it began.


Agree.
RE: Vargas was an all star last year and was pitching pretty  
Section331 : 6/21/2018 4:21 pm : link
In comment 13996508 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
well for a stretch after his horrendous start. He’s a 5th starter. He’s going to get blown up once in a while. It doesn’t bother me much with Wheeler and Matz pitching much better. We need Thor back immediately. Lugo is losing gas. His velocity has been down. He needs to move back to the pen and when we do move him there it will strengthen two areas. Moving Vargas to the pen would likely be a disaster.


He was an all star due to 3 good months, after which he was absolutely brutal. A 6.5 ERA and nearly 2.0 WHIP after the ASG. I was agnostic on signing him, but 2 years was ridiculous.

I'd dump Vargas from the rotation before Lugo. Lugo has struggled his past 2 starts, but AZ and CO aren't easy places to pitch. I think he's best utilized as a starter, and I wouldn't move him from the rotation simply because we're paying Vargas.
RE: RE: Can Mcneil play  
Eman11 : 6/21/2018 6:16 pm : link
In comment 13996557 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 13996549 spike said:


Quote:


3rd base?



Good question.

Frazier is useful as an extra backup IF, but doesn't seem like a starter on a contending team. That's why the Yankees wern't interested in bringing him back and why no one offered him a much better contract.

They should deal Frazier and see what McNeil can do. We really need to see what we have in-house.

Can't Cabrera play 3B even if McNeil can't or has that ship sailed?


Yanks were interested in bringing Frazier back but only on a one year deal because they thought Andujar was still a year away.
5 double plays  
pjcas18 : 6/21/2018 7:01 pm : link
that sounds like a lot.
.  
pjcas18 : 6/21/2018 7:06 pm : link
Quote:

MetsBlog.com
‏ @metsblog
36s37 seconds ago

Mets send Flexen, Sewald down to Triple-A; replacements not yet known
Mets management has no recognition of talent.  
Phil in Joisey : 6/21/2018 7:19 pm : link
Whoever pushed for Vargas' signing should be fired and Vargas should be cut.....doing both on the same day
would be perfect timing imho.
RE: .  
Mike in NY : 6/21/2018 9:22 pm : link
In comment 13996716 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


Quote:



MetsBlog.com
‏ @metsblog
36s37 seconds ago

Mets send Flexen, Sewald down to Triple-A; replacements not yet known



Replacement players are Kevin Kaczmarski and Drew Smith
Trade Frazier to the Phillies  
spike : 6/21/2018 11:03 pm : link
who needs a 3baseman and a veteran clubhouse leader.

They've been looking at the ancient Adrian Beltre of the Rangers
RE: They arent that far  
gmenatlarge : 6/22/2018 6:36 am : link
In comment 13996535 spike said:
Quote:
From being the worst team in the NL.
Some AL teams are awful


Since the 11-1 start, they have the worst record in baseball!
RE: Vargas was an all star last year and was pitching pretty  
gmenatlarge : 6/22/2018 6:39 am : link
In comment 13996508 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
well for a stretch after his horrendous start. He’s a 5th starter. He’s going to get blown up once in a while. It doesn’t bother me much with Wheeler and Matz pitching much better. We need Thor back immediately. Lugo is losing gas. His velocity has been down. He needs to move back to the pen and when we do move him there it will strengthen two areas. Moving Vargas to the pen would likely be a disaster.


Thor? Thor? Who's that? This is two years in a row now that he's hurt and he wasn't that good this season before he got hurt. Maybe it's time to lose that nickname and stop hanging around with Cespedes- no production out of either of them.
RE: RE: Vargas was an all star last year and was pitching pretty  
spike : 6/22/2018 7:39 am : link
In comment 13996959 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
In comment 13996508 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


well for a stretch after his horrendous start. He’s a 5th starter. He’s going to get blown up once in a while. It doesn’t bother me much with Wheeler and Matz pitching much better. We need Thor back immediately. Lugo is losing gas. His velocity has been down. He needs to move back to the pen and when we do move him there it will strengthen two areas. Moving Vargas to the pen would likely be a disaster.



Thor? Thor? Who's that? This is two years in a row now that he's hurt and he wasn't that good this season before he got hurt. Maybe it's time to lose that nickname and stop hanging around with Cespedes- no production out of either of them.


Syndergaard might need to be in another club before he realizes his potential. I wish he would learn something from Degrom
RE: RE: Vargas was an all star last year and was pitching pretty  
PhiPsi125 : 6/22/2018 8:06 am : link
In comment 13996959 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:

Thor? Thor? Who's that? This is two years in a row now that he's hurt and he wasn't that good this season before he got hurt. Maybe it's time to lose that nickname and stop hanging around with Cespedes- no production out of either of them.


This is just incorrect. Noah was pitching well before his injury.
Noah has been a little  
Metnut : 6/22/2018 9:49 am : link
unlucky with his injuries. It's not like he has arm or shoulder trouble. Trading him now, selling low, would be crazy IMO.
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