Let me get this straight, Lebron forced and made all those picks and draft day trades? He asked them to trade Tyus Jones for Cedi Osman??
Shannon Brown played his rookie year and then was traded in the Ben Wallace deal. It’s lebrons fault the Cavs traded for Ben Wallace, Wally Sczerbiak and Joe Smith? And I’m sure Lebron demanded to play with Jamison...
Lebron brings pressure on your franchise to build a winner but he didn’t force them to make these bad trades and poor draft picks.
The Cavs did a bad job surrounding him talent- especially his first tenure. And this past year was disastrous in terms of personnel moves for Cleveland.
the result was a team with no leverage despite having a big asset.
mid season, as per usual lebron doesnt try as hard for a 2 week window, the team does poorly... lebron sulks... complains (did the same the prior year to get them to trade for korver)... and the team then makes a trade.
upon finding out that IT was traded... he tries again... scores 50 and the game winner in minny....
what a great guy concerned about the franchise...
and he ATE UP the narrative of him carrying the team.... to which is young teammates played like shit because of it.
this feels a bit personal as I know you are friends with, Altman. Correct?
i have a bit of an axe there... but nothing i said is about feelings, mainly facts--- so maybe a small caveat on my commentary--- but none of it is false.
LeBron has been allowed by desperate ownership and management to dictate his roster from the moment he went to Miami. LeBron realized he was bigger than the team, and acted accordingly.
He's been terrible at it. LeBron the player has bailed out LeBron the GM a few times, and credit to how otherworldly he's played.
There's no comparison to the Jordan Bulls situation. The Bulls had Jerry Krause not listening to Jackson or Jordan. Krause made a number of decisions LeBron would have gotten his GM fired over.
In the end, the Cavs pay the most. They have Kevin Love, George Hill, Tristan Thompson, and JR Smith making north of 14M a year.
And the only asset from the Irving deal is Collin Sexton, a good but not super star potential player.
the result was a team with no leverage despite having a big asset.
mid season, as per usual lebron doesnt try as hard for a 2 week window, the team does poorly... lebron sulks... complains (did the same the prior year to get them to trade for korver)... and the team then makes a trade.
upon finding out that IT was traded... he tries again... scores 50 and the game winner in minny....
what a great guy concerned about the franchise...
and he ATE UP the narrative of him carrying the team.... to which is young teammates played like shit because of it.
How is it lebrons fault they had “no leverage”? Which isn’t even true. Kyrie has 2 years left on his deal. Lebrons the one said to bring him to training camp. The Cavs had plenty of leverage, they just made a bad trade. And then followed that up with more mad trades at the deadline.
But at least they have Colin Sexton now...
And now it’s his fault his teammates played like shit? Are you serious? What more could he have done during that playoff run.
Let me get this straight, Lebron forced and made all those picks and draft day trades? He asked them to trade Tyus Jones for Cedi Osman??
Shannon Brown played his rookie year and then was traded in the Ben Wallace deal. It’s lebrons fault the Cavs traded for Ben Wallace, Wally Sczerbiak and Joe Smith? And I’m sure Lebron demanded to play with Jamison...
Lebron brings pressure on your franchise to build a winner but he didn’t force them to make these bad trades and poor draft picks.
The Cavs did a bad job surrounding him talent- especially his first tenure. And this past year was disastrous in terms of personnel moves for Cleveland.
The moves you are bringing up is public knowledge that lebron wanted. So yes lebron played a HUGE role in these trades and FA signings. Your inability to understand this is not my problem anymore.
LeBron has been allowed by desperate ownership and management to dictate his roster from the moment he went to Miami. LeBron realized he was bigger than the team, and acted accordingly.
He's been terrible at it. LeBron the player has bailed out LeBron the GM a few times, and credit to how otherworldly he's played.
There's no comparison to the Jordan Bulls situation. The Bulls had Jerry Krause not listening to Jackson or Jordan. Krause made a number of decisions LeBron would have gotten his GM fired over.
In the end, the Cavs pay the most. They have Kevin Love, George Hill, Tristan Thompson, and JR Smith making north of 14M a year.
And the only asset from the Irving deal is Collin Sexton, a good but not super star potential player.
This is a fantastic post. Probably said it a lot better than me.
the result was a team with no leverage despite having a big asset.
mid season, as per usual lebron doesnt try as hard for a 2 week window, the team does poorly... lebron sulks... complains (did the same the prior year to get them to trade for korver)... and the team then makes a trade.
upon finding out that IT was traded... he tries again... scores 50 and the game winner in minny....
what a great guy concerned about the franchise...
and he ATE UP the narrative of him carrying the team.... to which is young teammates played like shit because of it.
Thanks hit. I believe this isn’t the first time this happened either.
And all that said, I don't blame James I blame Dan Gilbert. He gave control of his franchise to James, foot the bill, and comes out the other side with a broken team.
Winning that ring was probably worth it, and there's nothing shameful about a string of four finals appearances. He made a lot of money in the process. He's also on the hook for a lot. And he forfeited a half-decade of young talent.
With a top 10 protected pick next year, the Cavs should really move Love. The irony is the team with best assets to deal with might be the Celtics again.
Cause they were allowed to play defense when he played. James attacks the rim (yes he is great) but he can’t be touched or hacked the way Jordan did and he still was unstoppable.
LeBron voicing particular ideas about getting particular players. I can even imagine him voicing them really really loudly. And I can imagine the amount of pressure that puts on a team that is upper-tier and championship-caliber simply because LeBron is on it.
But if you can't argue an alternative to your star player, you are probably not suited to assemble the rest of your team.
Shit, nearly every Warrior wanted Mark Jackson to stay coach and many were mad he was fired. Good thing they weren't catered to.
LeBron voicing particular ideas about getting particular players. I can even imagine him voicing them really really loudly. And I can imagine the amount of pressure that puts on a team that is upper-tier and championship-caliber simply because LeBron is on it.
But if you can't argue an alternative to your star player, you are probably not suited to assemble the rest of your team.
Shit, nearly every Warrior wanted Mark Jackson to stay coach and many were mad he was fired. Good thing they weren't catered to.
The Cavs have a 35-year-old GM who's only real experience is within the org. They have an owner who virtually shit his pants in the media the last time James walked away. And they had James who literally walked away once.
No one in that organization was really in a position to run an organization. Team James took major advantage of that power vacuum.
But James's position as a player isn't unique (even if not equalled).
Kevin Durant isn't being super shy on holding pretty big cards on how the Warriors operate while he's there. There's a reason he won't sign long term and there's a reason Myers has to be OK with it.
LeBron voicing particular ideas about getting particular players. I can even imagine him voicing them really really loudly. And I can imagine the amount of pressure that puts on a team that is upper-tier and championship-caliber simply because LeBron is on it.
But if you can't argue an alternative to your star player, you are probably not suited to assemble the rest of your team.
Shit, nearly every Warrior wanted Mark Jackson to stay coach and many were mad he was fired. Good thing they weren't catered to.
And if management did take control and they didn’t win, goodbye Lebron maybe even sooner.
And if management did take control and they didn’t win, goodbye Lebron maybe even sooner.
Lebron had Cleveland by the balls and he knew t.
You keep pitching this like it's some Machiavellian effort on his part. I see it as more likely being the results of the intrinsic pressures that come when your team has one of the top 3 (arguably, best 2) players in history (perhaps coupled with possibly one of the bottom 200 management/ownership teams in history?).
Is there any evidence that LeBron ever offered ultimatums like "I have no idea what your existing free agent plans are and I don't care -- you sign Antawn Jamison NOW or I'm out!" Or is it possible that, as particular free agents became available, he had opinions (incorrect as they may be) about which would be good signings and then made these opinions known, like other players sometimes do?
LeBron voicing particular ideas about getting particular players. I can even imagine him voicing them really really loudly. And I can imagine the amount of pressure that puts on a team that is upper-tier and championship-caliber simply because LeBron is on it.
But if you can't argue an alternative to your star player, you are probably not suited to assemble the rest of your team.
Shit, nearly every Warrior wanted Mark Jackson to stay coach and many were mad he was fired. Good thing they weren't catered to.
And if management did take control and they didn’t win, goodbye Lebron maybe even sooner.
Lebron had Cleveland by the balls and he knew t.
Or make better moves while allowing some input from Lebron. They made this decision easy for him with the current roster.
That he wants a player signed, he is basically holding his team hostage. You may not agree with my opinion, but Cleveland was forced to do what Lebron wanted.
That he wants a player signed, he is basically holding his team hostage. You may not agree with my opinion, but Cleveland was forced to do what Lebron wanted.
It’s very, very shitty.
I understand your point but they still could have done a better job of team building around him.
From everything that I read, Lebron demanded the Kevin Love trade, Mike Miller signing, including JR in the Shumpert trade and the minor signings like James Jones and Perkins.
He didn't force them to miss on every draft from 2004-2009, or trade Kyrie Irving for a bag of balls. They also had a trade done with the Pacers for Paul George but refused to include a future unprotected pick.
That he wants a player signed, he is basically holding his team hostage. You may not agree with my opinion, but Cleveland was forced to do what Lebron wanted.
It’s very, very shitty.
I understand your point but they still could have done a better job of team building around him.
From everything that I read, Lebron demanded the Kevin Love trade, Mike Miller signing, including JR in the Shumpert trade and the minor signings like James Jones and Perkins.
He didn't force them to miss on every draft from 2004-2009, or trade Kyrie Irving for a bag of balls. They also had a trade done with the Pacers for Paul George but refused to include a future unprotected pick.
He also made it publicly known he wanted jr Smith and Tristan Thompson re-signed.
RE: Not sure the Irving situation is a good example Â
it’s pretty clear that his relationship with LeBron was fractured, for whatever reason. Once hat happened his trade value sunk like a rock.
This is a perfect example of something a strong GM like Krause would have put an end to immediately.
Someone in the organization needed to be strong enough to sit them both down and resolve it. Instead you lose 2 all stars in exchange for getting swept in the finals, a luxury tax roster that would be lucky to win 30 games, and an 8th overall pick.
Really try that on for size. The Cavs couldn't have cooked up a bigger disaster without a Dolan running the show.
RE: Not sure the Irving situation is a good example Â
it’s pretty clear that his relationship with LeBron was fractured, for whatever reason. Once hat happened his trade value sunk like a rock.
that's bullshit. He was still under contract for two additional years. They had all the leverage. The morons running the Cavs simply botched it. What was hysterical was how proud of themselves they were. Ooh...Crowder! Organizational malpractice to trade an all-nba caliber guard for role player, an injured player, and a pick that everyone knew was projected to be outside the top 5.
it’s pretty clear that his relationship with LeBron was fractured, for whatever reason. Once hat happened his trade value sunk like a rock.
that's bullshit. He was still under contract for two additional years. They had all the leverage. The morons running the Cavs simply botched it. What was hysterical was how proud of themselves they were. Ooh...Crowder! Organizational malpractice to trade an all-nba caliber guard for role player, an injured player, and a pick that everyone knew was projected to be outside the top 5.
It isn't bullshit at all. Open your eyes, the players run this league. Once a relationship is fractured, its over. Now I'm not claiming the Cleveland FO didn't also compound the shit scenario, but their hand was forced, I don't know how you can ever disagree with that.
And that's what ultimately makes the NBA a shitty league.
with Kawhi Leonard behind closed doors that's apparently bad enough where he didn't try and come back in 2017/18, basically making SA forfeit the season, and is still under contract for next year that he refuses to honor. That's 2 years worth of games that he can single handedly fuck up just by waking up one day and deciding he will never play for the team again.
Different situation, but the result is the same. Even worse for SA is that he won't sign an extension if traded, most likely. Great league.
Would not pick up his player option-
The pacers wanted unprotected- the Cavs asked lebron to pick it up so they weren’t left losing George and lebron and not having a pick.
But he decided not to commit to that- so instead the trade didn’t happen and now lebron is cool to sign a 3+ year deal with the lakers..... actually allowing a team to breathe and build instead of holding hostage. Essentially he was always going to la.
Interestingly Chris Sheridan called it via sources a year ago and was right.
RE: RE: RE: Not sure the Irving situation is a good example Â
it’s pretty clear that his relationship with LeBron was fractured, for whatever reason. Once hat happened his trade value sunk like a rock.
that's bullshit. He was still under contract for two additional years. They had all the leverage. The morons running the Cavs simply botched it. What was hysterical was how proud of themselves they were. Ooh...Crowder! Organizational malpractice to trade an all-nba caliber guard for role player, an injured player, and a pick that everyone knew was projected to be outside the top 5.
It isn't bullshit at all. Open your eyes, the players run this league. Once a relationship is fractured, its over. Now I'm not claiming the Cleveland FO didn't also compound the shit scenario, but their hand was forced, I don't know how you can ever disagree with that.
And that's what ultimately makes the NBA a shitty league.
their hand was forced to make a lousy deal? Nonsense. And of course they didn't have to trade Irving when they did. there are always alternatives. Especially when you control the guy for two years. LMA wanted out of San Antonio and the Spurs smartly waited him out and repaired the relationship.
The situation was not good
Could it have been handled better? In a perfect world yes, in millennial social media world... not easy. They wanted a josh Jackson or Tatum type. They lost leverage and instead tried to stay competitive and plan for the future— crowder the 3 and d guy they needed who has been a good player with everyone but lebron/lue—- it was the mess of the deal- and Brooklyn was about 4 slots higher than Cleveland expected. They thought they were getting top 4 possibly.
Harry hindsight always makes the best deals though
to go from not being able to enjoy watching the Lakers Â
The players absolutely run the league, and to an extent always have. The difference is there are players willing to take less money and fewer years to exert leverage on owners.
What's happened is a phenomenon, and if you are owner who lucks out, it's not a problem for you. There's very little an owner can do to make a team desirable. What's Clay Bennet doing that's so otherworldly?
The owners have one very viable option to limit the players, and that's punishing themselves. Start with giving up picks for signing free agents like MLB.
The deal was first-guessed as a lousy trade by many...excluding of course Koby's friends in the media who were too busy high-fiving each other about all the "assets" they got in return to realize the haul was full of holes. Face it, you had a guy way in over his head influenced by an idiot owner making a trade with the master.
The deal was first-guessed as a lousy trade by many...excluding of course Koby's friends in the media who were too busy high-fiving each other about all the "assets" they got in return to realize the haul was full of holes. Face it, you had a guy way in over his head influenced by an idiot owner making a trade with the master.
Regardless of who’s right this entire debate is about how Irving forced their hand. He refused to play for them. Leonard refused to play for SA. Both teams lost leverage and immediately were in a lesser position to negotiate with another team. That’s the point.
The deal was first-guessed as a lousy trade by many...excluding of course Koby's friends in the media who were too busy high-fiving each other about all the "assets" they got in return to realize the haul was full of holes. Face it, you had a guy way in over his head influenced by an idiot owner making a trade with the master.
Regardless of who’s right this entire debate is about how Irving forced their hand. He refused to play for them. Leonard refused to play for SA. Both teams lost leverage and immediately were in a lesser position to negotiate with another team. That’s the point.
Kawhi situation is totally different and virtually unprecedented. You have no idea if Kyrie would have pulled the same stunt, and you're only grouping them to try and prove your shitty point. The Cavs had plenty of leverage. They were simply too incompetent to make use of it.
you are a weird fucking dude. Hitdog just posted about how ugly the situation was with Irving and somehow you are oblivious to reality. Why are you denying it so vehemently? I can’t repeat myself enough to you, the Cleveland FO made a bad situation worse, but they were in fact forced to trade him.
And I’m not sure if you’ve payed any attention to Irving but he’s a strange, weird, sensitive person. We are going to see more of this happen, not less. The NBAs rules and structure let it happen. I’d argue his situation opened the door for more players doing it, like we are seeing now with Leonard.
the team loses all leverage on what to do with him. IMO, Kyrie was never playing for the Cavs again.
A lot of people were all over Isiah's jock after his 2016-2017 season (not me!! handpat on my back!) Crowder was the ideal 3 and D that Lebron coveted, and they got a top 10 pick. Might not be the best package - but they werent going to get much better the longer Kyrie sat.
What made the trade even funnier was that they traded Thomas for a bag o' shitand gutted their roster for shit player because Bron Bron wanted changes midseason. Crowder and Rose played very well in the playoffs. Clarkson and Hood were DNP's. Thomas could have provided a scoring spark Cleveland desparately needed.
They werent beating the Warriors, but the players they got rid of were massive upgrades than the scrubs Lebron wanted....haha
with Kawhi Leonard behind closed doors that's apparently bad enough where he didn't try and come back in 2017/18, basically making SA forfeit the season, and is still under contract for next year that he refuses to honor. That's 2 years worth of games that he can single handedly fuck up just by waking up one day and deciding he will never play for the team again.
Different situation, but the result is the same. Even worse for SA is that he won't sign an extension if traded, most likely. Great league.
After all the Spurs did for Leonard, and they were hugely instrumental (if not entirely) in developing his game, Leonard is showing what an ungrateful, disloyal jerk off he is. The Spurs are one of the great organization in sports. One of the most player friendly organizations in sports. If you can't get along with the Spurs, it's you, not the Spurs...
though so little is known about what happened that it’s hard to see what led to this. He’s one of my favorite players but it’s going to be hard to root for him after this.
Lakers renouncing Randle was about cap space for '19 Â
With JR now off the books, they can create enough cap space to sign Leonard by simply stretching Deng (he will also finally be an expiring $18.8M contract trade chip a year from now).
I would've preferred they had a sign and trade teed up for JR, knowing for months he wanted to be gone. To simply grant his wish and cut him loose for nothing in return is irritating, that's where the inexperience of Magic/Pelinka surfaces.
Asshole in sports, he is a sensational player, one of the greatest players ever to play the game and probably even a better player the Jordan, not better then Wilt though, but this guy is a total me first and only guy, he could care less about anyone and anything, his act is so pathetic that there is no way I would ever waste my time and watch this asshole. His departure from the Cavs the first time with the who gets him night on ESPN, and it would be that asshole network to cover it, took the cake for all time. I hope he never wins another championship and I hope the guy gets hurt and is out of basketball, because he is ruining the game and the competition, he is dictating how and who wins, and the league is allowing it because they are making money hand over fist, but who gives a shit about the sport anymore, not the players, not the owners, and not the fans, so they all deserve one another. The last great TEAM was the Knicks.
Shannon Brown played his rookie year and then was traded in the Ben Wallace deal. It’s lebrons fault the Cavs traded for Ben Wallace, Wally Sczerbiak and Joe Smith? And I’m sure Lebron demanded to play with Jamison...
Lebron brings pressure on your franchise to build a winner but he didn’t force them to make these bad trades and poor draft picks.
The Cavs did a bad job surrounding him talent- especially his first tenure. And this past year was disastrous in terms of personnel moves for Cleveland.
mid season, as per usual lebron doesnt try as hard for a 2 week window, the team does poorly... lebron sulks... complains (did the same the prior year to get them to trade for korver)... and the team then makes a trade.
upon finding out that IT was traded... he tries again... scores 50 and the game winner in minny....
what a great guy concerned about the franchise...
and he ATE UP the narrative of him carrying the team.... to which is young teammates played like shit because of it.
i have a bit of an axe there... but nothing i said is about feelings, mainly facts--- so maybe a small caveat on my commentary--- but none of it is false.
He's been terrible at it. LeBron the player has bailed out LeBron the GM a few times, and credit to how otherworldly he's played.
There's no comparison to the Jordan Bulls situation. The Bulls had Jerry Krause not listening to Jackson or Jordan. Krause made a number of decisions LeBron would have gotten his GM fired over.
In the end, the Cavs pay the most. They have Kevin Love, George Hill, Tristan Thompson, and JR Smith making north of 14M a year.
And the only asset from the Irving deal is Collin Sexton, a good but not super star potential player.
mid season, as per usual lebron doesnt try as hard for a 2 week window, the team does poorly... lebron sulks... complains (did the same the prior year to get them to trade for korver)... and the team then makes a trade.
upon finding out that IT was traded... he tries again... scores 50 and the game winner in minny....
what a great guy concerned about the franchise...
and he ATE UP the narrative of him carrying the team.... to which is young teammates played like shit because of it.
How is it lebrons fault they had “no leverage”? Which isn’t even true. Kyrie has 2 years left on his deal. Lebrons the one said to bring him to training camp. The Cavs had plenty of leverage, they just made a bad trade. And then followed that up with more mad trades at the deadline.
But at least they have Colin Sexton now...
And now it’s his fault his teammates played like shit? Are you serious? What more could he have done during that playoff run.
Actor, Producer,Director, and plays bb.
Shannon Brown played his rookie year and then was traded in the Ben Wallace deal. It’s lebrons fault the Cavs traded for Ben Wallace, Wally Sczerbiak and Joe Smith? And I’m sure Lebron demanded to play with Jamison...
Lebron brings pressure on your franchise to build a winner but he didn’t force them to make these bad trades and poor draft picks.
The Cavs did a bad job surrounding him talent- especially his first tenure. And this past year was disastrous in terms of personnel moves for Cleveland.
The moves you are bringing up is public knowledge that lebron wanted. So yes lebron played a HUGE role in these trades and FA signings. Your inability to understand this is not my problem anymore.
He's been terrible at it. LeBron the player has bailed out LeBron the GM a few times, and credit to how otherworldly he's played.
There's no comparison to the Jordan Bulls situation. The Bulls had Jerry Krause not listening to Jackson or Jordan. Krause made a number of decisions LeBron would have gotten his GM fired over.
In the end, the Cavs pay the most. They have Kevin Love, George Hill, Tristan Thompson, and JR Smith making north of 14M a year.
And the only asset from the Irving deal is Collin Sexton, a good but not super star potential player.
This is a fantastic post. Probably said it a lot better than me.
mid season, as per usual lebron doesnt try as hard for a 2 week window, the team does poorly... lebron sulks... complains (did the same the prior year to get them to trade for korver)... and the team then makes a trade.
upon finding out that IT was traded... he tries again... scores 50 and the game winner in minny....
what a great guy concerned about the franchise...
and he ATE UP the narrative of him carrying the team.... to which is young teammates played like shit because of it.
Thanks hit. I believe this isn’t the first time this happened either.
Winning that ring was probably worth it, and there's nothing shameful about a string of four finals appearances. He made a lot of money in the process. He's also on the hook for a lot. And he forfeited a half-decade of young talent.
With a top 10 protected pick next year, the Cavs should really move Love. The irony is the team with best assets to deal with might be the Celtics again.
But if you can't argue an alternative to your star player, you are probably not suited to assemble the rest of your team.
Shit, nearly every Warrior wanted Mark Jackson to stay coach and many were mad he was fired. Good thing they weren't catered to.
But if you can't argue an alternative to your star player, you are probably not suited to assemble the rest of your team.
Shit, nearly every Warrior wanted Mark Jackson to stay coach and many were mad he was fired. Good thing they weren't catered to.
The Cavs have a 35-year-old GM who's only real experience is within the org. They have an owner who virtually shit his pants in the media the last time James walked away. And they had James who literally walked away once.
No one in that organization was really in a position to run an organization. Team James took major advantage of that power vacuum.
But James's position as a player isn't unique (even if not equalled).
Kevin Durant isn't being super shy on holding pretty big cards on how the Warriors operate while he's there. There's a reason he won't sign long term and there's a reason Myers has to be OK with it.
But if you can't argue an alternative to your star player, you are probably not suited to assemble the rest of your team.
Shit, nearly every Warrior wanted Mark Jackson to stay coach and many were mad he was fired. Good thing they weren't catered to.
And if management did take control and they didn’t win, goodbye Lebron maybe even sooner.
Lebron had Cleveland by the balls and he knew t.
Or signing Cousins
And if management did take control and they didn’t win, goodbye Lebron maybe even sooner.
Lebron had Cleveland by the balls and he knew t.
You keep pitching this like it's some Machiavellian effort on his part. I see it as more likely being the results of the intrinsic pressures that come when your team has one of the top 3 (arguably, best 2) players in history (perhaps coupled with possibly one of the bottom 200 management/ownership teams in history?).
Is there any evidence that LeBron ever offered ultimatums like "I have no idea what your existing free agent plans are and I don't care -- you sign Antawn Jamison NOW or I'm out!" Or is it possible that, as particular free agents became available, he had opinions (incorrect as they may be) about which would be good signings and then made these opinions known, like other players sometimes do?
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LeBron voicing particular ideas about getting particular players. I can even imagine him voicing them really really loudly. And I can imagine the amount of pressure that puts on a team that is upper-tier and championship-caliber simply because LeBron is on it.
But if you can't argue an alternative to your star player, you are probably not suited to assemble the rest of your team.
Shit, nearly every Warrior wanted Mark Jackson to stay coach and many were mad he was fired. Good thing they weren't catered to.
And if management did take control and they didn’t win, goodbye Lebron maybe even sooner.
Lebron had Cleveland by the balls and he knew t.
Or make better moves while allowing some input from Lebron. They made this decision easy for him with the current roster.
It’s very, very shitty.
It’s very, very shitty.
I understand your point but they still could have done a better job of team building around him.
From everything that I read, Lebron demanded the Kevin Love trade, Mike Miller signing, including JR in the Shumpert trade and the minor signings like James Jones and Perkins.
He didn't force them to miss on every draft from 2004-2009, or trade Kyrie Irving for a bag of balls. They also had a trade done with the Pacers for Paul George but refused to include a future unprotected pick.
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That he wants a player signed, he is basically holding his team hostage. You may not agree with my opinion, but Cleveland was forced to do what Lebron wanted.
It’s very, very shitty.
I understand your point but they still could have done a better job of team building around him.
From everything that I read, Lebron demanded the Kevin Love trade, Mike Miller signing, including JR in the Shumpert trade and the minor signings like James Jones and Perkins.
He didn't force them to miss on every draft from 2004-2009, or trade Kyrie Irving for a bag of balls. They also had a trade done with the Pacers for Paul George but refused to include a future unprotected pick.
He also made it publicly known he wanted jr Smith and Tristan Thompson re-signed.
This is a perfect example of something a strong GM like Krause would have put an end to immediately.
Someone in the organization needed to be strong enough to sit them both down and resolve it. Instead you lose 2 all stars in exchange for getting swept in the finals, a luxury tax roster that would be lucky to win 30 games, and an 8th overall pick.
Really try that on for size. The Cavs couldn't have cooked up a bigger disaster without a Dolan running the show.
that's bullshit. He was still under contract for two additional years. They had all the leverage. The morons running the Cavs simply botched it. What was hysterical was how proud of themselves they were. Ooh...Crowder! Organizational malpractice to trade an all-nba caliber guard for role player, an injured player, and a pick that everyone knew was projected to be outside the top 5.
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it’s pretty clear that his relationship with LeBron was fractured, for whatever reason. Once hat happened his trade value sunk like a rock.
that's bullshit. He was still under contract for two additional years. They had all the leverage. The morons running the Cavs simply botched it. What was hysterical was how proud of themselves they were. Ooh...Crowder! Organizational malpractice to trade an all-nba caliber guard for role player, an injured player, and a pick that everyone knew was projected to be outside the top 5.
It isn't bullshit at all. Open your eyes, the players run this league. Once a relationship is fractured, its over. Now I'm not claiming the Cleveland FO didn't also compound the shit scenario, but their hand was forced, I don't know how you can ever disagree with that.
And that's what ultimately makes the NBA a shitty league.
Maybe they confused Omri for Amare.
Different situation, but the result is the same. Even worse for SA is that he won't sign an extension if traded, most likely. Great league.
The pacers wanted unprotected- the Cavs asked lebron to pick it up so they weren’t left losing George and lebron and not having a pick.
But he decided not to commit to that- so instead the trade didn’t happen and now lebron is cool to sign a 3+ year deal with the lakers..... actually allowing a team to breathe and build instead of holding hostage. Essentially he was always going to la.
Interestingly Chris Sheridan called it via sources a year ago and was right.
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In comment 14004956 UConn4523 said:
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it’s pretty clear that his relationship with LeBron was fractured, for whatever reason. Once hat happened his trade value sunk like a rock.
that's bullshit. He was still under contract for two additional years. They had all the leverage. The morons running the Cavs simply botched it. What was hysterical was how proud of themselves they were. Ooh...Crowder! Organizational malpractice to trade an all-nba caliber guard for role player, an injured player, and a pick that everyone knew was projected to be outside the top 5.
It isn't bullshit at all. Open your eyes, the players run this league. Once a relationship is fractured, its over. Now I'm not claiming the Cleveland FO didn't also compound the shit scenario, but their hand was forced, I don't know how you can ever disagree with that.
And that's what ultimately makes the NBA a shitty league.
their hand was forced to make a lousy deal? Nonsense. And of course they didn't have to trade Irving when they did. there are always alternatives. Especially when you control the guy for two years. LMA wanted out of San Antonio and the Spurs smartly waited him out and repaired the relationship.
Could it have been handled better? In a perfect world yes, in millennial social media world... not easy. They wanted a josh Jackson or Tatum type. They lost leverage and instead tried to stay competitive and plan for the future— crowder the 3 and d guy they needed who has been a good player with everyone but lebron/lue—- it was the mess of the deal- and Brooklyn was about 4 slots higher than Cleveland expected. They thought they were getting top 4 possibly.
Harry hindsight always makes the best deals though
What's happened is a phenomenon, and if you are owner who lucks out, it's not a problem for you. There's very little an owner can do to make a team desirable. What's Clay Bennet doing that's so otherworldly?
The owners have one very viable option to limit the players, and that's punishing themselves. Start with giving up picks for signing free agents like MLB.
Regardless of who’s right this entire debate is about how Irving forced their hand. He refused to play for them. Leonard refused to play for SA. Both teams lost leverage and immediately were in a lesser position to negotiate with another team. That’s the point.
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The deal was first-guessed as a lousy trade by many...excluding of course Koby's friends in the media who were too busy high-fiving each other about all the "assets" they got in return to realize the haul was full of holes. Face it, you had a guy way in over his head influenced by an idiot owner making a trade with the master.
Regardless of who’s right this entire debate is about how Irving forced their hand. He refused to play for them. Leonard refused to play for SA. Both teams lost leverage and immediately were in a lesser position to negotiate with another team. That’s the point.
Kawhi situation is totally different and virtually unprecedented. You have no idea if Kyrie would have pulled the same stunt, and you're only grouping them to try and prove your shitty point. The Cavs had plenty of leverage. They were simply too incompetent to make use of it.
And I’m not sure if you’ve payed any attention to Irving but he’s a strange, weird, sensitive person. We are going to see more of this happen, not less. The NBAs rules and structure let it happen. I’d argue his situation opened the door for more players doing it, like we are seeing now with Leonard.
But hey, you can ignore it if you want.
A lot of people were all over Isiah's jock after his 2016-2017 season (not me!! handpat on my back!) Crowder was the ideal 3 and D that Lebron coveted, and they got a top 10 pick. Might not be the best package - but they werent going to get much better the longer Kyrie sat.
What made the trade even funnier was that they traded Thomas for a bag o' shitand gutted their roster for shit player because Bron Bron wanted changes midseason. Crowder and Rose played very well in the playoffs. Clarkson and Hood were DNP's. Thomas could have provided a scoring spark Cleveland desparately needed.
They werent beating the Warriors, but the players they got rid of were massive upgrades than the scrubs Lebron wanted....haha
Different situation, but the result is the same. Even worse for SA is that he won't sign an extension if traded, most likely. Great league.
After all the Spurs did for Leonard, and they were hugely instrumental (if not entirely) in developing his game, Leonard is showing what an ungrateful, disloyal jerk off he is. The Spurs are one of the great organization in sports. One of the most player friendly organizations in sports. If you can't get along with the Spurs, it's you, not the Spurs...
I would've preferred they had a sign and trade teed up for JR, knowing for months he wanted to be gone. To simply grant his wish and cut him loose for nothing in return is irritating, that's where the inexperience of Magic/Pelinka surfaces.