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NFT: Interesting read on the state of MLB

Sean : 7/10/2018 5:31 pm
The Yankees/Red Sox are in the middle of a pennant race, but it is not resonating nationally. I donít remember a season where the buzz has been this minimal. No one is talking baseball.

Sure, the Yankees are generating buzz on WFAN, but the bigger picture is troubling. I do agree with the premise that analytics are killing the entertainment value of baseball. At the end of the day, arenít sports entertainment?
Link  
Sean : 7/10/2018 5:32 pm : link
..
Link - ( New Window )
I still love working in the garage in the evening  
DC Gmen Fan : 7/10/2018 5:55 pm : link
listening to the yankees game on my mlb app. Best part of baseball to me is that it's there.

The fact that the yanks and sox are in a race is icing on the cake.
...  
26.2 : 7/10/2018 5:56 pm : link
Personally I don't think MLB does a great job marketing their stars.
When Mets manager Mickey Callaway....  
kinard : 7/10/2018 5:57 pm : link
... said a few weeks ago that he didn't ask first baseman Domnic Smith to lay down a sacrifice bunt because the organization never taught him how to bunt while he was in the minors or during spring training, I knew things we pretty bad.

Never taught to bunt? Ever? That's scary...(although it could have only been a "Mets thing").

When was the last time you saw a kid riding his bike with a baseball mitt on the handlebar? Or kids playing self-hit,half-field in a park?

Like telephone booths and record stores - just a relic of bygone days...
spot on it's all homers and strikeouts  
gtt350 : 7/10/2018 5:59 pm : link
I don't remember the last time I saw a stolen base
I don't think the lack of  
Metnut : 7/10/2018 6:03 pm : link
bunts or the shift is killing interest in MLB.

There's just more entertainment options out there than their used to be. MLB could help themselves by improving the pace of play and trying some measures to get more balls in play, but the MLB audience is aging and ratings are going to be flat/down long term IMO.

Analytics really has nothing to do with it IMO. The NBA has embraced analytics completely and it's ratings are grow with the younger demographic.
ESPN will get right on it after they stop blowing the NBA  
Jints in Carolina : 7/10/2018 7:36 pm : link
24/7
I moved to Fairfield ct last year  
Joey from GlenCove : 7/10/2018 7:44 pm : link
Sports are massive here but nothing seems to top baseball

I see everyone playing. Even kids in the street. Itís incredible.

I donít see anyone throwing a football around.

I see
Baseball
Soccer
Hockey - donít see it but I know itís popular.
I'm a weird bird.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/10/2018 7:47 pm : link
I never cared about baseball growing up, but started getting more into it as I get older. A lot of that is due to my brother in law, who might be the biggest Cubs fan in the world. He's really gotten me into baseball & the Cubs too. I follow them pretty religiously, though I'd hardly call myself a die-hard.
RE: ESPN will get right on it after they stop blowing the NBA  
terz22 : 7/10/2018 8:08 pm : link
In comment 14010256 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
24/7


Agreed I cant take it anymore.
The Yankees are talking about adding...  
Chris in Philly : 7/10/2018 8:18 pm : link
Machado and Harper. So I assume all the fans who shit on NBA ďsuper teamsĒ will remain remarkably consistent.
RE: The Yankees are talking about adding...  
UConn4523 : 7/10/2018 8:24 pm : link
In comment 14010290 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
Machado and Harper. So I assume all the fans who shit on NBA ďsuper teamsĒ will remain remarkably consistent.


I donít want either. But itís not a good comparison anyway, thereís no salary cap, having multiple all stars doesnít guarantee success, and both players are going to make over half a billion combined soitís a pretty big gamble.

As for the OP, I think a lot of itís marketing. The MLB has an athlete thatís basically right up there with LeBron James and youíd never know it. I support moves like banning (or modifying) the shift and getting rid of pitchers hitting to make the game a bit more ďexcitingĒ, but ultimately I think the MLB needs to do a better job promoting. They wonít be able to alter the game enough to attract the younger crowd that needs instant gratification so I wouldnít change things too much and risk alienating some of the fans that it already has.
Baseball is going to be on par with Lacrosse in 25 years  
Captplanet : 7/10/2018 8:44 pm : link
It's turning into an upper-middle-class sport, that is not attracting kids at a young age. Parents today are forcing their kids to play t-ball, and the lack of action is not keeping the children attention. It's hard enough getting them off of their tablets, never mind having them stand in right field in the sun waiting for a pop fly that will never come. It's that simple. Children under 10 would rather play soccer in their backyard, or basketball/hockey in their driveway.

Analytics, the shift, marketing.... none of this matters if children find the game to be boring.
RE: Baseball is going to be on par with Lacrosse in 25 years  
UConn4523 : 7/10/2018 9:09 pm : link
In comment 14010324 Captplanet said:
Quote:
It's turning into an upper-middle-class sport, that is not attracting kids at a young age. Parents today are forcing their kids to play t-ball, and the lack of action is not keeping the children attention. It's hard enough getting them off of their tablets, never mind having them stand in right field in the sun waiting for a pop fly that will never come. It's that simple. Children under 10 would rather play soccer in their backyard, or basketball/hockey in their driveway.

Analytics, the shift, marketing.... none of this matters if children find the game to be boring.


Those have always been the arguments against baseball, itís why I hated it as a kid. Iíve found many adults like me that didnít enjoy it much as a kid and now have a new found appreciation for it at an older age. And since you can make a fuckton of money playing it, thereís will always be a ton of interest, especially as kids are shifted away from the more violent sports.
game is long and boring  
spike : 7/10/2018 9:10 pm : link
even watching it in person is boring (and expensive), unless you carry a binocular.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/10/2018 9:31 pm : link
I'm in the minority but I still absolutely love baseball.

I think there will be more rule changes in the near future designed to speed up the game a bit and maybe make things a little more exciting. Hopefully nothing too drastic, but some minor changes to pick up the pace a bit wouldn't bother me.

I don't think baseball is in any danger of having "super teams" get to and win the WS each year. I think there's still a good bit of unpredictability there. The Royals were anything but a superteam a few years ago. The Cubs did it with mostly homegrown stars like Rizzo and Bryant. Houston drafted Correa, they scouted and signed Altuve when he was really young, they drafted Springer, etc.

There's a lot of talent across the league. It's scattered all over. It's not completely concentrated within 3-4 teams.

Mike Trout is the best player in baseball but his team hasn't won a postseason game in his entire career. In the NBA, LeBron James and 4 janitors get to the Finals.

The game is slow, I get why people lose interest. But I personally love having baseball during the dog days of summer and the postseason is still really exciting, IMO.
RE: .  
Sean : 7/10/2018 9:45 pm : link
In comment 14010374 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I'm in the minority but I still absolutely love baseball.

I think there will be more rule changes in the near future designed to speed up the game a bit and maybe make things a little more exciting. Hopefully nothing too drastic, but some minor changes to pick up the pace a bit wouldn't bother me.

I don't think baseball is in any danger of having "super teams" get to and win the WS each year. I think there's still a good bit of unpredictability there. The Royals were anything but a superteam a few years ago. The Cubs did it with mostly homegrown stars like Rizzo and Bryant. Houston drafted Correa, they scouted and signed Altuve when he was really young, they drafted Springer, etc.

There's a lot of talent across the league. It's scattered all over. It's not completely concentrated within 3-4 teams.

Mike Trout is the best player in baseball but his team hasn't won a postseason game in his entire career. In the NBA, LeBron James and 4 janitors get to the Finals.

The game is slow, I get why people lose interest. But I personally love having baseball during the dog days of summer and the postseason is still really exciting, IMO.


Agree with everything, but the sport needs to regain some footing nationally. Idk the answer to that, but more buzz is needed.
My pet peeves  
weeg in the bronx : 7/10/2018 9:53 pm : link
Games too long
Too many pitching changes
The death of the productive out
Lack of small ball play
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 7/10/2018 10:05 pm : link
In comment 14010395 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 14010374 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


I'm in the minority but I still absolutely love baseball.

I think there will be more rule changes in the near future designed to speed up the game a bit and maybe make things a little more exciting. Hopefully nothing too drastic, but some minor changes to pick up the pace a bit wouldn't bother me.

I don't think baseball is in any danger of having "super teams" get to and win the WS each year. I think there's still a good bit of unpredictability there. The Royals were anything but a superteam a few years ago. The Cubs did it with mostly homegrown stars like Rizzo and Bryant. Houston drafted Correa, they scouted and signed Altuve when he was really young, they drafted Springer, etc.

There's a lot of talent across the league. It's scattered all over. It's not completely concentrated within 3-4 teams.

Mike Trout is the best player in baseball but his team hasn't won a postseason game in his entire career. In the NBA, LeBron James and 4 janitors get to the Finals.

The game is slow, I get why people lose interest. But I personally love having baseball during the dog days of summer and the postseason is still really exciting, IMO.



Agree with everything, but the sport needs to regain some footing nationally. Idk the answer to that, but more buzz is needed.


Yeah, I would agree - I think they definitely have to find more ways to speed up the game.

Some of the time spent on replay is really ridiculous. It should be part of the game - I think it's important to get the calls right, but sometimes these guys are standing there with the headsets on for like 5 minutes at a time and it just kills the momentum and rhythm.

MLB definitely doesn't market their stars all that well, either.

We live in an instant gratification society, so a lot of people just don't have the patience for a slower-paced sport. I think that part of it is just something that will be tough to overcome.

But from a competitive standpoint, I do think the league is pretty healthy and interesting. I think there are several teams who have a legit shot at winning the World Series right now. It's definitely not like the NBA where you can just fast forward to another boring Warriors championship.
could not see the article due to the pay wall  
Steve in South Jersey : 7/10/2018 10:12 pm : link
However, as far as other team resonating with me; I only care about my favorite team in each sport: NFL, MLB, NHL, and NBA. I could not care less about the rest of any of those leagues.
It's not just baseball...  
Simms2McConkey : 7/10/2018 10:18 pm : link
Tim Burke (formerly of Deadspin) wrote a good article on NFL ratings in 2017 and put it in perspective next to other entertainment options.

As another poster said, the significant increase in entertainment options has decreased viewership on concentrated shows/sports/etc. A casual NFL fan may have gotten bored with the league and decided to watch some of the 70 million shows on Netflix instead, for example.

Of course, MLB has its issues (as it always has). As does the NFL (as it always has, although the league has been a bigger mess this decade). But I think the issue is more with casual fans choosing other entertainment options than anything else.

Also of note: World Series TV ratings used to be sky high. But attendance was far worse a few decades ago. It's because people interested in baseball casually at best may have just flipped to the World Series to pass time. Now they don't have to do that.
Burke - ( New Window )
...  
christian : 7/10/2018 10:18 pm : link
Baseball certainly is experiencing an adjustment, but that's a brutally stupid article.

The players aren't getting assholes, so therefore baseball sucks? Oof.

Every sport seems to be facing an existential crisis. Football viewership is down, baseball attendance is down, basketball is getting ruined by the Warriors.

Might it just be that most Americans have extraordinary access to entertainment and leisure and what once was time committed to sports is committed to the myriad other things directly in our faces?

The last great era of attention and revenue for baseball was directly connected to the home run boom. But now there aren't enough bunts?

Compared to 20 years ago there are 2 more strike outs per game and less than 1 fewer hits per game. That's really destroying the game?
People keep looking  
Joey in VA : 7/10/2018 10:52 pm : link
For answers and coming up stupid. This is a digital world now, people aren't glued to their local markets and a few channels carrying their local teams. It's not the ESPN cable era where seeing your team was a treat when you lived out of town. You can watch ANYTHING at any time on just about any platform and people are doing that. There are more channels, platforms, services and options than ever before and people are splintering off to what they really enjoy. You have niche activities that are now in mass appeal that people didn't have access to before and were shamed for going to (video games for instance). People go where they want to do what they want and families aren't sitting around watching the ball game.

Dad may be but the wife is watching her thing, kids are on ipads and tablets and people who don't give a flying shit about a sport aren't forced to watch it. It's real paring down of who is actually WANTING to watch these events. The pie is much bigger and slicers are smaller and there are more consumers than ever. Everyone is shrinking, all the major sports will suffer to a point but they'll adjust and the ad revenue and fight over network control will continue. They'll take a smaller bite, the games will suffer in viewership but people who love it will pony up more money to see it. You really think a Giants Panthers ticket in the 300s is worth $400 per seat? Fuck no, but in this case the demand is low and it humps the demand curve in a way it shouldn't. People are desperate to turn a profit on tickets and they inflate the shit out of prices because there are WAY fewer people willing to sell them. It violates basic supply/demand but it highlights greed because it uses premium pricing hoping to fool consumers that if something is expensive it must be in short supply. WRONG, people are giving away tickets and losing money and until the folks reselling realize that the attendance will keep dropping until it hits a critical mass and folks realize they can get face value tickets the longer they wait.

The secondary market for tickets to sports is out of fucking control and it's killing in stadium attendance because the frightened sellers want to turn a profit at the expense of Joe and Jane Consumer. The worm will or may turn when those ticket sucking brokerage houses realize people don't want to pay those shit prices. That kills in stadium attendance and in turn makes the game shittier to watch on TV. Keep gouging people and they will revolt and that's what we're seeing along with the huge splintering off of specialized entertainment. If MLB and the NFL don't want to die, they will take actual control of tickets and sell them ALL at face value to an end user, not a fucking broker.
I love baseball as much as ever  
Go Terps : 7/11/2018 12:41 am : link
My problem is that being a fan of the Mets has, with few exceptions, been a soul crushing experience for a couple decades. And baseball, unlike the NFL, is a regional thing (at least for me).

Met baseball is in such a state that I'm stuck hoping that a Met fan with a terminal illness kills Fred and Jeff Wilpon. That's where I'm at with baseball.
George Carlin  
mrvax : 7/11/2018 1:26 am : link
knew how to make baseball better. One of his suggestions was "If the batter is hit by a pitch, the batter is out!"
Wasn't there a study last year  
moespree : 7/11/2018 1:31 am : link
That showed Game of Thrones is literally the only thing on television that has had consistent ratings growth year after year? So it makes one wonder, is sports really on the decline, or is entertainment as a whole just not as enticing as it once was? You can catch these things in non traditional means. Perhaps there are many who prefer to watch 3 minutes highlights of baseball on their phones than watch the game live or attend the game. That wouldn't mean interest is declining, rather a new way of experiencing it that isn't being taken into account.
It's weird...  
Dunedin81 : 7/11/2018 8:04 am : link
if you're a baseball nerd the digital age has allowed you to be hardcore. I pay $57/year to watch my out of market team virtually every game. If you're a prospect junkie like me, all the minors games you want for $15. Statistics and analysis galore, down the the complex leagues.

But if you're a casual fan, for the same or even less money you have umpteen entertainment options at your disposal, and maybe you tune in for the playoffs.
Baseball is still great for working in the backyard  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 7/11/2018 8:11 am : link
But until they are older, kids don't have the attention span for it. Soccer, basketball and football still are better suited until they get older, unless they have a parent who is really into it.

I think the shifts and constant pitching changes have put a damper on things, as well.
Moespree  
UConn4523 : 7/11/2018 8:14 am : link
I think as a whole sports doesnít have the same magic and mysticism that it did even just 10/15 years ago. Over saturation is playing a major role. Nothing seems remarkable or extraordinary anymore. Some people are fine watching a 2 minute highlight video of a 2-3 hour game.

Thereís countless reasons and I donít see it getting any easier for the major leagues to increase viewership and revenue.
This..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2018 8:44 am : link
contradicts the trend of baseball:

Quote:
Baseball is going to be on par with Lacrosse in 25 years
Captplanet : 7/10/2018 8:44 pm : link : reply
It's turning into an upper-middle-class sport, that is not attracting kids at a young age


With the influx of Latin Americans to the sport in recent years, it is not an upper-middle-class endeavor, unless you just want to make a sweeping generalization about the white USA players.
I think the regional sports networks have been  
Section331 : 7/11/2018 9:08 am : link
a blessing and a curse to MLB teams. The upside is the increased share of revenue, but now that fans can see every game of their favorite teams, they show little interest in anyone else.

I know it is that way for me. I'll watch the Mets (although not as much lately!), but almost never watch games with other teams. I used to watch BoSox-Yankees, Dodgers-Giants, but no I couldn't care less. That isn't the same with the NFL, I'll watch almost anything that's on.
RE: I think the regional sports networks have been  
Sean : 7/11/2018 9:42 am : link
In comment 14010564 Section331 said:
Quote:
a blessing and a curse to MLB teams. The upside is the increased share of revenue, but now that fans can see every game of their favorite teams, they show little interest in anyone else.

I know it is that way for me. I'll watch the Mets (although not as much lately!), but almost never watch games with other teams. I used to watch BoSox-Yankees, Dodgers-Giants, but no I couldn't care less. That isn't the same with the NFL, I'll watch almost anything that's on.


Bingo. Itís why the narrative that the NFL is in shambles is wildly off base. We all watch non NYG games, not so with MLB.
RE: People keep looking  
MetsAreBack : 7/11/2018 10:22 am : link
In comment 14010468 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
For answers and coming up stupid. This is a digital world now, people aren't glued to their local markets and a few channels carrying their local teams. It's not the ESPN cable era where seeing your team was a treat when you lived out of town. You can watch ANYTHING at any time on just about any platform and people are doing that. There are more channels, platforms, services and options than ever before and people are splintering off to what they really enjoy. You have niche activities that are now in mass appeal that people didn't have access to before and were shamed for going to (video games for instance). People go where they want to do what they want and families aren't sitting around watching the ball game.

Dad may be but the wife is watching her thing, kids are on ipads and tablets and people who don't give a flying shit about a sport aren't forced to watch it. It's real paring down of who is actually WANTING to watch these events. The pie is much bigger and slicers are smaller and there are more consumers than ever. Everyone is shrinking, all the major sports will suffer to a point but they'll adjust and the ad revenue and fight over network control will continue. They'll take a smaller bite, the games will suffer in viewership but people who love it will pony up more money to see it. You really think a Giants Panthers ticket in the 300s is worth $400 per seat? Fuck no, but in this case the demand is low and it humps the demand curve in a way it shouldn't. People are desperate to turn a profit on tickets and they inflate the shit out of prices because there are WAY fewer people willing to sell them. It violates basic supply/demand but it highlights greed because it uses premium pricing hoping to fool consumers that if something is expensive it must be in short supply. WRONG, people are giving away tickets and losing money and until the folks reselling realize that the attendance will keep dropping until it hits a critical mass and folks realize they can get face value tickets the longer they wait.

The secondary market for tickets to sports is out of fucking control and it's killing in stadium attendance because the frightened sellers want to turn a profit at the expense of Joe and Jane Consumer. The worm will or may turn when those ticket sucking brokerage houses realize people don't want to pay those shit prices. That kills in stadium attendance and in turn makes the game shittier to watch on TV. Keep gouging people and they will revolt and that's what we're seeing along with the huge splintering off of specialized entertainment. If MLB and the NFL don't want to die, they will take actual control of tickets and sell them ALL at face value to an end user, not a fucking broker.


This started strong and then went into some weird diatribe about ticket brokers... even though any of us could have seen any Giants game we wanted last year well under face.
RE: ESPN will get right on it after they stop blowing the NBA  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/11/2018 10:38 am : link
In comment 14010256 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
24/7

Meh ESPN is going down the tubes. Feels good man.
RE: I love baseball as much as ever  
giantsFC : 7/11/2018 10:39 am : link
In comment 14010491 Go Terps said:
Quote:
My problem is that being a fan of the Mets has, with few exceptions, been a soul crushing experience for a couple decades. And baseball, unlike the NFL, is a regional thing (at least for me).

Met baseball is in such a state that I'm stuck hoping that a Met fan with a terminal illness kills Fred and Jeff Wilpon. That's where I'm at with baseball.


😂😂😂
That last paragraph was unexpected
RE: Wasn't there a study last year  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/11/2018 10:44 am : link
In comment 14010495 moespree said:
Quote:
That showed Game of Thrones is literally the only thing on television that has had consistent ratings growth year after year? So it makes one wonder, is sports really on the decline, or is entertainment as a whole just not as enticing as it once was? You can catch these things in non traditional means. Perhaps there are many who prefer to watch 3 minutes highlights of baseball on their phones than watch the game live or attend the game. That wouldn't mean interest is declining, rather a new way of experiencing it that isn't being taken into account.

The NFL was like that until a couple of years ago. Visionairies Mara-Roselle-Tagliabue architected a remarkable product that continued to grow every year even in the 21st century and become the world's most successful sports/entertainment franchise in the world.

I thought running the NFL was idiot proof, until Goodell showed me otherwise.
I have definitely noticed  
jpennyva : 7/13/2018 8:41 am : link
that the limiting of mound visits has increased the pace of play. There are some interesting comments here and I found the article interesting. But it doesn't really apply to me. I love sports and would rather watch sports than regular TV. Sports, for me, at the true reality TV. This is the first year my husband and I are partial season ticket holders for the Nationals and its been great and I can't wait to attend all of the All Star game events over the next several days. I do find that I am more excited for the game when the Nationals start doing well playing small ball but those instances are not often. And I love watching Max Scherzer pitch. My eight year old stepson could not care less about baseball and I do think that has to do with the slow pace of play. But if this is a huge problem for MLB, I couldn't offer any suggestions for improving it since I still enjoy baseball.
It's pretty valid but it's not just MLB  
arniefez : 7/13/2018 9:02 am : link
All sports are in a similar boat. They broke the father son bond that was the legacy stuff that kept them growing. They priced fathers out of the games and now the sons don't have the emotional bond previous generations did. It won't be fixed.
Another thing I found going with my son and daughtrr last weekend  
MetsAreBack : 7/13/2018 6:01 pm : link
...We went to the game and sat in the 14th row for $40 a seat - but it was Mets vs tampa so not surprising that part was cheap. Food and drinks were outrageous - easily spent $125 there including $7 cotton candy, $7 coke and $8 popcorn and parking in queens was $25... so I get what some are saying above about it no longer being affordable for a family.

But my kids were most excited about catching a foul ball. Brought their gloves, etc. but ... with all the netting now, which I get it, too many spectators were on their iPhones not paying attention and got nailed in the head .... but with the netting foul balls are way down now. I counted on one hand the balls that went into stands on our side of the field. Kids left bored and disappointed (losing 9-0 didn't help).

I think all the warm comments on football above are misplaced - they have issues now too and it has more to do with fantasy football leveling off than about Goodell.
I wonder why teams donít just lower prices  
Oscar : 7/13/2018 6:26 pm : link
If youíre averaging 27K fans (which is a number I saw in another article) and the stadiums are designed for 40-50K+ you have a bit of an issue.

Watching a game at home has improved dramatically in the last 15 or so years. HDTV and beyond, the ability to watch or follow multiple games simultaneously, rewind, pause. You can easily get great beer and food for much less than you would at a game. There is still something enjoyable about going to a game every now and then but not if itís crazy expensive.

NBA and NHL have smaller buildings at least. Football has far fewer games and tailgating is the main attraction for many. Baseball is sort of the worst of both worlds. Tons of games so not single game feels meaningful until late in the year and huge stadiums.

I also think they need to figure out how to promote their stars. Not sure any baseball player is very famous. Maybe Bryce Harper?
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