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NFT: 2018 NHL Hall of Fame Class - Brodeur & St. Louis elected

Dunedin81 : 6/26/2018 3:32 pm
Martin Brodeur
Jayna Hefford
Martin St. Louis
Alexander Yakushev
Gary Bettman
Willie O'Ree

Bettman gets his equally undeserved Selig moment.
Good for St. Louis  
Ben in Tampa : 6/26/2018 3:53 pm : link
His 03-04 season in Tampa was legendary
Ranger or not...  
Dunedin81 : 6/26/2018 3:54 pm : link
gotta celebrate a Catamount.
Jeez, MSL is eligible already?  
Greg from LI : 6/26/2018 4:16 pm : link
That playoff run is already a distant memory, alas.
More accolades for Brodeur and the  
Chris684 : 6/26/2018 4:28 pm : link
90s-00s Devils.

What a run.
Marty's records will never be broken  
weeg in the bronx : 6/26/2018 4:43 pm : link
Wins and Shutouts are near untouchable.
RE: Jeez, MSL is eligible already?  
old man : 6/26/2018 7:26 pm : link
In comment 14000126 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
That playoff run is already a distant memory, alas.


Wasn't he playing in Tampa a year or 2 ago? What is eligibility length in NHL?
MSL's last season was 2015  
Greg from LI : 6/26/2018 7:28 pm : link
So it's 3 years, I guess
MSL is a a HOFer after 3 years?  
Vanzetti : 6/27/2018 12:11 pm : link
I guess the Lady Byng trophy counts for something.
I'm not sure if Brodeur was the best of all time  
Jay on the Island : 6/27/2018 12:17 pm : link
But he was the most consistent goaltender that ever played.
He crushed the NHL record for consecutive 30+ and 40+ win seasons. He also has the all time record for most 40+ win seasons. He was often very clutch in the playoffs as well.
Most of the great goalies were head cases...  
Dunedin81 : 6/27/2018 12:24 pm : link
whose flame burned bright, sometimes for quite awhile, and then fizzled out. Brodeur was a head case away from the ice and cool as a cucumber on it.
RE: Marty's records will never be broken  
BrettNYG10 : 6/27/2018 12:49 pm : link
In comment 14000174 weeg in the bronx said:
Quote:
Wins and Shutouts are near untouchable.


I think the wins record will be broken eventually. The OT rules make it easier to rack up wins.
Is it possible? Sure...  
Dunedin81 : 6/27/2018 1:10 pm : link
But Brodeur's ability to average 70+ games a year for 12 years is singular. Also, such a goalie would have to be on a competitive team year in and year out to be able to average 40+ wins a year for a decade plus. Had he played his entire career under the OT rules it'd almost certainly be out of reach, but considering where the nearest active competitors are it may be there anyway.
best goalie is hard to answer  
pjcas18 : 6/27/2018 1:14 pm : link
statistically can't argue against Brodeur. Though Brodeur played until he was 42, Roy retired at 37.

But I don't think anyone has ever seen a better goalie performance than Tim Thomas in 2011. Maybe ever, definitely in my hockey watching history.

Tim Thomas had 849 shots against in those 24 games.

By comparison, Brodeur who has obviously had some stellar playoffs, most in a cup run (24 games also) was 622. That's a big difference.

He had some cup runs, one 25 games (loss), with just 507 SA, or a cup win with 530.

Now, I'm a firm believer in shots against is less meaningful than quality chances, but the goalie still needs to make the saves they should make.

Anyway, Brodeur is probably the best ever statistically even though I'm partial to Patrick Roy talent-wise, but no one touched Tim Thomas in 2011 for my vote - for one season, one playoffs - he's my guy.

Hasek at his best was comparable...  
Dunedin81 : 6/27/2018 1:18 pm : link
maybe better. But Brodeur had some deep playoff runs, including Cup runs, where he simply carried the team on his back, after carrying them on his back for 70+ games in the regular season.
Not counting Brodeur  
Jay on the Island : 6/27/2018 1:20 pm : link
Two of the best goalies I have seen were Roy and Dominik Hasek. IMO Hasek was the best goalie in hockey from 94-99.
Congrats to Marty Brodeur!!!  
Mr. Bungle : 6/27/2018 1:31 pm : link
.
Hasek  
pjcas18 : 6/27/2018 1:33 pm : link
as unorthodox as he was made some of the best highlight reel saves I've ever seen.

Played on some shitty teams unfortunately for him, and not as long as some of the others.

But he's definitely in the conversation for best.

not many goalies have more than 6 vezina's if any.

Dryden? Plante? maybe.
RE: Is it possible? Sure...  
BrettNYG10 : 6/27/2018 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14000802 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
But Brodeur's ability to average 70+ games a year for 12 years is singular. Also, such a goalie would have to be on a competitive team year in and year out to be able to average 40+ wins a year for a decade plus. Had he played his entire career under the OT rules it'd almost certainly be out of reach, but considering where the nearest active competitors are it may be there anyway.


I agree - I'm certainly not predicting it happens anytime soon. The guy would have to have MAF's profile but actually be worthy of that spot (I love MAF and think he's been massively underrated throughout his career, but you don't pick him #1 overall). Start young, play on a dominant team, don't lose your spot to a rookie.

Lundqvist on the Pens throughout his career might have been someone who could beat it. Having the longevity and team quality for so long makes it hard to break. But I don't think it's impossible.
Goalies  
pjcas18 : 6/27/2018 1:51 pm : link
don't start out as "the guy" early anymore.

they're trending to even be later round picks in the draft.

Who was the last 1st round goalie to pan out?

Vasilevskiy? He wasn't the starter until he was 22, being behind Bishop.

At 23 he had his first 40 win season. He's going to be 24 and has 85 wins. To reach Brodeur he'd need to play until he's 40 (so 16 more seasons) and average 37.5 wins per season to tie Brodeur.

Possible, but unlikely.




Sure, it's definitely hard.  
BrettNYG10 : 6/27/2018 2:11 pm : link
It's just a lot more breakable than Gretzky's point record (or even goal record, although I think that could be do-able too).
Uncle Daddy reaches the pinnacle  
Greg from LI : 6/27/2018 2:21 pm : link
.
But it's not just longevity...  
Dunedin81 : 6/27/2018 3:02 pm : link
it's durability within seasons. Years at a time go by without a goalie playing 70+ games, and it's rare to see a goalie do it year in and year out. A competitive team is going to limit a franchise goalie's workload to save him for the playoffs. Brodeur played at a time where the trap could limit shots and wear and tear and allow him to play that often without quite the same amount of tread on the tires, while the game nowadays demands more of a goalie.
What' more impressive about Brodeur's records  
Jay on the Island : 6/27/2018 3:25 pm : link
Is all the time he missed due to lockouts. The lockouts canceled exactly 150 games during the prime of his career. Let's say he would have started 130 of those games that is potentially another 85-90 wins.
I was lumping in longevity with durability.  
BrettNYG10 : 6/27/2018 3:30 pm : link
Of course it will require a ton of luck, the right circumstances, etc. It'll probably take another 'generation' of goalies to break it (or get appropriately close).

Holtby matched Brodeur's record for a single season in 12 less games. Brodeur's four best single seasons by wins came post lockout. He was probably better in his late 20's/early 30's. Eight of the top ten came post-lockout. Wins are easier to come by - you won't need to play the 78 games Brodeur did to rack up the same number of wins.

It's not essentially mathematically impossible given the structure of the game like Cy Young's 511 wins is, for example. I don't think it's a single digit percent chance that someone breaks it over the next 50 years.
Brodeurs numbers of regular seaosn starts each year  
Jay on the Island : 6/27/2018 3:35 pm : link
1995 - 77
1996 - 67
1997 - 70
1998 - 70
1999 - 72
2000 - 72
2001 - 73
2002 - 73
2003 - 75
2005 - 73
2006 - 78
2007 - 77

The physical toll of playing that many games each year combined with the consistent play will likely never be seen again.
I agree, I just don't think you will need to going forward to match  
BrettNYG10 : 6/27/2018 3:41 pm : link
Some of Brodeur's best seasons.

I also don't think Gretzky's goal record is as unbeatable as others do. I'm not just picking on Brodeur, lol.
RE: I agree, I just don't think you will need to going forward to match  
pjcas18 : 6/27/2018 3:52 pm : link
In comment 14000940 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Some of Brodeur's best seasons.

I also don't think Gretzky's goal record is as unbeatable as others do. I'm not just picking on Brodeur, lol.


I think Gretzky's 92 goals and 215 points in one season (different seasons) are more unbreakable than Brodeur's win total IMO. But it will stand for a while. I don't think the goalie who will break it is in the NHL yet. So it's going to be a good 20 years.

But to Brett's point, Rinne had 42 wins this season in just 59 starts. Brodeur's highest win total was 48, but in 78 starts. Without ties, goalies today can break it.

Gretzky's records are so far beyond anyone else and the game is changing to make those records harder.

Gretzky has 9 of the top 10 highest assist seasons. 9 of 10 (including the top 8). the next closest player in terms of assists in a season is Lemieux with 49 less assists in that season.

getting 49 assists in a season is all-star caliber, 163 is insane.

Not to make this about Gretzky, but those elite Gretzky seasons are less likely to be broken than Brodeur's IMO.





I agree, I think you stated what I meant more eloquently than I did.  
BrettNYG10 : 6/27/2018 4:55 pm : link
My reference to the goal record in my prior post was regarding the 894, not the 92. I think the 92 would require significant rule changes.
894  
pjcas18 : 6/27/2018 5:18 pm : link
is as close to untouchable as is 2857 points as Cy young's 511 wins.

Gretzky also holds the record for most career SH goals.

The game has changed so much I'm not sure Gretzky could even play on the PK.

Unless they shrink goalie pads or make the net bigger I don't think we'll see another era like the Gretzky era. GPG is half what it was in 1985.
Ovie is the only guy who can even dream of the goals record  
Greg from LI : 6/27/2018 5:45 pm : link
And he'll start his age 33 season next year 277 goals behind. So he has to average 28 goals a year until he's 43 to break it. Possible? Maybe. Highly implausible though.
Jagr may have hit it if he didn’t go to the KHL for a few years.  
BrettNYG10 : 6/27/2018 9:43 pm : link
Ovechkin probably won’t make it - but because he was an older draftee and because of the lockout, he didn’t hit NHL ice until he was 20.

If he was born a few weeks earlier and we didn’t have the lockout, it’s possible he has another 70-80 goals.

I don’t think either Brodeur’s wins or Gretzky’s 894 will be broken by anyone currently active. But I don’t think it’s that hard to imagine someone getting there.
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