Knicks vs Celtics 4:30 PM EST on ESPN2
I am very much encouraged by what I seen from the front office so far, especially from Scott Perry. He has made a couple of decent personnel decisions; the Melo’s trade, the acquisitions of Trey Burke, Hezonja, Knox, Robinson etc. I like the Fizdale hire. I sense relative synergy between the front office and the head coach.
Not a huge Steve Mills fan (he was part of the Phil Jackson debacle). However, he hired Perry who hired Fizdale. Hopefully, the Knicks are no long a dumpster fire and the laughing stock of the NBA.
Don't forget the Ron Baker heinous contract too.
That was one of the only good things to come out of the Phil years. Keeping draft picks instead of trading them away.
I'm even coming around on Trier if he's used as a rotational playmaker with size at the PG.
I even like the gamble on Hezonja.
There is hope ... oh and yeah, the Ringer likes Knox.
With Kevin Knox,The Knicks new era is officially here - ( New Window )
Sorry. What does this mean?
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have spoken to Willie Reed
Sorry. What does this mean?
They have been in contact with FA PF Willie Reed, how else could this be interpreted? Not being snarky. Re-read what I wrote 4 times and it reads as it's meant to.
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In comment 14011683 DanMetroMan said:
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have spoken to Willie Reed
Sorry. What does this mean?
They have been in contact with FA PF Willie Reed, how else could this be interpreted? Not being snarky. Re-read what I wrote 4 times and it reads as it's meant to.
lol ... be kind, Dan. My mind went to Willis Reed. Was thinking some special coaching gig.
I just ate my lunch. Maybe nap time. lol
I wasn't being snarky either. Just tired/brain dead there for a sec.
actually that 2021 2nd round pick from charlotte could be very valuable, it will be first year with no more one and done, and that pick could be high 2nd...talent pool is going to be a lot deeper
Coach was trying to win as many games as possible to salvage his reputation.
In all seriousness I’d much rather reed.
not sure I want this guy on the Knicks - ( New Window )
Riley/Spoelstra had him so Fiz would have some insight others might not. I prefer Bebe but Reed might be a solid value signing.
Prior to 2003, Mills spent the previous sixteen years working for the league office. Whatever you think of dolan, it really doesn't seem fair to paint everyone who ever worked at MSG as some henchman.
randal posts the same thing over and over again he has nothing else
I just ate my lunch. Maybe nap time. lol
I wasn't being snarky either. Just tired/brain dead there for a sec.
Beez, you're not alone, I thought Dan was talking about Willis Reed too. Thought they were going to add him to the coaching staff to work with Robinson or something similar. LOL
The best case scenario from this season would involve the following:
1. Knox and Robinson prove themselves to be long-term building blocks.
2. Frank takes a step forward with his shot and ballhandling (I think moving him to the 2 is a good idea; I don't think he's a starting PG)
3. KP is healthy and confident after a long hiatus.
4. We get a top 5 pick and another blue chip talent.
I'm cautiously optimistic about our chances of landing a high quality max. We're building something decent here.
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lol ... be kind, Dan. My mind went to Willis Reed. Was thinking some special coaching gig.
I just ate my lunch. Maybe nap time. lol
I wasn't being snarky either. Just tired/brain dead there for a sec.
Beez, you're not alone, I thought Dan was talking about Willis Reed too. Thought they were going to add him to the coaching staff to work with Robinson or something similar. LOL
Same here.
The best case scenario from this season would involve the following:
1. Knox and Robinson prove themselves to be long-term building blocks.
2. Frank takes a step forward with his shot and ballhandling (I think moving him to the 2 is a good idea; I don't think he's a starting PG)
3. KP is healthy and confident after a long hiatus.
4. We get a top 5 pick and another blue chip talent.
I'm cautiously optimistic about our chances of landing a high quality max. We're building something decent here.
Number 2 is a very interesting topic that I don't think has been discussed as much as maybe it should be. With the "positionless" NBA, it may may mean less, but at the moment I'm in the camp that would be disappointed if it was determined that Frank is better off ball. His truly unique qualities are his defensive ability and court vision as a 6'6/6'7 19 year old. That becomes less impressive as a 2 guard.
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Beezer said:
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lol ... be kind, Dan. My mind went to Willis Reed. Was thinking some special coaching gig.
I just ate my lunch. Maybe nap time. lol
I wasn't being snarky either. Just tired/brain dead there for a sec.
Beez, you're not alone, I thought Dan was talking about Willis Reed too. Thought they were going to add him to the coaching staff to work with Robinson or something similar. LOL
Same here.
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I'd like to see KP take as much time as possible to recover. It seems like we've got some high character guys on the team too (like Frank) and building a good culture is important. The stink of losing with underachieving, overpaid veterans can take a long time to erase.
The best case scenario from this season would involve the following:
1. Knox and Robinson prove themselves to be long-term building blocks.
2. Frank takes a step forward with his shot and ballhandling (I think moving him to the 2 is a good idea; I don't think he's a starting PG)
3. KP is healthy and confident after a long hiatus.
4. We get a top 5 pick and another blue chip talent.
I'm cautiously optimistic about our chances of landing a high quality max. We're building something decent here.
Number 2 is a very interesting topic that I don't think has been discussed as much as maybe it should be. With the "positionless" NBA, it may may mean less, but at the moment I'm in the camp that would be disappointed if it was determined that Frank is better off ball. His truly unique qualities are his defensive ability and court vision as a 6'6/6'7 19 year old. That becomes less impressive as a 2 guard.
I actually think as a 2 guard, his court vision is more, not less impressive. He's not the world's most creative passer and to the extent that he's at best a decent ballhandler (again, there is a chance he becomes a good ballhandler, but I'd bet against it; I don't think there are many instances of a below average or average ballhandler becoming an above average or very good ballhandler in the process), that makes the it unlikely he's ever a very good offensive player and primary ballhandler.
I know it's early with Frank and I'd be happy to be wrong, but I think ideally he's an excellent defender (1-3), who can sink threes at an above average clip and can help run the offense for short stretches at a time. We're still looking for a bona fide PG/primary ballhandler.
Thanks.
It has been, Knicks down 12 in Q2
Agree with this based on what I saw the other night.
Its been acknowledged on a couple threads. He has turned a corner with a defined role that includes less of focus on scoring and more on playmaking.
I'd like to see him spend a month in G League and get good minutes along with serious coaching. He's got a nice future, but it will take time.
also 3 steals, all in 20 minutes.
hmmmm
Would allow the Knicks the possibility for two maxes on top of Butler, and if Butler is committed to leaving, Minnesota would clear some cap room, plus get a young player and pick.
he looked gassed but i do t think that excuses the forced shots but again he is 18 and trying tk carry the team
Kornet is basically just tall and can shoot the three. Nothing special, but I guess teams put a premium on that now (see Dragan Bender)
Dotson continues to struggle. A bit alarming but hopefully he'll be fine by preseason
Williams is inconsistent, but his motor is always at 100
Mitch finished with 17 points on 8-10 shooting, 12 boards and at least 5 blocks and 3 steals (didn’t get the final count on those) in 27 minutes. I know it’s summer league, but still...
Anakim : 5/10/2018 8:29 pm
In comment 13960482 DanMetroMan said:
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Musa round 2 (if he somehow falls).
I think the sleeper in this draft is Mitchell Robinson. He is insanely athletic for a 5."
It'll be interesting to see if Knox forces shots when he plays with a team that actually runs an offense. This summer league team did not look like they had any flow at all. On the other hand, it's nice that the Knicks finally have a guy that checks all the boxes from a potential stand point. Two if you count Robinson.
I know his shot wasn't going, but I actually liked what I saw out of Kornet today. He seemed to be the only guy out there setting good screens and moving the ball on offense. Hopefully his injury isn't serious.
I agree Hicks looks like he doesn't belong. It's almost like he's afraid to reach out and catch a pass in traffic.
I wish Hicks could be the guy they cut to get the roster where it needs to be, but I assume they need to cut someone with a normal contract. Assuming they don't trade anybody, I wonder who will get cut? Troy Williams, Ron Baker?
Next five: Robinson, Lance, Lee, Mudiay, Burke
Last five: Kornet, [PF not on roster yet], Williams, Dotson, Trier
Next five: Robinson, Lance, Lee, Mudiay, Burke
Last five: Kornet, [PF not on roster yet], Williams, Dotson, Trier
That's a gloriously bad team - maybe we'll get that top three pick after all.
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Starting five: Kanter, Hezonja, Knox, THJr, Frank
Next five: Robinson, Lance, Lee, Mudiay, Burke
Last five: Kornet, [PF not on roster yet], Williams, Dotson, Trier
That's a gloriously bad team - maybe we'll get that top three pick after all.
lol - you can only play the cards you're dealt. That's my best guess how it will go given the players they are currently invested in.
Next five: Robinson, Lance, Lee, Mudiay, Burke
Last five: Kornet, [PF not on roster yet], Williams, Dotson, Trier
It seems like you overlooked the fact that KP, Noah, and Baker are still taking up roster spots. This seemingly assumes that the Knicks will trade Noah and Baker for a PF not on the roster yet. I would love it if they could pull that off. :-)
Also, that starting 5 just makes me cringe if that is in fact what happens. 4 chuckers who don't pass or play defense and Frank... It's going to be a long year.
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Starting five: Kanter, Hezonja, Knox, THJr, Frank
Next five: Robinson, Lance, Lee, Mudiay, Burke
Last five: Kornet, [PF not on roster yet], Williams, Dotson, Trier
It seems like you overlooked the fact that KP, Noah, and Baker are still taking up roster spots. This seemingly assumes that the Knicks will trade Noah and Baker for a PF not on the roster yet. I would love it if they could pull that off. :-)
Also, that starting 5 just makes me cringe if that is in fact what happens. 4 chuckers who don't pass or play defense and Frank... It's going to be a long year.
Yes, I'm assuming that KP is on some kind of long term DL, Baker is cut and Noah disappears somehow as I think he will. More seriously - that the last couple of players are just scrubs anyway who can be stashed in Westchester, opening a spot or two on the big team.. I really don't think the last 5 players on this team's roster matter - they will all suck and be gone soon. Let's try to get 10 players on the roster who might actually have a future here.
Other notes:
--Dotson has been full-on awful--a sharp drop-down from where he was at the end of last season. Having Dotson, Kornet and Robinson all starting against an athletic Celtics team was a mismatch.
--Another problem for Knox, and for the team, was the utter lack of experienced pgs on the roster after Frank was unavailable. Trier was better than might have been feared, but he has no significant experience running a team--and no back-up. We will see how he looks in g-league, but Knox could have used a quality pg to get him easier shots. At least Trier stopped chucking when he needed to run the team the last 2 games. 5 for 8 tonight.
--Robinson kept the Knicks competitive all by himself--17 points, 12 rebounds, six blocks--and also without a true pg for the kind of athlete who would thrive with a passer.
He did get pushed around by Bennett on Utah and that certainly could be the case with a lot of 4's and 5's in the NBA but a year in a weight training program and look out.
He and Porzingis blocking shots and crashing the boards together could be a sight to see. And it would be very hard to play any clunky forward or center against a lineup of Knox/Robinson/KP would be extremely tough to move with them.
Only summer league, I know, can't get my hopes up to high. But regardless of how excited we should be, hard to argue against having more legitimate reasons to be excited than in many years.
so hawks trading schroeder?
That was my first thought as well. By dumping Faried and Arthur for Whitehead, Denver was able to shed about $20 million in expiring salaries at the cost of a lottery protected first and a future second. You would think that we should be able to find something similar for Noah if need be.
If not Knicks should offer baker and Thomas to bulls with a second round pick and $4.5 mil cash to cover baker cost. THis in essence is 2 expirings with Thomas only having 1 mil guaranteed next year. Then offer Lee for Melo straight maybe ask for a future 2nd rounder, this way knicks have room to take on Melo without having to send back anything besides lee to OKC. Obviously buyout Melo. This frees up 3 roster spots forknicks to focus on younger guys and costs them only a second and cash to get rid of Lee. Stretch Noah or try to use his expiring deal next year and you are close to 2 maxes
Could develop? No discussion whatsoever of the fact that he's only 18, that still growing, that he will get considerably stronger and fill out, that he clearly looked slower in the last game, suggesting fatigue after carry the team, that he has the stroke for a solid 3-point shot, that with conditioning and coaching he should become a very solid defender, given his quickness and long arms, or that he played the last 2 games without a real point guard.
Will he be a superstar? Too early to tell. But "could develop into a contributing piece?" That's just trolling, and understate the case relative to practically every other observer.
Meanwhile, it will be interesting to see how much time Robinson puts in with Westchester, especially early in the season. Above everything else, he needs experience and pt. The nearness of Westchester creates great opportunities for him to play up there and still practice with the main team. And then later on, they need to bring in a big man specialist like Hakeem to work on his technique. And in the summer, he will need to work on strengthening.
Link - ( New Window )
Is it really a very light cost?
The pick is top 12 protected. Given how tough the West is, I think it's very unlikely the pick falls into the 20-30 range. Real chance it's in the 13-17 range which is a nice asset for a salary dump IMO.
you can tell just by looking at him he is going to able to lut on weight on that frame and still be suoer athletic...
reminds me a lot of deandre when he came out, wide shoulders but skinny
In the G-League, he could dominate very quickly. G-League players his size are typically un-athletic, and he will rise over them.
Hopefully the next phase of the rebuild is to find some higher percentage shooters - Knox and KP will score but may not be the greatest of marksmen, and Timmy and Frank shoot poorly from three.
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dropped a bunch of salary for a very light cost. Maybe bode well for us in the future?
Is it really a very light cost?
The pick is top 12 protected. Given how tough the West is, I think it's very unlikely the pick falls into the 20-30 range. Real chance it's in the 13-17 range which is a nice asset for a salary dump IMO.
Across the board everyone seems to think given the costs other teams paid the Nuggets did well.
Thought Camby might have been a little heavier but after seeing those numbers it might just be a question of MR working on his footwork and positioning more.
If he continues to take to the coaching no reason he couldn't be a good 6th man in the league.
his uoside is sixth man scorer
He also had the ball far more often than Knox. Comparing the two isn't totally fair.
Knicks should be aggressively pursuing a trade here. Noah, Lee, Frank, protected first for Butler, Dieng.
Allows them the ability to get a another max next offseason, and possibly wiggle room for a third.
Knicks should be aggressively pursuing a trade here. Noah, Lee, Frank, protected first for Butler, Dieng.
Allows them the ability to get a another max next offseason, and possibly wiggle room for a third.
No thanks.
A perennial malcontent with serious injury history. Not again.
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Butler just turned down the Wolves max extension offer.
Knicks should be aggressively pursuing a trade here. Noah, Lee, Frank, protected first for Butler, Dieng.
Allows them the ability to get a another max next offseason, and possibly wiggle room for a third.
No thanks.
A perennial malcontent with serious injury history. Not again.
Yes, he gets dinged up. Yes, he's Marquette scum. But he's never had a terrible injury, he's a legitimate two way player, and he would be ideal as a 3rd or 4th option on a contending team.
More importantly, being able to add he and KP would be a heck of a recruiting tool next summer when Kryie, KD and Kawhi are all free agents.
Knicks should be aggressively pursuing a trade here. Noah, Lee, Frank, protected first for Butler, Dieng.
Allows them the ability to get a another max next offseason, and possibly wiggle room for a third.
I don't want any part of Dieng's contract, and I also don't know that would be enough for Minnesota. Something like this might be more enticing:
Hardaway, Ntilikina, protected 1st for Butler. It would actually be pretty similar in structure to the deal that the Bulls got for him with a young swingman in Lavine, a young PG coming off of a slow rookie season in Kris Dunn, and a first round pick which ended up being Markenen.
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Butler just turned down the Wolves max extension offer.
Knicks should be aggressively pursuing a trade here. Noah, Lee, Frank, protected first for Butler, Dieng.
Allows them the ability to get a another max next offseason, and possibly wiggle room for a third.
I don't want any part of Dieng's contract, and I also don't know that would be enough for Minnesota. Something like this might be more enticing:
Hardaway, Ntilikina, protected 1st for Butler. It would actually be pretty similar in structure to the deal that the Bulls got for him with a young swingman in Lavine, a young PG coming off of a slow rookie season in Kris Dunn, and a first round pick which ended up being Markenen.
I don't really like this idea. The east is terrible. Butler could actually bring us to a point where we were fringe playoff contenders especially if KP tries to get back and play with him. So we might end up losing the pick plus Frank when we could have that pick be a potential top 5 trade Hardaway for at the very least an unprotected 2020 pick and just sign Butler outright.
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Knicks were prepared to take him at 36 (and he claims 2 other teams were prepared to take him round 2) he took 49 shots over 4 games (31 minutes per game), averaged more assists and took 28 less shots in the same minutes as Knox. He's got his flaws but the Lou Williams comp looks apt.
He also had the ball far more often than Knox. Comparing the two isn't totally fair.
One is a lottery pick people are gaga over, the other is an undrafted kid who may be a 6th or 7th man for crazy cheap. Point is in 31 minutes per game 49 shots isn't exactly a massive number
No Butler, no to Irving. No to all of them at that level. The Knicks have been doing the same stupid things since Spencer Haywood and Marvin Webster.
The only time the Knicks have had a good team since the championship teams they drafted a big guy early in the draft and found players to go around him. They found Mason, they found Starks, they traded for Oakley.
That's what they need to do now. Grow a real team organically. Find players to put around KP that aren't mid career or late career corporations.
They're finally on the right track. Just stick to the plan. No quick fixes.
No injured big money free agents. No guys who sit out regular season games because they're the franchise player and need to host the all star game in their city. No guys off micro fracture surgery or with metal plates in their knees. No more of that crap.
No Butler, no to Irving. No to all of them at that level. The Knicks have been doing the same stupid things since Spencer Haywood and Marvin Webster.
The only time the Knicks have had a good team since the championship teams they drafted a big guy early in the draft and found players to go around him. They found Mason, they found Starks, they traded for Oakley.
That's what they need to do now. Grow a real team organically. Find players to put around KP that aren't mid career or late career corporations.
They're finally on the right track. Just stick to the plan. No quick fixes.
No injured big money free agents. No guys who sit out regular season games because they're the franchise player and need to host the all star game in their city. No guys off micro fracture surgery or with metal plates in their knees. No more of that crap.
Irving is 27. Butler is 28.
The key is not to overpay the second tier guys if KD, Butler and Irving say no - that's the critical error they've made over and over again. KD doesn't want our money? OK, here's $72 million to Noah, $48 million to Lee, $28 million to Lance, etc. Can't be anymore of that.
I love Frank, I'm all about keeping our picks, but Butler is a top 20 or so player in the league.
I love Frank, I'm all about keeping our picks, but Butler is a top 20 or so player in the league.
Yeah but I think your logic is a bit flawed. Either he wants to sign with us after this season and will do so or he doesn't and we end up trading assets for a rental. I don't see how playing a season with very little talent around him here helps us sign him. IMO we have to keep every asset we have to increase the chances that he wants to be here next summer.
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Frank and a first is the difference between upgrading to Butler from Hardaway or not, you pull the trigger.
I love Frank, I'm all about keeping our picks, but Butler is a top 20 or so player in the league.
Yeah but I think your logic is a bit flawed. Either he wants to sign with us after this season and will do so or he doesn't and we end up trading assets for a rental. I don't see how playing a season with very little talent around him here helps us sign him. IMO we have to keep every asset we have to increase the chances that he wants to be here next summer.
The issue is we can't still sign up with Hardaway still on the books. So the alternative would be not getting Butler.
Especially when not having Butler not only let's us keep Frank but assuredly gets us a higher pick in 2019 which again adds to our asset list in attracting top players.
Because it also isn't just Butler. IMO the one proven method of rebuilding is compiling assets and maintaining flexibility. Getting Butler when he can absolutely still take off and potentially losing our 2019 pick to boot isn't really compiling assets...