Just another example of a guy who can’t cut it in the spotlight of NYC??? Insert any of the 80’s guys George traded away excellent young talent for in the lost 80’s!!!
I was on board with bringing him in. I was okay with him not being as good as he was in Oakland because I still felt he'd give us a great chance to win when he was on the mound.
I actually just texted a bunch of friends and said, "What would the Yankees' record be if (insert some pitcher we were teammates with in high school) was a starter instead of Sonny Gray?" It was said as a joke but it seriously makes you think because ot almost feels like he is pitching for the opposing team when he is on the mound.
curve last night . Is that about choking at home ? Don’t know the answer to that one , but what I do know is they should stretch out Warren . He should be the starter.
The guy is a bulldog competitor . He straightened up Martinez twice to keep from looking for fastballs away . The fact that his fastballs were 91-92 doesn’t mean anything . He worked inside . He had an excellent 2nd and 3rd pitch .
I think Cashman will probably package for a top-shelf starter. I can see it. Maybe deGrom, who is a waste to the Mets other than trade value right now. But I wouldn’t add the “work horse” 4-5 type . That solution is already on the team . Adam Warren .
Worried about this last year. When you lack top-end fastball you cannot miss with your off-speed and other pitches as often as Gray does and succeed. Another example of why I am hoping Cashman does not unload more of the youngsters with long term potential for a marginal short-term upgrade.
curve last night . Is that about choking at home ? Don’t know the answer to that one , but what I do know is they should stretch out Warren . He should be the starter.
The guy is a bulldog competitor . He straightened up Martinez twice to keep from looking for fastballs away . The fact that his fastballs were 91-92 doesn’t mean anything . He worked inside . He had an excellent 2nd and 3rd pitch .
I think Cashman will probably package for a top-shelf starter. I can see it. Maybe deGrom, who is a waste to the Mets other than trade value right now. But I wouldn’t add the “work horse” 4-5 type . That solution is already on the team . Adam Warren .
His curve to the 1st two batters last night certainly wasn't high school. It was nasty but somewhere in the Martinez at bat he lost it or the confidence in it. By the time he got to Devers it was nowhere near what it was 10 minutes prior.
I have no idea what caused that or how he could fix it but my guess is it's more between the ears than in his arm. He seems to get ahead and can't put guys away. Wastes too many pitches nibbling when well ahead in counts instead of just attacking with his stuff. If he made a pitch look like a strike guys might chase but instead it's nowhere near the zone and bouncing up there he gives guys a reprieve and a look at more pitches. The more pitches he throws the more likely he is to make a mistake.
I'm sorry but from game to game you don't know what you are going to get from this guy. I'm tired of hearing he's showing signs. We need to find the thing that makes it click in. He has great stuff. All he has to do is throw it over the plate because it has so much movement.
The guy is a head case. He is not built for New York. Watching him pitch is infuriating. When he gets ahead of a hitter he throws it in the dirt or so far off the plate the hitter would have to be blind to swing at it. Or he gets ahead then instead of throwing a pitch the hitter is having trouble with he hangs a curve ball and gives up a grand slam homerun.
It's pretty telling when the broadcasters are saying the Yankee bullpen is well rested so if Boone can get a good five innings out of Gray they are good to go. Really? when you hear shit like that you just have to shake your head. Cashman has made a lot of great moves rebuilding the system but this is one move I'm sure he regrets making but I can understand why he wouldn't admit to.
Yankee fans only care about winning. Expectations are always high. Some players are not comfortable with that. They are much better players with losing teams and nobody watching. Sonny Gray, Whitson, Vasquez could not hack it on the big stage. Cashman needs to dump him ASAP for mid level prospects and move on. Can't win them all.
I think he is so far gone at this point I believe he expects things to go wrong or he will pitch like garbage. I think he's at the point of no return. To be honest he wasn't setting the world on fire to begin with when the Yankees acquired him. I really never understood why everyone was so high on him in the first place. he had a couple of good years but he also had some injury time and was not pitching that well like I said when they picked him up.
His best years were '14 and '15. The season and a half before acquired he was at best moderately good but not like his 14+15 would make indicate.
Since acquired, he's been win 1, lose 1, or , lose 1 win 1.
He seems to be the kind of pitcher the Braves, but especially the Cardinals , would have:
The hot rookie pitcher joins the rotation, gives 1-3 years of good performance, but at the early indications of decline(,whatever metrics they use), is considered used up and either moved to the BP if possible, traded for whatever, or simply cut.
Use'em up; move'em down or out;bring on the next bright star...rinse and repeat.
It's like a pitcher's equivalent of the yips.
manh george : 2:15 pm : link : reply
There are professional athletes who simply cannot handle the pressures of their game, and that especially includes sports that require precise mechanics like pitching or quarterbacking, or tennis or golf. And in a few sports like baseball, there is a bigger group that cannot handle the pressures of their game in NYC specifically.
Indeed, kudos to Cashman in largely being able to avoid this pattern. A headcase like Gray was going to come along at some point, as they have in the past, but Cashman has done a damned good job of limiting the headcase headcount.
that is what he brings. Kind of like Phil Hughes who would get those first two strikes but then couldn't finish the job. But Sonny takes it to another level
I actually just texted a bunch of friends and said, "What would the Yankees' record be if (insert some pitcher we were teammates with in high school) was a starter instead of Sonny Gray?" It was said as a joke but it seriously makes you think because ot almost feels like he is pitching for the opposing team when he is on the mound.
I was trying to remember the pitcher who couldn’t do well in NY. Thanks for reminding me. He was great on bad teams.
Opponents avg 133/347
Quote:
At this point
I was trying to remember the pitcher who couldn’t do well in NY. Thanks for reminding me. He was great on bad teams.
It was Ed Whitson who couldn't pitch in NY, but was better on the road. Kenny Rogers was not good with the Yanks no matter where he pitched.
The guy is a bulldog competitor . He straightened up Martinez twice to keep from looking for fastballs away . The fact that his fastballs were 91-92 doesn’t mean anything . He worked inside . He had an excellent 2nd and 3rd pitch .
I think Cashman will probably package for a top-shelf starter. I can see it. Maybe deGrom, who is a waste to the Mets other than trade value right now. But I wouldn’t add the “work horse” 4-5 type . That solution is already on the team . Adam Warren .
The guy is a bulldog competitor . He straightened up Martinez twice to keep from looking for fastballs away . The fact that his fastballs were 91-92 doesn’t mean anything . He worked inside . He had an excellent 2nd and 3rd pitch .
I think Cashman will probably package for a top-shelf starter. I can see it. Maybe deGrom, who is a waste to the Mets other than trade value right now. But I wouldn’t add the “work horse” 4-5 type . That solution is already on the team . Adam Warren .
His curve to the 1st two batters last night certainly wasn't high school. It was nasty but somewhere in the Martinez at bat he lost it or the confidence in it. By the time he got to Devers it was nowhere near what it was 10 minutes prior.
I have no idea what caused that or how he could fix it but my guess is it's more between the ears than in his arm. He seems to get ahead and can't put guys away. Wastes too many pitches nibbling when well ahead in counts instead of just attacking with his stuff. If he made a pitch look like a strike guys might chase but instead it's nowhere near the zone and bouncing up there he gives guys a reprieve and a look at more pitches. The more pitches he throws the more likely he is to make a mistake.
The guy is a head case. He is not built for New York. Watching him pitch is infuriating. When he gets ahead of a hitter he throws it in the dirt or so far off the plate the hitter would have to be blind to swing at it. Or he gets ahead then instead of throwing a pitch the hitter is having trouble with he hangs a curve ball and gives up a grand slam homerun.
It's pretty telling when the broadcasters are saying the Yankee bullpen is well rested so if Boone can get a good five innings out of Gray they are good to go. Really? when you hear shit like that you just have to shake your head. Cashman has made a lot of great moves rebuilding the system but this is one move I'm sure he regrets making but I can understand why he wouldn't admit to.
Make the call Brian !!!
Make the call Brian !!!
Bingo!
Since acquired, he's been win 1, lose 1, or , lose 1 win 1.
He seems to be the kind of pitcher the Braves, but especially the Cardinals , would have:
The hot rookie pitcher joins the rotation, gives 1-3 years of good performance, but at the early indications of decline(,whatever metrics they use), is considered used up and either moved to the BP if possible, traded for whatever, or simply cut.
Use'em up; move'em down or out;bring on the next bright star...rinse and repeat.
manh george : 2:15 pm : link : reply
There are professional athletes who simply cannot handle the pressures of their game, and that especially includes sports that require precise mechanics like pitching or quarterbacking, or tennis or golf. And in a few sports like baseball, there is a bigger group that cannot handle the pressures of their game in NYC specifically.
Indeed, kudos to Cashman in largely being able to avoid this pattern. A headcase like Gray was going to come along at some point, as they have in the past, but Cashman has done a damned good job of limiting the headcase headcount.
Good call. Maybea hat tip to AJ Burnett? Javy Vasqiez? Jack McDowell?