I spent the day yesterday driving up I-95 & I’m curious as to what everyone considers to be south. The Mason-Dixon Line indicates Maryland is a southern state, but does anyone view MD as a southern state? I have always viewed it as a mid-atlantic state. NJ/PA to me are both northeast states as well as mid-atlantic states. I would not consider MD or DE as northeast states.
I have a tough time buying the Mason-Dixon Line, if you stretched it out, Cape May, NJ is significant further south than the line and no one would consider Cape May to be southern.
Personally, I feel anything below Richmond, VA has more of a southern feel whereas northern VA has a stronger northern feel to me.
I’m curious what BBI’ers think on this, especially those who live in MD/VA. Do you consider yourselves to live in the south?
I posted an article on this from a few years back. It appears most people do not view MD as a southern state.
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On my street in Virginia Beach, we have one family from VB and one from Norfolk. Two families are from the UK, two are from Brooklyn, one from LI and the Bronx (my family), one from the Philippines, one from California, one from Minnesota, one from Maine, one from Pittsburgh, and one from Flordia. The majority of my co-workers are from the northeast. I imagine it was different 40 years ago, but in the 18 years I have been here, it doesn't seem very southern to me at all unless I drive to a rural area.
WV was part of the North during the war, but culturally they are more southern than not. Also Southern Indiana has a different feel than Northern or Central Indiana.
It doesn't hold true for coastal states, but west of those, personal experience has shown Interstate 70 to be an artificial line that seems to divide the nation into North and South culturally.
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Folks there refer to NYers as 'Yankees'. Central Florida is not 'The South'.
Correction - Orlando metro area is not "The South". Central Florida is very much "The South".
You could be right but even the Tampa area doesn't seem 'southern' to me.
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In comment 14013755 mrvax said:
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Folks there refer to NYers as 'Yankees'. Central Florida is not 'The South'.
Correction - Orlando metro area is not "The South". Central Florida is very much "The South".
You could be right but even the Tampa area doesn't seem 'southern' to me.
For the most part, the coast of Florida is not southern. Even in the panhandle, you have to get away from the coast. But if you go deep along the spine of the state, it is all south with some areas "deep south" except for the exclusion of the Orlando metro area. Lake O area, Ocala all the way to Lake City, Lake City area all the way across the panhandle - all of it is "deep south".
Have you ever ventured from the coast along the peninsula?
Northern VA is a suburb of DC. 3 of the 6 richest counties in the U.S. are there. VA is a purple state, you get military down the coast and Southern in the South, but it's increasing being Northernized.
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In Geography we teach about different types of regions, formal, functional, perceptual, etc. Perceptual is all your opinion, many don't consider most of Florida southern but would consider VA southern. You'll get just as varied answers with this question as you would with "what is upstate NY?". For me, South is VA that is south of DC.
Northern VA is a suburb of DC. 3 of the 6 richest counties in the U.S. are there. VA is a purple state, you get military down the coast and Southern in the South, but it's increasing being Northernized.
Absolutely agree, when I taught geo in SC it was very interesting to see the back and forth between the students that had moved south from Northern states and those that had been raised in the south. Living just outside Charleston led for a great dynamic, you had the resentment towards Northern influx but the traditional values hadn't changed in certain ways.
I worked in Chantilly, VA for 5 years and as you get closer to Manassas you can definitely feel like you are in "the South"
there are or were many civil war plaques, memorials and markers of the battles from there (Bull Run?)
lately the town of Manassas has flipped politically, so they may have removed some of the civil war "celebrations" of confederate wins, I haven't been there in 20 years (thank god), but in the late 90's it was practically like taking a trip back to 1863.
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In Geography we teach about different types of regions, formal, functional, perceptual, etc. Perceptual is all your opinion, many don't consider most of Florida southern but would consider VA southern. You'll get just as varied answers with this question as you would with "what is upstate NY?". For me, South is VA that is south of DC.
Northern VA is a suburb of DC. 3 of the 6 richest counties in the U.S. are there. VA is a purple state, you get military down the coast and Southern in the South, but it's increasing being Northernized.
I completely agree. I lived in NY from birth until age 27 with the exception of four years in Oakton (Fairfax county) during the 1970s. When I was in 4th, 5th, and 6th grades during the 1970s, I thought Oakton was very southern. It's totally different now. Where I live now in VB feels way less southern to me than what I recall NOVA being like during the 1970s. Everything is changing. I have not spent time in deep south, but I have heard that many people down there consider Virginia "yankee" territory now. I am very culturally a long islander. I could never survive here if it had a strong southern culture. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's just not for me. However, it just doesn't have that feel. My kids were born here and don't self-identify as southern. At best, it's "southern lite" - really more midatlantic to me. However, if I drive west to a rural area it feels very southern and so do many other parts of the state.
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In comment 14013765 Diver_Down said:
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In comment 14013755 mrvax said:
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Folks there refer to NYers as 'Yankees'. Central Florida is not 'The South'.
Correction - Orlando metro area is not "The South". Central Florida is very much "The South".
You could be right but even the Tampa area doesn't seem 'southern' to me.
For the most part, the coast of Florida is not southern. Even in the panhandle, you have to get away from the coast. But if you go deep along the spine of the state, it is all south with some areas "deep south" except for the exclusion of the Orlando metro area. Lake O area, Ocala all the way to Lake City, Lake City area all the way across the panhandle - all of it is "deep south".
100% Correct. I live in Ocala and even that has gotten more "modern" with more transplants here and there is a lot of money here as it is the "Horse Capital of the World" but it damn sure is still the "south". And venture outside of Ocala? Salt Springs, Wildwood, Inverness.. etc? It doesn't even get more south than that. Anywhere.
On a job when I lived there, there was a lady who worked for a client company who was a self proclaimed redneck woman (had a sticker on her truck saying it). She asked me once where I was from, because "it sure as hell ain't around here". Not wanting to tell her my life story, I said Virginia. "Right, I could tell you were from the North." When I said that Virginia wasn't the North, she told me "Anything north of I-10 is too far north for me"
On a job when I lived there, there was a lady who worked for a client company who was a self proclaimed redneck woman (had a sticker on her truck saying it). She asked me once where I was from, because "it sure as hell ain't around here". Not wanting to tell her my life story, I said Virginia. "Right, I could tell you were from the North." When I said that Virginia wasn't the North, she told me "Anything north of I-10 is too far north for me"
You are correct in that you don't have to stray far from the coast to be in the heart of the South. I used that generality to summarize those that only vacation to draw their conclusion about Florida not being the South. If a visitor only stays at the beach or Disney, they are missing a huge part of the state.
Even the metro "Northernized" areas haven't bled too far in the suburbs. Look at Jax. The beach area, downtown, 295 beltway are all fairly "Northernized". The town of Macclenny just outside of Jax is the county seat of Baker County. In the courthouse is a mural depicting KKK riders on horseback.
One time while in the USMC in Tennessee, another Marine from Texas decided to hang a confederate flag in our room. I tore that SOB off the wall, washed/flushed it in a toilet, rolled it into a ball and tossed it on the floor by his rack.
I told him what I did and he never hung it up again. There was nothing he could do about it b/c I was bigger and stronger than him. Too F-ing bad.
Excepting Philly and Pittsburgh, Pennsyltucky is as red as they come.
Culturally, I believe it's the PA and Md borders.
Physically, yeah, Mason Dixon suffices.
It's not true. I think the most northerly Waffle House is in Scranton, PA.
No, they're not.
Any other snark?
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It's true
It's not true. I think the most northerly Waffle House is in Scranton, PA.
Excepting Philly and Pittsburgh, Pennsyltucky is as red as they come.
Culturally, I believe it's the PA and Md borders.
Physically, yeah, Mason Dixon suffices.
In 2018, culturally, I think rural/urban is probably a more significant divide than north/south (at least the upper south). At this moment, I am on vacation at my mother's place in a tiny town on the Delaware river in PA. It's just a few hours from NYC, but the culture here is way more similar to other small towns I have been to in the south (or upstate NY for that matter) than it is to Richmond, DC, etc. It's very slow paced, people are super friendly, etc. Where I live in southern VA is far more similar to long island than this place is to long island.
Same with the Nassau Coliseum for Islander games. Annoying as hell.
Add speakers and CRANK shitty, shitty tunes that make the seals clap at virtually EVERY dead moment, making a hockey game a nightmare musical performance. Honestly, it's the one thing I HATE about going to games now.
Big Pine Key is "up North"
But damn - you read some of these responses and you can just hear the horror movie music when mentioning "the south."
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Why? I have no idea, but they did.
Same with the Nassau Coliseum for Islander games. Annoying as hell.
Possibly the most annoying song ever recorded.
country the way John Denver used it <> Southern. It's farm-ish and there are more farms in non traditional "southern" states than southern.
So maybe the song has taken on context of country = south it's not the intent and I'm pretty sure it's played because it's a catchy song.
kind of like how the more annoying sweet caroline is played at every sporting event now.
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consider themselves to be Southern. I've had this discussion with strangers in bars many times. It doesn't make sense to me. I live in Baltimore, a Mid-Atlantic industrial port city that plays "Thank God I'm a Country Boy" and "Cotton-Eye Joe" during the 7th inning stretch of every O's game.
country the way John Denver used it <> Southern. It's farm-ish and there are more farms in non traditional "southern" states than southern.
So maybe the song has taken on context of country = south it's not the intent and I'm pretty sure it's played because it's a catchy song.
kind of like how the more annoying sweet caroline is played at every sporting event now.
Interestingly enough, most of the lyrics to another one of John Denver's big hits, "Take Me Home, Country Roads," were written by a guy driving through a rural part of Maryland. I believe West Virginia reference was added later.
Another interesting tidbit, is Robert E. Lee's miscalculation of the dynamics of Maryland when he invaded the North during the Civil War. Because of the many Southern sympathizers in Eastern and Southern Maryland, he believed the entire state felt the same and expected his army to be welcomed when they arrived in Western Maryland. The opposite occurred because most of Western Maryland was pro-Union due to numerous familial ties to Pennsylvania and soon-to-be West Virginia.