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Stewart was "plodding" during the offseason...

Mike in St. Louis : 7/10/2018 11:36 am
according to nj.com...

"Jonathan Stewart

2017 Stats: 198 carries for 680 yards and 6 touchdowns with 8 catches for 52 yards and 1 touchdown.

It is entirely fair to question how much Jonathan Stewart has left in the tank, after he averaged a career-low 3.4 yards per carry with the Carolina Panthers last season. Nevertheless, general manager Dave Gettleman and the Giants signed Stewart to a two-year $6.8 million deal that includes $3.45 million guaranteed. This spring, Stewart looked more like a plodding veteran running back trying to hang on, than a back capable of shouldering a significant workload. If nothing else, Stewart should provide steady veteran leadership in a locker room that is in desperate need of it."

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RE: Still think this was a horrible signing for the money  
SGMen : 7/10/2018 8:46 pm : link
In comment 14010266 TD said:
Quote:
Vet min at most for Stewart at this age and production. Itís not like he was a hot commodity in the FA market I donít think.

I get the ďmentoringĒ and goal line stuff but you can get that for a lot cheaper.

Oh well, at least Gettlemanís bad signings havenít really broken the budget (Stewart and Herzlich).
I agree, we overpaid. SMH
Totally forgot we even have him  
DennyInDenville : 7/10/2018 9:10 pm : link
He's irrelevant as all can be on this team, however he is a good guy, a LONG time vet and maybe they like him mentoring the high investment for a year
Stewart signing is a joke. While I understand the locker room  
Jimmy Googs : 7/10/2018 10:19 pm : link
leadership crap is a need at some level, the idea that the Giants have to go purchase it from a has-been like Stewart, at the amount of money he got, is basically fraudulent.

God forbid Eli, OBJ or some other so called ďeliteĒ positional player actually shows some in-your-face character on that Offense to be a true character/leader. Nope, we have to go buy it from the local retirement home.

Short yardage back concerns in 2018...are you kidding me? That is like Issue #76 on the list of things to worry about for a 3-13 team.

Stewart will be the first guy jettisoned next year if not sooner if this team struggles.

Easily will be DGs least-finest moment...

An example of what not to do

...  
christian : 7/10/2018 10:44 pm : link
Most of his carries last year were on 1st down (55.9%) and with long yardage (65.3% with 7+ yds to gain). Carolina definitely tried to use him as normal back and he basically sucked.

He did score 5/6 TDs within 5 yards, so he showed he could punch it in. I'm just not sure that's worth the guaranteed money.
The off season is not training camp. He has 3MM guaranteed, he's  
Marty in Albany : 7/11/2018 12:53 am : link
gonna pace himself. If he still looks bad in training camp then he will not be any better during the season. We'll see.
Stewart shouldnt be expected to carry any kind of work load  
micky : 7/11/2018 6:30 am : link
just situational (rotation, goal line, etc) Im sure if Barkley should miss any time period, theyd look to the others to carry the load til barkley returns or so forth.
How many runs for touchdowns inside the 5 yd line  
gidiefor : Mod : 7/11/2018 7:41 am : link
Have the Guants been able to convert in the past three years?

Watch after itís all said and done  
NikkiMac : 7/11/2018 8:05 am : link
Stewart is probably going to make a difference in some game thatís going to benefit the Giants hopefully that will be in the playoffs .......
Are you kidding me???  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2018 8:20 am : link
Quote:
Ross Cockerell
Vanzetti : 7/10/2018 4:39 pm : link : reply
signed for the exact same money 2/6.8 million

I don't see how anyone can seriously argue that Giants are better off with JS than RC.


Ross Cockrell makes us a better team? Stewart at least fills a need we've sorely been lacking - a goal line/short yardage runner.

Exactly what role does Cockrell fill? 4th or 5th CB??
If he had signed for the vet minimum, I'd be all for it  
jcn56 : 7/11/2018 10:13 am : link
A team with locker room problems and a lack of veteran leadership that is going with a new offensive system could use a guy like him.

It wasn't until the 'wait, HOW MUCH?' moment that it all fell apart.
jcn  
Jimmy Googs : 7/11/2018 2:35 pm : link
yes
RE: Watch after itís all said and done  
SGMen : 7/11/2018 4:55 pm : link
In comment 14010528 NikkiMac said:
Quote:
Stewart is probably going to make a difference in some game thatís going to benefit the Giants hopefully that will be in the playoffs .......
Lets say he has 50 carries for a surprising 180 yards as a pure short yardage / goal line back. He has 10 TD's. Was he worth what we paid for him? Or could our current RB's have done the same for much less $$?
Either our current RBs could likely have done the same  
Jimmy Googs : 7/11/2018 5:21 pm : link
or someone cheaper, closer to vet min.

Between having a weak Offensive Line and a QB that is absolutely no threat to sneak, no sure we should blame the short-yardage conversions issues on our previous RBs.

Nevertheless, if Stewart has any value on the field it better come here...
RE: Are you kidding me???  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/11/2018 5:26 pm : link
In comment 14010535 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


Ross Cockerell
Vanzetti : 7/10/2018 4:39 pm : link : reply
signed for the exact same money 2/6.8 million

I don't see how anyone can seriously argue that Giants are better off with JS than RC.



Ross Cockrell makes us a better team? Stewart at least fills a need we've sorely been lacking - a goal line/short yardage runner.

Exactly what role does Cockrell fill? 4th or 5th CB??


Where's this confidence coming from in this group of Corners. Even if you think Grant Haley is going to set the world on fire, what happens when someone gets hurt? Cockrell was a very good player. I think you're tremendously overstating the value of a "goal line back".
Especially for a team that just invested a #2 overall pick  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/11/2018 5:27 pm : link
on what is supposed to be the best RB prospect since Adrian Peterson.
The RB market is changing  
adamg : 7/11/2018 5:33 pm : link
The 49ers gave a ton of money McKinnon 30 mill 16 mill guar 7.5 mill per.

They might have overpaid for Stewart by a bit, but it's not a crazy contract. Blount got 2 mill fully guar by the Lions. You guys are quibbling over 1.5 mill extra in guaranteed money. I'd rather have Stewart being the vet leader and mentor for Barkley than Blount. And that difference might be worth the extra mill.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/11/2018 6:53 pm : link
Cockrell played pretty well but let's not go crazy - some of you guys are making it sound like losing him was devastating.

Stewart was the move I liked the least this offseason, but it's not really going to be that prohibitive or suffocate the team. I think Gettleman had a pretty good idea he was going to draft Barkley when Stewart was signed and I think he wanted Stewart here to really guide Barkley from day 1 and be a positive influence on him. Beyond that, we also could use a short yardage guy.

It's a slow time and there's not much to talk about, so stuff like this gets blown out of proportion.

Stewart isn't going to move the needle that much one way or another - but given what we're going to be putting on Barkley's plate and will expect him to do here over the next few years, I don't hate having a guy in the locker room like Stewart for him to learn from.

It is what it is.
Not saying he was an all pro  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/11/2018 7:18 pm : link
But he was a quality player, and there's really no reason to count on either Haley or Beal on being that as rookies. CB is a really, really hard position to make the jump from college.
Cockrell..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2018 9:22 pm : link
wasn't even considered solid.

He's a mediocre player who I'm sure is replaceable by most scrap heap guys.

Hell, Stewart could be put in that category as well.

At least Stewart fills a role we've been consistently poor at.
Like the value of a Cornerback vs a short yardage RB  
Jimmy Googs : 7/11/2018 11:24 pm : link
are on equal grounds.

Wake up and enter the year 2018 in the NFL...
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/12/2018 8:13 am : link
I doubt Ross Cockrell will ever be anything more than a nickel back and there are countless other players who will match his production. He was a lot like Fluker - a guy who played decent on a bad team and people project him to be very good

Overvaluing guys who leave this team and then do jackshit elsewhere is a time honored tradition.

But yeah, I'll wake up....
RE: Like the value of a Cornerback vs a short yardage RB  
arcarsenal : 7/12/2018 8:14 am : link
In comment 14011416 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
are on equal grounds.

Wake up and enter the year 2018 in the NFL...


Pretty sure it actually depends on the CB...

Holy overreaction...  
Brown Recluse : 7/12/2018 8:35 am : link
Jonathan Stewart is 31 years old. He's an old, established 10 year veteran whose role is clearly defined, and who doesn't need to come in and prove anything to anyone.

I would probably be plodding too. Whats the incentive for him to bust a gut in OTA's?

...  
christian : 7/12/2018 8:37 am : link
Cockrell is orders of magnitude better than the ghost of William Gay. If there was a scrap heap of guys as good as Cockrell I would have certainly grabbed one of them. Instead they have a 33-year-old who was a back-up safety as the third corner going into camp.

Unfortunately these are the types of decisions the GM is making on a very bad team. Ross Cockrell, William Gay, Jonathan Stewart -- these aren't the type of players a good team is counting on to make substantive contributions.

RE: Cockrell..  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/12/2018 9:12 am : link
In comment 14011333 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
wasn't even considered solid.



According to whom?

RE: LOL..  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/12/2018 9:12 am : link
In comment 14011466 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:

Overvaluing guys who leave this team and then do jackshit elsewhere is a time honored tradition.



To be fair, so is undervaluing anyone and anything associated with a team that had a bad year.
Who is being undervalued??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/12/2018 9:20 am : link
Cockrell will be a backup CB and a nickel CB. That's likely his ceiling

Stewart will be a short yardage back and a goal line back. That's his ceiling.

I'd rather have a proven player in an area of weakness than a guy who basically has players all around the league with his similar skill set.
Cockrell turned a 3 INT 11 pass breakup season  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/12/2018 12:51 pm : link
Into 2 years $6m. So that's pretty solid. And the idea that decent or better at that position is easy to find is one example of undervaluing.

We're talking about "goal line back" as if we didn't just spend the second overall pick on what is supposed to be a once in a decade, doesn't come off the field RB. I'm not sure where the idea came from that that's a real need.
RE: LOL..  
Jimmy Googs : 7/12/2018 5:36 pm : link
In comment 14011466 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
I doubt Ross Cockrell will ever be anything more than a nickel back and there are countless other players who will match his production. He was a lot like Fluker - a guy who played decent on a bad team and people project him to be very good

Overvaluing guys who leave this team and then do jackshit elsewhere is a time honored tradition.

But yeah, I'll wake up....


Yeah you should. I am not overvaluing Cockrell at all. Just properly valuing the de minimus value Stewart brings.

The Fridge played goal line RB too as a hobby...
RE: RE: Like the value of a Cornerback vs a short yardage RB  
Jimmy Googs : 7/12/2018 9:33 pm : link
In comment 14011469 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14011416 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


are on equal grounds.

Wake up and enter the year 2018 in the NFL...



Pretty sure it actually depends on the CB...


are you sure it also doesn't depend on the 31 year old RB who had no where to go other than his couch this season...
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/13/2018 8:24 am : link
great comparison.

The Fridge was also a goal line back for a Super Bowl team with a HoF RB.

If you don't see a value in converting short yardage over carrying a 4th or 5th DB whose skill set is similar to many, many players, I don't know what to tell you.

Of course, one of the major complaints about the offense in recent years was the lack of converting short yardage. We take a step to fix that and it is crapped on.

Typical.
I agree, you don't know what to tell me but keep lol  
Jimmy Googs : 7/13/2018 8:36 am : link
Getting a short yardage RB isn't a problem on its face. Signing Stewart, to be a one-trick pony, for what they did is.

Especially if (albeit indirectly) it takes away resources that could be invested in better depth.

Some of you  
RinR : 7/13/2018 10:40 am : link
speak so definitively that Stewart is going to suck this year I'm tempted to ask what the Mega Millions numbers will be next week.
Not just..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/13/2018 10:58 am : link
that stewart will suck, but that we'd spend the same amount on a 4th or 5th CB and that would be dandy.

I bet if we ponied up that salary for a CB, the same suspects would be bitching up a storm that we overpaid a 4th and 5th CB when we could've spent the resources elsewhere.

It's a neverending circle of ridiculousness.
Why do we need a short yardage back?  
Greg from LI : 7/13/2018 11:00 am : link
The hand of God will clear the way for Barkley in any short yardage situation.
RE: RE: RE: Like the value of a Cornerback vs a short yardage RB  
arcarsenal : 7/13/2018 11:17 am : link
In comment 14012284 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14011469 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 14011416 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


are on equal grounds.

Wake up and enter the year 2018 in the NFL...



Pretty sure it actually depends on the CB...




are you sure it also doesn't depend on the 31 year old RB who had no where to go other than his couch this season...


Sure, but just saying a CB is more valuable than a short-yardage RB is pointless. It means nothing unless you attribute actual players to the positions.

If it's Cockrell and Stewart, sure, I'd probably just rather have Cockrell based on the way the team is built and what our needs are.

But a CB isn't always more valuable. That part doesn't really make sense.
That's fine. Although you know the names of who  
Jimmy Googs : 7/13/2018 1:28 pm : link
was being discussed, and it was meant to cover every possible comparative like Jim Brown vs Trevin Wade...
RE: Why do we need a short yardage back?  
BigBlueShock : 7/13/2018 1:36 pm : link
In comment 14012574 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The hand of God will clear the way for Barkley in any short yardage situation.

I find it absolutely fascinating that a supposed grown man is this obsessed by harmless comments by the GM simply because he didnít want that player? Wtf is wrong with you? Iíll bet youíve brought up the hand of God comments 50 times or more since they were said. Because itís your way of throwing a hissy fit for not drafting who you wanted. You are an embarrassment when you donít get your way. Itís incredible. You seem like a somewhat intelligent guys so Iím shocked that you decide to go about things the way you do when you donít get your way. You must have been a real treasure as a child...

Now we get to spend the rest of Barkleyís career reading your infantile tantrums on every thread. Lucky us!
Posters complaining, others supporting, some debating  
Jimmy Googs : 7/13/2018 2:05 pm : link
others criticizing, some hopeful, others clueless, some uniformed, and even others sarcastic.

It just seems like an neverending circle of ridiculousness on here...

.  
arcarsenal : 7/13/2018 2:08 pm : link
Actually, just sounds like a pretty standard sports message board to me...
Really...do you think so?  
Jimmy Googs : 7/13/2018 2:32 pm : link
I don't know, just seems so odd...all these Giant fans that have such range of views and opinions in their respective posts. Its almost like we all think differently for some reason.

But you could be right...
.  
arcarsenal : 7/13/2018 3:22 pm : link
That's sports fandom for ya...

Any time you have such a wide array of people in different age brackets behind a curtain of anonymity, this is pretty much what you get.

Of course, this includes some extremes. People who won't be happy unless the Giants go 16-0 or people who won't criticize anything the team does no matter how bad it gets.

But if we all always agreed, this place would be pretty dull.
Yeah, you're probably right  
Jimmy Googs : 7/13/2018 5:49 pm : link
Just like its probably okay for some posters to really dislike monies allocated as they were for a guy like Stewart, and others to feel like a short-yardage good locker-room RB like him was worth the value. And hell...maybe even for other posters to show less-conviction either way and let it play out.

well, onto the next thread...

...  
christian : 7/13/2018 6:24 pm : link
If there are a glut of serviceable 3rd, 4th and 5th CBs on the market, I'm very confused why William Gay is on this roster. I suspect the Giants secondary is going to be very, very bad this year.

RE: ...  
Jimmy Googs : 7/14/2018 10:12 am : link
In comment 14012809 christian said:
Quote:
If there are a glut of serviceable 3rd, 4th and 5th CBs on the market, I'm very confused why William Gay is on this roster. I suspect the Giants secondary is going to be very, very bad this year.


Its because there isn't a glut...it wasn't a well thought out comment.

Almost everytime one of our reserve CBs has had to come into a game over the past several years, its like they have a "bulls-eye" on their backs. Serviceable is not what I have seen. Cockrell was one of the few that stepped up...
Do we even know  
BigBlueShock : 7/14/2018 10:35 am : link
that the Giants didnít offer Cockrell a contract? Iím not saying they did or didnít, I have no idea. But is it possible that they did and he just didnít want to be here? He seen first hand the dysfunction and losing last year and maybe he made the decision to move on. Could you blame him? Is it possible all of this complaining is unwarranted?

This article would leave you to believe Cockrell didn't fit the new  
Jimmy Googs : 7/14/2018 10:44 am : link
defense we are creating so he was expendable and let go to the Panthers. Good news though is we snatched their goal-line RB from before he was able to retire to his couch...


https://247sports.com/nfl/new-york-giants/Bolt/NFL-Free-Agency-Ross-Cockrell-signs-with-the-Carolina-Panthers-116595803/
RE: This article would leave you to believe Cockrell didn't fit the new  
BigBlueShock : 7/14/2018 11:06 am : link
In comment 14013029 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
defense we are creating so he was expendable and let go to the Panthers. Good news though is we snatched their goal-line RB from before he was able to retire to his couch...


https://247sports.com/nfl/new-york-giants/Bolt/NFL-Free-Agency-Ross-Cockrell-signs-with-the-Carolina-Panthers-116595803/

To be fair, 247 is not a very reputable news source. Iím not saying they are wrong in this case, but my guess is that knowing the source, thatís pure speculation on their part
Yeah, beats me if it is accurate. It was the first article  
Jimmy Googs : 7/14/2018 11:11 am : link
listed when I googled it so I posted it.

Stewert plodded last season as well  
djm : 7/14/2018 3:20 pm : link
HE was brought in here to plod and smash his way to 6-10 tds and provide leadership.

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