Were for Bob in Annapolis. I never met him except from his posts. Just that he had Annapolis in his handle. It’s a tragedy in today’s world what our first thoughts are
Apparently the shooter had a legal fight with the newspapers Â
Were for Bob in Annapolis. I never met him except from his posts. Just that he had Annapolis in his handle. It’s a tragedy in today’s world what our first thoughts are
“Dear reader: I created this page to defend myself. Now I'm suing the shit out of half of AA County and making corpses of corrupt careers and corporate entities.”
and the newspaper ran a story about it from the woman's perspective, so he sued the newspaper and when his suit was thrown out, he shot up the newspaper
That is very unsettling to be so close to something like this. These events are getting common enough that it is now routine for schools to develop plans...it is just very unsettling that mass shootings are so routine, and for too many people, to have them affect their lives first hand.
saying journalists were blaming Milo for the shooting. Why?
Have to blame someone. Of course you can't blame the wacko nutjob shooter.
Quote:
Right-wing provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos said he was being sarcastic when he told a reporter that he fantasized about the gunning down of journalists, after a massive social media backlash blamed him for inciting violence ahead of the Capital Gazette newspaper shooting on Thursday.
“I can’t wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight,” Mr. Yiannopoulosreportedly told the Observer over text message, in response to a question about a story on a New York City restaurant he is said to frequent.
When asked by Observer reporter Davis Richardson to elaborate on the statement, Mr. Yiannopoulos said it was his “standard response to a request for comment.” He also reportedly sent the same message to The Daily Beast’s Will Sommer.
Social media users immediately blamed Mr. Yiannopoulos for inciting violence against journalists after a gunman shot and killed five people and wounded several others Thursday afternoon at the Capital Gazette newspaper in Annapolis, Maryland.
Were for Bob in Annapolis. I never met him except from his posts. Just that he had Annapolis in his handle. It’s a tragedy in today’s world what our first thoughts are
I think you can blame the nu tjob perpetrators and the ones stoking the fires and encouraging the crazy. I'm not suggesting equal blame, but there is plenty to go around.
Violent nut jobs are just that-- violent and crazy. Crazy people don't do rational things. So when people in positions of power and influence validate or appear to validate, or suggest horrible things, it will resonate with certain people. It won't resonate with people with common sense, but those people weren't committing atrocities anyway. But it resonates with the crazies and there are a lot of crazies in this country. For certain people in power to throw their hands up and act as if they are completely unaware the existence of the crazies in our society or the potential power of suggestion is outrageous.
Part and parcel of being a leader at any level is having followers.
saying journalists were blaming Milo for the shooting. Why?
For this quote: “I can’t wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight.”
Clearly this is a reckless and fucked up comment. And Milo is an ass. Someday, a crazy follower may follow through on these words. But this particular crazy guy seemed to have a long standing beef with the paper.
But the rule of thumb for almost all of these breaking news scenarios is to take twitter with a grain of salt for at least 24 hrs.
I think you can blame the nu tjob perpetrators and the ones stoking the fires and encouraging the crazy. I'm not suggesting equal blame, but there is plenty to go around.
Violent nut jobs are just that-- violent and crazy. Crazy people don't do rational things. So when people in positions of power and influence validate or appear to validate, or suggest horrible things, it will resonate with certain people. It won't resonate with people with common sense, but those people weren't committing atrocities anyway. But it resonates with the crazies and there are a lot of crazies in this country. For certain people in power to throw their hands up and act as if they are completely unaware the existence of the crazies in our society or the potential power of suggestion is outrageous.
Part and parcel of being a leader at any level is having followers.
This guy began levying his threats to the paper well before Milo's text was shared. Furthermore, Milo is a POS, but what Milo sent in a private text to a reporter never had to be reported by the reporter did it? Milo didn't tweet it, didn't post it on a website, didn't say it on a public forum. He sent it privately to a reporter who reached out to him asking for a comment (two separate reporters from different outlets).
Public figures on the left side of the aisle have been literally, not sarcastically, advocating for violence for weeks if not 529 days. If you want to blame someone other than the shooter, I don't, for ratcheting up violence, there's plenty of blame on both sides.
I think there are other political leaders on both sides who have done far more recently to incite violence than Milo's private sarcastic tweet (really more left-leaning), but none are to blame in this case IMO.
I blame the shooter, and only the shooter.
I do believe overall as a society we have taken on a level of vitriol and outright hatred that is unhealthy and I wish would end, but I'll never blame others for the actions of deranged individuals.
I think you can blame the nu tjob perpetrators and the ones stoking the fires and encouraging the crazy. I'm not suggesting equal blame, but there is plenty to go around.
Violent nut jobs are just that-- violent and crazy. Crazy people don't do rational things. So when people in positions of power and influence validate or appear to validate, or suggest horrible things, it will resonate with certain people. It won't resonate with people with common sense, but those people weren't committing atrocities anyway. But it resonates with the crazies and there are a lot of crazies in this country. For certain people in power to throw their hands up and act as if they are completely unaware the existence of the crazies in our society or the potential power of suggestion is outrageous.
Part and parcel of being a leader at any level is having followers.
This guy began levying his threats to the paper well before Milo's text was shared. Furthermore, Milo is a POS, but what Milo sent in a private text to a reporter never had to be reported by the reporter did it? Milo didn't tweet it, didn't post it on a website, didn't say it on a public forum. He sent it privately to a reporter who reached out to him asking for a comment (two separate reporters from different outlets).
Public figures on the left side of the aisle have been literally, not sarcastically, advocating for violence for weeks if not 529 days. If you want to blame someone other than the shooter, I don't, for ratcheting up violence, there's plenty of blame on both sides.
I think there are other political leaders on both sides who have done far more recently to incite violence than Milo's private sarcastic tweet (really more left-leaning), but none are to blame in this case IMO.
I blame the shooter, and only the shooter.
I do believe overall as a society we have taken on a level of vitriol and outright hatred that is unhealthy and I wish would end, but I'll never blame others for the actions of deranged individuals.
If you can't see what Maxine Waters said or countless others was worse or being generous just as bad, than a private text from Milo, you are part of the problem with the division in society today.
People who can at least acknowledge faults on both sides are willing to explore ways to progress as a country together, not divided.
Milo sends this sentiment to reporters frequently. Who knows who else he shares those thoughts with. Dana Loesch, spokeswoman for the NRA, publicly said that reporters should be "curb-stomped."
I left political affiliations out of this. Those with audiences who incite violence in the overt way that some of these people and political leaders have, have lasting effects on the crazy and deranged segments of their followers.
As to the killer in this incident, I don't see how his long-standing beef and anger towards the paper exculpates those who have been attacking the press in recent times as the enemy of people.
If anything, the timeline of his history suggests a connection.
The article about him in 2011. He sued for defamation in 2012. He had a Twitter account that has been dormant since 2016, until right before yesterday's attack.
Clearly, this guy was deranged and people at the paper were concerned about him for years.
But it had been 7 years since the article and 6 years since his defamation suit. I think it's reasonable to ask "so why now?" Why now did he decide to open fire on the newsroom?
Is it so unreasonable to consider that now, more than ever, Ramos felt vindicated in his blood lust towards this press for revenge? That now, more than any other time I can remember, people in power are calling the press the enemy of the American people, and other influential people calling for their deaths, and violence upon them?
mass shootings/terrorist attacks/whatever you want to call them perpetrated by angry or deranged people killing random, innocent people have become almost a bi-weekly occurrence.
I hope my comments didn't upset the OP, but I find it hard to continue without getting the thread deleted if it's not going to eventually be deleted based on current content.
I think the event is tragic, and blame lies with one person.
If you want to blame others that's your right, but I do think it's also worth some solid consideration about the state of "journalism" today. And no, I'm not victim blaming, the people killed were innocent victims of a maniac, but I am saying the media is the cause for some of the rhetoric, for as much as it is rhetoric, there is some truth to it. Hopefully I don't seem like I'm backing away after dropping a comment like that, but I don't want to change this thread any further to something it wasn't intended for out of respect to the OP.
I just love how many people came to that idiot's defense Â
Those with audiences who incite violence in the overt way that some of these people and political leaders have, have lasting effects on the crazy and deranged segments of their followers.
Any evidence whatsoever that he's anyone's follower? Anything at all?
and I literally just came out of and active shooter response class less than an hour ago. Excellent class; learned alot but so sad that in this day and age that class is even offered.
where did I say that Ramos was a follower? I argued that it is fair to consider the effect that people in power / leaders have when they make radical statements and calls for violence because inherent to being a leader is having followers and so their messages carry weight. Included in that comment was the reality that there are enough crazy people out there who buy into the rhetoric and repeat it. So even if someone is hyperbolic when they call for journalists to be murdered or the enemy of the American people, it only stokes the irrational conviction and validates those thoughts in the crazy people who believe it.
If you can't see what Maxine Waters said or countless others was worse or being generous just as bad, than a private text from Milo, you are part of the problem with the division in society today.
People who can at least acknowledge faults on both sides are willing to explore ways to progress as a country together, not divided.
????????
Maxine Waters absolutely did not call for violence - she called for protests against administration officials when they are seen in public. Milo said he couldn't wait for people to be gunned down in the street.
I'm not blaming Milo for the shooting. But the climate of people calling for violence against reporters and the press is despicable. And that sure as shit isn't coming from "both sides".
If you can't see what Maxine Waters said or countless others was worse or being generous just as bad, than a private text from Milo, you are part of the problem with the division in society today.
People who can at least acknowledge faults on both sides are willing to explore ways to progress as a country together, not divided.
????????
Maxine Waters absolutely did not call for violence - she called for protests against administration officials when they are seen in public. Milo said he couldn't wait for people to be gunned down in the street.
Absolutely not "just as bad", let alone "worse".
You are being very liberal with your words and choosing for them to mean what you want them to mean.
someone saying that the media is our enemy incites violence to you, but another person saying to push back on an admin and its' representatives is not inciting violence. Neither explicitly calls for violence, but both wind up there. People seem to forget a congressman was shot in broad daylight on a baseball field.
Like most issues today people believe exactly what they want, twist half truths and rhetoric into facts, talk past each other, and don't change their mind.
You can very easily find 10 instances the past two weeks where members of the media, "journalists" tweeted out pictures crucifying the current admin for the immigration issue, and those images and tweets were shared thousands upon thousands of times, and guess what, the pictures were from the prior administration. and guess what, almost exclusively when the media members do this, it's always wrong the same way.
Sure they issue retractions, but look at the reach of the retractions or corrections compared with the original. the damage is done.
So like I said there is blame for the current state of affairs all around. Or not. I don't care to debate this anymore.
And Dana Loesch's comments, if you're going to use those as person calling for violence, clearly 100% indicates you did not personally read or hear those comments. You are parroting what someone else said. You are 100% part of the problem, not a contribution to the solution.
crazy and deranged people in society. The concern is when their irrational views are given credence by people in positions of power. The lunatic is most responsible. Those tapping into their craziness also contribute.
2011: Article comes out making Ramos look like a pscyho
2012: Ramos sues the paper for defamation, that the press is lying and has destroyed him.
2011-present: Presumaby, Ramos harbors deranged views about the Gazette and the hate and crazy fester within him, driving him crazier and crazier.
2016-present: People with influence and power, most notably the President, relentlessly attack the press as evil liars, and that they are the "enemy of the American people." There are calls for them to be hanged, gunned down, curb-stomped, thrown in jail.
2018: Ramos shoots up the paper that wronged him.
Again, Ramos is a lunatic; he, and he alone pulled the trigger and murdered innocent people.
But I think it's naive to ignore the current climate and attitude towards the press and think that maybe, just maybe, the non-stop attacks on the press as the lying enemy validated the seething anger of the already-crazy, and perhaps that helps flip the switch from anger to action.
Are you being obtuse intentionally? Did you hear the interview when she said that? Did you read the text of her comments?
It was clear as day he use of "curb-stomping" was referring to the public evisceration the media was going through for their tendency to run out untrue stories and narratives that fit agenda not facts and not be accountable like journalists are expected to be.
She said, and I quote:
"I'm happy to be them curb-stomped" referring to them being called out, not a literal American History X curb stomping.
But you probably believe Ben Stiller planned to blow up the plane in Meet the Parents because he said bomb.
Furthermore, she said those comments in November 2016. Almost 18 months ago.
Sure there are dead journalists because of Dana Loesch's comments. People who actually believe this are lemmings.
I'm comfortable with my views on this topic, and I sleep well at night feeling like I believe in the truth, you can cry yourself to sleep wallowing in the self-created misery like your hollywood heroes.
frankly, to see them curb-stomped … they are the rat-bastards of the earth.”
So you think she meant literal violent curb-stomping, not being called out and publicly shamed for running "fake news"?
Please tell me you're joking.
Her comments were exulatative like "finally, someone is setting the record straight" not I'm going to drag this person to the cub and kick them in the back of their skull.
The county south of me where I have friends, family, clients & colleagues has had a school shooting (and another one thwarted)
The county north of me (where I grew up and have friends, family, clients & colleagues ) had this shooting.
The county east of me (where I also grew up & have friends, family, clients & colleagues) has some fucking loons putting up signs threatening gun violence to people of certain political leanings.
WTF? Shit is getting too close. I don't even want to imagine what's going on across the river or what might happen in my county.
inflammatory language calling for violent acts, when you mean it literally or figuratively, then you should be responsible when some whacko takes your advice. And 2 years of calls for violence against the media is going to result in things like this. If you're too insulated or stupid to see that, then that's a shame...
inflammatory language calling for violent acts, when you mean it literally or figuratively, then you should be responsible when some whacko takes your advice. And 2 years of calls for violence against the media is going to result in things like this. If you're too insulated or stupid to see that, then that's a shame...
So you blame democratic leaders for Steve Scalise?
Do you blame democratic leaders for Rand Paul being attacked at his home?
Do you blame democratic leaders for antifa?
If the calls actually were for violence I'd agree, but imploring the media to do their job and report facts isn't a call for violence in most of the examples provided.
Yes, Milo texted a reporter and that text suggested violence. I don't think it impacted this instance. I won't speak for everyone since I don't follow Milo on any social media or other outlets, but almost no one heard about that until after the fact then blamed him.
and think about it, who shared that text with the public? Milo didn't. if it was so dangerous and potentially toxic, maybe they shouldn't have shared a private text.
inflammatory language calling for violent acts, when you mean it literally or figuratively, then you should be responsible when some whacko takes your advice.
Except for the fact that there isn't the slightest scrap of evidence that his acts had anything at all to do with Donald Trump or Dana Loesch or Milo Yiannopolis or whichever boogeyman you choose to duct-tape to this.
Quote:
Marquardt said he called the Anne Arundel County police about Ramos in 2013, but nothing came of it. He consulted the paper's lawyers about filing a restraining order, but decided against it.
“I remember telling our attorneys, 'This is a guy who is going to come in and shoot us,’ ” he said.
inflammatory language calling for violent acts, when you mean it literally or figuratively, then you should be responsible when some whacko takes your advice. And 2 years of calls for violence against the media is going to result in things like this. If you're too insulated or stupid to see that, then that's a shame...
So you blame democratic leaders for Steve Scalise?
Do you blame democratic leaders for Rand Paul being attacked at his home?
Do you blame democratic leaders for antifa?
If the calls actually were for violence I'd agree, but imploring the media to do their job and report facts isn't a call for violence in most of the examples provided.
Yes, Milo texted a reporter and that text suggested violence. I don't think it impacted this instance. I won't speak for everyone since I don't follow Milo on any social media or other outlets, but almost no one heard about that until after the fact then blamed him.
and think about it, who shared that text with the public? Milo didn't. if it was so dangerous and potentially toxic, maybe they shouldn't have shared a private text.
No, I don't blame dem leaders for Steve Scalise or Rand Paul because they are not the ones using literal or figurative calls for violence. This is not that hard.
Milo sent something to a REPORTER and didn't think it would be reported? Milo doesn't take a shit if he doesn't think he can get publicity for it.
isn't about sane people hearing the overtly violent rhetoric and suddenly calling to arms.
My concern is about those who are already unhinged that take the calls at face value. The crazies who shoot up a pizza place because they were told there was pedophilia ring run out of there, the people who harass grieving parents because they were told Sandy Hook was a hoax by the government to take away their guns, the people running militia operations in response to "Jade Helm" being an operation for Obama to set up martial law in the country.
isn't about sane people hearing the overtly violent rhetoric and suddenly calling to arms.
My concern is about those who are already unhinged that take the calls at face value. The crazies who shoot up a pizza place because they were told there was pedophilia ring run out of there, the people who harass grieving parents because they were told Sandy Hook was a hoax by the government to take away their guns, the people running militia operations in response to "Jade Helm" being an operation for Obama to set up martial law in the country.
Exactly. You got a lot of people who have a few screws loose to begin with & they start hearing this inflammatory rhetoric & stories & decide to do something about it. It's dangerous.
isn't about sane people hearing the overtly violent rhetoric and suddenly calling to arms.
My concern is about those who are already unhinged that take the calls at face value. The crazies who shoot up a pizza place because they were told there was pedophilia ring run out of there, the people who harass grieving parents because they were told Sandy Hook was a hoax by the government to take away their guns, the people running militia operations in response to "Jade Helm" being an operation for Obama to set up martial law in the country.
Exactly. You got a lot of people who have a few screws loose to begin with & they start hearing this inflammatory rhetoric & stories & decide to do something about it. It's dangerous.
And to act like the climate of attacking journalists and calling for violence against them - regardless of whether people are cowardly enough to hide behind just "joking" or being "figurative" - doesn't at the very least normalize the concept of violence against the press is crazy.
And no, pjacs, anyone who understands english can see the difference between Maxine Waters telling people to "push back" and milo saying he can't wait till reporters are gunned down, Dana Loesch talking about curbstomping, or the fucking President saying the press are the "enemy of the people".
Curbstomping = okay, but push back = call to violence equivalent to calling for people to be gunned down.
isn't about sane people hearing the overtly violent rhetoric and suddenly calling to arms.
My concern is about those who are already unhinged that take the calls at face value. The crazies who shoot up a pizza place because they were told there was pedophilia ring run out of there, the people who harass grieving parents because they were told Sandy Hook was a hoax by the government to take away their guns, the people running militia operations in response to "Jade Helm" being an operation for Obama to set up martial law in the country.
I agree that in terms of physical security I would be most concerned both about the unhinged. I would also add that there are lemmings who take the "fake news" childish insults at face value and contribute to a normalization of hate for the press both on social media and in rallies (and yet take what is said on gossip and offshore opinion sites as the gospel). They act as fuel for the unhinged.
Milo Yiannopoulos, the most useless fucking Greek on the planet Â
isn't about sane people hearing the overtly violent rhetoric and suddenly calling to arms.
My concern is about those who are already unhinged that take the calls at face value. The crazies who shoot up a pizza place because they were told there was pedophilia ring run out of there, the people who harass grieving parents because they were told Sandy Hook was a hoax by the government to take away their guns, the people running militia operations in response to "Jade Helm" being an operation for Obama to set up martial law in the country.
Exactly. You got a lot of people who have a few screws loose to begin with & they start hearing this inflammatory rhetoric & stories & decide to do something about it. It's dangerous.
end of this type of behavior as "stochastic terrorism."
The person who coined the terms defined it as "use of mass communications to incite random actors to carry out violent or terrorist acts that are statistically predictable but individually unpredictable. In short, remote-control murder by lone wolf."
and very sad to hear it. I hope the families of your colleagues can find comfort somehow. So much wanton hatred and anger stirred up in our country. It's sad.
isn't about sane people hearing the overtly violent rhetoric and suddenly calling to arms.
My concern is about those who are already unhinged that take the calls at face value. The crazies who shoot up a pizza place because they were told there was pedophilia ring run out of there, the people who harass grieving parents because they were told Sandy Hook was a hoax by the government to take away their guns, the people running militia operations in response to "Jade Helm" being an operation for Obama to set up martial law in the country.
Yep, and that moron Maxim Waters too.
I am pretty late to the story, so correct me if I am misinformed. Â
no clue who Milo is, let alone that he's heard from him recently
An interesting theory that you are pulling completely out of your ass...
Actually, the theory that's being pulled out of someone's ass is that Milo was somehow involved in the shooter's thinking. Have you got some evidence of that?
Well the background pon this asshole is out there now Â
One of my closest friends was in Vegas the night of the shooting and was offered an opportunity to go to the concert. He uncharacteristically declined. Makes you wonder. Sometimes these things hit way too close to home. Not to say that they're not awful in it of themselves.
Twitter account message reads:
“Dear reader: I created this page to defend myself. Now I'm suing the shit out of half of AA County and making corpses of corrupt careers and corporate entities.”
And posted this just this morning:
a violent nutjob
Surreal day here. Sad for family and friends of the victims. Sad for our great city, And sad we are seeing this on a regular basis.
Best to you.
Surreal day here. Sad for family and friends of the victims. Sad for our great city, And sad we are seeing this on a regular basis.
Condolences Rick.
For this quote: “I can’t wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight.”
Have to blame someone. Of course you can't blame the wacko nutjob shooter.
“I can’t wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight,” Mr. Yiannopoulosreportedly told the Observer over text message, in response to a question about a story on a New York City restaurant he is said to frequent.
When asked by Observer reporter Davis Richardson to elaborate on the statement, Mr. Yiannopoulos said it was his “standard response to a request for comment.” He also reportedly sent the same message to The Daily Beast’s Will Sommer.
Social media users immediately blamed Mr. Yiannopoulos for inciting violence against journalists after a gunman shot and killed five people and wounded several others Thursday afternoon at the Capital Gazette newspaper in Annapolis, Maryland.
Quote:
Were for Bob in Annapolis. I never met him except from his posts. Just that he had Annapolis in his handle. It’s a tragedy in today’s world what our first thoughts are
I think Bob passed away a few years ago.
Quite a few. Enjoyed meeting him in Albany.
Violent nut jobs are just that-- violent and crazy. Crazy people don't do rational things. So when people in positions of power and influence validate or appear to validate, or suggest horrible things, it will resonate with certain people. It won't resonate with people with common sense, but those people weren't committing atrocities anyway. But it resonates with the crazies and there are a lot of crazies in this country. For certain people in power to throw their hands up and act as if they are completely unaware the existence of the crazies in our society or the potential power of suggestion is outrageous.
Part and parcel of being a leader at any level is having followers.
Quote:
saying journalists were blaming Milo for the shooting. Why?
For this quote: “I can’t wait for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight.”
Clearly this is a reckless and fucked up comment. And Milo is an ass. Someday, a crazy follower may follow through on these words. But this particular crazy guy seemed to have a long standing beef with the paper.
But the rule of thumb for almost all of these breaking news scenarios is to take twitter with a grain of salt for at least 24 hrs.
Violent nut jobs are just that-- violent and crazy. Crazy people don't do rational things. So when people in positions of power and influence validate or appear to validate, or suggest horrible things, it will resonate with certain people. It won't resonate with people with common sense, but those people weren't committing atrocities anyway. But it resonates with the crazies and there are a lot of crazies in this country. For certain people in power to throw their hands up and act as if they are completely unaware the existence of the crazies in our society or the potential power of suggestion is outrageous.
Part and parcel of being a leader at any level is having followers.
This guy began levying his threats to the paper well before Milo's text was shared. Furthermore, Milo is a POS, but what Milo sent in a private text to a reporter never had to be reported by the reporter did it? Milo didn't tweet it, didn't post it on a website, didn't say it on a public forum. He sent it privately to a reporter who reached out to him asking for a comment (two separate reporters from different outlets).
Public figures on the left side of the aisle have been literally, not sarcastically, advocating for violence for weeks if not 529 days. If you want to blame someone other than the shooter, I don't, for ratcheting up violence, there's plenty of blame on both sides.
I think there are other political leaders on both sides who have done far more recently to incite violence than Milo's private sarcastic tweet (really more left-leaning), but none are to blame in this case IMO.
I blame the shooter, and only the shooter.
I do believe overall as a society we have taken on a level of vitriol and outright hatred that is unhealthy and I wish would end, but I'll never blame others for the actions of deranged individuals.
Quote:
I think you can blame the nu tjob perpetrators and the ones stoking the fires and encouraging the crazy. I'm not suggesting equal blame, but there is plenty to go around.
Violent nut jobs are just that-- violent and crazy. Crazy people don't do rational things. So when people in positions of power and influence validate or appear to validate, or suggest horrible things, it will resonate with certain people. It won't resonate with people with common sense, but those people weren't committing atrocities anyway. But it resonates with the crazies and there are a lot of crazies in this country. For certain people in power to throw their hands up and act as if they are completely unaware the existence of the crazies in our society or the potential power of suggestion is outrageous.
Part and parcel of being a leader at any level is having followers.
This guy began levying his threats to the paper well before Milo's text was shared. Furthermore, Milo is a POS, but what Milo sent in a private text to a reporter never had to be reported by the reporter did it? Milo didn't tweet it, didn't post it on a website, didn't say it on a public forum. He sent it privately to a reporter who reached out to him asking for a comment (two separate reporters from different outlets).
Public figures on the left side of the aisle have been literally, not sarcastically, advocating for violence for weeks if not 529 days. If you want to blame someone other than the shooter, I don't, for ratcheting up violence, there's plenty of blame on both sides.
I think there are other political leaders on both sides who have done far more recently to incite violence than Milo's private sarcastic tweet (really more left-leaning), but none are to blame in this case IMO.
I blame the shooter, and only the shooter.
I do believe overall as a society we have taken on a level of vitriol and outright hatred that is unhealthy and I wish would end, but I'll never blame others for the actions of deranged individuals.
"both side-ism"
If you can't see what Maxine Waters said or countless others was worse or being generous just as bad, than a private text from Milo, you are part of the problem with the division in society today.
People who can at least acknowledge faults on both sides are willing to explore ways to progress as a country together, not divided.
I left political affiliations out of this. Those with audiences who incite violence in the overt way that some of these people and political leaders have, have lasting effects on the crazy and deranged segments of their followers.
As to the killer in this incident, I don't see how his long-standing beef and anger towards the paper exculpates those who have been attacking the press in recent times as the enemy of people.
If anything, the timeline of his history suggests a connection.
The article about him in 2011. He sued for defamation in 2012. He had a Twitter account that has been dormant since 2016, until right before yesterday's attack.
Clearly, this guy was deranged and people at the paper were concerned about him for years.
But it had been 7 years since the article and 6 years since his defamation suit. I think it's reasonable to ask "so why now?" Why now did he decide to open fire on the newsroom?
Is it so unreasonable to consider that now, more than ever, Ramos felt vindicated in his blood lust towards this press for revenge? That now, more than any other time I can remember, people in power are calling the press the enemy of the American people, and other influential people calling for their deaths, and violence upon them?
I think the event is tragic, and blame lies with one person.
If you want to blame others that's your right, but I do think it's also worth some solid consideration about the state of "journalism" today. And no, I'm not victim blaming, the people killed were innocent victims of a maniac, but I am saying the media is the cause for some of the rhetoric, for as much as it is rhetoric, there is some truth to it. Hopefully I don't seem like I'm backing away after dropping a comment like that, but I don't want to change this thread any further to something it wasn't intended for out of respect to the OP.
As if at some point, being able to publicly threaten people was protected by the First Amendment.
To the OP, sorry this troll Aqua got the hornets nest out and ruined a prayer thread.
As a VT Alumni and survivor of the shooting, I know how it feels.
Any evidence whatsoever that he's anyone's follower? Anything at all?
If you can't see what Maxine Waters said or countless others was worse or being generous just as bad, than a private text from Milo, you are part of the problem with the division in society today.
People who can at least acknowledge faults on both sides are willing to explore ways to progress as a country together, not divided.
Maxine Waters absolutely did not call for violence - she called for protests against administration officials when they are seen in public. Milo said he couldn't wait for people to be gunned down in the street.
Absolutely not "just as bad", let alone "worse".
True. On the other hand, though, what the hell does he have to do with this in the first place?
Curbstomp reporters. Gun them down. Enemy of the people, disgusting people, etc.
That shit HAS to stop.
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reality, depending on your politics.
If you can't see what Maxine Waters said or countless others was worse or being generous just as bad, than a private text from Milo, you are part of the problem with the division in society today.
People who can at least acknowledge faults on both sides are willing to explore ways to progress as a country together, not divided.
????????
Maxine Waters absolutely did not call for violence - she called for protests against administration officials when they are seen in public. Milo said he couldn't wait for people to be gunned down in the street.
Absolutely not "just as bad", let alone "worse".
You are being very liberal with your words and choosing for them to mean what you want them to mean.
someone saying that the media is our enemy incites violence to you, but another person saying to push back on an admin and its' representatives is not inciting violence. Neither explicitly calls for violence, but both wind up there. People seem to forget a congressman was shot in broad daylight on a baseball field.
Like most issues today people believe exactly what they want, twist half truths and rhetoric into facts, talk past each other, and don't change their mind.
You can very easily find 10 instances the past two weeks where members of the media, "journalists" tweeted out pictures crucifying the current admin for the immigration issue, and those images and tweets were shared thousands upon thousands of times, and guess what, the pictures were from the prior administration. and guess what, almost exclusively when the media members do this, it's always wrong the same way.
Sure they issue retractions, but look at the reach of the retractions or corrections compared with the original. the damage is done.
So like I said there is blame for the current state of affairs all around. Or not. I don't care to debate this anymore.
And Dana Loesch's comments, if you're going to use those as person calling for violence, clearly 100% indicates you did not personally read or hear those comments. You are parroting what someone else said. You are 100% part of the problem, not a contribution to the solution.
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2011: Article comes out making Ramos look like a pscyho
2012: Ramos sues the paper for defamation, that the press is lying and has destroyed him.
2011-present: Presumaby, Ramos harbors deranged views about the Gazette and the hate and crazy fester within him, driving him crazier and crazier.
2016-present: People with influence and power, most notably the President, relentlessly attack the press as evil liars, and that they are the "enemy of the American people." There are calls for them to be hanged, gunned down, curb-stomped, thrown in jail.
2018: Ramos shoots up the paper that wronged him.
Again, Ramos is a lunatic; he, and he alone pulled the trigger and murdered innocent people.
But I think it's naive to ignore the current climate and attitude towards the press and think that maybe, just maybe, the non-stop attacks on the press as the lying enemy validated the seething anger of the already-crazy, and perhaps that helps flip the switch from anger to action.
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Are you being obtuse intentionally? Did you hear the interview when she said that? Did you read the text of her comments?
It was clear as day he use of "curb-stomping" was referring to the public evisceration the media was going through for their tendency to run out untrue stories and narratives that fit agenda not facts and not be accountable like journalists are expected to be.
She said, and I quote:
"I'm happy to be them curb-stomped" referring to them being called out, not a literal American History X curb stomping.
But you probably believe Ben Stiller planned to blow up the plane in Meet the Parents because he said bomb.
Furthermore, she said those comments in November 2016. Almost 18 months ago.
Sure there are dead journalists because of Dana Loesch's comments. People who actually believe this are lemmings.
I'm comfortable with my views on this topic, and I sleep well at night feeling like I believe in the truth, you can cry yourself to sleep wallowing in the self-created misery like your hollywood heroes.
"I'm happy to be them curb-stomped"
should be:
She said, and I quote:
"I'm happy to *see* them curb-stomped"
So you think she meant literal violent curb-stomping, not being called out and publicly shamed for running "fake news"?
Please tell me you're joking.
Her comments were exulatative like "finally, someone is setting the record straight" not I'm going to drag this person to the cub and kick them in the back of their skull.
I can't believe this is even a conversation.
Actually, I take that back, I do believe it.
Seems like a good person.
LOL, I said Milo is a POS the first time his name came up. But yeah, lump him in, it's his fault the journalists are dead.
it's the NRA's fault. It's the president's fault. everyone is a nazi.
The county north of me (where I grew up and have friends, family, clients & colleagues ) had this shooting.
The county east of me (where I also grew up & have friends, family, clients & colleagues) has some fucking loons putting up signs threatening gun violence to people of certain political leanings.
WTF? Shit is getting too close. I don't even want to imagine what's going on across the river or what might happen in my county.
So you blame democratic leaders for Steve Scalise?
Do you blame democratic leaders for Rand Paul being attacked at his home?
Do you blame democratic leaders for antifa?
If the calls actually were for violence I'd agree, but imploring the media to do their job and report facts isn't a call for violence in most of the examples provided.
Yes, Milo texted a reporter and that text suggested violence. I don't think it impacted this instance. I won't speak for everyone since I don't follow Milo on any social media or other outlets, but almost no one heard about that until after the fact then blamed him.
and think about it, who shared that text with the public? Milo didn't. if it was so dangerous and potentially toxic, maybe they shouldn't have shared a private text.
Except for the fact that there isn't the slightest scrap of evidence that his acts had anything at all to do with Donald Trump or Dana Loesch or Milo Yiannopolis or whichever boogeyman you choose to duct-tape to this.
“I remember telling our attorneys, 'This is a guy who is going to come in and shoot us,’ ” he said.
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inflammatory language calling for violent acts, when you mean it literally or figuratively, then you should be responsible when some whacko takes your advice. And 2 years of calls for violence against the media is going to result in things like this. If you're too insulated or stupid to see that, then that's a shame...
So you blame democratic leaders for Steve Scalise?
Do you blame democratic leaders for Rand Paul being attacked at his home?
Do you blame democratic leaders for antifa?
If the calls actually were for violence I'd agree, but imploring the media to do their job and report facts isn't a call for violence in most of the examples provided.
Yes, Milo texted a reporter and that text suggested violence. I don't think it impacted this instance. I won't speak for everyone since I don't follow Milo on any social media or other outlets, but almost no one heard about that until after the fact then blamed him.
and think about it, who shared that text with the public? Milo didn't. if it was so dangerous and potentially toxic, maybe they shouldn't have shared a private text.
No, I don't blame dem leaders for Steve Scalise or Rand Paul because they are not the ones using literal or figurative calls for violence. This is not that hard.
Milo sent something to a REPORTER and didn't think it would be reported? Milo doesn't take a shit if he doesn't think he can get publicity for it.
I blame the crazy gunman and only the crazy gunman.
I think we can leave it there, unless you have any other insults you want to throw my way, then we can leave it there after the insults.
I blame the crazy gunman and only the crazy gunman.
I think we can leave it there, unless you have any other insults you want to throw my way, then we can leave it there after the insults.
Adorable...
My concern is about those who are already unhinged that take the calls at face value. The crazies who shoot up a pizza place because they were told there was pedophilia ring run out of there, the people who harass grieving parents because they were told Sandy Hook was a hoax by the government to take away their guns, the people running militia operations in response to "Jade Helm" being an operation for Obama to set up martial law in the country.
My concern is about those who are already unhinged that take the calls at face value. The crazies who shoot up a pizza place because they were told there was pedophilia ring run out of there, the people who harass grieving parents because they were told Sandy Hook was a hoax by the government to take away their guns, the people running militia operations in response to "Jade Helm" being an operation for Obama to set up martial law in the country.
Exactly. You got a lot of people who have a few screws loose to begin with & they start hearing this inflammatory rhetoric & stories & decide to do something about it. It's dangerous.
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isn't about sane people hearing the overtly violent rhetoric and suddenly calling to arms.
My concern is about those who are already unhinged that take the calls at face value. The crazies who shoot up a pizza place because they were told there was pedophilia ring run out of there, the people who harass grieving parents because they were told Sandy Hook was a hoax by the government to take away their guns, the people running militia operations in response to "Jade Helm" being an operation for Obama to set up martial law in the country.
Exactly. You got a lot of people who have a few screws loose to begin with & they start hearing this inflammatory rhetoric & stories & decide to do something about it. It's dangerous.
And no, pjacs, anyone who understands english can see the difference between Maxine Waters telling people to "push back" and milo saying he can't wait till reporters are gunned down, Dana Loesch talking about curbstomping, or the fucking President saying the press are the "enemy of the people".
Curbstomping = okay, but push back = call to violence equivalent to calling for people to be gunned down.
Come. On.
My concern is about those who are already unhinged that take the calls at face value. The crazies who shoot up a pizza place because they were told there was pedophilia ring run out of there, the people who harass grieving parents because they were told Sandy Hook was a hoax by the government to take away their guns, the people running militia operations in response to "Jade Helm" being an operation for Obama to set up martial law in the country.
An interesting theory that you are pulling completely out of your ass...
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isn't about sane people hearing the overtly violent rhetoric and suddenly calling to arms.
My concern is about those who are already unhinged that take the calls at face value. The crazies who shoot up a pizza place because they were told there was pedophilia ring run out of there, the people who harass grieving parents because they were told Sandy Hook was a hoax by the government to take away their guns, the people running militia operations in response to "Jade Helm" being an operation for Obama to set up martial law in the country.
Exactly. You got a lot of people who have a few screws loose to begin with & they start hearing this inflammatory rhetoric & stories & decide to do something about it. It's dangerous.
This.
The person who coined the terms defined it as "use of mass communications to incite random actors to carry out violent or terrorist acts that are statistically predictable but individually unpredictable. In short, remote-control murder by lone wolf."
My concern is about those who are already unhinged that take the calls at face value. The crazies who shoot up a pizza place because they were told there was pedophilia ring run out of there, the people who harass grieving parents because they were told Sandy Hook was a hoax by the government to take away their guns, the people running militia operations in response to "Jade Helm" being an operation for Obama to set up martial law in the country.
Yep, and that moron Maxim Waters too.
That said, politically motivated violence or harassment should not be tolerated by anyone for any side.
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no clue who Milo is, let alone that he's heard from him recently
An interesting theory that you are pulling completely out of your ass...
Actually, the theory that's being pulled out of someone's ass is that Milo was somehow involved in the shooter's thinking. Have you got some evidence of that?