I know there is a thread on the other NY Post article, but this is another article on the QB’s. And this shows what the dysfunction in the organization may have been.
Marc Ross had Mayfield as his #1 QB while McAdoo had him 6. McAdoo had Allen rated 1 due to his high ceiling & Schwartz speculated Shurmur also had Allen as the highest rated QB.
The overall theme of the article is that McAdoo was not enamored with any of the QB’s. He said Darnold’s throwing mechanics & release were very troubling for a high first round QB (Go Terps also highlighted this). Mayfield is not much of an athlete and does not come from a pro offense. Rosen has durability concerns.
And before you go bashing McAdoo, I’m still interested in his opinion as it is compelling reading. He has been with the organization since 2014, so he has insight. A lot of us are also hoping Davis Webb can become something, who he evaluated.
Overall, as the draft is further away, I can see why NYG passed on QB.
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He was Rodgers’ QB coach and as QB coach and OC Eli did pretty well with him. Not Gilbride well, but well under a new system, imo
Ross' evaluations are worthless to me.
Shouldn't have any impact on how you view his evaluation of QB talent. He started Smith b/c he was trying to save his job by getting a few late season wins. Even if he thought Webb was the better prospect, it's highly doubtful he thought a 3rd round rookie QB who was on the scout team all year would be able to pull a rabbit out of his ass. With Geno, for better or worse, he was hoping he could make some plays with his legs. Not saying he was right or wrong, I just wouldn't knock his evaluation skills based on that singular move made out of pure desperation.
he is not some QB guru. aaron rodgers makes any coach look good (if you think mccarthey is a good coach in GB think again)
I agree with your point with respect to Eli. But why is it so difficult to believe that Mcadoo felt that Geno was in fact a better option than Webb at that point in time to win some games? Maybe he felt Webb wasn’t an NFL caliber qb yet or maybe he felt he would never evolve into a player of that quality. We don’t know, we haven’t seen Webb play at the pro level yet. I’ve asked this question before without much response, but if Reese and Mcadoo felt Webb was a potential franchise qb, wouldn’t they have thrown him out there in a desperate attempt to save their jobs (hey look John Mara, I found your next franchise qb), instead of a re tread? Especially given the success young quarterbacks have found in the league over the past decade.
Webb is going to get his shot, we will see if he’s a viable candidate as a long term franchise qb or the next Kent Graham.
What Mara/F.O. wanted isn't based on the same foundation in that respect.
I appreciate the insight. It provides some visibility on the opinions of the QBs coming out this year. While I am good with the selection of Barkley, I was on board with the selection of Eli’s successor. And had Ross gotten his way, I would have broken a remote 😂. The moment his name was called with the first pick, I relaxed😀.
What Mara/F.O. wanted isn't based on the same foundation in that respect.
No he wasn't. If he was doing this to try to save his job he wouldn't have waited until they were mathematically eliminated when its was clear the team wasn't going anywhere.
Eli is not mobile.
Hence, McAdoo shit on Eli and wanted to start the more-mobile Geno Smith.
But he didn't take a QB or trade down. He took Barkley. And I am optimistic that it will turn out to be a great pick.
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Reese bought in because he was on the same sinking ship.
What Mara/F.O. wanted isn't based on the same foundation in that respect.
No he wasn't. If he was doing this to try to save his job he wouldn't have waited until they were mathematically eliminated when its was clear the team wasn't going anywhere.
I'm not giving you an opinion, this was the word on the beat, BM/JR were in last gasp desperation mode.
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In comment 14012531 JonC said:
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Reese bought in because he was on the same sinking ship.
What Mara/F.O. wanted isn't based on the same foundation in that respect.
No he wasn't. If he was doing this to try to save his job he wouldn't have waited until they were mathematically eliminated when its was clear the team wasn't going anywhere.
I'm not giving you an opinion, this was the word on the beat, BM/JR were in last gasp desperation mode.
And you honestly think that their plan to save their jobs was to sit a loved and iconic QB for a guy with tons of NFL tape showing him to be not much of a player on a team decimated by injuries.
I don't buy that for one second.
BM/JR rolled the dice on Geno jumpstarting the team, silly as it was.
And that probably came from Ben's time with Aaron Rodgers, who successfully changed his motion. Not everyone can do that, nor do you need a classic throwing motion to be successful in the NFL (for example Bernie Kosar).
100% agree
BM/JR rolled the dice on Geno jumpstarting the team, silly as it was.
To add that there was some curious IR padding that was going on to perhaps have a built in excuse for the season. Richburg was placed on IR when it came out at the end of the season that he was cleared to return. And a mountain of a man - Fluker - goes on IR because his toe hurts?
I just really think BM was overly confident in his job security. I think his ego was inflated due to his rookie year results. I think this was evident in how he treated people both within and outside of the organization. I think the issue people had with playing backup QB's was in HOW the plan was implemented, specifically with how Eli was treated during the process.
His behavior is consistent with an inflated ego, not a desperate last-ditch job seeker, imho.
Also, it doesn't bother me one bit that they went with Geno over Webb as it seems clear to me that the plan was to evaluate all of the QB's, not winning at all costs.
-Former high 2nd round pick
-Showed some flashes
-Still young
-Prior franchise was dysfunctional
Eli losing the streak sucked & the way it was handled was worse, but the Giants were 2-9. Not at all an outrageous move.
The 2017 Giants quit on McAdoo a long time before Giants management (or BBI) quit on McAdoo.
He gets a ton of crap for the Geno thing, but would you have rather thrown Webb to the wolves with literally no first or second team reps under his belt?
that was him a reese huddling up for a hail mary. all there was to that...
1- On signing Geno:
"I find it very exciting. A guy that has his skill set is hard to find," McAdoo added. "You can't find guys out there that have that type of arm strength, talent, throwing motion and feet to go with it. And he's a competitor. It's exciting to bring a guy and work with a guy like that. And you see where you can take him."
2- Giants quarterback Geno Smith may be in line for more than just a backup role. Smith might just get the opportunity to one day succeed Giants quarterback Eli Manning.
Giants coach Ben McAdoo isn’t ruling out the possibility. When asked if Smith could one day replace Manning as the franchise quarterback, McAdoo responded, “I don’t see why not,” at the NFL owners meetings Tuesday, according to Paul Schwartz for the New York Post.
On why benching Eli for Geno
3- “He’s a pocket passer, just like Eli is,” said McAdoo. “He can do a little bit more with creativity.”
After being fired
4-
“When Coach Mac was let go and left the building, I talked to him before he left, and he had told me he felt like I deserved to play the rest of the season,” Smith told Pat Leonard of the New York Daily News. “He believed in me. A lot of people did. Guys wanted me to do well. But there are some things that are out of your control.”
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he might have saved his job had he gone with and developed Webb, regardless of results. Failure might have been understood by the heirarchy, imv
He gets a ton of crap for the Geno thing, but would you have rather thrown Webb to the wolves with literally no first or second team reps under his belt?
Yes. Give him practice reps the week prior and Shurmur him when he gets on the field. That’s how many of the younger QBs learn and grow, a bunch of whom are thrown into the fray when the starters unexpectedly go down. They too rarely get practice reps beyond the scout team
BM/JR rolled the dice on Geno jumpstarting the team, silly as it was.
I agree with Jon, 100%. I can see why they thought the more experienced, mobile QB might be able to win a few and deflect blame onto Eli.
1- On signing Geno:
"I find it very exciting. A guy that has his skill set is hard to find," McAdoo added. "You can't find guys out there that have that type of arm strength, talent, throwing motion and feet to go with it. And he's a competitor. It's exciting to bring a guy and work with a guy like that. And you see where you can take him."
2- Giants quarterback Geno Smith may be in line for more than just a backup role. Smith might just get the opportunity to one day succeed Giants quarterback Eli Manning.
Giants coach Ben McAdoo isn’t ruling out the possibility. When asked if Smith could one day replace Manning as the franchise quarterback, McAdoo responded, “I don’t see why not,” at the NFL owners meetings Tuesday, according to Paul Schwartz for the New York Post.
On why benching Eli for Geno
3- “He’s a pocket passer, just like Eli is,” said McAdoo. “He can do a little bit more with creativity.”
After being fired
4-
“When Coach Mac was let go and left the building, I talked to him before he left, and he had told me he felt like I deserved to play the rest of the season,” Smith told Pat Leonard of the New York Daily News. “He believed in me. A lot of people did. Guys wanted me to do well. But there are some things that are out of your control.”
But McAdoo was about Geno - or even Eli.
Geno does have physical tools and when he puts it all together, his upside is sky high (perfect games). Eli meanwhile was on a losing streak last year and theres nothing which indicates he will improve. He's near 40.
Thus to listen to his opinion on other QBs is laughable. He won't pick the "pretty good QB." In order to make headlines and try to show how smart he is-- he'll pick the boom or bust QB. That makes headlines.
I say this half-jokingly -- note "half-Jokingly" but not completely. If Ben Mac isn't too impressed with the QB class then expect a strong QB class in the best few years.
He can only see a QB in his small narrow view. After all we know in his narrow view he thought it okay to tear down ELi for Geno. Narrow minded coaches like him are not the types to go out and seek their broad evaluations. They are locked too much into their own little world.
But McAdoo was about Geno - or even Eli.
Geno does have physical tools and when he puts it all together, his upside is sky high (perfect games). Eli meanwhile was on a losing streak last year and theres nothing which indicates he will improve. He's near 40. [/quote]
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IS this a joke? Geno's upside is "sky high?" You're from Colorado? Got the legal pot, did you?
As Parcells has said "You are what you're record says you are."
Similarily Geno's "record" (performance) says what he is.
Removing Eli for Webb in the late 3rd or 4th quarter of games that were out of hand would have been a fair move and not even Eli would've objected to that.
But McAdoo was about Geno - or even Eli.
Geno does have physical tools and when he puts it all together, his upside is sky high (perfect games). Eli meanwhile was on a losing streak last year and theres nothing which indicates he will improve. He's near 40.
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IS this a joke? Geno's upside is "sky high?" You're from Colorado? Got the legal pot, did you?
As Parcells has said "You are what you're record says you are."
Similarily Geno's "record" (performance) says what he is. [/quote]
Yes, Geno can dominate NFL games when he puts it all together. Perfect games are rare. In my view McAdoo wasn't wrong about Geno or Eli's base traits.
Parcells also was talking about teams, not young QBs stuck on bad teams. Different context.
Eli is not mobile.
Hence, McAdoo shit on Eli and wanted to start the more-mobile Geno Smith.
There's more to it than that. McAdoo said himself why he liked Geno and didn't say anything about mobility. Webb was not drafted for his mobility either. Bradford would have excelled in McAdoo's system, good line or not.
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But McAdoo was about Geno - or even Eli.
Geno does have physical tools and when he puts it all together, his upside is sky high (perfect games). Eli meanwhile was on a losing streak last year and theres nothing which indicates he will improve. He's near 40.
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IS this a joke? Geno's upside is "sky high?" You're from Colorado? Got the legal pot, did you?
As Parcells has said "You are what you're record says you are."
Similarily Geno's "record" (performance) says what he is.
Yes, Geno can dominate NFL games when he puts it all together. Perfect games are rare. In my view McAdoo wasn't wrong about Geno or Eli's base traits.
Parcells also was talking about teams, not young QBs stuck on bad teams. Different context. [/quote]
Nooo- it's not a different context. Player and team are all the same. Teams win and players win.
Laughable that Geno can dominate fro more than 1 game. Simply laughable. Beyond laughable. It's complete fantasy what you say about Geno. Beyond the realm of absurdity. He hasn't done it because he can't.