I am knee deep in getting the master list ready for this upcoming draft scouting season....but here are some thoughts on NYG/Sam Beal selection.
*When I scouted Western Michigan CB Darius Phillips last year, I have 2 separate notes saying Beal was the top CB on that team by a wide margin. Part of that was me not thinking as highly of Phillips as some (he ended up being selected at the end of round 5 by CIN).
*What makes Beal attractive are height/speed numbers. He is 6'0+ with length and speed. That is always a nice combination especially if the player has some ball skills and other skills that are required at CB.
*Beal plays really aggressive. He is hands on, will throw his hat in to an oncoming pile of traffic. His head is always on a swivel, he plays hard. Always in the game, always making the effort to get the job done. Again, another good trait for the position.
*What I don't like...well there are a few things. His presence on contact is minimal. Even though he does play hard, he doesn't make much of a difference when he contacts a receiver off the line, especially a physical one. He doesn't hit hard on tackle attempts, ball carriers can bounce off him pretty easily. Beal needs to add power and strength to his game, no doubt. Not as important or a CB as it is for a S or LB obviously, but it still matters.
*He also just doesn't show a ton of stability and balance in coverage. He has the quickness and speed, but there are a lot of recovery steps in his game. He doesn't always track the ball well, as he is often falling to the side or trying to re-gather himself on change of direction movement.
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I wouldn't expect much out of Beal in 2018. He is getting in to the program late and I view him as a raw prospect that needs at least a year of strength and stability work to help improve his technique and skills. If I had to puta grade on him, it would have revolved around the 3rd/4th round region. I have no issues with the pick, it is basically getting a head start on someone that can impact this defense in 2019. He isn't a bad kid, didn't get in to trouble. His situation and reasoning for entering the Supplemental Draft was a simple miscommunication between him and the school regarding his credits.
After the draft I said the CB group was probably the biggest weakness on this team, so this is a move in the right direction but I'm not sure it helps for 2018.
"Walter Football gives the pick an A+ grade.
The Giants were rewarded the second pick in each round of the supplemental draft, so they had the ability to select Sam Beal in the third frame before everyone else, save for the Raiders. Oakland was the only team that could have chosen Beal ahead of New York, so one has to wonder if Jon Gruden was tanning on some beach and not really paying attention because the Raiders really could have used Beal.
New York was able to greatly benefit from Oakland's incompetence. Beal is a terrific talent, and it could be argued that he would have been a late first-round pick in the 2019 NFL Draft. Being able to nab him in the third round is an absolute steal, and the Giants deserve an A+ grade as a result. With Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Ross Cockrell gone, New York had a big need at corner, which Beal should be able to fill. He'll be off to a slow start after missing OTAs, but it wouldn't surprise me if he found his way into the starting lineup by the middle of the season."
Beal is a tall, lengthy corner with great ball skills. He might have problems with speedy receivers, but he'll almost certainly boost a Giants secondary that needed an upgrade.
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Are you familiar with him at all? Not pointing a finger, just asking where the expectation is coming from. I tend not to expect anything after the 2nd round.
So you don't expect anything from BJ Hill this year?
He has been getting rave reviews by everyone. I expect him to contribute long before week 8.
Who doesn't get rave reviews in june though? It's the time of year where every player in the league "puts on 10 pounds of muscle", "feels better than he has in years" etc.
Hill can be a good, smart draft pick and also not necessarily make an impact as a rookie.
The only opinion that matters is Gettleman's. That's fine, but it's hard to believe there aren't gonna be guys with similar skills and question marks in the middle rounds next year.
It's not yet known what round the Browns bid, but it was probably the third. The Browns had the fourth pick in each round behind the Raiders, Jets, and Giants. The Broncos rounded out the top five.
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I'm with you on this and think Sy may be too negative. Most have him as a top 5 or 6 corner coming out next year, which sounds like a second rounder to me.
It's not yet known what round the Browns bid, but it was probably the third. The Browns had the fourth pick in each round behind the Raiders, Jets, and Giants. The Broncos rounded out the top five. Link - ( New Window )
a) At 1:00 p.m., the League office will notify all clubs that the first round has begun.
b) Clubs will then have 10 minutes, with the time limit running concurrently for all Clubs, to respond if they wish to select in Round One. All responses should be immediate. This is in lieu of the procedure used during the regular Draft under which an individual club’s allotted time limit does not begin until the Club ahead of it has made its selection.
c) Any club that knows in advance that it will pass the opportunity to select for the entire seven rounds, or for a specific number of rounds fewer than seven, is requested to advise the League office prior to the beginning of the Draft. intentions will be kept confidential from other clubs and will be used only to expedite this process.
d) If a player is selected in a given round — even if selected by more than one club — the selections will be compiled and the player will be awarded to the club that holds priority. Clubs are to be notified immediately of players awarded to other clubs. Clubs that hold more than one choice in a round must indicate to the League office which choice they are using for the selection.
If you base everything on one guy's opinion. Other people are way higher on him and thought he was a mid to late 1st round/early 2nd round guy in 2019.
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From my vantage point I was thinking he could be a productive 4th corner by the end of the season and maybe even an average 3rd corner by **wishful thinking** playoff time.
Is your view that this kind of outcome is extremely unlikely or were you more saying to not to expect much in the vein that he is a 3rd round pick and hope of him matching up well on a #1 or #2 receiver should be reserved for two seasons from now?
Multiple 3rd round picks make impacts. But that is after rookie mini camp, team mini camp/OTAs, and training camp.
Beal misses the first 2 of those due to the situation.
I also think this defense is going to error towards the more experienced corners they have on the roster. They went shopping for a bunch of average to below average veterans. Stop gaps type. I don't see Beal all of the sudden passing them with such limited practice time.
I doubt it. Beal will have training camp and preseason games to show what he’s got. I don’t see DG burning draft capital for a guy to redshirt.
My guess is he sees snaps in some packages pretty early in the season and plays a larger role if there’s any injuries.
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In comment 14011800 NoGainDayne said:
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From my vantage point I was thinking he could be a productive 4th corner by the end of the season and maybe even an average 3rd corner by **wishful thinking** playoff time.
Is your view that this kind of outcome is extremely unlikely or were you more saying to not to expect much in the vein that he is a 3rd round pick and hope of him matching up well on a #1 or #2 receiver should be reserved for two seasons from now?
Multiple 3rd round picks make impacts. But that is after rookie mini camp, team mini camp/OTAs, and training camp.
Beal misses the first 2 of those due to the situation.
I also think this defense is going to error towards the more experienced corners they have on the roster. They went shopping for a bunch of average to below average veterans. Stop gaps type. I don't see Beal all of the sudden passing them with such limited practice time.
I doubt it. Beal will have training camp and preseason games to show what he’s got. I don’t see DG burning draft capital for a guy to redshirt.
My guess is he sees snaps in some packages pretty early in the season and plays a larger role if there’s any injuries.
My summary of this pick is simple: Beal was WORTH a 3rd round pick next year NOW cause CB is a position of NEED.
Now, is Dominique Rodgers-Cromarties still a UFA? I'd love for us to sign him despite last year's antics. He'd play nickel over Gay I'm sure.
Well sure, everyone's great until they play.
But again, this is not the old days where you had two-a-days plus many more days of actual practice, including full pads.
11 practices before the pre-season.
There are many more practices before the regular season and 4 pre-season games that he should see a lot of action in.
He either has talent or he doesn't.....
With lack of depth on this team, it's quite possible he will be thrown into the fire......he might be better in 2019? Well, yes, but we need him this year....
And this, btw, is where I have so much more confidence in Bettcher and the current collection of position coaches than I did in Spags and his underlings. And that goes double for Shurmur on the offensive side of the ball. The Giants haven't had an OC-DC combination like this since the days of Fassel and John Fox. Big difference is that Shurmur has been given a helluva lot more talent than Fassel ever had (and that includes the OL!).
Very excited for this season and surprised by the modest expectations that some on BBI have. It all comes down to health, but that's always going to be the case for any team not named Bill Belichick. Instead of asking yourself how much better is the current team than the one that went 3-13 in 2017, we should be asking how much better is it than the team that went 11-5 in 2016 and should've, could've, would've beaten the Packers in Green Bay in the playoffs.
But I digress....
I think its a bit optimistic to think Beal can walk in the door in middle of July and start contributing much, if anything, until later in the season.
btw - what in the world makes you think we "should've" won anything in Green Bay 2 years ago...because Eli threw a few passes that got dropped in 1qtr? The second half was a beating on both sides of the ball, and last I recall the game is 60 minutes...just sayin'
He either has talent or he doesn't.....
This is pretty dumb even in the context of just your posts.
Many years earlier, a clause about sudden death in a playoff game had been written into the NFL’s bylaws for such an instance. However, while never tested prior to the ’58 title bout, there was an experiment with sudden death in a preseason game three years before the the Colts-Giants clash.
The Giants were set to face the Los Angeles Rams on Aug. 28, 1955 in a game to be played at Multnomah Stadium in Portland, Oregon. The game’s promoter, Harry Glickman, had sought and received permission from the NFL to use sudden death should the game end in a tie at the end of regulation. Glickman’s motivation for having the overtime rule in affect was more for a publicity stunt to sell tickets. )
As fate would have it, the rule was put to a test that day. The Giants, who were led by quarterback Charley Conerly and Hall of Fame halfback Frank Gifford, took an early 10-0 first quarter lead. The Rams’ Tank Younger narrowed the margin on a five-yard run in the second quarter as the half ended with the Giants in front 10-7.
Los Angeles struck twice in third quarter and jumped ahead 17-10. The Giants’ Alex Webster scored on a three-yard TD run to knot the game in the middle of the fourth quarter and the score remained even at 17-17 when the final gun sounded.
Following a bit of confusion, referee Ross Bowen consulted with Rams owner Dan Reeves and New York’s General Manager Wellington Mara. It was agreed that the sudden death period would be played.
“I didn’t think there was a chance in a million it would be used,” Glickman was quoted as saying after the game.
The sudden-death period, however, did not last very long. The Rams won the coin toss and, guided by Hall of Fame quarterback Norm Van Brocklin, constructed an eight-play, 70-yard drive that culminated with a two-yard TD plunge by Younger. The winning tally came just three minutes and 28 seconds into the extended play.
Don't be so touchy...once that team fell behind 2 scores it was over. Should've, could've and would've played no part.
And i hope Bettcher brings his A-game in player development as well, it would be a nice change of pace with the defensive coaches we have had here for over a decade...
Don't be so touchy...once that team fell behind 2 scores it was over. Should've, could've and would've played no part.
Keith Hamilton grabbing the Raven RB's arm as he was coming thru the wash of players. The penalty was legit.
just sayin'
Don't be so touchy...once that team fell behind 2 scores it was over. Should've, could've and would've played no part.
And i hope Bettcher brings his A-game in player development as well, it would be a nice change of pace with the defensive coaches we have had here for over a decade...
Googs, we were kicking their ass! Rodgers was sacked a bunch of times in the first half and had deer in the headlights and swivel with virtually every dropback. Yes, it’s a 60 minute game, yada, yads, yada, but the Killers were Wing’s horrific punt and of course the Hail Mary. No question in my mind we would have continued to pummel them but the prodigious momentum swing of that Hail Mary(as with us in 2012 playoff with GB) was mind-numbing. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw how much that took the air out of them. DRC’s huge injury cemented things that 2nd half when they destroyed us
Keith Hamilton grabbing the Raven RB's arm as he was coming thru the wash of players. The penalty was legit.
just sayin'
And Rodgers was unstoppable starting near the end of the first half, so that "pummeling" you mentioned, didnt bother him at all.
And, yes the DRC injury hurt but they also lost Jordy Nelson early so lets call it a wash.
My guess is if OBJ and the others had hung onto the TDs early we would have had a nice lead, but would have been hanging on for a dear lives in the 4qtr as Rodgers staged his comeback.
As I said...its a 60 minute game.
And Rodgers was unstoppable starting near the end of the first half, so that "pummeling" you mentioned, didnt bother him at all.
this is where we differ. Imo, Rodgers was ONLY unstoppable once the Hail Mary, renewed his confidnce. Prior to that he was hearing footsteps. I believe(not that it matters of course) his happy feet would have continued had the hail mary bulb not gone on..And of course, we’ll never know
Once they started rolling him out of the pocket, he started picking us apart down the middle. His Oline picked it up on the second half too as our guys were getting hits on him any longer.
Beal may need essentially need a red shirt year. He seems to be a solid press-man corner, which seems to be what Bettcher prefers. From all reports Beal has a decent toolset, attitude and work ethic; we also shouldn't forget that coming from a smaller school, he is likely to be a little raw.
A year of seasoning should put Beal in a decent place to be our #3CB in 2019. Aaron Wellman, Stallworth and Patel should address size issues; DeShea Townsend and Lou Anarumo should be able to work on his technique. We also have a bunch of veterans behind Apple and Jenkins who have been brought in for their intangibles.
I could also see Beal making some contribution late in the season, either on special teams or perhaps cameo spot roles in sub packages on the outside.
Gettleman and our coaching staff must see enough potential in Beal to make the pick. I am curious to see how he goes in training camp and preseason. I am not expecting too much this season, but this seems to be a move that could pay off in 2019.
I’m kinda cynical as to how much is RETAINED by newbies who, after the last minicamp have nearly 2 months before training camp to forget the hands on, etc..Classroom/playbook study, fine, it helps to have a head start, imv. Hands on, practice in shorts, then nearly a few months of nothing, sorry, not concerned. To be clear, it never hurts per se, but to be a quantum head start over Beal, for example? Sorry, not convinced
Clarence Beeks!
this season He could use a few ponds of muscle and he has
good players to learn from a Savvy vet like Jack Rabbit and
Gay and a young Apple who is still learning himself and likely has a better view now on what it takes to play at this level . Hopefully he turns out to be a good one great size and decent speed that you can't teach .
Tough to imagine Beal can make an impact early this season based on pure reasonable timing. But he sure gets strong accolades and if that translates to the NFL game then the Giants made a good move.
Anyone relying on Eli Apple to turn it around is doing so on pure "hope", and it actually may be a hope and a prayer...
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who were drafted regularly have had almost three months of time, including minicamps, OTAs and hands on time with coaches more than Beal has to prepare. It's significant.
I’m kinda cynical as to how much is RETAINED by newbies who, after the last minicamp have nearly 2 months before training camp to forget the hands on, etc..Classroom/playbook study, fine, it helps to have a head start, imv. Hands on, practice in shorts, then nearly a few months of nothing, sorry, not concerned. To be clear, it never hurts per se, but to be a quantum head start over Beal, for example? Sorry, not convinced
I think you're kind of discounting the work involved in getting rookies prepared for this level. If what you were saying is the case, then why would coaches even hold those camps. Training camp is essentially just two weeks long, and just about every coach that's ever been interviewed on the topic grumbles about not having enough practice time even for veteran players.
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In comment 14013974 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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who were drafted regularly have had almost three months of time, including minicamps, OTAs and hands on time with coaches more than Beal has to prepare. It's significant.
I’m kinda cynical as to how much is RETAINED by newbies who, after the last minicamp have nearly 2 months before training camp to forget the hands on, etc..Classroom/playbook study, fine, it helps to have a head start, imv. Hands on, practice in shorts, then nearly a few months of nothing, sorry, not concerned. To be clear, it never hurts per se, but to be a quantum head start over Beal, for example? Sorry, not convinced
I think you're kind of discounting the work involved in getting rookies prepared for this level. If what you were saying is the case, then why would coaches even hold those camps. Training camp is essentially just two weeks long, and just about every coach that's ever been interviewed on the topic grumbles about not having enough practice time even for veteran players.
I think one of the reasons you want to draft more polished college guys early since they have a clearer resume and experience.
But adding strength and weight has already started.....i suspect he will be on target weight wise sooner then later.
Now, in CAMP, you begin to learn the playbook. The "book stuff" becomes "practice stuff" and unfortunately the pre-season games are no longer enough to get guys truly ready for game 1. Last year we were so flat for two whole games and that was with an offense and defense that was already in place the year before!!!! That is COACHING not motivating or getting through the right way.
If we have a "rough" camp with injuries and missed practices, I honestly see us struggling through the early season. I'm praying for NO WORSE than a 2 - 2 healthy start, but realize we can easily be 0 - 4 though improved from last year.
Camps are important; pre-season games are important; but healthy practices (esp. for QB & OL) are key to starting a season in sync and ready.
If Beal can just COVER a WR on 3rd and passing downs (maybe dime defense to start the season?) and perform well enough he could be a MAJOR contributor at CB for the 2nd half of the season. You have to hope that is the case with him cause he does have physical tools. But so did Eli Apple (and still does) and we of course need Apple to play to his abilities else this will be a LONG season. LOL.