NFT: Dog owners: invisible fences; inhumane? (long)

We used an off-brand also for, over time, four Shar-Peis and then our 14 year-old goldendoodle who's so well trained we don't have (or need) any fence now that we've retired to Florida.

like a treat or something when she minds her boundaries?

Like yours, but our new house has no fencing, just the invisible fence. At first our dog was like yours, very nervous about where his boundaries were, so he’d stay on or near our patio. I’d say after a few months he got more comfortable and ventured out further, but never close to the boundary. After a year, we felt confident he wouldn’t run, so we took the collar off. He rarely goes to the front yard, only when one of us are there, and won’t leave the top of the driveway. He’ll use most of the backyard, but will stay about 5 feet away from the line.

The end goal is the safety of the dog, the public, and your peace of mind. They usually have settings on strength of shock where I've never found that the lowest setting doesn't work, and I had a pretty large dog (60 pounds).

Get the dog involved and run around with her again with the beeps on. We alternated until only the beep was understood. I would walk the dog on the leash towards the beep and then immediately walk her back once the sound was heard. This could be confusing with the leash but it's worth a shot. I definitely wouldn't give up yet.

worked well, didn’t feel like it was inhumane but I see where you are coming from. Your dog will be fine and will probably take some time for it to be comfortable going outside in the front yard.

Personally I wouldn’t do it again from a peace of mind standpoint. Our dog was great with it 98% of the time but he was a bully breed and was able to go through it on the highest setting if he was enticed enough (usually another dog) so I was never comfortable with him beating outside without me present, which basically defeats he puspose of the fence.

If I ever get another dog, a physical fence will be a requirement.

did Michael Vick have?

Training takes literally a week. Yes, the dog will be freaked out at beginning but they learn the boundries very quickly (collar sounds buzz as get closer). Warning: Big dogs with a head of steam that are not well trained will run thru it at times. Its not inhumane...how silly. It in fact gives the dog a lot of freedom as you can let it out of the house anytime you want and not worry about running away or getting hit by car, etc.

After a year or so, you don't even need to put the collar on as the dog is used to its boundries.

Not even sure where my dog's collar is anymore...somewhere in garage I guess.

and I do use treats in the training only now if she gets off the front steps she'll take 5 or 6 steps and sit down. I don't want to pull her toward the property line, so I try and coax her there. She is smart enough to know that's where the shock happened.

And she was always pretty diva-ish about treats to begin with but she liked the small training teats and now when I show her the training treat she just looks away giving me a look that says "those treats suck, you're going to get me to eat one so you can shock me" and doesn't even want anything to do with the treats.

I'll stick with it a few more days.

a handful of days isn’t enough time, IMO. Your the master, as corny as that sounds. Your dog will realize sooner or later that you’ve set a new boundary for her and will adjust.

fences. If your dog has anxiety issues, the fence will just make things worse.

Should probably get advice from a certified dog behavior specialist.

"it worked great for my dog". Every breed is different and even dogs within the breed. I have a dog that is very skittish by nature and of you yell or stomp you foot or anything negative he gets really scared. I think you need to know your dog. Hopefully, your dog will be like others and start venturing a little more on your lawn but stay within the boundaries. My dog is definitely different. When I saw come he freezes up because I used to say come when he went to the bathroom in the house so he could see or if I am telling him to come when the garbage men drive by (he's a herding dog so he goes crazy with stuff like that). It was mostly done in a negative way so that is what he knows. It is hard to break a bad habit with him like that. Now, if the garbage men come I just say get in your cage and he is great but if I say come he just stands there and sometimes lays down because he feels he is in trouble.

He took off on me one day down the street and headed right for a major higheay. Ironically, he jumped out of my truck when we pulled up to dog training class because next to the place was a fenced in property with a guard dog that started barking and spooked him. At the time I had one of those extending leashes with a hard plastic handle. When he jumped out of the trucm he ripped the leash right out of my hand because it wasn't long enough and I didn't want to basically hang the dog and mess up his neck. When I tried to get him I kept yelling come. It didn't matter because the hard plastic handle kept hitting the ground and spooking him more. He was basically trying to run away from the noise but obviously couldn't because it was attached to him.

I chased him all the way down the road and my heart dropped. I looked to run straight on the highway. I ran to the end of the block and realized he ran onto this property but they had a front fence. He was good. The ppastic wasn't making the noise anymore hitting the pavement. I got him. I really thought he was dead.

From now on instead of saying come I just say sit and he sits. He's fine. I used to be nervous with him getting out of the house. He listens to me but only me. He does not listen to my wife or mother. So, I was always worried he'd get out with them. I started taking him on the front lawn and he'd get nervous and just head right for the garage or front door. It is a relief. When any door is open he will not go outside of it unless it is the back door. He learned very well.

My advice to you is get to know your dog. I'm sure you already do so you probably have the answers already without having to ask us. You know what gets through to your dog and what doesn't. Being positive in the training seems to work better than being negative most of the time so it makes sense that the first time or 2 or dog is getting in trouble but doesn't really understand why yet. So, instead of learning your dog is just playing it safe. At some point I'm sure your dog will start the leaening process again by slowly expanding her boundaries. My dog would be different though.

Dog was timid at first then learned the boundaries and got more comfortable. Give it some time.

When we got our first lab from a local Lab Rescue in ’97, they had us sign a document agreeing that we would never use an invisible fence, because they considered them inhumane. So I'm sure that has colored my thinking on their use.

I’ve seen many of my neighbors use an invisible fence over the years with great “success” but I also know of one dog who never really adjusted to it.

This dog failed to make the "shock and yard boundary" association. For him the entire yard suddenly became a place where he could get “zapped” for no apparent reason. He got a little better with it over time, but every time he went in the back yard from that point on he would stay as close to the house as possible and walk slow and low to the ground. It was sad to watch.

Your dog will probably get used to the invisible fence, since most dogs do, but don’t be afraid to scrap the whole thing if it’s not working out after a while. Remember, you got it for her. If she’s not happy, maybe the zap-free back yard (and a few more walks) is the better option.

Good luck!

In comment 14007945 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

"it worked great for my dog". Every breed is different and even dogs within the breed. I have a dog that is very skittish by nature and of you yell or stomp you foot or anything negative he gets really scared. I think you need to know your dog. Hopefully, your dog will be like others and start venturing a little more on your lawn but stay within the boundaries. My dog is definitely different. When I saw come he freezes up because I used to say come when he went to the bathroom in the house so he could see or if I am telling him to come when the garbage men drive by (he's a herding dog so he goes crazy with stuff like that). It was mostly done in a negative way so that is what he knows. It is hard to break a bad habit with him like that. Now, if the garbage men come I just say get in your cage and he is great but if I say come he just stands there and sometimes lays down because he feels he is in trouble. He took off on me one day down the street and headed right for a major higheay. Ironically, he jumped out of my truck when we pulled up to dog training class because next to the place was a fenced in property with a guard dog that started barking and spooked him. At the time I had one of those extending leashes with a hard plastic handle. When he jumped out of the trucm he ripped the leash right out of my hand because it wasn't long enough and I didn't want to basically hang the dog and mess up his neck. When I tried to get him I kept yelling come. It didn't matter because the hard plastic handle kept hitting the ground and spooking him more. He was basically trying to run away from the noise but obviously couldn't because it was attached to him. I chased him all the way down the road and my heart dropped. I looked to run straight on the highway. I ran to the end of the block and realized he ran onto this property but they had a front fence. He was good. The ppastic wasn't making the noise anymore hitting the pavement. I got him. I really thought he was dead. From now on instead of saying come I just say sit and he sits. He's fine. I used to be nervous with him getting out of the house. He listens to me but only me. He does not listen to my wife or mother. So, I was always worried he'd get out with them. I started taking him on the front lawn and he'd get nervous and just head right for the garage or front door. It is a relief. When any door is open he will not go outside of it unless it is the back door. He learned very well. My advice to you is get to know your dog. I'm sure you already do so you probably have the answers already without having to ask us. You know what gets through to your dog and what doesn't. Being positive in the training seems to work better than being negative most of the time so it makes sense that the first time or 2 or dog is getting in trouble but doesn't really understand why yet. So, instead of learning your dog is just playing it safe. At some point I'm sure your dog will start the leaening process again by slowly expanding her boundaries. My dog would be different though.

Scary story! If I were you I would make “coming to your owner(s) on demand” my #1 dog training priority.

Instead of making your dog sit when you really want him to come to you, I would just find a new word for “come”. It can be any one or two syllable word, as long as your dog associates that word with “come here” and all your family members use the same word.

Is your dog motivated by treats? If so, do the “come here” training by rewarding him with a treat when he comes to you. Start him out in the sit position, just a few steps away and repeat the exercise over and over again, moving further away each time.

I would also get your entire family involved in this training as well. Have your wife/mother/other family member right at your side while you’re doing this training and take turns giving the commands. (You can't ensure your dog's safety if he only listens to you and not to other family members.)

Most herding dogs are very intelligent, but stubborn, so it may take a little time.

And I’m sure you know this by now, but it’s never a good idea to make a dog “come” to you so that you can punish him. Dogs that obey commands should always be rewarded with either a treat or with praise, until they obey 100% of the time.

I should clarify. He does come when I say come in a positive way but even then he comes with hesitation. If it is an emergency and I yell come he freezes up. So, what I mean is if he would run away or anything and he is scared saying come doesn't have the necessary effect and it is hard to replicate. If it is in a fun atmosphere then he gets it and he is fine. That was my mistake from being so stern when he was younger. I didn't understand him and what type of dog he was when he was younger. I overused it if he would do something wrong.

I only say sit if we go to the park and I feel he would take off which really doesn't happen at all. I just know that is a fallback option for me because that works with him.

He is a great dog and very smart. And that is part of the issue too. If he was a dumb dog he'd forget that old stuff and be fine. Lol.

He is a shetland sheepdog. He is beautiful but they are timid by nature at least in certain situations. But with me ge is amazing. He warms up to people way faster than our other shelties we had when I was growing up. This is my first dog I have owned myself so it is a learning experience for me as well.

do it twice a week. It will cost you 50 bucks and your dog will get to be part of a pack, which is what makes them happy

but just in case you are feeling bad, I knew an older woman who rescued dogs. She had the invisible fence but would forget to turn it off when she took the dogs for a ride in the car. you would hear all this yelping when she pulled out of her driveway.

Decent systems have a sensitivity adjustment.
If in doubt pay the installer extra to do training and have them include any extra charge for setting that adjustment.

Is it possible that a dog is so sensitive that an Inv Fence will be traumatic? Yes; but far less than the probability of your dog being injured without containment.

If you don't like that, get a cyclone fence.

I've handled dogs for 40 years; including getting four of them the full set of AKC obedience titles. I believe in positive reinforcement for dogs (not training by punishment). I've had invisible fences for all my Goldens who are about as "sensitive" as you can get.

BTW, all bets are off for lap dogs; if you selected a "rug mop" you bought into taking them out on a leash. :)

Huskies (like Beagles) are born wanderers; they will try to break out of any containment.

My Son-in-Law had a Husky who figured out the system.
Most electronic fences give an audible signal to the pet prior to the "shock". That's more than enough for my current pet (a Labradoodle); I've had to change the boundaries several times to protect plants and all she needs to stay away is to hear the buzz.

However Lokie, the Husky, somehow learned that the batteries wear down. He would stand in the "buzzer" zone until the sound stopped and then he would dart off to visit his girl friend.

Putting dogs in dog crates for eight hours a day while people go to work. Jeezuzfookin-crise, that's some downright mean treatment. Dogs aren't inanimate objects that you can put away in a box while you're not home.

It's ridiculous when the owners say "but he likes it in there!". No, your dog doesn't like the scoldings it gets when he doesn't go in the little cage.

fenced our back yard we had the invisible fence with 3 dogs.
We also "fenced" off our formal living room. The oldest dog (smartest of the bunch) picked up the borders very quickly, the others took a little longer. Just takes some time.

statement above we eventually stopped using the collars all together and they remained within the boarder with no issues.

I'll stick with it a little longer. I took the collar off brought her in the car for a ride and then to a park (which is a typical activity for us on a weekend that isn't hockey season), she peed 90 times and crapped 3, which is not typical - well she pees everywhere on every walk, but this seemed like she was saving it up her pee and poop b/c she was afraid to go at home.

Until I see her peeing in the backyard I will believe she's not comfortable.

So I'll give it the 7 - 10 days the vendor suggests and then re-assess.

Again, thank you for all the replies.

In comment 14008251 fivehead said:

Quote:

Putting dogs in dog crates for eight hours a day while people go to work. Jeezuzfookin-crise, that's some downright mean treatment. Dogs aren't inanimate objects that you can put away in a box while you're not home. It's ridiculous when the owners say "but he likes it in there!". No, your dog doesn't like the scoldings it gets when he doesn't go in the little cage.

I work from home, so I don't need to do this - and I wouldn't crate my dog for that long, but it's even more dangerous to leave a dog roaming around in a house alone if they're young and you can't watch them.

If I ran out for an hour or two and didn't put my puppy in his crate, I'd be a really bad dog owner.

Of course, they shouldn't be crated all day - but crate training and utilizing a crate for younger dogs definitely isn't inhumane. It's really the opposite.

my dog is crate trained, but I also work from home, and if I'm traveling for a full day or more my wife takes our dog to daycare.

but if we leave the house for a couple hours we do crate her.

and her crate is open all day when I'm home and sometimes she goes in there lays down and chills out.

The crate is a haven for dogs, like a den and when used properly and not as a punishment many dogs do in fact enjoy some crate time. Plus as Arc pointed out there are other benefits.

I don't think I'd get a dog knowing all day, every day, it would be in a crate for 8+ hours, but especially if you're rescuing from a kill shelter, there are for more inhumane things (if that's even the right word for a dog, LOL) you can do.

In comment 14008392 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

and her crate is open all day when I'm home and sometimes she goes in there lays down and chills out. The crate is a haven for dogs, like a den and when used properly and not as a punishment many dogs do in fact enjoy some crate time.

Perfectly said, and executed. My guess is you and your dog will catch on to the invisible fence as well...