NFT: "Yankees make a strong offer for Machado" - MLB.com

with left shoulder inflammation. I'm sure it isn't a big deal but if he was part of the deal the Red Sox had offered you'd have to imagine that Baltimore isn't agreeing to anything until they know he is healthy.

Gardy has lost a step or more, he's getting doubled up and that used to never happen. I think Wade is faster now.

I think you might have misinterpreted what I wrote. I was saying that pickup up the team option seems likely; $11M for 1 year is reasonable for what he brings and the role he plays.

In the event that he�s not back, I�m assuming super-utility Wade would be the backup CF.

In comment 14011839 bigbluehoya said:

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I think you might have misinterpreted what I wrote. I was saying that pickup up the team option seems likely; $11M for 1 year is reasonable for what he brings and the role he plays. In the event that he�s not back, I�m assuming super-utility Wade would be the backup CF.

Haha. I clicked on the wrong post. my post was in response to bceagle05's 1:03 post.

In comment 14011766 ajr2456 said:

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Not sure if something of the sort was posted in here: The offer was Drury, Tate, Adams, and Josh Rogers. It's moving closer to done.

If this offer is for real, Cashman should do that 100 times out of 100.

Rogers is a fringe swing guy, who on the right team might be a #5 SP. Tate has upside, but doesn't miss a lot of bats for a guy who throws in the high 90's and has good secondary pitches. Adams is a guy who until this spring looked like a legit ML SP. Not sure what happened- rumors of surgery to remove elbow chips in the off-season, but that should not have caused such a long term impact.

The only question in my mind is that the reports yesterday indicated that the Yanks were asking for Machado AND Britton. Is this offer just for Machado or both?

In comment 14011839 bigbluehoya said:

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I think you might have misinterpreted what I wrote. I was saying that pickup up the team option seems likely; $11M for 1 year is reasonable for what he brings and the role he plays. In the event that he�s not back, I�m assuming super-utility Wade would be the backup CF.

Might not work if the Yanks trade for Machado and/or sign him AND Hal wants to stay under the luxury tax line. Depends more on Hal than anything else.

In comment 14011848 rich in DC said:

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In comment 14011766 ajr2456 said: Quote: Not sure if something of the sort was posted in here: The offer was Drury, Tate, Adams, and Josh Rogers. It's moving closer to done. If this offer is for real, Cashman should do that 100 times out of 100. Rogers is a fringe swing guy, who on the right team might be a #5 SP. Tate has upside, but doesn't miss a lot of bats for a guy who throws in the high 90's and has good secondary pitches. Adams is a guy who until this spring looked like a legit ML SP. Not sure what happened- rumors of surgery to remove elbow chips in the off-season, but that should not have caused such a long term impact. The only question in my mind is that the reports yesterday indicated that the Yanks were asking for Machado AND Britton. Is this offer just for Machado or both?

I read that the Phillies were still interested in Britton. They feel the price tag on Machado is too high. It was reported that the Orioles would like to package both players but I don't think it has to be done that way.

In comment 14011848 rich in DC said:

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In comment 14011766 ajr2456 said: Quote: Not sure if something of the sort was posted in here: The offer was Drury, Tate, Adams, and Josh Rogers. It's moving closer to done. If this offer is for real, Cashman should do that 100 times out of 100. Rogers is a fringe swing guy, who on the right team might be a #5 SP. Tate has upside, but doesn't miss a lot of bats for a guy who throws in the high 90's and has good secondary pitches. Adams is a guy who until this spring looked like a legit ML SP. Not sure what happened- rumors of surgery to remove elbow chips in the off-season, but that should not have caused such a long term impact. The only question in my mind is that the reports yesterday indicated that the Yanks were asking for Machado AND Britton. Is this offer just for Machado or both?

I should have added that this also solves most of their Rule 5 decisions in one fell swoop- all three of Tate, Adams and Rogers would have to be added to the 40 man roster this winter or be exposed to Rule 5.

In comment 14011766 ajr2456 said:

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Not sure if something of the sort was posted in here: The offer was Drury, Tate, Adams, and Josh Rogers. It's moving closer to done.

Crap at that price I wouldn't even mind if Manny was just a rental lol

Trying...

In comment 14011839 bigbluehoya said:

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I think you might have misinterpreted what I wrote. I was saying that pickup up the team option seems likely; $11M for 1 year is reasonable for what he brings and the role he plays. In the event that he�s not back, I�m assuming super-utility Wade would be the backup CF.

Just a strange fact that might only interest me. If the Yanks don't trade for any older players and let all of their FA walk this winter, does anyone know who the two oldest remaining players on the roster would be?

Aroldis Chapman (2/28/88) and
Dellin Betances (3/23/88)

But Wade has to start proving that he can get on base with any regularity for that to be worthwhile.


Regarding Britton, I don't give a damn if they got him or not. He's nothing special anymore.

I'm not 100% confident that the Yankees pick up Gardner's option or that it guarantees him a starting position even if they do. The idea that there's nowhere for Frazier to play simply is untrue.

In comment 14011820 bigbluehoya said:

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In comment 14011814 Tesla said: Quote: In comment 14011802 arcarsenal said: Quote: I'm fairly certain they're going to pick up his option. Not sure why everyone is so certain about picking up Gardner's option. It's essentially a $10 million option...and based on last years Free Agent market I can't see anyone paying a 36 year old Gardner $10 million a year. If the Yanks bring him back I think they declined the option and see if he takes $6 or $7 million to return. Superb defensive OF with a .350 OBP and some sneaky/streaky power? $11M isn�t crazy. For what he�s been to the org, I doubt they�d dick him around to save $2-3M for a year. If he took less AAV elsewhere, he�d get more term in exchange for sure.

and IIRC, he has the best 1st to home and 2nd to home times in baseball. Great on the basepaths.

As of right now, there's nowhere for Frazier to play - so, no, it isn't "simply untrue" and I would bet that there's a better chance Gardner is back than not. Even if he isn't, Hicks will be - so, someone has to be a part-timer. I'm not convinced there's going to be a clear path for Frazier even next year. Obviously nothing is set in s

I'd prefer to keep him but if he helps us get a SP, I'd do it - and if he's the biggest piece in a deal for Machado I'm still pretty sure I'd do it.

I don't think Frazier necessarily is or should be considered untouchable.

Has had some big hits against the Yankees and I understand he's 21. But his numbers on both sides of the ball are pretty awful. He's a negative WAR player (even though I think WAR is a BS stat) and his OPS + is in the low 90's.

Sorry, that should say obviously nothing is set in stone*

make the trade for Manny is that basically saying they will trade Andujar? I have become a huge fan of his and would hate to see him go. I just don�t see where he plays long term though.

RH pitchers in this series. Hopefully after last night Wade starts every game.

In comment 14011871 arcarsenal said:

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As of right now, there's nowhere for Frazier to play - so, no, it isn't "simply untrue" and I would bet that there's a better chance Gardner is back than not. I don't think Frazier necessarily is or should be considered untouchable.

"As of right now" isn't all an intelligent decision should be based on. He's a 23 year-old prospect, not a loaf of bread that will spoil if it's not eaten by the end of the season or the trading deadline. Are they really going to be handing a starting OF spot in 2019 to a soon to be 35 year-old?

In comment 14011745 robbieballs2003 said:

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In comment 14011737 adamg said: Quote: And the bats coming alive would keep the trolls away until at least game time... Also, if they could switch Andujar for Frazier in that package. That would be ideal. Why would putting Andujar over Frazier into a deal be ideal? I'm curious. It is no guarantee that even if we get Machado that he resigns with us so Andujar is insurance and can still be flipped for a SP in the future as part of a package. Andujar has proven himself as a rookie in the majors which is more than can be said for Frazier at this point. And where would Frazier play if he is kept? The OF is already crowded.

Ideal was too strong. Obviously this was before the asshat info that it wouldn't take either one to get the deal done, so now I'm going away from this. But my thinking was simply that Andujar reminds me a bit too much of Starlin, so if you're straight swapping him for Machado (obviously assuming Machado is coming here for the long haul), you're improving the fielding on the corner spot and you're adding a top of the order bat. I do that and keep Frazier simply as a guy who might actually play on the team. I don't know if Andujar can be a front of the order bat with how few walks he gets. Although, he has been getting better seeing pitches lately, imo.

Getting Machado displaces Andujar's spot in the larger scheme of things is mostly what I meant. Rather have Frazier who might actually play. How much could Andujar play if he's behind Manny?

But trading him for a rental or a less than elite pitcher makes no sense when he very easily could be a starting OF in 2019.

In comment 14011887 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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In comment 14011871 arcarsenal said: Quote: As of right now, there's nowhere for Frazier to play - so, no, it isn't "simply untrue" and I would bet that there's a better chance Gardner is back than not. I don't think Frazier necessarily is or should be considered untouchable. "As of right now" isn't all an intelligent decision should be based on. He's a 23 year-old prospect, not a loaf of bread that will spoil if it's not eaten by the end of the season or the trading deadline. Are they really going to be handing a starting OF spot in 2019 to a soon to be 35 year-old?

My point is it's all going to depend on whether or not Gardner is back, and we have no idea as of now whether he will or won't be - but Gardner is here now, and Frazier isn't getting PT. He's getting shuttled back and forth between here and SWB because there's nowhere for him to play. That's reality.

I didn't say he had to play this year or that he'd spoil if he didn't You're making an argument against nothing with comments like that.

I personally think Gardner will be back, but we'll see. If he is, there's still not going to be a clear opening for Frazier. It'll be 5 guys trying to fill 3 spots. If dealing Frazier can help improve the pitching, I wouldn't be against it.

Besides, as someone noted earlier, OFers aren't that difficult to find or acquire.

Machado does not mean that Machado is our starting 3B in 2019. Those are two different events. No decision has to be made on Andujar immediately if we get Machado. What if we get Machado, trade Andujar, and Machado signs somewhere else in the offseason? Who is our 3B then? Odds are if we trade for Machado that we will resign him long term but until he signs a contract that cannot be assumed.

Jon Heyman

2m2 minutes ago

don't know yanks offer for machado. do know it doesn't include Sheffield or Frazier. they have a long list of fine prospects, however. in any case, doesn't appear sides are close yet.

In comment 14011906 robbieballs2003 said:

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Machado does not mean that Machado is our starting 3B in 2019. Those are two different events. No decision has to be made on Andujar immediately if we get Machado. What if we get Machado, trade Andujar, and Machado signs somewhere else in the offseason? Who is our 3B then? Odds are if we trade for Machado that we will resign him long term but until he signs a contract that cannot be assumed.

I understand what you are saying, but let�s say the Yankees get Manny and sign him. What happens to Andujar at that point?

In comment 14011906 robbieballs2003 said:

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Machado does not mean that Machado is our starting 3B in 2019. Those are two different events. No decision has to be made on Andujar immediately if we get Machado. What if we get Machado, trade Andujar, and Machado signs somewhere else in the offseason? Who is our 3B then? Odds are if we trade for Machado that we will resign him long term but until he signs a contract that cannot be assumed.

Of course, but I'm assuming if a deal is made for him, there's probably some degree of confidence that he's going to be here long term.

I really don't think Machado will wind up coming here as a rental. Obviously he'll be encouraged to test the waters, but I'm guessing the FO would be confident they could offer him enough to stick around for the long-haul.

In comment 14011914 mattyblue said:

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In comment 14011906 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Machado does not mean that Machado is our starting 3B in 2019. Those are two different events. No decision has to be made on Andujar immediately if we get Machado. What if we get Machado, trade Andujar, and Machado signs somewhere else in the offseason? Who is our 3B then? Odds are if we trade for Machado that we will resign him long term but until he signs a contract that cannot be assumed. I understand what you are saying, but let�s say the Yankees get Manny and sign him. What happens to Andujar at that point?

He goes down to AAA and is insurance in case something happens with Didi or Machado in terms of injuries. He is also insurance in case Machado leaves in FA. He is also a trade chip now as well.

Why are so many concerned with what is going to happen with Andujar? It isn't like his life is being sacrificed to please the Gods.

as others have said, Didi will be 30 when he is a FA and might demand a contract more expensive than we are willing to spend. So maybe Didi becomes the trade chip, Machado moves to SS, and Andujar stays at third.

My point is that nothing needs to be decided now.

In comment 14011917 robbieballs2003 said:

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In comment 14011914 mattyblue said: Quote: In comment 14011906 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Machado does not mean that Machado is our starting 3B in 2019. Those are two different events. No decision has to be made on Andujar immediately if we get Machado. What if we get Machado, trade Andujar, and Machado signs somewhere else in the offseason? Who is our 3B then? Odds are if we trade for Machado that we will resign him long term but until he signs a contract that cannot be assumed. I understand what you are saying, but let�s say the Yankees get Manny and sign him. What happens to Andujar at that point? He goes down to AAA and is insurance in case something happens with Didi or Machado in terms of injuries. He is also insurance in case Machado leaves in FA. He is also a trade chip now as well. Why are so many concerned with what is going to happen with Andujar? It isn't like his life is being sacrificed to please the Gods.

yes i agree. btw andujar would not be sent down, DH at the very least IMO...problem is it could make stanton an everyday OF, but i still expect andujar to be on the 40 man. that is if he isnt traded. my guess is if the yanks make this move for MM, they feel they can a. extend him b. have a deal for a SP that includes andujar. its possible frazier never gets traded and remains on roster. andujar + for a SP and the above package of 4 for MM.

Jon Morosi
‏
Verified account


Trade Deadline #TBT: @Yankees talked about acquiring David Price from the #Tigers and Cole Hamels from the #Phillies, three years ago this month. Two prospects Brian Cashman would not trade: Luis Severino and Aaron Judge. @MLB @MLBNetwork

In comment 14011933 Dave in Hoboken said:

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Jon Morosi ‏ Verified account Trade Deadline #TBT: @Yankees talked about acquiring David Price from the #Tigers and Cole Hamels from the #Phillies, three years ago this month. Two prospects Brian Cashman would not trade: Luis Severino and Aaron Judge. @MLB @MLBNetwork

Damn skippy

In comment 14011933 Dave in Hoboken said:

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Jon Morosi ‏ Verified account Trade Deadline #TBT: @Yankees talked about acquiring David Price from the #Tigers and Cole Hamels from the #Phillies, three years ago this month. Two prospects Brian Cashman would not trade: Luis Severino and Aaron Judge. @MLB @MLBNetwork

Whatever. Cashman�s useless.

-Essex

In comment 14011926 BleedBlue said:

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In comment 14011917 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: In comment 14011914 mattyblue said: Quote: In comment 14011906 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Machado does not mean that Machado is our starting 3B in 2019. Those are two different events. No decision has to be made on Andujar immediately if we get Machado. What if we get Machado, trade Andujar, and Machado signs somewhere else in the offseason? Who is our 3B then? Odds are if we trade for Machado that we will resign him long term but until he signs a contract that cannot be assumed. I understand what you are saying, but let�s say the Yankees get Manny and sign him. What happens to Andujar at that point? He goes down to AAA and is insurance in case something happens with Didi or Machado in terms of injuries. He is also insurance in case Machado leaves in FA. He is also a trade chip now as well. Why are so many concerned with what is going to happen with Andujar? It isn't like his life is being sacrificed to please the Gods. yes i agree. btw andujar would not be sent down, DH at the very least IMO...problem is it could make stanton an everyday OF, but i still expect andujar to be on the 40 man. that is if he isnt traded. my guess is if the yanks make this move for MM, they feel they can a. extend him b. have a deal for a SP that includes andujar. its possible frazier never gets traded and remains on roster. andujar + for a SP and the above package of 4 for MM.

DH? What about Stanton?????


Andujar goes down like Monica did on Bubba.

doesn't mean he is magically cured of whatever malaise afflicted his bat during his brief tenure in the majors, but he is much better than a .157 hitter and he has the ability to impact games with his speed to an extent that nobody else on the 40-man can. And he plays above average defense at a handful of positions.

if that asshat deal got it done. When the entire forum says that's a steal, it's probably too good to be true. Especially when we have quite a few people here who fall in the love with the prospects in general.

In comment 14011942 illmatic said:

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if that asshat deal got it done. When the entire forum says that's a steal, it's probably too good to be true. Especially when we have quite a few people here who fall in the love with the prospects in general.

point is that the Orioles waited too long to deal Manny and the price is going down because the Os want to trade him before they lose him to FA. It may bump up, but they are in dump mode and will be willing to trade for prospects.

but the ask is still high, because MVP-caliber players even as rentals have historically drawn a big return (though Cespedes and JD Martinez were not MVP-caliber players when traded). But Angelos is an obstacle, because he might sooner sit on a good but not great package than take what he can get.

is that Cashman can work in his usual stealth mode with other teams for pitching. Reporters now are focused on the "Manny to the Yankees" scenario as the major story. Now while this could happen,Cashman won't have as much focus on the pitching aspect & this is when he works best. Who knows,the Yankees might have been the ones planting the initial Manny rumors to serve as a deflection!

One thing really interferes with your analysis:

Levine and Trost were in charge for many of those down years. This is a matter of record. Their strategy, signings and intrusions are well documented.

Organizational reporting and a clear reporting line and clear decision rights from Cashman to Hal was first contractually established on October 10th, 2014.

2015, 2016 and 2017 were all on Cashman.

We agree that starting pitching FA have not gone so well for the Yankees with or without Cashman fully operating as a GM. Except for Pettite, Clemens, Hernandez, Tanaka, CC, Mussina and a few other HOF and near HOF pitchers.

Also Cashman gets a ton of credit and rightfully so, but the scouting and particularly player development folks were overhauled over the last few years and the results have been quite good. Eppler, Denbo and a number of the guys now in those positions have been some of the most effective in baseball at what they do.

another way to characterize it may be that they're not necessarily trying to drive the ask for Machado up so much as they're trying to drive the ask for some of the pitchers down by implying that they're not prioritizing pitching in their deadline moves.

was just on the MKS. I only heard half of the interview. He doesn't think the Yanks or red sux are getting him. He thinks that he will go to either Milwaukee, L.A. or Arizona.

barbeach: Keith: Thanks so much for doing these chats. Loved your book. If you�re Cashman, who are you NOT willing to part with to get Machado?
Keith Law: There�s no way I trade Sheffield, who could probably be their fifth starter in the second half, for two months of Machado. I�m not sure I�d trade him for any rental, really.

In comment 14011982 mitch300 said:

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was just on the MKS. I only heard half of the interview. He doesn't think the Yanks or red sux are getting him. He thinks that he will go to either Milwaukee, L.A. or Arizona.

he made it a point to say that it was his gut feeling and nothing more and that he was guessing...he also said yankees are very kuch in it

In comment 14011957 Dunedin81 said:

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but the ask is still high, because MVP-caliber players even as rentals have historically drawn a big return (though Cespedes and JD Martinez were not MVP-caliber players when traded). But Angelos is an obstacle, because he might sooner sit on a good but not great package than take what he can get.

Can't blame him if he does, but he will get a very good package for Manny. Maybe not "knock his socks off" very good, still very good.

Yep.

Imo, its fair to call out the period post the re-org on its own results and not lump them in with prior practices and preferences for long term contracts, older "stars" and guys who did not quite fit.

I point out that the cascade of tax deferements and Stadium financing payment terms also played a behind the scenes role in the new strategic direction

In comment 14011942 illmatic said:

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if that asshat deal got it done.

Yeah, you could fit an aircraft carrier through the gap between the Orioles wanting Sheffield and the Yankees giving up Drury, Adams, Tate, and Rogers.

In comment 14011994 Milton said:

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In comment 14011942 illmatic said: Quote: if that asshat deal got it done. Yeah, you could fit an aircraft carrier through the gap between the Orioles wanting Sheffield and the Yankees giving up Drury, Adams, Tate, and Rogers.

IDK, Drury is MLB-ready and potentially an above-average regular, and he has team control. Adams's star is on the way down, Tate (to an extent) on the way up, but each has been a top 100 prospect. And Rogers is a back end guy. It's not a terrible package.

In comment 14012000 Dunedin81 said:

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In comment 14011994 Milton said: Quote: In comment 14011942 illmatic said: Quote: if that asshat deal got it done. Yeah, you could fit an aircraft carrier through the gap between the Orioles wanting Sheffield and the Yankees giving up Drury, Adams, Tate, and Rogers. IDK, Drury is MLB-ready and potentially an above-average regular, and he has team control. Adams's star is on the way down, Tate (to an extent) on the way up, but each has been a top 100 prospect. And Rogers is a back end guy. It's not a terrible package.

Agreed, it's a bit of quantity over quality but not a terrible package. If they spice it up by subbing one of their high end arms in A ball or below (i.e. Medina, Schmidt, Sauer, Garcia) for Rogers it becomes a really solid offer.