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Most refreshing thing about Dave Gettleman

BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/11/2018 4:06 pm
is that he addresses the clear cut needs of the team, or at least what the fans think they are. Oline, now DB, etc.
This D is starting to look very strong  
ZGiants98 : 7/11/2018 4:08 pm : link
And deep. Let’s get this party started!
RE: This D is starting to look very strong  
Jay on the Island : 7/11/2018 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14011075 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
And deep. Let’s get this party started!

The pass rush will be the deciding factor in how this team performs. If Vernon stays healthy and posts 10-12 sacks and Martin breaks out then this should be a top 10 defense. Bettcher can manufacture pressure with exotic blitzes but the Giants really need Martin, Carter, Moss, or Okwara to step up and provide some pass rush.
I'm most excited by Vernon + Betcher  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/11/2018 4:18 pm : link
A tweener that really was not a 4-3 DE, but could be really interesting in a joker/leo role.
Looking forward to DG's use of the waiver wire  
Steve in South Jersey : 7/11/2018 4:18 pm : link
sitting in position #2 for claims.
everyone loved reese  
QB Snacks : 7/11/2018 4:19 pm : link
until they didnt. Fickle nature fans. One day they'll turn on gettlemen too and complain that he was hired bc the mara's want yes men.
RE: RE: This D is starting to look very strong  
ZGiants98 : 7/11/2018 4:24 pm : link
In comment 14011079 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14011075 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


And deep. Let’s get this party started!


The pass rush will be the deciding factor in how this team performs. If Vernon stays healthy and posts 10-12 sacks and Martin breaks out then this should be a top 10 defense. Bettcher can manufacture pressure with exotic blitzes but the Giants really need Martin, Carter, Moss, or Okwara to step up and provide some pass rush.


Agreed but I do think Betcher has the talent he needs. We don’t know how Vernon, Moss, Carter, Okwara are going to look subbing in and out from the outside LB spots but these are impressive dudes athletically. He’s also going to be blitzing from everywhere. Collins will blitz, the middle linebackers will blitz at times... the system is going to create pressure on its own IMO.
RE: Looking forward to DG's use of the waiver wire  
ZGiants98 : 7/11/2018 4:25 pm : link
In comment 14011084 Steve in South Jersey said:
Quote:
sitting in position #2 for claims.


Yeah I still think we aren’t done. I could still see a vet receiver, 4th RB, and swing OT brought in before the start of the season.
so we're entering unicorns and rainbows territory now  
Greg from LI : 7/11/2018 4:26 pm : link
/
RE: RE: Looking forward to DG's use of the waiver wire  
Jay on the Island : 7/11/2018 4:36 pm : link
In comment 14011094 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 14011084 Steve in South Jersey said:


Quote:


sitting in position #2 for claims.



Yeah I still think we aren’t done. I could still see a vet receiver, 4th RB, and swing OT brought in before the start of the season.

I agree with you here, I fully expect another OT to be added along with a 4th RB after final cuts. IMO the locks for the backup spots are Wheeler, Greco, and whoever loses the starting C job between Halapio and Jones. I would love to see Gates or Evan Brown win a backup spot but I think the Giants will want another veteran OT in a backup spot. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if one of those two UDFA OL are stashed on IR with a minor injury.
Yup.. a vet OT would be nice...  
ZGiants98 : 7/11/2018 4:43 pm : link
Think there will be one after cuts. I wouldn’t mind a backup MLB also. Maybe if Darkwa checks out physically he can come back as the 4th RB.

Still wouldn’t mind seeing “you know who” at WR2 but even just a solid vet there might provide some depth.

Definitely feel a few more tweaks are coming.
RE: Yup.. a vet OT would be nice...  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/11/2018 4:46 pm : link
In comment 14011113 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Think there will be one after cuts. I wouldn’t mind a backup MLB also. Maybe if Darkwa checks out physically he can come back as the 4th RB.

Still wouldn’t mind seeing “you know who” at WR2 but even just a solid vet there might provide some depth.

Definitely feel a few more tweaks are coming.


You know who will be a post game 1 pickup. No one wants to take a chance on his legs/feet. They want to pick him up and be able to cut him without paying him the entire year.
Reese addressed needs too.  
Capt. Don : 7/11/2018 5:12 pm : link
He just swung and missed too often.
Be careful....  
Vin_Cuccs : 7/11/2018 5:12 pm : link
Drafting for need usually comes back to hurt teams. Passing on talented players just to fill a perceived need at a moment in time usually leads to busts and reaching.

I like the kid too, but drafting for need is not a very safe or sustainable practice.
Also....  
Vin_Cuccs : 7/11/2018 5:13 pm : link
I would not call this defense or this roster "deep" by any means.
Sort of have my units as  
ZGiants98 : 7/11/2018 5:15 pm : link
QB B
RB A
WR B
TE A-
OL C+ (I finally think it will be above average)
DL B
LB B-
S B
CB B
ST C-
RE: Be careful....  
TommyWiseau : 7/11/2018 5:15 pm : link
In comment 14011145 Vin_Cuccs said:
Quote:
Drafting for need usually comes back to hurt teams. Passing on talented players just to fill a perceived need at a moment in time usually leads to busts and reaching.

I like the kid too, but drafting for need is not a very safe or sustainable practice.


Well we matched need with BPA. No one we drafted at a "need" position was taken over more talented players. Barkley (argubly the top talent in the draft), Hernandez (most teams had a 1st round grade), Carter etc.
RE: Also....  
ZGiants98 : 7/11/2018 5:18 pm : link
In comment 14011147 Vin_Cuccs said:
Quote:
I would not call this defense or this roster "deep" by any means.


Disagree. It’s getting there. McIntosh, Carter, Beal all are expected backups heading in who are young and have talent (assuming McIntosh gets signed). There’s enough veteran help in the secondary in Gay, Riley, Thomas, Williams to fill in the back end.
RE: Sort of have my units as  
adamg : 7/11/2018 5:23 pm : link
In comment 14011150 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
QB B
RB A
WR B
TE A-
OL C+ (I finally think it will be above average)
DL B
LB B-
S B
CB B
ST C-


DeOssie is really good. And Michael Thomas is supposedly a top tier STer. I know that grade probably has more to do with our kicker, but I think there's some nuance to that group that a single grade might not capture.
Depth is about confidence in the ability of your backups to play  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/11/2018 5:24 pm : link
at a helpful level. Hard and unfair to have expectations on rookies.
This team still needs to add depth to the following positions  
Jay on the Island : 7/11/2018 5:24 pm : link
ILB - If Ogletree or Goodson are injured then Munson would step into a starting role. They need a better option there as Munson should be the 7th-8th LB on a team not the primary backup.

WR - With the addition of Beal at CB WR is now the thinnest position on the team. The Giants need one of the young kids to step up or they might seriously consider Dez after week 1.

OT - Wheeler is a very good backup but I would prefer that they bring in another veteran OT.

CB - Beal is talented but he is way behind the other rookies and he might not contribute much year one. I really don't want to see Gay get any significant playing time. Haley is intriguing but they need one of Williams, Webb, Deayon, or Lewis-Harris to step up.
RE: RE: Also....  
Jay on the Island : 7/11/2018 5:28 pm : link
In comment 14011156 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 14011147 Vin_Cuccs said:


Quote:


I would not call this defense or this roster "deep" by any means.



Disagree. It’s getting there. McIntosh, Carter, Beal all are expected backups heading in who are young and have talent (assuming McIntosh gets signed). There’s enough veteran help in the secondary in Gay, Riley, Thomas, Williams to fill in the back end.

You can't really count on McIntosh at the moment as he hasn't practiced once and he might still be unsigned. His injury is very concerning as it was reported to be minor after he was drafted yet he still has suited up. He has missed a lot of time and he wasn't expected to get much playing time this year anyway.
Also, I think it's really unfair to indirectly suggest Reese didn't  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/11/2018 5:32 pm : link
address the needs of the team. He spent his first round picks addressing needs. Nicks was draft because they lost Burress. Flowers was drafted because OL was a clear need. Kenny Phillips was drafted after they lost Gibril Wilson to free agency.
Reese deserved to be fired  
Jay on the Island : 7/11/2018 5:35 pm : link
But he was very unlucky with losing key young players to career ending/altering injuries. Kenny Phillips, Terrell Thomas, Mario Manningham, Steve Smith, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Chad Jones, Jay Alford, and David Wilson. That is an insane amount of young talent especially when you consider most were early picks.
RE: RE: RE: Also....  
ZGiants98 : 7/11/2018 6:39 pm : link
In comment 14011168 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14011156 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


In comment 14011147 Vin_Cuccs said:


Quote:


I would not call this defense or this roster "deep" by any means.



Disagree. It’s getting there. McIntosh, Carter, Beal all are expected backups heading in who are young and have talent (assuming McIntosh gets signed). There’s enough veteran help in the secondary in Gay, Riley, Thomas, Williams to fill in the back end.


You can't really count on McIntosh at the moment as he hasn't practiced once and he might still be unsigned. His injury is very concerning as it was reported to be minor after he was drafted yet he still has suited up. He has missed a lot of time and he wasn't expected to get much playing time this year anyway.


Which is why I said “assuming he gets signed”. If he checks out health wise he appears to have talent. My point was that we would have at least one prospect on the bench theoretically getting groomed at every level. We still have vets like Mauro going to be subbing in and out as well.
RE: RE: Sort of have my units as  
ZGiants98 : 7/11/2018 6:43 pm : link
In comment 14011160 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14011150 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


QB B
RB A
WR B
TE A-
OL C+ (I finally think it will be above average)
DL B
LB B-
S B
CB B
ST C-



DeOssie is really good. And Michael Thomas is supposedly a top tier STer. I know that grade probably has more to do with our kicker, but I think there's some nuance to that group that a single grade might not capture.


Yeah our kicker and punter are clear question marks and we have no established returner either. Our coverage units might be ok but I can’t give us more than a C- based on the current group.
RE: Reese deserved to be fired  
mrvax : 7/11/2018 6:52 pm : link
In comment 14011176 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
But he was very unlucky with losing key young players to career ending/altering injuries. Kenny Phillips, Terrell Thomas, Mario Manningham, Steve Smith, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Chad Jones, Jay Alford, and David Wilson. That is an insane amount of young talent especially when you consider most were early picks.


Good post, Jay.
RE: RE: Reese deserved to be fired  
Dan in the Springs : 7/11/2018 7:35 pm : link
In comment 14011207 mrvax said:
Quote:
In comment 14011176 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


But he was very unlucky with losing key young players to career ending/altering injuries. Kenny Phillips, Terrell Thomas, Mario Manningham, Steve Smith, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Chad Jones, Jay Alford, and David Wilson. That is an insane amount of young talent especially when you consider most were early picks.



Good post, Jay.


I would add that most of those players were proven playmakers in the league, and had it not been for injury they would have been worthy of second contracts.
RE: Be careful....  
Mike from SI : 7/11/2018 8:30 pm : link
In comment 14011145 Vin_Cuccs said:
Quote:
Drafting for need usually comes back to hurt teams. Passing on talented players just to fill a perceived need at a moment in time usually leads to busts and reaching.

I like the kid too, but drafting for need is not a very safe or sustainable practice.


True, but CB is one of those premier positions where you can't go wrong adding good players in the draft.
Breathe of Fresh Air  
SteelGiant : 7/11/2018 10:38 pm : link
Breath not Breathe  
SteelGiant : 7/11/2018 10:40 pm : link
time for bed
RE: Be careful....  
WillVAB : 7/11/2018 10:57 pm : link
In comment 14011145 Vin_Cuccs said:
Quote:
Drafting for need usually comes back to hurt teams. Passing on talented players just to fill a perceived need at a moment in time usually leads to busts and reaching.

I like the kid too, but drafting for need is not a very safe or sustainable practice.


Overrating positional value (Reese) is more egregious than a need oriented approach.
Adam  
joeinpa : 7/12/2018 4:39 am : link
Using what metric do you give Giants an "A"'at quarterback.

Based off of last season, that s pretty generous. Hope you re right, but I think C+ to B- is more in line with how the Giants quarterback position is valued in the football world has these days
RE: everyone loved reese  
Gman11 : 7/12/2018 7:22 am : link
In comment 14011086 QB Snacks said:
Quote:
until they didnt. Fickle nature fans. One day they'll turn on gettlemen too and complain that he was hired bc the mara's want yes men.


People forgot all the "In Reese We Trust" posts don't they?
RE: Depth is about confidence in the ability of your backups to play  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 7/12/2018 11:02 am : link
In comment 14011161 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
at a helpful level. Hard and unfair to have expectations on rookies.

Depth in the NFL is having a system, and filling your 53 man rosters with cast offs that fill out your system.

Something Pats do well, and we have been horrible at.
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