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Was the 2000 Super Bowl season a bust?

Matt in SGS : 6/24/2018 8:30 pm
If you have ever been to MetLife and looked at the Giants trophy room, you will notice a few things. The Giants heavily feature the 4 Super Bowl Championship teams (as they should). There are pictures around the stadium featuring the 1986, 1990, 2007 and 2011 teams, and the 4 trophies in your face.

But noticeably absent is any real focus on the 2000 team, which won the NFC Championship blowing out the Vikings, and then were lucky not to get shut out by Baltimore in the Super Bowl.

As I recall, one of the criticisms of Jim Fassel when he was fired was that Fassel used to wear his NFC Championship ring around the Giants offices, which didn't endear him to the ownership. You don't normally think of Mara in the same breath as a George Steinbrenner (ie- championship or bust), but it appears there is something to that.

The question for BBI'ers, when I go back and I look at some of the playoff runs the Giants had in the 1980s when they didn't get to the Super Bowl, it is actually looked at more fondly than the 2000 run which ended in a Super Bowl loss. Should the Giants do more to recognize the 2000 team, or are they more or less relegated to persona non grata in Giants history?
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RE: Prior to the Jets-Giants  
bradshaw44 : 6/24/2018 11:38 pm : link
In comment 13998998 MookGiants said:
Quote:
christmas eve game in 2011, the Jets covered up all 4 Giants Super Bowl logos, including Super Bowl 35.

The 2000 NFC Championship trophy is in the Legacy Club I believe.

I'm not sure what else they should really do to honor that team though. 7 years later they actually won another Super Bowl and also 11 years later. 10 and 14 years prior they won as well.

I dont think the Giants act like that team doesn't exist, but I'm not sure how you truly celebrate that team as an organization.

As a fan I look back on that team with fond memories, but i dont think the Giants can do much to honor that team than they've done


I was thinking along these lines as well. I would ask, what did the celebration and portrayals of the 2000 teams run look like BEFORE XLII and XLVI? Maybe they were more prominently featured when we only had two trophies that were prior to 2000. Then once XLII came along you make that the focal point. Once XLVI happened, I can see why 2000 gets pushed to the back of the line. Not only was it no longer the most recent success, but it was an after thought to two of the 4 amazing super bowl runs in franchise history.

I’m willing to guess that the first few years after XXXV there was probably more hoopla.
RE: the BS holding call in the Super Bowl changed the whole damn  
Paulie Walnuts : 6/24/2018 11:43 pm : link
In comment 13998981 gtt350 said:
Quote:
game
yep
We would have beaten the Raiders  
Paulie Walnuts : 6/24/2018 11:44 pm : link
shame
To this fan, yes.  
Big Blue '56 : 6/25/2018 6:04 am : link
I will never rewatch that fantastic rout of the Vikings again because of that utter embarrassment two weeks later.
I don’t think  
Les in TO : 6/25/2018 6:23 am : link
Most teams go out of their way to honour conference champions. Other than recent championship starved teams like the Toronto Maple Leafs who recognize the 93-94 version of the team that had a great run.

The 2000 season was amazing maybe in 2020 they will do something at halftime to honour the team and the nfc championship but it would not be expected
The 2000 team got much further than anyone expected  
ZogZerg : 6/25/2018 7:26 am : link
They were underdogs against the Vikings.
And major dogs against the Ravens. No team was beating the Ravens in the Superbowl that year.

I don't see how anyone could consider that season a bust. Pretty silly if they do.
RE: The 2000 team got much further than anyone expected  
Big Blue '56 : 6/25/2018 7:57 am : link
In comment 13999059 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
They were underdogs against the Vikings.
And major dogs against the Ravens. No team was beating the Ravens in the Superbowl that year.

I don't see how anyone could consider that season a bust. Pretty silly if they do.


How about this: Not a bust given that we won the NFC, but one I don’t even talk about with anyone because of the choke job in the SB..Maybe the Ravens were going to win regardless, but their performance was to me, cowardly. The coaching staff didn’t do their homework. If they had, they would have used the brilliant offensive game plans of the Jets and Jaguars who gave the Ravens FITS with their offenses. Two weeks to prepare and THAT’S the O plan they came up with, not to mention no halftime afjustments whatsoever based on their continued cowering performance.
Giants got as much  
bc4life : 6/25/2018 8:09 am : link
mileage out of that team as they could.

Of course, Baltimore was going to win that game. The Giants only chance was to keep things close was gone early in that game. The interception called back and Shawn Williams blown coverage against Stokely doomed any slim chance they had. Could not allow them to score first. But for the TD KO return - would have been over much sooner.

Giant offense was decent but certainly not dominant. Lack of speed at wr was a serious limitation. Raven defense was like playing with a booby-trapped ball. Every time Giants offense touched the ball, something bad happened.
Not at all!!!  
Rick in Dallas : 6/25/2018 8:23 am : link
Only 2 teams make the SB. Baltimore had one of the all time great defenses in 2000.
Francesa mentioned this in a Jets rant during the Rex era  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 6/25/2018 8:38 am : link
That the Jets celebrated two championship losses barely acknowledge one of the greatest Championship game wins of all-time. As someone who was there and considers it one of the great days in my fandom, I think there's isn't a simple answer.

I think the Maras are setting a high standard, but at the same time it seems tinged with the missed opportunities of that Super Bowl and the entire Fassel era (not to mention Gentleman Jim's off-field activities). I think the Giants remain embarrassed by the defeat and that it conflicted with the franchise identity as "tough" which was later reflected in the TC hire.

The season wasn't a bust but when you look back at 2002 and some of the Fassel era seasons, they missed a lot of opportunities to be a preeminent franchise even before TC.
BB56  
ZogZerg : 6/25/2018 8:41 am : link
Giants could have schemed all they wanted and they weren't winning that game. Ravens D was one of the best ever.

Maybe it could have been a little close, but I don't that really matters.
RE: Francesa mentioned this in a Jets rant during the Rex era  
Big Blue '56 : 6/25/2018 8:43 am : link
In comment 13999082 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
That the Jets celebrated two championship losses barely acknowledge one of the greatest Championship game wins of all-time. As someone who was there and considers it one of the great days in my fandom, I think there's isn't a simple answer.

I think the Maras are setting a high standard, but at the same time it seems tinged with the missed opportunities of that Super Bowl and the entire Fassel era (not to mention Gentleman Jim's off-field activities). I think the Giants remain embarrassed by the defeat and that it conflicted with the franchise identity as "tough" which was later reflected in the TC hire.

The season wasn't a bust but when you look back at 2002 and some of the Fassel era seasons, they missed a lot of opportunities to be a preeminent franchise even before TC.


My feelings about Fassel are well known and need not be revisited. Much of the blame goes to Accorsi. Notwithstanding The no-brainer Eli trade(regardless of who blinked first), EA was mediocre at best. I thought he was awful on the whole, but that’s just me. I’ll give him mediocre..:)..

Not bery helpful to JF, imv
No, not a bust  
JonC : 6/25/2018 8:45 am : link
but the SB performance combined with some absolute stinkers during the regular season say to me it was a good but flawed playoff team that benefited from the Rams and Saints getting KO'd in the first two rounds.

To me, it looked like the offense laid down in the SB and that's never left me from that team. Perhaps others in the franchise feel the same way.
Winning the last two SBs  
JonC : 6/25/2018 8:49 am : link
has taken a lot of the sting out of the NYG teams that I felt had a real shot at the ring and left it on the table (1988, 1989) but the blown opportunity in 2008 hasn't left me yet.
I disagree with the nothing to lose aspect for Fassel  
jcn56 : 6/25/2018 9:03 am : link
with the benefit of hindsight knowing what the rest of his career turned out to be, it seems like he took a no risk chance.

At the time, though, he had plenty to lose. Sure he would likely have been fired if they didn't make the playoffs. But imagine having a public statement like that on your record to go along with a firing - it would basically have been career suicide, and made him a laughing stock.

(again, his career trajectory afterwards isn't known at that point)

The 2000 team was a lot of fun - and they definitely overachieved. If Mara was pissed about not winning it - after his father stood at the podium poking fun at the pundits calling them the worst team to go to the Super Bowl - that's on him. They played over their heads until they ran into one of the best defenses of all time and the wheels fell off. I'm sure Fassel and co. would love a do over, and that they might have done slightly better, but I don't think any sane person has them coming close to winning, holding call or not.
RE: RE: Francesa mentioned this in a Jets rant during the Rex era  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 6/25/2018 9:08 am : link
In comment 13999086 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13999082 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:


Quote:


That the Jets celebrated two championship losses barely acknowledge one of the greatest Championship game wins of all-time. As someone who was there and considers it one of the great days in my fandom, I think there's isn't a simple answer.

I think the Maras are setting a high standard, but at the same time it seems tinged with the missed opportunities of that Super Bowl and the entire Fassel era (not to mention Gentleman Jim's off-field activities). I think the Giants remain embarrassed by the defeat and that it conflicted with the franchise identity as "tough" which was later reflected in the TC hire.

The season wasn't a bust but when you look back at 2002 and some of the Fassel era seasons, they missed a lot of opportunities to be a preeminent franchise even before TC.



My feelings about Fassel are well known and need not be revisited. Much of the blame goes to Accorsi. Notwithstanding The no-brainer Eli trade(regardless of who blinked first), EA was mediocre at best. I thought he was awful on the whole, but that’s just me. I’ll give him mediocre..:)..

Not bery helpful to JF, imv


BB56 - I agree with you, but the Maras made their decision on Fassel (and Accorsi) and so here we are. Accorsi got a do-over, Fassel did not.
No way that season was a bust.  
Section331 : 6/25/2018 9:22 am : link
Going into the season, I don't think anyone had us pegged to be a SB contender, and midway through the season, it was looking like we'd miss the playoffs altogether.

I would have preferred a better showing in the SB, but beating that Ravens team was always going to be a tall order, they matched up too well.
Not a bust @ all.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/25/2018 9:37 am : link
But the ending sucked. I comfort myself in that Ravens defense was an all time defense.
No, 2000 was not a bust...  
sb from NYT Forum : 6/25/2018 10:27 am : link
...but IMO 2002 sure was.
Ravens were the best team  
mittenedman : 6/25/2018 10:50 am : link
that year & deserved to win.

For me it just reminds how underrated that 2011 win @ Candlestick was. IMO that was the best D since the 2000 Ravens and Eli beat them on the road, in the rain on natural grass. And IIRC the 49ers ground crew made sure the field was a mudpit.

One of the great performances in NFL history and nobody outside Giants fans will ever remember.


It was a helluva ride with a rotten ending  
Greg from LI : 6/25/2018 10:55 am : link
But I can appreciate the ride anyway. That season was totally out of the blue. I don't agree with anyone who thinks that the Super Bowl ruined the entire season. A ruined season is more like 2008, when they were terrific most of the year and then fell apart late and lost in embarrassing fashion at home to a division rival.
JonC  
bc4life : 6/25/2018 12:03 pm : link
Burress doesn't busta acp in how own ass and Strahan stayed around for one more year. Had to like their chances, even without Strahan. With Burress out - Eli didn't have enough alternative weapons
bc  
JonC : 6/25/2018 12:05 pm : link
Yup, PB was an Eagle Killer to the extent I liked our chances of overcoming the pass rush flat out gassing as it did in the Wildcard game.
Oh horseshit  
Greg from LI : 6/25/2018 12:14 pm : link
Plax shooting himself threw the team into chaos because of the circus surrounding the whole story, but they were 10-1 with Plax doing next to nothing all year and went into Arizona and beat the Cardinals without him. If you want to say that the injuries as a whole degraded the team to the point that they couldn't win, fine, but the myth of Plax's magic presence is just that - myth. Plax's absence didn't make Eli throw a horrific interception to give the Eagles the ball on the goal line early in the game. It didn't make the defense unable to stop the Eagles on 3rd and 20. It didn't make them completely unable to convert 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1.
The Giants, were the 2nd best team in the NFL ....  
Manny in CA : 6/25/2018 12:15 pm : link

Even with their flea-bitten offensive line.

The Ravens had a generational best defense; they inflicted the punishment that any self respecting buzzsaw does ...

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/crossout/images/9/92/Buzzsaw.png/revision/latest?cb=20180124062357
Greg  
JonC : 6/25/2018 12:16 pm : link
Pro football is all about matchups, especially in the playoffs, and PB was an Eagle Killer with NYG. He could have been enough to swing the pendulum to win that game.
Weird shit tends to happen  
JonC : 6/25/2018 12:18 pm : link
to a team (and Eli) missing one of its main weapons, and to its confidence when playing a team that's had their number shows up ready to play. It has a tendency to trickle through out the team, eg this very game and the blown wildcard game in SF in 2002 as examples.
JonC  
bc4life : 6/25/2018 12:19 pm : link
He doesn't understand the role that Plax played not only as a weapon but as a distraction (e.g., drawing double coverages) allowing other receivers to get open.

One of the Eagles - corners, cannot remember which one (pro bowler) said it made a huge difference. But Greg knows better than him I suppose
The Raven game ruined 2000 for me  
Go Terps : 6/25/2018 12:21 pm : link
It's all I remember.

I was in New Orleans for Super Bowl 47 (Ravens-49ers) with a buddy of mine who is a huge Jets fan. The night before the game he said he'd do anything for the Jets to just get to a Super Bowl. I disagreed with his sentiment based on the Raven game...if you get to the Super Bowl, you'd better win it. It's a brutal game to lose.

Walking out of the Superdome amongst a bunch of dejected 49ers fans after the game, my buddy changed his mind. If you get there, you'd better win it. That's part of what makes that game so great.
Manny re: the OLine  
bc4life : 6/25/2018 12:22 pm : link
I remember Armistead quote about Parker, criticizing his physique. Something to the effect of how he was amazed that Parker could ball the way he did "with a body like that".

One of Giant OL players said after the game - playing against Goose & Adams was like being in a phone booth with a grizzly bear.
RE: Ravens game  
bc4life : 6/25/2018 12:25 pm : link
Again - getting the interception called back because of defensive hold call on Hamilton and Shawn Williams on Stokely poor coverage doomed any chance they had of pulling out that game
giving credence to the 2000 team  
GiantsLaw : 6/25/2018 12:42 pm : link
would result in giving credence to Fassel, and that seems to be not allowed.
I take my que  
joeinpa : 6/25/2018 12:44 pm : link
From Amani Tooker who was furious with the coaches for how unprepared Giants were for that game

I m with the Mara s, not much use for that season
'08 bothers me much more.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/25/2018 12:51 pm : link
That team was rolling along until Plax idiotically shot himself & the defense started wearing down. That said, if Plax plays vs. the Eagles, that's a huge difference. And if we beat the Eagles, I think we beat Arizona & we're in the Super Bowl.
.  
arcarsenal : 6/25/2018 1:16 pm : link
I still wonder what would have happened with the 2010 team if they had made the playoffs. I felt like that team had a run in them. But, the game we shall not speak of obviously de-railed that.

I thank my lucky stars every fucking day that we won the Super Bowl the very next season. Otherwise that would still sting way more than it does now.
Can’t have it both ways-  
Sean : 6/25/2018 1:24 pm : link
numerous people here rip the Giants for so few playoff seasons/playoff wins. How can you run with that narrative & then say 2000 was a bust?

The Patriots have lost 3 SB’s under Belichick/Brady, the Steelers have lost SB’s, Broncos, etc.

We have been incredibly spoiled to have a 4-1 record in SB’s, it’s in the top tier of the NFL. 5-0 in NFC title games!

2000 was a fun ride which I look back fondly on. Hell, we beat the Eagles in the playoffs & 3 times that year.
RE: .  
Big Blue '56 : 6/25/2018 1:25 pm : link
In comment 13999298 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I still wonder what would have happened with the 2010 team if they had made the playoffs. I felt like that team had a run in them. But, the game we shall not speak of obviously de-railed that.

I thank my lucky stars every fucking day that we won the Super Bowl the very next season. Otherwise that would still sting way more than it does now.


Interesting how the ‘’97 playoff meltdown against the Vikes with 90 seconds left and up by 10 (not to mention leading 22-3 at halftime) still, IF I EVER THINK ABOUT IT, is a more devastating loss than the ‘89 Flipper game and the 2002 meltdown against the Niners. But that’s just me. Yes, I agree, we could have made real noise in 2010
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 6/25/2018 1:30 pm : link
In comment 13999306 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13999298 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


I still wonder what would have happened with the 2010 team if they had made the playoffs. I felt like that team had a run in them. But, the game we shall not speak of obviously de-railed that.

I thank my lucky stars every fucking day that we won the Super Bowl the very next season. Otherwise that would still sting way more than it does now.



Interesting how the ‘’97 playoff meltdown against the Vikes with 90 seconds left and up by 10 (not to mention leading 22-3 at halftime) still, IF I EVER THINK ABOUT IT, is a more devastating loss than the ‘89 Flipper game and the 2002 meltdown against the Niners. But that’s just me. Yes, I agree, we could have made real noise in 2010


Ugh.. Chris Calloway. Still remember that like it was yesterday. Terrible loss.
i odnt think so  
BlackburnBalledOut : 6/25/2018 1:54 pm : link
this is a top flight sports franchise. althouhg the 2000 NFC title game is an all time great game in NYG history, im not one to celebrate anything short of a SB victory. Close doesnt do me any satisfaction, especially the way that game (SB35) turned out.

That game should be remembered for the Ravens cappping off one of the greatest defensive teams in NFL history, not the Giants getting there in spectacular fashion just to get their doors blown off.

All hail Ron Dixon.
If Fassel wasn't allowed to "celebrate 2nd place" around there,  
Mr. Bungle : 6/25/2018 2:07 pm : link
then the franchise can't, either.
I look back fondly on the Fassel era  
Sneakers O'toole : 6/25/2018 3:48 pm : link
after the shitshow that was most of the rest of the 90s era Giants.

I'm of the generation that grew up with the 80s teams, and then the crap that followed. Tge Fassel era brought back some respectability to the team. 2000 was a good year, and that playoff run was great.

And we did lose to one of the greatest defenses of the modern era, even if it took me a long time as a fan to get over it and see it that way.

That team has a special place in my heart
I look back fondly on the Fassel era  
Sneakers O'toole : 6/25/2018 3:55 pm : link
after the shitshow that was most of the rest of the 90s era Giants.

I'm of the generation that grew up with the 80s teams, and then the crap that followed. Tge Fassel era brought back some respectability to the team. 2000 was a good year, and that playoff run was great.

And we did lose to one of the greatest defenses of the modern era, even if it took me a long time as a fan to get over it and see it that way.

That team has a special place in my heart
We had some great coaches on that team  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 6/25/2018 4:08 pm : link
Peyton and Fox, both have been really successful elsewhere.
RE: I look back fondly on the Fassel era  
Greg from LI : 6/25/2018 4:45 pm : link
In comment 13999437 Sneakers O'toole said:
Quote:
after the shitshow that was most of the rest of the 90s era Giants.

I'm of the generation that grew up with the 80s teams, and then the crap that followed. Tge Fassel era brought back some respectability to the team. 2000 was a good year, and that playoff run was great.

And we did lose to one of the greatest defenses of the modern era, even if it took me a long time as a fan to get over it and see it that way.

That team has a special place in my heart


I'm with you there. After the disaster that was Handley and Reeves, the Fassel teams were an improvement despite their flaws.
Funny thing is  
Sneakers O'toole : 6/25/2018 4:53 pm : link
I was excited by the Reeves hire. Boy was I wrong there
It was a great hire....for one year  
Greg from LI : 6/25/2018 4:56 pm : link
1993 was similar to 2000 - a wonderful ride with a lousy ending. It was just a couple of round earlier, that's all.
It started out well  
Sneakers O'toole : 6/25/2018 5:03 pm : link
for Broncos East ☺

I was a rabid Giants fan during the Fassel years.  
Mr. Bungle : 6/25/2018 5:20 pm : link
But they only won a playoff game in one of his seven seasons. (Two one-and-dones otherwise.) Pretty disappointing, even though they never really had an elite roster during his tenure.

Overall, it's pretty hard to believe that only four Giants seasons since 1991 (27 years!) have included playoff wins. That's kind of shitty.
RE: It was a great hire....for one year  
Mr. Bungle : 6/25/2018 5:24 pm : link
In comment 13999499 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
1993 was similar to 2000 - a wonderful ride with a lousy ending. It was just a couple of round earlier, that's all.

That 1993 team was good enough to win it all, in my opinion, but the bye week and home game were crucial towards doing it. They were better than the 2000 team, which went (as you said) two rounds further.

The 1993 regular season finale might be -- to me, anyway -- the most monumental Giants regular season loss.
2000 was an incredible season...  
bw in dc : 6/25/2018 6:08 pm : link
It wasn't a bust, because the Ravens were spectacular on D, but it the sting still lingers because we lost to Dilfer and that pedestrian offense.
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