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NFT: CTE diagnosed in living former NFL player

Kev in Cali : 6/26/2018 7:32 pm
CTE has been talked about in many aspects before, but there may be a break thru in the near future as the article discussed. Obviously, the link to head trauma is a leading contributor/factor to CTE, but after reading this article it made me think a little beyond whether one simply taking head hits is the link to the disease.

In a sense and likely, there could be other contributors to the disease in the form of PED's, steroids, drugs to consider in the long term. I've witnessed many folks taking pre workout this or that. Post workout this and that. All of which can be taken over the counter and are not FDA approved (maybe some are? I don't take any). With that said, nobody knows the long term effects of those products, or steroids for that matter, or how they may also contribute to head trauma and brain diseases in the future.

I'd love to look at historical boxing careers and the footballers from 40' or 50's to compare, per capita, and how many are/or were affected by brain disease as documented. I realize that is impossible at this point to determine, but how many of the previous generations of players were affected and is the likely ingredient simply head trauma or head trauma combined with a catalyst in the form of a drug or combination of drugs?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/nfl-player-confirmed-1st-diagnosis-cte-living-patient/story?id=51181721
I bet an alarming amount of high school football players  
Dave in PA : 6/26/2018 7:34 pm : link
That donít go on to play college or pro end up developing CTE. May not be proof of it right now, but it seems unavoidable. If I had known back in HS about all of this I very well may have avoided football altogether, despite it being an amazing and unique outlet.
RE: I bet an alarming amount of high school football players  
ThatLimerickGuy : 6/26/2018 7:37 pm : link
In comment 14000357 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
That donít go on to play college or pro end up developing CTE. May not be proof of it right now, but it seems unavoidable. If I had known back in HS about all of this I very well may have avoided football altogether, despite it being an amazing and unique outlet.


Known about what?

That you could possibly scramble your brain running full speed into another human being wearing plastic body armor? You needed to be provided with a series of scientific studies to tell you this?

It is like a fireman being bewildered if they suffer a burn at work in a fire.

NHL is getting hammered on this topic  
pjcas18 : 6/26/2018 7:49 pm : link
and they're taking an awful approach. The NHL is saying there is no concrete link between head injuries/concussions and CTE. Using general population metrics and occurrences of CTE to compare with NHL players.

To me, the NHL and NFL have two things they should do:

1. see if there is an equipment change that can limit the impact to the brain from contact, like invest a lot of money in this area if they haven't already

2. have players sign a waiver to play. it is likely in a contact sport you will have head contact and you can result with CTE. Play at your own peril.

Not sure what else they can do other than set up some type of fund for former players but that financial exposure will be massive (and I'm not saying it should or shouldn't be, but I don't equate it exactly to cigarettes and the tobacco industry like some people do, you have to be pretty dim to believe repeated head trauma is healthy.).
RE: RE: I bet an alarming amount of high school football players  
Kev in Cali : 6/26/2018 7:59 pm : link
In comment 14000358 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 14000357 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


That donít go on to play college or pro end up developing CTE. May not be proof of it right now, but it seems unavoidable. If I had known back in HS about all of this I very well may have avoided football altogether, despite it being an amazing and unique outlet.



Known about what?

That you could possibly scramble your brain running full speed into another human being wearing plastic body armor? You needed to be provided with a series of scientific studies to tell you this?

It is like a fireman being bewildered if they suffer a burn at work in a fire.


I get the risks in both, but "the burn" isn't felt for years and decades later in brain trauma unlike a fireman getting burned in a fire. The issue with this in a fire, you know you got burned instantly and know not to do it again. In head trauma, you don't know if you have been burned or not. You don't know if it's bad or not, hell you could get hit and feel fine the next play and then move on. Many more factors than just fire = burn.
CTE cant be diagnosed unless person is deceased  
micky : 6/26/2018 8:19 pm : link
.
RE: CTE cant be diagnosed unless person is deceased  
Les in TO : 6/26/2018 8:27 pm : link
In comment 14000404 micky said:
Quote:
.
correct, but as noted in the article in the OP, there are now tools to detect the likelihood of CTE based on tau protein tests in living subjects.
if otc pre workouts  
UESBLUE : 6/26/2018 8:47 pm : link
give you CTE im in for a whole lotta trouble LMAO. I havent trained without one in yrs...
RE: RE: RE: I bet an alarming amount of high school football players  
ThatLimerickGuy : 6/26/2018 8:53 pm : link
In comment 14000381 Kev in Cali said:
Quote:
In comment 14000358 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


In comment 14000357 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


That donít go on to play college or pro end up developing CTE. May not be proof of it right now, but it seems unavoidable. If I had known back in HS about all of this I very well may have avoided football altogether, despite it being an amazing and unique outlet.



Known about what?

That you could possibly scramble your brain running full speed into another human being wearing plastic body armor? You needed to be provided with a series of scientific studies to tell you this?

It is like a fireman being bewildered if they suffer a burn at work in a fire.




I get the risks in both, but "the burn" isn't felt for years and decades later in brain trauma unlike a fireman getting burned in a fire. The issue with this in a fire, you know you got burned instantly and know not to do it again. In head trauma, you don't know if you have been burned or not. You don't know if it's bad or not, hell you could get hit and feel fine the next play and then move on. Many more factors than just fire = burn.


I understand what you are saying but you are missing the point.

Use common sense. Using your body as a missile to spear another human while both are wearing plastic body armor comes with some inherent risks. Saying CTE wasn't known about I can understand, but you have to know that there is serious risk to your body by playing football don't you?

I think even our cave man ancestors knew that bashing their heads repeatedly wouldn't lead to a great outcome.
brain cancer from cell phones and wireless  
Vanzetti : 6/26/2018 9:17 pm : link
is a way bigger concern than CTE. Especially for kids because their cells multiply so fast. France has already outlawed wireless in schools. England and Germany are considering the same, based on evidence presented by leading researchers.

CTE is definitely a concern. But that doctor who was on the PBS documentary struck me as a crusader who was being driven by passion rather than sound scientific evidence.

I think we should take precautions against CTE. Like concussion protocols and adjusting sports to make them safer. I played both hockey and soccer in high school, and I can tell you the head takes way more abuse in soccer. Yet, the rest of the world, where soccer is king,is not going nuts about CTE.

So, to me, CTE is definitely a worry, especially if you have kids who want to play football. But the hysteria about it has been way magnified by social media.





In other related news  
BigBlue4You09 : 6/26/2018 9:38 pm : link
ďFamily of Tyler Hilinski says autopsy found signs of CTE after the suicide of the 21-year-old Washington State quarterback.Ē
http://collegefootball.ap.org/article/washington-state-football-player-had-brain-damage-suicide - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I bet an alarming amount of high school football players  
UConn4523 : 6/26/2018 9:44 pm : link
In comment 14000358 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 14000357 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


That donít go on to play college or pro end up developing CTE. May not be proof of it right now, but it seems unavoidable. If I had known back in HS about all of this I very well may have avoided football altogether, despite it being an amazing and unique outlet.



Known about what?

That you could possibly scramble your brain running full speed into another human being wearing plastic body armor? You needed to be provided with a series of scientific studies to tell you this?

It is like a fireman being bewildered if they suffer a burn at work in a fire.


Arenít you a lawyer? I hope your clients donít see your posts.
The time has probably already arrived that insurance companies  
baadbill : 6/26/2018 9:44 pm : link
are going to refuse to provide coverage to high schools and high school coaches who are sued for having tackle football as an approved school activity.

The "consent" of parents is irrelevant to the liability of schools that offer dangerous activities. Schools couldn't legally allow students to play russian roulette with a loaded pistol even if they had the written permission of parents. That is because if an activity is so potentially risky, it doesn't make it "ok" for the school system to offer the activity simply because some parent is reckless enough to not care about their child's health.

And even without an express exclusion for football (which will be coming), insurance companies are likely going to deny coverage because the risks were so well known that the school system was acting with the knowledge of the high risk of harm to children's brains and, as such, does not fit within the definition of "accident" set forth in property casualty policies.

And once boards of education can't obtain insurance, that will be the end of football for those under the age of 18.
RE: RE: RE: I bet an alarming amount of high school football players  
ThatLimerickGuy : 6/26/2018 10:33 pm : link
In comment 14000449 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14000358 ThatLimerickGuy said:


Quote:


In comment 14000357 Dave in PA said:


Quote:


That donít go on to play college or pro end up developing CTE. May not be proof of it right now, but it seems unavoidable. If I had known back in HS about all of this I very well may have avoided football altogether, despite it being an amazing and unique outlet.



Known about what?

That you could possibly scramble your brain running full speed into another human being wearing plastic body armor? You needed to be provided with a series of scientific studies to tell you this?

It is like a fireman being bewildered if they suffer a burn at work in a fire.




Arenít you a lawyer? I hope your clients donít see your posts.


Yes and why? Like most of sane America who doesn't grandstand against the social issue du jour a wide majority would agree with what I post.

Dont assume that the volume of a particular side of an argument somehow lends credence to its popularity. I think a quick trip down Penn Ave supports that concept.
Ohh ok  
UConn4523 : 6/26/2018 10:39 pm : link
I guess the nfl hiding the findings were just for shits and giggles.

Thereís a massive difference between doing something you know is dangerous and doing something knowing exactly how itís dangerous. I mean you do know that, correct?

More and more players are cashing out early, and more and more families are not allowing their children to play. That isnít grandstanding against a social issue, itís making a more educated decision on yours or your childís future. So if a poster above states he wish he knew about CTE back when he played, a response telling him ďno shit itís dangerous, what did you expectĒ is smarmy as all hell.
RE: The time has probably already arrived that insurance companies  
Del Shofner : 6/26/2018 10:42 pm : link
In comment 14000451 baadbill said:
Quote:
are going to refuse to provide coverage to high schools and high school coaches who are sued for having tackle football as an approved school activity.

The "consent" of parents is irrelevant to the liability of schools that offer dangerous activities. Schools couldn't legally allow students to play russian roulette with a loaded pistol even if they had the written permission of parents. That is because if an activity is so potentially risky, it doesn't make it "ok" for the school system to offer the activity simply because some parent is reckless enough to not care about their child's health.

And even without an express exclusion for football (which will be coming), insurance companies are likely going to deny coverage because the risks were so well known that the school system was acting with the knowledge of the high risk of harm to children's brains and, as such, does not fit within the definition of "accident" set forth in property casualty policies.

And once boards of education can't obtain insurance, that will be the end of football for those under the age of 18.


That may well be how it plays out.
...  
christian : 6/26/2018 11:18 pm : link
Science progressing to a point that a diagnosis can be made pre-mortum would be a fantastic development.

Collisions triggering a protein based disease caused a massive change in the way brain trauma is looked at and was a major surprise to the medical community. Equating this line of research to common sense is a gross underappreciation of the facts.

The best outcome is detection and treatment to avoid future sickness. That's the only way the game will be preserved.
RE: Ohh ok  
ThatLimerickGuy : 6/27/2018 2:27 pm : link
In comment 14000486 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
I guess the nfl hiding the findings were just for shits and giggles.

Thereís a massive difference between doing something you know is dangerous and doing something knowing exactly how itís dangerous. I mean you do know that, correct?

More and more players are cashing out early, and more and more families are not allowing their children to play. That isnít grandstanding against a social issue, itís making a more educated decision on yours or your childís future. So if a poster above states he wish he knew about CTE back when he played, a response telling him ďno shit itís dangerous, what did you expectĒ is smarmy as all hell.


Let me put it a simpler way which may be easier for you to understand.

Should a boxer who fought for 15 years be surprised if he finds out that he or she has massive longstanding brain injuries? Even if nobody ever showed that person scientific evidence about that possibility?

Then again I guess because I have a different opinion that isn't all sunshine, rainbows and victimization about everything in this world I must be smarmy.


RE: I bet an alarming amount of high school football players  
njm : 6/27/2018 3:26 pm : link
In comment 14000357 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
That donít go on to play college or pro end up developing CTE. May not be proof of it right now, but it seems unavoidable. If I had known back in HS about all of this I very well may have avoided football altogether, despite it being an amazing and unique outlet.


If the problem is as extensive as you suggest, it would have shown up in CDC statistics already, as it would almost exclusively affect males.
RE: RE: Ohh ok  
Giantology : 6/27/2018 3:33 pm : link
In comment 14000869 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 14000486 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


I guess the nfl hiding the findings were just for shits and giggles.

Thereís a massive difference between doing something you know is dangerous and doing something knowing exactly how itís dangerous. I mean you do know that, correct?

More and more players are cashing out early, and more and more families are not allowing their children to play. That isnít grandstanding against a social issue, itís making a more educated decision on yours or your childís future. So if a poster above states he wish he knew about CTE back when he played, a response telling him ďno shit itís dangerous, what did you expectĒ is smarmy as all hell.



Let me put it a simpler way which may be easier for you to understand.

Should a boxer who fought for 15 years be surprised if he finds out that he or she has massive longstanding brain injuries? Even if nobody ever showed that person scientific evidence about that possibility?

Then again I guess because I have a different opinion that isn't all sunshine, rainbows and victimization about everything in this world I must be smarmy.



You seem to be conveniently omitting that this isn't a matter of suddenly being showed scientific evidence. This was scientific evidence that was HIDDEN from the players for the express purpose of downplaying the seriousness of these injuries and full extent of the damage being done.

Yes, you are a smarmy fuck, for these and many other reasons.
...  
christian : 6/27/2018 3:55 pm : link
It takes effort to *not* get there's a difference between something that's assumed to be dangerous and something that is exponentially more dangerous and materially different than the conventional wisdom previously assumed.

It's like lead poisoning -- for centuries it was known massive acute exposure to lead was dangerous, but the conventional wisdom was limited exposure was OK. And then science and research advanced, and everyone realized holy shit this way worse and has *different* effects than we thought.

RE: ...  
ThatLimerickGuy : 6/27/2018 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14000947 christian said:
Quote:
It takes effort to *not* get there's a difference between something that's assumed to be dangerous and something that is exponentially more dangerous and materially different than the conventional wisdom previously assumed.

It's like lead poisoning -- for centuries it was known massive acute exposure to lead was dangerous, but the conventional wisdom was limited exposure was OK. And then science and research advanced, and everyone realized holy shit this way worse and has *different* effects than we thought.


"conventional wisdom"

According to who? Which person's wisdom?

And if the person who continually drank water known to have lead develops lead poisoning they are in the same boat.

What aren't you getting?

Indulge me for a second here.

If I could travel back in time to the year 1750, before football was invented, and show someone two grown men running headfirst into one another would they say that is:

a) A fairly safe activity
b) A moderately safe activity or
c) A dangerous activity.

Stop confusing the medical evidence side of it with common sense.

Sure you want to say that these guys couldn't possibly know that a condition called CTE might exist one day? Fine who could know that or what it was going to be called.

Does everyone who even has ever WATCHED a game of football know that there is a chance to get serious head trauma? Yes and if you say no then you are lying to yourself.

The social justice brigade doesn't get that "CTE" isn't this new phenomenon. Gladiators in Rome probably had it. It was just never diagnosed as what it is called now. We can thank science for naming it and sure in the context of bettering society I am glad that we all understand it better.

I just can't have too much sympathy for the guy who jumps off of a 50 foot cliff and then complains that he broke his legs when he fell, especially if the guy made that decision because he knew he was going to be paid millions to do it.
Everyone knew you could get a concussion during a football game.  
baadbill : 6/27/2018 5:00 pm : link
However nobody knew that playing football could result in early dementia - even in the absence of a single diagnosed concussion.

Hell, that's why the discovery of CTE is so important and being so extensively studied over the past 15 years or so.
I get what most are saying...  
Kev in Cali : 6/27/2018 10:36 pm : link
There are some that say, hey, if you get sick down the road, I told ya so. Players now know this is a real condition. And rightfully so; they know the risks and the get the reward in the form of millions of dollars and are willing to accept those risks.

My argument is that it could very well possibly be a real condition in everyone, regardless of playing football at any level or brain trauma from a car accident. Fact is not all NFL players get CTE. Not all boxers get CTE. However, the only brains being studied for CTE, that I know of, are of NFL players or those of high impact to the head sports.

We truly won't know how bad CTE is until they start dissecting everyones brains for comparison, or every suicide for starters....

During my 20+ military career, I've heard of folks committing suicide in their 30's and even early 40's, it was so random and even one or myself knowing the person would have no idea why or what was the trigger to commit. Is CTE merely a contact sport phenomenon or can it potentially exist in every population or career out there?

This said, I do wish the scientist and docs out there the best of study to determine what the hell causes this disease.


RE: brain cancer from cell phones and wireless  
WideRight : 6/28/2018 9:54 am : link
In comment 14000433 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
is a way bigger concern than CTE. Especially for kids because their cells multiply so fast. France has already outlawed wireless in schools. England and Germany are considering the same, based on evidence presented by leading researchers.

CTE is definitely a concern. But that doctor who was on the PBS documentary struck me as a crusader who was being driven by passion rather than sound scientific evidence.

I think we should take precautions against CTE. Like concussion protocols and adjusting sports to make them safer. I played both hockey and soccer in high school, and I can tell you the head takes way more abuse in soccer. Yet, the rest of the world, where soccer is king,is not going nuts about CTE.

So, to me, CTE is definitely a worry, especially if you have kids who want to play football. But the hysteria about it has been way magnified by social media.








And HIV infected Zombies who infect innocent kids through thier computer screens! 14 middle schoolers have already died, and another 2314 are known to be affected and are infecting their classmates as we speak

Crazzy thing is social media won't say a peep about it because, because once its out all the major techs will go belly-up. This centuries biggest conspracy by far.
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