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Some thoughts on Sam Beal

Sy'56 : 7/12/2018 8:37 am
I am knee deep in getting the master list ready for this upcoming draft scouting season....but here are some thoughts on NYG/Sam Beal selection.

*When I scouted Western Michigan CB Darius Phillips last year, I have 2 separate notes saying Beal was the top CB on that team by a wide margin. Part of that was me not thinking as highly of Phillips as some (he ended up being selected at the end of round 5 by CIN).

*What makes Beal attractive are height/speed numbers. He is 6'0+ with length and speed. That is always a nice combination especially if the player has some ball skills and other skills that are required at CB.

*Beal plays really aggressive. He is hands on, will throw his hat in to an oncoming pile of traffic. His head is always on a swivel, he plays hard. Always in the game, always making the effort to get the job done. Again, another good trait for the position.

*What I don't like...well there are a few things. His presence on contact is minimal. Even though he does play hard, he doesn't make much of a difference when he contacts a receiver off the line, especially a physical one. He doesn't hit hard on tackle attempts, ball carriers can bounce off him pretty easily. Beal needs to add power and strength to his game, no doubt. Not as important or a CB as it is for a S or LB obviously, but it still matters.

*He also just doesn't show a ton of stability and balance in coverage. He has the quickness and speed, but there are a lot of recovery steps in his game. He doesn't always track the ball well, as he is often falling to the side or trying to re-gather himself on change of direction movement.

_____________________________

I wouldn't expect much out of Beal in 2018. He is getting in to the program late and I view him as a raw prospect that needs at least a year of strength and stability work to help improve his technique and skills. If I had to puta grade on him, it would have revolved around the 3rd/4th round region. I have no issues with the pick, it is basically getting a head start on someone that can impact this defense in 2019. He isn't a bad kid, didn't get in to trouble. His situation and reasoning for entering the Supplemental Draft was a simple miscommunication between him and the school regarding his credits.

After the draft I said the CB group was probably the biggest weakness on this team, so this is a move in the right direction but I'm not sure it helps for 2018.
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Thanks.  
robbieballs2003 : 7/12/2018 8:41 am : link
One question. There was a report that mentioned something about having issues with one or both shoulders. Do you know anything about that?
The only  
mittenedman : 7/12/2018 8:43 am : link
way this pick makes sense is if the Giants had Beal rated very high.

Even though you're getting a head start on developing the pick for 2019, you're taking away the the choice of everyone available when your pick comes in the 2019 Draft.

Essentially it becomes Beal over "the field" in 2019 3rd round.

That would suggest very strongly that the Giants were one of the teams that had Beal rated as a 2nd rounder.

P.S. I don't think they see him as just a 2019 guy. He's an athlete that will be thrown into the special teams mix right away. Got the look and skillset of a pretty good gunner and hawk.

RE: Thanks.  
Sy'56 : 7/12/2018 8:44 am : link
In comment 14011490 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
One question. There was a report that mentioned something about having issues with one or both shoulders. Do you know anything about that?


Earlier in his career. Hasn't been an issue over the past 2 seasons and nothing that creates any extra-worry. He does need more strength/stability from the bottom on up though.
The  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/12/2018 9:00 am : link
problem for Beal is the damn CBA. The Giants only have about 11 practices left before the season (9 open to the public...I think two closed). Good news is the couple of days of practices against the Lions.

But again, this is not the old days where you had two-a-days plus many more days of actual practice, including full pads.
Great  
AcidTest : 7/12/2018 9:08 am : link
stuff. Thanks. I think it was a great gamble because of his height, speed, and ball skills. He does need to get stronger. I'm not sure what we'll get from him this year. Maybe some flashes, but he's probably for 2019. But it was worth the risk.
RE: The  
gmen9892 : 7/12/2018 9:08 am : link
In comment 14011497 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
problem for Beal is the damn CBA. The Giants only have about 11 practices left before the season (9 open to the public...I think two closed). Good news is the couple of days of practices against the Lions.

But again, this is not the old days where you had two-a-days plus many more days of actual practice, including full pads.


Probably the reason why Sy is saying look for him more in 2019. Personally, I think the only way he sees significant playing time this year is if any of the top 2 guys go down, and even then, he might be the 2nd option. Kid has a world of talent, but coming from a small school in the MAC to the NFL is QUITE the change. As has also been mentioned, he 100% needs to hit the weight room, and that kind of progress doesn't happen quickly.

In a perfect world, we do not see much of Beal in 2019, which means our corners are playing well and are healthy.
So the question remains - who will be our nickel corner  
Ira : 7/12/2018 9:16 am : link
?
Dottino said similar  
David B. : 7/12/2018 9:16 am : link
talking to the scout about on BBKL. You'd like to have him on special teams this year, but his liabilities in tackling make it risky. Probably won't contribute much this year.
RE: So the question remains - who will be our nickel corner  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/12/2018 9:17 am : link
In comment 14011506 Ira said:
Quote:
?


It's an open competition. Gay is the old vet. Haley the rookie. And we signed a couple of journeymen who have experience doing it.
Thanks, Sy  
bradshaw44 : 7/12/2018 9:23 am : link
That reads exactly like a 3/4 round picks write up. I just hope he can learn as the season progresses and be serviceable coming off the bench.
The slot corner position is really a huge position on any team  
robbieballs2003 : 7/12/2018 9:24 am : link
and I wonder why so many team don't stress it's importance. I'm not taking a shot at the Giants here. It just seems to be a common theme across the NFL. You read things that say a player is just a slot corner or that player got paid too much for a slot guy. Answer me this: where do most matchups happen that offensive coordinators try to take advantage of? It is in the moddle of the field. Look at what the Pats have been doing forever. They live off of Gronk, Hernandez, Bennett, Welker, Edelman, Amendola, their plethora of RBs, etc. The only legit threat they had at WR on the outside that was worth a damn was Moss and that was the exception not the rule.
tnks, Sy  
ColHowPepper : 7/12/2018 9:30 am : link
always good to hear your take, the + and -
Thanks for the info  
MotownGIANTS : 7/12/2018 9:34 am : link
hopefully he can get up to speed by mid-season ... As we know football is a rough sport ... and be next man up if called upon.
Looks good in coverage  
nyballa0891 : 7/12/2018 9:37 am : link
But also seemed somewhat scared to tackle on tape. Raw, will prob need to put on some weight
Here's the NFL.com write-up by Brooks  
PatersonPlank : 7/12/2018 9:59 am : link
I like this pick, he can definitely contribute.

Sam Beal, CB, Giants: At 6-foot-1, 187 pounds, the WMU product owns the ideal height NFL scouts look for in today's corners. Beal broke up a team-high 10 passes last year, and made two interceptions. Projected by some to be a top-5 player at his position next year, Beal was viewed as a near-lock to be selected today. NFL Network analyst Bucky Brooks noted that Beal owns the footwork and body control to possibly become a natural cover corner on an island, but needs to work on his run defense. Beal joins a Big Blue D that has undergone an overhaul under new defensive coordinator James Bettcher. The Giants need depth at outside corner behind current starters Janoris Jenkins and erratic Eli Apple. Bettcher's system calls for his corners to play a lot of man-coverage on the outside. It's a role Beal is suited to grow into, even if it's not in Year 1.
RE: The only  
BigBlue4You09 : 7/12/2018 10:11 am : link
In comment 14011491 mittenedman said:
Quote:
way this pick makes sense is if the Giants had Beal rated very high.

Even though you're getting a head start on developing the pick for 2019, you're taking away the the choice of everyone available when your pick comes in the 2019 Draft.

Essentially it becomes Beal over "the field" in 2019 3rd round.

That would suggest very strongly that the Giants were one of the teams that had Beal rated as a 2nd rounder.

P.S. I don't think they see him as just a 2019 guy. He's an athlete that will be thrown into the special teams mix right away. Got the look and skillset of a pretty good gunner and hawk.


Doesn't he have issues with tackling though? Definitely needs to pack on some muscle too.
After combing through various articles on Beal this A.M.,  
TheMick7 : 7/12/2018 10:18 am : link
seems the Browns thought Beal was theirs' pre-draft & were going to draft him in the 3rd round if the Giants hadn't. Seems the writers assumed they'd have the first pick in each round-not the lottery system that put the Giants ahead of them!
BigBlue4you  
mittenedman : 7/12/2018 10:27 am : link
We’ll see. Like I said the Giants obviously feel this is a talented player probably in the 2nd round range. So he should be “good enough” to get out thete on specials right away.
Thank for putting the pick into perspective Sy  
Marty in Albany : 7/12/2018 10:34 am : link
Season Savior => Developmental Rookie
After another year, he might have become  
CT Charlie : 7/12/2018 10:41 am : link
a solid low-2nd, high 3rd rounder. If so, it's a good gamble given our needs at CB.
Sy  
Eman11 : 7/12/2018 10:48 am : link
When you say a 3/4 round grade on him do you mean in this past draft or what you would project him to go in next year's? I'm thinking you mean this past one but just wanted to be sure.

Thanks.
Love the contradictory scouting reports!  
CT Charlie : 7/12/2018 10:49 am : link
Inside the Pylon says:
Weaknesses: Greater play strength needed to withstand heavy hand fighting...

NFL Mocks says:
Strengths: ... He displays strong hands and very good play strength...
seems like we spent a 3rd pick  
bluepepper : 7/12/2018 10:51 am : link
on a guy who rates as a 3rd round pick. Nothing wrong with that but good corrective to some of the euphoric takes yesterday.
Thanks, Sy  
JonC : 7/12/2018 10:52 am : link
I saw the same things with the lack of impact on contact, losing the ball in flight and finding himself in chase and recovery mode, which will be much more difficult to pull off in the NFL.
I guess I disagree with folks here writing Beal off for the 2018  
ZogZerg : 7/12/2018 10:56 am : link
season. Yeah, he missed a lot of practice sessions, but they say he has a high football IQ so maybe he picks things up fast. He is 21 years old, he is not a young draft pick.

I fully expect Beal to contribute by the middle of the 2018 season.
RE: I guess I disagree with folks here writing Beal off for the 2018  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/12/2018 11:09 am : link
In comment 14011621 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
season. Yeah, he missed a lot of practice sessions, but they say he has a high football IQ so maybe he picks things up fast. He is 21 years old, he is not a young draft pick.

I fully expect Beal to contribute by the middle of the 2018 season.


Are you familiar with him at all? Not pointing a finger, just asking where the expectation is coming from. I tend not to expect anything after the 2nd round.
Thanks  
mrvax : 7/12/2018 11:12 am : link
Sy.
RE: Love the contradictory scouting reports!  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/12/2018 11:13 am : link
In comment 14011611 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
Inside the Pylon says:
Weaknesses: Greater play strength needed to withstand heavy hand fighting...

NFL Mocks says:
Strengths: ... He displays strong hands and very good play strength...


There were a number of outright contradictory scouting reports on him sprinkled across the web. It was actually pretty humorous.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/12/2018 11:21 am : link
Kind of sounds like DRC sans the elite top end speed. An excellent cover corner who struggles with physicality and doesn't like to make too much contact.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/12/2018 11:22 am : link
I shouldn't say "excellent" - but it sounds like he's pretty strong in coverage and will be able to keep up with most WR's when he polishes his technique - but isn't really a physical guy.
RE: So the question remains - who will be our nickel corner  
Toth029 : 7/12/2018 11:30 am : link
In comment 14011506 Ira said:
Quote:
?

Maybe Gay is that, but Bettcher also loves RIley.
As opposed to begin contributing in 2019....  
njm : 7/12/2018 11:56 am : link
perhaps he can begin in the second half of the 2018 season. While he won't have an offseason of weight training, he will have a chance to begin to digest the defense and injuries tend to mount as the season goes along.
RE: The  
Eric on Li : 7/12/2018 12:05 pm : link
In comment 14011497 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
problem for Beal is the damn CBA. The Giants only have about 11 practices left before the season (9 open to the public...I think two closed). Good news is the couple of days of practices against the Lions.

But again, this is not the old days where you had two-a-days plus many more days of actual practice, including full pads.


At the CB I think this is less of a worry. In recent years more than one player has come into the NFL and switched position to CB for the first time (Quinton Dunbar to name 1 we've gone up against) and been able to see action pretty quickly. That's because the most important factor in being a CB is having the athleticism to play the position. Beal has been a corner and he has athleticism so even if it's just as a depth guy and special teamer, I expect he'll be able to contribute somehow right away.
RE: RE: I guess I disagree with folks here writing Beal off for the 2018  
ZogZerg : 7/12/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 14011631 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:




Are you familiar with him at all? Not pointing a finger, just asking where the expectation is coming from. I tend not to expect anything after the 2nd round.



So you don't expect anything from BJ Hill this year?
He has been getting rave reviews by everyone. I expect him to contribute long before week 8.
Sy, can you expand at all on "I wouldn't expect much" ?  
NoGainDayne : 7/12/2018 12:45 pm : link
From my vantage point I was thinking he could be a productive 4th corner by the end of the season and maybe even an average 3rd corner by **wishful thinking** playoff time.

Is your view that this kind of outcome is extremely unlikely or were you more saying to not to expect much in the vein that he is a 3rd round pick and hope of him matching up well on a #1 or #2 receiver should be reserved for two seasons from now?
are the lottery results from the supplemental draft...  
Mike in St. Louis : 7/12/2018 12:49 pm : link
ever made public...it would be interesting to see how the third round picks ended up falling and where in the supplemental third round the Giants drafted Beal...
RE: Sy, can you expand at all on  
Sy'56 : 7/12/2018 12:53 pm : link
In comment 14011800 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
From my vantage point I was thinking he could be a productive 4th corner by the end of the season and maybe even an average 3rd corner by **wishful thinking** playoff time.

Is your view that this kind of outcome is extremely unlikely or were you more saying to not to expect much in the vein that he is a 3rd round pick and hope of him matching up well on a #1 or #2 receiver should be reserved for two seasons from now?


Multiple 3rd round picks make impacts. But that is after rookie mini camp, team mini camp/OTAs, and training camp.

Beal misses the first 2 of those due to the situation.

I also think this defense is going to error towards the more experienced corners they have on the roster. They went shopping for a bunch of average to below average veterans. Stop gaps type. I don't see Beal all of the sudden passing them with such limited practice time.
RE: are the lottery results from the supplemental draft...  
robbieballs2003 : 7/12/2018 1:08 pm : link
In comment 14011808 Mike in St. Louis said:
Quote:
ever made public...it would be interesting to see how the third round picks ended up falling and where in the supplemental third round the Giants drafted Beal...


On Twitter it was reported that Oakland was 1, the Jets were 2, the Giants were 3, and the Browns at 4. I don't know any after that.
How much does Beal weigh?  
Alwaysblue22 : 7/12/2018 1:25 pm : link
Some places he is listed at 177 Lbs...other sites he is listed at 187. He better be at least 187 if he wants to play in the NFL. Does anyone know what he weighs NOW.
If he shows he has the talent...  
Milton : 7/12/2018 1:41 pm : link
...the Giants can find a role for him on Sunday, it doesn't have to be part of the base defense or the nickel defense, he could be part of the dime defense or used situationally (i.e., where it's as simple as saying to him: that's your guy, cover him).

But he will need to learn to tackle (if that is in fact an issue for him), because he'll be needed on special teams.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/12/2018 1:44 pm : link
Thanks for information Sy.
It’s great to hear  
mattyblue : 7/12/2018 2:03 pm : link
the optimism people have for Beal. We got Carter and Hill in the 3rd round this year and they both seemed like better “sounding” prospects than Beal. I have never seen him play so I have no clue. Prior to the supplemental draft, I read a lot of reports saying he was very good but they also seemed to contain a ton of negatives on him. I like that the Giants took the risk of going after him. We need to take some chances now and then. Add him to the current draft class and there certainly is a lot to look forward to. Hope it works out.
according to this article which i just found on SB Nation...  
Mike in St. Louis : 7/12/2018 2:09 pm : link
the Giants had the number two pick behind the Raiders...

"Walter Football gives the pick an A+ grade.

The Giants were rewarded the second pick in each round of the supplemental draft, so they had the ability to select Sam Beal in the third frame before everyone else, save for the Raiders. Oakland was the only team that could have chosen Beal ahead of New York, so one has to wonder if Jon Gruden was tanning on some beach and not really paying attention because the Raiders really could have used Beal.

New York was able to greatly benefit from Oakland's incompetence. Beal is a terrific talent, and it could be argued that he would have been a late first-round pick in the 2019 NFL Draft. Being able to nab him in the third round is an absolute steal, and the Giants deserve an A+ grade as a result. With Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Ross Cockrell gone, New York had a big need at corner, which Beal should be able to fill. He'll be off to a slow start after missing OTAs, but it wouldn't surprise me if he found his way into the starting lineup by the middle of the season."

Beal is a tall, lengthy corner with great ball skills. He might have problems with speedy receivers, but he'll almost certainly boost a Giants secondary that needed an upgrade.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: I guess I disagree with folks here writing Beal off for the 2018  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/12/2018 3:16 pm : link
In comment 14011758 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In comment 14011631 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:






Are you familiar with him at all? Not pointing a finger, just asking where the expectation is coming from. I tend not to expect anything after the 2nd round.




So you don't expect anything from BJ Hill this year?
He has been getting rave reviews by everyone. I expect him to contribute long before week 8.


Who doesn't get rave reviews in june though? It's the time of year where every player in the league "puts on 10 pounds of muscle", "feels better than he has in years" etc.

Hill can be a good, smart draft pick and also not necessarily make an impact as a rookie.
Seems like a bunch of varying opinions  
David B. : 7/12/2018 3:18 pm : link
on Beal. Everyone agrees he is a press corner with size, speed, and talent. Beyond that it seems all over the map. If you listen to the guy telling Dottino about Beal BEFORE they drafted him, PD had a lot of legit questions about the guy's ability to contribute in 2018.

The only opinion that matters is Gettleman's. That's fine, but it's hard to believe there aren't gonna be guys with similar skills and question marks in the middle rounds next year.
Hill is most likely going to make an impact because  
robbieballs2003 : 7/12/2018 3:18 pm : link
he is the starter right now. If he doesn't make an impact then he will lose his "job".
The Browns would have taken him  
Defenderdawg : 7/12/2018 3:21 pm : link
The Browns Plain Dealer writer is usually clued in

It's not yet known what round the Browns bid, but it was probably the third. The Browns had the fourth pick in each round behind the Raiders, Jets, and Giants. The Broncos rounded out the top five.
Link - ( New Window )
Given his status thus far  
Joey in VA : 7/12/2018 3:37 pm : link
If he played in 2018 and had another good season and continued to grow and get stronger he's looking at a 2nd round call next year given the run on DBs and his ideal measurables. My guess is that we project to 2019 draft, we have to take him in round 2 if we want him.
RE: Given his status thus far  
DonQuixote : 7/12/2018 4:02 pm : link
In comment 14011963 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
If he played in 2018 and had another good season and continued to grow and get stronger he's looking at a 2nd round call next year given the run on DBs and his ideal measurables. My guess is that we project to 2019 draft, we have to take him in round 2 if we want him.


I'm with you on this and think Sy may be too negative. Most have him as a top 5 or 6 corner coming out next year, which sounds like a second rounder to me.
RE: The Browns would have taken him  
Milton : 7/12/2018 4:06 pm : link
In comment 14011953 Defenderdawg said:
Quote:
The Browns Plain Dealer writer is usually clued in

It's not yet known what round the Browns bid, but it was probably the third. The Browns had the fourth pick in each round behind the Raiders, Jets, and Giants. The Broncos rounded out the top five. Link - ( New Window )
If the Browns actually submitted a bid, I would think that means it was a third round pick, because he was already gone by the time the 4th round started.
Quote:
To expedite what otherwise would be a very lengthy procedure, the following steps will be taken for each round:
a) At 1:00 p.m., the League office will notify all clubs that the first round has begun.
b) Clubs will then have 10 minutes, with the time limit running concurrently for all Clubs, to respond if they wish to select in Round One. All responses should be immediate. This is in lieu of the procedure used during the regular Draft under which an individual club’s allotted time limit does not begin until the Club ahead of it has made its selection.
c) Any club that knows in advance that it will pass the opportunity to select for the entire seven rounds, or for a specific number of rounds fewer than seven, is requested to advise the League office prior to the beginning of the Draft. intentions will be kept confidential from other clubs and will be used only to expedite this process.
d) If a player is selected in a given round — even if selected by more than one club — the selections will be compiled and the player will be awarded to the club that holds priority. Clubs are to be notified immediately of players awarded to other clubs. Clubs that hold more than one choice in a round must indicate to the League office which choice they are using for the selection.
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