Over the past 3-4 weeks I've read a few threads saying, that during Reese's tenure here, he put, "Eli Manning in a bad offense", "He was a terrible GM", and I quote "Wasted Eli Manning's prime years"...
However, a GM who put together two Super Bowl championship teams, did he fail Eli Manning during his entire time here?
Is that true?
So I decided to research the point
What does the data show?
The New York Giants offensive stats
2008 3rd ranked offense in NFL, 26.7 points per game
2009 8th ranked offense in NFL, 25.0 points per game
2010 7th ranked offense in NFL, 24.7 points per game
2011 9th ranked offense in NFL, 24.6 points per game
2012 6th ranked offense in NFL, 26.8 points per game
2013 18th ranked offense in NFL, 18.3 points per game
2014 13th ranked offense in NFL, 23.8 points per game
2015 6th ranked offense in NFL, 26.2 points per game
2016 26th ranked offense in NFL, 19.3 points per game
2017 31st ranked offense in NFL, 15.3 points per game
From 2008-2017, 6 out of 10 seasons, Jerry Reese had Eli Manning playing in a top ten offense in the NFL.
7 out of 10 of those seasons, Jerry Reese had Eli Manning playing in an offense that averaged 25.0 points per game.
During all 10 seasons, from 2008-2017, the average points per game came out to 23.1.
In 2013, the reason why the Giants offense suffered, is because Manning lost 2 legitimate #1 Wr's, in Manningham and Nicks.
In 2014 and 2015, the Giants offense bounced back.
They drafted Odell Beckham Jr, hired McAdoo as OC, and the team averaged 25 points per game, during those years.
The issue in those years wasn't the offense, it was the defense.
In 2014 they gave up 25 points per game, and were ranked 22nd in the NFL
In 2015 they gave up 27 points per game, and were ranked 30th in the NFL
So logically Reese realized the Defense was the issue, he therefore injected over 200 million dollars in free agency to shore it up, by signing Snackes, Jenkins and Vernon...
Did it work?
In 2016 the New York Giants defense went from giving up 27.1 points per game, to now giving up only 17.8 points per game, they had the #2 ranked defense in the NFL.
They went 11-5, and Reese was being called a Genius, not only by many BBI members here, but also from the Media.
Before the 2017 season, many sportswriters and media labeled the Giants favorites to win the superbowl.
When Odell Beckham Jr was injured in the 3rd preseason game, there season was shot. Odell masked and covered up many weaknesses the offense had, including the O Line....
The Giants never had an opportunity to have a healthy Engram, Shepard and Odell on the field together to see what they could do.
So as a summary, in my opinion, there were only two seasons the Giants offense truly failed during Reese's tenure here.
Once in 2013, the other in 2017, both seasons were decimated when there star WR went down.
This is what the data shows me...
Feel free to discuss
He’s gone and won’t get another GM job. He was a shitty cap manager too.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/draft.htm - ( New Window )
You can have 3 bad drafts in a twelve year tenure but they can’t be in a row
But when they started to break down and aged....he had zero luck replacing the old guard.
That was his major problem.....could not find a center, guard nor LT. Sad
2007-2012 was an inherited line.
Reese from 2012 on: Terrible GM
Although these days I think the BBI consensus is that Tom Coughlin, Ernie Accorsi and Dave Gettleman were responsible for any successes during the Reese era and all Reese did was screw things up.
there's plenty of blame to share. Talent acquisition was very spotty during the Reese/Coughlin years. To think a lauded superbowl winning HC isn't getting a huge input is silly, yet way too many folks lay all the blame on Reese's doorstep.
regarding Reese, folks used to praise his GM skills, but overall, more often than not, the Giants were restricted cap-wise, so I'm not sure how good he was in that department.
His resume is not ***drastically*** different than Eli's who delivered two SB wins but zero playoff wins outside of those years and led or tied for league lead in INTs three times. I am not attempting to give JR the credit I am Eli, but it is not as radical a comparison as will be made out by fans.
Where Reese really failed was in the 3rd and later where he found almost nothing and yet stopped trying to find o-linemen in Rounds 4-5 where others have had success.
For the balance of his tenure, Reese did not properly address the offensive line which players like O'Hara and Diehl have said showed signs of decline beginning in 2009. Depth also became an issue moving forward mostly because we got nothing out of lower parts of the draft...rds 3-7...for years. SB 46 saw McKenzie, Snee and Diehl still from EA. He brought in Baas at center who was okay and Kevin Boothe at left guard although Boothe did not start the year as the starter.
I give him credit for Nicks even though most knew he had foot problems from college. I also give him short term credit for JPP but a lot of his draft picks had career threatening or ending injuries like Kenny Phillips, Nicks, Cruz etc. There are also so many areas he simply ignored in his drafts...tight end, the OL, the defensive line, LB. He built from the outside in and we had terrible depth. Our running game went to hell after Bradshaw left.
I could go on and on...Reese's overall tenure as GM was sub-par, to say the least.
So obviously he needed to go, but saying he wasted Eli's years is prejudicial. Yes, much was bad, but Eli's legacy is built entirely on two SB wins which JR made very big contributions towards and at least you can say he never neglected surrounding Eli with weapons.
That said, this post completely misses the point with how Reese bungled Eli Manning's second half of his career. He waited too long to address the offensive line and didn't invest enough resources into rebuilding the line.
The offensive line has been a disgrace since 2009 or so, save one solid year in 2012. The team hasn't been able to push the D-line back, or give Eli any time to throw in pass protection. It crippled the offense.
But from then on it was a steady decline into mediocrity and haplessness.
The 11 team was an average team, whose veteran championship players reached deep and stole a Super Bowl. Is there any other Super Bowl champion who finished a regular season with more pts given up than points scored?
You can spin it anyway you want, but my take is Reese inherited a great team and made it better.
But he could not sustain, which is the mark of average. His neglect or inability to rebuild an offensive line or restore the rich tradition of Giant linebackers was frustrating.
Reese s tenure will not be remembered as being as successful as Ascorci s even though both Super Bowl Championships came during his tenure, at least not by me.
Probably why he was fired first. Some of those reaches as well as poor clock management probably got him the axe first.
I do believe Reese had some bad luck with injuries, but bad draft picks, every single team has them.
I think what hurt them, was when they made some below average picks, mostly on the offensive line, they just held on to payers too long instead of cutting bait and trying to upgrade the roster.
But what are you going to do, there are 31 other teams trying to win to.
Is he though? He's neither the head coach or the GM.
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To put it all on Reese is unfair.
Probably why he was fired first. Some of those reaches as well as poor clock management probably got him the axe first.
Tom's clock management was directly a result of one of the worst defenses in team history, which was built by Reese.
no one is blameless and we can cherry-pick points everywhere.
It hurts to even look at the names...
Exactly. They told Reese as early as 2009 that it needed to be addressed, that it was beginning to crumble. We all saw it with our own eyes too.
The Coughlin/Gilbride offense was predicated on having time to throw downfield with 5 and 7 step drops. Once they couldn't do that, the whole thing collapsed. Gilbride got the axe first, then Coughlin.
Coughlin has fielded a winner everywhere he's gone. That's not coincidence. Boston College, Jacksonville, NYG, and now back in Jacksonville. When he goes somewhere, the team immediately turns around.
Coughlin knows how to build a team.
But from then on it was a steady decline into mediocrity and haplessness.
The 11 team was an average team, whose veteran championship players reached deep and stole a Super Bowl. Is there any other Super Bowl champion who finished a regular season with more pts given up than points scored?
You can spin it anyway you want, but my take is Reese inherited a great team and made it better.
But he could not sustain, which is the mark of average. His neglect or inability to rebuild an offensive line or restore the rich tradition of Giant linebackers was frustrating.
Reese s tenure will not be remembered as being as successful as Ascorci s even though both Super Bowl Championships came during his tenure, at least not by me.
+1
Another reason why the offensive line was such a big deal was because they couldn't control the TOP and keep their horrible defense off the field.
The line crumbled and the team followed. Like dominoes.
If Webb ever went on to success for us I think that could shift his legacy more favorably. His last draft ironically could prove to be one of his best.
The line crumbled and the team followed. Like dominoes.
He’s gone and won’t get another GM job. He was a shitty cap manager too.
Chris Canty
Antrell Rolle
Jason Pierre Paul
Linval Joseph
Hakeem Nicks
Ahmad Bradshaw
Mario Manningham
Michael Boley
All high level players who contributed to SB 46 but yeah, he sucked, period.
Reese had a good run here. He’s not an idiot nor a fool. He knows how to build a team but it ended badly. Shit happens. If Mars hired a competent HC or even allowed coughlin one more year in 2016 things probably end much differently. They didn’t.
Gettleman is capable. Move on.
Does Eli ever deserve some of the blame for when the team struggles? He’s a very good qb that shined in big moments but he needs help. Some of the struggles here were due to Eli not being extremely elite.
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You can debate his philosophy easily. WRs DBs and DL and ignore good players many times at positions of need. Over drafting guys like Marvin Austin, Sintim, Wilson etc. No eye for OL talent. Drafted one slightly above average OL Pugh in 10m years. Take your stars and your shine box and beat it
He’s gone and won’t get another GM job. He was a shitty cap manager too.
Chris Canty
Antrell Rolle
Jason Pierre Paul
Linval Joseph
Hakeem Nicks
Ahmad Bradshaw
Mario Manningham
Michael Boley
All high level players who contributed to SB 46 but yeah, he sucked, period.
QB Snacks, thanks great response