With the majority of the offseason complete, how do we feel?

in shells and ahorts. Going into the offaeason I felt very confident on paper how we’ll fare. As previously stated, the big key is Shurmur as PC. That will positively affect the O and by extension, the D. I’m rarin’ to see what Bettcher does with the D..

I’ll get my first glimpse of this team during the preseason games. Looking forward to it

the fact that he got as many wins as he did is remarkable. Trent Richardson, Colt McCoy, brandon weeden? They had Josh Gordon and a few decent o-lineman and basically nothing on defense.

I like Shurmer a lot so far. He actually answers questions, and has shown a willingness to self-scout. McAdoo was a pompous ass who had no business being more than a position coach.

is the same as answering the thread title. There can be an infinite amount of things people would have done differently.

My biggest thing is that the culture needed to change, we needed to get a coach who is great at working with QBs, and we needed to fix the OL. Now, could there have been things that I wouldhave done differently? I'm sure. However, the main goals were achieved. The amount of overhaul on this team was drastic. Most will say we should have drafted a QB in the first and I get it but there is no way of truly knowing if that would have been the right move even if a few years go by. What I do know is that I believe Eli is better than he has played with the supporting cast and coaching staff and system over the last few years. I think it makes sense to see what we can get out of him while Webb and Lauletta develop. We have the coach to do that so I am fairly confident in one of those 2 developing.

I am interested in this defense as well. I think we need another corner and pass rusher but we have numbers at pass rusher so hopefully we have enough guys on the roster to do that. With CB we have numbers but there is a clear gap between Jenkiks and everybody else and maybe even another big gap from Apple to everybody else. I bet we will be looking at a guy like DRC, a player to trade for, or a guy that gets cut. We could also look at the supplemental draft too but you never know with that.

But, overall, I couldn't have asked for a better offseason. Shurmur is not the sexy hire but imo ye is exactly what we needed. He is a no nonsense coach who relates to players, uses a player's strengths, minimizes their weaknesses, and has the experience needed, both good and bad. The Maras finally made the tough decisions and cut a lot of dead weight that us fans with our limited knowledge thought was best (time to give a new HC and GM a chance while getting rid of Marc Ross who a few people with knowledge have heen saying he was lazy for years). I hate calling for people's jobs and think it is easier to work with people through tough times but the tough times lasted way too long amd there was no improvement.

I also disagreed with firing the whole scouting department like some have suggested. When there is bad leadership that doesn't mean that you throw out the baby with the bath water. I'm sure these scouts work their asses off. I doubt I'd ever question a scout's work ethic. It is too hard to get a job like that, the hours suck, the pay probably sucls too, and it is a thankless job. These guys didn't need to he let go imo but rather just redirected. They needed better guidance and direction on what to emphasize. It seemes like Gettleman took care of that immediately when he was here. He had a conference call with enough people and gave them the guidance they needed. I loved this draft. Obviously, only time will tell but I believe most of the time you can get a good understanding of a draft immediately. You cannot predict the future but you can evaluate if you got good value. Imo, we did and then some. My biggest goal for this draft was to nail these picks regardless of position. The one thing we couldn't have was to miss on our first round pick again among the other picks. We needed to end that drought. Missing on guys like Wilson, Pugh (not really a miss but not a guy we kept), Apple (jury is still out but we got nothing from him last year), Flowers (I hope he turns it around but he was a horrendous pick to date), etc. No team is good enough to overcome years of bad drafting. So, just get me guys that contribute and play well. Lets start there.

I'm not crazy about Shula as our OC but I'm not concerned about him either with Shurmur having a big hand in the O. I love the Bettcher hire. I can see a lot of games this year where pur defense dominates but I can also see a lot of games where we give up a bunch of points because of the aggresive style. With that said, I'd rather go down swinging than just being a punching bag. Nothing is worse than methodically getting beat for first down after first down after first down and giving up points. Not only are you giving up points but your offense cannot get into a rhythm. Hopefully our ST improve as well.

with what the Giants organization has done. Being a Mets fan while making a comparison of the 2 teams, I cant emphasize it enough on how nice it is to see a team with a plan and execute accordingly.

I think the wildcard to everything hinges on OBJ contract and the new offensive line.

One area that needs to sort itself out soon is the kicking position.

Last I'm most excited to see what Engram/Ellison combo will do this year.

I feel more confident going into this season than I did last season. The reason for that is Shurmur and Bettcher. I wasn't sold on McAdoo last year. I was worried about the offensive line but this year's line appears to be much stronger. If Halapio can be a serviceable starting center then the depth should be solid with Jones and Wheeler having more experience.

I am still very concerned about the CB and WR depth. If Jenkins goes down for an extended period the defense will be in trouble. As for WR the Giants need one of these young WR's to step up and produce. Engram will take some of the pressure off of the WR's but they still need a decent possession type.

re-sign DRC, but I know that ship has probably sailed.

In comment 13998126 CMicks3110 said:

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re-sign DRC, but I know that ship has probably sailed.

I am hoping that the Giants select CB Sam Beal in the supplemental draft. He reportedly is a 1st round talent. Adding him would make me feel better about the CB position along with Grant Haley in the slot.

But this time we do - I'm very worried about Apple (but hope I'm as wrong as I was about Collins, just before he became an ALL PRO).

WR - They didn't even try to get better in the draft, which was ver surprising.

I'm happy where the Giants are today. I like the new staff and players. I'd hope to get DRC back and sign OBJ once he proves himself healthy.

Not saying much from where they were last year.

I hope they finally resolve the OL mystery.....which will make Eli better and hopefully with Barkley can turn running game into a strength

I like the coaches and enjoy Gettlmen's style....

So will see how it goes

Your items 2, 4 & 5 were never considerations of any poster on BBI with a brain...

In comment 13998114 CMicks3110 said:

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the fact that he got as many wins as he did is remarkable. Trent Richardson, Colt McCoy, brandon weeden? They had Josh Gordon and a few decent o-lineman and basically nothing on defense. I like Shurmer a lot so far. He actually answers questions, and has shown a willingness to self-scout. McAdoo was a pompous ass who had no business being more than a position coach.

His top receiver in Cleveland was Greg Little.

but I've caught the injury bug. Whenever I start daydreaming about the explosive Giant offense finally commanding respect again, I see OBJ or Barkley, or Solder or Flowers or Hernandez, being carried off the field.

And they never seem to make it back, at least not the way that they played before the injury.

Teams don't carry much depth around anymore.

I'm going to refrain from beating the drum this year....

Quote:

I'm going to refrain from beating the drum this year....

Me too.

I feel great.

But, you know, I've been following the Giants since 1970. They fuck things up a lot. So I'm always cautiously optimistic. Very, very cautiously.

Besides, the Giants' offseason is the least of my worries right now.

Season with a win over Jacksonville.

I like Gettlemen, and Shurmur. I wanted Darnold, but maybe Webb is the guy, and who can argue against Barkley.

Good off season, should be a competitive season

Good post Sean.

and really like the Shurmur hire. I just am worried about the ownership in that the franchise has been a mess since they won the Superbowl.

McAdoo was the handpicked guy head coach of the Giants when he was hired as offensive coordinator. We saw what a good decision that was.

The benching of Eli Manning was one of the worst jobs of running a franchise I have ever seen. To make a decision like that and then instantly cave to fan reaction is not something I want to see from the ownership. Know what your plan is and stick to it.

because there are too many unknowns.....

Shurm? Has to be better than Mac, but how much better?

Can Bettcher, take a bunch of guys with issues, add new players, and teach them a new system, and have them ready for the opening game?

Has DG given Hunter the necessary ingredients to an OL, and does Hunter have the right recipe?

There are so many holes in the dam, every one could not be properly fixed, can the patchwork on the rest hold?

There is no way, we win this division.....WC is the only hope....to win that, other teams have to falter, and we have to get some breaks, mainly, not get any "breaks in the roster" during the season, because we have no quality depth, only bodies......

That being said, if the draft picks and free agents pan out.... if the coaching staff can coach and create confidence.... if Eli can show that it was the players surrounding him and not him, these past few seasons.....if OBj is OBj again......if this team can develop a winning attitude......if we get a few surprises in the schedule(teams thought to be tough, go through what we did last season)......and one of the most important elements, if we can stay away from major injuries, this team could make the playoffs, especially if both sides of the ball improve as the season goes on.....

This is a fragile league....there are no dominant teams anymore......lack of skill players, injuries, free agency, scheduling, etc., can turn the course of teams over the long haul of the season......that's why some teams make major advances in one season....not just because they have improved dramatically, but also, because other teams have faltered.....this is the new NFL.....

tepid for the future. If one of these two young QB's aren't the long term solution, than we may be facing a long run of mediocrity.

In comment 13998506 Doomster said:

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because there are too many unknowns..... Shurm? Has to be better than Mac, but how much better? Can Bettcher, take a bunch of guys with issues, add new players, and teach them a new system, and have them ready for the opening game? Has DG given Hunter the necessary ingredients to an OL, and does Hunter have the right recipe? There are so many holes in the dam, every one could not be properly fixed, can the patchwork on the rest hold? There is no way, we win this division.....WC is the only hope....to win that, other teams have to falter, and we have to get some breaks, mainly, not get any "breaks in the roster" during the season, because we have no quality depth, only bodies...... That being said, if the draft picks and free agents pan out.... if the coaching staff can coach and create confidence.... if Eli can show that it was the players surrounding him and not him, these past few seasons.....if OBj is OBj again......if this team can develop a winning attitude......if we get a few surprises in the schedule(teams thought to be tough, go through what we did last season)......and one of the most important elements, if we can stay away from major injuries, this team could make the playoffs, especially if both sides of the ball improve as the season goes on..... This is a fragile league....there are no dominant teams anymore......lack of skill players, injuries, free agency, scheduling, etc., can turn the course of teams over the long haul of the season......that's why some teams make major advances in one season....not just because they have improved dramatically, but also, because other teams have faltered.....this is the new NFL.....

Quote:

Shurm? Has to be better than Mac, but how much better? Can Bettcher, take a bunch of guys with issues, add new players, and teach them a new system, and have them ready for the opening game?

Just in playcalling, Shurmur will be exponentially better than McAdoo..Bettcher? He did that with the Cards

which I really didn't have last season. I believe the OL has been upgraded but still needs talent. The DL I'm sure can stop the run but really don't see a pass rush. Yes I know that might come from the LB. I just don't know enough about this group yet.So for me the pass rush is huge question mark.DBs is a big question mark.Do the Giants have enough talent at CB or safety ? They look short on talent at CB now what if one of their CB goes down.This could get ugly fast.Same thing with their safeties. With so many questions at CB,safety and with the pass rush Bettcher has a lot of work in front of him

But that should be the answer following 3-13. This will be a heavily scrutinized year given what transpired last year and the decision to forgo a qb for Barkley, in hopes of getting one last run out of Eli. I am not sure the front office and coaching staff will get a lot of leeway from the fans, nor do I think should be the case.

To me, there are still a lot of question marks. Presumably the offensive line will be better. However, we don't know how the rookie guard will take to the NFL, if the guard from the Jags will be any good or if Flowers will hold up at right tackle.

We do not know if the Giants have a legit outside receiving threat outside of Odell, or whether Odell will even look the same post injury. We do not know how Barkley will take to the NFL, will he be another Reggie Bush or have the same impact as Zeke?

The Defense looks weaker on paper. Do we have enough pass rush with OV and a lot of unknowns? Who will be the legit DB opposite Jack Rabbit? Does an upgraded LB core do enough to cover for other potential weaknesses?

To echo what one poster said, if one of the two young qbs isn't a legitimate answer, it will be a run of mediocrity for the team. Also, to the OP, you could draft a mid round qb for a decade straight and never find anything more than a backup, it's a complete shot in the dark plan given the low hit rate from those rounds.

I think there is a lot that could potentially go wrong or be simply medicore, which to me points to 6-10 or 7-9.

And I wanted a QB in the draft but there is no denying the upgrade across the board with this team. New GM and coach. Both first rate guys. Though I wanted the draft to go differently they certainly got a hugely talented player at #2. The FA acquisitions were strong as well. I don't see how you could have hoped for more. They need a few players to step up but are positioned for a good season, I believe.

show us. We've had enough happy talk last year.

Gettlemen is here because he was part of the family and knows how to say "yes John". Show us.

Shurmer has been in the league 20 years and had one HC gig where he crashed an burned. You guys can make all the excuses you want but he failed and got canned and quickly. The Eagles refused to hire him as HC. He went to the Vikings and managed the 11th ranked offense, whoopdy shit. The Vikings won games behind their defense- all Shurmer had to do was not screw it up. He won't have that luxury here. Show us.

Bettcher might be good and he might not. The AZ defense has been worse each of the last 3 seasons. The team got rid of some of the dreck at linebacker but also tossed out JPP. Did they bring in better players or just more dreck. Either way Bettcher has his work cut out for him. Show us.

In comment 13998660 HomerJones45 said:

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show us. We've had enough happy talk last year. Gettlemen is here because he was part of the family and knows how to say "yes John". Show us. Shurmer has been in the league 20 years and had one HC gig where he crashed an burned. You guys can make all the excuses you want but he failed and got canned and quickly. The Eagles refused to hire him as HC. He went to the Vikings and managed the 11th ranked offense, whoopdy shit. The Vikings won games behind their defense- all Shurmer had to do was not screw it up. He won't have that luxury here. Show us. Bettcher might be good and he might not. The AZ defense has been worse each of the last 3 seasons. The team got rid of some of the dreck at linebacker but also tossed out JPP. Did they bring in better players or just more dreck. Either way Bettcher has his work cut out for him. Show us.

Agree with this post 100%. Sick of all the flowery talk. Let's see the change. They put a lot of stock into the next two seasons at the expense of the future. Lets see two seasons of legit super bowl contention. Let's see a top 5 offense that puts up points at will. Let's see a top 10 defense that gets off the field on third down. That's what ownership and all of the eterna optimists are selling the realist fans. Let's see it.

1. McAdoo is no longer coaching this team.
2. Saquon Barkley
3. Return to the 3-4 defensive alignment and the acquisition of players that fit that alignment
4. A more talented left tackle.

How much better remains to be seen. But they are definitely BETTER last years team. Considering the fact they won only three games last year that is not saying much. We will see.

In comment 13998511 aimrocky said:

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tepid for the future. If one of these two young QB's aren't the long term solution, than we may be facing a long run of mediocrity.

I’ve seen this take a lot lately and wonder if fans would feel this same way if there weren’t any qbs of note in the last draft? I wonder if fans would be as obsessed with the qb future here if the giants didn’t pass on four touted qbs.....I highly doubt it.

Eli likely has two- three years in him if not more. That’s a long time yet I always hear this constant worry about the future. This is overstated in my view. Are we going to be able to enjoy the moment here or is the qb debate going to be drummed up every time josh Allen or Rosen or darnold smile the right way in training camp? The qb debate here has really taken on a life of its own.

This wasn’t meant to single this post out as much as you can clearly see so many fans are quick to bring up the future every time the giants are brought up.

Just walk up to a random Giants fan and say hey the giants are gonna be good this year... and I guarantee you half of them will bring up 2020.

season.

ready for the pads to come on and the season to begin. Then I let you know.

I'm usually pretty optimistic about the Giants, so who knows, I could be totally wrong about this team. I was last year.. but I also didn't know we'd have so many key guys hurt or that McAdoo would go from a promising young coach to a complete turd in a one year span.

Anyway, I think we did a lot of good things. I think Bettcher will get more out of this defense than Spags did last year. I think addressing the OL was an absolute must - we added a legit LT, we added a guy who should be able to hold down a OG spot in Omameh, and I think Big Willy Hernandez is going to be a starter from day 1.

We'll have to see what we get out of Flowers, but it won't surprise me to see him have a decent year @ RT. Still not sure what we're going to do @ OC.. I'm only mildly confident in Jones.

Love the weapons, though. Beckham, Barkley, Engram, Shep... just protect Eli and I think he'll look much, much better this year. He's going to surprise people.

We still have holes...but I loved adding Ogie. He's a leader and that needed to be addressed. I think Bettcher will get more out of Vernon. I think Eli Apple has talent and can rebound. I think Jenkins was a top 3-5 CB in the sport in 2016 and if he's healthy going into this season, I expect that again.

I expect Landon Collins to be an elite safety again.

There are a lot of reasons to be optimistic. I think Pat Shurmur is a really great offensive coach and I think he's going to be great for Eli.

Injuries will happen, things will go wrong... but if we can keep obj healthy, keep those key guys on the field and keep Eli upright, I think we'll be in the mix.

Dallas' #1 WR is Allen Hurns... and I really don't think much of Prescott.

The Eagles are obviously going to be really tough. Defending champs. We'll see when Wentz returns and what he looks like when he does.

Washington never scares me.

Teams in this league flip records all the time. We won't go 13-3... but we can win 9-10 games if things fall into place.

I think Saquon is going to be fucking awesome.

I'm looking forward to it.

I never believed the SB hype.

Before I anoint myself as a sage, though, I never expected 3 wins. I expected the Giants to regress because I thought the other top teams were all improving themselves more than we had.

This year, I appreciate any skepticism about the new coaches and GM, time will tell. I think the team will be stronger fundamentally and will improve a lot. but that has to be shown on the field.

I do not think they will be really competitive, the gap with the top teams is just too large, then with the first year in a new offense, a new defense, and it will take some time to come together even if they are making good personnel moves. I'd be happy with a mediocre finish following a late season surge, and give the new coaches another year to accumulate and break in new toys.

I can't sit here and say that I am wowed about the Coaches
but Schumer seems to get the most out of his players and
Cards were good defensively . Just putting last season into
the vault I am anxious to see Barkley and see how the defense jells and Offense gets the system down . If we have a middle of the pack or better defense then I think 9-10
wins are possible . Key guys like Apple whomever wins the
FS spot . Can Flowers improve and solidify the RT Spot .
I am confident Eli has a good 2-3 Seasons left .

I said they’d be a better team but the record wouldn’t reflect that as I figured 9/10 wins. This year? I know they won’t be god awful. But I don’t believe they’re a playoff team. The NFC is absolutely loaded. It’s not an easy schedule. My gut is saying we go 6-10 or 7-9. Moving forward I think the NYG become one of those teams where the roster is solid but folks will say “if only they had a QB....”

a wider GM search. They interviewed four people only one with no Previous connection to th team. Thought they would have met with some of the highly touted GM prospects. And given DG’s age and health it’s fair to wonder how long he’ll be in the role.

I’m going in with an open mind but not expecting much

I could never have imagined how bad we'd be in 2017, not coming off an 11 - 5 and playoffs year. We just sank and stunk.

Last year's "locker room mindset" had to be terrible and I think its safe to say the players didn't RESPECT McAdoo. Some players disliked Tom Coughlin back in the day but I think they respected him.

Shurmer has the respect of the players, I believe that.

In 4 weeks we will have more and more to talk about. Go Giants!

Right tackle and what will defense look like.

Thought it very interesting that Bettcher talked about blitzes being based not just on getting "free runners" but people beating one on one matchups. I feel very confident that system will benefit - Harrison, Tomlinson, and Hill. Additionally, they appear to have a bit of depth on the DL so maybe we won't see that performance drop-off during substitutions.

RE: offense - if right tackle issue is resolved - this could be best Giant offense ever.

game left. No running game, injured wr corps, poor pass protection, immobile QB -of course he's going to struggle. And the talk about getting rid of Eli so team could get a "clean start" was always asinine to me.

now hope for the best and see...

.

In comment 13999089 baadbill said:

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.

The most positive post you’ve made in years..😎😎..Love ya buddy

It’s such a New Day I don’t expect much can’t think of more than one player who played really well last year and now everything has been changed. It was proven the talent level was not what we believed from top to bottom but it’s a New Day. Think Barkley should help the offense but it takes time for rookies to gain their true balance in the NFL. I don’t believe in Eli been there done that way to inconsistent is he, he may be the key but the lock could just be broken. The early schedule is not a help and these guys needed a break not a big challenge week after week for the first six games. On defense same New Day for everyone with little time to learn the full schemes required things can look great in shorts but shocking in pads for a half, full season or more. Don’t expect to make the playoffs not sure if 4-7 wins are possible or just let the season be what ever it will be so as not to feel disappointment.

In comment 13999071 bc4life said:

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RE: offense - if right tackle issue is resolved - this could be best Giant offense ever.

I'm not convinced yet that the only issue on the line is right tackle. will nate solder keep up his performance with new coaches and teammates? hernandez looks like a beast but he's a rookie - how will he learn and adapt to the nfl game? how will jones fare in his first full year as the starter? will omameh be an upgrade over fluker and/or Jerry? how is the depth when (not if) one or more starters are injured for either a short or long duration? rome and offensive lines are not built in a day.

let's see what it looks like on the field, and then they'll get another crack next offseason at upgrading the right side of the OL, and adding more parts on defense.

This offseason. They seem to have had a plan all along and they have stuck to it. Whether you agree with what their QB decisions or not, you can't say the Giants didnt have a plan or lacked conviction there.

They clearly want to get back to a balanced offense, and every move they have made seems to be pointing to that. You werent going to fix the whole team in one offseason, but they Giants could have 5 new starters on the OL, and a potential star running back. Those changes alone could help the whole team.

Going into next year, you should have a better idea what the QB situation looks like. You can also focus on the DB, OL, and pass rush to build on this nice core. This is a very young team. The cap situation also will be clearing up, depending on what happens with OBJ and Collins.

My usual optimistic-self thinks this team is talented enough to be a 8-10 win team, which is a MASSIVE jump from last year. Depending on injuries, I think they have an outside shot at the playoffs.

Jones, Greco, Jerry, & Wheeler, and Becton - reasonable depth. Jerry too inconsistent to rely in as starter, Greco can play, Wheeler is improving, and Becton we'll see. I think they'll be okay.

filled multiple roles for Bellichek. Now he's going to be unable to adapt to a team team. Don't follow the logic.

Team lost a lot of close games last year. They were a 3-13 team but it's not like there was no talent to build on.

retooled their OLine pretty good last offseason.

and, consistent with the odds, went on to fail to make the playoffs in any of those seasons:

------ 0-2 starts ------
2013 (7-9; no playoffs)
2014 (6-10; no playoffs)
2015 (6-10; no playoffs)
2017 (3-13; no playoffs)

have been a bit more ready for the season to start than Eli & Co. over the years...

At GM HC and DC and good rational drafting.

The players should be excited and getting ready.

Wooohoo!

We haven't had pads on yet so that gives us an idea of how early it is to make any judgements about this roster the organization has begun building.

That said I like the philosophy behind it and almost all of what they've done in acquiring personnel makes sense given what we believe their plan will be on both offense and defense.

The biggest concern is cornerback where we're too thin by far. They're scouting the supplemental draft and perhaps fortuitously there is some talent at the position worth a look. One thing is certain they need to improve this position group. As it stands now one injury and we're in trouble.

Now we look to training camp and see how the product looks when we get pads on and then play a live opponent. Personally I believe the team will improve but the schedule is extremely unforgiving and imo it will be year two of the Shurmur era when this team makes the post season. Let's hope we stay healthy and get a few calls and breaks and maybe it can happen sooner.

It feels like Christmas day. Feel bad for Mini- Mac. Maybe he can turn into mini-pat?

we had one more CB, one more OL and one more WR.

We are one OBJ injury away from teams loading the box to stop Barkley leaving Eli with little to throw to just like last year. So yeah, it would be nice to pickup a productive veteran at WR before September.

Meanwhile, the most critical element is how Eli will play this year. He has not performed well lately and we said it was the sub par OL or the lack of running game. I think everyone feels that we did an adequate job of addressing that. We need him to pull it together now.