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Some thoughts on Sam Beal

Sy'56 : 7/12/2018 8:37 am
I am knee deep in getting the master list ready for this upcoming draft scouting season....but here are some thoughts on NYG/Sam Beal selection.

*When I scouted Western Michigan CB Darius Phillips last year, I have 2 separate notes saying Beal was the top CB on that team by a wide margin. Part of that was me not thinking as highly of Phillips as some (he ended up being selected at the end of round 5 by CIN).

*What makes Beal attractive are height/speed numbers. He is 6'0+ with length and speed. That is always a nice combination especially if the player has some ball skills and other skills that are required at CB.

*Beal plays really aggressive. He is hands on, will throw his hat in to an oncoming pile of traffic. His head is always on a swivel, he plays hard. Always in the game, always making the effort to get the job done. Again, another good trait for the position.

*What I don't like...well there are a few things. His presence on contact is minimal. Even though he does play hard, he doesn't make much of a difference when he contacts a receiver off the line, especially a physical one. He doesn't hit hard on tackle attempts, ball carriers can bounce off him pretty easily. Beal needs to add power and strength to his game, no doubt. Not as important or a CB as it is for a S or LB obviously, but it still matters.

*He also just doesn't show a ton of stability and balance in coverage. He has the quickness and speed, but there are a lot of recovery steps in his game. He doesn't always track the ball well, as he is often falling to the side or trying to re-gather himself on change of direction movement.

_____________________________

I wouldn't expect much out of Beal in 2018. He is getting in to the program late and I view him as a raw prospect that needs at least a year of strength and stability work to help improve his technique and skills. If I had to puta grade on him, it would have revolved around the 3rd/4th round region. I have no issues with the pick, it is basically getting a head start on someone that can impact this defense in 2019. He isn't a bad kid, didn't get in to trouble. His situation and reasoning for entering the Supplemental Draft was a simple miscommunication between him and the school regarding his credits.

After the draft I said the CB group was probably the biggest weakness on this team, so this is a move in the right direction but I'm not sure it helps for 2018.
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It’s great to hear  
mattyblue : 7/12/2018 2:03 pm : link
the optimism people have for Beal. We got Carter and Hill in the 3rd round this year and they both seemed like better “sounding” prospects than Beal. I have never seen him play so I have no clue. Prior to the supplemental draft, I read a lot of reports saying he was very good but they also seemed to contain a ton of negatives on him. I like that the Giants took the risk of going after him. We need to take some chances now and then. Add him to the current draft class and there certainly is a lot to look forward to. Hope it works out.
according to this article which i just found on SB Nation...  
Mike in St. Louis : 7/12/2018 2:09 pm : link
the Giants had the number two pick behind the Raiders...

"Walter Football gives the pick an A+ grade.

The Giants were rewarded the second pick in each round of the supplemental draft, so they had the ability to select Sam Beal in the third frame before everyone else, save for the Raiders. Oakland was the only team that could have chosen Beal ahead of New York, so one has to wonder if Jon Gruden was tanning on some beach and not really paying attention because the Raiders really could have used Beal.

New York was able to greatly benefit from Oakland's incompetence. Beal is a terrific talent, and it could be argued that he would have been a late first-round pick in the 2019 NFL Draft. Being able to nab him in the third round is an absolute steal, and the Giants deserve an A+ grade as a result. With Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Ross Cockrell gone, New York had a big need at corner, which Beal should be able to fill. He'll be off to a slow start after missing OTAs, but it wouldn't surprise me if he found his way into the starting lineup by the middle of the season."

Beal is a tall, lengthy corner with great ball skills. He might have problems with speedy receivers, but he'll almost certainly boost a Giants secondary that needed an upgrade.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: I guess I disagree with folks here writing Beal off for the 2018  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/12/2018 3:16 pm : link
In comment 14011758 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In comment 14011631 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:






Are you familiar with him at all? Not pointing a finger, just asking where the expectation is coming from. I tend not to expect anything after the 2nd round.




So you don't expect anything from BJ Hill this year?
He has been getting rave reviews by everyone. I expect him to contribute long before week 8.


Who doesn't get rave reviews in june though? It's the time of year where every player in the league "puts on 10 pounds of muscle", "feels better than he has in years" etc.

Hill can be a good, smart draft pick and also not necessarily make an impact as a rookie.
Seems like a bunch of varying opinions  
David B. : 7/12/2018 3:18 pm : link
on Beal. Everyone agrees he is a press corner with size, speed, and talent. Beyond that it seems all over the map. If you listen to the guy telling Dottino about Beal BEFORE they drafted him, PD had a lot of legit questions about the guy's ability to contribute in 2018.

The only opinion that matters is Gettleman's. That's fine, but it's hard to believe there aren't gonna be guys with similar skills and question marks in the middle rounds next year.
Hill is most likely going to make an impact because  
robbieballs2003 : 7/12/2018 3:18 pm : link
he is the starter right now. If he doesn't make an impact then he will lose his "job".
The Browns would have taken him  
Defenderdawg : 7/12/2018 3:21 pm : link
The Browns Plain Dealer writer is usually clued in

It's not yet known what round the Browns bid, but it was probably the third. The Browns had the fourth pick in each round behind the Raiders, Jets, and Giants. The Broncos rounded out the top five.
Link - ( New Window )
Given his status thus far  
Joey in VA : 7/12/2018 3:37 pm : link
If he played in 2018 and had another good season and continued to grow and get stronger he's looking at a 2nd round call next year given the run on DBs and his ideal measurables. My guess is that we project to 2019 draft, we have to take him in round 2 if we want him.
RE: Given his status thus far  
DonQuixote : 7/12/2018 4:02 pm : link
In comment 14011963 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
If he played in 2018 and had another good season and continued to grow and get stronger he's looking at a 2nd round call next year given the run on DBs and his ideal measurables. My guess is that we project to 2019 draft, we have to take him in round 2 if we want him.


I'm with you on this and think Sy may be too negative. Most have him as a top 5 or 6 corner coming out next year, which sounds like a second rounder to me.
RE: The Browns would have taken him  
Milton : 7/12/2018 4:06 pm : link
In comment 14011953 Defenderdawg said:
Quote:
The Browns Plain Dealer writer is usually clued in

It's not yet known what round the Browns bid, but it was probably the third. The Browns had the fourth pick in each round behind the Raiders, Jets, and Giants. The Broncos rounded out the top five. Link - ( New Window )
If the Browns actually submitted a bid, I would think that means it was a third round pick, because he was already gone by the time the 4th round started.
Quote:
To expedite what otherwise would be a very lengthy procedure, the following steps will be taken for each round:
a) At 1:00 p.m., the League office will notify all clubs that the first round has begun.
b) Clubs will then have 10 minutes, with the time limit running concurrently for all Clubs, to respond if they wish to select in Round One. All responses should be immediate. This is in lieu of the procedure used during the regular Draft under which an individual club’s allotted time limit does not begin until the Club ahead of it has made its selection.
c) Any club that knows in advance that it will pass the opportunity to select for the entire seven rounds, or for a specific number of rounds fewer than seven, is requested to advise the League office prior to the beginning of the Draft. intentions will be kept confidential from other clubs and will be used only to expedite this process.
d) If a player is selected in a given round — even if selected by more than one club — the selections will be compiled and the player will be awarded to the club that holds priority. Clubs are to be notified immediately of players awarded to other clubs. Clubs that hold more than one choice in a round must indicate to the League office which choice they are using for the selection.
RE: seems like we spent a 3rd pick  
Deejboy : 7/12/2018 5:42 pm : link
In comment 14011613 bluepepper said:
Quote:
on a guy who rates as a 3rd round pick. Nothing wrong with that but good corrective to some of the euphoric takes yesterday.


If you base everything on one guy's opinion. Other people are way higher on him and thought he was a mid to late 1st round/early 2nd round guy in 2019.
RE: RE: Sy, can you expand at all on  
WillVAB : 7/12/2018 6:01 pm : link
In comment 14011813 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14011800 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


From my vantage point I was thinking he could be a productive 4th corner by the end of the season and maybe even an average 3rd corner by **wishful thinking** playoff time.

Is your view that this kind of outcome is extremely unlikely or were you more saying to not to expect much in the vein that he is a 3rd round pick and hope of him matching up well on a #1 or #2 receiver should be reserved for two seasons from now?



Multiple 3rd round picks make impacts. But that is after rookie mini camp, team mini camp/OTAs, and training camp.

Beal misses the first 2 of those due to the situation.

I also think this defense is going to error towards the more experienced corners they have on the roster. They went shopping for a bunch of average to below average veterans. Stop gaps type. I don't see Beal all of the sudden passing them with such limited practice time.


I doubt it. Beal will have training camp and preseason games to show what he’s got. I don’t see DG burning draft capital for a guy to redshirt.

My guess is he sees snaps in some packages pretty early in the season and plays a larger role if there’s any injuries.
I got bored reading this thread  
WillieYoung : 7/12/2018 6:19 pm : link
So i apologize if this point has been made. Can a guy get faster or longer after the draft? Can he get stronger? Enough said.
RE: RE: RE: Sy, can you expand at all on  
SGMen : 7/12/2018 6:22 pm : link
In comment 14012068 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14011813 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14011800 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


From my vantage point I was thinking he could be a productive 4th corner by the end of the season and maybe even an average 3rd corner by **wishful thinking** playoff time.

Is your view that this kind of outcome is extremely unlikely or were you more saying to not to expect much in the vein that he is a 3rd round pick and hope of him matching up well on a #1 or #2 receiver should be reserved for two seasons from now?



Multiple 3rd round picks make impacts. But that is after rookie mini camp, team mini camp/OTAs, and training camp.

Beal misses the first 2 of those due to the situation.

I also think this defense is going to error towards the more experienced corners they have on the roster. They went shopping for a bunch of average to below average veterans. Stop gaps type. I don't see Beal all of the sudden passing them with such limited practice time.



I doubt it. Beal will have training camp and preseason games to show what he’s got. I don’t see DG burning draft capital for a guy to redshirt.

My guess is he sees snaps in some packages pretty early in the season and plays a larger role if there’s any injuries.
I can see Beal starting the season in the same place as Mauro, Lauletta - INACTIVE. However, as the season progresses, he'll find himself in some dime packages. Missing the mini-camps hurts his early season stock but maybe by not as much as we think? Hard to say at this point.

My summary of this pick is simple: Beal was WORTH a 3rd round pick next year NOW cause CB is a position of NEED.

Now, is Dominique Rodgers-Cromarties still a UFA? I'd love for us to sign him despite last year's antics. He'd play nickel over Gay I'm sure.
...  
Jay on the Island : 7/12/2018 6:42 pm : link
As of now it looks like the three 3rd round picks that Gettleman has made this year Lorenzo Carter, BJ Hill, and Sam Beal will be more successful than all of the 3rd round picks that Reese made.
It always looks like picks will be successful  
Oscar : 7/12/2018 10:23 pm : link
Before they play. That’s why they were picked.
RE: ...  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/12/2018 10:52 pm : link
In comment 14012094 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
As of now it looks like the three 3rd round picks that Gettleman has made this year Lorenzo Carter, BJ Hill, and Sam Beal will be more successful than all of the 3rd round picks that Reese made.


Well sure, everyone's great until they play.
RE: The  
tomjgiant : 7/13/2018 6:30 am : link
In comment 14011497 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
problem for Beal is the damn CBA. The Giants only have about 11 practices left before the season (9 open to the public...I think two closed). Good news is the couple of days of practices against the Lions.

But again, this is not the old days where you had two-a-days plus many more days of actual practice, including full pads.


11 practices before the pre-season.
There are many more practices before the regular season and 4 pre-season games that he should see a lot of action in.
I don't get it.....  
Doomster : 7/14/2018 2:42 pm : link
Practice? Are we talking about practice?

He either has talent or he doesn't.....

With lack of depth on this team, it's quite possible he will be thrown into the fire......he might be better in 2019? Well, yes, but we need him this year....
Good player and frame translates well to NFL game  
Jimmy Googs : 7/15/2018 8:02 am : link
but at this stage, cannot see him contributing on field until maybe Thanksgiving. And that's if injuries hit or guys ahead of him are struggling...neither of which is good news.

But CB talent is a very much welcomed  
Jimmy Googs : 7/15/2018 8:04 am : link
on this team for future...
RE: Good player and frame translates well to NFL game  
Milton : 7/15/2018 8:45 am : link
In comment 14013379 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
but at this stage, cannot see him contributing on field until maybe Thanksgiving. And that's if injuries hit or guys ahead of him are struggling...neither of which is good news.
I think we're all far too uninformed on the guy to do anything but make wild guesses as to what kind of contribution he can make this year and how soon. More than anything else it comes down to how well he responds to coaching and his ability to contribute on special teams (two subjects on which we are clueless beyond the above-mentioned wild guesses). As I said earlier in the thread, at the CB position his responsibilities can be limited in some packages to something as simple as: #88 is your man no matter where he lines up and no matter where he goes. So if the talent is there, it's up to the coaches to design ways in which to take advantage of it.

And this, btw, is where I have so much more confidence in Bettcher and the current collection of position coaches than I did in Spags and his underlings. And that goes double for Shurmur on the offensive side of the ball. The Giants haven't had an OC-DC combination like this since the days of Fassel and John Fox. Big difference is that Shurmur has been given a helluva lot more talent than Fassel ever had (and that includes the OL!).

Very excited for this season and surprised by the modest expectations that some on BBI have. It all comes down to health, but that's always going to be the case for any team not named Bill Belichick. Instead of asking yourself how much better is the current team than the one that went 3-13 in 2017, we should be asking how much better is it than the team that went 11-5 in 2016 and should've, could've, would've beaten the Packers in Green Bay in the playoffs.

But I digress....
While you may not have had any confidence in Spags  
Jimmy Googs : 7/15/2018 10:08 am : link
which is understandable, not sure that gives de facto confidence in Bettcher, under similar premise you make on Beal...we just don't know yet.

I think its a bit optimistic to think Beal can walk in the door in middle of July and start contributing much, if anything, until later in the season.

btw - what in the world makes you think we "should've" won anything in Green Bay 2 years ago...because Eli threw a few passes that got dropped in 1qtr? The second half was a beating on both sides of the ball, and last I recall the game is 60 minutes...just sayin'
I agree with the serious concerns about his tackling and his  
Ira : 7/15/2018 10:30 am : link
reluctance to support in the run game. But the only game videos I've been able to find are from 2017. He might have got stronger since. My guess is that he has a ways to go before he gets much playing time because of his tackling. But the thing you need most in a corner are cover skills and he definitely has those. So I think a third round pick makes sense.
RE: I don't get it.....  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/15/2018 10:34 am : link
In comment 14013129 Doomster said:
Quote:
Practice? Are we talking about practice?

He either has talent or he doesn't.....



This is pretty dumb even in the context of just your posts.
RE: While you may not have had any confidence in Spags  
Milton : 7/15/2018 11:04 am : link
In comment 14013454 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
which is understandable, not sure that gives de facto confidence in Bettcher, under similar premise you make on Beal...we just don't know yet.
Beal is a rookie to the NFL and all we know of him is the conflicting scouting reports and measurables. Bettcher has a track record of consistent success at the NFL level and we have seen and heard him speak about defense. Huge difference. Huge huge difference.

Quote:
I think its a bit optimistic to think Beal can walk in the door in middle of July and start contributing much, if anything, until later in the season.
I didn't say I was optimistic, I just said that none of us can really say one way or another what to expect from him as a rookie. The same holds true of all the rookies including Barkley and Hernandez.

Quote:
last I recall the game is 60 minutes...just sayin'
You've been out of touch awhile, in modern football there is something called overtime. It goes all the way back to 1955 in fact...
Quote:
Many football fans regard the 1958 NFL Championship Game as the first overtime game in National Football League history. That memorable showdown between the Baltimore Colts and New York Giants was indeed the first playoff overtime game.

Many years earlier, a clause about sudden death in a playoff game had been written into the NFL’s bylaws for such an instance. However, while never tested prior to the ’58 title bout, there was an experiment with sudden death in a preseason game three years before the the Colts-Giants clash.

The Giants were set to face the Los Angeles Rams on Aug. 28, 1955 in a game to be played at Multnomah Stadium in Portland, Oregon. The game’s promoter, Harry Glickman, had sought and received permission from the NFL to use sudden death should the game end in a tie at the end of regulation. Glickman’s motivation for having the overtime rule in affect was more for a publicity stunt to sell tickets. )

As fate would have it, the rule was put to a test that day. The Giants, who were led by quarterback Charley Conerly and Hall of Fame halfback Frank Gifford, took an early 10-0 first quarter lead. The Rams’ Tank Younger narrowed the margin on a five-yard run in the second quarter as the half ended with the Giants in front 10-7.

Los Angeles struck twice in third quarter and jumped ahead 17-10. The Giants’ Alex Webster scored on a three-yard TD run to knot the game in the middle of the fourth quarter and the score remained even at 17-17 when the final gun sounded.

Following a bit of confusion, referee Ross Bowen consulted with Rams owner Dan Reeves and New York’s General Manager Wellington Mara. It was agreed that the sudden death period would be played.

“I didn’t think there was a chance in a million it would be used,” Glickman was quoted as saying after the game.

The sudden-death period, however, did not last very long. The Rams won the coin toss and, guided by Hall of Fame quarterback Norm Van Brocklin, constructed an eight-play, 70-yard drive that culminated with a two-yard TD plunge by Younger. The winning tally came just three minutes and 28 seconds into the extended play.
...just sayin'
When the score is 38 -13 the game  
Jimmy Googs : 7/15/2018 12:25 pm : link
lasts 60 minutes.

Don't be so touchy...once that team fell behind 2 scores it was over. Should've, could've and would've played no part.

And i hope Bettcher brings his A-game in player development as well, it would be a nice change of pace with the defensive coaches we have had here for over a decade...
RE: When the score is 38 -13 the game  
Milton : 7/15/2018 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14013564 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
lasts 60 minutes.

Don't be so touchy...once that team fell behind 2 scores it was over. Should've, could've and would've played no part.
I'm not being touchy, I'm just having fun. As I saw it, the Giants were dominating them early on but between the dropped passes and the Hail Mary, they let the Packers stick around and then the roof caved in. Football is a game of momentum. I often wonder how the Ravens-Giants Super Bowl would've gone if the Armstead TD had not been called back.
Ok, no worries...we're cool  
Jimmy Googs : 7/15/2018 12:51 pm : link
BTW - NFL films ran an interview with Raven Coach Brian Billick years after that game and they showed a not-often video clip of that play that was called back for a TD. You know what that video clip clearly showed?

Keith Hamilton grabbing the Raven RB's arm as he was coming thru the wash of players. The penalty was legit.

just sayin'

RE: When the score is 38 -13 the game  
Big Blue '56 : 7/15/2018 12:55 pm : link
In comment 14013564 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
lasts 60 minutes.

Don't be so touchy...once that team fell behind 2 scores it was over. Should've, could've and would've played no part.

And i hope Bettcher brings his A-game in player development as well, it would be a nice change of pace with the defensive coaches we have had here for over a decade...


Googs, we were kicking their ass! Rodgers was sacked a bunch of times in the first half and had deer in the headlights and swivel with virtually every dropback. Yes, it’s a 60 minute game, yada, yads, yada, but the Killers were Wing’s horrific punt and of course the Hail Mary. No question in my mind we would have continued to pummel them but the prodigious momentum swing of that Hail Mary(as with us in 2012 playoff with GB) was mind-numbing. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw how much that took the air out of them. DRC’s huge injury cemented things that 2nd half when they destroyed us
Eli was having a clutch game, but the momentum shift coupled with  
Big Blue '56 : 7/15/2018 12:57 pm : link
OBJ drops buried us.
RE: Ok, no worries...we're cool  
Milton : 7/15/2018 1:08 pm : link
In comment 14013590 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
BTW - NFL films ran an interview with Raven Coach Brian Billick years after that game and they showed a not-often video clip of that play that was called back for a TD. You know what that video clip clearly showed?

Keith Hamilton grabbing the Raven RB's arm as he was coming thru the wash of players. The penalty was legit.

just sayin'
Legit, but not often called, especially back then. It's called more often these days (I think)....just sayin'
Not arguing the momentum shift. Just recall very well  
Jimmy Googs : 7/15/2018 1:15 pm : link
that the Giants ability to put up points was a struggle for the entire second half of that season, so falling behind to a quality team was pretty close to a death-nail for us.

And Rodgers was unstoppable starting near the end of the first half, so that "pummeling" you mentioned, didnt bother him at all.

And, yes the DRC injury hurt but they also lost Jordy Nelson early so lets call it a wash.

My guess is if OBJ and the others had hung onto the TDs early we would have had a nice lead, but would have been hanging on for a dear lives in the 4qtr as Rodgers staged his comeback.

As I said...its a 60 minute game.
Googs, agree with most of your response, but,  
Big Blue '56 : 7/15/2018 1:23 pm : link
Quote:


And Rodgers was unstoppable starting near the end of the first half, so that "pummeling" you mentioned, didnt bother him at all.



this is where we differ. Imo, Rodgers was ONLY unstoppable once the Hail Mary, renewed his confidnce. Prior to that he was hearing footsteps. I believe(not that it matters of course) his happy feet would have continued had the hail mary bulb not gone on..And of course, we’ll never know
Recall Rodgers hitting Davante Adams on a few big throws  
Jimmy Googs : 7/15/2018 1:58 pm : link
before the hail mary, including a touchdown. He was heating up.

Once they started rolling him out of the pocket, he started picking us apart down the middle. His Oline picked it up on the second half too as our guys were getting hits on him any longer.


*** weren't getting hits  
Jimmy Googs : 7/15/2018 1:59 pm : link
on him any longer
Beal  
Big_Pete : 7/15/2018 11:25 pm : link
I was a little surprised that we picked up Beal, but I do like the move.

Beal may need essentially need a red shirt year. He seems to be a solid press-man corner, which seems to be what Bettcher prefers. From all reports Beal has a decent toolset, attitude and work ethic; we also shouldn't forget that coming from a smaller school, he is likely to be a little raw.

A year of seasoning should put Beal in a decent place to be our #3CB in 2019. Aaron Wellman, Stallworth and Patel should address size issues; DeShea Townsend and Lou Anarumo should be able to work on his technique. We also have a bunch of veterans behind Apple and Jenkins who have been brought in for their intangibles.

I could also see Beal making some contribution late in the season, either on special teams or perhaps cameo spot roles in sub packages on the outside.

Gettleman and our coaching staff must see enough potential in Beal to make the pick. I am curious to see how he goes in training camp and preseason. I am not expecting too much this season, but this seems to be a move that could pay off in 2019.
I don’t know Beal from the guy who was sent packing  
Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2018 8:14 am : link
in the gorilla cage in “Trading Places,” but if the guy has talent and he has the entire training camp to get up to speed(in addition to the playbook study), there’s no need to redshirt the guy. We have no idea what Bettcher can or cannot do with this talent. He’s raw, they say, but what college player outside of the so-called “NFL-Ready” players, isn’t?

It's simply a matter of fact that players  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/16/2018 9:15 am : link
who were drafted regularly have had almost three months of time, including minicamps, OTAs and hands on time with coaches more than Beal has to prepare. It's significant.
RE: It's simply a matter of fact that players  
Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2018 9:33 am : link
In comment 14013974 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
who were drafted regularly have had almost three months of time, including minicamps, OTAs and hands on time with coaches more than Beal has to prepare. It's significant.


I’m kinda cynical as to how much is RETAINED by newbies who, after the last minicamp have nearly 2 months before training camp to forget the hands on, etc..Classroom/playbook study, fine, it helps to have a head start, imv. Hands on, practice in shorts, then nearly a few months of nothing, sorry, not concerned. To be clear, it never hurts per se, but to be a quantum head start over Beal, for example? Sorry, not convinced
RE: I don’t know Beal from the guy who was sent packing  
JonC : 7/16/2018 10:00 am : link
In comment 14013944 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
in the gorilla cage in “Trading Places,” but if the guy has talent and he has the entire training camp to get up to speed(in addition to the playbook study), there’s no need to redshirt the guy. We have no idea what Bettcher can or cannot do with this talent. He’s raw, they say, but what college player outside of the so-called “NFL-Ready” players, isn’t?


Clarence Beeks!
I know,  
Big Blue '56 : 7/16/2018 10:14 am : link
I figured it was close enough..😎
Thank you Sy'56 ! The very reason I didn't get too excited .. Raw and  
Bluesbreaker : 7/17/2018 2:08 pm : link
coming in late I son't expect much if anything
this season He could use a few ponds of muscle and he has
good players to learn from a Savvy vet like Jack Rabbit and
Gay and a young Apple who is still learning himself and likely has a better view now on what it takes to play at this level . Hopefully he turns out to be a good one great size and decent speed that you can't teach .
Beal is a better pure corner than Apple  
Alwaysblue22 : 7/21/2018 3:23 pm : link
What Beal cannot do however, unlike Apple, is tackle as well against the run game or be moved to free safety because he is not big enough YET.. he needs to gain weight. But if you need someone to cover a guy up the field he is now near the top of our corner back list. And how much of the offensive play book does the CB need to learn? He needs to learn Defensive calls and the rest is pure ability and instincts. I share the hope that Eli Apple shows that he has improved and can be a reliable starter next to Jenkins. Apple is the bigger and stronger guy. That is preferable to relying upon a 178 lb rookie. But if that does not happen, how much competition will Beal have to overcome in order to replace Apple? Maybe William Gay signed from the Steelers perhaps. DRC is not here anymore... its slim Pickens after Apple (no Pun intended) . So I would not be surprised to see Beal on the field a lot faster than people think. I think we will see him in nickel packages sooner than anyone thinks. Otherwise, why was he drafted? At 178 lbs he cannot be a gunner on special teams. I think DG was not comfortable with the existing group of corners.
I don't think anyone was comfortable with the corners we had  
Jimmy Googs : 7/21/2018 7:14 pm : link
but the Draft played out as is, so DG made his preemptive move with Beal.

Tough to imagine Beal can make an impact early this season based on pure reasonable timing. But he sure gets strong accolades and if that translates to the NFL game then the Giants made a good move.

Anyone relying on Eli Apple to turn it around is doing so on pure "hope", and it actually may be a hope and a prayer...
RE: RE: It's simply a matter of fact that players  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/21/2018 8:15 pm : link
In comment 14013995 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14013974 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


who were drafted regularly have had almost three months of time, including minicamps, OTAs and hands on time with coaches more than Beal has to prepare. It's significant.



I’m kinda cynical as to how much is RETAINED by newbies who, after the last minicamp have nearly 2 months before training camp to forget the hands on, etc..Classroom/playbook study, fine, it helps to have a head start, imv. Hands on, practice in shorts, then nearly a few months of nothing, sorry, not concerned. To be clear, it never hurts per se, but to be a quantum head start over Beal, for example? Sorry, not convinced



I think you're kind of discounting the work involved in getting rookies prepared for this level. If what you were saying is the case, then why would coaches even hold those camps. Training camp is essentially just two weeks long, and just about every coach that's ever been interviewed on the topic grumbles about not having enough practice time even for veteran players.
RE: RE: RE: It's simply a matter of fact that players  
SGMen : 7/21/2018 9:36 pm : link
In comment 14018073 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14013995 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14013974 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


who were drafted regularly have had almost three months of time, including minicamps, OTAs and hands on time with coaches more than Beal has to prepare. It's significant.



I’m kinda cynical as to how much is RETAINED by newbies who, after the last minicamp have nearly 2 months before training camp to forget the hands on, etc..Classroom/playbook study, fine, it helps to have a head start, imv. Hands on, practice in shorts, then nearly a few months of nothing, sorry, not concerned. To be clear, it never hurts per se, but to be a quantum head start over Beal, for example? Sorry, not convinced




I think you're kind of discounting the work involved in getting rookies prepared for this level. If what you were saying is the case, then why would coaches even hold those camps. Training camp is essentially just two weeks long, and just about every coach that's ever been interviewed on the topic grumbles about not having enough practice time even for veteran players.
Today's training camps are a "joke" compared to those in the 70's, 80's and 90's when I was young..younger.
I think one of the reasons you want to draft more polished college guys early since they have a clearer resume and experience.
Thanks, Sy,. Much depends how desperate the Giants are  
George from PA : 7/22/2018 10:11 am : link
They are not exactly flushed with outside corners.

But adding strength and weight has already started.....i suspect he will be on target weight wise sooner then later.



What did the Camps ever do to help...  
Alwaysblue22 : 7/23/2018 9:02 am : link
Erik Flowers? Either you have the natural baility to play or you do not. I do not think it can be denied that Beal, altough raw, is already high on our CB list even with NO CAMP at all. I am not saying he will be on the field day one..no way. But he will be worked on to the field ASAP if Apple shows no improvement and William Gay is the starter.
RE: What did the Camps ever do to help...  
SGMen : 7/23/2018 9:14 am : link
In comment 14018894 Alwaysblue22 said:
Quote:
Erik Flowers? Either you have the natural baility to play or you do not. I do not think it can be denied that Beal, altough raw, is already high on our CB list even with NO CAMP at all. I am not saying he will be on the field day one..no way. But he will be worked on to the field ASAP if Apple shows no improvement and William Gay is the starter.
How much of that is on Flowers? How hard did he truly work to be great at his craft? We saw Solder take him to the side this spring and Erek didn't argue (LOL!) so maybe this is the year, his contract year, that he puts it together. The right side is a shade easier than the left side and he'll maybe get some help at times but overall I think he MUST be "average" for a RT for this offense to truly GO. Or Wheeler must step up.

Now, in CAMP, you begin to learn the playbook. The "book stuff" becomes "practice stuff" and unfortunately the pre-season games are no longer enough to get guys truly ready for game 1. Last year we were so flat for two whole games and that was with an offense and defense that was already in place the year before!!!! That is COACHING not motivating or getting through the right way.

If we have a "rough" camp with injuries and missed practices, I honestly see us struggling through the early season. I'm praying for NO WORSE than a 2 - 2 healthy start, but realize we can easily be 0 - 4 though improved from last year.

Camps are important; pre-season games are important; but healthy practices (esp. for QB & OL) are key to starting a season in sync and ready.
Now, as for Sam Beal's development at camp  
SGMen : 7/23/2018 9:19 am : link
I do agree that some guys "have it" and some guys "need to learn it" but in general, you either have it or you don't.

If Beal can just COVER a WR on 3rd and passing downs (maybe dime defense to start the season?) and perform well enough he could be a MAJOR contributor at CB for the 2nd half of the season. You have to hope that is the case with him cause he does have physical tools. But so did Eli Apple (and still does) and we of course need Apple to play to his abilities else this will be a LONG season. LOL.
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