- He's coming off a serious injury.
- He won't be back until January (maybe).
- He's lazy and selfish.
- The Pelicans were actually better with him on the bench than on the floor.
- He's coming off a serious injury.
- He won't be back until January (maybe).
- He's lazy and selfish.
- The Pelicans were actually better with him on the bench than on the floor.
It's less about that and more the fact that this player is taking a deal like this to ring chase in his 20's. It's completely ridiculous.
Of course they don't need him. But it's just silly.
Cousins is going to miss 1/4 of the season, and then is primed for a 2nd half and playoff run. If he snags a ring a giant contract, why not. He's banked 60M in his career. And he's going to get a max when he proves his health.
- He's coming off a serious injury.
- He won't be back until January (maybe).
- He's lazy and selfish.
- The Pelicans were actually better with him on the bench than on the floor.
Coming off an injury to a team that will be in zero rush for him to play.
He will not be lazy and selfish on that team i can guarantee you that.
How is a 1 year deal a risk? He's 27 years old. There's still plenty of money for him to be made.
This is stupid.
Because he can easily get hurt again. Passing up X (let's say somewhere between 20 and 120 million) for 5 million is a risk for a guy coming off a serious injury, especially a man his size.
Ha. They won't even make it to the finals. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. He's lucky they don't care about PEDs in the NBA Id love to know what his test and HGH levels really are. Not as much of a dirt bag as Jordan
But Michael was able to hide his bad character traits a lot better
Due to the injury and the lack of teams with cap space, there wasn't a huge market for him. Perfect situation for him to rebuild his value and then re-enter free agency next summer.
not exactly franchises that get the most out of their players. I’m guessing he will fully buy into what GS is trying to do, why else would he go there and forego a much bigger payday?
RE: I'm not an NBA fan but I find this topic interesting Â
Why is "ring chasing" a negative? I thought we respected athletes that want to win titles.
The goalpost on that is constantly moving.
Fans want unselfish players. Player takes less money to win, it gets dismissed as ring chasing or taking the easy path.
The only way that seems to be acceptable to fans is to struggle and languish in hell with the team that drafted you and hopefully win one when you're 35 and on creaky knees.
RE: I'm not an NBA fan but I find this topic interesting Â
God. A lot of people overreacting. He's coming off a serious injury & probably won't be available until 2019. And it's a 1 year deal.
They don’t need him at all so if he isn’t ready until January than so be it. How is it overreacting, if he comes back to 100% it’s a massive massive steal.
RE: RE: I'm not an NBA fan but I find this topic interesting Â
The only way that seems to be acceptable to fans is to struggle and languish in hell with the team that drafted you and hopefully win one when you're 35 and on creaky knees.
Sounds like he wanted the Lakers but I guess they're waiting on Kawhi next year. What's he gonna do? Go back to Sacramento for a year? Might as well get a ring.
How about someone in this league tries to BEAT the Warriors instead of everyone joining them instead?
I'd like to see a competitive league. Not a league where you know who the champion is before a single game is played.
Did anyone know the Eagles would win the Super Bowl before last season started or even be there at all?
Did anyone know the Caps would finally get over the hump and win the Cup? Did anyone know they'd be against VEGAS?!
How many people had Houston winning the World Series last year? That was absolutely not a foregone conclusion and they easily could have lost to the Yanks in that Game 7.
I personally don't find any enjoyment in this and I can't imagine anyone outside of Warriors fans does either with some very small exceptions.
& in the NBA when you are well run and maintain flexibility, opportunity comes. Warriors have taken advantage of this and will likely continue to win titles.
. What is this for the MLE? How much money did he leave on the table? At least $15 million this year. Insane.
He could have gotten a max contract literally anywhere with the cap room. No question about that.
what teams were lining up to pay him the max? It was reported in a couple of spots (Zach Lowe among others) that Dallas was really the only team with the cap space and looking to contend next season that would have interest in him on a big deal. And from the looks of it, they may have had their eye on DJ as their first choice.
- He's coming off a serious injury.
- He won't be back until January (maybe).
- He's lazy and selfish.
- The Pelicans were actually better with him on the bench than on the floor.
You can downplay it any way you want but:
He’s an upgrade over Javale McGee
The Warriors don’t need him
This move keeps him from a competitor
The Warriors starting five is essentially an all-star team. Ditto the others who said the NBA is a joke.
- He's coming off a serious injury.
- He won't be back until January (maybe).
- He's lazy and selfish.
- The Pelicans were actually better with him on the bench than on the floor.
It's less about that and more the fact that this player is taking a deal like this to ring chase in his 20's. It's completely ridiculous.
Of course they don't need him. But it's just silly.
I agree, but it shouldn't be a surprising outcome. The narrative these days is "Player X can't be considered an elite player because he has 0 rings," or even, "Kobe is better than LeBron because LeBron only has three rings."
RE: I doubt Boogie is the same player he was before the injury. Â
He could be 50% of what he was and they still win the Finals again easy.
I’m not faulting him for this, his market wasn’t strong and he surrounds himself with a bunch of stars to win a ring and get a max contract next year. It’s a win win for him and the Warriors. It’s just a loss for the rest of the league and all of its fans lol.
How about someone in this league tries to BEAT the Warriors instead of everyone joining them instead?
I'd like to see a competitive league. Not a league where you know who the champion is before a single game is played.
Did anyone know the Eagles would win the Super Bowl before last season started or even be there at all?
Did anyone know the Caps would finally get over the hump and win the Cup? Did anyone know they'd be against VEGAS?!
How many people had Houston winning the World Series last year? That was absolutely not a foregone conclusion and they easily could have lost to the Yanks in that Game 7.
I personally don't find any enjoyment in this and I can't imagine anyone outside of Warriors fans does either with some very small exceptions.
Plus a million.
RE: I'm not an NBA fan but I find this topic interesting Â
Why is "ring chasing" a negative? I thought we respected athletes that want to win titles.
It is funny hearing people say it's a "problem" that players are willing to leave millions on the table to win. It's a free market. How do you stop people willing to take that much less to join a team aside from the NBA assigning teams every year. You can't and shouldn't.
How about someone in this league tries to BEAT the Warriors instead of everyone joining them instead?
I'd like to see a competitive league. Not a league where you know who the champion is before a single game is played.
well Houston took a big swing at it...and nearly pulled off the upset. But this isn't really a new thing in the NBA. Once in a while you get teams making an unexpected run to the finals...and there's been very few "surprise" champions.
Best way to upend things would be throwing out the whole cap system and salary limits and going with an NFL style hard cap without any exceptions. Stars would most likely be more evenly dispersed throughout the league.
I doubt GS will rush him but he will play this year.
Ok, since I deserve the number 1 spot on the BBI douche list. Ill go out and say this...
Kawahi, Durant, and Boogie could all be FA's next year.
Kawahi has expressed playing in LA.
Magic spoke to cousins already.
Durant has been texting with Lebron.
LA has taken a ton fo 1 year deals.
LA has expressed interest in trading all of their young players.
How about someone in this league tries to BEAT the Warriors instead of everyone joining them instead?
I'd like to see a competitive league. Not a league where you know who the champion is before a single game is played.
well Houston took a big swing at it...and nearly pulled off the upset. But this isn't really a new thing in the NBA. Once in a while you get teams making an unexpected run to the finals...and there's been very few "surprise" champions.
Best way to upend things would be throwing out the whole cap system and salary limits and going with an NFL style hard cap without any exceptions. Stars would most likely be more evenly dispersed throughout the league.
Yeah, it's a structural issue - I don't blame the players, they're doing what's within their rights.
I just personally think it makes for a ridiculously unexciting product. Most of us are Knicks fans - we know we're going to suck next year. It is what it is. But I'd like to see there be a few teams that actually have a real chance at beating the Warriors.
Granted, Houston almost did it. Maybe if CP3 didn't get hurt they would have.
I just couldn't stand that Durant joined that team when he was so close to beating them. I wanted to see KD say "game 6 was on me, I choked - but I want to take another swing at it and beat those guys"
I personally just feel like all of this sucks for the league. But I guess this is still enjoyable for more people than I thought.
Something between the NBA and the NFL system I suppose. I admit this kind of feels like cheating now.
But ask yourself how you would feel if the Giants suddenly turned into what is widely considered to be the best run team in all of sports, with a outstanding, supportive culture that players claim is incredibly unique, and then won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and players like Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey chose to sign with them as a result.
Yeah, you'd probably kind of think of it's cheating too.
Something between the NBA and the NFL system I suppose. I admit this kind of feels like cheating now.
But ask yourself how you would feel if the Giants suddenly turned into what is widely considered to be the best run team in all of sports, with a outstanding, supportive culture that players claim is incredibly unique, and then won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and players like Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey chose to sign with them as a result.
Yeah, you'd probably kind of think of it's cheating too.
Listen I know we go back and forth, but I rather GS win it every year as long as they stay true to the unselfish basketball they play. I hate the game of ISO, and hate when Durant does it. When GS moves the ball, their brand of basketball is fun to watch.
I wouldnt mind a team like Minny, Denver, SA challenging them and taking them down (they arent) but I rather them than the ISO play of Westbrook, Harden/Paul, James.
Something between the NBA and the NFL system I suppose. I admit this kind of feels like cheating now.
But ask yourself how you would feel if the Giants suddenly turned into what is widely considered to be the best run team in all of sports, with a outstanding, supportive culture that players claim is incredibly unique, and then won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and players like Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey chose to sign with them as a result.
Yeah, you'd probably kind of think of it's cheating too.
The cap structure in the NFL wouldn't allow for it, though - there are so many more players that are vital to a teams success. In the NBA, one LeBron James gets you to the Finals with 1 decent player and 3 janitors.
You need WAY more than one elite player in the NFL. Way more. We've seen it with Odell. He's one of the absolute best players in the league and we've still had crap years with him here because so many other parts of the team were trash.
Sure, if the league were structured in such a way where a team could manage something like this and it was the Giants winning every single year I'd enjoy it - but I certainly wouldn't argue with people who said it was terrible for the rest of the league or made it much less enjoyable for them.
but I don't understand how when fans of most teams know they simply can't compete for a title anytime soon. Dynasties are fun in league like the NFL where they have to be built. We all hate the Patriots but it's hard to argue that they didn't earn every ring. But in the NBA where guys just choose to band together on one team to win? Kinda boring.
The NBA is starting to look like European soccer where only a handful of teams can win. Because of the salary cap it is different. GS simply cannot outspend everyone and once those players get old they will fall on hard times like the Bulls did. Compared to Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man City, Man United, Bayern Munich, etc who win every single year cause they have the most money.
that the narrative is that Adam Silver is an incredible commissioner who is never criticized. Maybe the rose is finally off the bloom for him.
The NBA bargaining agreement was under Stern I believe. Silver hates super teams. Hope he makes massive changes soon.
GET A FUCKING HARD CAP. And get rid of all the mid-level exceptions. Rise the salary cap if you have too.
This is what I always say. Enough with all of the fucking exceptions, loopholes, and bullshit. Create a hard cap. If it has to be a little higher, so be it.
I know a lot of people here aren't hockey fans, but I think the cap structure in the NHL is much fairer and makes much more sense. You can't really do this shit in the NHL. You can pay 2-3 guys 10M a year, but then the rest of your team is going to be full of JAG's and bottom 6 players.
The CBA in this league is completely ridiculous and way, way too complicated which creates all of this nonsense.
Something between the NBA and the NFL system I suppose. I admit this kind of feels like cheating now.
But ask yourself how you would feel if the Giants suddenly turned into what is widely considered to be the best run team in all of sports, with a outstanding, supportive culture that players claim is incredibly unique, and then won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and players like Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey chose to sign with them as a result.
Yeah, you'd probably kind of think of it's cheating too.
Listen I know we go back and forth, but I rather GS win it every year as long as they stay true to the unselfish basketball they play. I hate the game of ISO, and hate when Durant does it. When GS moves the ball, their brand of basketball is fun to watch.
I wouldnt mind a team like Minny, Denver, SA challenging them and taking them down (they arent) but I rather them than the ISO play of Westbrook, Harden/Paul, James.
Not sure how to reconcile this take and your ranting in the Lebron thread.
Something between the NBA and the NFL system I suppose. I admit this kind of feels like cheating now.
But ask yourself how you would feel if the Giants suddenly turned into what is widely considered to be the best run team in all of sports, with a outstanding, supportive culture that players claim is incredibly unique, and then won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and players like Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey chose to sign with them as a result.
Yeah, you'd probably kind of think of it's cheating too.
The cap structure in the NFL wouldn't allow for it, though - there are so many more players that are vital to a teams success. In the NBA, one LeBron James gets you to the Finals with 1 decent player and 3 janitors.
You need WAY more than one elite player in the NFL. Way more. We've seen it with Odell. He's one of the absolute best players in the league and we've still had crap years with him here because so many other parts of the team were trash.
Sure, if the league were structured in such a way where a team could manage something like this and it was the Giants winning every single year I'd enjoy it - but I certainly wouldn't argue with people who said it was terrible for the rest of the league or made it much less enjoyable for them.
It would be near impossible to form a super team in the NFL even if 6 or 7 elite guys agreed to join a team:
— all of their existing contracts would have to expire at or around the same time
— there would still be the threat of the various tags
— they would all have to be/stay healthy
— they’d all have to take absurdly low deals
— given the length of NFL careers, they’d all seriously jeopardize their future career earnings by either taking severely discounted long term deals or super cheap short deals w the risk of injury
You've got to give them that. And they seem to be playing chess while the rest of the league - except Boston, to a degree - are playing checkers.
I could see this move, actually, being a long term strategy too. Cousins is a vastly more talented player than DGreen. So maybe the Warriors are looking at this as an eventual investment to replace Green.
Haha, thank god my team sucks and I don’t really Â
care about the NBA. What a fucking joke the league has turned out to be. Don’t really know how to curb this, all these players going for the glamour and the easy way out. Where is the competitive spirit?!?!
The days of the one-team career are gone forever for stars but I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing. Good that players control their own destiny, can’t knock Boogie for doing what he wants.
You have to put yourself in their shoes. If you have the opportunity to thrust yourself into the middle of the league’s power struggle wouldn’t you consider it? Should these guys really waste away in situations where they will never, ever win a title (Sacramento or New Orleans for Boogie) out of loyalty or pride or whatever?
The league incentivizes them to do that, but there’s no much you can do if a player is willing to take less.
People killed Durant and to an extent I think it’s funny but if I am being honest I would have done the exact same thing as him. Have any of you guys been to Oklahoma City? It’s pretty bleak. Given the option of staying there or moving to the Bay Area to play for a great team with a guy like Kerr in charge I would not have to think very long about my decision.
Maybe it’s easier for me to accept all of this because I am a Knicks fan and I have not really felt like the Knicks were actually truly involved in the league for about 20 years now. My relationship to the rest of the NBA is basically sitting and watching it all unfold and kind of enjoying the spectacle, all the time knowing that my favorite team is of no concern to anyone and will probably not ever win anything.
Something between the NBA and the NFL system I suppose. I admit this kind of feels like cheating now.
But ask yourself how you would feel if the Giants suddenly turned into what is widely considered to be the best run team in all of sports, with a outstanding, supportive culture that players claim is incredibly unique, and then won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and players like Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey chose to sign with them as a result.
Yeah, you'd probably kind of think of it's cheating too.
The cap structure in the NFL wouldn't allow for it, though - there are so many more players that are vital to a teams success. In the NBA, one LeBron James gets you to the Finals with 1 decent player and 3 janitors.
You need WAY more than one elite player in the NFL. Way more. We've seen it with Odell. He's one of the absolute best players in the league and we've still had crap years with him here because so many other parts of the team were trash.
Sure, if the league were structured in such a way where a team could manage something like this and it was the Giants winning every single year I'd enjoy it - but I certainly wouldn't argue with people who said it was terrible for the rest of the league or made it much less enjoyable for them.
It would be near impossible to form a super team in the NFL even if 6 or 7 elite guys agreed to join a team:
— all of their existing contracts would have to expire at or around the same time
— there would still be the threat of the various tags
— they would all have to be/stay healthy
— they’d all have to take absurdly low deals
— given the length of NFL careers, they’d all seriously jeopardize their future career earnings by either taking severely discounted long term deals or super cheap short deals w the risk of injury
Yep - too many pieces, it just can't happen.
And teams who tried to do shit like that with older players didn't pan out - like the 2000 Redskins or the 2011 Eagles.
Funny enough, we were the ones who wound up winning the division and going to the SB both of those years.
But yeah - even if Pat Peterson, Jalen Ramsey, Von Miller, Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack and a bunch of other guys wanted to play together, the money would never work and the union would never allow for them to take the types of paycuts they'd have to take for something like that to happen.
The NBA feels like a playground where there's no actual authority and players just do whatever they want and go wherever they want.
I don't get why - why would fans of anyone but the Warriors, Celtics, and maybe the Rockets pay attention at all?
Agreed. I dont get it. How is this exciting seeing 4 teams dominate the entire league while you have the rest of league have absolutely ZERO chance at making a run at a title. I just dont understand it at all.
RE: RE: I'm not an NBA fan but I find this topic interesting Â
Why is "ring chasing" a negative? I thought we respected athletes that want to win titles.
It is funny hearing people say it's a "problem" that players are willing to leave millions on the table to win. It's a free market. How do you stop people willing to take that much less to join a team aside from the NBA assigning teams every year. You can't and shouldn't.
Yeah I fail to see the problem as well. Is it really better to artificially spread resources out evenly and create market forces to try to push teams into the middle of the pack? That's what the NFL does now, and the result is a fairly shitty product where success is as predicated on injury luck as much as anything else. Why not just watch a roulette wheel?
RE: RE: RE: I'm not an NBA fan but I find this topic interesting Â
Why is "ring chasing" a negative? I thought we respected athletes that want to win titles.
It is funny hearing people say it's a "problem" that players are willing to leave millions on the table to win. It's a free market. How do you stop people willing to take that much less to join a team aside from the NBA assigning teams every year. You can't and shouldn't.
Yeah I fail to see the problem as well. Is it really better to artificially spread resources out evenly and create market forces to try to push teams into the middle of the pack? That's what the NFL does now, and the result is a fairly shitty product where success is as predicated on injury luck as much as anything else. Why not just watch a roulette wheel?
Problem is top tier teams are very, very good. The bottom teams are unwatchable.
Yeah there are 5 teams worth watching try and get to the finals:
LA, Houston, GS, Philly, and Boston.
But there are some other things to watch:
What happens in Minny? Will they take the next step?
Can Denver be the most fun team in the league?
How far does the Greek Greak/AD take their teams?
Speaking of AD, does he look at Boston and say thats my path?
Phoenix should be a ton of fun to watch this year.
Much more of an individual, star-driven sport. Football is more about the top to bottom quality of your team and a whole hell of a lot about coaching, strategy, game plan.
Basketball is at least 75% your top tier talent and there are only five guys in the floor.
Honestly I think basketball works better with a handful of truly great teams. You just have to hope your team is one of them. Although I find it pretty easy to follow the Knicks and also stay interested in the top of the league. As I said before I think it’s easier because the Knicks are never actually in the mix.
RE: RE: RE: I'm not an NBA fan but I find this topic interesting Â
Why is "ring chasing" a negative? I thought we respected athletes that want to win titles.
It is funny hearing people say it's a "problem" that players are willing to leave millions on the table to win. It's a free market. How do you stop people willing to take that much less to join a team aside from the NBA assigning teams every year. You can't and shouldn't.
Yeah I fail to see the problem as well. Is it really better to artificially spread resources out evenly and create market forces to try to push teams into the middle of the pack? That's what the NFL does now, and the result is a fairly shitty product where success is as predicated on injury luck as much as anything else. Why not just watch a roulette wheel?
That’s a gross oversimplification of the NFL. Teams can dramatically change their fortune through the draft where stars can be found in any round and even after the draft. In the NBA a lottery pick may not even yield an above average starter. NFL teams have to be much more strategic about FA and contracts.
NFL is chess and the NBA is checkers from a team building perspective. At this point you’re essentially in one of two boats in the NBA — tanking for lottery picks in the hope you’ll land the next elite player or whoring yourself out for elite FAs.
NBA is the one sport where having multiple (3+) elite players Â
pretty much guarantees success. Three all pros teaming up in the NFL, NHL, MLB, soccer, etc. makes you a pretty good team on paper, but guarantees absolutely nothing. There is a huge difference with the NBA, but it seems like the youngsters like to watch so good for them. Most of these kids nowadays root for players not teams. I don't think that is a good thing, but that is just my opinion.
RE: NBA is the one sport where having multiple (3+) elite players Â
pretty much guarantees success. Three all pros teaming up in the NFL, NHL, MLB, soccer, etc. makes you a pretty good team on paper, but guarantees absolutely nothing. There is a huge difference with the NBA, but it seems like the youngsters like to watch so good for them. Most of these kids nowadays root for players not teams. I don't think that is a good thing, but that is just my opinion.
+1. I know two people who only root the team lebron is on. Fucking ridiculous.
It's been a Barn Storming League for as Long Long Time---not enough Stars and too many Cities---so the Big Shows and the big stars sweep through Towns. The Brand is the Characters over a span of years----it works for Television.
The sport Sucks----as a League. The Regular Season is a complete drag. The Playoffs are basically like World Cup---Great Stars and very competitive and intense.
How about someone in this league tries to BEAT the Warriors instead of everyone joining them instead?
I'd like to see a competitive league. Not a league where you know who the champion is before a single game is played.
Did anyone know the Eagles would win the Super Bowl before last season started or even be there at all?
Did anyone know the Caps would finally get over the hump and win the Cup? Did anyone know they'd be against VEGAS?!
How many people had Houston winning the World Series last year? That was absolutely not a foregone conclusion and they easily could have lost to the Yanks in that Game 7.
I personally don't find any enjoyment in this and I can't imagine anyone outside of Warriors fans does either with some very small exceptions.
Durant really raised his profile winning rings with the Warriors? Are we talking about him as one of the top 20 players in league’s history, which he has the talent to justify, now that he has two rings? I don’t know. For Cousins, how much satisfaction is winning a ring as the 4th or 5th player on the team? I mean, if you are Swaggy P, sure, but I am not so sure if you are Boogie Cousins and one of the prominent players iin the league.
And I don’t really care what the players are entitled to do. Sure, one fan’s sentiment matters little to them, but without us fans they are not making millions to play a game.
So we should punish the good, well-run teams to help the bad, poorly run teams?. How does that make sense?
Talent overcomes front offices in the NBA. I think a lot of teams in the NBA are more unlucky than poorly run. Generational players are very few in the NBA. And when they join together, there is only so much you can do. FO's are at the mercy of their best players.
I look at a team like Denver and Utah who are extremely well run right now, and they dont have snowsball chance in hell at winning because no one wants to go there.
So we should punish the good, well-run teams to help the bad, poorly run teams?. How does that make sense?
It makes sense in that the league's business is entertainment, not the purity of sport. If the league has a team destined to win the title year after year, what incentive is there for fans of other teams to buy tickets or merchandise? Why does anyone go to a Knicks game?
Getting fans invested in the product should be the goal. How does having 27 teams eliminated from contention on opening day do that? The NBA is making money but for how long if this continues?
There are never, ever upsets in the NBA. There are never upstart teams like the 2011 Giants.
There needs to be a balance. I don't have a problem with dynasties but this is absurd. There needs to be some kind of competitive balance.
The 2011 Giants probably don't win the Super Bowl if they have to win four best-out-of-seven playoff series. That's why single elimination playoffs will always be more exciting. Anything can happen. But it will never happen in the NBA.
When a team as thoroughly mediocre as the 2011 Giants wins the title I see that as a sign of an unhealthy league. Outside of that fans of that team who gives a shit about them?
The Warriors are a great team that has marked an era. Though to be fair are attention spans so short that a team winning 3 out of 4 is a problem?
RE: I'm not an NBA fan but I find this topic interesting Â
Why is "ring chasing" a negative? I thought we respected athletes that want to win titles.
Funny how that works right? Go after the money you’re greedy. Go after the situation or glory of winning and you’re a ring chaser.
The nba is a joke during the months of January through april or so. The rest of the time it’s fine.
Athletes have to win titles for the team that drafted them, preferably for less money than the market dictates. And definitely not win too often. That's very important too.
Defending the move and saying the Warriors built this from the ground up with great coaching, management, drafting and development. He’s 100% right and I think we all get that. But that doesn’t change the fact that it makes the entire season less exciting knowing there’s little chance for anyone to beat them.
At least LeBron didn’t sign with the Warriors, he’d easily win four Â
more rings and cement himself as the best player of all time.
If you are a prominent player, even coming off a serious injury, how can joining a team who already won and is in one of the most dominant runs in league history be good for your reputation/legacy and for the health of a competitive sports league?
You can argue that he owes the fans nothing, but you can’t argue that this is good for the league. How much more compelling next year would be had he signed for MLE with the Rockets, Celtics, Spurs or even the Lakers?
It's seems to me like the NFL is checkers to the NBA's chess. You can turn an NFL team around in a year; the system is set up to prop up the weak and hinder the strong. Seems like the NBA involves a longer vision.
RE: At least LeBron didn’t sign with the Warriors, he’d easily win four Â
more rings and cement himself as the best player of all time.
If you are a prominent player, even coming off a serious injury, how can joining a team who already won and is in one of the most dominant runs in league history be good for your reputation/legacy and for the health of a competitive sports league?
You can argue that he owes the fans nothing, but you can’t argue that this is good for the league. How much more compelling next year would be had he signed for MLE with the Rockets, Celtics, Spurs or even the Lakers?
It’s not his responsibility to do what’s best for the league. He wasn’t getting the money he wanted with a team he wanted in this market so he chose a one year deal with a contender. Why not get a ring while reestablishing your value and going back into free agency next year? It’s a one year deal, zero chance he’s back with them again next year unless he settles for another $5M which I highly doubt. And the Celtics were on his list FYI
Layout a plan for shitty NBA teams to get better. Just a heads up, loading up on draft picks rarely works out. And if you want to get better picks you basically have to throw the season away. Correction: throw multipls seasons away and tank. So, how would you turn around one of the many so-called shitty run teams?
(It isn't that teams are run shitty. It is bullshit rules.)
Layout a plan for shitty NBA teams to get better. Just a heads up, loading up on draft picks rarely works out. And if you want to get better picks you basically have to throw the season away. Correction: throw multipls seasons away and tank. So, how would you turn around one of the many so-called shitty run teams?
(It isn't that teams are run shitty. It is bullshit rules.)
How did Philly do it? How did Golden State? How did Cleveland?
Layout a plan for shitty NBA teams to get better. Just a heads up, loading up on draft picks rarely works out. And if you want to get better picks you basically have to throw the season away. Correction: throw multipls seasons away and tank. So, how would you turn around one of the many so-called shitty run teams?
(It isn't that teams are run shitty. It is bullshit rules.)
How did Philly do it? How did Golden State? How did Cleveland?
Philly did it by tanking for years. Golden State got lucky with Curry dropping to them in the draft. Cleveland did it by getting lucky with a generational talent in the draft. It isn't skill as much as it is luck or just pure tanking. Does that sound like a great league set up to you?
I don't care that Cousins is going to GS for cheap. Good for him and good for the Warriors. However, you cannot be so narrow minded and just say we shouldn't hurt the good teams. I agree with that but you have to look at the other side. The good teams, mediocre teams, and bad teams all get hurt unless they get a four leaf clover shoved up their ass when they take a shit.
I see that Steph Curry and Klay Thompson were picked 7th and 11th overall, respectively. So it's not like Golden State won a couple lotteries and got them each first overall. They later traded for Iguadola.
Now I am way out of my element here in NBA talk, but is the argument that Golden State shouldn't have been allowed to sign Durant and Cousins in free agency because they made two shrewd draft picks and a good trade?
Why is "ring chasing" a negative? I thought we respected athletes that want to win titles.
It is funny hearing people say it's a "problem" that players are willing to leave millions on the table to win. It's a free market. How do you stop people willing to take that much less to join a team aside from the NBA assigning teams every year. You can't and shouldn't.
Yeah I fail to see the problem as well. Is it really better to artificially spread resources out evenly and create market forces to try to push teams into the middle of the pack? That's what the NFL does now, and the result is a fairly shitty product where success is as predicated on injury luck as much as anything else. Why not just watch a roulette wheel?
Are you sure that's a result of salary cap limitations rather than practice restrictions?
I see that Steph Curry and Klay Thompson were picked 7th and 11th overall, respectively. So it's not like Golden State won a couple lotteries and got them each first overall. They later traded for Iguadola.
They also had the balls to trade Monta Ellis - a huge fan favorite - for an injured Andrew Bogut. And they resisted the urge to trade Thompson for Love. And they drafted Draymond Green in the 2nd.
It STILL feels weird to say this about the Warriors, but they're an exceptionally managed and led team now.
It's seems to me like the NFL is checkers to the NBA's chess. You can turn an NFL team around in a year; the system is set up to prop up the weak and hinder the strong. Seems like the NBA involves a longer vision.
A quick turnaround in the NFL can happen in a myriad of ways. Nail a draft or two. Hit on some key free agents. Key coaching staff changes. The NFL is more susceptible to injuries that impact seasons — maybe a team was unlucky with injuries and gets some positive regression the following year.
NBA is checkers because it’s all about accumulating superstars, period. Great coaching or scheme does not matter. The NBA coach of the year was fired after being named coach of the year. Bench play or depth is largely irrelevant. Solid team play is largely irrelevant evidenced by a trash Cleveland team being carried on Lebron’s back to the finals. The league is all about accumulating the most stars or the brightest shining star. So like I said, in order to get there teams take one of two approaches or worse they’re stuck in between with no sliver of hope.
I’m not a Celtics fan, but it just rubs me the wrong way that a team with a shrewd/excellent GM, the best coach in the game, and a bunch of young, home grown talent has zero shot at winning a title. Couldn’t even get past Lebron. The NFL twilight zone version of this would be like Redskins or Cowboys winning the Super Bowl every year in perpetuity.
Yeah there are 5 teams worth watching try and get to the finals:
LA, Houston, GS, Philly, and Boston.
But there are some other things to watch:
What happens in Minny? Will they take the next step?
Can Denver be the most fun team in the league?
How far does the Greek Greak/AD take their teams?
Speaking of AD, does he look at Boston and say thats my path?
Phoenix should be a ton of fun to watch this year.
All these “things to watch” are totally manufactured interest stories. No fan of the league is interested in what you posted above.
Yea! Let’s see how far Greek freak can take a no name roster. Maybe round 2 of the playoffs. I can’t wait!!!
The league is trash and thank god for fantasy sports or the nba would be totally unwatchable
That’s why this signing occurred . I hope he realizes he made a selfish decision that is antithetical to his family’s best interests . Other than that, why trash the Warriors? They seek to get better within the framework of the rules the league employs . And had Paul not been injured , they might have not been in the Finals.
I don’t like the way the game has evolved . I’d rather see the 3-point line removed . Bird said that once he retired . You get six points in football whether you have a 1-yard TD or a 99-yard TD. You get 1 Run in baseball whether you hit a 370 foot homer or a 470 one . But that’s just me . They had great ratings for the Finals . The NBA’s fan base is the youngest of the four, major US professional sports leagues .
It only takes a moron, I guess . He better hope he doesn’t sustain a career-ending injury even with the insurance policy .
you are making good points, but there is a huge point your missing. Tanking. It is a HUGE problem with the NBA & it has spilled into MLB as well.
Tanking isn’t a problem. It’s a strategy to get better. And isn’t that good?
If the fans don’t like it, they shouldn’t watch the game on TV or go to the game. Let the market speak. If the fans get the strategy, like the Sixers fans did because of the transparency of the Sixers front office, then it can actually work for all involved parties.
Look at last year for the Giants. The best thing they did was basically not win after OBJ went down (and of course others). They should have had the #1 pick, but sort of blew it with a late season win. Nevertheless, they got a #2 pick and a chance to begin a quicker rebuild process. Whether they took the right player/position remains to be seen, but aren’t you glad they had that pick versus, say, the #16 pick - a no man’s land pick - due to a mediocre season?
has said tanking is a huge problem in the nba. Just because the league is making money doesn’t mean it’s a good thing. Philly is such a shitty example considering how fucking long they’ve been tanking and STILL aren’t the best team in the east even after LeBron leaves. And teams tank all the time in the nba and it almost never works out.
Don’t really know how anyone can applaud it as a strategy. It’s gutless.
That’s why this signing occurred . I hope he realizes he made a selfish decision that is antithetical to his family’s best interests . Other than that, why trash the Warriors? They seek to get better within the framework of the rules the league employs . And had Paul not been injured , they might have not been in the Finals.
I don’t like the way the game has evolved . I’d rather see the 3-point line removed . Bird said that once he retired . You get six points in football whether you have a 1-yard TD or a 99-yard TD. You get 1 Run in baseball whether you hit a 370 foot homer or a 470 one . But that’s just me . They had great ratings for the Finals . The NBA’s fan base is the youngest of the four, major US professional sports leagues .
It only takes a moron, I guess . He better hope he doesn’t sustain a career-ending injury even with the insurance policy .
Yeah, he better hope he doesn't rupture his Achilles or something like similar. Because if he did that and had to miss most of the year, he might have to sign for the MLE somewhere.
Its funny how people forget that the NBA has rarely had Â
I see that Steph Curry and Klay Thompson were picked 7th and 11th overall, respectively. So it's not like Golden State won a couple lotteries and got them each first overall. They later traded for Iguadola.
They also had the balls to trade Monta Ellis - a huge fan favorite - for an injured Andrew Bogut. And they resisted the urge to trade Thompson for Love. And they drafted Draymond Green in the 2nd.
It STILL feels weird to say this about the Warriors, but they're an exceptionally managed and led team now.
I don't think anyone can argue they aren't ridiculously well run, drafted great and deserve to be competing for the title every year. I think the point is its a joke to have Durant and Cousins go there and make a mockery out of any competition. There's nothing you can do about changing the rules to stop that, The league already has tried to do that through the Bird exception and extra financial incentive for FA's to stay with teams. As a Warrior fan you should be loving it. Just don't expect us fans of other teams to give a shit and be impressed at this point.
RE: Its funny how people forget that the NBA has rarely had Â
And now folks seem most mad that the players are choosing to play for a championship instead of dudes in front offices choosing them.
I hate this argument. Because it historically didn’t have much parity means we should all just accept it forever? The way the league is set up, allowing for stacking teams creates a severe and artificial lack of parity. If you are fine with it that’s great, but I don’t see how you anyone can’t atleast understand the other side of this. It shouldn’t be a shock that people are turned off by the nba because of it.
They are either too greedy or they are cherry picking championships. Maybe Cousins made the best decision for himself. God forbid.
Cousins made a really good move, good for him. My problem isn’t with him since if he was 100% healthy and killing it he wouldn’t forego a max deal for $5 million, rather, my issue is with the top players in the game and what they do, often times hanging their previous franchise out to dry in the process.
I think the vast majority of posters on this thread need to set aside the name and understand Cousins suffered a really substantial injury, one there isn't a great track record for returning, and at best will miss a lot of the season
Go ahead and show me the max contract Cousins left on the table. Offering a player with demonstrable personality concerns and a ruptured Achilles massive money would indicate more wrong with the league than him signing the MLE.
really a debate on whether or not it is easier to build a winning team in the NFL vs. the NBA??
The NFL has a lot of safeguards in place to ensure parity. It is very difficult to have a strategy that ensures long-term success. You have to pretty much hit on having an excellent coach, a franchise QB and avoid dehabilitating injuries, and even then, success may be fleeting
The formula in the NBA is pretty well known. Get 2-3 stars to come to your team. You can get the stars either through the draft or FA, but you just need to get them and you'll be competitive.
The trick is getting them, but the formula is pretty much fool-proof. There is no magic formula in the NFL that ensures success, especially long-term.
now every fan in the NBA outside of Boston and GS knows what the regular season has been like for Knicks fans for the better of 20 years....a long waste of time and a race to the offseason.
The Knicks aren't close to winning anything so I really don't care much about this stuff, but I laugh at some of the reactions. People have overrotated to the players a bit here. So now players just want to win so they should be applauded and now we should clap for the players because they control their own destiny, not some old stiff white guy in the front office. It's not about the owners vs players, once again it's the fans of teams that get screwed.
In regards to moves like Cousins. I'm not gonna applaud the guy for trying to win. I love guys that try to win, everyone should do whatever it takes to win, but I hate guys that need to take the easy road to do it. Lebron left Cle twice because they weren't the favorites anymore. He left Miami when they no longer had an easy road to the finals. Durant joined the 73 win Warriors after taking them to the brink the year before. I respect a guy like Westbrook more. He doesn't want to join those guys, he wants to beat them. So no, I won't applaud these spoiled brats for wanting to win, how about you show some competitive fire and try to beat those guys.
of the lack of parity. It's the exact opposite of the NFL. The CBA is setup for the rich to get much richer. It will change the next time there's a negotiation.
RE: RE: Its funny how people forget that the NBA has rarely had Â
And now folks seem most mad that the players are choosing to play for a championship instead of dudes in front offices choosing them.
I hate this argument. Because it historically didn’t have much parity means we should all just accept it forever? The way the league is set up, allowing for stacking teams creates a severe and artificial lack of parity. If you are fine with it that’s great, but I don’t see how you anyone can’t atleast understand the other side of this. It shouldn’t be a shock that people are turned off by the nba because of it.
I get the other side. But the system is what the system is. The owners have set up a salary cap that restricts the salaries that they can give out and the players choose what is best for them. Some pull a Melo and get the biggest checks they can get. Some take less to win. KD took less. LBJ, Bosh, Wade took less. Boogie is taking less. All these "super teams" start with at least one player taking less in order to win. I can see why it makes the league less fun for some folks but I just think the outrage over it is a bit nuts.
with players taking less money to go to a winning team or to play in a better situation.
I thought this was an interesting tweet, though:
Quote:
@AnthonyIrwinLA
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LeBron and Chris Paul are put in lose-lose situations. Being the heads of the union, they have to accept full contracts at their peak rate. Taking less is basically a disservice to their titles.
Doing so while the Warriors keep taking less means they have no chance at competing.
as a Curry and Kerr fan, signing Boogie sucks for me, personally, as a fan.
When the Warriors signed Durant, it killed all the excitement I had watching Curry play and watching Kerr as a coach. The only way I can describe it is that there was no longer any "juice" in watching Curry play.
I was no longer on the edge of my seat seeing if Curry could lead his team on an explosion and carry the offense and pull runs out of his ass. Now, with Steph, Klay, and Durant all on the same time, the spacing is so insane that these guys are always open and someone is bound to go off. Curry's shots were no longer as consequential when Durant, maybe the best iso scorer ever, was on the court with him.
Now, with Boogie on the team, it's even more ridiculous. There's no longer any "juice" in watching Curry or the Warriors.
Ah well.
As a NYK fan this matters little to me. I haven’t tuned into Â
a non-Knick game in years though. I can’t imagine real fans of the non-chosen, have-nots teams bothering to show up to watch the Warriors run circles around their team.
The days of two or three stars on each team and you could tune in to watch interesting matchups are long gone I guess. I mean, how fun is it to watch the Warriors take turn shooting 3’s and beating teams by 40 every night?
And I don’t care how many rings KD wins, to me he will just be part of this Warriors ensemble.
It it really a bad thing as a fan to want to see players embrace competition and want to beat one another rather than everyone just jumping on the express train to a title?
I still haven't seen a good argument as to how this is good for the league or makes it at all enjoyable.
What's the point of being invested in it. The Warriors are going to win again next summer unless half their players get hurt.
As a Knicks fan who already knows my team has no hope, I'd want to actually watch the NBA if it was competitive elsewhere but it's not. That's why it sucks.
I'm not blaming the players. I think the salary cap structure sucks with all of these stupid exceptions and loopholes. The league has literally become all about tanking because it's the only option teams have if they don't have one of these superteams.
Team building isn't even a thing. There's no strategy. 2-3 of these guys get together somewhere, decide they want to play together and then teams do all sorts of contract dumping to accommodate the bullshit.
I just fail to see where there's any excitement in the NBA right now or what reason anyone other than fans of maybe 4 teams have any reason whatsoever to be invested or give any sort of a shit.
I bring him up because look at what he did. He knew without the NFL there was no Giants. He fought hard to have a way for the small market teams to compete.
Now, the NBA is different bht in principal it is the same. It isn't the "small market" team that cannot compete. Now it is just many not fortunate teams. There are only so many stars to go around and they are all going to just a handful of teams. You better believe this is a problem. Tbis isnt dynasty talk anymore. Dynasties back then were built totally differently. The dynasties today are built by destroying the majority of teams. This is absolutely a problem and the commissioner has admitted so.
There are never, ever upsets in the NBA. There are never upstart teams like the 2011 Giants.
There needs to be a balance. I don't have a problem with dynasties but this is absurd. There needs to be some kind of competitive balance.
The 2011 Giants probably don't win the Super Bowl if they have to win four best-out-of-seven playoff series. That's why single elimination playoffs will always be more exciting. Anything can happen. But it will never happen in the NBA.
Every playoff game is game 7 in the NFL. Which makes it more exciting. Obviously if football wasn't so physically taxing I'm sure the league would kill for a 7 game series.
The 2011 Giants probably don't win the Super Bowl if they have to win four best-out-of-seven playoff series. That's why single elimination playoffs will always be more exciting. Anything can happen. But it will never happen in the NBA.
There are massive upsets in baseball and hockey, and those have best of seven series as well. In 2014 an 88 win Royals beat the 89 win Giants. 2006, the 83 win Cardinals had the worst record ever by a World Series champ. In the NHL there aren't too many jaw-dropping Cup winners, but there ARE a ton of favorites who get knocked off in the first two rounds, something that almost never happens in basketball.
One thing the NBA needs to adopt is a 1-16 playoff seeding. The 16 best teams, regardless of conference, get in. The West is stacked compared to the East.
As many have said, the league is broken right now. The players have all of the power, and that has been a big factor in why we are at the point now where there are realistically, 2, maybe 3 teams that have a shot at a title heading in to next season.
The current system of having a soft cap has to go. It is ridiculous that due to the timing of contracts and multiple exceptions, that a team like Golden State can have a payroll of $140 million dollars while the team that they just played in the first round of the playoffs, the Pelicans, is "capped out" at $111,000. Or to take it even further, our Knicks have no money left to spend and have a payroll of $105 million. How is a team supposed to compete when they are only able to spend 75% of what some of the competition is spending?
They need to put a hard cap in place, no bird rights, no exceptions. Put in a $150 million hard cap and let everyone be on a level playing field.
On top of that, teams need to have some type of protection that prevents players like Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, Kyrie Irving, etc. from holding them hostage. You know how you prevent Kevin Durant from teaming up with the Warriors? Give each team the equivalent of a franchise tag that they can designate to one player. The NBA more than any other league is star dependent, so teams should have some type of protection in place to prevent their stars from holding them hostage and forcing a trade the way they do now. Where are the New Orleans Pelicans going to be in 2 years if they lose Anthony Davis? How about the Knicks if they are unable to retain Kristaps Porzingis? Take the leverage away from the players in these situations and let the teams have more control over the guys they draft.
The fact that so many here reference that team as being mediocre is pathetic. The 2011 Giants perfectly represent what the team was from 2005-2012 & had some fantastic wins which include sweeping the Patriots.
Just amazing some fans will always find something to bitch about.
I try to keep telling myself that this signing could backfire on them. He could fracture the lockeroom, hurt their switching defense and just cause problems. How a talented offensive player who turns it over and doesn't try hard on D is the last type of center the Warriors need.
But it doesn't matter. They are replacing Zaza with an all nba talent. Even if he comes back at 70%, he will still help that team dominate. And they don't even need him to close out games. Their best lineup is still with Iguodola. But it sucks becuase it an ideal world, Boogie is the type of player that could hurt the warriors and now they just signed him for 5 mill.
What the hell were the Lakers thinking? Why not throw 10-15 mill at him instead of the scrubs they just signed? I don't get what they are doing.
But for the larger part on the state of the NBA, check out the linked article. It makes some great points about how important narratives are in sports and how they need to deliver entertainment. The NBA is failing at that on the some levels right now. Good Article - ( New Window )
RE: Getting so tired of the 2011 Giants narrative.. Â
I try to keep telling myself that this signing could backfire on them. He could fracture the lockeroom, hurt their switching defense and just cause problems. How a talented offensive player who turns it over and doesn't try hard on D is the last type of center the Warriors need.
- ( New Window )
It definitely could - but the Warriors don't need Boogie. He's a luxury. If he starts giving half-assed efforts, he won't play
RE: RE: Its funny how people forget that the NBA has rarely had Â
Yeah there are 5 teams worth watching try and get to the finals:
LA, Houston, GS, Philly, and Boston.
But there are some other things to watch:
What happens in Minny? Will they take the next step?
Can Denver be the most fun team in the league?
How far does the Greek Greak/AD take their teams?
Speaking of AD, does he look at Boston and say thats my path?
Phoenix should be a ton of fun to watch this year.
All these “things to watch” are totally manufactured interest stories. No fan of the league is interested in what you posted above.
Yea! Let’s see how far Greek freak can take a no name roster. Maybe round 2 of the playoffs. I can’t wait!!!
The league is trash and thank god for fantasy sports or the nba would be totally unwatchable
For real. That list is extremely uninteresting. Those are not compelling storylines at all.
parity = good, no parity = bad. It’s how said parity is achieved that I have issues with.
I have no problem with the Pats dynasty, for example. I had no problem with GS originally when they hit HRs with Curry, Thompson, and Green. I had no problem with the Spurs success over the past 15/20 years.
how long should a team be able to have control over a player it drafted? When should a player get to decide where he wants to work/live?
Teams can pick up the 3rd and 4th year of a rookie player's contract. They can then make a qualifying offer to make the player a restricted free agent and could then potentially match a deal for another 4 years (if I'm not mistaken). Essentially, team could keep a player it likes for the first 8 years of his career.
My other issue with franchise tags (more so in the NFL) is that it prevents players from signing multi-year deals when injuries could completely derail them. The franchise tag should require that the team takes out an insurance policy against the player's injury and loss of future earnings.
none of those stories are interesting in today’s nba. Maybe if any of them had even just a 5% chance of making serious noise I’d consider it interesting, but they don’t, and it won’t be interesting.
But if you're going to artificially rig how teams can acquire players supposedly in the name of maintaining a certain level of competition, then a system that results in the Superfriends kind of shit the NBA has now is both wrong and useless.
RE: RE: Getting so tired of the 2011 Giants narrative.. Â
The fact that so many here reference that team as being mediocre is pathetic.
As compared to other NFL champions? Yes, within that subset they were absolutely mediocre by every measure.
This isn’t the 2005 Steelers beating Matt Hasselback and the Seahawks in the SB. I’ll take 9-7 and beating a 15-1 Packer team in Lambeau & Belichick/Brady along the way to a title.
is the weakest out of all of the leagues in regards to the salary cap. Too many loopholes and exemptions that tilt the field.
The NFL realized they had a problem in the 80's with superteams being assembled by outspending the competition. They instituted the salary cap. It is a model that had worked, and it is continually tweaked to allow all teams to be competitive if they make the correct moves.
The NBA has put a system in place that was intended to help with parity, but has resulted in the opposite effect because of terrible rules. They know it. We know it. The teams know it. Yet it doesn't change.
I'm with UConn. Parity or not doesn't matter to me. The way things are implemented or play out does.
I find dep's list pretty interesting. Yes, it's probably a foregone conclusion that Dubs will 3-peat, but I find those storylines compelling theater.
Also, how does LBJ do in LA? What does that roster look like? Where's Kawhi going? Is Jimmy Buckets out of MN next summer? How about Celts trading for AD? Is Kyrie interested in the Knicks?
That stuff, & a ton more, makes me love the NBA.
For all the bitching people do about the league, interest is up evidenced by TV ratings.
I try to keep telling myself that this signing could backfire on them. He could fracture the lockeroom, hurt their switching defense and just cause problems. How a talented offensive player who turns it over and doesn't try hard on D is the last type of center the Warriors need.
- ( New Window )
It definitely could - but the Warriors don't need Boogie. He's a luxury. If he starts giving half-assed efforts, he won't play
This is what really sucks. The Warriors have zero at risk here. If he causes any problems they simply cut him and lose nothing. It's not like they are even making a salary cap sacrifice.
But if he comes back strong and is motivated and dominating? This team could win 75+ games if they wanted to and won't be challenged even slightly in the playoffs.
Their 2 biggest challenges the last 2 years ( Cavs, Rockets) have gotten worse while they keep getting better.
For all the bitching people do about the league, interest is up evidenced by TV ratings.
People said the same thing about the NFL for a long time. My own hunch is the same one I had about the NFL - popularity looks massive on the surface but it's a mile wide and an inch deep, driven by extremely casual fans.
LOL, yeah.. I mean.. will Minny take the next step... that's a storyline? They have a zero percent chance of actually challenging the Warriors. I don't find that interesting at all.
but at the same time... some teams are just poorly run
choices teams make dictate their success... not the NBA rules.
its harder to quickly turn around in the nba--- for sure. but all the whining about the league... in particular in the NY area... is because we root for teams that are or were poorly run.
Charlotte languishes in the mediocrity of the NBA. Not because they are poorly run, but because they aren't drawing superstars to pair with Kemba Walker. An aging Dwight Howard didn't cut it. Lance Stephenson didn't cut it. An always injured Micheal Kidd-Gilcrest didn't cut it.
A team can draft fair and have one legitimate star and still be part of the NBA dregs and non-competitive.
LOL, yeah.. I mean.. will Minny take the next step... that's a storyline? They have a zero percent chance of actually challenging the Warriors. I don't find that interesting at all.
Eh, to each their own. I just love basketball. It's my favorite sport after football & doesn't have the moral issue that bothers me, i.e. I'm watching men who might not remember their name in 15 years beat the hell out of each other for my enjoyment.
The popularity NBA seems largely driven by soap opera-ish story lines and rivalries (whether real or imagined) between individual players more than anything else. Now, to be fair, it's always been this way to a much greater degree than other sports. Going back to Magic and Larry, the focus has always been on a few massive stars at the expense of the rest of the league, and given the small team sizes compared with the other three major sports that makes some sense. It still doesn't make for as compelling a product in my opinion.
By just about any definition. Across TV, attendance, whatever. Cherry-picking ABC rating doesn't change that. Not to mention this in an environment of declining TV ratings for almost everything else
LOL, yeah.. I mean.. will Minny take the next step... that's a storyline? They have a zero percent chance of actually challenging the Warriors. I don't find that interesting at all.
I am a basketball nerd. My team is going to suck so I have to watch other things. Phoenix should be a ton of fun to watch now. Minny needs a new coach but they have a ton of talent.
And there are a shitload of talent to watch even though their teams aren’t the warriors.
parity = good, no parity = bad. It’s how said parity is achieved that I have issues with.
I have no problem with the Pats dynasty, for example. I had no problem with GS originally when they hit HRs with Curry, Thompson, and Green. I had no problem with the Spurs success over the past 15/20 years.
Do you have a problem with the Warriors now? If so, when was the tipping point? Should they not have been allowed to sign Durant?
parity = good, no parity = bad. It’s how said parity is achieved that I have issues with.
I have no problem with the Pats dynasty, for example. I had no problem with GS originally when they hit HRs with Curry, Thompson, and Green. I had no problem with the Spurs success over the past 15/20 years.
Do you have a problem with the Warriors now? If so, when was the tipping point? Should they not have been allowed to sign Durant?
I think how easy it was for them to get on the teams want is the sticking point. They don’t sign long term deals anymore. 1-2 years with opt out clauses. It puts the team in huge binds.
parity = good, no parity = bad. It’s how said parity is achieved that I have issues with.
I have no problem with the Pats dynasty, for example. I had no problem with GS originally when they hit HRs with Curry, Thompson, and Green. I had no problem with the Spurs success over the past 15/20 years.
Do you have a problem with the Warriors now? If so, when was the tipping point? Should they not have been allowed to sign Durant?
You know the answer to that question already. I can simultaneously understand why Durant made the move and hate it at the same time. I don’t understand this notion to be all in one either side of this. LeBron and Durant and Leonard can do whatever the hell they want, but that doesn’t mean I have to accept it, like it, and watch the product.
My biggest problem was with Durant. He could have beaten the Warriors with a better individual showing in that conference final, and instead of being more motivated to do it the next year, he joined them and got a nice easy chip.
I'm not asking players to stay on awful teams for a decade just to placate fans or for the sake of competitive fire - but he had Russell Westbrook on his team and that team could have challenged GSW pretty easily the last couple of seasons if he had stayed there and they added a little more depth.
That move tipped the scales so heavily that it's comical now.
Yeah, Houston came close. And James Harden had some horrific shooting performances.
I don't need to see the type of parity we see in the NFL - but I'd like there to be more than 1-2 teams in each conference with any semblance of a chance. I don't think that's unreasonable.
Again, I'm way out of my element, but wasn't there a bunch of friction between him and Westbrook? Couldn't he also have been annoyed that Oklahoma didn't do more to retain Harden, or simply have identified that Golden State is a better organization?
And also, what about the benefit of being able to watch a truly great team? This Warriors team will be remembered forever. Doesn't that matter?
Durant had options and Harden leaving was basically old news by the time he left - that wasn't much of a deciding factor as far as I remember.
He and Russ weren't best buds, but they won a lot of games together and could have beaten Golden State if they gave it another shot. I wanted to see Durant be a competitor and say "I know I can beat those guys and I'm going to work harder than ever this offseason to get back there next year"
He took the easiest way out possible and the last two GS titles felt cheap. If I want to watch that shit, I'll just watch the Globetrotters play the Generals.
It doesn't excite or interest me to watch an all star team just steamroll pretty much everyone else.
Again, I don't need 20 teams to be in the mix or extreme parity. But there should be more than 2 teams in each conference that have more than a complete miracle of a chance at winning a title.
It's a deflating league when fans of like 28 teams already know they have no shot whatsoever come opening night. That sucks and isn't true in any other league but this one.
Again, I'm way out of my element, but wasn't there a bunch of friction between him and Westbrook? Couldn't he also have been annoyed that Oklahoma didn't do more to retain Harden, or simply have identified that Golden State is a better organization?
And also, what about the benefit of being able to watch a truly great team? This Warriors team will be remembered forever. Doesn't that matter?
I'm not as big of an NBA buff as some guys here, so I hope people correct me if I'm wrong, but:
a) I believe a lot of the acrimony between KD and Westbrook was due to the fact he left, and how
b) Harden was not the player he is now at the time he left OKC. I don't think anyone projected him to be someone who would end up being league MVP a few years later
there’s simply too much we don’t know. A fractured relationship is all it takes and in a sport where there’s only 5 players on the court together, having 2 not get along is a huge problem. As much as I hate what Durant did and what Leonard is doing, I have no right to tell them to suck it up and stay.
That said, joining the best team in the league was a bush league move and unfortunately for Durant I get to call him a pussy (I’m sure he doesn’t care). Is watching history happen worth something? To me, no. I get no enjoyment out of watching this GS team, it’s just so damn artificial at this point.
Westbrook could have left OKC too, but he stayed. I know some people don't like him, but that guy wants to compete. I never got the impression that Russ wanted to just join an all star team and get easy rings.
People say this is all LeBron's fault and that he started all of this, but LeBron never would have left Cleveland the first time if he had a player as good as Westbrook there. He left because he spent 7 years there and they continued to pair him with garbage like Larry Hughes and Antawn Jamison.
Durant could have won a chip in OKC and him going to GSW tipped the scales to a laughable degree. I really just think that move was absolutely awful for the NBA. And hey, he has every right to do it. But as a fan, it's my right to call it weak and disagree with it too.
That’s why this signing occurred . I hope he realizes he made a selfish decision that is antithetical to his family’s best interests
How do you know? Maybe among his family's interests are living in the Bay Area. Maybe he's confident that the Warriors' culture (there IS something to it) will help him become a better player in more ways than one, and prepare him for an even better future.
I think I see it the other way. Artificial, to me, would have been putting some mechanism in place to prevent Durant from making the move he wanted to make. Calling him a pussy or lauding him is up to each individual fan to decide at that point.
And if you listen to him on pods/interviews, you can really sense he had no idea what the blowback was going to be. He's really, really sensitive to it.
People say this is all LeBron's fault and that he started all of this, but LeBron never would have left Cleveland the first time if he had a player as good as Westbrook there. He left because he spent 7 years there and they continued to pair him with garbage like Larry Hughes and Antawn Jamison.
Durant could have won a chip in OKC and him going to GSW tipped the scales to a laughable degree. I really just think that move was absolutely awful for the NBA. And hey, he has every right to do it. But as a fan, it's my right to call it weak and disagree with it too.
Lebron did start it. He organized the signings before they were free agents. He could have stayed in Cleveland and easily signed Bosh as well. And again, lebron publicly stated who he wanted to play with. Lebron has controlled the organization before he left for the Heat. Either appease or he leaves. And if the team stinks, he leaves anyways.
The pattern is there, people are starting to see it.
People say this is all LeBron's fault and that he started all of this, but LeBron never would have left Cleveland the first time if he had a player as good as Westbrook there. He left because he spent 7 years there and they continued to pair him with garbage like Larry Hughes and Antawn Jamison.
Durant could have won a chip in OKC and him going to GSW tipped the scales to a laughable degree. I really just think that move was absolutely awful for the NBA. And hey, he has every right to do it. But as a fan, it's my right to call it weak and disagree with it too.
Durant joined the team that came back from a 3-1 deficit against him on OKC. GS had already won a title. A tremendously impactful move which altered the NBA.
Imagine losing a NFC title game to the Eagles, blowing a 14 point 4th quarter lead where Odell drops some crucial passes. He then joins the Eagles. From a competitive standpoint, it’s weak.
RE: RE: Athletes can’t win with some of you fucks. Â
Yeah, I can't think of another pursuit that engenders an indignant sense of entitlement more than sports fandom.
And I get that too. KD was 27 years old. He had lived in OKC for years. Perhaps he wanted to live elsewhere & see a different culture. He also has business interests in Silicon Valley.
I'm all over the map, Haha. I see both sides, though it rubs me that he went to the team he nearly beat to win the West.
I'll be honest... actually I'm kind of over it. For one, I've never been as much of a basketball fan as a football fan. But more importantly, I've discovered that the most gratifying aspect of following sports for me is to watch a terrible team finally emerge into a consistently great one. The Warriors have satisfied that desire more than I could ever hope a team would, but I'd rather the Giants do it. And I've found that once the team is at this level, it's just not as interesting to me anymore.
It's like how I find the origin story to be the best part of any well-done superhero movie.
People say this is all LeBron's fault and that he started all of this, but LeBron never would have left Cleveland the first time if he had a player as good as Westbrook there. He left because he spent 7 years there and they continued to pair him with garbage like Larry Hughes and Antawn Jamison.
Durant could have won a chip in OKC and him going to GSW tipped the scales to a laughable degree. I really just think that move was absolutely awful for the NBA. And hey, he has every right to do it. But as a fan, it's my right to call it weak and disagree with it too.
Lebron did start it. He organized the signings before they were free agents. He could have stayed in Cleveland and easily signed Bosh as well. And again, lebron publicly stated who he wanted to play with. Lebron has controlled the organization before he left for the Heat. Either appease or he leaves. And if the team stinks, he leaves anyways.
The pattern is there, people are starting to see it.
Actually, the 2008 Celtics were before LeBron went to Miami.
And LeBron just went to the Lakers. Who's there? Lonzo Ball, Ingram, Kuzma and Deng? Wow.. what a super team. At least he's trying to beat Golden State instead of find a way to join them.
I don't have to work hard to imagine Beckham dropping crucial passes in a playoff game...
I kid, I kid.
Anyway, in the scenario you painted I think it should still be up to Beckham to do what he wants. If you want to judge him as weak or whatever, that's up to you. But to install something that prohibits him from going to the Eagles would be wrong IMO.
I don't think players should be prohibited from joining certain teams, I just think the CBA sucks and that there are too many loopholes and exceptions.
There should be amore rigid cap structure. It would eliminate a lot of this nonsense.
I think I see it the other way. Artificial, to me, would have been putting some mechanism in place to prevent Durant from making the move he wanted to make. Calling him a pussy or lauding him is up to each individual fan to decide at that point.
I’m not asking for the move to be blocked. I’m asking for a system to be put in place that gives more teams the chance to succeed. I don’t know what the solution is, but the current system isn’t working, it’s pretty awful actually.
r simply have identified that Golden State is a better organization?
I think this aspect of his decision is supremely neglected.
By all accounts, Durant's visit with the Warriors left a hell of an impression. Put yourself in his shoes -- you attend a meeting like that and every instinct is telling you that's where you want to be, and you think you'd decline it out of principle, because you're worried about how you'd be judged?
for exerting as much influence as possible over their careers. In the NBA, the rules are set up so that star players 99.9% of the time sign a second contract with the team that drafted them (it's simply too risky financially not to). Teams are getting 7-8-9 years from these guys before they leave. Isn't that enough? IMO, the whole concept of a "draft" is ridiculous. They should abolish the drafts in all sports and let players go wherever they want. If the teams are forced to operate under a hard salary cap, players will have a big enough financial incentive to seek out the best possible contracts for themselves. Market size, most cases, will not matter.
This is all developing now behind the scenes and look for it to slowly start leaking out to the blogs, talk radio and sports shows. However when it is all said and done I fully expect LeBron to be a Laker but these are the text messages I have just received at 3:30 am that I will try to put in a cogent fashion.
LBJ is really rankled that the Golden State Warriors will be signing DeMarcus Cousins. Especially for only $5 million when he thought Cousins would become a Laker. One of the main reasons they got Rondo was because of how well he meshed with Cousins in one season AND LBJ does not like to play with rookies or young players. This is why he had Wiggins shipped out along with the others before he returned to Cleveland. (Hell, iirc he had about 16 players leave before he agreed to return ??)
Joel Embiid is on his Twitter encouraging LBJ to change his mind like DeAndre Jordan did a few years ago with The Mavericks. For those not aware, Joel is signed with Klutch Sports the agency that LeBron owns.
Sidebar - A few years ago a few owners made a stink about LBJ being able to control players that were signed to an agency he owns because that is against the rules for an active player. LBJ’s name was “removed” from the paperwork but it is still there buried under a ton of paperwork and entities and his childhood friends are the figureheads, I mean the owners. Allegedly. Combine that with the fact that his best friend Chris Paul is the rep for the players so LBJ always knows what is going on in the owners meetings which enfuriates some of the owners even more. This explains why players start popping off about only playing for this or that team when the owners had other moves that they wanted to make.
Joel is not doing this of his own volition. He is being told to do this because if LB did it himself the public outcry would be one that he might not ever overcome. Which is exactly the reason why I firmly feel he will sign on Friday with the Lakers.
However, this is being leaked to put pressure on Rob Pelinka and Magic Johnson. The Lakers were totally content to stand pat and wait for Kawhi to become a free agent next year instead of giving away the farm and let the young core grow a little more this season and see how they meshed with LBJ as the entire league knows no one is catching GSW next year. Only 2/3 other teams can even entertain the thought of upending GSW next year.
Nothing is done at or from Klutch Sports without approval. They are a very tight group and control everything to do with their organization. Hence Joel Embiid’s recent tweets. So do not be surprised if you see a trade being swung before Friday for Kawhi or Anthony Davis which are the names bandied about right now behind the scenes, even at this hour. Look for Anthony Davis name to “come out of nowhere” but a lot of things have been put in place for awhile which is the reason he just bought a house in Harvard Westlake area 2 days ago.
And LeBron just went to the Lakers. Who's there? Lonzo Ball, Ingram, Kuzma and Deng? Wow.. what a super team. At least he's trying to beat Golden State instead of find a way to join them.
By May 2019, when the Warriors tear the Lakers apart in a playoff series, we are going to see people claim that LeBron is not up to par with Jordan and suggest that those players you mentioned are of the same caliber (maybe even better!) than Jordan's supporting cast was. I guaran-damn-tee it.
renegading on the Lakers & signing elsewhere would be LOL. Of course there's no chance of it happening, but I think the Internet would seriously break if it did.
And LeBron just went to the Lakers. Who's there? Lonzo Ball, Ingram, Kuzma and Deng? Wow.. what a super team. At least he's trying to beat Golden State instead of find a way to join them.
I don't know, I bet if the Warriors or Rockets were able to offer LeBron ~$25M he signs with one of them over the Lakers.
Lebron trying to "beat them rather than join them" is a bit of a joke. Â
Rumor has it Lebron reached out to KD to try and get him to the Lakers so he's far from absolved. If the Warriors players were in LA, he'd be joining them with that full LeBron grin.
I don't blame him for trying to recruit solid players - especially when there is so much else to blame him for. It's fun that he's on the Lakers now - a guy I've always detested joins a team I love to hate - perfect combination.
Also, the '08 Celts were built by Danny Ainge, the way it's "supposed" to be - not one of the players. The players forming their own team situation did start with Lebron and Miami.
And LeBron just went to the Lakers. Who's there? Lonzo Ball, Ingram, Kuzma and Deng? Wow.. what a super team. At least he's trying to beat Golden State instead of find a way to join them.
By May 2019, when the Warriors tear the Lakers apart in a playoff series, we are going to see people claim that LeBron is not up to par with Jordan and suggest that those players you mentioned are of the same caliber (maybe even better!) than Jordan's supporting cast was. I guaran-damn-tee it.
Rumor has it Lebron reached out to KD to try and get him to the Lakers so he's far from absolved. If the Warriors players were in LA, he'd be joining them with that full LeBron grin.
I don't blame him for trying to recruit solid players - especially when there is so much else to blame him for. It's fun that he's on the Lakers now - a guy I've always detested joins a team I love to hate - perfect combination.
Also, the '08 Celts were built by Danny Ainge, the way it's "supposed" to be - not one of the players. The players forming their own team situation did start with Lebron and Miami.
LOL. "Rumor has it"... real solid foundation for an argument...
He's not playing with KD and the team he went to doesn't have any other superstars on it right now. So, we can either discuss reality or we can discuss rumors and hypotheticals.
LeBron has spent the majority of his career on teams with crappy supporting casts. The team he carried to the finals this year was absolutely horrid. Durant got there a whopping 1 time before he bolted and that was WITH James Harden and Russell Westbrook.
People talk about LeBron James like he's spent the last 15 years forming super teams.
And LeBron just went to the Lakers. Who's there? Lonzo Ball, Ingram, Kuzma and Deng? Wow.. what a super team. At least he's trying to beat Golden State instead of find a way to join them.
By May 2019, when the Warriors tear the Lakers apart in a playoff series, we are going to see people claim that LeBron is not up to par with Jordan and suggest that those players you mentioned are of the same caliber (maybe even better!) than Jordan's supporting cast was. I guaran-damn-tee it.
Not one person said last years cavs supporting team was better than the bulls supporting cast.
But the notion that lebron has never played with anyone is a damn joke.
Rumor has it Lebron reached out to KD to try and get him to the Lakers so he's far from absolved. If the Warriors players were in LA, he'd be joining them with that full LeBron grin.
I don't blame him for trying to recruit solid players - especially when there is so much else to blame him for. It's fun that he's on the Lakers now - a guy I've always detested joins a team I love to hate - perfect combination.
Also, the '08 Celts were built by Danny Ainge, the way it's "supposed" to be - not one of the players. The players forming their own team situation did start with Lebron and Miami.
LOL. "Rumor has it"... real solid foundation for an argument...
He's not playing with KD and the team he went to doesn't have any other superstars on it right now. So, we can either discuss reality or we can discuss rumors and hypotheticals.
LeBron has spent the majority of his career on teams with crappy supporting casts. The team he carried to the finals this year was absolutely horrid. Durant got there a whopping 1 time before he bolted and that was WITH James Harden and Russell Westbrook.
People talk about LeBron James like he's spent the last 15 years forming super teams.
Sorry, should maybe have said it was reported - look up Lebron contacts KD if you'd like the articles - they were out there. This isn't something I made up. Maybe the reporters did, but why would you doubt the concept? KD was a free agent after opting out. We know LeBron tries to team up with whatever talent is available. Certainly makes sense to me - you think it's more plausible he didn't try to team up with KD?
Also, you really think he would have turned down joining a team with KD, Curry, and the rest? That's a joke - if it were possible, he'd have done it. He'd welcome them to LA right now with open arms - why wouldn't he...because he'd rather beat them then join them - hilarious.
And if Lebron has spent the majority of his career with bad supporting casts - then blame Lebron. He is quite often the one pulling the strings. I'm not going to defend what KD did, but trying to defend James's actions is a tough stake to claim. I'm glad his flopping and whining to the refs will be in the West now...they can have him.
RE: No, the '08 Celtics were built by Kevin McHale Â
That was only one piece. Ainge orchestrated it from the Celts side. And even using the McHale perspective - it was a GM and not one of the players involved, which was the bigger point vs. Lebron's Miami orchestration.
Whatever happened to competitive balance? Is there anything more important for a commissioner to protect? When great players start to essentially play for way less than what they are worth because of destination the commissioner has to step in. Someone needs to remind Mr. Silver that it isn't a sport if we know who the champion is before they roll the balls out.
You are a fan of all the major sports. What is your preferred structure:
NBA- soft cap but impossible to have a quick turn around
NFL- can go from worst to First with good drafting/shrewd moves. But, a hard cap makes sustainability difficult.
NHL- not entirely sure of the cap in the NHL, but there seems to be a lot of parity.
MLB- no cap.
Every system has its flaws - I think the players have way too much power in baseball. Fully gtd. contracts, money that is completely absurd and keeps getting even crazier, etc. Teams are placing more value now on international scouting and signing IFA's - there's a ton of talent coming from kids over there. Teams are placing a premium on young talent now probably more than ever - a lot of the teams spending big money on FA's are regretting those contracts.
My issue with the NFL deals is the opposite. Players don't have enough power there and in a sport where you can literally get killed on the field, I think it's absurd how little some of these guys can actually make relative to their contract numbers - especially compared to what baseball and basketball players get.
The NBA just feels like a fucking free-for-all with mid-level exceptions, Bird Rights, "SUPERMAN" contracts, max contracts, supermax contracts, etc - this is all complete overkill and there are way, way too many exceptions and bullshit things that create loopholes. Trying to read through the NBA CBA is like reading War and Peace. There needs to be a more rigid cap structure.
I actually like the NHL structure. Aside from the fact that I don't think players are fairly compensated (the best of the best players get like ~10M per year which is nowhere near what they're getting in other sports) but I think the NHL structure actually works pretty well and keeps a good competitive balance across the league. The cap has continued to rise each year, which is good. It's not a perfect structure, but I think the playing field is pretty level and there's really no way to manipulate the cap to ice some ridiculously unfair team.
The best way to build a sustainable contender in the NHL is really to draft well, have a solid pipeline of young talent and make smart vet signings to supplement it.
So, while I don't think any system is perfect, I actually think the NHL's structure provides the best competitive balance overall.
The SCF this past year was sort of a microcosm of why I like the league even though I was really against seeing Vegas win as an expansion team in year one. The NHL did a bad job with that, the team shouldnt have been that good in year one. But beyond that, you had a team with an elite superstar player in Ovechkin going against the Golden Knights - it was sort of like extremes in opposite directions, but that's what I like about the NHL. The best players often win, but they also lose and it is absolutely not a foregone conclusion whatsoever that any one team will get to the Finals. It's hard to even predict right before the playoffs start.
I know most NBA fans generally don't like hockey - but that's just my 0.02.
Whatever happened to competitive balance? Is there anything more important for a commissioner to protect? When great players start to essentially play for way less than what they are worth because of destination the commissioner has to step in. Someone needs to remind Mr. Silver that it isn't a sport if we know who the champion is before they roll the balls out.
Adam Silver is probably the best commissioner in sports. He’s already said it’s a problem and is looking for ways to fix it. He can’t just eradicate the CBA, this won’t change over night. You are mad at the wrong person.
Demarcus Cousins reportedly gave the Lakers a chance to sign him at the mid-level exception before the Warriors, but they said no, per @TheSteinLine.
Cousins is a known pain and is coming off a major injury. Everyone is wrapped up in the name and the obsession with the Warriors. The market pretty clearly spoke -- he's a prove it type player as of now. The Warriors didn't sprinkle "screw the league" fairy dust, they are taking a risk on a risky situation because they can.
I've never seen more "holier than though" hypocritical fans in my life.
The purpose of sports is to win. I'd an athlete wants to take less money, rehabilitate his image and win a championship... Good on him. Why should he take a deal on a shitty team... Because you think he should?
The competitive balance is alive and well in the NBA (except for Golden State). There are tons of good teams in the NBA. The Rockets should have won the series with GSW. The cap is one of the better salary caps in all of sports... And it's the most player friendly. The reason that some people perceive theiir not being a competitive balance... Is because NBA teams over pay for average players and are in salary cap jail. Just like my Miami Heat. Overpayed Whiteside's subpar ass... Now they can't sign anyone.
To be the man... You have beat the man. And all other teams haven't figured it out how to beat GSW yet. It's okay. One day they will. Enjoy watching a real dynasty before your eyes.
brutal post by someone who seems holier than thou...interesting.
And no there isn’t a competitive balance. Take away GS and all it’s players and it’s still down to 2 or 3 teams only. If it enjoy the nba in its current form that’s great, but it’s hilarious that you can’t fathtom my many people don’t share your views.
in the AFC is worse than the NBA. The Patriots have been to 10 Super Bowls in 16 years and I can't remember the last time they Didn't win their division. How about baseball? Where either you pay to win... Or you tank to win. Yeah. That's really competitive.
10 out of 15 teams in the west had a winning record. The league is littered with superstars. Outside of GSW... The NBA is very competitive.
All Star team in Golden State, there would be a lot of intrigue going into the season. Houston won the West last year, but would it really be that much of a stretch to see Chris Paul break down or just decline a bit and have either Utah, Lebron and the Lakers, Portland, or Oklahoma City finish ahead of them? Even beyond them, could this be the year the Timberwolves make a leap (maybe not with all of the Butler drama) or Jokic and the Nuggets?
Then you have the wide open East, yeah Boston and Philly are probably the early favorites, but how does Toronto look now with the coaching change. Could the Wizards finally live up to their potential or does Milwaukee now that they have a real coach?
All of these are just meaningless side stories now because unless something ridiculous happens, like Curry and Thompson blowing their knees out, the Warriors are going to win their 3rd straight title and 4th in 5 years.
The NBA really needs to hope that Durant is satisfied with that, and looks for a new challenge after this season. There has been a lot of talk from multiple guys that follow the league about a Knicks/Durant union, the NBA has to be just salivating at that possibility. Talk about competitive balance, you would have legit contenders in New York, Boston, Philly, Golden State, LA, and Houston, some of the biggest markets in the country.
in the AFC is worse than the NBA. The Patriots have been to 10 Super Bowls in 16 years and I can't remember the last time they Didn't win their division. How about baseball? Where either you pay to win... Or you tank to win. Yeah. That's really competitive.
10 out of 15 teams in the west had a winning record. The league is littered with superstars. Outside of GSW... The NBA is very competitive.
You may want to do some research on baseball and how many different teams have won a World Series in the past couple of decades...
there is a problem with competitive balance in the NBA?
Nah. He's defended it. More times than once. Link - ( New Window )
Not quite...he certainly recognizes it’s an issue in a much more recent article from a couple of days ago with a Golden State beat writer. Don’t know how to link the article from my phone but a simple google search will bring it up.
in the AFC is worse than the NBA. The Patriots have been to 10 Super Bowls in 16 years and I can't remember the last time they Didn't win their division. How about baseball? Where either you pay to win... Or you tank to win. Yeah. That's really competitive.
10 out of 15 teams in the west had a winning record. The league is littered with superstars. Outside of GSW... The NBA is very competitive.
You may want to do some research on baseball and how many different teams have won a World Series in the past couple of decades...
In the last 10 years alone, 8 different teams have won the World Series. The National League has had 6 different teams represent them in the Series, the AL has had 8. I don't know how that could be considered non-competitive.
Again, the Patriots are an anomaly. What they've done has never been done before and will never be done again. It's not a result of structural issues with the league whatsoever. They wound up with the best HC/QB combo in the history of the sport. How often do you think that's going to happen in the future?
If you really believe the NFL has a competitive balance issue but think it's "good" in the NBA, I don't know what to tell you other than that your opinion is absolutely absurd.
I was making a comparison. The AFC (which blows) and the NBA Â
The NBA has always had dynasties. Celtics, Bulls, Lakers, Warriors ect. I think it's absurd to admonish these players and teams for trying to win.
My point with baseball was... The teams that win either pay or they tank. Astros, Cubs and Royals all tanked for 4-7 years before they had their 1-2 seasons. Royals are back to tanking. That's not "competitive". I think 8 teams are tanking this year? That's a quarter of the league. How is that competitive?
RE: I was making a comparison. The AFC (which blows) and the NBA Â
The NBA has always had dynasties. Celtics, Bulls, Lakers, Warriors ect. I think it's absurd to admonish these players and teams for trying to win.
My point with baseball was... The teams that win either pay or they tank. Astros, Cubs and Royals all tanked for 4-7 years before they had their 1-2 seasons. Royals are back to tanking. That's not "competitive". I think 8 teams are tanking this year? That's a quarter of the league. How is that competitive?
If your goal is to have zero bad teams, that is never going to happen. Regardless of what the system is, there will always be good teams and bad, the idea of parity is that it is not the same teams every year. I also don't really know what your example is trying to prove. You're saying there are two ways to win in baseball, either spend money or build through the farm and take your lumps while the young guys develop. Well yeah, what other alternative would there be, how is that a bad thing?
People are getting too caught up with the decisions made by the player Â
and not giving enough credit to the organization itself. The Warriors essentially built a championship team from scratch - mostly with drafted players, acquisitions of role players who fit the scheme, and of course the right head coach. And that's how they attracted the big name talents.
The competitive balance in the NBA will fix itself once other franchises figure out how to duplicate that process and build their own teams organically. At this point that may take a while, but we gotta stop faulting players who just want to go somewhere that gives them a chance of winning.
The NFL is a great example because it used to be like this - unbalanced and no parity. It's not like that anymore. On a regular basis teams go from being on the bottom of their division to rising to the top. The Patriots' dominance is the exception, but that's more of a credit to the historic level of greatness of Bill Belichick and Tom Brady than it is an indictment of the NFL or AFC.
RE: I was making a comparison. The AFC (which blows) and the NBA Â
The NBA has always had dynasties. Celtics, Bulls, Lakers, Warriors ect. I think it's absurd to admonish these players and teams for trying to win.
My point with baseball was... The teams that win either pay or they tank. Astros, Cubs and Royals all tanked for 4-7 years before they had their 1-2 seasons. Royals are back to tanking. That's not "competitive". I think 8 teams are tanking this year? That's a quarter of the league. How is that competitive?
So, you're arguing that baseball is not competitive because teams like the Royals are taking - but think the competitive balance in the NBA is fine and dandy despite the fact that tanking is probably MOST prevalent in basketball and has even been acknowledged as an issue by the commissioner.
And a lot of those teams aren't "tanking," they just suck. Are there not going to be bad teams in a 30 team league? I don't really understand what you're looking for. A league of 30 teams hovering around .500?
Tanking in baseball isn't quite as rewarding as it is in the NBA, either. The draft and team structures are very different.
Getting a LeBron James automatically makes you a contender. The Nationals still haven't won a playoff series despite having Harper, Strasburg and then signing the best pitcher in the NL in Scherzer. There's quite a difference.
the nba is competitive. Taking GS out of it you have Houston, OKC since Paul is staying, Boston, Philly and the Lakers. Over 3/4 of the league literally has a 0% chance at a title...0%.
most of he league won’t be able to piece together a good team under the current rules so these same teams will likely be the same over the next few years (give/take a team or two when the stars jump ship to a new city).
RE: I’m still trying to figure out how you think Â
the nba is competitive. Taking GS out of it you have Houston, OKC since Paul is staying, Boston, Philly and the Lakers. Over 3/4 of the league literally has a 0% chance at a title...0%.
Are we watching the same thing?
6 teams that have an actual shot at the title. That's not new for the NBA.
On the other hand, a league where the bottom 1/2 has a shot at the title would not be a product I'd be interested in watching if it means some kind of artificial even distribution of talent.
The ratings say otherwise but the season length and playoff format are a bore to me. I don't know how you fix that without taking games away from the revenue stream to boost the stakes.
it’s 2018, which is what matters. And I was being kind in my previous post as I really only think 3 teams have a shot, but I added a few others who will be in the mix but ultimately will fall short. In reality it’s about a 4 team league.
the AFC has rotated out more than half of their playoff teams 5 times just in this decade.
Heck, last year you had the Jags, Titans and Bills making the playoffs. Since 2010, Every team but the Browns has made the playoffs.
If a poster is going to call people "holier than thou", it is usually fucking nice if they at least present an opinion that has some strong facts to back it up.
Out of all the sports, the NFL has the most turnover in playoff teams - the AFC too.
the AFC has rotated out more than half of their playoff teams 5 times just in this decade.
Heck, last year you had the Jags, Titans and Bills making the playoffs. Since 2010, Every team but the Browns has made the playoffs.
If a poster is going to call people "holier than thou", it is usually fucking nice if they at least present an opinion that has some strong facts to back it up.
Out of all the sports, the NFL has the most turnover in playoff teams - the AFC too.
Every team in the NBA has made the playoffs in the past 6 years except Sacramento and Phoenix . 28 out of 30 teams. What the fuck is your point
is 16 teams, 12 or 13 of which have a 0% chance of winning a title. In the NFL we see wild card teams winning the SB, how the fuck is this even comparable?
The infallibility of the Warriors is a little inflated. They will rely on a declining Iguodala going into his 15th year in the league, Cousins coming off a major injury and potentially not available until January, Curry showing injury vulnerability, and Durant missing a chunk of time for the 3rd out of 4th year.
They are still far and away the most talented, and arguably well coached team in the NBA. But they also got pushed to the max by Houston, and who knows what happens if Paul plays game 7.
It's not like they signed LeBron James. They signed Cousins, who from his own lips was not garnering a ton of interest because of his injury.
The Rockets, Celtics, Lakers, 6ers all have the athletes to push the Warriors.
Warriors also dealt with an injured Curry and Iggy Â
He could have gotten a max contract literally anywhere with the cap room. No question about that.
I... I dunno about this.
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. What is this for the MLE? How much money did he leave on the table? At least $15 million this year. Insane.
He could have gotten a max contract literally anywhere with the cap room. No question about that.
problem is not a lot of teams with cap room
I agree. 100%
Warriors: hold my beer
Klay Thompson
Kevin Durant
Draymond Green
Demarcus Cousins
That...is insane.
- He won't be back until January (maybe).
- He's lazy and selfish.
- The Pelicans were actually better with him on the bench than on the floor.
- He won't be back until January (maybe).
- He's lazy and selfish.
- The Pelicans were actually better with him on the bench than on the floor.
It's less about that and more the fact that this player is taking a deal like this to ring chase in his 20's. It's completely ridiculous.
Of course they don't need him. But it's just silly.
- He's lazy and selfish.
25, 12, and 5 assists with almost 2 blocks a game and he's added the threat of a 3 pt shot.
Sign me up for this version of "selfish".
This is stupid.
- He won't be back until January (maybe).
- He's lazy and selfish.
- The Pelicans were actually better with him on the bench than on the floor.
Coming off an injury to a team that will be in zero rush for him to play.
He will not be lazy and selfish on that team i can guarantee you that.
This is stupid.
Because he can easily get hurt again. Passing up X (let's say somewhere between 20 and 120 million) for 5 million is a risk for a guy coming off a serious injury, especially a man his size.
Ha. They won't even make it to the finals. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. He's lucky they don't care about PEDs in the NBA Id love to know what his test and HGH levels really are. Not as much of a dirt bag as Jordan
But Michael was able to hide his bad character traits a lot better
LeBron can rot away at his early retirement home in La, never sniffing another finals again.
The goalpost on that is constantly moving.
Fans want unselfish players. Player takes less money to win, it gets dismissed as ring chasing or taking the easy path.
The only way that seems to be acceptable to fans is to struggle and languish in hell with the team that drafted you and hopefully win one when you're 35 and on creaky knees.
Exactly. An athlete leaving massive money on the board so he has a chance to win. That’s a negative?
They don’t need him at all so if he isn’t ready until January than so be it. How is it overreacting, if he comes back to 100% it’s a massive massive steal.
The only way that seems to be acceptable to fans is to struggle and languish in hell with the team that drafted you and hopefully win one when you're 35 and on creaky knees.
Sacramento might be worse than hell.
I'd like to see a competitive league. Not a league where you know who the champion is before a single game is played.
Did anyone know the Eagles would win the Super Bowl before last season started or even be there at all?
Did anyone know the Caps would finally get over the hump and win the Cup? Did anyone know they'd be against VEGAS?!
How many people had Houston winning the World Series last year? That was absolutely not a foregone conclusion and they easily could have lost to the Yanks in that Game 7.
I personally don't find any enjoyment in this and I can't imagine anyone outside of Warriors fans does either with some very small exceptions.
Exactly. Smart deal by Cousins to re-establish himself on a winner. He’ll get his payday later.
People are acting like this is pre injury Boogie.
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. What is this for the MLE? How much money did he leave on the table? At least $15 million this year. Insane.
He could have gotten a max contract literally anywhere with the cap room. No question about that.
what teams were lining up to pay him the max? It was reported in a couple of spots (Zach Lowe among others) that Dallas was really the only team with the cap space and looking to contend next season that would have interest in him on a big deal. And from the looks of it, they may have had their eye on DJ as their first choice.
- He won't be back until January (maybe).
- He's lazy and selfish.
- The Pelicans were actually better with him on the bench than on the floor.
You can downplay it any way you want but:
He’s an upgrade over Javale McGee
The Warriors don’t need him
This move keeps him from a competitor
The Warriors starting five is essentially an all-star team. Ditto the others who said the NBA is a joke.
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- He's coming off a serious injury.
- He won't be back until January (maybe).
- He's lazy and selfish.
- The Pelicans were actually better with him on the bench than on the floor.
It's less about that and more the fact that this player is taking a deal like this to ring chase in his 20's. It's completely ridiculous.
Of course they don't need him. But it's just silly.
I agree, but it shouldn't be a surprising outcome. The narrative these days is "Player X can't be considered an elite player because he has 0 rings," or even, "Kobe is better than LeBron because LeBron only has three rings."
People are acting like this is pre injury Boogie.
He could be 50% of what he was and they still win the Finals again easy.
I’m not faulting him for this, his market wasn’t strong and he surrounds himself with a bunch of stars to win a ring and get a max contract next year. It’s a win win for him and the Warriors. It’s just a loss for the rest of the league and all of its fans lol.
I'd like to see a competitive league. Not a league where you know who the champion is before a single game is played.
Did anyone know the Eagles would win the Super Bowl before last season started or even be there at all?
Did anyone know the Caps would finally get over the hump and win the Cup? Did anyone know they'd be against VEGAS?!
How many people had Houston winning the World Series last year? That was absolutely not a foregone conclusion and they easily could have lost to the Yanks in that Game 7.
I personally don't find any enjoyment in this and I can't imagine anyone outside of Warriors fans does either with some very small exceptions.
Plus a million.
It is funny hearing people say it's a "problem" that players are willing to leave millions on the table to win. It's a free market. How do you stop people willing to take that much less to join a team aside from the NBA assigning teams every year. You can't and shouldn't.
I'd like to see a competitive league. Not a league where you know who the champion is before a single game is played.
well Houston took a big swing at it...and nearly pulled off the upset. But this isn't really a new thing in the NBA. Once in a while you get teams making an unexpected run to the finals...and there's been very few "surprise" champions.
Best way to upend things would be throwing out the whole cap system and salary limits and going with an NFL style hard cap without any exceptions. Stars would most likely be more evenly dispersed throughout the league.
Ok, since I deserve the number 1 spot on the BBI douche list. Ill go out and say this...
Kawahi, Durant, and Boogie could all be FA's next year.
Kawahi has expressed playing in LA.
Magic spoke to cousins already.
Durant has been texting with Lebron.
LA has taken a ton fo 1 year deals.
LA has expressed interest in trading all of their young players.
Let the conspiracies begin.
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How about someone in this league tries to BEAT the Warriors instead of everyone joining them instead?
I'd like to see a competitive league. Not a league where you know who the champion is before a single game is played.
well Houston took a big swing at it...and nearly pulled off the upset. But this isn't really a new thing in the NBA. Once in a while you get teams making an unexpected run to the finals...and there's been very few "surprise" champions.
Best way to upend things would be throwing out the whole cap system and salary limits and going with an NFL style hard cap without any exceptions. Stars would most likely be more evenly dispersed throughout the league.
Yeah, it's a structural issue - I don't blame the players, they're doing what's within their rights.
I just personally think it makes for a ridiculously unexciting product. Most of us are Knicks fans - we know we're going to suck next year. It is what it is. But I'd like to see there be a few teams that actually have a real chance at beating the Warriors.
Granted, Houston almost did it. Maybe if CP3 didn't get hurt they would have.
I just couldn't stand that Durant joined that team when he was so close to beating them. I wanted to see KD say "game 6 was on me, I choked - but I want to take another swing at it and beat those guys"
I personally just feel like all of this sucks for the league. But I guess this is still enjoyable for more people than I thought.
But ask yourself how you would feel if the Giants suddenly turned into what is widely considered to be the best run team in all of sports, with a outstanding, supportive culture that players claim is incredibly unique, and then won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and players like Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey chose to sign with them as a result.
Yeah, you'd probably kind of think of it's cheating too.
But ask yourself how you would feel if the Giants suddenly turned into what is widely considered to be the best run team in all of sports, with a outstanding, supportive culture that players claim is incredibly unique, and then won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and players like Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey chose to sign with them as a result.
Yeah, you'd probably kind of think of it's cheating too.
Listen I know we go back and forth, but I rather GS win it every year as long as they stay true to the unselfish basketball they play. I hate the game of ISO, and hate when Durant does it. When GS moves the ball, their brand of basketball is fun to watch.
I wouldnt mind a team like Minny, Denver, SA challenging them and taking them down (they arent) but I rather them than the ISO play of Westbrook, Harden/Paul, James.
But ask yourself how you would feel if the Giants suddenly turned into what is widely considered to be the best run team in all of sports, with a outstanding, supportive culture that players claim is incredibly unique, and then won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and players like Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey chose to sign with them as a result.
Yeah, you'd probably kind of think of it's cheating too.
The cap structure in the NFL wouldn't allow for it, though - there are so many more players that are vital to a teams success. In the NBA, one LeBron James gets you to the Finals with 1 decent player and 3 janitors.
You need WAY more than one elite player in the NFL. Way more. We've seen it with Odell. He's one of the absolute best players in the league and we've still had crap years with him here because so many other parts of the team were trash.
Sure, if the league were structured in such a way where a team could manage something like this and it was the Giants winning every single year I'd enjoy it - but I certainly wouldn't argue with people who said it was terrible for the rest of the league or made it much less enjoyable for them.
The NBA bargaining agreement was under Stern I believe. Silver hates super teams. Hope he makes massive changes soon.
GET A FUCKING HARD CAP. And get rid of all the mid-level exceptions. Rise the salary cap if you have too.
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that the narrative is that Adam Silver is an incredible commissioner who is never criticized. Maybe the rose is finally off the bloom for him.
The NBA bargaining agreement was under Stern I believe. Silver hates super teams. Hope he makes massive changes soon.
GET A FUCKING HARD CAP. And get rid of all the mid-level exceptions. Rise the salary cap if you have too.
This is what I always say. Enough with all of the fucking exceptions, loopholes, and bullshit. Create a hard cap. If it has to be a little higher, so be it.
I know a lot of people here aren't hockey fans, but I think the cap structure in the NHL is much fairer and makes much more sense. You can't really do this shit in the NHL. You can pay 2-3 guys 10M a year, but then the rest of your team is going to be full of JAG's and bottom 6 players.
The CBA in this league is completely ridiculous and way, way too complicated which creates all of this nonsense.
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Something between the NBA and the NFL system I suppose. I admit this kind of feels like cheating now.
But ask yourself how you would feel if the Giants suddenly turned into what is widely considered to be the best run team in all of sports, with a outstanding, supportive culture that players claim is incredibly unique, and then won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and players like Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey chose to sign with them as a result.
Yeah, you'd probably kind of think of it's cheating too.
Listen I know we go back and forth, but I rather GS win it every year as long as they stay true to the unselfish basketball they play. I hate the game of ISO, and hate when Durant does it. When GS moves the ball, their brand of basketball is fun to watch.
I wouldnt mind a team like Minny, Denver, SA challenging them and taking them down (they arent) but I rather them than the ISO play of Westbrook, Harden/Paul, James.
Not sure how to reconcile this take and your ranting in the Lebron thread.
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Something between the NBA and the NFL system I suppose. I admit this kind of feels like cheating now.
But ask yourself how you would feel if the Giants suddenly turned into what is widely considered to be the best run team in all of sports, with a outstanding, supportive culture that players claim is incredibly unique, and then won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and players like Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey chose to sign with them as a result.
Yeah, you'd probably kind of think of it's cheating too.
The cap structure in the NFL wouldn't allow for it, though - there are so many more players that are vital to a teams success. In the NBA, one LeBron James gets you to the Finals with 1 decent player and 3 janitors.
You need WAY more than one elite player in the NFL. Way more. We've seen it with Odell. He's one of the absolute best players in the league and we've still had crap years with him here because so many other parts of the team were trash.
Sure, if the league were structured in such a way where a team could manage something like this and it was the Giants winning every single year I'd enjoy it - but I certainly wouldn't argue with people who said it was terrible for the rest of the league or made it much less enjoyable for them.
It would be near impossible to form a super team in the NFL even if 6 or 7 elite guys agreed to join a team:
— all of their existing contracts would have to expire at or around the same time
— there would still be the threat of the various tags
— they would all have to be/stay healthy
— they’d all have to take absurdly low deals
— given the length of NFL careers, they’d all seriously jeopardize their future career earnings by either taking severely discounted long term deals or super cheap short deals w the risk of injury
I could see this move, actually, being a long term strategy too. Cousins is a vastly more talented player than DGreen. So maybe the Warriors are looking at this as an eventual investment to replace Green.
You have to put yourself in their shoes. If you have the opportunity to thrust yourself into the middle of the league’s power struggle wouldn’t you consider it? Should these guys really waste away in situations where they will never, ever win a title (Sacramento or New Orleans for Boogie) out of loyalty or pride or whatever?
The league incentivizes them to do that, but there’s no much you can do if a player is willing to take less.
People killed Durant and to an extent I think it’s funny but if I am being honest I would have done the exact same thing as him. Have any of you guys been to Oklahoma City? It’s pretty bleak. Given the option of staying there or moving to the Bay Area to play for a great team with a guy like Kerr in charge I would not have to think very long about my decision.
Maybe it’s easier for me to accept all of this because I am a Knicks fan and I have not really felt like the Knicks were actually truly involved in the league for about 20 years now. My relationship to the rest of the NBA is basically sitting and watching it all unfold and kind of enjoying the spectacle, all the time knowing that my favorite team is of no concern to anyone and will probably not ever win anything.
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In comment 14005112 santacruzom said:
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Something between the NBA and the NFL system I suppose. I admit this kind of feels like cheating now.
But ask yourself how you would feel if the Giants suddenly turned into what is widely considered to be the best run team in all of sports, with a outstanding, supportive culture that players claim is incredibly unique, and then won 3 of 4 Super Bowls, and players like Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey chose to sign with them as a result.
Yeah, you'd probably kind of think of it's cheating too.
The cap structure in the NFL wouldn't allow for it, though - there are so many more players that are vital to a teams success. In the NBA, one LeBron James gets you to the Finals with 1 decent player and 3 janitors.
You need WAY more than one elite player in the NFL. Way more. We've seen it with Odell. He's one of the absolute best players in the league and we've still had crap years with him here because so many other parts of the team were trash.
Sure, if the league were structured in such a way where a team could manage something like this and it was the Giants winning every single year I'd enjoy it - but I certainly wouldn't argue with people who said it was terrible for the rest of the league or made it much less enjoyable for them.
It would be near impossible to form a super team in the NFL even if 6 or 7 elite guys agreed to join a team:
— all of their existing contracts would have to expire at or around the same time
— there would still be the threat of the various tags
— they would all have to be/stay healthy
— they’d all have to take absurdly low deals
— given the length of NFL careers, they’d all seriously jeopardize their future career earnings by either taking severely discounted long term deals or super cheap short deals w the risk of injury
Yep - too many pieces, it just can't happen.
And teams who tried to do shit like that with older players didn't pan out - like the 2000 Redskins or the 2011 Eagles.
Funny enough, we were the ones who wound up winning the division and going to the SB both of those years.
But yeah - even if Pat Peterson, Jalen Ramsey, Von Miller, Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack and a bunch of other guys wanted to play together, the money would never work and the union would never allow for them to take the types of paycuts they'd have to take for something like that to happen.
The NBA feels like a playground where there's no actual authority and players just do whatever they want and go wherever they want.
Agreed. I dont get it. How is this exciting seeing 4 teams dominate the entire league while you have the rest of league have absolutely ZERO chance at making a run at a title. I just dont understand it at all.
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Why is "ring chasing" a negative? I thought we respected athletes that want to win titles.
It is funny hearing people say it's a "problem" that players are willing to leave millions on the table to win. It's a free market. How do you stop people willing to take that much less to join a team aside from the NBA assigning teams every year. You can't and shouldn't.
Yeah I fail to see the problem as well. Is it really better to artificially spread resources out evenly and create market forces to try to push teams into the middle of the pack? That's what the NFL does now, and the result is a fairly shitty product where success is as predicated on injury luck as much as anything else. Why not just watch a roulette wheel?
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In comment 14005070 Go Terps said:
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Why is "ring chasing" a negative? I thought we respected athletes that want to win titles.
It is funny hearing people say it's a "problem" that players are willing to leave millions on the table to win. It's a free market. How do you stop people willing to take that much less to join a team aside from the NBA assigning teams every year. You can't and shouldn't.
Yeah I fail to see the problem as well. Is it really better to artificially spread resources out evenly and create market forces to try to push teams into the middle of the pack? That's what the NFL does now, and the result is a fairly shitty product where success is as predicated on injury luck as much as anything else. Why not just watch a roulette wheel?
Problem is top tier teams are very, very good. The bottom teams are unwatchable.
LA, Houston, GS, Philly, and Boston.
But there are some other things to watch:
What happens in Minny? Will they take the next step?
Can Denver be the most fun team in the league?
How far does the Greek Greak/AD take their teams?
Speaking of AD, does he look at Boston and say thats my path?
Phoenix should be a ton of fun to watch this year.
There needs to be a balance. I don't have a problem with dynasties but this is absurd. There needs to be some kind of competitive balance.
Basketball is at least 75% your top tier talent and there are only five guys in the floor.
Honestly I think basketball works better with a handful of truly great teams. You just have to hope your team is one of them. Although I find it pretty easy to follow the Knicks and also stay interested in the top of the league. As I said before I think it’s easier because the Knicks are never actually in the mix.
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In comment 14005070 Go Terps said:
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Why is "ring chasing" a negative? I thought we respected athletes that want to win titles.
It is funny hearing people say it's a "problem" that players are willing to leave millions on the table to win. It's a free market. How do you stop people willing to take that much less to join a team aside from the NBA assigning teams every year. You can't and shouldn't.
Yeah I fail to see the problem as well. Is it really better to artificially spread resources out evenly and create market forces to try to push teams into the middle of the pack? That's what the NFL does now, and the result is a fairly shitty product where success is as predicated on injury luck as much as anything else. Why not just watch a roulette wheel?
That’s a gross oversimplification of the NFL. Teams can dramatically change their fortune through the draft where stars can be found in any round and even after the draft. In the NBA a lottery pick may not even yield an above average starter. NFL teams have to be much more strategic about FA and contracts.
NFL is chess and the NBA is checkers from a team building perspective. At this point you’re essentially in one of two boats in the NBA — tanking for lottery picks in the hope you’ll land the next elite player or whoring yourself out for elite FAs.
+1. I know two people who only root the team lebron is on. Fucking ridiculous.
The sport Sucks----as a League. The Regular Season is a complete drag. The Playoffs are basically like World Cup---Great Stars and very competitive and intense.
In comment 14005082 arcarsenal said:
I'd like to see a competitive league. Not a league where you know who the champion is before a single game is played.
Did anyone know the Eagles would win the Super Bowl before last season started or even be there at all?
Did anyone know the Caps would finally get over the hump and win the Cup? Did anyone know they'd be against VEGAS?!
How many people had Houston winning the World Series last year? That was absolutely not a foregone conclusion and they easily could have lost to the Yanks in that Game 7.
I personally don't find any enjoyment in this and I can't imagine anyone outside of Warriors fans does either with some very small exceptions.
And I don’t really care what the players are entitled to do. Sure, one fan’s sentiment matters little to them, but without us fans they are not making millions to play a game.
Talent overcomes front offices in the NBA. I think a lot of teams in the NBA are more unlucky than poorly run. Generational players are very few in the NBA. And when they join together, there is only so much you can do. FO's are at the mercy of their best players.
I look at a team like Denver and Utah who are extremely well run right now, and they dont have snowsball chance in hell at winning because no one wants to go there.
Forget KL. Make a move for Anthony Davis.
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The Celtics should make a move for Leornard right now. They have the ammo, and that would be an epic matchup in the finals.
Forget KL. Make a move for Anthony Davis.
They have the pieces to get either. I mean they have 4 first round picks next year. Somethings gotta give....
Enes Kanter’s response to this via tweet - ( New Window )
It makes sense in that the league's business is entertainment, not the purity of sport. If the league has a team destined to win the title year after year, what incentive is there for fans of other teams to buy tickets or merchandise? Why does anyone go to a Knicks game?
Getting fans invested in the product should be the goal. How does having 27 teams eliminated from contention on opening day do that? The NBA is making money but for how long if this continues?
and there's plenty more where that came from
There needs to be a balance. I don't have a problem with dynasties but this is absurd. There needs to be some kind of competitive balance.
The 2011 Giants probably don't win the Super Bowl if they have to win four best-out-of-seven playoff series. That's why single elimination playoffs will always be more exciting. Anything can happen. But it will never happen in the NBA.
The Warriors are a great team that has marked an era. Though to be fair are attention spans so short that a team winning 3 out of 4 is a problem?
Funny how that works right? Go after the money you’re greedy. Go after the situation or glory of winning and you’re a ring chaser.
The nba is a joke during the months of January through april or so. The rest of the time it’s fine.
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Why is "ring chasing" a negative? I thought we respected athletes that want to win titles.
Funny how that works right? Go after the money you’re greedy. Go after the situation or glory of winning and you’re a ring chaser.
The nba is a joke during the months of January through april or so. The rest of the time it’s fine.
Athletes have to win titles for the team that drafted them, preferably for less money than the market dictates. And definitely not win too often. That's very important too.
If you are a prominent player, even coming off a serious injury, how can joining a team who already won and is in one of the most dominant runs in league history be good for your reputation/legacy and for the health of a competitive sports league?
You can argue that he owes the fans nothing, but you can’t argue that this is good for the league. How much more compelling next year would be had he signed for MLE with the Rockets, Celtics, Spurs or even the Lakers?
If you are a prominent player, even coming off a serious injury, how can joining a team who already won and is in one of the most dominant runs in league history be good for your reputation/legacy and for the health of a competitive sports league?
You can argue that he owes the fans nothing, but you can’t argue that this is good for the league. How much more compelling next year would be had he signed for MLE with the Rockets, Celtics, Spurs or even the Lakers?
It’s not his responsibility to do what’s best for the league. He wasn’t getting the money he wanted with a team he wanted in this market so he chose a one year deal with a contender. Why not get a ring while reestablishing your value and going back into free agency next year? It’s a one year deal, zero chance he’s back with them again next year unless he settles for another $5M which I highly doubt. And the Celtics were on his list FYI
(It isn't that teams are run shitty. It is bullshit rules.)
(It isn't that teams are run shitty. It is bullshit rules.)
How did Philly do it? How did Golden State? How did Cleveland?
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Layout a plan for shitty NBA teams to get better. Just a heads up, loading up on draft picks rarely works out. And if you want to get better picks you basically have to throw the season away. Correction: throw multipls seasons away and tank. So, how would you turn around one of the many so-called shitty run teams?
(It isn't that teams are run shitty. It is bullshit rules.)
How did Philly do it? How did Golden State? How did Cleveland?
Philly did it by tanking for years. Golden State got lucky with Curry dropping to them in the draft. Cleveland did it by getting lucky with a generational talent in the draft. It isn't skill as much as it is luck or just pure tanking. Does that sound like a great league set up to you?
I don't care that Cousins is going to GS for cheap. Good for him and good for the Warriors. However, you cannot be so narrow minded and just say we shouldn't hurt the good teams. I agree with that but you have to look at the other side. The good teams, mediocre teams, and bad teams all get hurt unless they get a four leaf clover shoved up their ass when they take a shit.
In the NFL you can have a plan. You can execute that plan.
Now I am way out of my element here in NBA talk, but is the argument that Golden State shouldn't have been allowed to sign Durant and Cousins in free agency because they made two shrewd draft picks and a good trade?
Yeah, Durant is a real path-forger.
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In comment 14005070 Go Terps said:
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Why is "ring chasing" a negative? I thought we respected athletes that want to win titles.
It is funny hearing people say it's a "problem" that players are willing to leave millions on the table to win. It's a free market. How do you stop people willing to take that much less to join a team aside from the NBA assigning teams every year. You can't and shouldn't.
Yeah I fail to see the problem as well. Is it really better to artificially spread resources out evenly and create market forces to try to push teams into the middle of the pack? That's what the NFL does now, and the result is a fairly shitty product where success is as predicated on injury luck as much as anything else. Why not just watch a roulette wheel?
Are you sure that's a result of salary cap limitations rather than practice restrictions?
They also had the balls to trade Monta Ellis - a huge fan favorite - for an injured Andrew Bogut. And they resisted the urge to trade Thompson for Love. And they drafted Draymond Green in the 2nd.
It STILL feels weird to say this about the Warriors, but they're an exceptionally managed and led team now.
A quick turnaround in the NFL can happen in a myriad of ways. Nail a draft or two. Hit on some key free agents. Key coaching staff changes. The NFL is more susceptible to injuries that impact seasons — maybe a team was unlucky with injuries and gets some positive regression the following year.
NBA is checkers because it’s all about accumulating superstars, period. Great coaching or scheme does not matter. The NBA coach of the year was fired after being named coach of the year. Bench play or depth is largely irrelevant. Solid team play is largely irrelevant evidenced by a trash Cleveland team being carried on Lebron’s back to the finals. The league is all about accumulating the most stars or the brightest shining star. So like I said, in order to get there teams take one of two approaches or worse they’re stuck in between with no sliver of hope.
I’m not a Celtics fan, but it just rubs me the wrong way that a team with a shrewd/excellent GM, the best coach in the game, and a bunch of young, home grown talent has zero shot at winning a title. Couldn’t even get past Lebron. The NFL twilight zone version of this would be like Redskins or Cowboys winning the Super Bowl every year in perpetuity.
LA, Houston, GS, Philly, and Boston.
But there are some other things to watch:
What happens in Minny? Will they take the next step?
Can Denver be the most fun team in the league?
How far does the Greek Greak/AD take their teams?
Speaking of AD, does he look at Boston and say thats my path?
Phoenix should be a ton of fun to watch this year.
All these “things to watch” are totally manufactured interest stories. No fan of the league is interested in what you posted above.
Yea! Let’s see how far Greek freak can take a no name roster. Maybe round 2 of the playoffs. I can’t wait!!!
The league is trash and thank god for fantasy sports or the nba would be totally unwatchable
I don’t like the way the game has evolved . I’d rather see the 3-point line removed . Bird said that once he retired . You get six points in football whether you have a 1-yard TD or a 99-yard TD. You get 1 Run in baseball whether you hit a 370 foot homer or a 470 one . But that’s just me . They had great ratings for the Finals . The NBA’s fan base is the youngest of the four, major US professional sports leagues .
It only takes a moron, I guess . He better hope he doesn’t sustain a career-ending injury even with the insurance policy .
Tanking isn’t a problem. It’s a strategy to get better. And isn’t that good?
If the fans don’t like it, they shouldn’t watch the game on TV or go to the game. Let the market speak. If the fans get the strategy, like the Sixers fans did because of the transparency of the Sixers front office, then it can actually work for all involved parties.
Look at last year for the Giants. The best thing they did was basically not win after OBJ went down (and of course others). They should have had the #1 pick, but sort of blew it with a late season win. Nevertheless, they got a #2 pick and a chance to begin a quicker rebuild process. Whether they took the right player/position remains to be seen, but aren’t you glad they had that pick versus, say, the #16 pick - a no man’s land pick - due to a mediocre season?
Of course...
Don’t really know how anyone can applaud it as a strategy. It’s gutless.
When he wins a ring, then gets a max contract next year, be sure to remind all of us what a moron Cousins is.
I don’t like the way the game has evolved . I’d rather see the 3-point line removed . Bird said that once he retired . You get six points in football whether you have a 1-yard TD or a 99-yard TD. You get 1 Run in baseball whether you hit a 370 foot homer or a 470 one . But that’s just me . They had great ratings for the Finals . The NBA’s fan base is the youngest of the four, major US professional sports leagues .
It only takes a moron, I guess . He better hope he doesn’t sustain a career-ending injury even with the insurance policy .
Yeah, he better hope he doesn't rupture his Achilles or something like similar. Because if he did that and had to miss most of the year, he might have to sign for the MLE somewhere.
And now folks seem most mad that the players are choosing to play for a championship instead of dudes in front offices choosing them.
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I see that Steph Curry and Klay Thompson were picked 7th and 11th overall, respectively. So it's not like Golden State won a couple lotteries and got them each first overall. They later traded for Iguadola.
They also had the balls to trade Monta Ellis - a huge fan favorite - for an injured Andrew Bogut. And they resisted the urge to trade Thompson for Love. And they drafted Draymond Green in the 2nd.
It STILL feels weird to say this about the Warriors, but they're an exceptionally managed and led team now.
I don't think anyone can argue they aren't ridiculously well run, drafted great and deserve to be competing for the title every year. I think the point is its a joke to have Durant and Cousins go there and make a mockery out of any competition. There's nothing you can do about changing the rules to stop that, The league already has tried to do that through the Bird exception and extra financial incentive for FA's to stay with teams. As a Warrior fan you should be loving it. Just don't expect us fans of other teams to give a shit and be impressed at this point.
And now folks seem most mad that the players are choosing to play for a championship instead of dudes in front offices choosing them.
I hate this argument. Because it historically didn’t have much parity means we should all just accept it forever? The way the league is set up, allowing for stacking teams creates a severe and artificial lack of parity. If you are fine with it that’s great, but I don’t see how you anyone can’t atleast understand the other side of this. It shouldn’t be a shock that people are turned off by the nba because of it.
Cousins made a really good move, good for him. My problem isn’t with him since if he was 100% healthy and killing it he wouldn’t forego a max deal for $5 million, rather, my issue is with the top players in the game and what they do, often times hanging their previous franchise out to dry in the process.
Go ahead and show me the max contract Cousins left on the table. Offering a player with demonstrable personality concerns and a ruptured Achilles massive money would indicate more wrong with the league than him signing the MLE.
The NFL has a lot of safeguards in place to ensure parity. It is very difficult to have a strategy that ensures long-term success. You have to pretty much hit on having an excellent coach, a franchise QB and avoid dehabilitating injuries, and even then, success may be fleeting
The formula in the NBA is pretty well known. Get 2-3 stars to come to your team. You can get the stars either through the draft or FA, but you just need to get them and you'll be competitive.
The trick is getting them, but the formula is pretty much fool-proof. There is no magic formula in the NFL that ensures success, especially long-term.
The Knicks aren't close to winning anything so I really don't care much about this stuff, but I laugh at some of the reactions. People have overrotated to the players a bit here. So now players just want to win so they should be applauded and now we should clap for the players because they control their own destiny, not some old stiff white guy in the front office. It's not about the owners vs players, once again it's the fans of teams that get screwed.
In regards to moves like Cousins. I'm not gonna applaud the guy for trying to win. I love guys that try to win, everyone should do whatever it takes to win, but I hate guys that need to take the easy road to do it. Lebron left Cle twice because they weren't the favorites anymore. He left Miami when they no longer had an easy road to the finals. Durant joined the 73 win Warriors after taking them to the brink the year before. I respect a guy like Westbrook more. He doesn't want to join those guys, he wants to beat them. So no, I won't applaud these spoiled brats for wanting to win, how about you show some competitive fire and try to beat those guys.
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parity.
And now folks seem most mad that the players are choosing to play for a championship instead of dudes in front offices choosing them.
I hate this argument. Because it historically didn’t have much parity means we should all just accept it forever? The way the league is set up, allowing for stacking teams creates a severe and artificial lack of parity. If you are fine with it that’s great, but I don’t see how you anyone can’t atleast understand the other side of this. It shouldn’t be a shock that people are turned off by the nba because of it.
I get the other side. But the system is what the system is. The owners have set up a salary cap that restricts the salaries that they can give out and the players choose what is best for them. Some pull a Melo and get the biggest checks they can get. Some take less to win. KD took less. LBJ, Bosh, Wade took less. Boogie is taking less. All these "super teams" start with at least one player taking less in order to win. I can see why it makes the league less fun for some folks but I just think the outrage over it is a bit nuts.
I thought this was an interesting tweet, though:
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LeBron and Chris Paul are put in lose-lose situations. Being the heads of the union, they have to accept full contracts at their peak rate. Taking less is basically a disservice to their titles.
Doing so while the Warriors keep taking less means they have no chance at competing.
When the Warriors signed Durant, it killed all the excitement I had watching Curry play and watching Kerr as a coach. The only way I can describe it is that there was no longer any "juice" in watching Curry play.
I was no longer on the edge of my seat seeing if Curry could lead his team on an explosion and carry the offense and pull runs out of his ass. Now, with Steph, Klay, and Durant all on the same time, the spacing is so insane that these guys are always open and someone is bound to go off. Curry's shots were no longer as consequential when Durant, maybe the best iso scorer ever, was on the court with him.
Now, with Boogie on the team, it's even more ridiculous. There's no longer any "juice" in watching Curry or the Warriors.
Ah well.
The days of two or three stars on each team and you could tune in to watch interesting matchups are long gone I guess. I mean, how fun is it to watch the Warriors take turn shooting 3’s and beating teams by 40 every night?
And I don’t care how many rings KD wins, to me he will just be part of this Warriors ensemble.
I still haven't seen a good argument as to how this is good for the league or makes it at all enjoyable.
What's the point of being invested in it. The Warriors are going to win again next summer unless half their players get hurt.
As a Knicks fan who already knows my team has no hope, I'd want to actually watch the NBA if it was competitive elsewhere but it's not. That's why it sucks.
I'm not blaming the players. I think the salary cap structure sucks with all of these stupid exceptions and loopholes. The league has literally become all about tanking because it's the only option teams have if they don't have one of these superteams.
Team building isn't even a thing. There's no strategy. 2-3 of these guys get together somewhere, decide they want to play together and then teams do all sorts of contract dumping to accommodate the bullshit.
I just fail to see where there's any excitement in the NBA right now or what reason anyone other than fans of maybe 4 teams have any reason whatsoever to be invested or give any sort of a shit.
Now, the NBA is different bht in principal it is the same. It isn't the "small market" team that cannot compete. Now it is just many not fortunate teams. There are only so many stars to go around and they are all going to just a handful of teams. You better believe this is a problem. Tbis isnt dynasty talk anymore. Dynasties back then were built totally differently. The dynasties today are built by destroying the majority of teams. This is absolutely a problem and the commissioner has admitted so.
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There are never, ever upsets in the NBA. There are never upstart teams like the 2011 Giants.
There needs to be a balance. I don't have a problem with dynasties but this is absurd. There needs to be some kind of competitive balance.
The 2011 Giants probably don't win the Super Bowl if they have to win four best-out-of-seven playoff series. That's why single elimination playoffs will always be more exciting. Anything can happen. But it will never happen in the NBA.
Every playoff game is game 7 in the NFL. Which makes it more exciting. Obviously if football wasn't so physically taxing I'm sure the league would kill for a 7 game series.
Link - ( New Window )
There are massive upsets in baseball and hockey, and those have best of seven series as well. In 2014 an 88 win Royals beat the 89 win Giants. 2006, the 83 win Cardinals had the worst record ever by a World Series champ. In the NHL there aren't too many jaw-dropping Cup winners, but there ARE a ton of favorites who get knocked off in the first two rounds, something that almost never happens in basketball.
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The current system of having a soft cap has to go. It is ridiculous that due to the timing of contracts and multiple exceptions, that a team like Golden State can have a payroll of $140 million dollars while the team that they just played in the first round of the playoffs, the Pelicans, is "capped out" at $111,000. Or to take it even further, our Knicks have no money left to spend and have a payroll of $105 million. How is a team supposed to compete when they are only able to spend 75% of what some of the competition is spending?
They need to put a hard cap in place, no bird rights, no exceptions. Put in a $150 million hard cap and let everyone be on a level playing field.
On top of that, teams need to have some type of protection that prevents players like Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, Kyrie Irving, etc. from holding them hostage. You know how you prevent Kevin Durant from teaming up with the Warriors? Give each team the equivalent of a franchise tag that they can designate to one player. The NBA more than any other league is star dependent, so teams should have some type of protection in place to prevent their stars from holding them hostage and forcing a trade the way they do now. Where are the New Orleans Pelicans going to be in 2 years if they lose Anthony Davis? How about the Knicks if they are unable to retain Kristaps Porzingis? Take the leverage away from the players in these situations and let the teams have more control over the guys they draft.
Just amazing some fans will always find something to bitch about.
But it doesn't matter. They are replacing Zaza with an all nba talent. Even if he comes back at 70%, he will still help that team dominate. And they don't even need him to close out games. Their best lineup is still with Iguodola. But it sucks becuase it an ideal world, Boogie is the type of player that could hurt the warriors and now they just signed him for 5 mill.
What the hell were the Lakers thinking? Why not throw 10-15 mill at him instead of the scrubs they just signed? I don't get what they are doing.
But for the larger part on the state of the NBA, check out the linked article. It makes some great points about how important narratives are in sports and how they need to deliver entertainment. The NBA is failing at that on the some levels right now.
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As compared to other NFL champions? Yes, within that subset they were absolutely mediocre by every measure.
And isn't the NFL criticized for its parity?
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It definitely could - but the Warriors don't need Boogie. He's a luxury. If he starts giving half-assed efforts, he won't play
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parity.
And isn't the NFL criticized for its parity?
On the contrary. I think people really like the fact that lots of teams can win it all in a given year.
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Yeah there are 5 teams worth watching try and get to the finals:
LA, Houston, GS, Philly, and Boston.
But there are some other things to watch:
What happens in Minny? Will they take the next step?
Can Denver be the most fun team in the league?
How far does the Greek Greak/AD take their teams?
Speaking of AD, does he look at Boston and say thats my path?
Phoenix should be a ton of fun to watch this year.
All these “things to watch” are totally manufactured interest stories. No fan of the league is interested in what you posted above.
Yea! Let’s see how far Greek freak can take a no name roster. Maybe round 2 of the playoffs. I can’t wait!!!
The league is trash and thank god for fantasy sports or the nba would be totally unwatchable
I have no problem with the Pats dynasty, for example. I had no problem with GS originally when they hit HRs with Curry, Thompson, and Green. I had no problem with the Spurs success over the past 15/20 years.
Teams can pick up the 3rd and 4th year of a rookie player's contract. They can then make a qualifying offer to make the player a restricted free agent and could then potentially match a deal for another 4 years (if I'm not mistaken). Essentially, team could keep a player it likes for the first 8 years of his career.
My other issue with franchise tags (more so in the NFL) is that it prevents players from signing multi-year deals when injuries could completely derail them. The franchise tag should require that the team takes out an insurance policy against the player's injury and loss of future earnings.
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The fact that so many here reference that team as being mediocre is pathetic.
As compared to other NFL champions? Yes, within that subset they were absolutely mediocre by every measure.
This isn’t the 2005 Steelers beating Matt Hasselback and the Seahawks in the SB. I’ll take 9-7 and beating a 15-1 Packer team in Lambeau & Belichick/Brady along the way to a title.
The NFL realized they had a problem in the 80's with superteams being assembled by outspending the competition. They instituted the salary cap. It is a model that had worked, and it is continually tweaked to allow all teams to be competitive if they make the correct moves.
The NBA has put a system in place that was intended to help with parity, but has resulted in the opposite effect because of terrible rules. They know it. We know it. The teams know it. Yet it doesn't change.
I'm with UConn. Parity or not doesn't matter to me. The way things are implemented or play out does.
Also, how does LBJ do in LA? What does that roster look like? Where's Kawhi going? Is Jimmy Buckets out of MN next summer? How about Celts trading for AD? Is Kyrie interested in the Knicks?
That stuff, & a ton more, makes me love the NBA.
For all the bitching people do about the league, interest is up evidenced by TV ratings.
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I try to keep telling myself that this signing could backfire on them. He could fracture the lockeroom, hurt their switching defense and just cause problems. How a talented offensive player who turns it over and doesn't try hard on D is the last type of center the Warriors need.
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It definitely could - but the Warriors don't need Boogie. He's a luxury. If he starts giving half-assed efforts, he won't play
This is what really sucks. The Warriors have zero at risk here. If he causes any problems they simply cut him and lose nothing. It's not like they are even making a salary cap sacrifice.
But if he comes back strong and is motivated and dominating? This team could win 75+ games if they wanted to and won't be challenged even slightly in the playoffs.
Their 2 biggest challenges the last 2 years ( Cavs, Rockets) have gotten worse while they keep getting better.
People said the same thing about the NFL for a long time. My own hunch is the same one I had about the NFL - popularity looks massive on the surface but it's a mile wide and an inch deep, driven by extremely casual fans.
Overall ratings are down. Regular season ratings are down. Postseason ratings are up.
There's also an interesting article out there (I'll try to find it) about how the amount of each game being watched is down.
Basically, people tune into the end of games and the end of the season. The rest of the time they are ambivalent.
16-17: 112.0 bill.
15-16: 124.4
14-15: 114.8
13-14: 120.4
12-13: 128.1
NBA needs to fix problems - ( New Window )
choices teams make dictate their success... not the NBA rules.
its harder to quickly turn around in the nba--- for sure. but all the whining about the league... in particular in the NY area... is because we root for teams that are or were poorly run.
A team can draft fair and have one legitimate star and still be part of the NBA dregs and non-competitive.
Eh, to each their own. I just love basketball. It's my favorite sport after football & doesn't have the moral issue that bothers me, i.e. I'm watching men who might not remember their name in 15 years beat the hell out of each other for my enjoyment.
1. Is LBJ the GOAT?
2. Where will X player sign in FA?
3. Can you win with Russell Westbrook
Etc. I’d be curious to see how many of these casual fans are watching Bucks-Raptors on NBAtv in January.
I think that’s wonderful, but I do think the discussion regarding all sports now (mainly NFL & NBA) is very surfaced.
Attendance up TV ratings up merchandise up - ( New Window )
Season Network Rating
2017–18 ABC 2.2
2016–17 ABC 1.9
2015–16 ABC 2.3
2014–15 ABC 2.2
2013–14 ABC 2.3
2012–13 ABC 2.9
2011–12 (lockout shortened) ABC 3.3
2010–11 ABC 3.0
2009–10 ABC 2.3
2008–09 ABC 2.3
2007–08 ABC 2.2
2006–07 ABC 2.0
2005–06 ABC 2.2
2004–05 ABC 2.3
2003–04 ABC 2.4
2002–03 ABC 2.6
2001–02 NBC 2.9
2000–01 NBC 3.0
1999–2000 NBC 3.3
1998–99 (lockout shortened) NBC 4.3
1997–98 NBC 4.6
1996–97 NBC 4.7
1995–96 NBC 5.0
They have been flat since ABC/ESPN took over the games
I am a basketball nerd. My team is going to suck so I have to watch other things. Phoenix should be a ton of fun to watch now. Minny needs a new coach but they have a ton of talent.
And there are a shitload of talent to watch even though their teams aren’t the warriors.
I have no problem with the Pats dynasty, for example. I had no problem with GS originally when they hit HRs with Curry, Thompson, and Green. I had no problem with the Spurs success over the past 15/20 years.
Do you have a problem with the Warriors now? If so, when was the tipping point? Should they not have been allowed to sign Durant?
(2007–present)
Season ABC TNT ESPN NBA TV
2017–18 3.82M 1.74M 1.63M 0.31M
2016–17 3.27M 1.54M 1.57M 0.31M
2015–16 3.93M 1.68M 1.65M 0.35M
2014–15 3.59M 1.67M 1.50M 0.29M
2013–14 3.58M 1.90M 1.68M 0.32M
2012–13 4.70M 2.00M 1.77M 0.34M
2011–12 (lockout shortened) 5.42M 2.50M 1.86M 0.34M
2010–11 5.11M 2.40M 1.99M 0.25M
2009–10 3.69M 1.72M 1.56M ---
2008–09 3.68M 1.71M 1.68M ---
2007–08 3.18M 1.47M 1.47M ---
It has fluctuated year by year and is actually down since 2011-2012
Your definition of "every metric" doesn't seem to include the regular season.
I've already said the Finals ratings have steadily increased.
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parity = good, no parity = bad. It’s how said parity is achieved that I have issues with.
I have no problem with the Pats dynasty, for example. I had no problem with GS originally when they hit HRs with Curry, Thompson, and Green. I had no problem with the Spurs success over the past 15/20 years.
Do you have a problem with the Warriors now? If so, when was the tipping point? Should they not have been allowed to sign Durant?
I think how easy it was for them to get on the teams want is the sticking point. They don’t sign long term deals anymore. 1-2 years with opt out clauses. It puts the team in huge binds.
Yes. And not that I am against free agency either but it seems like players have ALL the power.
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parity = good, no parity = bad. It’s how said parity is achieved that I have issues with.
I have no problem with the Pats dynasty, for example. I had no problem with GS originally when they hit HRs with Curry, Thompson, and Green. I had no problem with the Spurs success over the past 15/20 years.
Do you have a problem with the Warriors now? If so, when was the tipping point? Should they not have been allowed to sign Durant?
You know the answer to that question already. I can simultaneously understand why Durant made the move and hate it at the same time. I don’t understand this notion to be all in one either side of this. LeBron and Durant and Leonard can do whatever the hell they want, but that doesn’t mean I have to accept it, like it, and watch the product.
I'm not asking players to stay on awful teams for a decade just to placate fans or for the sake of competitive fire - but he had Russell Westbrook on his team and that team could have challenged GSW pretty easily the last couple of seasons if he had stayed there and they added a little more depth.
That move tipped the scales so heavily that it's comical now.
Yeah, Houston came close. And James Harden had some horrific shooting performances.
I don't need to see the type of parity we see in the NFL - but I'd like there to be more than 1-2 teams in each conference with any semblance of a chance. I don't think that's unreasonable.
And also, what about the benefit of being able to watch a truly great team? This Warriors team will be remembered forever. Doesn't that matter?
He and Russ weren't best buds, but they won a lot of games together and could have beaten Golden State if they gave it another shot. I wanted to see Durant be a competitor and say "I know I can beat those guys and I'm going to work harder than ever this offseason to get back there next year"
He took the easiest way out possible and the last two GS titles felt cheap. If I want to watch that shit, I'll just watch the Globetrotters play the Generals.
It doesn't excite or interest me to watch an all star team just steamroll pretty much everyone else.
Again, I don't need 20 teams to be in the mix or extreme parity. But there should be more than 2 teams in each conference that have more than a complete miracle of a chance at winning a title.
It's a deflating league when fans of like 28 teams already know they have no shot whatsoever come opening night. That sucks and isn't true in any other league but this one.
And also, what about the benefit of being able to watch a truly great team? This Warriors team will be remembered forever. Doesn't that matter?
a) I believe a lot of the acrimony between KD and Westbrook was due to the fact he left, and how
b) Harden was not the player he is now at the time he left OKC. I don't think anyone projected him to be someone who would end up being league MVP a few years later
That said, joining the best team in the league was a bush league move and unfortunately for Durant I get to call him a pussy (I’m sure he doesn’t care). Is watching history happen worth something? To me, no. I get no enjoyment out of watching this GS team, it’s just so damn artificial at this point.
Durant could have won a chip in OKC and him going to GSW tipped the scales to a laughable degree. I really just think that move was absolutely awful for the NBA. And hey, he has every right to do it. But as a fan, it's my right to call it weak and disagree with it too.
How do you know? Maybe among his family's interests are living in the Bay Area. Maybe he's confident that the Warriors' culture (there IS something to it) will help him become a better player in more ways than one, and prepare him for an even better future.
I think I see it the other way. Artificial, to me, would have been putting some mechanism in place to prevent Durant from making the move he wanted to make. Calling him a pussy or lauding him is up to each individual fan to decide at that point.
Durant could have won a chip in OKC and him going to GSW tipped the scales to a laughable degree. I really just think that move was absolutely awful for the NBA. And hey, he has every right to do it. But as a fan, it's my right to call it weak and disagree with it too.
Lebron did start it. He organized the signings before they were free agents. He could have stayed in Cleveland and easily signed Bosh as well. And again, lebron publicly stated who he wanted to play with. Lebron has controlled the organization before he left for the Heat. Either appease or he leaves. And if the team stinks, he leaves anyways.
The pattern is there, people are starting to see it.
Durant could have won a chip in OKC and him going to GSW tipped the scales to a laughable degree. I really just think that move was absolutely awful for the NBA. And hey, he has every right to do it. But as a fan, it's my right to call it weak and disagree with it too.
Durant joined the team that came back from a 3-1 deficit against him on OKC. GS had already won a title. A tremendously impactful move which altered the NBA.
Imagine losing a NFC title game to the Eagles, blowing a 14 point 4th quarter lead where Odell drops some crucial passes. He then joins the Eagles. From a competitive standpoint, it’s weak.
And I get that too. KD was 27 years old. He had lived in OKC for years. Perhaps he wanted to live elsewhere & see a different culture. He also has business interests in Silicon Valley.
I'm all over the map, Haha. I see both sides, though it rubs me that he went to the team he nearly beat to win the West.
I'll be honest... actually I'm kind of over it. For one, I've never been as much of a basketball fan as a football fan. But more importantly, I've discovered that the most gratifying aspect of following sports for me is to watch a terrible team finally emerge into a consistently great one. The Warriors have satisfied that desire more than I could ever hope a team would, but I'd rather the Giants do it. And I've found that once the team is at this level, it's just not as interesting to me anymore.
It's like how I find the origin story to be the best part of any well-done superhero movie.
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People say this is all LeBron's fault and that he started all of this, but LeBron never would have left Cleveland the first time if he had a player as good as Westbrook there. He left because he spent 7 years there and they continued to pair him with garbage like Larry Hughes and Antawn Jamison.
Durant could have won a chip in OKC and him going to GSW tipped the scales to a laughable degree. I really just think that move was absolutely awful for the NBA. And hey, he has every right to do it. But as a fan, it's my right to call it weak and disagree with it too.
Lebron did start it. He organized the signings before they were free agents. He could have stayed in Cleveland and easily signed Bosh as well. And again, lebron publicly stated who he wanted to play with. Lebron has controlled the organization before he left for the Heat. Either appease or he leaves. And if the team stinks, he leaves anyways.
The pattern is there, people are starting to see it.
Actually, the 2008 Celtics were before LeBron went to Miami.
And LeBron just went to the Lakers. Who's there? Lonzo Ball, Ingram, Kuzma and Deng? Wow.. what a super team. At least he's trying to beat Golden State instead of find a way to join them.
I kid, I kid.
Anyway, in the scenario you painted I think it should still be up to Beckham to do what he wants. If you want to judge him as weak or whatever, that's up to you. But to install something that prohibits him from going to the Eagles would be wrong IMO.
There should be amore rigid cap structure. It would eliminate a lot of this nonsense.
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it’s just so damn artificial at this point.
I think I see it the other way. Artificial, to me, would have been putting some mechanism in place to prevent Durant from making the move he wanted to make. Calling him a pussy or lauding him is up to each individual fan to decide at that point.
I’m not asking for the move to be blocked. I’m asking for a system to be put in place that gives more teams the chance to succeed. I don’t know what the solution is, but the current system isn’t working, it’s pretty awful actually.
What the hell were the Lakers thinking? Why not throw 10-15 mill at him instead of the scrubs they just signed? I don't get what they are doing.
It's probably LeBron's fault.
I think this aspect of his decision is supremely neglected.
By all accounts, Durant's visit with the Warriors left a hell of an impression. Put yourself in his shoes -- you attend a meeting like that and every instinct is telling you that's where you want to be, and you think you'd decline it out of principle, because you're worried about how you'd be judged?
Sheesh, you only have one life to live.
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What the hell were the Lakers thinking? Why not throw 10-15 mill at him instead of the scrubs they just signed? I don't get what they are doing.
It's probably LeBron's fault.
It’s ok to blame Lebron. We got about 6 months til he blames everyone else.
Yes.
LBJ is really rankled that the Golden State Warriors will be signing DeMarcus Cousins. Especially for only $5 million when he thought Cousins would become a Laker. One of the main reasons they got Rondo was because of how well he meshed with Cousins in one season AND LBJ does not like to play with rookies or young players. This is why he had Wiggins shipped out along with the others before he returned to Cleveland. (Hell, iirc he had about 16 players leave before he agreed to return ??)
Joel Embiid is on his Twitter encouraging LBJ to change his mind like DeAndre Jordan did a few years ago with The Mavericks. For those not aware, Joel is signed with Klutch Sports the agency that LeBron owns.
Sidebar - A few years ago a few owners made a stink about LBJ being able to control players that were signed to an agency he owns because that is against the rules for an active player. LBJ’s name was “removed” from the paperwork but it is still there buried under a ton of paperwork and entities and his childhood friends are the figureheads, I mean the owners. Allegedly. Combine that with the fact that his best friend Chris Paul is the rep for the players so LBJ always knows what is going on in the owners meetings which enfuriates some of the owners even more. This explains why players start popping off about only playing for this or that team when the owners had other moves that they wanted to make.
Joel is not doing this of his own volition. He is being told to do this because if LB did it himself the public outcry would be one that he might not ever overcome. Which is exactly the reason why I firmly feel he will sign on Friday with the Lakers.
However, this is being leaked to put pressure on Rob Pelinka and Magic Johnson. The Lakers were totally content to stand pat and wait for Kawhi to become a free agent next year instead of giving away the farm and let the young core grow a little more this season and see how they meshed with LBJ as the entire league knows no one is catching GSW next year. Only 2/3 other teams can even entertain the thought of upending GSW next year.
Nothing is done at or from Klutch Sports without approval. They are a very tight group and control everything to do with their organization. Hence Joel Embiid’s recent tweets. So do not be surprised if you see a trade being swung before Friday for Kawhi or Anthony Davis which are the names bandied about right now behind the scenes, even at this hour. Look for Anthony Davis name to “come out of nowhere” but a lot of things have been put in place for awhile which is the reason he just bought a house in Harvard Westlake area 2 days ago.
Link - ( New Window )
And LeBron just went to the Lakers. Who's there? Lonzo Ball, Ingram, Kuzma and Deng? Wow.. what a super team. At least he's trying to beat Golden State instead of find a way to join them.
By May 2019, when the Warriors tear the Lakers apart in a playoff series, we are going to see people claim that LeBron is not up to par with Jordan and suggest that those players you mentioned are of the same caliber (maybe even better!) than Jordan's supporting cast was. I guaran-damn-tee it.
And LeBron just went to the Lakers. Who's there? Lonzo Ball, Ingram, Kuzma and Deng? Wow.. what a super team. At least he's trying to beat Golden State instead of find a way to join them.
I don't know, I bet if the Warriors or Rockets were able to offer LeBron ~$25M he signs with one of them over the Lakers.
I don't blame him for trying to recruit solid players - especially when there is so much else to blame him for. It's fun that he's on the Lakers now - a guy I've always detested joins a team I love to hate - perfect combination.
Also, the '08 Celts were built by Danny Ainge, the way it's "supposed" to be - not one of the players. The players forming their own team situation did start with Lebron and Miami.
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And LeBron just went to the Lakers. Who's there? Lonzo Ball, Ingram, Kuzma and Deng? Wow.. what a super team. At least he's trying to beat Golden State instead of find a way to join them.
By May 2019, when the Warriors tear the Lakers apart in a playoff series, we are going to see people claim that LeBron is not up to par with Jordan and suggest that those players you mentioned are of the same caliber (maybe even better!) than Jordan's supporting cast was. I guaran-damn-tee it.
Of course!
I don't blame him for trying to recruit solid players - especially when there is so much else to blame him for. It's fun that he's on the Lakers now - a guy I've always detested joins a team I love to hate - perfect combination.
Also, the '08 Celts were built by Danny Ainge, the way it's "supposed" to be - not one of the players. The players forming their own team situation did start with Lebron and Miami.
LOL. "Rumor has it"... real solid foundation for an argument...
He's not playing with KD and the team he went to doesn't have any other superstars on it right now. So, we can either discuss reality or we can discuss rumors and hypotheticals.
LeBron has spent the majority of his career on teams with crappy supporting casts. The team he carried to the finals this year was absolutely horrid. Durant got there a whopping 1 time before he bolted and that was WITH James Harden and Russell Westbrook.
People talk about LeBron James like he's spent the last 15 years forming super teams.
NBA- soft cap but impossible to have a quick turn around
NFL- can go from worst to First with good drafting/shrewd moves. But, a hard cap makes sustainability difficult.
NHL- not entirely sure of the cap in the NHL, but there seems to be a lot of parity.
MLB- no cap.
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And LeBron just went to the Lakers. Who's there? Lonzo Ball, Ingram, Kuzma and Deng? Wow.. what a super team. At least he's trying to beat Golden State instead of find a way to join them.
By May 2019, when the Warriors tear the Lakers apart in a playoff series, we are going to see people claim that LeBron is not up to par with Jordan and suggest that those players you mentioned are of the same caliber (maybe even better!) than Jordan's supporting cast was. I guaran-damn-tee it.
Not one person said last years cavs supporting team was better than the bulls supporting cast.
But the notion that lebron has never played with anyone is a damn joke.
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Rumor has it Lebron reached out to KD to try and get him to the Lakers so he's far from absolved. If the Warriors players were in LA, he'd be joining them with that full LeBron grin.
I don't blame him for trying to recruit solid players - especially when there is so much else to blame him for. It's fun that he's on the Lakers now - a guy I've always detested joins a team I love to hate - perfect combination.
Also, the '08 Celts were built by Danny Ainge, the way it's "supposed" to be - not one of the players. The players forming their own team situation did start with Lebron and Miami.
LOL. "Rumor has it"... real solid foundation for an argument...
He's not playing with KD and the team he went to doesn't have any other superstars on it right now. So, we can either discuss reality or we can discuss rumors and hypotheticals.
LeBron has spent the majority of his career on teams with crappy supporting casts. The team he carried to the finals this year was absolutely horrid. Durant got there a whopping 1 time before he bolted and that was WITH James Harden and Russell Westbrook.
People talk about LeBron James like he's spent the last 15 years forming super teams.
Sorry, should maybe have said it was reported - look up Lebron contacts KD if you'd like the articles - they were out there. This isn't something I made up. Maybe the reporters did, but why would you doubt the concept? KD was a free agent after opting out. We know LeBron tries to team up with whatever talent is available. Certainly makes sense to me - you think it's more plausible he didn't try to team up with KD?
Also, you really think he would have turned down joining a team with KD, Curry, and the rest? That's a joke - if it were possible, he'd have done it. He'd welcome them to LA right now with open arms - why wouldn't he...because he'd rather beat them then join them - hilarious.
And if Lebron has spent the majority of his career with bad supporting casts - then blame Lebron. He is quite often the one pulling the strings. I'm not going to defend what KD did, but trying to defend James's actions is a tough stake to claim. I'm glad his flopping and whining to the refs will be in the West now...they can have him.
That is true.
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giving his old team a sweetheart deal
That is true.
That was only one piece. Ainge orchestrated it from the Celts side. And even using the McHale perspective - it was a GM and not one of the players involved, which was the bigger point vs. Lebron's Miami orchestration.
No doubt, he was the key to the title win.
NBA- soft cap but impossible to have a quick turn around
NFL- can go from worst to First with good drafting/shrewd moves. But, a hard cap makes sustainability difficult.
NHL- not entirely sure of the cap in the NHL, but there seems to be a lot of parity.
MLB- no cap.
Every system has its flaws - I think the players have way too much power in baseball. Fully gtd. contracts, money that is completely absurd and keeps getting even crazier, etc. Teams are placing more value now on international scouting and signing IFA's - there's a ton of talent coming from kids over there. Teams are placing a premium on young talent now probably more than ever - a lot of the teams spending big money on FA's are regretting those contracts.
My issue with the NFL deals is the opposite. Players don't have enough power there and in a sport where you can literally get killed on the field, I think it's absurd how little some of these guys can actually make relative to their contract numbers - especially compared to what baseball and basketball players get.
The NBA just feels like a fucking free-for-all with mid-level exceptions, Bird Rights, "SUPERMAN" contracts, max contracts, supermax contracts, etc - this is all complete overkill and there are way, way too many exceptions and bullshit things that create loopholes. Trying to read through the NBA CBA is like reading War and Peace. There needs to be a more rigid cap structure.
I actually like the NHL structure. Aside from the fact that I don't think players are fairly compensated (the best of the best players get like ~10M per year which is nowhere near what they're getting in other sports) but I think the NHL structure actually works pretty well and keeps a good competitive balance across the league. The cap has continued to rise each year, which is good. It's not a perfect structure, but I think the playing field is pretty level and there's really no way to manipulate the cap to ice some ridiculously unfair team.
The best way to build a sustainable contender in the NHL is really to draft well, have a solid pipeline of young talent and make smart vet signings to supplement it.
So, while I don't think any system is perfect, I actually think the NHL's structure provides the best competitive balance overall.
The SCF this past year was sort of a microcosm of why I like the league even though I was really against seeing Vegas win as an expansion team in year one. The NHL did a bad job with that, the team shouldnt have been that good in year one. But beyond that, you had a team with an elite superstar player in Ovechkin going against the Golden Knights - it was sort of like extremes in opposite directions, but that's what I like about the NHL. The best players often win, but they also lose and it is absolutely not a foregone conclusion whatsoever that any one team will get to the Finals. It's hard to even predict right before the playoffs start.
I know most NBA fans generally don't like hockey - but that's just my 0.02.
Adam Silver is probably the best commissioner in sports. He’s already said it’s a problem and is looking for ways to fix it. He can’t just eradicate the CBA, this won’t change over night. You are mad at the wrong person.
Cousins is a known pain and is coming off a major injury. Everyone is wrapped up in the name and the obsession with the Warriors. The market pretty clearly spoke -- he's a prove it type player as of now. The Warriors didn't sprinkle "screw the league" fairy dust, they are taking a risk on a risky situation because they can.
The Thibs effect. Thibs should have been fired at the end of the season.
The purpose of sports is to win. I'd an athlete wants to take less money, rehabilitate his image and win a championship... Good on him. Why should he take a deal on a shitty team... Because you think he should?
The competitive balance is alive and well in the NBA (except for Golden State). There are tons of good teams in the NBA. The Rockets should have won the series with GSW. The cap is one of the better salary caps in all of sports... And it's the most player friendly. The reason that some people perceive theiir not being a competitive balance... Is because NBA teams over pay for average players and are in salary cap jail. Just like my Miami Heat. Overpayed Whiteside's subpar ass... Now they can't sign anyone.
To be the man... You have beat the man. And all other teams haven't figured it out how to beat GSW yet. It's okay. One day they will. Enjoy watching a real dynasty before your eyes.
And you think everyone else's comments were "hilarious"?
LOL.
And no there isn’t a competitive balance. Take away GS and all it’s players and it’s still down to 2 or 3 teams only. If it enjoy the nba in its current form that’s great, but it’s hilarious that you can’t fathtom my many people don’t share your views.
10 out of 15 teams in the west had a winning record. The league is littered with superstars. Outside of GSW... The NBA is very competitive.
Nah. He's defended it. More times than once.
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Then you have the wide open East, yeah Boston and Philly are probably the early favorites, but how does Toronto look now with the coaching change. Could the Wizards finally live up to their potential or does Milwaukee now that they have a real coach?
All of these are just meaningless side stories now because unless something ridiculous happens, like Curry and Thompson blowing their knees out, the Warriors are going to win their 3rd straight title and 4th in 5 years.
The NBA really needs to hope that Durant is satisfied with that, and looks for a new challenge after this season. There has been a lot of talk from multiple guys that follow the league about a Knicks/Durant union, the NBA has to be just salivating at that possibility. Talk about competitive balance, you would have legit contenders in New York, Boston, Philly, Golden State, LA, and Houston, some of the biggest markets in the country.
10 out of 15 teams in the west had a winning record. The league is littered with superstars. Outside of GSW... The NBA is very competitive.
You may want to do some research on baseball and how many different teams have won a World Series in the past couple of decades...
By the way, they just lost the Super Bowl to a backup QB in case you forgot.
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there is a problem with competitive balance in the NBA?
Nah. He's defended it. More times than once. Link - ( New Window )
Not quite...he certainly recognizes it’s an issue in a much more recent article from a couple of days ago with a Golden State beat writer. Don’t know how to link the article from my phone but a simple google search will bring it up.
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in the AFC is worse than the NBA. The Patriots have been to 10 Super Bowls in 16 years and I can't remember the last time they Didn't win their division. How about baseball? Where either you pay to win... Or you tank to win. Yeah. That's really competitive.
10 out of 15 teams in the west had a winning record. The league is littered with superstars. Outside of GSW... The NBA is very competitive.
You may want to do some research on baseball and how many different teams have won a World Series in the past couple of decades...
In the last 10 years alone, 8 different teams have won the World Series. The National League has had 6 different teams represent them in the Series, the AL has had 8. I don't know how that could be considered non-competitive.
By the way, they just lost the Super Bowl to a backup QB in case you forgot.
That takes away from their dominance since 2001. Okay
If you really believe the NFL has a competitive balance issue but think it's "good" in the NBA, I don't know what to tell you other than that your opinion is absolutely absurd.
My point with baseball was... The teams that win either pay or they tank. Astros, Cubs and Royals all tanked for 4-7 years before they had their 1-2 seasons. Royals are back to tanking. That's not "competitive". I think 8 teams are tanking this year? That's a quarter of the league. How is that competitive?
My point with baseball was... The teams that win either pay or they tank. Astros, Cubs and Royals all tanked for 4-7 years before they had their 1-2 seasons. Royals are back to tanking. That's not "competitive". I think 8 teams are tanking this year? That's a quarter of the league. How is that competitive?
If your goal is to have zero bad teams, that is never going to happen. Regardless of what the system is, there will always be good teams and bad, the idea of parity is that it is not the same teams every year. I also don't really know what your example is trying to prove. You're saying there are two ways to win in baseball, either spend money or build through the farm and take your lumps while the young guys develop. Well yeah, what other alternative would there be, how is that a bad thing?
The competitive balance in the NBA will fix itself once other franchises figure out how to duplicate that process and build their own teams organically. At this point that may take a while, but we gotta stop faulting players who just want to go somewhere that gives them a chance of winning.
The NFL is a great example because it used to be like this - unbalanced and no parity. It's not like that anymore. On a regular basis teams go from being on the bottom of their division to rising to the top. The Patriots' dominance is the exception, but that's more of a credit to the historic level of greatness of Bill Belichick and Tom Brady than it is an indictment of the NFL or AFC.
My point with baseball was... The teams that win either pay or they tank. Astros, Cubs and Royals all tanked for 4-7 years before they had their 1-2 seasons. Royals are back to tanking. That's not "competitive". I think 8 teams are tanking this year? That's a quarter of the league. How is that competitive?
So, you're arguing that baseball is not competitive because teams like the Royals are taking - but think the competitive balance in the NBA is fine and dandy despite the fact that tanking is probably MOST prevalent in basketball and has even been acknowledged as an issue by the commissioner.
Do I have that right?
Tanking in baseball isn't quite as rewarding as it is in the NBA, either. The draft and team structures are very different.
Getting a LeBron James automatically makes you a contender. The Nationals still haven't won a playoff series despite having Harper, Strasburg and then signing the best pitcher in the NL in Scherzer. There's quite a difference.
Are we watching the same thing?
Are we watching the same thing?
6 teams that have an actual shot at the title. That's not new for the NBA.
On the other hand, a league where the bottom 1/2 has a shot at the title would not be a product I'd be interested in watching if it means some kind of artificial even distribution of talent.
The ratings say otherwise but the season length and playoff format are a bore to me. I don't know how you fix that without taking games away from the revenue stream to boost the stakes.
Heck, last year you had the Jags, Titans and Bills making the playoffs. Since 2010, Every team but the Browns has made the playoffs.
If a poster is going to call people "holier than thou", it is usually fucking nice if they at least present an opinion that has some strong facts to back it up.
Out of all the sports, the NFL has the most turnover in playoff teams - the AFC too.
Heck, last year you had the Jags, Titans and Bills making the playoffs. Since 2010, Every team but the Browns has made the playoffs.
If a poster is going to call people "holier than thou", it is usually fucking nice if they at least present an opinion that has some strong facts to back it up.
Out of all the sports, the NFL has the most turnover in playoff teams - the AFC too.
Every team in the NBA has made the playoffs in the past 6 years except Sacramento and Phoenix . 28 out of 30 teams. What the fuck is your point
You are doing a miserable job defending your POV.
They are still far and away the most talented, and arguably well coached team in the NBA. But they also got pushed to the max by Houston, and who knows what happens if Paul plays game 7.
It's not like they signed LeBron James. They signed Cousins, who from his own lips was not garnering a ton of interest because of his injury.
The Rockets, Celtics, Lakers, 6ers all have the athletes to push the Warriors.