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NFT: What to do with DeGrom/Syndergaard

CMicks3110 : 7/1/2018 11:16 am
The Mets are an absolute mess. But as everyone knows in life, it's best not to react emotionally during times of stress and duress.

What is the most logical direction for this franchise to go in.

1. Keep Both: each are clearly #1/#2 quality pitchers that are built to thrive in the post-season and should anchor a good team through the regular season. 26 and 30 is hardly old in baseball terms and if we can rebuild the bullpen and the infield maybe we can have a short rebuild. Also, can we really count on getting equal value back?

2. Trade One: We clearly have gaping holes at several positions. If we trade 1, we can probably expect 1-2 high level prospects near major league ready, 1-2 mid-level prospects 2-3 years away, and a low-level/high ceiling prospect (flyer). But what position are we looking to fill? 1st base we have Alonso coming and some say there is no better first base prospect, 2nd base -& gt; do we believe in McNeil vs. say someone like Milwaukee's Hiura? Shortstop: are we committed to Rosario? Outfield: We have Nimmo and Conforto as long-term starters and Cespedes/Bruce signed for 2 more years each; Catcher --& gt; Are there any catching prospects in baseball on contenders that we can snatch? (Francisco Mejia?) Starting Pitching --& gt; Are we exchanging quality for years? pitchers like deGrom and Syndergaard don't come along too often. Is it worth maybe pairing one of these aces off with a bad contract (i.e. cespedes) for a lesser prospect for cash relief to pursue one of the upcoming free agents (machado maybe?)

3. Keep Both: It is extremely rare to have a combination like this in the organization on the cheap. If we keep both, I think we have to commit to signing deGrom. He has proven to be a pitcher as much as he is a thrower and if his velocity declines some, he has the control and makeup to remain a high quality starter. Syndergaard still has 3 more years, and if we can surround them with a maturing buillpen and a more competent offense, maybe we can get a quick turnaround.

4. Wheeler - I'd be tempted to get him to sign a 4 year 25-30 million contract right now. I think he's about to explode into a top pitcher and we might be able to get him on the cheap while he's still fearful about his arm.

My opinion: Don't act hastily. Keep both. Trade Familia, Cabrera, and if you can Frazier/Blevins. Our team is playing so below the sum of it's parts it's hard to make such a big decision mid-season without complete information about possible young replacements. A team with deGrom, Syndergaard, Wheeler, Matz all pitching well as starters, and arms like Gsellman, Lugo, Bashlor, Smith showing promise in the bullpen, along with young players like Nimmo, Conforto, Rosario and soon to be Alonso, McNeil should be very careful about throwing away a potentially good core.

We really need to see players like Alonso and McNeil ASAP to see whether they are part of our future. If those two come up and perform then I would have serious trepidation about trading away the aces. If they look overmatched, then we can re-evaluate.





Not a Mets fan, but I would either trade 1 or none  
DennyInDenville : 7/1/2018 11:22 am : link
Team isn't THAT far away. Noah is young tho, but Jake doesn't have much mileage for a 30 year old and has that IT factor.

Both can be used in a deadly combo if the Mets bounce back in 19 sign a MAchado or 2020 when they get better they can still have 2 aces

Also, only 1 Ace is needed really and they can bank on others to step up spots 2-5

So basically they should explore trading 1 of them for a haul of prospects and not settle for anything they don't believe to be a great deal with 2 nice position players and a pitching prospect or two plus atleast.

Just my two cents.

I highly doubt the Yankees would be able to get Jake (the one id want) because even though Frazier, Sheffield, + + + + would be fair imo, the Mets would want much much more and I understand, Jake Is a LEGIT ace and paired with Severino almost ensures a 70% chance of the Yankees Winning 2 of the next 3 World Series while the Mets rebuild.

They would want Andujar, Frazier and more.
I would trade Degrom  
Rflairr : 7/1/2018 11:36 am : link
Because they aren’t going to contend before he’s a Free Agent. And I also wouldn’t be against trading him to the Yankees. Because we need young talent. It’s scary looking at these young stars on the Nats and Braves. Mets are in big trouble
Unless they revamp the front office  
RodneyHamp : 7/1/2018 11:47 am : link
Keep them. I have no faith in the current clowns running the franchise to get anything good for them.
Keeping them both  
Sammo85 : 7/1/2018 12:11 pm : link
Only guarantees they both will bolt when they do become FA. DeGrom has already voiced displeasure of the Mets not being willing to discuss a new contract and buying out the remaining two years.

This team is a mess. The bullpen is horrendous. The bench is terrible. Rosario has not made significant strides this year with the bat and he’s shown lapses in the field. His plate discipline is improving but I’m lowering my expectations for what he will be. Dom Smith already has the hallmarks of being a bust.

Otherwise they have a bunch of declining veteran bats like Cespedes, Bruce, Frazier (almost 50m combined next year) who will most likely miss a bunch of games and defensively outside of Frazier, the other two are butchers in the field.

This team isn’t contending for anything the next two years.....at least
Keep em both.  
giantsFC : 7/1/2018 12:36 pm : link
Sign deGrom to a big extension when time comes. He is a very durable pitcher who doesn't seem to have that elbow shoulder curse.
Thor can be kept bc he is cheap but I just feel Thor is injury-prone, built to break down before his 30's. And also has a somewhat crappy team personality. He is the one to go IMO.


I can't stand this notion by media and fans that the Mets need to trade degrom bc he deserves to play for a winner.


Are you all trollbots are just completely losing your mind? On one hand you want to Mets to spend and on the other you want them to trade away their only good players.
Keep them both  
Vanzetti : 7/1/2018 12:53 pm : link
unless somebody overwhelms you with an offer for Degrom

but deadline trades just don't bring back the prospect hauls they used to because of changes in the draft compensation rules

Also, very few prospects are close to a sure thing. Remember just a year ago Rosario was rated as the best prospect or one of the best prospects in baseball? So, if the Yankees are willing to give up Gleyber Torres for Degrom, then yeah that's the basis for a trade. But I doubt that happens.
I would never trade them  
gtt350 : 7/1/2018 12:55 pm : link
you have 1 and 1A
Mets will likely have the worst record  
Section331 : 7/1/2018 12:59 pm : link
in MLB, why the fuck would Machadosign here? It’s not like he won’t get other offers. I would seriously consider trading deGrom. Obviously only for the right offer, but I don’t see this being a one year turnaround, so move Jake while he is highest in value, get some young players and picks.

I would keep Noah, Matt and Wheeler and build a staff around them. Oh, and fire the owners.
RE: I would never trade them  
Eman11 : 7/1/2018 1:04 pm : link
In comment 14003512 gtt350 said:
Quote:
you have 1 and 1A


But you're not winning with them here, and it's not like you have players in the minors coming up who can turn this around.

I don't see a turnaround unless they trade one or both and a coupe of years from now when the team is still losing and Jake walks, it'll be "we should've trade him two years ago". You'll get much more for him now than next year or before the deadline in his walk year.
Unless you’re willing to spend big  
Rflairr : 7/1/2018 1:13 pm : link
On Harper or Machado. Trade DeGrom.
I would try and trade Frazier  
Vanzetti : 7/1/2018 1:22 pm : link
Just to get rid of the contract.

Swarzak and Vargas are so awful that they are untradeable. They both need to be released.
RE: I would never trade them  
Sammo85 : 7/1/2018 1:25 pm : link
In comment 14003512 gtt350 said:
Quote:
you have 1 and 1A


And nothing to support them with. Mets need to tear it down.
RE: RE: I would never trade them  
Vanzetti : 7/1/2018 1:30 pm : link
In comment 14003554 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 14003512 gtt350 said:


Quote:


you have 1 and 1A



And nothing to support them with. Mets need to tear it down.


Depends on what they have in Nimmo, Conforto,Rosario, Flores, Alonso and McNeil. That's six young hitters. Could go either way.
Trade deGrom  
RetroJint : 7/1/2018 1:35 pm : link
Keep Thor but monitor his off-season program to make sure he doesn’t over-train his muscles . One of the guys you get for deGrom must be a high-end, starting pitching prospect . This sounds like the Yankees . Been arguing with a good friend of mine who is Mr Met. He’s fighting the concept . He must embrace the concept . Cashman will go with Fulmer if the Mets wait too long or come in too high .
Shecky's nephew  
Vanzetti : 7/1/2018 1:40 pm : link
needs to be the everyday catcher.

Mesoraco has no future with this team. Focus for the rest of the season needs to be on playing the young guys.

Matz has Brinson 0-2 and then walks him  
Vanzetti : 7/1/2018 1:44 pm : link
Gotta stop nibbling and put guys away. Big problem for the whole staff except for Degrom.
RE: RE: RE: I would never trade them  
Sammo85 : 7/1/2018 1:49 pm : link
In comment 14003559 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 14003554 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


In comment 14003512 gtt350 said:


Quote:


you have 1 and 1A



And nothing to support them with. Mets need to tear it down.



Depends on what they have in Nimmo, Conforto,Rosario, Flores, Alonso and McNeil. That's six young hitters. Could go either way.


Flores is terrible defensively and gets exposed at the plate and wears down when he becomes an everyday player. Rosario looks like an average at best SS. We don’t know what McNeil or Alonso are and we need to find out soon. Dom Smith is a bust.
Keep them both unless a team makes an offer that exceeds their value  
NyquistX3 : 7/1/2018 2:12 pm : link
.
RE: Shecky's nephew  
Shecky : 7/1/2018 2:30 pm : link
In comment 14003568 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
needs to be the everyday catcher.

Mesoraco has no future with this team. Focus for the rest of the season needs to be on playing the young guys.


One RBI double and he turns you into a believer. One down, five million more to go.
I'm a Yankees fan so take it for what it's worth...  
Milton : 7/1/2018 3:14 pm : link
But having the 1-2 punch of deGrom and Syndergaard is like having a Pro Bowl quality QB early in his prime. That's what you build around, it's not what you give up in order to rebuild. It would be one thing if deGrom were 35-years old, but he's young enough that you pay the man instead of thinking what you can get for him in trade. And as an owner and GM, that's how you let the Mets fans know you're serious.
From Buster Olney  
pjcas18 : 7/1/2018 3:24 pm : link
and this is the approach I think they should take - get overwhelemed and move either, otherwise both stay put (not a fan of the GM part, that seems like a shit show).

Quote:
The Mets will listen to offers for co-aces Jacob deGrom and Noah Syndergaard in advance of the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline, but it appears the two will stay put. The club’s seeking overwhelming returns for both right-handers and is “highly unlikely” to move either one, according to Buster Olney of ESPN. With general manager Sandy Alderson on leave as he battles cancer, assistants Omar Minaya, John Ricco and J.P. Ricciardi will help determine the futures of deGrom, Syndergaard and other Mets. However, it’s not a lock that anyone from that group will become Alderson’s full-time successor, as Mets ownership is likely to look outside the organization for the team’s next GM, Olney hears. Minaya, who preceded Alderson as New York’s GM, has the respect of Mets owner Fred Wilpon and will “have a major say” in who takes over for Alderson, per Olney.
RE: Keeping them both  
PhiPsi125 : 7/1/2018 3:28 pm : link
In comment 14003456 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
Only guarantees they both will bolt when they do become FA. DeGrom has already voiced displeasure of the Mets not being willing to discuss a new contract and buying out the remaining two years.

This team is a mess. The bullpen is horrendous. The bench is terrible. Rosario has not made significant strides this year with the bat and he’s shown lapses in the field. His plate discipline is improving but I’m lowering my expectations for what he will be. Dom Smith already has the hallmarks of being a bust.

Otherwise they have a bunch of declining veteran bats like Cespedes, Bruce, Frazier (almost 50m combined next year) who will most likely miss a bunch of games and defensively outside of Frazier, the other two are butchers in the field.

This team isn’t contending for anything the next two years.....at least


So, Rosario hasn’t made significant strides HAVE WAY THROUGH his rookie year...but his plate discipline has improved. So, he hasn’t really improved but he has improved so naturally you should lower your expectations. Because most rookies don’t struggle, right? Come on, man.
You make them both available  
arniefez : 7/1/2018 3:36 pm : link
you ask for a huge return. If someone meets the price you consider it. But the Mets are run by really really dumb and small people. So it's unlikely they'll make a good choice either way.
RE: I'm a Yankees fan so take it for what it's worth...  
Eman11 : 7/1/2018 3:39 pm : link
In comment 14003628 Milton said:
Quote:
But having the 1-2 punch of deGrom and Syndergaard is like having a Pro Bowl quality QB early in his prime. That's what you build around, it's not what you give up in order to rebuild. It would be one thing if deGrom were 35-years old, but he's young enough that you pay the man instead of thinking what you can get for him in trade. And as an owner and GM, that's how you let the Mets fans know you're serious.


I'd agree if the Mets were run well and had good owners. These guys however are clowns and should've been made to sell by Selig during the Madoff scandal.

The big time Mets fans in my circle of family and close friends all think Jeff will find a way to screw up the handling of Jake and would rather get some really good prospects than lose him for nothing. Thor they have more time and hope for.
RE: Not a Mets fan, but I would either trade 1 or none  
UConn4523 : 7/1/2018 3:54 pm : link
In comment 14003436 DennyInDenville said:
Quote:
Team isn't THAT far away. Noah is young tho, but Jake doesn't have much mileage for a 30 year old and has that IT factor.

Both can be used in a deadly combo if the Mets bounce back in 19 sign a MAchado or 2020 when they get better they can still have 2 aces

Also, only 1 Ace is needed really and they can bank on others to step up spots 2-5

So basically they should explore trading 1 of them for a haul of prospects and not settle for anything they don't believe to be a great deal with 2 nice position players and a pitching prospect or two plus atleast.

Just my two cents.

I highly doubt the Yankees would be able to get Jake (the one id want) because even though Frazier, Sheffield, + + + + would be fair imo, the Mets would want much much more and I understand, Jake Is a LEGIT ace and paired with Severino almost ensures a 70% chance of the Yankees Winning 2 of the next 3 World Series while the Mets rebuild.

They would want Andujar, Frazier and more.


They are about as far away as any big market team can possibly be. Philly and Atlanta are miles ahead of them in re-establishing youth, it’s not even close.
They can’t move Cespedes either  
UConn4523 : 7/1/2018 3:58 pm : link
and that’s probably the biggest problem going for the Mets outside of the depleted farm. Cespedes is a clown, and he will never be a dependable MVP caliber player.

Both pitchers should be available if the price is right. Stop worrying about who’s in charge - if they get a great package, take it and move the franchise forward.
RE: RE: Keeping them both  
Sammo85 : 7/1/2018 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14003636 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14003456 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


Only guarantees they both will bolt when they do become FA. DeGrom has already voiced displeasure of the Mets not being willing to discuss a new contract and buying out the remaining two years.

This team is a mess. The bullpen is horrendous. The bench is terrible. Rosario has not made significant strides this year with the bat and he’s shown lapses in the field. His plate discipline is improving but I’m lowering my expectations for what he will be. Dom Smith already has the hallmarks of being a bust.

Otherwise they have a bunch of declining veteran bats like Cespedes, Bruce, Frazier (almost 50m combined next year) who will most likely miss a bunch of games and defensively outside of Frazier, the other two are butchers in the field.

This team isn’t contending for anything the next two years.....at least



So, Rosario hasn’t made significant strides HAVE WAY THROUGH his rookie year...but his plate discipline has improved. So, he hasn’t really improved but he has improved so naturally you should lower your expectations. Because most rookies don’t struggle, right? Come on, man.


He’s not improving overall as a player. His plate discipline was an abomination last year. He’s improved that a bit. He’s taking some more pitches. His defense has been very shaky at key points in games and he’s not advancing with his use of all fields and power.

He’s been a disappointment this year just like the rest of the team.

I understand it’s hot out but I’m thinking you just turned the reading comprehension button off by accident?
I'd hold on to the starters unless some team makes a huge offer.  
Ira : 7/1/2018 4:53 pm : link
I love the way Matz is pitching and Wheeler seems to have added mileage to his fastball. It's not like we have some good starters coming up. I'd be looking to move Cabrera who's having a good year and bring up McNeil to replace him. Also, Familia should have some value. But I'd definitely keep the starting group of four pitchers together.
RE: RE: I'm a Yankees fan so take it for what it's worth...  
Dave in Buffalo : 7/1/2018 5:00 pm : link
In comment 14003644 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14003628 Milton said:


Quote:


But having the 1-2 punch of deGrom and Syndergaard is like having a Pro Bowl quality QB early in his prime. That's what you build around , it's not what you give up in order to rebuild. It would be one thing if deGrom were 35-years old, but he's young enough that you pay the man instead of thinking what you can get for him in trade. And as an owner and GM, that's how you let the Mets fans know you're serious.



I'd agree if the Mets were run well and had good owners. These guys however are clowns and should've been made to sell by Selig during the Madoff scandal.

The big time Mets fans in my circle of family and close friends all think Jeff will find a way to screw up the handling of Jake and would rather get some really good prospects than lose him for nothing. Thor they have more time and hope for.


Milton, you can't build around them when you have nothing to build with. That's their problem. They could likely get 2-3 very good to excellent prospects from the Yankees, plus a bunch of other legitimate prospects to build up their relief corps and the back end to middle of their rotation; the Yankees have a lot of pitching prospects. For DeGrom they could likely get Frazier, who may very well become an all star, in addition to Sheffield and Drury. Sheffield is a front of the rotation guy and Drury looks like he could be a very good third baseman hittin for average with good pop. And then many combinations of several more next teir prospects that they could likely get as well. Mets could go a long way toward building their future with just that one trade.
RE: RE: RE: Keeping them both  
PhiPsi125 : 7/1/2018 5:17 pm : link
In comment 14003670 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 14003636 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14003456 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


Only guarantees they both will bolt when they do become FA. DeGrom has already voiced displeasure of the Mets not being willing to discuss a new contract and buying out the remaining two years.

This team is a mess. The bullpen is horrendous. The bench is terrible. Rosario has not made significant strides this year with the bat and he’s shown lapses in the field. His plate discipline is improving but I’m lowering my expectations for what he will be. Dom Smith already has the hallmarks of being a bust.

Otherwise they have a bunch of declining veteran bats like Cespedes, Bruce, Frazier (almost 50m combined next year) who will most likely miss a bunch of games and defensively outside of Frazier, the other two are butchers in the field.

This team isn’t contending for anything the next two years.....at least



So, Rosario hasn’t made significant strides HAVE WAY THROUGH his rookie year...but his plate discipline has improved. So, he hasn’t really improved but he has improved so naturally you should lower your expectations. Because most rookies don’t struggle, right? Come on, man.



He’s not improving overall as a player. His plate discipline was an abomination last year. He’s improved that a bit. He’s taking some more pitches. His defense has been very shaky at key points in games and he’s not advancing with his use of all fields and power.

He’s been a disappointment this year just like the rest of the team.

I understand it’s hot out but I’m thinking you just turned the reading comprehension button off by accident?


Nope, I had to suffer through your mindless drivel just like everyone else. I get it...instant gratification is nice and all, but just not that common. It takes time for these young players to round into form. Rosario is a highly touted prospect with half a season under his belt. Plus, I’m sure it doesn’t help being on the biggest train-wreck team in the pros. Not great for development. And the Mets have perfected the method of ruining good players. Yeah, let’s write him off because he didn’t turn into prime Manny Machado this season.

But yeah, it’s hot out. Maybe that can be your excuse.
Dont trade Seaver and Nolan Ryan  
spike : 7/1/2018 5:39 pm : link
Deja vu all over again
they need to trade both  
Dankbeerman : 7/2/2018 11:42 am : link
and try to get the buyer/s to take away at least 1 of Bruce or Cespides. Also need to move cabrera familia frazier if at all possible. They need to restock and dont have any answers in the minors ready to help.
Catch 22  
Shecky : 7/2/2018 12:11 pm : link
Cabrera to Sox,but want Mets to eat salary
Let’s see how strong the trio can be convincing Jeffy
Fuck the Mets  
PaulN : 7/2/2018 2:20 pm : link
They were too fucking petty to trade us Jay Bruce because they were terrified that he may get a fucking hit for us. They will do everything they can to trade him to Boston, that you can bank on. They focus on the Yanks because their house is fucked up. Just move past the thought.
RE: Catch 22  
Section331 : 7/2/2018 2:21 pm : link
In comment 14004490 Shecky said:
Quote:
Cabrera to Sox,but want Mets to eat salary
Let’s see how strong the trio can be convincing Jeffy


This is the last year of his deal, so how much can they expect to get? Should give the Mets a better prospect, and open up a spot for a call-up (McNeil?). It's too good a deal to pass up, which guarantees that Jeffy fucks it up.
RE: Fuck the Mets  
Section331 : 7/2/2018 2:22 pm : link
In comment 14004659 PaulN said:
Quote:
They were too fucking petty to trade us Jay Bruce because they were terrified that he may get a fucking hit for us. They will do everything they can to trade him to Boston, that you can bank on. They focus on the Yanks because their house is fucked up. Just move past the thought.


Is there any truth to this? I would trade Bruce to the Yankees yesterday.
RE: RE: Fuck the Mets  
pjcas18 : 7/2/2018 2:42 pm : link
In comment 14004663 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 14004659 PaulN said:


Quote:


They were too fucking petty to trade us Jay Bruce because they were terrified that he may get a fucking hit for us. They will do everything they can to trade him to Boston, that you can bank on. They focus on the Yanks because their house is fucked up. Just move past the thought.



Is there any truth to this? I would trade Bruce to the Yankees yesterday.


this was reportedly true last year.

Jeffy the high school graduate  
spike : 7/2/2018 3:03 pm : link
Will fuck up everything he touches.
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