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NFT: Yanks talk 7/2 - Braves on deck, an off the wall trade idea

Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 11:28 am
The upstart Braves come to the Bronx for a three game set. While much ink has been spilled over the Braves' young talent, now that I'm looking at their stats, what jumps out at you is the out-of-nowhere numbers being posted by some guys who have been washed-up has beens for a while: Kurt Suzuki, Nick Markakis, and Anibal Sanchez, tonight's scheduled starter.

Suzuki never hit much until going to the Braves last year at the age of 33. He's hit .284/.351/.515 as a Brave - what the hell? Who knew Nick Markakis was even still in MLB?? Yet he here is posting career-best numbers at 34. Sanchez posted sterling ERAs of 4.99, 5.87, and 6.41 the past three seasons in Detroit, but somehow has a 2.68 this year. Time for some market corrections.

Regarding trades for starters.....maybe the Yankees do need to deal for a 2018 Met pitcher. Just not the ones you're thinking of. Could Matt Harvey, of all people, be a good bargain pickup? His last five starts for the Reds have been very good: 29.1 IP, 21 H, 11 R, 21K/7 BB, 3.38 ERA, .955 WHIP. Fangraphs had a little writeup about him today suggesting his rebound isn't smoke and mirrors.

What a kick in the balls to the Mets if Harvey ended up helping the Yanks to a title, huh?
Fangraphs on Harvey - ( New Window )
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arcarsenal : 7/2/2018 11:33 am : link
I saw his line yesterday (which was pretty good) - and was wondering how he'd been faring since the trade. Pretty much exactly what I expected. Better once he got away from Queens.

2.31 ERA over his last 4 outings.

Not a terrible idea. And lord knows he'd be thrilled to pitch in the Bronx.
the Braves are living off of the mediocrity of a majority of the NL  
Giantsfan79 : 7/2/2018 11:34 am : link
I think Harvey's a hard pass. He couldn't handle NY with the Mets, imagine pitching in a hitters ballpark, in a hitters league, with real expectations.
as arc says, though, he would HIGHLY motivated as a Yankee  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 11:38 am : link
Given the chance to really stick it to the Mets, I wouldn't worry about Harvey's desire. And he's pitched well in the postseason, too.
Also, odds are you aren't going to have to give up much for him  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 11:40 am : link
He's heading in FA and does still have the ugly starts with the Mets on his record. No one's breaking the bank to get Matt Harvey.
Our farm system is stacked. None of whom are critical to the big  
Dave in Buffalo : 7/2/2018 11:41 am : link
club's success. We're in an excellent position to go for a second ace. We could give the Mets both quality and quantity. We should go after one of their two aces.
The Mets treated him like shit...  
Dunedin81 : 7/2/2018 11:42 am : link
And while he deserved a good bit of the blame I don't think it was peculiarly a feature of NYC.
Except the Wilpons would rather eat broken glass  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 11:43 am : link
than help the Yankees. I mean, they wouldn't even trade freaking Lucas Duda for a fair return last year - you think they're going to suddenly become reasonable when it comes to dealing one of their two franchise pitchers?
what do you think happens to Harvey the first time  
Giantsfan79 : 7/2/2018 11:47 am : link
he pitches poorly and it's discovered he was out partying the night before? That shit won't work with the Yankees.
No way I'm in favor of emptying the farm for an "ace"  
Stu11 : 7/2/2018 11:49 am : link
pitching is so variable situation to situation, division to division and park to park.I'd rather get a competent starter and then see what we have in the system. Maybe get another really good BP arm both to beef us up even more and to keep them away from the other contenders.
Harvey is one of those guys who makes me wonder if he's  
Heisenberg : 7/2/2018 11:49 am : link
really better than German or Loaisiga. You can't say he's been reliably healthy or consistent. Is his stuff better?

I mean, I can see where Harvey is a Cashman dumpster diving reclamation project but I don't think I'd go out of my way to trade for him.
Yanks can do better than Harvey  
spike : 7/2/2018 11:57 am : link
Go for Archer or Lynn
Here's the thing with Loaisiga  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 12:00 pm : link
I'm a believer in his ability. However, coming into this season, he had thrown a grand total of 129 innings in his professional career, spread out over three seasons. He's already thrown more innings this year than he has since he was an 18 year old in rookie ball in 2013. How much do you honestly think he'll have in the tank in October? And that's assuming that he won't have hit whatever the Yankees have internally set as his innings limit for 2018. German's not quite in the same boat, but he missed all of 2015 with an injury, threw 49 innings in 2016 and 109 last year. He's at 64 this year. Additionally, his performances are all over the place. He looks like a Cy candidate one day and Sergio Mitre the next start. I don't think he's quite ready to be a reliable starter for a contender.
RE: Yanks can do better than Harvey  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14004462 spike said:
Quote:
Go for Archer or Lynn


Chris Archer hasn't had a sub-4 ERA since 2015, and Lance Lynn? Are you kidding? Have you seen what he's been doing lately? Hint: it's not good.
The best thing Harvey can do...  
Dunedin81 : 7/2/2018 12:03 pm : link
is pitch well for the Reds for the rest of the year and parlay that into a solid show-me deal - incentive-laden or a 2/$15 type - with a middling team. He would have to be a sub-3.00 guy from here on out for a team to really invest in him, and a competitive team like NYY won't endure a couple bad starts, because they can't.
Are you sure about that?  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 12:08 pm : link
We've endured more than a few horrific starts from Sonny Gray.
RE: Here's the thing with Loaisiga  
Heisenberg : 7/2/2018 12:14 pm : link
In comment 14004466 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I'm a believer in his ability. However, coming into this season, he had thrown a grand total of 129 innings in his professional career, spread out over three seasons. He's already thrown more innings this year than he has since he was an 18 year old in rookie ball in 2013. How much do you honestly think he'll have in the tank in October? And that's assuming that he won't have hit whatever the Yankees have internally set as his innings limit for 2018. German's not quite in the same boat, but he missed all of 2015 with an injury, threw 49 innings in 2016 and 109 last year. He's at 64 this year. Additionally, his performances are all over the place. He looks like a Cy candidate one day and Sergio Mitre the next start. I don't think he's quite ready to be a reliable starter for a contender.


I agree with all this but these concerns are a better argument for someone like Happ than Harvey.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/2/2018 12:16 pm : link
There's no perfect trade target. The bottom line is that you're going to be able to pull negatives out of any potential player.

If the player is a true front-line starter/Ace like deGrom or Snell, the price is going to be very, very high.

If the goal is to add a starter, but not shred the farm to do it, we're going to be looking at flawed players like Happ, Hamels (just had another crappy outing - really don't want him), etc.

Harvey is outside the box - but it's not a bad idea.

Doc and Darryl both wound up in the Bronx after all of their troubles in Queens. The weren't the same players here, but they did at least sort of get things together while they played here. I think Harvey would know he can't get away with the bullshit here.

It's probably a long shot. I'm not sure he's even on Cashman's radar at all. But I do think there will be names like that whom perhaps haven't been as widely-discussed.
RE: Here's the thing with Loaisiga  
Giantsfan79 : 7/2/2018 12:16 pm : link
In comment 14004466 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I'm a believer in his ability. However, coming into this season, he had thrown a grand total of 129 innings in his professional career, spread out over three seasons. He's already thrown more innings this year than he has since he was an 18 year old in rookie ball in 2013. How much do you honestly think he'll have in the tank in October? And that's assuming that he won't have hit whatever the Yankees have internally set as his innings limit for 2018. German's not quite in the same boat, but he missed all of 2015 with an injury, threw 49 innings in 2016 and 109 last year. He's at 64 this year. Additionally, his performances are all over the place. He looks like a Cy candidate one day and Sergio Mitre the next start. I don't think he's quite ready to be a reliable starter for a contender.


I think Loaisiga was brought up either to showcase as trade bait or he'll move to the bullpen if he makes the post season roster. Our four starters right now are Sevy, CC, Tanaka, and Gray.
I agree  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 12:16 pm : link
I'd prefer Happ to Harvey, but there's a good chance Toronto does the Yankees Tax thing and wants more than a 35 year old pure rental should be worth. I like Happ, but at what price? If you can get Harvey on the cheap, that's a risk worth taking in my book. I'm operating from the assumption that the Yankees will need TWO starters - one to take over for German/Loaisiga late in the year, and one to make Sonny Gray expendable.
RE: .  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14004498 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I think Harvey would know he can't get away with the bullshit here.


I agree. The Yankees have had a pretty good track record with problem children because they tend to have strong clubhouse leadership and management that is generally firm but fair.
I always thought Harvey just needed to get out of the NY lime light  
figgy2989 : 7/2/2018 12:20 pm : link
You would think he has been humbled by pitching in Cinci and if there was a way the Yanks could get him, I really think he would perform in the Bronx. By no means should the Yanks give up a top prospect, but that was the point of Cinci claiming him, get an asset or two at the deadline if he shows he can be a competent pitcher again.

RE: Except the Wilpons would rather eat broken glass  
figgy2989 : 7/2/2018 12:23 pm : link
In comment 14004434 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
than help the Yankees. I mean, they wouldn't even trade freaking Lucas Duda for a fair return last year - you think they're going to suddenly become reasonable when it comes to dealing one of their two franchise pitchers?


This is an excellent point Greg, we traded Duda for fringe bullpen prospect in Drew Smith from the Rays instead of a better deal supposedly offered from the Yanks. There is no shot that the Mets are trading with the Yankees. Not sure why this is so hard for people to comprehend.
RE: Are you sure about that?  
Dunedin81 : 7/2/2018 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14004485 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
We've endured more than a few horrific starts from Sonny Gray.


Cash is invested in Gray. Harvey would be a flyer.
I don't think the Mets will deal with the Yankees either  
bceagle05 : 7/2/2018 12:28 pm : link
but if the Mets apply the same logic to a deGrom trade that they do to a Duda trade, they're in worse shape than we think. I can almost understand shipping a fringe player like Duda elsewhere - you're not getting much for a player like that anyway, so why risk having him hit a big playoff HR to help the Yankees win a World Series? But deGrom is a different story - if you put a player like that on the market, you HAVE to take the best deal, regardless of who it is. It's a potential franchising-changing deal. Cashman was making that point the other day, likely with a purpose. He said when they made the decision to "fight another day" and trade Miller and Chapman, they were open to trading them anywhere, even the Red Sox.
Why is Sonny Gray so bad, anyway  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 12:30 pm : link
I know his detractors like to deny it, but he actually was a rather good starter in Oakland. Some regression would be explainable, but he's become basically the worst starter in the AL. Maybe all of MLB, I don't know, I don't pay close enough attention to the NL to know.
RE: I don't think the Mets will deal with the Yankees either  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14004527 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Cashman was making that point the other day, likely with a purpose. He said when they made the decision to "fight another day" and trade Miller and Chapman, they were open to trading them anywhere, even the Red Sox.


Frankly, as arrogant as this sounds, that's why the Yankees are the Yankees and the Mets are the Mets.

Also, a fair deal for deGrom is STILL pretty steep, perhaps steeper than Cashman is willing to pay anyway.
bceagle  
figgy2989 : 7/2/2018 12:32 pm : link
And that is why Mets fans don't trust ownership, they have taken less on deals on the past as not to help the Yanks. When you have two franchise players, if they do decide to trade them, you better get a haul of a return no matter who the trade partner is. If it is leaked (which you know it will be), that they made a trade and there was a better offer on the table from the Yanks...

Fuck it, I am getting pissed just thinking about it.
Call our pal Jeter  
xman : 7/2/2018 12:35 pm : link
and see what he has to offer. At least he might trade Realmuto
.  
arcarsenal : 7/2/2018 12:36 pm : link
Gray seems like one of those guys who just gets lost between the ears. He has stuff to succeed - and we've seen it on occasion. He was fantastic in Toronto a few weeks ago and once in a while, he has outings where you say "ah, there it is!" but then he just has these absolutely non-competitive outings like we saw on Saturday where you feel like you just can't trust him anywhere.

I guess the bottom line at this point is that there's no way he can be trusted in a postseason game barring some miraculous turnaround.
RE: Why is Sonny Gray so bad, anyway  
Heisenberg : 7/2/2018 12:36 pm : link
In comment 14004530 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I know his detractors like to deny it, but he actually was a rather good starter in Oakland. Some regression would be explainable, but he's become basically the worst starter in the AL. Maybe all of MLB, I don't know, I don't pay close enough attention to the NL to know.


Ed Whitson syndrome
You're right about the Yankee trade tax from Toronto  
Heisenberg : 7/2/2018 12:41 pm : link
Toronto would probably ask for more than we wanted to give.

I've mostly thought that the pitching acquisition this year for Cashman would be more along the lines of Jaime Garcia. If this year's Jaime Garcia is Matt Harvey, I am down, I guess. I do agree that we will prob need options of guys to get 5 innings in the postseason. Harvey could do that and has some possibility for a little more. Hard to rely on him though.
Relying on a five and fly model in the postseason is dicey  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 12:43 pm : link
KC made it work for a few years, but you are betting that ALL of your relievers will be lights out game in and game out. That's tough to pull off, even with an excellent pen.
RE: bceagle  
rich in DC : 7/2/2018 12:43 pm : link
In comment 14004532 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
And that is why Mets fans don't trust ownership, they have taken less on deals on the past as not to help the Yanks. When you have two franchise players, if they do decide to trade them, you better get a haul of a return no matter who the trade partner is. If it is leaked (which you know it will be), that they made a trade and there was a better offer on the table from the Yanks...

Fuck it, I am getting pissed just thinking about it.


If you are a Mets fan, would you be willing to trade deGrom or Thor to the Braves- who may have the most impressive group of young arms around?

For example, would a Mets fan be willing to face deGrom for another 6-7 years in a Braves uniform in exchange for a package of something like: Kyle Wright, Koby Allard, Austin Riley and maybe Christian Pache?
Price  
DanMetroMan : 7/2/2018 12:44 pm : link
on realmuto is said to be enormous. As it should be.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/2/2018 12:44 pm : link
If I'm not mistaken, NYY/TOR actually have a fairly solid business relationship, no?

I don't think the Yankee tax would necessarily be too steep on Happ.

He's not a particularly exciting acquisition, but he does pitch well against BOS - which could be important when we see them again next month.

Putting Gray out there against the Red Sox is like the Red Sox putting Price on the mound against us. It's basically a forfeit.
Urena is pretty much a league average starter...  
Dunedin81 : 7/2/2018 12:48 pm : link
Idk what the ask is.

The issue with Gray is that he has been brilliant in a few starts this year, he still has the stuff. It is primarily a mental issue.
RE: .  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 12:50 pm : link
In comment 14004550 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
If I'm not mistaken, NYY/TOR actually have a fairly solid business relationship, no?


Actually, no. The only deals I can remember between the teams are: getting Mondesi in 2002, Clemens for Wells in 1999, Cone for three scrub minor leaguers in 1995. Going back into the 1980s, there was Jessie Barfield for Al Leiter in 1988 and whatever deal it was that sent Fred McGriff there when he was a teenager.
RE: RE: bceagle  
figgy2989 : 7/2/2018 12:54 pm : link
In comment 14004547 rich in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 14004532 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


And that is why Mets fans don't trust ownership, they have taken less on deals on the past as not to help the Yanks. When you have two franchise players, if they do decide to trade them, you better get a haul of a return no matter who the trade partner is. If it is leaked (which you know it will be), that they made a trade and there was a better offer on the table from the Yanks...

Fuck it, I am getting pissed just thinking about it.



If you are a Mets fan, would you be willing to trade deGrom or Thor to the Braves- who may have the most impressive group of young arms around?

For example, would a Mets fan be willing to face deGrom for another 6-7 years in a Braves uniform in exchange for a package of something like: Kyle Wright, Koby Allard, Austin Riley and maybe Christian Pache?


rich I just want this team to make a good move for once that sets them up for the future. As a Mets fan, I don't care who they trade them to as long as the return is worth it. To be honest, I would rather trade with the Yanks then anyone in our division as you don't want them coming back to beat you every year. However, if the Braves put together a package that included their top prospects and that is the best deal offered, then you have to take it.

Make no mistake about it, the Wilpon's pay attention to what is written about them and Jeff thinks he is always the "smartest man in the room", which is why he and Sandy had such a good working relationship.
fun fact  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 12:56 pm : link
Before Friday night, the Sawx hadn't lost a game by more than six runs all year. They've now lost two of three by 7 and 10 runs. :)
The Reds are going to try and trade Harvey  
arniefez : 7/2/2018 1:11 pm : link
why wouldn't they he's a free agent and will leave for nothing after this year. The Yankees have several MiLB pitchers who will be rule 5 eligible after this year. Too many to put all of them on 40 man. I'd be all in favor of the Yankees making a list of those pitchers and offering two off the list for someone like Harvey or Harvey himself. There is nothing to lose. Give him a few starts and if he craps the bed let him sit in the bullpen in September when the rosters expand and then he's gone once the season ends.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 7/2/2018 1:12 pm : link
In comment 14004558 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14004550 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


If I'm not mistaken, NYY/TOR actually have a fairly solid business relationship, no?



Actually, no. The only deals I can remember between the teams are: getting Mondesi in 2002, Clemens for Wells in 1999, Cone for three scrub minor leaguers in 1995. Going back into the 1980s, there was Jessie Barfield for Al Leiter in 1988 and whatever deal it was that sent Fred McGriff there when he was a teenager.


Someone said they did during the broadcast yesterday or the day before. I forget who it was. I guess they were wrong.
RE: .  
section125 : 7/2/2018 1:16 pm : link
In comment 14004550 arcarsenal said:
Quote:

Putting Gray out there against the Red Sox is like the Red Sox putting Price on the mound against us. It's basically a forfeit.


So you make sure Gray starts vs Price....18-15 is a good final score.
arc  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 1:27 pm : link
I can't swear that's a complete list, but those are the only notable trades between the teams that I can think of.

Now that I'm looking through transaction histories, I missed one - the Rob Refsnyder for Ryan McBroom blockbuster.
RE: RE: bceagle  
Jay on the Island : 7/2/2018 1:29 pm : link
In comment 14004547 rich in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 14004532 figgy2989 said:


Quote:


And that is why Mets fans don't trust ownership, they have taken less on deals on the past as not to help the Yanks. When you have two franchise players, if they do decide to trade them, you better get a haul of a return no matter who the trade partner is. If it is leaked (which you know it will be), that they made a trade and there was a better offer on the table from the Yanks...

Fuck it, I am getting pissed just thinking about it.



If you are a Mets fan, would you be willing to trade deGrom or Thor to the Braves- who may have the most impressive group of young arms around?

For example, would a Mets fan be willing to face deGrom for another 6-7 years in a Braves uniform in exchange for a package of something like: Kyle Wright, Koby Allard, Austin Riley and maybe Christian Pache?


The Braves are no longer interested in trading for a front line SP due to the breakout seasons of Foltynewicz and Newcomb. Soroka was pitching very well before going on the 60 day DL. Luiz Gohara, Max Fried, Kolby Allard, and Touki Toussaint are all ready or will be by seasons end. What the Braves need is another OF next year and a couple of relievers.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 7/2/2018 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14004588 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14004550 arcarsenal said:


Quote:



Putting Gray out there against the Red Sox is like the Red Sox putting Price on the mound against us. It's basically a forfeit.



So you make sure Gray starts vs Price....18-15 is a good final score.


LOL, I was going to say - just match Gray up against Price @ Fenway and we'll have a shot.
RE: arc  
arcarsenal : 7/2/2018 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14004600 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I can't swear that's a complete list, but those are the only notable trades between the teams that I can think of.

Now that I'm looking through transaction histories, I missed one - the Rob Refsnyder for Ryan McBroom blockbuster.


You're probably right, I just took their word for it and assumed they were right. I can't even remember who the hell said it, I think it was during the Fox broadcast so it wasn't even anyone in the YES booth.
I'm really looking forward to beating up on the Braves  
Greg from LI : 7/2/2018 1:34 pm : link
'90s nostalgia week!
RE: Are you sure about that?  
njm : 7/2/2018 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14004485 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
We've endured more than a few horrific starts from Sonny Gray.


And Gray has been getting booed at home. Do we know with any certainty whatsoever how Harvey would handle that?
A horrible idea  
PaulN : 7/2/2018 2:16 pm : link
Worst idea I have heard. Just keep the young guys in there before we get that guy who has nothing left in the tank, it's not about handling New York, that talk is for morons. it is about his stuff, Sonny Gray does not have the stuff to win in this division, that is why he struggles, not because he can't handle new York, he struggles with his interviews because he can't handle New York. He does not have a put away pitch anymore, and neither does Harvey. He is where he belongs.
This all depends on what Harvey would fetch  
jcn56 : 7/2/2018 2:21 pm : link
Obviously if someone says Andujar you hang up the phone quicker than you picked it up, but if it's some single A prospect that isn't lighting the world on fire, why the hell not?
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