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NFT: Melo-OKC Part Ways

dep026 : 7/6/2018 12:29 pm
Money the reason.
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Can knicks take  
GMEN46 : 7/6/2018 1:14 pm : link
Back any money right now. For example hardaway and baker for Melo we would be taking back like $6mm extra does that work within the cap and then figure we save $2 million when we buy him out?
I believe  
bigbluehoya : 7/6/2018 1:19 pm : link
THJ for Melo works straight up under the cap.

No reason to include Baker. Only a year left and OKC doesn’t want him. They’re trying to win.
RE: Can knicks take  
nygiants16 : 7/6/2018 1:24 pm : link
In comment 14007514 GMEN46 said:
Quote:
Back any money right now. For example hardaway and baker for Melo we would be taking back like $6mm extra does that work within the cap and then figure we save $2 million when we buy him out?


yiu can add burke and williams who are both non guaranteed
...  
christian : 7/6/2018 1:35 pm : link
For the cap experts -- if OKC moved Melo for a package centered on Deng, would that be a cheaper stretch for them?
I can’t see how  
GMEN46 : 7/6/2018 1:40 pm : link
Hardaway straight for Melo works out, aren’t the knicks over the cap?
I assume you guys are talking about taking on his contract  
mfsd : 7/6/2018 1:40 pm : link
then buying him out or something, in a move to save future cap space, right? No way I want that slug anywhere near the young core the Knicks are trying to build
Knicks may have to trade baker  
GMEN46 : 7/6/2018 1:42 pm : link
To a team with cap space for nothing back and offer $5 million in the trade to cover his salary and then free up some cap space then the trade may work.
RE: OKC had to buy him out,  
Keith : 7/6/2018 1:55 pm : link
In comment 14007494 Section331 said:
Quote:
any word on the amount? That would go towards OKC's cap for this year.

Melo was pretty horrible last year, but that may be due to Westbrook being really tough to play with, especially if you're a scorer used to having the ball in your hands. I would think LA would be his next stop.


Um. Nope. Melo was terrible because he's not good at basketball anymore. Nothing to do with Westbrook who made it easier for Melo to get some easier looks. Melo did what Melo has been doing for the past few years. Held the ball for a few seconds and then chucked. That's his game.
Of course  
GMEN46 : 7/6/2018 1:55 pm : link
This is just to buy him out to get rid of Lee hardaway or Noah. If okc stretch him they save $90 million in tax dollars. In order to avoid them stretching him knicks need to keep the money they sent back at a minimum and also help them avoid $9 mill on their cap for the next 3 years.

Lee makes the most sense, if we can move baker to another team to create cap space without sending anyone to OKC. If we rid our selves of baker and Lee does that create enough room for us to take on Melo?

This benefits okc because Lee is actually playable for them for the next 2 years and he is only $3mm higher than Melos stretch. So hey basically have Lee for $3mm more a year for the next 2 years vs. just Melos stretch. Then year 3 they are free of Lee vs. another year of Melo stretch.
i think they definitely try and trade him  
nygiants16 : 7/6/2018 2:34 pm : link
maybe even get an asset to take on an extra year...

no matter what they do they are still in the luxury tax..
What a great trade by the Knicks  
Keith : 7/6/2018 2:41 pm : link
to get rid of that disaster.
He's a basketball cancer  
arniefez : 7/6/2018 2:41 pm : link
He's always been a basketball cancer. There was a time he was also an all star player even though he was never a winning player. Now he's absolutely horrible. It was so much fun to watch him in OKC last year.

He and Dwight Howard are perfect fits for the Lakers with LeBron and Ball what a shit show that will be. Please make it happen Lakers.

Anthony has already infected Porzingis. Taught him every selfish thing about the NBA there is to know. The Knicks would be crazy to let him near their new players.
we broke up a very entertaining Knick team to get him  
gtt350 : 7/6/2018 2:50 pm : link
when was the last time you heard that.
he's a loser
RE: we broke up a very entertaining Knick team to get him  
DennyInDenville : 7/6/2018 3:03 pm : link
In comment 14007569 gtt350 said:
Quote:
when was the last time you heard that.
he's a loser

Only silver lining is that everyone we traded to get Melo was at peak value,with the exception of maybe Mosgov who later got two 1s and a fat deal. I believe Chandler and Gallo peaked here, Chandler is still real good though, and Fat Ray, well, we did the right thing in sending him packing while his value was at its highest ever
RE: we broke up a very entertaining Knick team to get him  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/6/2018 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14007569 gtt350 said:
Quote:
when was the last time you heard that.
he's a loser


Let's not pretend that team was winning anything.

The 53 win team with melo was plenty exciting.
agreed Tommy but we could have tweaked that team instead  
gtt350 : 7/6/2018 10:35 pm : link
of blow it up imho
ten ton  
gtt350 : 7/6/2018 10:36 pm : link
.
Melo's game does not fit with today's NBA  
Vanzetti : 7/7/2018 1:42 pm : link
He can be an instant offense guy on the second unit and give you an extra weapon on offensive possessions in crunch time. That's it. He is not a starting calibre player on a team with championship aspirations.
RE: Melo's game does not fit with today's NBA  
MookGiants : 7/7/2018 2:11 pm : link
In comment 14008034 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
He can be an instant offense guy on the second unit and give you an extra weapon on offensive possessions in crunch time. That's it. He is not a starting calibre player on a team with championship aspirations.


His game fits fine in todays NBA. The problem isn't his game, it's his attitude. He has the skill set to fit in well in todays NBA, but his mind is fucking garbage
His skill set is garbage these days.  
Keith : 7/7/2018 2:43 pm : link
He’s a spot up shooter now who still acts like an all star. He no longer has the ability to score anywhere close to the basket.
RE: Of course  
rich in DC : 7/8/2018 10:20 am : link
In comment 14007536 GMEN46 said:
Quote:
This is just to buy him out to get rid of Lee hardaway or Noah. If okc stretch him they save $90 million in tax dollars. In order to avoid them stretching him knicks need to keep the money they sent back at a minimum and also help them avoid $9 mill on their cap for the next 3 years.

Lee makes the most sense, if we can move baker to another team to create cap space without sending anyone to OKC. If we rid our selves of baker and Lee does that create enough room for us to take on Melo?

This benefits okc because Lee is actually playable for them for the next 2 years and he is only $3mm higher than Melos stretch. So hey basically have Lee for $3mm more a year for the next 2 years vs. just Melos stretch. Then year 3 they are free of Lee vs. another year of Melo stretch.


Remember that by maxing out George and Westbrook, they are going for it now- they are probably NOT looking for a player they can drop in a year or two. Keep in mind that part of their thinking in the Melo dal was they thought they were building their own "big 3."

My thought is that OKC might do a deal where they get a starter and a building block back in the deal. Also remember that OKC added Nerlens Noel in FA. Note that OKC also focused on SG in the draft- but that bth are really longer term projects.

I think that the better offer might be Hardaway and Frank.

George is kind of a floating wing who can post on occasion. Westbrook likes to drive the lane- though he will heave up his share of 3s. If they had a guy who could just hang out on the perimeter and shoot 3s that could allow Westbrook to drive more often.

Hardaway gives them the offensive punch to go with Westbrook and George- and allows Noel and Adams to focus on low post defense and boards- instead of trying to generate offense with them. With OKCs own weakness at G, plus how many solid G their are in the Western Conference, Frank makes a LOT of sense from OKC's perspective- and they may try to get Westbrook some rest with Frank.

The Knicks would of course, immediately waive Melo.

While the idea of Hardaway and Frank for Melo works under the cap, the Knicks MIGHT try and get one of OKCs draftees- but it probably isn't worth forcing the issue.
RE: RE: Of course  
adamg : 7/8/2018 10:32 am : link
In comment 14008351 rich in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 14007536 GMEN46 said:


Quote:


This is just to buy him out to get rid of Lee hardaway or Noah. If okc stretch him they save $90 million in tax dollars. In order to avoid them stretching him knicks need to keep the money they sent back at a minimum and also help them avoid $9 mill on their cap for the next 3 years.

Lee makes the most sense, if we can move baker to another team to create cap space without sending anyone to OKC. If we rid our selves of baker and Lee does that create enough room for us to take on Melo?

This benefits okc because Lee is actually playable for them for the next 2 years and he is only $3mm higher than Melos stretch. So hey basically have Lee for $3mm more a year for the next 2 years vs. just Melos stretch. Then year 3 they are free of Lee vs. another year of Melo stretch.



Remember that by maxing out George and Westbrook, they are going for it now- they are probably NOT looking for a player they can drop in a year or two. Keep in mind that part of their thinking in the Melo dal was they thought they were building their own "big 3."

My thought is that OKC might do a deal where they get a starter and a building block back in the deal. Also remember that OKC added Nerlens Noel in FA. Note that OKC also focused on SG in the draft- but that bth are really longer term projects.

I think that the better offer might be Hardaway and Frank.

George is kind of a floating wing who can post on occasion. Westbrook likes to drive the lane- though he will heave up his share of 3s. If they had a guy who could just hang out on the perimeter and shoot 3s that could allow Westbrook to drive more often.

Hardaway gives them the offensive punch to go with Westbrook and George- and allows Noel and Adams to focus on low post defense and boards- instead of trying to generate offense with them. With OKCs own weakness at G, plus how many solid G their are in the Western Conference, Frank makes a LOT of sense from OKC's perspective- and they may try to get Westbrook some rest with Frank.

The Knicks would of course, immediately waive Melo.

While the idea of Hardaway and Frank for Melo works under the cap, the Knicks MIGHT try and get one of OKCs draftees- but it probably isn't worth forcing the issue.
Why would the Knicks include Frank?
RE: RE: RE: Of course  
rich in DC : 7/8/2018 11:04 am : link
In comment 14008357 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14008351 rich in DC said:


Quote:


In comment 14007536 GMEN46 said:


Quote:


This is just to buy him out to get rid of Lee hardaway or Noah. If okc stretch him they save $90 million in tax dollars. In order to avoid them stretching him knicks need to keep the money they sent back at a minimum and also help them avoid $9 mill on their cap for the next 3 years.

Lee makes the most sense, if we can move baker to another team to create cap space without sending anyone to OKC. If we rid our selves of baker and Lee does that create enough room for us to take on Melo?

This benefits okc because Lee is actually playable for them for the next 2 years and he is only $3mm higher than Melos stretch. So hey basically have Lee for $3mm more a year for the next 2 years vs. just Melos stretch. Then year 3 they are free of Lee vs. another year of Melo stretch.



Remember that by maxing out George and Westbrook, they are going for it now- they are probably NOT looking for a player they can drop in a year or two. Keep in mind that part of their thinking in the Melo dal was they thought they were building their own "big 3."

My thought is that OKC might do a deal where they get a starter and a building block back in the deal. Also remember that OKC added Nerlens Noel in FA. Note that OKC also focused on SG in the draft- but that bth are really longer term projects.

I think that the better offer might be Hardaway and Frank.

George is kind of a floating wing who can post on occasion. Westbrook likes to drive the lane- though he will heave up his share of 3s. If they had a guy who could just hang out on the perimeter and shoot 3s that could allow Westbrook to drive more often.

Hardaway gives them the offensive punch to go with Westbrook and George- and allows Noel and Adams to focus on low post defense and boards- instead of trying to generate offense with them. With OKCs own weakness at G, plus how many solid G their are in the Western Conference, Frank makes a LOT of sense from OKC's perspective- and they may try to get Westbrook some rest with Frank.

The Knicks would of course, immediately waive Melo.

While the idea of Hardaway and Frank for Melo works under the cap, the Knicks MIGHT try and get one of OKCs draftees- but it probably isn't worth forcing the issue.

Why would the Knicks include Frank?


Cap purposes. Hardaway for Melo doesn't work under the cap.
The Knicks should send OKC last years lottery pick  
arniefez : 7/8/2018 11:23 am : link
so they can waive Anthony? The NBA is a screwed up league.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Of course  
adamg : 7/8/2018 11:28 am : link
In comment 14008372 rich in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 14008357 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 14008351 rich in DC said:


Quote:


In comment 14007536 GMEN46 said:


Quote:


This is just to buy him out to get rid of Lee hardaway or Noah. If okc stretch him they save $90 million in tax dollars. In order to avoid them stretching him knicks need to keep the money they sent back at a minimum and also help them avoid $9 mill on their cap for the next 3 years.

Lee makes the most sense, if we can move baker to another team to create cap space without sending anyone to OKC. If we rid our selves of baker and Lee does that create enough room for us to take on Melo?

This benefits okc because Lee is actually playable for them for the next 2 years and he is only $3mm higher than Melos stretch. So hey basically have Lee for $3mm more a year for the next 2 years vs. just Melos stretch. Then year 3 they are free of Lee vs. another year of Melo stretch.



Remember that by maxing out George and Westbrook, they are going for it now- they are probably NOT looking for a player they can drop in a year or two. Keep in mind that part of their thinking in the Melo dal was they thought they were building their own "big 3."

My thought is that OKC might do a deal where they get a starter and a building block back in the deal. Also remember that OKC added Nerlens Noel in FA. Note that OKC also focused on SG in the draft- but that bth are really longer term projects.

I think that the better offer might be Hardaway and Frank.

George is kind of a floating wing who can post on occasion. Westbrook likes to drive the lane- though he will heave up his share of 3s. If they had a guy who could just hang out on the perimeter and shoot 3s that could allow Westbrook to drive more often.

Hardaway gives them the offensive punch to go with Westbrook and George- and allows Noel and Adams to focus on low post defense and boards- instead of trying to generate offense with them. With OKCs own weakness at G, plus how many solid G their are in the Western Conference, Frank makes a LOT of sense from OKC's perspective- and they may try to get Westbrook some rest with Frank.

The Knicks would of course, immediately waive Melo.

While the idea of Hardaway and Frank for Melo works under the cap, the Knicks MIGHT try and get one of OKCs draftees- but it probably isn't worth forcing the issue.

Why would the Knicks include Frank?



Cap purposes. Hardaway for Melo doesn't work under the cap.


I'd rather keep both Frank and THJ in that case. There's no one else we could include?
Melo's game is fine...  
Italianju : 7/8/2018 12:42 pm : link
in todays NBA. Problem is that Melo is old and is not the same player he was in his 20's. If melo was 26 he would still be one of the top scorers in the league.

As for sending them Frank, pass. Its not worth it to dump THJR. You are trading two assets (THJR is not a bad player) just to save money that you dont know you even need. Im find trading THJR, but im not giving up other assets. They want THJR and lee, great, but that doesnt really save them money and thats the issue. I mean THJR and Lee would be much better fits for them then melo at this point, but again they want to save money.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Of course  
djm : 7/8/2018 12:50 pm : link
In comment 14008372 rich in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 14008357 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 14008351 rich in DC said:


Quote:


In comment 14007536 GMEN46 said:


Quote:


This is just to buy him out to get rid of Lee hardaway or Noah. If okc stretch him they save $90 million in tax dollars. In order to avoid them stretching him knicks need to keep the money they sent back at a minimum and also help them avoid $9 mill on their cap for the next 3 years.

Lee makes the most sense, if we can move baker to another team to create cap space without sending anyone to OKC. If we rid our selves of baker and Lee does that create enough room for us to take on Melo?

This benefits okc because Lee is actually playable for them for the next 2 years and he is only $3mm higher than Melos stretch. So hey basically have Lee for $3mm more a year for the next 2 years vs. just Melos stretch. Then year 3 they are free of Lee vs. another year of Melo stretch.



Remember that by maxing out George and Westbrook, they are going for it now- they are probably NOT looking for a player they can drop in a year or two. Keep in mind that part of their thinking in the Melo dal was they thought they were building their own "big 3."

My thought is that OKC might do a deal where they get a starter and a building block back in the deal. Also remember that OKC added Nerlens Noel in FA. Note that OKC also focused on SG in the draft- but that bth are really longer term projects.

I think that the better offer might be Hardaway and Frank.

George is kind of a floating wing who can post on occasion. Westbrook likes to drive the lane- though he will heave up his share of 3s. If they had a guy who could just hang out on the perimeter and shoot 3s that could allow Westbrook to drive more often.

Hardaway gives them the offensive punch to go with Westbrook and George- and allows Noel and Adams to focus on low post defense and boards- instead of trying to generate offense with them. With OKCs own weakness at G, plus how many solid G their are in the Western Conference, Frank makes a LOT of sense from OKC's perspective- and they may try to get Westbrook some rest with Frank.

The Knicks would of course, immediately waive Melo.

While the idea of Hardaway and Frank for Melo works under the cap, the Knicks MIGHT try and get one of OKCs draftees- but it probably isn't worth forcing the issue.

Why would the Knicks include Frank?



Cap purposes. Hardaway for Melo doesn't work under the cap.


Are you serious? You’re gonna dump frank just to rid us of the most overstated contract? Hardaway is a decent player wtf man.
Further proof  
djm : 7/8/2018 12:51 pm : link
That cap economics and fans don’t fucking mix. Sorry. They don’t.
Further proof the NBA CBA is a total mess  
arniefez : 7/8/2018 2:10 pm : link
Hopefully the league is wiling to do what it takes to get it fixed.
RE: Further proof the NBA CBA is a total mess  
nygiants16 : 7/8/2018 2:13 pm : link
In comment 14008457 arniefez said:
Quote:
Hopefully the league is wiling to do what it takes to get it fixed.


the knicks would save 30 million off next years cap and be able to add 2 max contracts
RE: RE: Further proof the NBA CBA is a total mess  
rich in DC : 7/8/2018 3:20 pm : link
In comment 14008460 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14008457 arniefez said:


Quote:


Hopefully the league is wiling to do what it takes to get it fixed.



the knicks would save 30 million off next years cap and be able to add 2 max contracts


Ding, ding, ding. This is the correct answer. Thanks for playing djm. Better luck next time.
Thanks for playing ?  
djm : 7/8/2018 7:37 pm : link
You left out that we just lost a second year lottery pick and a solid shooting guard and didn’t even sign anyone yet.

You’re an absolute fool if you run frank and hardaway out of here without a bird in hand.

Ding my ass that’s lunacy.
And Donnie Walsh pulled the same crap  
djm : 7/8/2018 7:41 pm : link
About ten years ago. We just had to dump Randolph and Crawford for jack shit but they freed up money, great. Then they got even more desperate and packaged a draft pick to dump Jeffries.

How’d that work out? Zach Randolph was a boon to Memphis and Crawford won 6th man awards.

Don’t. Do. Anything. Desperate!! No more!!
Hardaway had one year here  
djm : 7/8/2018 7:44 pm : link
And played pretty well. He can average 17+ per game and play average defense. He gets assists and rebounds. He’s not even remotely close to this overpaid albertross that the money talkies on here insist on. Relax already. Let this team figure things out one year at a time. We don’t have to do anything right now.

If an absolute beast can be had and hardaway stops us from signing him as a fa ok fine, you can all have your pound of salary cap flesh that gets you all excited. Until then, no more stupid ass moves. This team doesn’t need to panic. Not yet.
We need to be ADDING  
djm : 7/8/2018 7:47 pm : link
Not subtracting for cap space or whatever. ADD talent. No two for ones. Deals centered on dumping the good out with the bad just to give you all the checkbook warm and fuzzies. We aren’t there yet. Fucks sake... you never learn.
RE: RE: Further proof the NBA CBA is a total mess  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/8/2018 7:50 pm : link
In comment 14008460 nygiants16 said:
Quote:

the knicks would save 30 million off next years cap and be able to add 2 max contracts

Didn’t we play this game before?

Reminder of what we won: 1 healthy season of Amare. One playoff series win. And 6 1/2 years of Melo ISOs.

Reminder of what we lost: @300 games.
donnie walsh did it half ass  
nygiants16 : 7/8/2018 8:00 pm : link
he traded draft pocks and had nothing on the roster to attract, he asdumed new york alone would work...

you go into the off season room for 2 maxes and kp and if knox shows something you are going to attract a pair of players..

tgere are already reports of irving and butler wanting to team up...

Ill say it again  
djm : 7/8/2018 8:01 pm : link
Only make that kind of move if an absolute STUD is standing at the alter and even then, you better have a plan in place that allows the Knicks to field a legit 7 deep roster.


Dumping frank with hardaway at this very moment is lunacy. It’s probably lunacy at any moment.

We’re fine. Keep on adding talent. Worry about cap space when that fa player is available and space is needed. Next year they will have room. Year after even more room. Relax.
you dont think these conversations are not happening alredy?  
nygiants16 : 7/8/2018 8:04 pm : link
and you can go into off seasons with just 1 max, these guys want to team up, why do you think knicms are not offering kp an extension yet?
and explain how it is not being patient?  
nygiants16 : 7/8/2018 8:06 pm : link
you are not giving up the 19 pick, you are not giving up kp, you are giving up frank, lee and hardaway 2 of those players have no future here and 1 who is questionable at this very moment...

RE: donnie walsh did it half ass  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/8/2018 8:09 pm : link
In comment 14008586 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
he traded draft pocks and had nothing on the roster to attract, he asdumed new york alone would work...

you go into the off season room for 2 maxes and kp and if knox shows something you are going to attract a pair of players..

tgere are already reports of irving and butler wanting to team up...

So a raw 19 year old with 1 summer leauge game under his belt is now something we’re going to bank on as a big attraction for free agents? Plus a legit talent coming off a major injury possibly missing the entire upcoming season. That’s the big selling points you expect to attract talent with?
RE: RE: donnie walsh did it half ass  
nygiants16 : 7/8/2018 8:13 pm : link
In comment 14008600 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 14008586 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


he traded draft pocks and had nothing on the roster to attract, he asdumed new york alone would work...

you go into the off season room for 2 maxes and kp and if knox shows something you are going to attract a pair of players..

tgere are already reports of irving and butler wanting to team up...



So a raw 19 year old with 1 summer leauge game under his belt is now something we’re going to bank on as a big attraction for free agents? Plus a legit talent coming off a major injury possibly missing the entire upcoming season. That’s the big selling points you expect to attract talent with?


if knox has a good year i said...

you forget to add you have a coach that is well respected around the league...

you will have another top pick added...

and kp will absolutely be a selling point, even if he plays 20 games he will absolutely be a selling point..

and having 2 maxes is an absokute selling point because 2 guys can team up...

if miami only has room for 2 the big 3 does not happen in miami, wade himself said they went to miami because they had room for 3...
.  
arcarsenal : 7/8/2018 8:15 pm : link
Do people really want Melo back? He's shot. No fucking thank you. The Knicks did the right thing by getting rid of him.
no one is coming here by themself  
nygiants16 : 7/8/2018 8:15 pm : link
even with kp here, no one is coming here by themself
RE: .  
nygiants16 : 7/8/2018 8:15 pm : link
In comment 14008606 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Do people really want Melo back? He's shot. No fucking thank you. The Knicks did the right thing by getting rid of him.


the trade would be strictly to get more cap room for next year...

knicks would immediately cut him
People are advocating trading for melo  
Keith : 7/8/2018 8:16 pm : link
and then waiving him. Strictly as a cap saving move for next offseason.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/8/2018 8:17 pm : link
Why would OKC do that though?
RE: .  
nygiants16 : 7/8/2018 8:17 pm : link
In comment 14008611 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Why would OKC do that though?


they wouldnt this whole conversation is pontless...

the knly reason they would is if they thought lee and hardaway helped them
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 7/8/2018 8:19 pm : link
In comment 14008613 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14008611 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Why would OKC do that though?



they wouldnt this whole conversation is pontless...

the knly reason they would is if they thought lee and hardaway helped them


Ah, so half of a thread was wasted on a pointless hypothetical. Sounds like a Knicks thread alright.. hah.
RE: RE: RE: .  
nygiants16 : 7/8/2018 8:22 pm : link
In comment 14008616 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14008613 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 14008611 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Why would OKC do that though?



they wouldnt this whole conversation is pontless...

the knly reason they would is if they thought lee and hardaway helped them



Ah, so half of a thread was wasted on a pointless hypothetical. Sounds like a Knicks thread alright.. hah.


pretty much, kind of mad at myself for getting involved but i got 40 mins to kill before game starts
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