I was hesitant to bring this to BBI, but there are a lot of people here with knowledge about how to handle these situations. I have been working in restaurants for about a decade after my sales office was closed. At first I really took an interest in food and liquor and have been doing it at quite a high level. My knowledge about this stuff has comstantly been enhanced with every move Ive made. I have worked every type of party, am able to confidently talk about any spirit (except sherry, lol) and I have saved multiple places from dealing with an allergy fuck up because I pay attention to all the tickets. I am very good at my job but dont want to manage a place. I am not into the hours being my career and the ceiling is too low. I want to do things at a higher level.
A couple years ago, I thought I was out with a potential POS sales gig where I would have a monstrous territory and strong relationship with the director, but that fell thru. Since then I have been interviewing for other sales gigs and lately got very interested in event planning. In fact I have a 2nd interview on Tuesday on location. So I took a job that had me working 4 days a week so I had M-W off to interview and job hunt.
The guy that hired me, hired me because I was a man and would be the only male on the floor. The money is solid for the hours I work, but being the only male on the floor, he is making an example of me and it has been getting worse every single week. Many think it is because he tried the same shit with a couple of the girls and he made them cry during a shift. He blames me for things that are not my responsibility and I have not talked back, just apologized and went about my job. Last night, when I was done and just changed, he pulled me aside for "a talk" during which he completely cuts me apart in front of co-workers and in ftont of guests because of an emailed complaint he got for a table I know I didnt work. I respectfully told him that wasnt my table but he insisted it was and that if it happened again he would fire me. I asked him if he could show me the closed out check because it would have my name on it and he told me he needed me to "just shut up and listen."
At that point I went from nervous to quietly livid. I know there is something I did to piss him off (like maybe show him up by learning the job so quickly) or that he has nobody else to put the fear of God into because of how the other girls react. Its to the point that others acknowledge it happening and now it seems he is willing to just pull anything (founded or not) out of his ass. Im prepared to take precautiins to cover my ass at this point.I wanted to know if anybody can add to or alter this list:
1) I wad planning on recording any other 1 on 1 conversation he had with me. Should I tell him that I am doing so?
2) Calling unemployment on Monday to see if I can chip thru any potential red tape I could have to deal with should I get terminated. Is this a tactic anybody has done before?
3) If he starts writing me up for horse shit, I am debating not signing it because that can demonstrate cause and prevent me from getting unemployment. Note: I started this job about a month ago but I have been consistently employed for over 5 years.
4) How logical is it to go directly to HR to discuss the issue? I understand that this is a scorched Earth move and that I might as well clean out my locker immediately, but I legitimately have been treated unfairly. Ideally, I would like to get another job, train while Im still on the floor earning normal money, then go to them and tell them I am quitting out-roght because of his approach and tact
I have a great resume. I can get a job rather quickly and I have other career prospects. But finding a job in Philly is very tought midsummer...real opportunities dont really happen until mid August. But its to the point I am having dreams every night with him in it. I am not going to act oit, but last night startled me and I dont want to be unprepared.
Any and all advice would help. I dont expect much....Philly is an at will employer. But maybe there is something out there.
Tonight while I was starting to do the money, he started getting after me about a table that hadn't been cleared. Mind you, he had been drinking for about an hour and a half. He chastised me for leaving water glasses on the table when they had been closed out for 10 mins. This was at a time we didnt need the tables. I stopped what I was doing and came walking out. The table, the members' names I had remembered only from serving them a week ago, had just gone outside to smoke. They came back inside and sat back down, taking sips of their water. I looked at him as if to say, "what now?" And he said nothing and walked away. I laughed to myself and went back to my work. The bartender saw the whole thing amd asked if he apologized. Obv he didnt.
Ive been looking for a job the whole night and at this point it is what it is. I wont quit. He has to fire me. Then I will go to HR and let them know what happened, not expecting anything from it, and then open a UE claim. It is what it is. Unfortunately as someone earlier mentioned, restaurant managers are a notch above DMV employess, but also usually drunks or drug addicts.
I'll be fine, but at this point, some talk back is in order. Respectful, but pointed.
If this is the case I would suggest either going to your manager’s supervisor and if he is the head guy contacting HR in regards to pervasive harassment. I have been in the restaurant and now corporate dining for 30 plus years. My current position requires me to take this type of training’s yearly to avoid such issues. The bottom line is this guy either has a hard on for you or is simply a bully. If I were you I would contact HR that is what they are there for. I realize it is not a comfortable thing to do and it seems you are worried about retaliation in getting fired but that would open up a whole other can of worms for this guy and the company if that happened.
Document everything all encounters and if at all possible have witnesses, coworkers and or guest’s that can confirm what is going on HR will ask if this is possible.
That’s all I got hope it helps, some people are simply not meant to manage people.
Personally, I love this idea, especially doing it in front of the other workers. BUT, BUT, BUT, don't do it unless you have another job set up.
- don't like the idea of recording someone's conversation without them consenting both from a ethical and legal standpoint. Looks like in PA this would actually be illegal according to state law. Even if it was legal, I think it makes you come across as sketchy and less credible.
- instead of recording conversations I would write down notes of your conversations and interactions with your boss so you have a record. Stick to the facts.
- I would avoid conversations with your boss unless necessary.
- if he is really harping on you I would just do what he wants until you find another job. Stand your ground in a polite manner if he is being disrespectful, but don't think HR will be much help and it doesn't sound like confronting him directly will be much help.
Document other confrontations too (if you can prove he's being biased against you)
Look for other jobs
At least if you are on record with HR about this it will make it much harder for him to fire you. Do not quit.
1. Start looking. Seems a perfect time for a change. Bullshit to be treated like that, regardless of what you do.
2. Hang in there. Be professional. CYA. Head down. Maintain your income, and control.
3. Come up with ways to subtly fuck with the guy. Things that either make him look bad or feel uncomfortable. Whether or not you can witness the effects of your mayhem. Nothing illegal. And share that plan/knowledge with no one. Self-contained. Maybe another BBI thread to get ideas lol
4. Good luck! Hope you get something going that’s a better situation soon.
So, you’d be breaking the law to “secretly” record your boss.
Now, here in New York, you don’t need that permission.
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it creates auto protection for you since he now will have to document everything. And if you are good at your job and are not insubordinate there will be no evidence.
Check your company guidebook on recording others. If its not allowed, dont do it.
I would say keep working there until you find your next job. Its always better to be employed while looking than unemployed.
Yea and this is in response to pretty much everybody....I have been dealt a shit sandwich. I pretty much have been look all last night when I got off thru today. I figured that was really the only route.
Jim, are you sure? I mean they can probably just can me gor nothing no?
It so hard to say without knowing the size of your company, etc. Mine is large, publicly traded, etc. Fair work environments is SUPER important to them. Here, if you had a fair case, meaning showed that he was hostile to you without reason AND had a witness and your performance was satisfactory, we almost CAN'T fire you. Must be validated (with proof) another way.
Although Vanzetti is right that HR is there to protect the company, part of that is avoiding wrongful termination litigation. That protects your job to some degree, even though you are not a protected class.
IMO, go to HR with YOUR proof and say your concerns FIRST. If you have solid proof then the onus is on him to document everything. Not only that but he will have to be civil with you or he will be dinged with retaliation. Definitely find another job in the meanwhile and leave on as best terms as possible. Remember that HR files are classified and won't be shared outside.
My inclination is to go straight to the owner and lay out this guy’s mishandling of the job, berating you for no good reason, etc. Don’t dismiss his drinking on the job as well, no employer wants to tolerate that. However, because you mentioned an ‘HR’ dept, this is likely a large corporate restaurant, and you don’t have any access to the owner.
When a mgr has it out for you, as he apparently does, you’re in a tough spot. As much as I would like to screw the guy over, the advice above to take him aside, quietly stand your ground in a respectful way I think is best. Someone mentioned not burning bridges, and that could not be more relevant. As much as you’d like to hurt this guy, try to resist, and stay employed until you find another job.
My inclination is to go straight to the owner and lay out this guy’s mishandling of the job, berating you for no good reason, etc. Don’t dismiss his drinking on the job as well, no employer wants to tolerate that. However, because you mentioned an ‘HR’ dept, this is likely a large corporate restaurant, and you don’t have any access to the owner.
When a mgr has it out for you, as he apparently does, you’re in a tough spot. As much as I would like to screw the guy over, the advice above to take him aside, quietly stand your ground in a respectful way I think is best. Someone mentioned not burning bridges, and that could not be more relevant. As much as you’d like to hurt this guy, try to resist, and stay employed until you find another job.
Its part of a restaurant group that is local to Philly. They have like 11 bars/restaurants in the city alone.
I have been taking the tact of just looking for another gig while trying to hold this one as long as possible. So I am obviously in agreement with everybody here. I have debated going to the owner, but going over the head of someone is not the move you want to do unless Im already prepared to move on. Like I had mentioned, I would love notging more than to train at a new gig and then finish a shift, collect my money, then tell him that that night was last night and to go have a heart attack and die. But I prob would give him notice.
I found out he was a bartender for one year before getting this gig because they have fired 3 GMs in 3 years. So he might be doomed himself. What he lets go on under his watch at this place is nothing short of ridiculous. Plates getting dropped with no silverware on the table. Waitresses who dont know the menu at all. Last night a Server who wanted to leave, took the order of the last table that was in her section, then transferred it to me and said she was done. Thing is, she forgot to ring an entire 1st course and we didnt find out that it happened until the kitchen had closed. Then she was outside drinking with our boss.
Literally, fuck this place and fuck him. Absolute joke of an operation. Last night I jotted down every essential aspect of proper Front of House service that is completely ignored by his staff that I have to spend my time catching up on during my shift. Like when our cute but completely moronic hostesses seat guests at a table that is completely unset. Or when food comes out to be shared and there is no utensil for doing so. Or my personal favorite, when Servers bring out the wrong drink to a table, the table flags me down and the Server is nowhere to be found because they are on their phones in the shitter.
I spend all my free time looking for gigs, but like I said its slim pickens right now. Just have to wait and see or possibly have to deal with unemployment.
Whatever you do, don't go to HR. You'll be labeled a malcontent.
I know this and thats why I would be inclined to not sign it before having a meeting with someone either in HR or ownership with him. If they fire me, fine. But I want him under watch afterwards at the very least.
If he is drinking on the job with female employees, who are consequently negligent in their duties,that is something HR listens to.
All the other stuff you listed was a bit too nebulous for HR. This you can hit him with. But if you do it, no half measures. Hit him like LT going after the QB. If the HR person starts taking his side, you say, "Well, I'm going to have to call the owner. We can't have a work environment where alcohol and sex are interfering with the ability to do the job." Just keep repeating those phrases: alcohol, sexual inappropriateness and interfering with doing the job. No long story. Just those words over and over again. HR people are trained to respond to those words. And then start mentioning "retaliation." And you have not come into HR earlier because you feared retaliation but that the drinking and sexual inappropriateness has reached a breaking point that you had no choice. Doesn't matter if you are exaggerating. HR does not care about the boss being mean or unfair or hurting feelings. They do care about alcohol, sex, and retaliation. Because those words all scream "Lawsuit."
See manh, I guess thats why the HR route was a consideration. The exec chef, sous and several others have apparently said during meetings with ownership that nobody has a better knowledge of the menu than I do (whoch was nice to hear), but Ive only been there for just over a month. I dont know if they wpuld gorce me on to another location that doesnt need help.
HR is worthless. They aren’t here for you. They are here for the company. Remember that.
The only problem with that manh is that the group's managers are fairly tightly knit and talk. Especially in restaurants are the typical rules about not badmouthing workers completely ignored. He will tell the next manager whatever he wants and then I would be dealing with the same thing again.
But thanks for the idea. Im not being stubborn, its just one of those things. What he might also do is cut my shifts to one or two per week and try and force me to quit. Tomorrow will tell a lot because thats when I get my schedule for next week.
Look for a new job. Leave this job when you find a new job. Done.
Look for a new job. Leave this job when you find a new job. Done.
Im totally resigned to that. I applied to 3 in the last 24 hours. I was just looking for a solution in case I lost the gig before I had something else OTHER than filing for UE.
When you are terminated for cause, or misconduct, you may not be eligible for unemployment benefits. Misconduct includes; stealing, lying, failing a drug or alcohol test, falsifying records, deliberately violating company policy or rules, sexual harassment, and other serious actions related to your employment.
Even conduct outside of the office, such as a problematic social media post on a personal account or committing a crime, can disqualify you from receiving unemployment benefits. In some states, being fired for misconduct bars you from receiving unemployment benefits permanently; in others, it only prevents you from receiving compensation for a limited period.
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Yea,Im well read on UE at this point. I can even qualify if I quit and cite "mental anguish" (like a lot of younger women in restaurants they dont like any more choose to do) but you risk being scarred for life because word of a company in this industry paying the claim because you just didnt want to work any more (summer time) spreads wider than Tom Brady's geigh ass cheeks. Lol.
My main concern is getting chopped down to 1 or 2 shifts per week and thats why I would call UE and see how Id get around that.
A Boss , on the other hand is interested in the bottom line. What the OP complained about isn't petty nonsense. Reprimanding employees in front of customers is bad for business and drinking on duty should be a firing offense. The big boss/owner may already know this guy is a shitbird and the next negative thing he hears may push him out the door. Back when I lived in Jersey, I had a friend who was selling timeshares. His supervisor was harassing him. He went to the supe's boss and complained. The big boss told him to be patient, changes were being made in the very near future. At the end of the week, the supervisor was gone.
And that's that. Did me today. Tried to write me up for the complaint incident. I said I wouldnt without seeing the slip. He insisted that if I dont sign the write up, I lose my job. I told him it is unreasonable to ask me to sign something acknowledging wtong doing I was unaware of. He told me to "get the fuck out of here." I told him that I had known he had had it out for me for weeks at which point he shouted me down and to get out of his buikding because I dont work there any more.
I grabbed my bags and left. He sent me a text later stating I was no longer permitted on the property, even as a guest. I sent a "lol" back.
Whatever, unemployment may take some time but I knew it was coming.
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is good luck, Chopper. Post back what eventually happens.
And that's that. Did me today. Tried to write me up for the complaint incident. I said I wouldnt without seeing the slip. He insisted that if I dont sign the write up, I lose my job. I told him it is unreasonable to ask me to sign something acknowledging wtong doing I was unaware of. He told me to "get the fuck out of here." I told him that I had known he had had it out for me for weeks at which point he shouted me down and to get out of his buikding because I dont work there any more.
I grabbed my bags and left. He sent me a text later stating I was no longer permitted on the property, even as a guest. I sent a "lol" back.
Whatever, unemployment may take some time but I knew it was coming.
I know he’s a big man but I’d have slugged that fat fuck right in the face. You took the high road and got a few more paychecks knowing what was coming. You win. You’ll be able to collect, depending on your state it shouldn’t been an issue at all. Best of luck, with your experience you’ll be back working whenever you want.
1. If this is a decent sized company, they are not going to be happy to find out that the manager is drinking on the job. Find a way to record this if you can.
2. In the foodservice industry, you have a lot of asshole restaurant managers. This is another reason why so many places go out of business. Find out if this company has another location where you can work.
3. Restaurant jobs are a dime a dozen. Try to find a high end steak house. They tend to be more professional and the tips are much better.
And steakhouse jobs in this city are impossible to get unless you mean a shitty one like Del Frisco's.
I was frustrated a few months ago looking, but landed the perfect job. Keep positive.
Youve obviously never worked in restaurants. A restaurant is a GM's little fiefdom and he has nobody to report to really unless profits dip or unless there are MASS complaints about what he is doing. The rest of the staff are basically early 20s girls who dont work as many shifts in a row as me and as I said, have reacted poorly to his scolding. It is what it is, but this place is not frequented by the types of diners who are going to write a poor review based on service. Its a yound peoples spot and I had been sending out resumes for a few weeks now.
This guy wont get in trouble unless a ton of bad reviews come in or he starts losing money because of running out of product (virtually impossible unless youre an idiot).
Well, you mentioned that he yelled at you after he had started drinking. He can't decide he's done working, have a few drinks, then decide he's back on the clock. It doesn't work like that.
My friend moonlighted there to help pay for a Summer vacation. Then stayed on an extra few months to pay for next year's vacation!
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He decides hes done working and then starts having drinks at the bar or outside with other co-workers. I'm not going that route.
Well, you mentioned that he yelled at you after he had started drinking. He can't decide he's done working, have a few drinks, then decide he's back on the clock. It doesn't work like that.
I worked in many restaurants in my youth/adolescence, and every single one that had a bar the manager, head cook, and others were always there drinking, on the clock, off the clock didn't matter, once their "jobs" were basically done.
the rest of the staff would still be there working, cleaning up, prepping whatever prep needed to be done for the next day, cashing out, etc. but they'd be drinking, what chopper describes does not surprise me one bit.
My friend moonlighted there to help pay for a Summer vacation. Then stayed on an extra few months to pay for next year's vacation!
Good... another vote for a steakhouse. Chopper, this is the route to go. You will need to dress nicer but like I said earlier the work environment will be more professional.
I have plenty of friends in the industry and most of them "drink" after hours when their work is done so I get that its common. But once you start barking orders or screaming at employees its a whole new ballgame. In fact, I would have escalated things with him (professionally) during one of these occasions as at no point would he ever be in the right.
Glad you don't have to deal with this anymore but you may very well come across it again. I'd stick up for yourself, again, professionally, but you have to do it. Fuck these people.
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In comment 14011402 chopperhatch said:
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He decides hes done working and then starts having drinks at the bar or outside with other co-workers. I'm not going that route.
Well, you mentioned that he yelled at you after he had started drinking. He can't decide he's done working, have a few drinks, then decide he's back on the clock. It doesn't work like that.
I worked in many restaurants in my youth/adolescence, and every single one that had a bar the manager, head cook, and others were always there drinking, on the clock, off the clock didn't matter, once their "jobs" were basically done.
the rest of the staff would still be there working, cleaning up, prepping whatever prep needed to be done for the next day, cashing out, etc. but they'd be drinking, what chopper describes does not surprise me one bit.
Pj you nailed it. Its a main reason why I cant take some of the people who work above me seriously any more. Now dont get me wrong, when Im closing the place and its just me and the bartender cleaning and breaking down the room, the bartender might pour me a shot or two and I will sip a beer while Im working. But generally not when there are guests still in the building, food is being prepared or what have you. Its the closer's privilege...I prob wont make it to the bar in time, so I get a couple while I finish up.
At this fucking place, I watched my co-workers rush thru their side work, come to the bar for free drinks and take them outside to the patio where they would booze for the last hour and a half. I would have to wait for them to get up before bringing in the furniture which kept me there longer and its not like they would help me bring anything in, so it added 20 mins to any shift that happened. 20 mins I really didnt get paid for.
All told, Im kinda relieved I dont have to go back there. Everything is paid for this month which is good, but I have to live like a monk before I start receiving UE checks. But I think I am focusing on higher gigs. Maybe only the perfect restaurant gig will do.
I have plenty of friends in the industry and most of them "drink" after hours when their work is done so I get that its common. But once you start barking orders or screaming at employees its a whole new ballgame. In fact, I would have escalated things with him (professionally) during one of these occasions as at no point would he ever be in the right.
Glad you don't have to deal with this anymore but you may very well come across it again. I'd stick up for yourself, again, professionally, but you have to do it. Fuck these people.
Oh Im definitely reaching out to HR to let them know what they have going on there.
I don't believe you can be barred from a property unless you did something to warrant it and that he filed a complaint with the police to have you barred from the premises. Or if this is something you'd have signed while working there - which is highly unlikely
Once your employment ends, the manager's control of you ceases to exist. Any jurisdiction of you being on the property lies with the police.
Honestly, if you wanted to, you could be a real dick and threaten legal action for both the manner in which you were fired, the circumstances of it and the subsequent threat for you not to set foot on the property again.
Likely wouldn't give you anything but personal satisfaction, but you could be a thorn in that jackasses side of so wished.