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NFT: Knicks Chat 7/11: Hype Level THROUGH THE ROOF

Jon in NYC : 7/11/2018 9:56 am
Kevin Knox looks like the real deal. His shot finally started to fall last night, and it resulted in a very efficient 29 points.

He really does look like the total package. Can score on all 3 levels, defends, passes, rebounds, makes good decisions. I don't care that it's summer league. These are either NBA players or good college players, and all of these guys are older than KK. He's still the best guy on the floor.

He needs to get better finishing with his left, he needs a more consistent jumper and he needs to get stronger, but he's 18, and these are all very fixable things.


Feel Free To Re-live Knox Highlights - ( New Window )
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RE: RE: I can definitely see Knox as a Aaron Gordon type  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/11/2018 11:23 am : link
In comment 14010711 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 14010665 Stu11 said:


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18-20ppg/6-7rpg He's like a hybrid 3/stretch 4. Very excited about his length and athleticism. Obviously it will take some time as he's only 18. We really saw what he can be last night once his shot started to fall. I hope he plays a lot this year. I think Porzi being out the first half may help his development too as it will force him to be a little more aggressive like the Summer League.



I like Gordon but think Knox will eventually become the better player. He's got more shooting potential (from what we've seen so far) than Gordon especially at that age. Knox shows flashes of being elite there, like his outburst last night in the third and at times in college. He has a smooth, quick release with good form so while it may take a year or two, I think he'll become a really good outside shooter, especially for a PF which would make him far more effective off the ball and easier to slot into any lineup than Gordon.


I agree. Gordon is 4 years in without a 3 point shot and is still a substandard free throw shooter. Knox is already better than him both of those areas.
Dotson  
Jon in NYC : 7/11/2018 11:27 am : link
has been playing well on defense, but is just a poor offensive player. He isn't a 3 and D guy...he's a D guy. He just can't put the biscuit in the basket.


Also, Knox is already a better player than Aaron Gordon. More skilled, a comparable athlete, younger.
I  
DanMetroMan : 7/11/2018 11:28 am : link
don't think Doris Burke gets enough credit. She's a woman in a male dominated field and she really, really knows her shit.
RE: Knox looks a lot like Durant  
ColHowPepper : 7/11/2018 11:45 am : link
In comment 14010650 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
Same game and just like Durant, he does not look super smooth. But he has tremendous hand-to-eye coordination and very good elevation.

Knicks might have hit on one.
Nice to see some optimism for this franchise, for a change. But V, Durant, really? I don't see the comp based on the twtr highlights posted by Jon: Knox looks more like a glider, can find the space to take it to the hoop, but in that regard Durant is more of a slasher, quick and twitchy. Their outside shots, yes, can see that.
I  
Jon in NYC : 7/11/2018 11:57 am : link
just listened to the Lowe podcast.

They all made it clear that they really know nothing and it's entirely baseless speculation, re: Durant to the Knicks.
RE: RE: more speculation on the newest lowe poscast  
giants#1 : 7/11/2018 12:05 pm : link
In comment 14010642 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14010635 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


about durant to knicks, howard beck and rachel nichils were on it...




Just to play this game: KP at the 5, Durant at the 4, and Knox at the 3?


Butler at the 2, Frank at the 1!
RE: I  
Really : 7/11/2018 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14010776 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
just listened to the Lowe podcast.

They all made it clear that they really know nothing and it's entirely baseless speculation, re: Durant to the Knicks.


I wasnt following closely when people of their ilk were talking about to Lebron to LA. Does this chatter feel similar at all?
RE: RE: I  
Jon in NYC : 7/11/2018 12:20 pm : link
In comment 14010795 Really said:
Quote:
In comment 14010776 Jon in NYC said:


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just listened to the Lowe podcast.

They all made it clear that they really know nothing and it's entirely baseless speculation, re: Durant to the Knicks.



I wasnt following closely when people of their ilk were talking about to Lebron to LA. Does this chatter feel similar at all?


I wasn't paying attention to the LeBron stuff so I can't comment.

But their points are basically the same as mine, in that it's clear that GSW is not a final stop for Durant. If he leaves I imagine it'll be to come home to DC, be the alpha and try to build something in NY, or to partner with LeBron with the Lakers.
RE: I  
bceagle05 : 7/11/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 14010747 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
don't think Doris Burke gets enough credit. She's a woman in a male dominated field and she really, really knows her shit.

She's a Knicks fan, too!
RE: I  
Stu11 : 7/11/2018 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14010747 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
don't think Doris Burke gets enough credit. She's a woman in a male dominated field and she really, really knows her shit.

Yep she's superb. Very smooth and like you said knows her stuff. A lot of times female analysts try to crowbar a ton of #'s in there to show off. I don't blame them because frankly they have to work that much harder in a male dominated field to get the same respect unfortunately. She really knows how to smoothly work everything into a telecast.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/11/2018 12:37 pm : link
Definitely saw some shades of KD last night with Knox.

This is the first time in as long as I can remember that I was actually happy with the Knicks pick the night they took him.

(Porzi was obviously a great pick - but I was 50/50 on it at the time)

Really excited to see Knox develop. Robinson looks like a swat machine, too. He could be a steal.
robinson needs to learn to keep his hands straight up  
nygiants16 : 7/11/2018 12:40 pm : link
he gets a lot of his fouls because he reaches in
No  
DanMetroMan : 7/11/2018 12:42 pm : link
positive to a major knee injury but at least this means Knox will have a guaranteed major role and likely some confidence he might not already have if KP were here as the alpha. Gotta keep THjr, Kanter and Lee from thinking they are the focal point.
I could see the Knicks  
bceagle05 : 7/11/2018 12:46 pm : link
yet again winning a few more games than people expect, but I think we'll draft a little higher than usual. Maybe around #5-#6, rather than #8-$10. I expect Lee, Timmy and Kanter to all be here, and Frank, Knox, Mario and Burke may be just enough young talent to keep us competitive. Not to mention KP chipping in during the second half of the season.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/11/2018 12:46 pm : link
I hope KP doesn't play at all this coming year, honestly.

It's a perfect scenario to get Knox plenty of PT and experience while still losing enough to be a lotto team.

A 2019 lotto pick + Knox + KP + being legit players in FA and we might only be a year or two away from being back in the mix if this gets handled right.
Well, you can bring Lee off the bench  
bceagle05 : 7/11/2018 12:48 pm : link
but good luck trying to keep Timmy and Kanter from padding those scoring numbers. Timmy thinks he's Dwyane Wade, and Kanter's playing for a long-term contract.
Hicks  
DanMetroMan : 7/11/2018 12:49 pm : link
doesn't look like an NBA player to me.

I hope Hezonja plays so well we are arguing over if the Knicks could have/should have given him a 2nd year/team option and if they should trade him or not.

Troy Williams looks like a find (he's only 23)

Front court is insanely thin when you look at it

Kanter, Robinson (I think he's going to be very good but he's also very raw and appears like fouls will be an issue), Kornet, Lance Thomas, Noah, Knox. Should be major minutes for the kids but on paper the Knicks are going to have major issues at the 3/4/5.
RE: Well, you can bring Lee off the bench  
DanMetroMan : 7/11/2018 12:53 pm : link
In comment 14010831 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
but good luck trying to keep Timmy and Kanter from padding those scoring numbers. Timmy thinks he's Dwyane Wade, and Kanter's playing for a long-term contract.


That's my concern. Kanter trying to get paid and THjr jacking up a million shots. They need to limit Lee's minutes either way but he's going to directly be taking minutes from the Knox, Dotson, Hezonja, Williams group and that just doesn't make sense.
TH  
Jon in NYC : 7/11/2018 12:54 pm : link
Jr firing up a million shots would be great news for the tank.
RE: TH  
DanMetroMan : 7/11/2018 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14010835 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
Jr firing up a million shots would be great news for the tank.


Less so than extra touches/takes from Frank, Knox etc. Ideal situation is Frank taking a step forward, Knox looking like a legit good NBA player, Robinson looking like a "piece", a really bad W/L season where we add a top 5 pick and then KP joins this core.
I just learned yesterday that Timmy  
bceagle05 : 7/11/2018 12:57 pm : link
has a trade kicker in his contract and gets most of his annual salary before each season even starts. Mills was throwing in poison pills on top of all that money. Hopefully Perry and Fizdale keep him under control.
I defended  
Jon in NYC : 7/11/2018 12:59 pm : link
that Hardaway contract, but it's such fucking trash. He's an average offensive player and complete shit defensively. The fact that he's going to cost us a second max is devastating.

RE: RE: TH  
Jon in NYC : 7/11/2018 1:00 pm : link
In comment 14010837 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14010835 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


Jr firing up a million shots would be great news for the tank.



Less so than extra touches/takes from Frank, Knox etc. Ideal situation is Frank taking a step forward, Knox looking like a legit good NBA player, Robinson looking like a "piece", a really bad W/L season where we add a top 5 pick and then KP joins this core.


Yes, getting the young guys burn is ideal. My comment was more about Hardaway being a bad player, so him taking shots = us losing more games = higher pick.

I really think  
Phil in LA : 7/11/2018 1:05 pm : link
The FO learned a lot through all those coaching interviews, even if the evidence suggest Fiz was always the choice. Anyway, I don’t think they’d make a Hardaway mistake again seeing things as they now seem to.
Sometimes it is difficult to remember...  
manh george : 7/11/2018 2:22 pm : link
what a spectacularly idiotic contract Ron Baker got.

On the plus side regarding last night, it is important to note that not only was Frank out, but the Knicks don't have another real developmental pg on the Summer League squad.

Trier actually didn't do so bad, considering that in real life he is an inexperienced chucker 2-guard, with 21 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists and a 61.5% FG percentage, but he can't run or control the team, and the drop-down after him was also huge. This had to hurt 4th quarter performance, and the opportunities for Knox, Robinson and Williams. Williams needs running buddies.

It makes sense that they didn't use another roster spot on a pg, with Mudiay and Burke waiting in the wings, but that makes the absence of Frank more apparent.
Btw, Tim won't be that difficult to control.  
manh george : 7/11/2018 2:25 pm : link
If he doesn't stay within the system, one of the pgs will get a lot of pt at the 2 guard. Tim has to know this.
Knicks  
TyreeHelmet : 7/11/2018 6:42 pm : link
Love everything I’m seeing from Knox. Better athlete than I remember and love his shooting. Didn’t know about his football background.

- It actually seems like an outside possibility now, but imagine a frontline of KP, Knox and Durant?

-Robinson really flashed to me last night. He oozes with potential. Guy is enormous and can fly around. Obviously a major project on offense.

- I’d love if they moved 2/3 of Hardaway/ Lee/ Kanter before the season. Very unlikely though.

- Doris Burke is incredible. Grew up in Manasquan NJ and truly defied the odds. She’s the best.
Mitch Lawrence reporting  
bceagle05 : 7/11/2018 7:29 pm : link
OKC is talking to Brooklyn about a possible Melo deal that would include Jeremy Lin. Hope the Knicks are calling over there, too. We have better players than Jeremy Lin.
RE: Mitch Lawrence reporting  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/11/2018 7:51 pm : link
In comment 14011231 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
OKC is talking to Brooklyn about a possible Melo deal that would include Jeremy Lin. Hope the Knicks are calling over there, too. We have better players than Jeremy Lin.

OKC doesn’t want better players. What they want is to reduce payroll because beyond the salaries they will owe millions in luxury tax because of how far over the cap they are. The Nets are the under the cap, and thus can take back much more salary than they trade away. The Knicks are over and can’t.
Dorris Burke  
Mike from SI : 7/11/2018 8:24 pm : link
is wonderful. So is Knox!
so, assuming no trades, what have we got as a 9-man rotation?  
Del Shofner : 7/11/2018 10:06 pm : link
C: Kanter, Robinson
PF: Knox/Hejonza, Thomas
SF: Hejonza/Knox, THJr
SG: THJr, Frank
PG: Frank, Mudiay, Burke?
RE: so, assuming no trades, what have we got as a 9-man rotation?  
nygiants16 : 7/11/2018 10:14 pm : link
In comment 14011367 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
C: Kanter, Robinson
PF: Knox/Hejonza, Thomas
SF: Hejonza/Knox, THJr
SG: THJr, Frank
PG: Frank, Mudiay, Burke?


my guess burke is backup point with mudiay at the 2..

lance will be the backup 3/4 for now...

knicks really need another big who can play the 4/5...

but fizdale wanta to play small and run
RE: RE: so, assuming no trades, what have we got as a 9-man rotation?  
Anakim : 7/11/2018 10:23 pm : link
In comment 14011370 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14011367 Del Shofner said:


Quote:


C: Kanter, Robinson
PF: Knox/Hejonza, Thomas
SF: Hejonza/Knox, THJr
SG: THJr, Frank
PG: Frank, Mudiay, Burke?



my guess burke is backup point with mudiay at the 2..

lance will be the backup 3/4 for now...

knicks really need another big who can play the 4/5...

but fizdale wanta to play small and run



I know Fizdale said he believes in positionless guards, but Emmanuel Mudiay may legit be the worst SG in NBA history.
RE: RE: RE: so, assuming no trades, what have we got as a 9-man rotation?  
nygiants16 : 7/11/2018 10:26 pm : link
In comment 14011375 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14011370 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 14011367 Del Shofner said:


Quote:


C: Kanter, Robinson
PF: Knox/Hejonza, Thomas
SF: Hejonza/Knox, THJr
SG: THJr, Frank
PG: Frank, Mudiay, Burke?



my guess burke is backup point with mudiay at the 2..

lance will be the backup 3/4 for now...

knicks really need another big who can play the 4/5...

but fizdale wanta to play small and run




I know Fizdale said he believes in positionless guards, but Emmanuel Mudiay may legit be the worst SG in NBA history.


he will be the backup 2 and right now who else is there?

if lee is still here he will most likely be the back up 2
RE: RE: RE: RE: so, assuming no trades, what have we got as a 9-man rotation?  
Anakim : 7/11/2018 10:28 pm : link
In comment 14011377 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14011375 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14011370 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 14011367 Del Shofner said:


Quote:


C: Kanter, Robinson
PF: Knox/Hejonza, Thomas
SF: Hejonza/Knox, THJr
SG: THJr, Frank
PG: Frank, Mudiay, Burke?



my guess burke is backup point with mudiay at the 2..

lance will be the backup 3/4 for now...

knicks really need another big who can play the 4/5...

but fizdale wanta to play small and run




I know Fizdale said he believes in positionless guards, but Emmanuel Mudiay may legit be the worst SG in NBA history.



he will be the backup 2 and right now who else is there?

if lee is still here he will most likely be the back up 2


Dotson would be the backup 2, but as far as Frank, Burke, and Mudiay, Burke is the best shooter and scorer of the 3. He's obviously undersized for the 2, though. Have his talent and skills put into Mudiay's body.
Dotson is not giving me confidence that he  
Del Shofner : 7/11/2018 10:29 pm : link
is going to be in the 9-man rotation. He looks terrible in summer league.
RE: Dotson is not giving me confidence that he  
Anakim : 7/11/2018 10:32 pm : link
In comment 14011384 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
is going to be in the 9-man rotation. He looks terrible in summer league.


Agreed, but I still have hope. Don't forget how well he played down the stretch last year
RE: RE: Dotson is not giving me confidence that he  
Del Shofner : 7/11/2018 10:35 pm : link
In comment 14011386 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14011384 Del Shofner said:


Quote:


is going to be in the 9-man rotation. He looks terrible in summer league.



Agreed, but I still have hope. Don't forget how well he played down the stretch last year


Fair enough. The reason I'm asking about the 9-man rotation is that some of these players are clearly fringe (some of the summer league guys) and others are clearly on the way out (Noah, Lee). I'm trying to get a handle on what the team is really going to look like this year in terms of who gets significant minutes. What about Kornet? Does he have a shot? Unfortunately he hasn't played in the summer league yet.
Realistically I don't think THJR costs us a 2nd max player  
NoGainDayne : 7/11/2018 10:42 pm : link
more likely he costs us a first round pick or two. (or say perhaps someone like Frank if it's Kyrie and Butler) If we have the opportunity to add two stars I do think we will pay the price necessary to dump him.

Don't get me wrong it's still an idiotic and terrible contract but it's not immovable if we have two stars that are willing to sign and are understandably desperate.
Really don't see the need to stretch Noah  
Anakim : 7/11/2018 11:00 pm : link
Wouldn't it be much cheaper and much more manageable if we stretched him NEXT summer? What exactly are we saving money for this season? Do we really need that roster spot? Just trade Courtney Lee and waive Ron Baker.
RE: Really don't see the need to stretch Noah  
adamg : 7/11/2018 11:02 pm : link
In comment 14011406 Anakim said:
Quote:
Wouldn't it be much cheaper and much more manageable if we stretched him NEXT summer? What exactly are we saving money for this season? Do we really need that roster spot? Just trade Courtney Lee and waive Ron Baker.


Is there a difference between stretching him next summer versus stretching him after Sept 1 this year?
RE: RE: Really don't see the need to stretch Noah  
Anakim : 7/11/2018 11:24 pm : link
In comment 14011408 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14011406 Anakim said:


Quote:


Wouldn't it be much cheaper and much more manageable if we stretched him NEXT summer? What exactly are we saving money for this season? Do we really need that roster spot? Just trade Courtney Lee and waive Ron Baker.



Is there a difference between stretching him next summer versus stretching him after Sept 1 this year?


From what I understand, if the Knicks stretch Noah’s deal right now, he would still be owed the same amount of money but it would be spread out over five seasons instead of two. That means rather than owing him 19 million next season and 20 million in 2019, the Knicks would be charged 8 million a year on their cap through the 2022-2023 season. It doesn't make sense as we're not going to contend this year and we're not in the running to add any high-priced guy.

If we wait until next year to stretch Noah, we could gain around 12 million in cap space and we all know the Knicks already have their eyes set on the free agency class of 2019.
RE: RE: Really don't see the need to stretch Noah  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/11/2018 11:26 pm : link
In comment 14011408 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14011406 Anakim said:


Quote:


Wouldn't it be much cheaper and much more manageable if we stretched him NEXT summer? What exactly are we saving money for this season? Do we really need that roster spot? Just trade Courtney Lee and waive Ron Baker.



Is there a difference between stretching him next summer versus stretching him after Sept 1 this year?

No.
Honestly, if no trade is to be found (which is all but certain), you  
Anakim : 7/11/2018 11:33 pm : link
might as well keep and play Noah. Let him be the backup 5. It's not like we're competing this year with Porzingis out for God knows how long. The Knicks need a veteran leader and Noah can be just that.

Besides, at least we know that Noah can play defense. Kanter can't play defense for shit, Robinson should spend most of the year getting stronger and working on his conditioning in the G-League and Kornet is very meh.
RE: Honestly, if no trade is to be found (which is all but certain), you  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/12/2018 12:14 am : link
In comment 14011419 Anakim said:
Quote:
might as well keep and play Noah. Let him be the backup 5. It's not like we're competing this year with Porzingis out for God knows how long. The Knicks need a veteran leader and Noah can be just that.

Besides, at least we know that Noah can play defense. Kanter can't play defense for shit, Robinson should spend most of the year getting stronger and working on his conditioning in the G-League and Kornet is very meh.

Absolutely not. I want no part of Noah’s attitude anywhere near this team.

And if you make it clear to him he’s staring at 2 years of not even dressing, much less playing, it may make him amenable to a buyout that could benefit the team.
Nice article on today's  
aquidneck : 7/12/2018 7:04 am : link
.
Knox- Ojeleye matchup - ( New Window )
RE: Honestly, if no trade is to be found (which is all but certain), you  
TyreeHelmet : 7/12/2018 9:04 am : link
In comment 14011419 Anakim said:
Quote:
might as well keep and play Noah. Let him be the backup 5. It's not like we're competing this year with Porzingis out for God knows how long. The Knicks need a veteran leader and Noah can be just that.

Besides, at least we know that Noah can play defense. Kanter can't play defense for shit, Robinson should spend most of the year getting stronger and working on his conditioning in the G-League and Kornet is very meh.


I see both sides of it. You can either keep him in purgatory and hope to force a buyout. Or play him and see if he can regain any sliver of value to another team. If he proves he's healthy and can play, maybe you can move him.

It just sucks that everything is looking up for the Knicks instead of the 2 monster contracts they have on the books. Imagine if the Knicks had an additional 38 mill in space?
Berman on Trier  
DanMetroMan : 7/12/2018 9:20 am : link
“People underrate his playmaking,’’ one NBA scout said. “He maybe got a stigma as a selfish player but so far his best game in summer league is when he played the entire game at point guard.’’

He also says Trier was the pick at 36 if Robinson didn't fall and Trier claims 2 teams offered to select him if he agreed to a 2 way contract but he prefered picking his team.
RE: RE: Honestly, if no trade is to be found (which is all but certain), you  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/12/2018 11:25 am : link
In comment 14011499 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:

I see both sides of it. You can either keep him in purgatory and hope to force a buyout. Or play him and see if he can regain any sliver of value to another team. If he proves he's healthy and can play, maybe you can move him.

It just sucks that everything is looking up for the Knicks instead of the 2 monster contracts they have on the books. Imagine if the Knicks had an additional 38 mill in space?

Even if Noah were to play reasonably well, finding a team willing to take him in a deal that makes any sense for the Knicks is unlikely. Defense only centers no longer have the value they once did. Even if there is a contender who decides they want one can probably find one cheaper and with less baggage. If by chance there were a team that really wanted him, they’d still have to send back an equally bad contract. MAYBE you find someone willing to do it for an expiring, but it’s a long shot at best.

And again, there’s a big risk going down this road: Noah plays lousy, gets benched and his bad attitude infects the young kids. Or Noah plays decently well, but is unhappy with his playing time and again his bad attidude emerges. No thanks. Keep him far away and hope he’ll want out bad enough to take a buyout.
RE: Berman on Trier  
RAIN : 7/12/2018 12:10 pm : link
In comment 14011514 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
“People underrate his playmaking,’’ one NBA scout said. “He maybe got a stigma as a selfish player but so far his best game in summer league is when he played the entire game at point guard.’’

He also says Trier was the pick at 36 if Robinson didn't fall and Trier claims 2 teams offered to select him if he agreed to a 2 way contract but he prefered picking his team.


This. Great find Dan.

The vision of him as a rotational PG with size, to distribute and defend (when he wants to) is astute. He looked completely different in his last game when distributing with a defined role.
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