He's not mentioned in this recap, but I believe his Major Finction will be "Receiver"---I expect them Push him out to Slot and further to take advantage of all of his skills.
The Combination of Barkley and Engram on Wheels and Seams from multiple formations should offset some of the issues caused by lacking a "Post-up/possession receiver".
I expect Latimer to show as well...sometimes these things become opportunities for Players, and for coaches to maximize the roster they have..... COACHING
Davis is a savvy route runner who generates good explosion off the line, along with good hand usage to get into his route and get a clean release and avoid the jam. He has the ball skills to play outside his frame and make proper adjustments working down field. His hip swerve and head fakes, along with his natural hands, lets him make a quick move to elude the defender while cradling the ball properly to prevent the forced fumble.
Davis shows good athletic ability for his position, demonstrating the change of direction, balance and body control to not take any false steps getting into his routes. He has sudden quickness and impressive deep speed, building his acceleration nicely, as he shows the body torque to get in and out of his breaks cleanly. He is a quick, short strider with good playing speed for his size, but is better utilized in the short-to-intermediate areas, as he has very good balance running his routes and does a good job of adjusting to the ball in flight.
Davis also has a solid understanding for route building/progression. He comes off the line hard and tries to look fast, using his hands well to attack the center of a defensive back to get a strong push- off for a clean release. He has the strength to defeat the jam and knows how to use his size to lean into and push off the defender when trying to create room to operate.
Davis displays the moves to elude and it is very difficult to reroute him due to his ability to fend off defenders and protect his body. His speed makes him consistently escape past the press, but if stalled, he lacks the strength to work his way through. He shows good body control through his movements and is surprisingly light on his feet for a player of his size.
As Eric pointed out, he's a speedster. He's also pretty strong and a good route runner. He's one UFA who could surprise.
I agree with your selections, and that the group is not as strong as some fans think. That isn't to fault Gettleman or the FO. The first priority had to be to fix the lines. Barkley can also play as a slot WR. But after OBJ and SS, we have a lot of journeymen and rookies. The Giants might well go with four TEs, instead of 6 WRs, but Davis is a guy who might stick as the #6 WR. I assume Rudolph is eligible for the PS.
There could be two OBj's out there....one with a new contract, and one without......they will not play the same....
While SS did have two long TD's against the Eagles, he is not a burner.....and he has to be able to stay on the field, and he has a tendency of leaving his feet on making catches.....and he has to do a better job of holding onto the ball.....
If either is injured, there is nothing else really on the roster.....unless we are forced to go with Double E out there, but his speed and route running will not be an advantage against corners like it would be with LBers....
We have to get lucky with one of the new WRs, or even with a castoff from another team....
With a healthy OBj, and if we can avoid injuries, we should be ok....
At least when you consider the big picture of the passing game. Barkley is going to have a huge impact on Odell. Running threat to take it to the house and what he can do catching the ball underneath, teams won’t be able to sit back on Odell like they have the past two years. I’m not sure some realize how much that has limited the impact of Odell, but it’s been huge. Not to mention reintroduction to play action pass, which when have they had a running game to worry about since Odell was drafted.
Shepard is coming into his own and Is already one of the better slot receivers in the league, in just two seasons. Those guys are hugely underrated. They are so hard to cover, but especially when your priority is shutting down deep threats.
Okay, not receivers, but when you throw in two potentially big time matchup challenges in Engram and Barkley, we are talking about receiving options 5 and above. Even if they had a top guy here, he would either be a wasted talent barring injury, or stealing catches from one of the other four. What you need here is guys with some small bit of upside who can make plays for you from time to time, and that’s what I think they have.
Sure depth could be a little concern, but when looking at the totality of the passing game, this is one one of the least of my concerns given Eli’s ability to spread the ball around, intent to feature running game more prominently, and Shurmur reputation to adopt to what he has.
When you loom at the way most moder offense are constructed Â
In consideration of Odell, Shepard, Engram, and Barkley, with the ability to stretch the field with Odell, Engram, and possibly Barkely, the ability to attack the middle of the field with all four of these guys, and the ability to line them up all over the place to get the desired matchup, throw in play action if Barkley can get that going, this is almost an embarrassment of riches with a veteran QB.
Yes, depth could be a problem (particularly if Odell is not the same), but that's a simple fact of life in the salary cap era. I'm also hopeful Shurmur will make the requisite adjustments should they lose any of the big four to injury.
off of most rosters and aren't they sub par? How would ATL look without Julio? Pitt without AB? This is the current state of the NFL. I can argue that we have more ability to catch the ball than 75% of the teams out there.
The problem is - like much of the roster - the Giants are top heavy here. Odell is arguably the best receiver in football.
But if he were to go down...
For, sure -that would be devastating. My point is, in a salary cap era, particularly with a high priced veteran franchise QB, having this level of playmakers in the passing game plus depth would be exceedingly rare. What it comes down to is depth due to injury is simply where you have to count on your veteran franchise QB to pick up the slack and earn his $100M paycheck. That's just the reality of the league economics.
I'm including Barkley here because he's a dynamic pass catcher, and pass catching RB, slot receiver, and TE are all integral components in modern passing game. Between the core pass catchers we have three young in their prime 1st round picks (Odell, Engram, and Barkley) and a young in his prime up and coming 2nd round pick (Shepard). And throw in the guy distributing the passes (he and your QB guru play-calling head-coach are your depth) and you have a #1 and #2 overall. Yes, you want depth, but that's not too far off for being as good as it gets realistically.
I hear what you are saying, but how many teams in the NFL have a better #2 receiver than Cody Latimer? I would say almost all of them.
Agreed, but he is also the #5 receiving target in this offense. I would suggest not many teams have options 1,2,3,&4 better than Odell, Barkely, Engram,and Shepard. CL is not glaringly undertalened when compared to other #5 options. Receiver labels aside, Shurmur is going to move these guys all over the place to get matchups he wants. Not to mention refocus on running game, there are only so many balls to go around.
Got to have a vertical threat outside (which OBJ is) to help open things up for the underneath targets, who we have plenty of now (Barkley, Engram, Shepard).
Again, if OBJ stays healthy, we're OK. But it makes me nervous.
For a TE, yes. But if you have no real vertical threat on offense, it becomes much easier for a defense to take out the tight end, regardless of where you line him up.
You put Engram outside - as a de facto WR - and he's not really that fast.
For a TE, yes. But if you have no real vertical threat on offense, it becomes much easier for a defense to take out the tight end, regardless of where you line him up.
You put Engram outside - as a de facto WR - and he's not really that fast.
Engram is actually pretty damn fast. He isn't the quickest but he can stretch a defense even lined up out wide.
I agree with what you are saying but I will stress this: we don't need to fill every hole on offense because Shurmur is going to put players in position to succeed. If that means splitting out Barkley out wide and send him deep against a LB then so be it. The only limitation right now is Shurmur's imagination.
Yes, if Beckham goes down then things change but we are still in a good spot with Shep, Engram, Barkley, and company. I think Shep is going to thrive in this offense. Right now we can saw there are too many weapons and one ball. What team is in a better position than the Giants with Beckham, Shep, Engram, and Barkley? We cannot be loaded at every position and Shurmur made a guy like Theilen a great WR.
Shurmur is going to make some average looking guys look like steals and I wouldn't be surprised in a guy like Latimer being one of them. Look at what Shurmur did in Minnesota without Cook. Diggs, Theilen, Rudolph, and McKinnon aren't exactly guys that are the top at their position.
He was solid his rookie year but underwhelmed in some areas. It looked like he may have taken a jump in his game in year 2 with plays like the long TD @ PHI. (That's what was expected out of Oklahoma - RB-like YAC ability.)
Will be interesting to see if his play levels off, or declines, coming off the injury. Or maybe he continues to get better.
I think it's fair to say he - like everyone else - was hamstrung by playing in that ridiculous offense so far. It seems like Eli already trusts him old hat.
But again, in a fixed salary cap league, your veteran QB and scheme essentially become your depth. I don't know how Shurmur adjusts if they lose Odell. They'll slow the game down, probably. Maybe he relies more on the running game, maybe tries to stretch the field with play action pass, run more 2 TE sets, spread them wide with multi-receiver sets, who knows. But they still have players who can propose matchup challenges and they'll work to get those matchups and put a lot of it on the veteran QB to make good reads, challenge the defense with accurate throws and spread the ball around.
One was an illegal pick(it was only a 2 yard catch) and there was a missed tackle.....
The other was a 12 yard catch that the safety completely misplayed......
This guy has to really step up his game this year, especially if we do not have that third WR on the roster(by that I mean, not just throwing a body out there).....
Also, it's amazing the descriptions we get about Double E by BBI'ers.....to someone who never heard or seen him before, by reading BBI you would think he is the best thing, since the wheel.....he has done nothing yet, until he does....yes, the potential is there....we expected too much from him his rookie year....he and Eli were not on the same page, sometimes, which should have been expected.....it takes time to develop into a TE that makes a difference....
As for Barkley, I hope he and Eli, really get their Mojo together in the passing game, because if Eli can get the ball to him in stride, I pity the LBer or DB who has to cover him.....
I hear what you are saying, but how many teams in the NFL have a better #2 receiver than Cody Latimer? I would say almost all of them.
Shep is our #2 WR. Why does an outside WR have to be the #2 WR? Shep is our #2 and Engram should be factored in as well, as I think he will play more WR than TE this year.
but that's my point. They have 1 guy behind AB. We have Shep who is solid and Engram who has big play ability. Who the outside guy opposite OBJ is, doesn't really matter as much as some are alluding to. People keep calling him the #2, but he's not. Take the top WR off any team and they have problems. That's life in the salary cap era.
along with O'Dell, those are the guys who dictate difficult defensive choices. If they coach to the Roster, they will have opportunity.
Shep is Over-rated, especially by our fans....but he's a quality 3. The big question is whether Latimer and another "guy" can provide depth against injury, or a quality change in look-----last year's "participants" had NO Talent.
Pass offense put up good numbers in 2014 and 2015 without a real legit #2. And a threat at TE. Good offensive gameplanning and playcalling goes a long way.
Engram can run by linebackers and safeties, but if you put him outside against a starting NFL corner, he's not going to run past him. He's a hybrid TE...not a WR.
The Combination of Barkley and Engram on Wheels and Seams from multiple formations should offset some of the issues caused by lacking a "Post-up/possession receiver".
I expect Latimer to show as well...sometimes these things become opportunities for Players, and for coaches to maximize the roster they have..... COACHING
Davis is a savvy route runner who generates good explosion off the line, along with good hand usage to get into his route and get a clean release and avoid the jam. He has the ball skills to play outside his frame and make proper adjustments working down field. His hip swerve and head fakes, along with his natural hands, lets him make a quick move to elude the defender while cradling the ball properly to prevent the forced fumble.
Davis shows good athletic ability for his position, demonstrating the change of direction, balance and body control to not take any false steps getting into his routes. He has sudden quickness and impressive deep speed, building his acceleration nicely, as he shows the body torque to get in and out of his breaks cleanly. He is a quick, short strider with good playing speed for his size, but is better utilized in the short-to-intermediate areas, as he has very good balance running his routes and does a good job of adjusting to the ball in flight.
Davis also has a solid understanding for route building/progression. He comes off the line hard and tries to look fast, using his hands well to attack the center of a defensive back to get a strong push- off for a clean release. He has the strength to defeat the jam and knows how to use his size to lean into and push off the defender when trying to create room to operate.
Davis displays the moves to elude and it is very difficult to reroute him due to his ability to fend off defenders and protect his body. His speed makes him consistently escape past the press, but if stalled, he lacks the strength to work his way through. He shows good body control through his movements and is surprisingly light on his feet for a player of his size.
As Eric pointed out, he's a speedster. He's also pretty strong and a good route runner. He's one UFA who could surprise.
The only concern here is depth for injury.
I agree with your selections, and that the group is not as strong as some fans think. That isn't to fault Gettleman or the FO. The first priority had to be to fix the lines. Barkley can also play as a slot WR. But after OBJ and SS, we have a lot of journeymen and rookies. The Giants might well go with four TEs, instead of 6 WRs, but Davis is a guy who might stick as the #6 WR. I assume Rudolph is eligible for the PS.
While SS did have two long TD's against the Eagles, he is not a burner.....and he has to be able to stay on the field, and he has a tendency of leaving his feet on making catches.....and he has to do a better job of holding onto the ball.....
If either is injured, there is nothing else really on the roster.....unless we are forced to go with Double E out there, but his speed and route running will not be an advantage against corners like it would be with LBers....
We have to get lucky with one of the new WRs, or even with a castoff from another team....
With a healthy OBj, and if we can avoid injuries, we should be ok....
Shepard is coming into his own and Is already one of the better slot receivers in the league, in just two seasons. Those guys are hugely underrated. They are so hard to cover, but especially when your priority is shutting down deep threats.
Okay, not receivers, but when you throw in two potentially big time matchup challenges in Engram and Barkley, we are talking about receiving options 5 and above. Even if they had a top guy here, he would either be a wasted talent barring injury, or stealing catches from one of the other four. What you need here is guys with some small bit of upside who can make plays for you from time to time, and that’s what I think they have.
Sure depth could be a little concern, but when looking at the totality of the passing game, this is one one of the least of my concerns given Eli’s ability to spread the ball around, intent to feature running game more prominently, and Shurmur reputation to adopt to what he has.
Yes, depth could be a problem (particularly if Odell is not the same), but that's a simple fact of life in the salary cap era. I'm also hopeful Shurmur will make the requisite adjustments should they lose any of the big four to injury.
But if he were to go down...
But if he were to go down...
yeah and even though we can assume we will have a better running game now, if OBJ is not in the lineup our receiving corps is suddenly sub par again.
They seem to contradict almost everything that Ira quoted.
But if he were to go down...
I'm including Barkley here because he's a dynamic pass catcher, and pass catching RB, slot receiver, and TE are all integral components in modern passing game. Between the core pass catchers we have three young in their prime 1st round picks (Odell, Engram, and Barkley) and a young in his prime up and coming 2nd round pick (Shepard). And throw in the guy distributing the passes (he and your QB guru play-calling head-coach are your depth) and you have a #1 and #2 overall. Yes, you want depth, but that's not too far off for being as good as it gets realistically.
He has to know this is a big opportunity for him and his career
Agree, Motivated to get revenge on the Boys. A pretty damn good red zone receiver.
Again, if OBJ stays healthy, we're OK. But it makes me nervous.
For a TE, yes. But if you have no real vertical threat on offense, it becomes much easier for a defense to take out the tight end, regardless of where you line him up.
You put Engram outside - as a de facto WR - and he's not really that fast.
Quote:
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For a TE, yes. But if you have no real vertical threat on offense, it becomes much easier for a defense to take out the tight end, regardless of where you line him up.
You put Engram outside - as a de facto WR - and he's not really that fast.
Engram is actually pretty damn fast. He isn't the quickest but he can stretch a defense even lined up out wide.
I agree with what you are saying but I will stress this: we don't need to fill every hole on offense because Shurmur is going to put players in position to succeed. If that means splitting out Barkley out wide and send him deep against a LB then so be it. The only limitation right now is Shurmur's imagination.
Yes, if Beckham goes down then things change but we are still in a good spot with Shep, Engram, Barkley, and company. I think Shep is going to thrive in this offense. Right now we can saw there are too many weapons and one ball. What team is in a better position than the Giants with Beckham, Shep, Engram, and Barkley? We cannot be loaded at every position and Shurmur made a guy like Theilen a great WR.
Shurmur is going to make some average looking guys look like steals and I wouldn't be surprised in a guy like Latimer being one of them. Look at what Shurmur did in Minnesota without Cook. Diggs, Theilen, Rudolph, and McKinnon aren't exactly guys that are the top at their position.
Will be interesting to see if his play levels off, or declines, coming off the injury. Or maybe he continues to get better.
I think it's fair to say he - like everyone else - was hamstrung by playing in that ridiculous offense so far. It seems like Eli already trusts him old hat.
I don't see how a 1 year "prove it" can hurt. Sign him ...
Dude isn't just some average Joe.
The other was a 12 yard catch that the safety completely misplayed......
This guy has to really step up his game this year, especially if we do not have that third WR on the roster(by that I mean, not just throwing a body out there).....
Also, it's amazing the descriptions we get about Double E by BBI'ers.....to someone who never heard or seen him before, by reading BBI you would think he is the best thing, since the wheel.....he has done nothing yet, until he does....yes, the potential is there....we expected too much from him his rookie year....he and Eli were not on the same page, sometimes, which should have been expected.....it takes time to develop into a TE that makes a difference....
As for Barkley, I hope he and Eli, really get their Mojo together in the passing game, because if Eli can get the ball to him in stride, I pity the LBer or DB who has to cover him.....
Why is Lattimer the 2 wr and not shepard?
Shep is our #2 WR. Why does an outside WR have to be the #2 WR? Shep is our #2 and Engram should be factored in as well, as I think he will play more WR than TE this year.
Shep is Over-rated, especially by our fans....but he's a quality 3. The big question is whether Latimer and another "guy" can provide depth against injury, or a quality change in look-----last year's "participants" had NO Talent.
I suggest doing both first to understand my position.
(Engram), not that fast ??
What do you call a 4.43 forty ?
Engram out-runs NFL Pro Bowl WRs DeAndre Hopkins & AJ Green
http://www.nfl.com/videos/simulcam/0ap3000000790107/Simulcam-Engram-vs-Hopkins-vs-Green
Robbieballs.
Engram can run by linebackers and safeties, but if you put him outside against a starting NFL corner, he's not going to run past him. He's a hybrid TE...not a WR.
https://www.milehighreport.com/2013/2/12/3969128/some-clarification-is-in-order-average-speed-by-position
Average forty time for NFL CBs is 4.48.
I've said this before, to me, he can be our version of WR Kelvin Benjamin - big, fast receiver and a very willing run blocker in the deep zones.
Remember how WR Plaxico would mow down the little guys for our RBs. Imagine Engram blocking for Barkley that way, 20-30 yards down-field !
There are very few WRs blowing by corners in the NFL anway. You win with route running, physical body advantage, quicks and where the help goes.
The Giants have shit depth at WR. Engram is going to be outside a ton.
You cant see beyond your own nose.