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NFT: Knicks Summer League Game 2 on NBA TV Now.

Mike from SI : 7/8/2018 9:11 pm
I figured I'd start a new thread as a heads up for anyone who wasn't clicking into the old one.
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RE: Yea Frank definitely looked just about the best I've ever seen of him  
Mike from SI : 7/9/2018 9:47 am : link
In comment 14008767 Stu11 said:
Quote:
last night. Knox really is blowing away the "experts" watching the league. I think most are surprised by his versatility and how good his handle is. He has shot well at all either which we know he can do. Not that these are like NBA games, but they do keep score and the players seem invested in winning so its also impressive to see Knox wanting the ball at the end of these games. Will be interesting to see what they do with Robinson this year. Do they send him back and forth to the G-league to get him big time minutes? Or maybe Fiz wants to work more closely with him practicing every day and tries to work him in there 10-15 minutes a night. Either way the kid really has potential.


I'd prefer him on the Knicks conditioning with the team, getting to know his teammates, learning from Fiz, and getting some minutes every game. That said, I won't throw a tantrum if he starts in Westchester.
RE: RE: Yea Frank definitely looked just about the best I've ever seen of him  
Stu11 : 7/9/2018 9:50 am : link
In comment 14008773 Mike from SI said:
Quote:

I'd prefer him on the Knicks conditioning with the team, getting to know his teammates, learning from Fiz, and getting some minutes every game. That said, I won't throw a tantrum if he starts in Westchester.

I have a feeling he starts in Westchester just to get him used to playing regular minutes night to night again. Then later in the year they'll bring him up to get minutes at the NBA level once he's in a routine.
I too am liking what I'm seeing from Knox.  
Keith : 7/9/2018 9:55 am : link
I did see some laziness on defense, but he def looks like he belongs. He reminds me a bit of Giannis with his length(I know he's a little shorter at this point, but he can still grow), ability to get to the rim and athleticism. We can only pray that he develops into half of Giannis, but the potential is certainly there.
RE: I too am liking what I'm seeing from Knox.  
nygiants16 : 7/9/2018 9:57 am : link
In comment 14008784 Keith said:
Quote:
I did see some laziness on defense, but he def looks like he belongs. He reminds me a bit of Giannis with his length(I know he's a little shorter at this point, but he can still grow), ability to get to the rim and athleticism. We can only pray that he develops into half of Giannis, but the potential is certainly there.


he is coming in though with a better jumper which is even more scary..

i dont think he will be the defender giannis is though...
if fiz goes  
nygiants16 : 7/9/2018 10:00 am : link
frank thjr hezonja knox 4 of the starters with kanter, kanter may not be able to get across half court before the knicks are shooting...

loved what i saw from frank last night
RE: RE: I too am liking what I'm seeing from Knox.  
Keith : 7/9/2018 10:01 am : link
In comment 14008791 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14008784 Keith said:


Quote:


I did see some laziness on defense, but he def looks like he belongs. He reminds me a bit of Giannis with his length(I know he's a little shorter at this point, but he can still grow), ability to get to the rim and athleticism. We can only pray that he develops into half of Giannis, but the potential is certainly there.



he is coming in though with a better jumper which is even more scary..

i dont think he will be the defender giannis is though...


Time will tell, but I think it's something the coaches will have to beat into his head. A lot of defense is desire and effort. There was a bunch of times last night where Knox didn't show desire or effort on defense. He's got the length to be a force on defense, but the staff will have to get him to want it.
i always say if a great offensive player  
nygiants16 : 7/9/2018 10:09 am : link
is an average defender most of the time and good defender when it really counts at the end that is what matters to me...

it is hard to have a go to scorer be great on both ends
It isn't even a little bit surprising or disappointing...  
manh george : 7/9/2018 10:15 am : link
that Knox, as a very young, highly athletic 3/4 focused on learning his offensive game first. I think he has the potential to be an excellent rebounder/defender as well. It's just going to take longer, as one would expect it to. He hasn't been coached up to defend in the pro game as yet, and he need to add strength, which he clearly will.

I even wonder if he will continue to get taller. Frank is 13 months older and he just added an inch.
even lebron  
nygiants16 : 7/9/2018 10:16 am : link
will hide for the first 3 quarters, he will make a player here and there but he doesnt lock in defensively until the 4th quarter
RE: Aw, give Trier a break.  
Heisenberg : 7/9/2018 10:18 am : link
In comment 14008678 manh george said:
Quote:
He is looking like a typical summer league rookie chucker. Could he play in the NBA like that? Of course not. Could he learn to control his game by playing in the G-League? None of us has any idea. The game is too fast for him right now. Has the game ever slowed down for anyone between summer league and, say, the middle of the rookie season?

Nah, never happened.


He has size for a 2, athleticism and a shot. Better combination of the three than most second round shooting guards--and he didn't cost a pick. But he chucks. Not so terrible a starting place for an UDFA.

Meanwhile, Knox just looks huge out there relative to his talent. He's going to sky over small forwards, and run around and shoot over power forwards. Sorta like Melo spelled backwards. Most of the scouting reports on him were ridiculously wrong.

Kudos to the Knicks staff on both Knox and Robinson. Robinson signed a 4 year deal, last two of which are team option. The Knicks will still have him after he gets in shape and learns the game. He has the combination of speed, quickness and length that is needed in the current NBA.


Trier doesn't have very good size at all. He looks short out there and has Justin Pugh arms compared to Frank, Knox and Robinson. He's a crafty scorer and a ball hog and not very good defensively at all.
RE: even lebron  
Keith : 7/9/2018 10:22 am : link
In comment 14008811 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
will hide for the first 3 quarters, he will make a player here and there but he doesnt lock in defensively until the 4th quarter


Trust me, I understand all of this. My concern, which is so minimal after 2 summer league games, is a desire issue. He very clearly did not want to help out on a few drives to the basket. There were a few drives that he could have easily stepped in front of, but made a decision to allow an uncontested layup.

Again though, its not something worth harping on after 2 summer league games, just somethign that I noticed on a few occassions.
RE: RE: even lebron  
nygiants16 : 7/9/2018 10:25 am : link
In comment 14008818 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 14008811 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


will hide for the first 3 quarters, he will make a player here and there but he doesnt lock in defensively until the 4th quarter



Trust me, I understand all of this. My concern, which is so minimal after 2 summer league games, is a desire issue. He very clearly did not want to help out on a few drives to the basket. There were a few drives that he could have easily stepped in front of, but made a decision to allow an uncontested layup.

Again though, its not something worth harping on after 2 summer league games, just somethign that I noticed on a few occassions.


keith agreed, i saw a couple of plays where he didnt get back quick enough, he missdd a rotation, he definitely looked tired on a couple of posessions...

I'm not getting carried away on Mitchell Robinson  
bceagle05 : 7/9/2018 10:29 am : link
but he could make the Melo trade a real laugher in the Knicks favor. Perry was wise to pry that second round pick from OKC.
RE: I'm not getting carried away on Mitchell Robinson  
nygiants16 : 7/9/2018 10:34 am : link
In comment 14008825 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
but he could make the Melo trade a real laugher in the Knicks favor. Perry was wise to pry that second round pick from OKC.


lakers really screwed that up, gave the kid a 1st round promise then thought they could get him in the 2nd round and didnt...

i also like how golic and wingo are not kissing magics ass like everyonr else is
RE: RE: I'm not getting carried away on Mitchell Robinson  
TommyWiseau : 7/9/2018 10:44 am : link
In comment 14008830 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14008825 bceagle05 said:


Quote:


but he could make the Melo trade a real laugher in the Knicks favor. Perry was wise to pry that second round pick from OKC.



lakers really screwed that up, gave the kid a 1st round promise then thought they could get him in the 2nd round and didnt...

i also like how golic and wingo are not kissing magics ass like everyonr else is


They tried to get cute, a buddy of mine who works for an agency said they contacted multiple teams at the top of the 2nd round to try and buy a 2nd round pick.. presumably to take Robinson.
man im getting excited about knox....  
Italianju : 7/9/2018 11:20 am : link
you can see the stroke is there even if the shots arent falling for him yet. Does seem to get a bit out of control when driving some times and has got bailed out on foul calls, but thats the only knock i see so far. He has a great first step and the athleticism is obvious. That dunk he had in the third got me out of my seat in a damn summer league game.

Happy to see Frank look better, still needs to finish around the basket more. Gets in the lane and settles for a fall away that might not work all the time against NBA defenders and not summer league guys. That said he looked so much better then game 1 so im happy.

Robinson is gonna be a beast when he bulks up. He is so quick for a guy his size. While he was getting abused by bradley, Greg anthony was talking about him needed to work on being in better position down low. That will come with time. What you cant teach is that size/speed and hopefully strength.
another thing about knox  
nygiants16 : 7/9/2018 11:28 am : link
he wanted the ball, trier waa just to busy shooting over 3 guys...

in the nba good players recognize the go to guy, in the 3rd after he hit 2 3s and had the dunk they went away from him...

also after 2 games he scored 2 completely different ways, 1st game a lot of run outs and foul line...2md game yes he got to the line but a lot ofnit was half court, and he hit a couple of shots
I loved Frank's game last night  
bceagle05 : 7/9/2018 11:35 am : link
but I think he'll always look a little mechanical out there - maybe it's the length of his arms, but he just doesn't seem like a natural. You don't get style points though - as long as he chips in on offense he'll have a place.
I'm not surprised Robinson has had some rough patches on defense  
Greg from LI : 7/9/2018 11:38 am : link
He hasn't played in real games in a year, and the last time he did it was against high school kids. Can't wait to see his improvement over the course of this season as he shakes the rust off.

I'm still not enormously optimistic about the Knicks, but for the first time in forever they do have multiple promising young players, so that's nice.
Frank's offensive game...  
manh george : 7/9/2018 11:38 am : link
will get a lot better once he starts to drop more threes and stop-and-pops. He has the stroke, but I don't imagine he ever shot outside much in Europe, so it will take some time. Getting stronger will help a lot, too. At 6'6" with those long arms, he is going to be able to shoot over pgs, and that will open up the court considerably.
Spurs decline to match on Kyle Anderson  
Strahan91 : 7/9/2018 11:52 am : link
Memphis seems like our best shot at moving Lee for expirings. They're clearing trying to win now at all costs, have a need at SG and he's well liked there and a good fit alongside the rest of the roster. Their cap is in poor shape moving forward so the extra year shouldn't matter much to them. Green and McLemore works under the salary cap and both are expiring.
Knicks  
TyreeHelmet : 7/9/2018 12:07 pm : link
Very encouraging and looks like they nailed the Knox pick.

I’d like to see the Knicks go all in on the youth. Trade Lee for expirings. Trade THJ to the Kings- they could easily be talked into it. You may even be able to get an asset from them. I’d also probably trade or just cut Kanter. Don’t half ass the rebuild- go all in and create a ton of cap space going forward.

What’s Noah’s role going to be?
Knicks front office has done a good job the last few months.  
Heisenberg : 7/9/2018 12:10 pm : link
Knox and Robinson look like good picks. Fizdale is off to a good start in changing the culture. Signing Robinson to that very affordable and well constructed deal was really smart.

RE: Knicks front office has done a good job the last few months.  
steve in ky : 7/9/2018 12:13 pm : link
In comment 14008945 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Knox and Robinson look like good picks. Fizdale is off to a good start in changing the culture. Signing Robinson to that very affordable and well constructed deal was really smart.


I agree and really Dolan has seemed to stay out of it which is great.
I wonder if the Knicks even want to trade THJR.  
Keith : 7/9/2018 12:13 pm : link
He doesn't fit and he doesn't help the cap situation, but Mills just signed him a year ago. It would be admitting a mistake.
RE: I wonder if the Knicks even want to trade THJR.  
robbieballs2003 : 7/9/2018 12:14 pm : link
In comment 14008952 Keith said:
Quote:
He doesn't fit and he doesn't help the cap situation, but Mills just signed him a year ago. It would be admitting a mistake.


Mills also panicked and signed him before our GM was hired. I hope they admit the mistake.
THJr  
giants#1 : 7/9/2018 12:22 pm : link
I'd be surprised if they own up to that mistake just one offseason later.
RE: I wonder if the Knicks even want to trade THJR.  
TyreeHelmet : 7/9/2018 12:25 pm : link
In comment 14008952 Keith said:
Quote:
He doesn't fit and he doesn't help the cap situation, but Mills just signed him a year ago. It would be admitting a mistake.


They probably won’t but they could spin it positively by saying it’s simply a move to create more cap space. I would be all over Sacramento about it. Hardaway and Lavine aren’t drastically different players.

Another interesting rumor I read from Zach lowe is that Kyrie Iriving and Jimmy Butler want to play together. Man would that be a nice backcourt.
i dont think they trade hardaway  
nygiants16 : 7/9/2018 12:28 pm : link
i thibk they move lee and noah gets stretched...

hopefully if irving and butler are talking they talk to kp to and all take alightly less than max
RE: I wonder if the Knicks even want to trade THJR.  
Strahan91 : 7/9/2018 1:01 pm : link
In comment 14008952 Keith said:
Quote:
He doesn't fit and he doesn't help the cap situation, but Mills just signed him a year ago. It would be admitting a mistake.


He doesn't help their cap situation for next summer but he fits quite well from a basketball perspective in my opinion. He's at his best in transition, playing at a fast pace which they're going to be doing a lot of.

Addressing another comment not the above but it's a really bad idea to dump Hardaway, Lee and Kanter all for nothing to have a team of guys ~18-23. At that age, most are immature, coming into money for the first time in their lives, living in a big city with many temptations and have little NBA experience.

They need *a* vet, probably at least 2 otherwise you'll have a bunch of kids trying to make a name for themselves by battling it out to be "the guy". See the below from cleaningtheglass.com (site run by the former VP of Basketball Strategy and Analytics for the Sixers) on Oladipo's breakout. It's also worth mentioning that Perry has spoken before about this being a regret of his and something he's learned from.

Quote:
So Kevin Pritchard faced a conundrum when weighing the Thunder’s offer for George: How do you assess four years of a player’s performance when you are skeptical about the context in which it occurred? For the Pacers, answering that question started with dialing back the clock. They went back to college—and even high school—to get reacquainted with the unsullied version of Oladipo. They seized on traits they had previously found attractive, particularly his relentless drive to be the best, fueled by his history as an unheralded recruit with a hunger to prove doubters wrong.

They studied his time in Orlando and saw a team clogged with high draft picks, all of whom were jockeying for alpha status. They were able to toss aside his season in OKC, given Oladipo’s uncomfortable role. And when they finished peering behind the curtain, they were convinced that they were looking at a 25-year-old whose full potential remained untapped.

1 vet i would like  
nygiants16 : 7/9/2018 1:07 pm : link
david west, he is likely not going to be back with golden state, he is from the area, he has his championships, he could be a nice vet to add to a young team
they may need A vet  
Greg from LI : 7/9/2018 1:09 pm : link
But that vet should not be the worthless Tim Hardaway, the shooting guard who can't shoot. Or play defense.
Need a Vet? Maybe Jose Calderon is available.  
Heisenberg : 7/9/2018 1:53 pm : link
.
Man  
DanMetroMan : 7/9/2018 2:12 pm : link
Okafor apparently has zero interest so far in FA, unbelievably quick fall from grace. Phil loved him too lol. PS there are plenty of veterans available with good reps if the Knicks were really that concerned. Frye, Vince Carter, Crawford, Joe Johnson, West, Mbah a moute
Fun article on Frank, with films.  
manh george : 7/9/2018 2:28 pm : link
Note that they took back the inch he grew over the last year.
Some really advanced moves, and they will get better as he gets stronger.

Quote:
Standing at 6’5″ with a 7’0″ wingspan, Ntilikina should be able to post guards up on a consistent basis once his body fills out. He should also be able to finish in traffic and shoot over the average defender from the perimeter.


It's important to note how huge that wingspan is for a pg/combo guard. Robinson's wingspan is considered spectacular at 7'4", and he's a center, of course.
Link - ( New Window )
can't believe Vince Carter is still around  
Greg from LI : 7/9/2018 2:40 pm : link
Seems like the Frederic Weis dunk was a hundred years ago
RE: Fun article on Frank, with films.  
Heisenberg : 7/9/2018 2:42 pm : link
In comment 14009104 manh george said:
Quote:
Note that they took back the inch he grew over the last year.
Some really advanced moves, and they will get better as he gets stronger.



Quote:


Standing at 6’5″ with a 7’0″ wingspan, Ntilikina should be able to post guards up on a consistent basis once his body fills out. He should also be able to finish in traffic and shoot over the average defender from the perimeter.



It's important to note how huge that wingspan is for a pg/combo guard. Robinson's wingspan is considered spectacular at 7'4", and he's a center, of course. Link - ( New Window )


My favorite play from that video is about :42 when he gets a pass on the break from Knox, does a little hesitation then goes into his defender strong and finishes. Shows the craftiness,aggressiveness and strength he didn't really have there. He was a terrible finisher at the rim last year. If he can do stuff like that, he's definitely gonna be a good NBA player because his defense is legit.
O’Quinn  
TyreeHelmet : 7/9/2018 4:01 pm : link
KOQ takes a shot at the Knicks.

-"I just felt like at this point, I owed it to myself to be a part of something bigger than next year's draft“.

Don’t really care about the comment but I was never a fan of this guy. Pretend tough guy who never improved or made a positive impact.
KOQ was fine. He's a decent but limited player. Good bench presence.  
Heisenberg : 7/9/2018 4:07 pm : link
And I have no problems with what he said about playing for next year's draft.
Only thing that annoys me about KOQ  
bceagle05 : 7/9/2018 4:16 pm : link
is that we were unwilling or unable to trade him for a draft pick, even a second rounder.
Is that really a shot at the Knicks?  
Keith : 7/9/2018 4:27 pm : link
It's a fact. Good for him.
as if the Knicks don't deserve shots taken at them  
Greg from LI : 7/9/2018 4:28 pm : link
.
KOQ  
DanMetroMan : 7/9/2018 4:28 pm : link
is a great guy. Does charity, great teammate. I'll miss him on the team. Pretty cool Fiz is going to spend time in Latvia on vacation with KP.
RE: KOQ  
NoGainDayne : 7/9/2018 4:34 pm : link
In comment 14009254 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is a great guy. Does charity, great teammate. I'll miss him on the team. Pretty cool Fiz is going to spend time in Latvia on vacation with KP.


Didn't know that, it's great to hear. Love what he said in his summer league interview yesterday when asked what working with players like LBJ and Wade taught him and it was that you have to earn the respect of the players. Especially in a time when all these super teams are forming you can't underestimate the value of forming bonds with your players. Really reduces that chance that a player leaves if you have spent your time forming a great relationship with them. Not to mention what it does for team unity if you are able to cultivate that with all of your players.
Hahn and Wally  
bceagle05 : 7/9/2018 8:31 pm : link
were downright giddy over Knox during that "Knicks Night Live" show on MSG. Young talent is fun.
Not sure we need a vet..  
Italianju : 7/9/2018 8:40 pm : link
but its kinda nuts that the oldest player on the team could be 26 (kanter and THJR). Lee is 32 and Noah 33 but who knows if they will be on the team.
oops...  
Italianju : 7/9/2018 8:41 pm : link
i forgot about Lance Thomas (30) ....wishful thinking i guess.
RE: RE: I wonder if the Knicks even want to trade THJR.  
djm : 7/9/2018 9:28 pm : link
In comment 14009018 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 14008952 Keith said:


Quote:


He doesn't fit and he doesn't help the cap situation, but Mills just signed him a year ago. It would be admitting a mistake.



He doesn't help their cap situation for next summer but he fits quite well from a basketball perspective in my opinion. He's at his best in transition, playing at a fast pace which they're going to be doing a lot of.

Addressing another comment not the above but it's a really bad idea to dump Hardaway, Lee and Kanter all for nothing to have a team of guys ~18-23. At that age, most are immature, coming into money for the first time in their lives, living in a big city with many temptations and have little NBA experience.

They need *a* vet, probably at least 2 otherwise you'll have a bunch of kids trying to make a name for themselves by battling it out to be "the guy". See the below from cleaningtheglass.com (site run by the former VP of Basketball Strategy and Analytics for the Sixers) on Oladipo's breakout. It's also worth mentioning that Perry has spoken before about this being a regret of his and something he's learned from.



Quote:


So Kevin Pritchard faced a conundrum when weighing the Thunder’s offer for George: How do you assess four years of a player’s performance when you are skeptical about the context in which it occurred? For the Pacers, answering that question started with dialing back the clock. They went back to college—and even high school—to get reacquainted with the unsullied version of Oladipo. They seized on traits they had previously found attractive, particularly his relentless drive to be the best, fueled by his history as an unheralded recruit with a hunger to prove doubters wrong.

They studied his time in Orlando and saw a team clogged with high draft picks, all of whom were jockeying for alpha status. They were able to toss aside his season in OKC, given Oladipo’s uncomfortable role. And when they finished peering behind the curtain, they were convinced that they were looking at a 25-year-old whose full potential remained untapped.



Good stuff, Strahan.
O’quinn Can say whatever he wants  
djm : 7/9/2018 9:38 pm : link
He didn’t necessarily kill them but it kind of was a shot. Knicks paid him a decent salary and gave him plenty of playing time. He was one of the reasons why they sucked. Maybe he should say that.
More Knox love (Berman article)....  
bceagle05 : 7/10/2018 10:12 am : link
Quote:
“When is Kevin Knox going into the Hall of Fame?’’ one NBA scout asked a New York reporter Monday at Thomas & Mack Center.

The talent evaluator was jesting, but it’s evidence of the buzz created among NBA cognoscenti by the 6-foot-9 Knicks lottery-pick forward at the Las Vegas summer league after just two outings.

The 18-year-old out of Kentucky is averaging 20.5 points, though he’s shooting just 37 percent. But it’s the way he is doing it that has wowed Vegas. His rim-rattling tomahawk dunks in the open court haven’t hurt.

“It’s a matter of development — it’s about when it happens,’’ an NBA assistant coach said of Knox rising into an All-Star caliber player. “But it’s going to happen. I don’t see any red flags. He’s a great, great prospect.’’

BermanOfThePost - ( New Window )
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