In today's off-day exercise, you get to pick one and only one player to target for a trade and you have to say what you would give up in return. You can shoot for the moon with a guy like DeGrom and be willing to give up some premium value in return (if you're being reasonable) or target one of the half-year rentals like Hamels and offer up a lot less (but it will still take more than just a limited package like Adams and Mckinney). What does the algorithm in your head project as the best do-able deal for the Yankees? My current thinking (subject to change on a daily basis)...
Target: Syndergaard
Compensation: Frazier, Drury, Sheffield, Abreu.
I know, I know, that's a lot to give up. But if it's not painful, it's not realistic.
From the Yankees perspective
--They are getting a proven, top-of-the-rotation, 25-year old with 3 1/2 years left of team control who will slot right in as the #2 starter behind Severino (and they didn't have to give up Torres, Andujar, or Florial). Think about how huge it would be to have two young aces under team control until 2022! The only downside is Syndergaard's history of injuries, but that's all part of the equation that makes him available for a manageable/reasonable price tag.
--They are giving up two young position players who have proven they belong in the Majors, but are buried on the Yankees depth chart; and two of their top pitching prospects, one in Triple A, the other in single A. It's the pitchers that make it painful for the Yankees, but no pain, no gain; and while the two check in as the team's top two pitching prospects according to MLB. com, I'm not convinced they're all that more likely to reach stardom than some of the other arms in the system like Medina, Loaisiga, Stephan, Sauer, Schmidt, Whitlock, and more. Sheffield tops the list based on probability of success, not necessarily upside.
From the Mets perspective
--They are getting two young, starting quality position players under team control (Frazier for five more years, Drury for three) and two very highly regarded pitching prospects, one of whom is ready to make his major league debut (and should slot in right away as a mid-rotation guy), the other just a year or two away (with a fastball that reaches triple digits and two other plus pitches). How often do you get that combination of production and potential without having to give up your veteran #1 starter (DeGrom)?
--They are giving up something that no team ever wants to give up, a young, proven, top-of-rotation pitcher still with years of team control. And to their cross-town rival.
p.s.--I'm not sure how often teams package more than four players in a trade for just one in return, but I would be willing to add another player or two to sweeten the deal: i.e., German, Adams, Acevedo, or one of the established middle-relievers (hopefully not Green or Holder, I love them, but not enough to stand in the way of a deal for Syndergaard).
To me he's a thrower who's more interested in what the gun says and striking everyone out than pitching effectively like Sevy does.
He's a six inning pitcher at best and no more unless he changes and from what I can see he doesn't seem like a guy that wants to. Maybe a change of scenery would change that but I wouldn't count on it.
Debt, deGrom, Tanaka would be an unreal 1,2,3. Factor in our bullpen and that sounds enticing to me. I really like Frazier and want him to be.a part of this teams future however, I would really like to see what Sheffield can do in the bigs too before trading him. A lefty starter, he’ll a lefty arm in general is a big need down the road with CC likely done, and Montgomery still in recovery.
p.s.--Torres and Andujar coming up as fellow rookies reminds me a little of when Fred Lynn and Jim Rice debuted the same year. Lynn had more hype as a rookie, but Rice had the Hall of Fame career; and I wonder if the same could be true of Torres and Andujar.
We still need a SP for the 2nd half and playoffs. I don't want to give up a top prospect or a big package without getting someone controllable for a year or two past this season.
I have 2 untouchables: Florial and Sheffield. There is only 1 player I would give Sheffield up for that is DeGrom. He is under contract through 2020 and he is a top 5 pitcher.
Other than that I still like Fulmer from Det. I think that if he gets out of there and on a team with a winning culture he will have Verlander/Cole turn around.
People I will part with: Adams, Drury, Austin, Montgomery, Wade to name a few.
p.s.--Torres and Andujar coming up as fellow rookies reminds me a little of when Fred Lynn and Jim Rice debuted the same year. Lynn had more hype as a rookie, but Rice had the Hall of Fame career; and I wonder if the same could be true of Torres and Andujar.
I don't want to give up Andular either and I don't want Syndergaard. Keep Drury in the trade for DeGrom and throw in another top prospect on top of your offer for Thor and I'm in.
Even though I like Frazier a lot and want to keep him, to get DeGrom I'd
part with him. Not for Thor though.
This is the guy I want too, but the problem is that he's back now and the Giants are 8-2 over their last 10. He's probably not available.
Then I'm passing on a big package that includes the players you mentioned. I'm only going to give up that much for an Ace.
If I can't get one, I'm sitting tight and seeing what I can do from within first. Then if that doesn't work out I'm going for an established pro, innings eater type guy who won't cost nearly as much in either quantity or quality.
I'm not sold on Gary for the long term, and that was before his awful start to the season
Jameson Taillon too.
Funny - i said same to my buddy the other day. Gray should have some value as he's under control and Happ is a rental.
I'm not sold on Gary for the long term, and that was before his awful start to the season
Yes, that would be idiotic
Agree to a point - theyre going to lose kids in the Rule 5 draft so they need to package a few to get something in return or risk losing quality assets for nothing.
I don't trade Gleyber/Miggy for anyone. Frazier needs to be a young under contract potential top 2 starter.
I trade anyone in the lower levels to get a frontline guy. People saying Florial is untouchable - but would trade Frazier - are insane.
Lefty starter would be great for Yankee Stadium. Moving Gardy opens up space in the OF and moves a contract. Moving Gray gets rid of the missing the plate by 3 feet while nibbling around the edges.
Lefty starter would be great for Yankee Stadium. Moving Gardy opens up space in the OF and moves a contract. Moving Gray gets rid of the missing the plate by 3 feet while nibbling around the edges.
All due respect but this is ridiculous. Arizona is in 1st place and have Pollock, Peralta and Jay in the OF. There is a 0% chance they would do that.
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And if they were, the asking price would be outrageous, so those two aren't in the mix (as I see it at least).
Then I'm passing on a big package that includes the players you mentioned. I'm only going to give up that much for an Ace.
If I can't get one, I'm sitting tight and seeing what I can do from within first. Then if that doesn't work out I'm going for an established pro, innings eater type guy who won't cost nearly as much in either quantity or quality.
Something's lost, but something's gained... - ( New Window )
Would be a major upset if they don't... but Arizona isn't trading him for 2 veterans and a PTNL. First place teams don't trade their ace
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for Bumgarner. If the pieces are equal in terms of deGrom/Bumgarner (which I don't think it will be,Mets will ask for much more to justify a trade w/Yankees),I'd go w/MadBum,a lefty who has proven to be a big game pitcher in post season!
This is the guy I want too, but the problem is that he's back now and the Giants are 8-2 over their last 10. He's probably not available.
I agree It was in response to the question of who I'd target. The only hope is that between now & July 31st, they start losing! Otherwise,it's Happ/Hamels territory & if Hamels won't be traded w/o his $20 million option being enforced for next year, I'd go after Happ!
While CC has been good, he was running out of gas at the end of last year, I wouldn't have confidence he would last through the post-season.
Not sure who the target should be, but that would be an OK move.
Otherwise, I really don't want to make moves
Inferior deals are a Wilpon specialty!
Cole Hamels is probably an ideal candidate. Two Padres' pitchers, Tyson Ross (having a good season) and Clayton Richard, wouldn't cost the prospect haul like Thor, and would provide stability to the rotation.
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but are really unlikely to trade for him.
Would be a major upset if they don't... but Arizona isn't trading him for 2 veterans and a PTNL. First place teams don't trade their ace
Agreed. That was like a bad fantasy baseball offer.
This is exactly why it's going to be quite hard for the Yankees to land an "ace" (at least one with an ace resume pitching well). Teams don't trade these kind of pitchers without blue chip headliners. The scouting/analytics guys earn their money here... looking for a "Verlander" who can be "fixed" or a lesser name with good stuff who can get the job done. Happ is a very good target for the Yankees however.
mid tier starter or two to absorb innings and let the kids stay within safe workloads?
1st baseman as insurance. strangely enough.
relief pitcher to replace Robertson at the end of the year and power through a playoff game if needed or minimize wear and tear on delicate or working under limits starters like Tanaka and the kids ( and to keep needed pieces from the Astros and Sox...or even to make the market higher in relief pitchers. Cashman bluffing to make the long term competitors pay dearly)
Back up catcher someplace in the minors just in case.
Buyers but for cement pieces for this and next year.
Id be stunned if the Yankees deal with the Mets, Baltimore or Pittsburgh.
Id be fine if they held steady and fine if they took small pieces.
I think Andujar, Bird, Frazier, Sanchez, Tanaka all have risk factors that make them GM killers. Potential could be great. As in All Star great. But all have gaps that deserve back up options in the minors.
Who knows? Maybe we really could a deal with the Mets or Baltimore.
We have front office talent we could trade to be part of the advisors surrounding the Wilpons or DAngelos. Randy Levine straight up for DeGrom or Machado. We can add Ellsbury or Shreve if the Mets or Orioles insist. (but only one of them...we dont want a Division or City rival getting too strong).
Levine is really good at making comments about star talent after bruising arbitration processes. Very motivating FO guy. And he is also good at assuring aging stars never leave. Ellsbury might chip in 60 games a year and someone has to pitch innings when the game is likely lost already.
Hidden Gems just waiting for an entreprenurial owner
He's made about $10 million so far in his career which means he's going to want to max his earnings as this will be his only chance.
Chapman will still be signed for more years so the closer spot with the Yankees won't be open.
The Yankees aren't going to offer him a qualifying offer which will be in the $18 million a year range, which means no draft compensation for the Yankees
Some team is going to offer him big money.
Add him to a package for DeGrom and the Mets get a high end closer who they could flip for even more prospects, and the Yankees don't lose him for nothing. That might allow the Yankees to keep Sheffield or Frazier. An all star bullpen piece has good value.
He's made about $10 million so far in his career which means he's going to want to max his earnings as this will be his only chance.
Chapman will still be signed for more years so the closer spot with the Yankees won't be open.
The Yankees aren't going to offer him a qualifying offer which will be in the $18 million a year range, which means no draft compensation for the Yankees
Some team is going to offer him big money.
Add him to a package for DeGrom and the Mets get a high end closer who they could flip for even more prospects, and the Yankees don't lose him for nothing. That might allow the Yankees to keep Sheffield or Frazier. An all star bullpen piece has good value.
The Mets would have absolutely no interest in Betances. If they deal DeGrom it signals a rebuild. They aren't paying Betances for 1 year and then giving him an extension at 32 years old. Excellent pitcher but not a fit at all. If they deal DeGrom it's going to be for players with 5-6 years of control.
I kinda think he's more of a threat to Shreve than anyone else for this season.
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he's going to be a free agent next year when he'll turn 31.
He's made about $10 million so far in his career which means he's going to want to max his earnings as this will be his only chance.
Chapman will still be signed for more years so the closer spot with the Yankees won't be open.
The Yankees aren't going to offer him a qualifying offer which will be in the $18 million a year range, which means no draft compensation for the Yankees
Some team is going to offer him big money.
Add him to a package for DeGrom and the Mets get a high end closer who they could flip for even more prospects, and the Yankees don't lose him for nothing. That might allow the Yankees to keep Sheffield or Frazier. An all star bullpen piece has good value.
The Mets would have absolutely no interest in Betances. If they deal DeGrom it signals a rebuild. They aren't paying Betances for 1 year and then giving him an extension at 32 years old. Excellent pitcher but not a fit at all. If they deal DeGrom it's going to be for players with 5-6 years of control.
they could trade him for more prospects.
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Eh?
Insisting? That's a funny way to put it. And as I see it, I'm not clearing the farm, I'm finding a way for the Yankees to add a young, All-Star quality pitcher (who will be $-friendly through 2021) without having to clear it. What you see as half-empty, I see as half-full. They get to keep Torres and Andujar, they get to keep Florial, they get to keep Medina, Stephan, Whitlock, Loaisiga, Sauer, Schmidt, Perriera, Perez, Acevedo, Estrada, Adams (who may never be a starter, but could turn out to be a valuable relief pitcher). The success of the recent graduates like Sanchez, Severino, Judge, Torres, and Andujar means the farm system can withstand the hit from the loss of Frazier, Sheffield, etc. (just as it's withstood the loss of Mateo, Rutherford, Kaprielian, Fowler, Guzman, etc.)
I keep Sheffield. He should be up by September.
Those high end low level guys are the ones that we can dangle. Florial, Medina, Abreu, Drury, Perez, etc.
Ideally Frazier replaces Gardner next season. I only deal him for a deGrom. Not sure where the belief that he's no longer a prospect bc he lost prospect eligibility came from.
Yeah, i dont think people grasp that the Yankees think they can win in the playoffs with 5 inning starts and a lights out bullpen - which they have
The spread between Florial’s ceiling and his 2018 to date is way too wide to consider trading him now.
You’re talking about a guy that could easily be a top 25 prospect in a year. He was well on his way there, looked great in ST, but then a slow minors season start plus an injury and he’s on the shelf and less thought of.
Lets face it: there isn't a starting pitcher out there we can get. The Mets aren't going to deal deGrom or Syndergard to the Yanks and Madbum isn't going anywhere. If they do get a middling pitcher, who comes out of the rotation ? German ? Lasagna?. I'd rather stretch out Warren, Cessa or Cole and hold on to our prospects than take a crapshoot on someone thats likely to be no better than Gray.
Abreu and Tate are clearer candidates to be moved. Both reasonably healthy and performing, close but not on the doorstep. Abreu has Sheff upside, maybe even higher, but clearly neither has the trade value that Sheff does. Acevedo has been okay and could potentially be a 2nd piece in a deal too.
Lets face it: there isn't a starting pitcher out there we can get. The Mets aren't going to deal deGrom or Syndergard to the Yanks and Madbum isn't going anywhere. If they do get a middling pitcher, who comes out of the rotation ? German ? Lasagna?. I'd rather stretch out Warren, Cessa or Cole and hold on to our prospects than take a crapshoot on someone thats likely to be no better than Gray.
Jose Abreu would be a great 1b target for the Yankees. He's having a bad month but 130 wRC+ March/April and 149 in May. Kind of guy who comes to the Yankees and goes bonkers.
I really think a mid-level SP (and perhaps exploring an option @ 1B if Bird just can't get it together - but I still think he will in time) will be enough. Sheffield can be a BP option later in the year - a LHP is needed there (Shreve is garbage)
Keep the kids - don't empty half the farm for one guy. All that does is shorten the potential window which is potentially very large right now.
I really think a mid-level SP (and perhaps exploring an option @ 1B if Bird just can't get it together - but I still think he will in time) will be enough. Sheffield can be a BP option later in the year - a LHP is needed there (Shreve is garbage)
Keep the kids - don't empty half the farm for one guy. All that does is shorten the potential window which is potentially very large right now.
because Betances is more replaceable, and his value takes a bigger dip if he's traded this off-season or at the deadline next year. I'm not saying I want to trade him, but I really don't want to lose him for nothing which is what happens if we wait. no chance he resigns with the Yankees.
Ah!! They problems of wealth.
Cashman turned Beltran, Miller, and Chapman, into making the rest of the league their farm system.
I can understand that comparison but Sevy is so much more of a complete pitcher than Thor. Sevy wants to get you out. He's not afraid to rely on his slider or change up if its dominant that night.
Thor seems to me to want to strike everyone out and is more a thrower than pitcher. He gets his pitch count up high too often for my liking by wanting the K so much.
I think the comparison is there because of their great velocity but it stops there for me.
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I don't understand why anyone would want to move Betances right now in a year where the team can win a World Series. Bullpens are crucial more than ever in October now and he's an elite SU man.
I really think a mid-level SP (and perhaps exploring an option @ 1B if Bird just can't get it together - but I still think he will in time) will be enough. Sheffield can be a BP option later in the year - a LHP is needed there (Shreve is garbage)
Keep the kids - don't empty half the farm for one guy. All that does is shorten the potential window which is potentially very large right now.
because Betances is more replaceable, and his value takes a bigger dip if he's traded this off-season or at the deadline next year. I'm not saying I want to trade him, but I really don't want to lose him for nothing which is what happens if we wait. no chance he resigns with the Yankees.
But you have to think about the teams that would be looking to acquire a RP like Betances right now.
Anyone who wants to acquire him for a year and a half is obviously in win-now mode. We don't want to help Houson or Boston (or really any other AL team with playoff aspirations) and even if we send Betances to an NL team, that team isn't going to want to part with anything that can help now.
So, basically if you deal Betances now, our bullpen takes a hit and what we get in return probably will come in the form of prospects who are a year or two away.
It would be hard to find a good match.
yatqb : 11:12 am : link : reply
someone who can throw a shutout but won’t cost our top prospects.
The guy simply can't stay healthy. I'd rather have a middling inning eater than a guy with a higher ceiling who is going to be shelved.
I know it won't be cheap but I hope Cash is at least making a call to them. He'd lock down our pen while keeping him away from the other top AL teams needing a guy like him.
Plus he could be huge next year if we don't keep Robertson. If they kept Robbie then the pen is even deeper all year.
I know it won't be cheap but I hope Cash is at least making a call to them. He'd lock down our pen while keeping him away from the other top AL teams needing a guy like him.
Plus he could be huge next year if we don't keep Robertson. If they kept Robbie then the pen is even deeper all year.
Still reportedly asking for "tier 1" prospects and they will get it. Amazing/team friendly deal. Not sure the 2 teams matchup all that well.
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I know they asked for Devers to start from the Sox but I believe that's because the Sox don't have enough top prospects to offer.
I know it won't be cheap but I hope Cash is at least making a call to them. He'd lock down our pen while keeping him away from the other top AL teams needing a guy like him.
Plus he could be huge next year if we don't keep Robertson. If they kept Robbie then the pen is even deeper all year.
Still reportedly asking for "tier 1" prospects and they will get it. Amazing/team friendly deal. Not sure the 2 teams matchup all that well.
Yeah I'm sure it'll be an expensive deal for whoever gets him if he's dealt at all. I'd be up for trading some top prospects for him though. Just a matter of who and how many.
Hopefully at the very least Cash showing interest would drive the price up for a team like the Astros. About time someone else paid a Yankee type tax to get a player.
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to the middle of the rotation why would we even bother with this trade?
Because I'm not satisfied adding to the middle of the rotation, I want to add to the top of the rotation. That's where the hole exists. Someone who can push Tanaka into the #3 spot, not someone who will fall in behind Tanaka.
I guess I just don’t see the upside being worth it. I like Syndergaard but his injury history worrisome. He’s never even come close to 200 innings and would be moving to the AL East. I simply don’t do this trade.
I really wouldn't try to trade for Syndergaard. Something tells me the ROI wouldn't be worth it.
I really wouldn't try to trade for Syndergaard. Something tells me the ROI wouldn't be worth it.
Giants have no reason to move relievers. They are 2 games out of the WC and Watson has an insanely good deal (Smith as well).
I really wouldn't try to trade for Syndergaard. Something tells me the ROI wouldn't be worth it.
Your a yankees fan now?
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If we're looking for a reliever, I still think I'd call SF about Smith or Watson. Would probably be slightly cheaper than Hand.
I really wouldn't try to trade for Syndergaard. Something tells me the ROI wouldn't be worth it.
Giants have no reason to move relievers. They are 2 games out of the WC and Watson has an insanely good deal (Smith as well).
I don't think they're going to be buyers at the deadline, but maybe I'm wrong. They're not good enough to contend and can probably get a decent haul for one of those two relievers.
1. Player X will cost too much to acquire
2. Team X isn't going to want to trade Player X
3. Player X isn't good enough to trade for or no one wants to give up what it'll cost to acquire him
So, these threads are usually exercises in futility.
People "in the know" seem to think the Mets have no interest in trading with the Yankees or would need everything that isn't nailed down plus some more to trade for deGrom/Syndegaard. I also don't see the Giants trading Bumgarner considering they've barely had him and yet they're still close to the division and wild card leaders. Outside of those guys, there doesn't seem to be any other elite pitchers possibly available. I think Chris Archer could turn it around in a winning environment, but I'm sure they would want much more than I'd be willing to give up when you take his recent numbers into account.
I think we'll have to be looking for JA Happ-types. I have zero interest in Brad Hand if the rumors of what the Padres are asking for is true. Besides, we really don't need him anyway.
I would not however trade him for a package that didn't involve getting help this year.
Keep in mind that the roster crunch will not be as bad this winter, as the Yanks have a number of roster spots coming open. Gardner, CC, DRob, Walker and Warren all hit FA this winter.
AJ Cole is out of options and might be non-tendered. Cessa is also out of options and might be traded or non-tendered. Ben Heller might be out of options and may well be taken off the 40 man roster as he had TJ surgery and will miss a good portion of 2019 as well. Shreve will lose his roster spot- but may be gone before the season is over.
Torreyes is out of options and might be non-tendered as the Yanks have other choices who do have options- Wade, Avelino, etc.
At the same time, the Yanks must add back Ellsbury and Montgomery from the 60 day DL. They don't count on the 40 while on the 60 day DL, but once the season ends, all teams must add back players on the 60 day DL to the 40 man roster or expose them to waivers.
That means that somewhere between 5 and 8 spots will open on the 40 man roster when all is said and done this fall.
Looking ahead to this winter, as best I can tell, the following would need to be added or eligible. I will start with the most likely to be added to the roster.
The first tier of Adams, Tate, Sheffield and Carroll are the most likely adds.
The next tier (IMO) are Avelino, Feyereisen, Rogers and Swanson. Rogers and Swanson are not high-end guys, but both could be ML SP and have some value that would likely result in someone targetting them.
After that, there are a lot of guys who are eligible, but really don't appear necessary to add (because they would be unlikely to stick or are not appealing).
That group includes: Espinal, Gomez, Mesa (who got picked and didn't stick last year), Tarpley, Gittens, Hendrix, Green, Crawford and Perez.
Some of those guys have been injured a lot, others have taken a step back this year. Others don't project as major leaguers.
Of course, the Yanks can always make trades that thin the group or take away roster spots. However, the Yanks SHOULD be able to protect the key players they do not want to lose without too much effort.
I have zero interest in Brad Hand if the rumors of what the Padres are asking for is true. Besides, we really don't need him anyway.
We don't? You can't be happy with Shreve being the only leftie in the pen besides Chapman.
Plus Hand helps not only this year and going forward especially if we don't keep Robertson but maybe just as important, we keep him away from the other AL contenders. He helps us by making the pen even stronger and can't hurt us pitching for someone else. Win/Win IMO.
Like I said earlier though, it really depends on what the cost is. I'd give up a decent amount for him but not go overboard.
I know it won't be cheap but I hope Cash is at least making a call to them. He'd lock down our pen while keeping him away from the other top AL teams needing a guy like him.
THIS! +1
Helps us, hurts the competition.
Plus he could be huge next year if we don't keep Robertson. If they kept Robbie then the pen is even deeper all year.
Between that and being in division I want no part of that trade
With his years of control "every" team in baseball would be in on him, not just 2018 contenders. Costs nothing, lots of control = even the Mets would likely inquire (yes their farm sucks) just giving an example.
But why would Snell be on the market? He's got 4 years of team control left....can't see Tampa offering him in a trade now.
Which is why he is probably working at ESPN instead of with a ML team...
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someone will have the ability and the wherewithal to trump us. Well, I think. Other systems have more star power in their farms, but I'm not sure how many of those teams are really in the market for a front-end starter. Boston could certainly use one, but they have no one to deal. Houston could move a high-end guy like Tucker, but their need is really for bullpen help. Chicago doesn't have much of a farm at this point. So where would Snell go?
But why would Snell be on the market? He's got 4 years of team control left....can't see Tampa offering him in a trade now.
It's a weak pitching market and Tampa's not likely to be competitive for a couple years. NYY could have held onto Andrew Miller, who had a couple more years left on his deal, but with a paucity of stud relief pitchers on the market and a couple teams - Chicago and Cleveland - with glaring bullpen needs they maximized value. It's the same reason the Mets would even consider trading deGrom or Syndergaard (even if they don't end up doing it).
Say they wait a couple years to deal Snell and he has injury problems, or he looks more like an okay 4 than a legit 2 and there are half a dozen better starters on the block. When you have an opportunity to maximize value, sometimes it makes sense to take it. If they dealt Archer a couple years ago the return would have been monstrous. Now he looks like a league average pitcher and he turns 30 this year.
I'm not sold on Gary for the long term, and that was before his awful start to the season
I agree about Gary. but why include anything else. I'd look at Sanchez for Thor even up. with Judge and Stanton manning DH for the next 10 years, and Gary inflexible at a young age, where will he play and hit in three years?
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insane for the Yankees to offer up Sanchez and Sheffield? Or Sanchez and Drury?
I'm not sold on Gary for the long term, and that was before his awful start to the season
I agree about Gary. but why include anything else. I'd look at Sanchez for Thor even up. with Judge and Stanton manning DH for the next 10 years, and Gary inflexible at a young age, where will he play and hit in three years?
All due respect but if YOU see these concerns why wouldn't the Mets? And their top prospect is a 1b (and 1b only).
You win with players like Sanchez a lot more than you lose.
You win with players like Sanchez a lot more than you lose.
By fWAR 3rd best catcher in baseball since his debut and that's with far less games played than the top 2 (part of that is his own durability) but still.
Also an ex-Indian, ex-Angel, ex-Rays, etc...
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Kirby Yates is having a monster first half
Also an ex-Indian, ex-Angel, ex-Rays, etc...
Dunedin mentioned Richard and a reliever. Yates (on the Padres with Richard) history with the Yankees was relevant. It wasn't a Yankee swipe.
I don't know about that Dave. I can see Cash adding a guy who can help us get to the postseason but I really don't see an Ace or top of the rotation guy being available that would be a definite, no questions asked better option in the playoffs than what we have.
I don't see a Happ or Fulmer beating out Sevy, Tanaka, or CC, to pitch in the postseason. We'd have to see the season play out to see who emerges as the better pitcher between Gray, German, Loasiga, and whatever innings guy they get.
I think Cash plays it smart if there's no Ace available, and gets a guy who helps in the regular season while not giving up too much. If he gets hot and pitches great, and beats out the other guys for postseason starts, all the better, but I don't see anyone outside of an Ace who cracks our top three.
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Not sure who, but there's no way he goes into this postseason with this rotation as currently constituted. I trust Cashman to make the best deal possible for the team. They're going to have to give up some pieces, but if it's for the right guy and right situation, I see Cashman doing it and making a real solid trade for the franchise. He's been killing it. I trust him. No reason for any Yankees fan to not trust him at this point.
I don't know about that Dave. I can see Cash adding a guy who can help us get to the postseason but I really don't see an Ace or top of the rotation guy being available that would be a definite, no questions asked better option in the playoffs than what we have.
I don't see a Happ or Fulmer beating out Sevy, Tanaka, or CC, to pitch in the postseason. We'd have to see the season play out to see who emerges as the better pitcher between Gray, German, Loasiga, and whatever innings guy they get.
I think Cash plays it smart if there's no Ace available, and gets a guy who helps in the regular season while not giving up too much. If he gets hot and pitches great, and beats out the other guys for postseason starts, all the better, but I don't see anyone outside of an Ace who cracks our top three.
Think you kind of mis-read my post. Didn't say it was an absolute definite. I said if Cashman sees what is in his mind the right guy/situation, that I think he would do it.
Kay just read something on his show that a Yankee scout was at the Tigers game scouting Fulmer, FWIW. If Cashman can get a guy he likes for a price he can live with, I do think he does, especially with how close they came last season and where they are right now.
Not sure I agree that someone like a Fulmer can't beat out a CC or Tanaka. Eh. Let's see where CC and Tanaka are in September. Even before getting hurt, Tanaka was very much hit or miss thus far this season. Not saying it's a definite that one of those two can be beat out for the postseason, but I'm surely not going to rule it out 100% quite yet, either.
When Tanaka comes back I'd love to see the Yankees use German/Loaisiga as "tandem starters" - use them together and only ask each of them to pitch 3-4 innings per start. They just might be able to form an extremely effective starting pitcher if used that way and helps cut down on their innings.
My point was = if they don't think they're a postseason team this year, it would make sense to deal a few assets to strengthen a weak farm system and add a couple of pieces. I don't think they're good enough to make any type of run this year and they don't have the chips to make any really major acquisitions - so, basically they are what they are for 2018 as far as I can tell - and that team probably isn't good enough to be a Wild Card. They're barely even above .500 right now.
Guys like Watson or Smith won't land elite prospects, but perhaps it would be more worthwhile to package them and try to add a little to their pipe.
Maybe they'd be 100% unwilling to deal them. What do I know. Just throwing it out there.
Sheffield only have to be called up by August 31 to be post-season eligible. July 31 is the non-waiver trade deadline.
German threw 125 innings last year, so if the Yanks add the traditional 30+ innings to his workload, he would cap out around 155-160 IP. German has thrown 64 IP this season. He is about on pace for 130 or so. He should be fine from a workpace concern. The question the Yanks need to answer for themselves is whether German's tendency to have a single "blow up" inning in his starts should eliminate him from the rotation this season (though he should be a piece of the rotation going forward).
Remember that if German starts to decline, Sheffield is probably at the point where he could be called up almost immediately. With that said, the All Star break is about 2 and a half weeks away. That means about a 10 day layoff for the back end of the rotation.
Just a WAG on my part, but I would guess that if nothing drastic changes, the Yanks activate Tanaka next week and farm out Loaisiga. Then, the Yanks send German to AAA over the All Star break to allow him to make a start during the layoff. At that point, the Yanks could decide whether to give Sheffield some run or whether to recall German.
My guess is that the Yanks would call up Sheffield to determine whether he is the answer before the trade deadline. If he flops, they go back to German or look for a trade.
Something else to consider, Tanaka was not good in the first half last season, but was pretty good after the All Star break- and outstanding in the post-season. Gray was so-so as a Yankee after the trade- but had a bad playoff start against Cleveland, but a VERY good start against Houston.
The Yanks aren't looking for 7 great innings from their SP outside of Sevy. They only need 5 solid innings and then can go to their pen.
Sometimes he looks brilliant - other times he's horrendous. A lot of pitchers have good and bad outings, obviously - but his are fairly extreme. And yeah, we know about the drastic home/road splits. It's just hard to figure out if he's a guy you can rely on to start a postseason game or not.
Right now, I'd trust Sevvy (duh), CC, and Tanaka in postseason games. But that's really it right now I think unless Gray can find a groove and be more consistent both at home and on the road.
Sometimes he looks brilliant - other times he's horrendous. A lot of pitchers have good and bad outings, obviously - but his are fairly extreme. And yeah, we know about the drastic home/road splits. It's just hard to figure out if he's a guy you can rely on to start a postseason game or not.
Right now, I'd trust Sevvy (duh), CC, and Tanaka in postseason games. But that's really it right now I think unless Gray can find a groove and be more consistent both at home and on the road.
I agree with you arc. Unless an Ace becomes available which doesn't seem likely, there's really no one available out there I think is better than than those three.
That's why I can see Cash going for a guy who can eat some innings the rest of the way and help get us to the postseason but not be able to get someone who he can count on for sure once there.
He'll be smart no doubt when he deals and an innings eater, reliable starter could be just the perfect guy. One who'll help but won't break the bank to get.
You may be right but I have more faith in them in the postseason than I do Haap or Fulmer. Those guys would help get us there IMO, but not guys I could confidently say would be better than Tanaka or CC once we got there.
Now if there's a chance for DeGrom that's a different story. He'd not only help us get to the postseason he would be absolutely great following up Sevy in a game two, and I'd be real comfortable with CC and Tanaka following him. I think that's a pipe dream though.
That's what makes this year so hard. Don't want to mortgage the future but the game is winning championships. And we definitely had the assets to grab Verlander and a great shot to win last year especially with him with us instead of Houston. Houston keeps adding pieces too ala Cole and we don't want to keep being a step behind them.
The better the pitcher is that we acquire, the better chance there is of winning a Championship this year (and possibly a little after depending on the player), but the smaller the long-term window gets because of the dent it'll put in the pipeline.
The cheaper we go, the less we increase our chances in this particular year, but the wider the long-term contending window should be.
deGrom probably isn't realistic - but that's the move that makes NYY favorites to win it all easily. However, it is going to clear out a huge chunk of this farm system.
Happ helps, probably still doesn't make NYY favorites, but also doesn't sacrifice much long-term.
I still think the best option is a mid-level starter, but hey - I'd be lying if I said it isn't fun to dream about having Sevvy and deGrom as a 1-2.
They aren't going to get deGrom or Thor because the Mets won't deal with the Yanks. They aren't getting Bumgarner because SF is in the race.
Happ is nice, but not worth the "Yankee Premium" the Jays will charge. At best he's a #3 SP on the Yanks.
Just continue to develop Sheffield and German. Let Loaisiga develop further in AAA and wait for Stephan next year.
Don't "settle" for mid rotation unknowns in a trade at excessive prices.
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from a Championship. Just not sure if Tanaka and CC will prove to be enough in the postseason as #2 and #3 starters going up against stacked lineups in possibly Houston and Boston.
You may be right but I have more faith in them in the postseason than I do Haap or Fulmer. Those guys would help get us there IMO, but not guys I could confidently say would be better than Tanaka or CC once we got there.
Now if there's a chance for DeGrom that's a different story. He'd not only help us get to the postseason he would be absolutely great following up Sevy in a game two, and I'd be real comfortable with CC and Tanaka following him. I think that's a pipe dream though.
Not sure how I feel about that. Tanaka hasn't exactly been tearing it up even pre-injury. So, him as the #2 starter in the postseason kind of scares me alittle bit. I feel like both he and CC in the postseason will both kind of be 'toss-ups', as in they can either go out there and pitch gems, or get lit up. Remember, by the time the postseason rolls around, CC will be a bit more tired considering his age and it won't be hot/warm out anymore. Plus, they'll both be going up against great lineups.
Again, I want to emphasize that I'm not saying I 100% think they'll both be a problem/stink up the joint in the postseason, because I don't. But do I think both are a bit of a toss-up in the postseason this year as of right now? Yes. And, in the postseason you can't have both your 2 and 3 starters as toss-ups.
Like arc said, it really is a balancing act with this year and the future. But part of me thinks Cashman laid low last year at the trade deadline with Verlander (and perhaps any other pitchers that may have been available last July) with the mindset that if the team is at the top or near the top this upcoming trade deadline (which we are), that if there is a guy out there this year, he might be more likely to make a move for the right guy. The fact that the Yankees had a scout out there for Fullmer and Cashman said in an interview today that he's been in contact with alot of teams, including the Mets, are both interesting.
We'll see. Either way, I feel like we're in good hands with Cashman.
Prospects are like backup QB's. Everyone's favorite and HOFers in waiting.
I haven't read the entire thread but I heard today that the Yankees offered Sanchez, Frazier & Sheffield for deGrom and the Mets turned it down. I have no idea if that's true. We do know from Cashman's public comments that he's been talking to the Mets.
If that is true and the Mets turned it down they're idiots. I'm not sure I like it from the Yankees side if we're speculating but for the Mets? They'll never get another offer like that for one of their players.
Prospects are like backup QB's. Everyone's favorite and HOFers in waiting.
I haven't read the entire thread but I heard today that the Yankees offered Sanchez, Frazier & Sheffield for deGrom and the Mets turned it down. I have no idea if that's true. We do know from Cashman's public comments that he's been talking to the Mets.
If that is true and the Mets turned it down they're idiots. I'm not sure I like it from the Yankees side if we're speculating but for the Mets? They'll never get another offer like that for one of their players.
The Mets are petty - they're petrified of deGrom winning a World Series with the Yankees because of what the "perception" would be and they seem to care more about that than maximizing return and doing what's best for the future of the franchise.
It's basically a microcosm of why I stopped following them. Because it's not about winning there. It's about fucking bullshit.
Because the more comments I read on this thread, the more convinced I am that Syndergaard is the only "potentially affordable" player who can give the Yankees the kind of 1-2 punch that the Astros have in Verlander and Cole (which is what we all want).
p.s.--If it's your belief that the Yankees are going to add a starting pitcher via trade one way or another, then I say go big or go home. No half-measures. DeGrom and Bumgarner are not on the table, same goes for Blake (no relation to Matt) Snell. And it may also be true that Syndergaard is also unavailable for a reasonable (albeit painful) price, but at least with him it's not a total fantasy to believe a deal can get done. And given the 3 1/2 years of team control at well below free market prices, the Yankees aren't sacrificing the future for the present, because he would be very much a part of their future.
Because the more comments I read on this thread, the more convinced I am that Syndergaard is the only "potentially affordable" player who can give the Yankees the kind of 1-2 punch that the Astros have in Verlander and Cole (which is what we all want).
p.s.--If it's your belief that the Yankees are going to add a starting pitcher via trade one way or another, then I say go big or go home. No half-measures. DeGrom and Bumgarner are not on the table, same goes for Blake (no relation to Matt) Snell. And it may also be true that Syndergaard is also unavailable for a reasonable (albeit painful) price, but at least with him it's not a total fantasy to believe a deal can get done. And given the 3 1/2 years of team control at well below free market prices, the Yankees aren't sacrificing the future for the present, because he would be very much a part of their future.
No. That would not be enough to get the Mets to deal Noah to the Yankees. It’s likely not even close. Forget about the fact that the Mets won’t do business with the Yankees, which apparently continues to get ignored around here. People completely underestimate the going rate for young, cost controlled aces around here.
Because the more comments I read on this thread, the more convinced I am that Syndergaard is the only "potentially affordable" player who can give the Yankees the kind of 1-2 punch that the Astros have in Verlander and Cole (which is what we all want).
p.s.--If it's your belief that the Yankees are going to add a starting pitcher But I don't know what fun there is for s 4 year old doing the Lighthouse. The grounds around it and walking towards the inlet and the point, checking out the boats could be but walking those stairs in a cramped, hot as hell old Lighthouse isn't really fun IMO.
It's not like you get up to the top of Barney and there's an outside area to walk around. You pretty much just look out a window and take in the view. I think a kid would have more fun fishing or crabbing off a dock. via trade one way or another, then I say go big or go home. No half-measures. DeGrom and Bumgarner are not on the table, same goes for Blake (no relation to Matt) Snell. And it may also be true that Syndergaard is also unavailable for a reasonable (albeit painful) price, but at least with him it's not a total fantasy to believe a deal can get done. And given the 3 1/2 years of team control at well below free market prices, the Yankees aren't sacrificing the future for the present, because he would be very much a part of their future.
If I'm the Mets I'd jump at that because I think it's way too much for Syndergaard. It's a Yankee tax and then some IMO. Just look at what the Sox gave up for Sale, and compare it to this deal.
The Sox gave up top prospects and no major league players like Frazier and Drury and I think Sale is better than Thor. If we had to give up those two then less prospects get included because those two step right in now and start for th Mets.
Sheffield should be untouchable, and Frazier shouldn’t be included in a trade unless it’s for a top of the rotation starter under control. Unless you are getting a healthy MadBum, nobody can guarantee postseason success, why not just go with youth?
Definitely. I certainly don't mind trades, they should look to improve the team wherever possible, but i'm against any significant trades that involve our top prospects.
If Cashman agrees, that means the Yankees will more nearly target mid range SP, a relief pitcher and a good 1B who can hit left handed pitching. Maybe a high minors catcher?
All those pieces can help this year and next and the year after. Either as players or for trades.
But we need to remember that the Yankees know the makeup and the metrics of their players very well.
We don't know launch angle and velocity per pitch speed faced or who can hit a slider or curveball. We don't know spin rates and average late movement and command.
As someone mentioned, we fans thought Montero and Hughes were potential HOF decade long All Stars.
What I would watch for over the next few weeks is aligned "showcasing". Nothing detrimental to the teams record but clear and carefully selected chances to be noticed. So far, Loaisiga, Gallegos, Cessa, German, Warren, Holder, Shreve, Adams even Sheffield have had chances to shine. With mixed results. But as compared to a month ago (granted Tanaka and Drury injuries) the claim that the Yankees are stocked with guys on the verge has strengthened.
Conclusion: They have chips. They have the chips for a better than average gamble on a 2-3 SP and or a few cog players ( Relief, 1B, 3-5 Sp an option besides Kei at catcher).
They can also clear Rule 5 space by dealing for players lower in the minors who better fill in the pipeline
They do have enough room under the luxury tax calculation as each week passes.
We will know better after this weekend if the option to do nothing this year feels either more solid or weaker than it does now
KC was our AAAA team back then
12-11-1959 Traded by Kansas City Athletics with Joe DeMaestri and Kent Hadley to New York Yankees in exchange for Don Larsen, Hank Bauer, Norm Siebern and Marv Throneberry (December 11, 1959).
Marv Throneberry!!!! There's a player who played for both NY Teams.
You are correct --KC (pre- Charley Finlay) were indeed a AAAA team for the Yanks.
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and that's not unreasonable as a comparison. Thor is as effective as anyone in baseball when he pitches, but he hasn't stayed healthy. Thor has one 30-start season to his name.
I can understand that comparison but Sevy is so much more of a complete pitcher than Thor. Sevy wants to get you out. He's not afraid to rely on his slider or change up if its dominant that night.
Thor seems to me to want to strike everyone out and is more a thrower than pitcher. He gets his pitch count up high too often for my liking by wanting the K so much.
I think the comparison is there because of their great velocity but it stops there for me.
When you can't stay on the field it's time to lose the "Thor" nickname!