For all those years did they think they had a great roster held back by bad coaching? F that.
if gilbride, coughlin and fewell are so great, why were none of them offered coordinator or head coaching jobs after they were fired by the giants?
Seriously?? Coughlin did not get another head coaching job because team's were looking at his age and looking to hire younger head coaches. If Coughlin was younger, he would have had no problem getting a head coaching job. Gilbride was 62 by the time the giants decided to make a change and he decided to retire. He spent 25 years in the NFL. Gilbride could have gotten a job if he wanted one. He certainly had the resume to warrant interest from other team's.
Fewell was the only exception as far as getting another defensive coordinator position, but he was hired as a defensive backs coach and remains one.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: You really have to wonder how this person got hired Â
For all those years did they think they had a great roster held back by bad coaching? F that.
if gilbride, coughlin and fewell are so great, why were none of them offered coordinator or head coaching jobs after they were fired by the giants?
Seriously?? Coughlin did not get another head coaching job because team's were looking at his age and looking to hire younger head coaches. If Coughlin was younger, he would have had no problem getting a head coaching job. Gilbride was 62 by the time the giants decided to make a change and he decided to retire. He spent 25 years in the NFL. Gilbride could have gotten a job if he wanted one. He certainly had the resume to warrant interest from other team's.
Fewell was the only exception as far as getting another defensive coordinator position, but he was hired as a defensive backs coach and remains one.
the bottom line is none of those three have head coaching or coordinator jobs....so it's not as if the giants are paying for a big mistake in letting them go. gilbride's system and playcalling were extremely rigid and did not adapt to the strengths and weaknesses of his roster. if I never see a giants qb attempt a 3rd and 1 20+ yard deep pass down the sidelines again, it will be too soon. fewell's defense in his last year was just a mess - how many touchdowns did opponents literally walk into end zone because of a miscommunication in the secondary?
the mistake the giants made was overvvaluing continuity of the offensive playbook/system in selecting McAdoo and undervaluing other traits of effective coaches (attention to detail, effective delegation, adaptability, ability to inspire, unite and manage the players). they should have looked outside the box.
and I think it's a good one - that his QB benching explanation is a little self serving -- that here was plenty of film on Geno to see what you had and none on Davis Webb
That the only possible reason to play Geno was to save his job and not to help the team's future out --
MacAdoo is still blowing arrogant smoke up our asses -- and can not accept/admit that he selfishly broke Eli's string to try to save his own ass
and I think it's a good one - that his QB benching explanation is a little self serving -- that here was plenty of film on Geno to see what you had and none on Davis Webb
That the only possible reason to play Geno was to save his job and not to help the team's future out --
MacAdoo is still blowing arrogant smoke up our asses -- and can not accept/admit that he selfishly broke Eli's string to try to save his own ass
You are pretty arrogant about this.
He wasn't going to just throw Webb to the wolves.
Webb didn't have any first or second team reps. Geno did. By starting Geno Webb moved up to the second team and started getting reps there.
Throwing Webb out there with no reps at all on that level would have shown them absolutely nothing about his talent.
If he was preparing all year it would have been a different story.
gilbride's system and playcalling were extremely rigid and did not adapt to the strengths and weaknesses of his roster.
Gilbride and Coughlin tailored the offense to the team's strength and especially Eli's strengths. A strong running game with Bradshaw and Jacobs. The play action was effective and from 2008 to 2012 the offense was top 10 in both points scored and yards.
Gilbride was the offensive coordinator from 2007 to 2013. It was just like gilbride said, injuries mounted at so many positions and the offensive line deteriorated once Diehl, Snee and O'Hara got older and retired.
Webb didn't have any first or second team reps. Geno did. By starting Geno Webb moved up to the second team and started getting reps there.
Throwing Webb out there with no reps at all on that level would have shown them absolutely nothing about his talent.
If he was preparing all year it would have been a different story.
I am arrogant?
Maybe you should take the trouble to read Peter Kings article instead of my comments -- King also makes the point - that it was M______'s failure to get Webb ready that was the real problem.
You want to defend M_________ go right ahead - but find some source of authority because the above statements in quotes are naive
How can you hire a guy who openly states in a press conference ' we loss the ball down there due to Sloppy QB play!" I mean who does that to a 2x SB winning QB like Eli Manning... and now he says that Erik Flowers cannot bend and his inability to do this shows he cannot play either left or right Tackle.... but he gave Flowers no help on his side most of the time... weird.
You have a point, he has been criticized here. But I was more referring to the outcry at his benching and the excuse making by some, exonerating Eli from any blame for the poor offensive performance of the past two years.
I still believe Eli can play, and I m glad he s still a Giant, even though I wanted Darnold or Allen.
But I do get annoyed at the lack of objectivity often found in discussions regarding Eli.
I find it incredible and annoying how much differently he is treated by some fans than any of the other great Giants that have played.
The key word in there is "great", and I have a complete opposite take. I can't believe how differently he is treated NEGATIVELY vs. other great Giants.
When was the last time you had a group of posters continually questioning a great Giant? when is the last time you had people denigrating accomplishments of great Giants?
Do people come on here and say Strahan was overrated, now or when he was playing? Do people rip on LT? Do people talk about how inconsistent Hampton or Tiki was?
From what I've seen on BBI, Eli is one of the only players period who has routine discussions about his play. Heck, even in the aftermath of the SB wins, you had people saying we were lucky. That Asante Samuel had a sure INT slip through his hands. That Mark Sanchez was as much of a leader as Eli.
Ridiculous crap like that has existed for years.
People can't get over the fact that Eli is not Peyton or Brady. He's a Hall of Fame qb that led us to 2 SBs. But he wasn't near perfect, so apparently that's not good enough for some.
I think it's pretty obvious that McAdoo started Geno because he was trying to get some wins to save his job. Geno, for all his warts, had at least some NFL experience while Webb was/is a babe.
The Giants don’t ever have to give those Lombardi trophies back if he doesn’t make it. And you all should know well and good his performance in both of those playoff runs contributed greatly to making it happen.
Lord...current day Giant fans have such a self-concept problem its comical sometimes...
I find it incredible and annoying how much differently he is treated by some fans than any of the other great Giants that have played.
The key word in there is "great", and I have a complete opposite take. I can't believe how differently he is treated NEGATIVELY vs. other great Giants.
When was the last time you had a group of posters continually questioning a great Giant? when is the last time you had people denigrating accomplishments of great Giants?
Do people come on here and say Strahan was overrated, now or when he was playing? Do people rip on LT? Do people talk about how inconsistent Hampton or Tiki was?
From what I've seen on BBI, Eli is one of the only players period who has routine discussions about his play. Heck, even in the aftermath of the SB wins, you had people saying we were lucky. That Asante Samuel had a sure INT slip through his hands. That Mark Sanchez was as much of a leader as Eli.
Ridiculous crap like that has existed for years.
It's a tough comparison to make here. Michael Strahan is one of the best defensive ends of all time. He won a Defensive Player of the year title and made an All-Decade team. 22.5 is still a record. There were really no flaws in his game. Played the run as well as the pass. Did everything at an elite level. Got older, adjusted, and still dominated.
Eli Manning is going to live in history for the winning, and is a very productive quarterback, but I don't view them as being on the same level.
It's a tough comparison to make here. Michael Strahan is one of the best defensive ends of all time. He won a Defensive Player of the year title and made an All-Decade team. 22.5 is still a record. There were really no flaws in his game. Played the run as well as the pass. Did everything at an elite level. Got older, adjusted, and still dominated.
Eli Manning is going to live in history for the winning, and is a very productive quarterback, but I don't view them as being on the same level.
I said there haven't been other great Giants put under the microscope with constant questioning, even from our own fan base, like Eli Manning.
It has gotten to the point where people not only bash Eli, they lay the majority of the blame for not winning on his shoulders.
It has been quite bizarre to see it unfold that way.
would somebody call an offense predicated on sight reads by both the QB and all WR's, and having three plays to audible in and out of at the LOS on every play "too rigid".
would somebody call an offense predicated on sight reads by both the QB and all WR's, and having three plays to audible in and out of at the LOS on every play "too rigid".
I don't think that's what people mean. Option routes often depend on both the QB and the WR not just being capable of reading defenses (which WRs coming out of college simply don't have experience doing for the most part), but also being familiar enough with each other to know which route to run based on what reads. Problems occur when there's miscommunication and the passer and receiver don't see things the same way.
The offense isn't rigid. But, if you don't have the personnel to run it, and you don't make the adjustments and work with that you have, that would be what people are referring to as rigid.
They were top 10 in scoring every year except his first and last as... Â
It's not Gilbride's fault he couldn't make an adjustment to having zero offensive line in 2013.
And further, it's the general managers job to build the roster to the strength of the team, not vice versa.
When you look back at it, Gilbride was scapegoated, because the ONLY year he didn't have a decent scoring offense was 2013, and that's because we now know (some of us knew it then) that the offensive line was shit.
It's a tough comparison to make here. Michael Strahan is one of the best defensive ends of all time. He won a Defensive Player of the year title and made an All-Decade team. 22.5 is still a record. There were really no flaws in his game. Played the run as well as the pass. Did everything at an elite level. Got older, adjusted, and still dominated.
Eli Manning is going to live in history for the winning, and is a very productive quarterback, but I don't view them as being on the same level.
I said there haven't been other great Giants put under the microscope with constant questioning, even from our own fan base, like Eli Manning.
It has gotten to the point where people not only bash Eli, they lay the majority of the blame for not winning on his shoulders.
It has been quite bizarre to see it unfold that way.
But the positions are so different it's not fair to make that comparison. The QB is ALWAYS the most heavily scrutinized position. Any time a QB has a clunker of a game it's easily noticed by even the least knowledgeable fans.
A fairer comparison would be to compare Eli to Simms, who got raked over pretty regularly when he had bad games iirc. Eli gets a lot of criticism for his recent play because of the recent outcomes of the offense, which has been abysmal for the past two years.
Furthermore even when the offense has been very good, it's impossible for any team to perform without flaw.
Fair or not, it comes with the territory. In that sense it shouldn't be some shocking surprise that he gets dumped on regularly.
I find it incredible and annoying how much differently he is treated by some fans than any of the other great Giants that have played.
The key word in there is "great", and I have a complete opposite take. I can't believe how differently he is treated NEGATIVELY vs. other great Giants.
When was the last time you had a group of posters continually questioning a great Giant? when is the last time you had people denigrating accomplishments of great Giants?
Do people come on here and say Strahan was overrated, now or when he was playing? Do people rip on LT? Do people talk about how inconsistent Hampton or Tiki was?
From what I've seen on BBI, Eli is one of the only players period who has routine discussions about his play. Heck, even in the aftermath of the SB wins, you had people saying we were lucky. That Asante Samuel had a sure INT slip through his hands. That Mark Sanchez was as much of a leader as Eli.
Ridiculous crap like that has existed for years.
It's a tough comparison to make here. Michael Strahan is one of the best defensive ends of all time. He won a Defensive Player of the year title and made an All-Decade team. 22.5 is still a record. There were really no flaws in his game. Played the run as well as the pass. Did everything at an elite level. Got older, adjusted, and still dominated.
Eli Manning is going to live in history for the winning, and is a very productive quarterback, but I don't view them as being on the same level.
Until we won the SB in 2007 he caught a ton of crap on here. Many wrote his name as $trahan. No one was talking about what a great leader he was until that famous clip before the final drive. He got to ride off in the sunset on a great note and no one seems to remember anything bad that was said about him before. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy, one of my favorites, but people seem to forget anything negative.
my point is that "great" Giants don't take flack. Once Strahan was established, all the crap that bw used to spew about $trahan was ignored. Nobody crapped on Carson, Banks, Tiki, Hampton, Armstead and others when they were in the twilight of their great careers.
Eli on the other hand is looked at as an albatross. Heck, some hold him responsible for McAdoo getting fired or think that he has the FO in a trance to build the team around him.
my point is that "great" Giants don't take flack. Once Strahan was established, all the crap that bw used to spew about $trahan was ignored. Nobody crapped on Carson, Banks, Tiki, Hampton, Armstead and others when they were in the twilight of their great careers.
Eli on the other hand is looked at as an albatross. Heck, some hold him responsible for McAdoo getting fired or think that he has the FO in a trance to build the team around him.
Just bizarre takes all over the place.
I don't disagree with anything you said, my response was to the last poster.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: You really have to wonder how this person got hired Â
Quote:
For all those years did they think they had a great roster held back by bad coaching? F that.
if gilbride, coughlin and fewell are so great, why were none of them offered coordinator or head coaching jobs after they were fired by the giants?
Seriously?? Coughlin did not get another head coaching job because team's were looking at his age and looking to hire younger head coaches. If Coughlin was younger, he would have had no problem getting a head coaching job. Gilbride was 62 by the time the giants decided to make a change and he decided to retire. He spent 25 years in the NFL. Gilbride could have gotten a job if he wanted one. He certainly had the resume to warrant interest from other team's.
Fewell was the only exception as far as getting another defensive coordinator position, but he was hired as a defensive backs coach and remains one.
Quote:
In comment 14014665 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
For all those years did they think they had a great roster held back by bad coaching? F that.
if gilbride, coughlin and fewell are so great, why were none of them offered coordinator or head coaching jobs after they were fired by the giants?
Seriously?? Coughlin did not get another head coaching job because team's were looking at his age and looking to hire younger head coaches. If Coughlin was younger, he would have had no problem getting a head coaching job. Gilbride was 62 by the time the giants decided to make a change and he decided to retire. He spent 25 years in the NFL. Gilbride could have gotten a job if he wanted one. He certainly had the resume to warrant interest from other team's.
Fewell was the only exception as far as getting another defensive coordinator position, but he was hired as a defensive backs coach and remains one.
the mistake the giants made was overvvaluing continuity of the offensive playbook/system in selecting McAdoo and undervaluing other traits of effective coaches (attention to detail, effective delegation, adaptability, ability to inspire, unite and manage the players). they should have looked outside the box.
That the only possible reason to play Geno was to save his job and not to help the team's future out --
MacAdoo is still blowing arrogant smoke up our asses -- and can not accept/admit that he selfishly broke Eli's string to try to save his own ass
And Peter King is 100% correct about that.
That the only possible reason to play Geno was to save his job and not to help the team's future out --
MacAdoo is still blowing arrogant smoke up our asses -- and can not accept/admit that he selfishly broke Eli's string to try to save his own ass
You are pretty arrogant about this.
He wasn't going to just throw Webb to the wolves.
Webb didn't have any first or second team reps. Geno did. By starting Geno Webb moved up to the second team and started getting reps there.
Throwing Webb out there with no reps at all on that level would have shown them absolutely nothing about his talent.
If he was preparing all year it would have been a different story.
Gilbride and Coughlin tailored the offense to the team's strength and especially Eli's strengths. A strong running game with Bradshaw and Jacobs. The play action was effective and from 2008 to 2012 the offense was top 10 in both points scored and yards.
Gilbride was the offensive coordinator from 2007 to 2013. It was just like gilbride said, injuries mounted at so many positions and the offensive line deteriorated once Diehl, Snee and O'Hara got older and retired.
You are pretty arrogant about this.
He wasn't going to just throw Webb to the wolves.
Webb didn't have any first or second team reps. Geno did. By starting Geno Webb moved up to the second team and started getting reps there.
Throwing Webb out there with no reps at all on that level would have shown them absolutely nothing about his talent.
If he was preparing all year it would have been a different story.
I am arrogant?
Maybe you should take the trouble to read Peter Kings article instead of my comments -- King also makes the point - that it was M______'s failure to get Webb ready that was the real problem.
You want to defend M_________ go right ahead - but find some source of authority because the above statements in quotes are naive
I still believe Eli can play, and I m glad he s still a Giant, even though I wanted Darnold or Allen.
But I do get annoyed at the lack of objectivity often found in discussions regarding Eli.
Quote:
I find it incredible and annoying how much differently he is treated by some fans than any of the other great Giants that have played.
The key word in there is "great", and I have a complete opposite take. I can't believe how differently he is treated NEGATIVELY vs. other great Giants.
When was the last time you had a group of posters continually questioning a great Giant? when is the last time you had people denigrating accomplishments of great Giants?
Do people come on here and say Strahan was overrated, now or when he was playing? Do people rip on LT? Do people talk about how inconsistent Hampton or Tiki was?
From what I've seen on BBI, Eli is one of the only players period who has routine discussions about his play. Heck, even in the aftermath of the SB wins, you had people saying we were lucky. That Asante Samuel had a sure INT slip through his hands. That Mark Sanchez was as much of a leader as Eli.
Ridiculous crap like that has existed for years.
People can't get over the fact that Eli is not Peyton or Brady. He's a Hall of Fame qb that led us to 2 SBs. But he wasn't near perfect, so apparently that's not good enough for some.
The Giants don’t ever have to give those Lombardi trophies back if he doesn’t make it. And you all should know well and good his performance in both of those playoff runs contributed greatly to making it happen.
Lord...current day Giant fans have such a self-concept problem its comical sometimes...
Quote:
I find it incredible and annoying how much differently he is treated by some fans than any of the other great Giants that have played.
The key word in there is "great", and I have a complete opposite take. I can't believe how differently he is treated NEGATIVELY vs. other great Giants.
When was the last time you had a group of posters continually questioning a great Giant? when is the last time you had people denigrating accomplishments of great Giants?
Do people come on here and say Strahan was overrated, now or when he was playing? Do people rip on LT? Do people talk about how inconsistent Hampton or Tiki was?
From what I've seen on BBI, Eli is one of the only players period who has routine discussions about his play. Heck, even in the aftermath of the SB wins, you had people saying we were lucky. That Asante Samuel had a sure INT slip through his hands. That Mark Sanchez was as much of a leader as Eli.
Ridiculous crap like that has existed for years.
It's a tough comparison to make here. Michael Strahan is one of the best defensive ends of all time. He won a Defensive Player of the year title and made an All-Decade team. 22.5 is still a record. There were really no flaws in his game. Played the run as well as the pass. Did everything at an elite level. Got older, adjusted, and still dominated.
Eli Manning is going to live in history for the winning, and is a very productive quarterback, but I don't view them as being on the same level.
Some people have short memories about that guy. It's pretty incredible how little time it takes for fans to look back with rose-colored beer goggles.
Eli Manning is going to live in history for the winning, and is a very productive quarterback, but I don't view them as being on the same level.
I said there haven't been other great Giants put under the microscope with constant questioning, even from our own fan base, like Eli Manning.
It has gotten to the point where people not only bash Eli, they lay the majority of the blame for not winning on his shoulders.
It has been quite bizarre to see it unfold that way.
I don't think that's what people mean. Option routes often depend on both the QB and the WR not just being capable of reading defenses (which WRs coming out of college simply don't have experience doing for the most part), but also being familiar enough with each other to know which route to run based on what reads. Problems occur when there's miscommunication and the passer and receiver don't see things the same way.
The offense isn't rigid. But, if you don't have the personnel to run it, and you don't make the adjustments and work with that you have, that would be what people are referring to as rigid.
It's not Gilbride's fault he couldn't make an adjustment to having zero offensive line in 2013.
And further, it's the general managers job to build the roster to the strength of the team, not vice versa.
When you look back at it, Gilbride was scapegoated, because the ONLY year he didn't have a decent scoring offense was 2013, and that's because we now know (some of us knew it then) that the offensive line was shit.
Who was he supposed to adapt for? Jernigan?
Quote:
It's a tough comparison to make here. Michael Strahan is one of the best defensive ends of all time. He won a Defensive Player of the year title and made an All-Decade team. 22.5 is still a record. There were really no flaws in his game. Played the run as well as the pass. Did everything at an elite level. Got older, adjusted, and still dominated.
Eli Manning is going to live in history for the winning, and is a very productive quarterback, but I don't view them as being on the same level.
I said there haven't been other great Giants put under the microscope with constant questioning, even from our own fan base, like Eli Manning.
It has gotten to the point where people not only bash Eli, they lay the majority of the blame for not winning on his shoulders.
It has been quite bizarre to see it unfold that way.
But the positions are so different it's not fair to make that comparison. The QB is ALWAYS the most heavily scrutinized position. Any time a QB has a clunker of a game it's easily noticed by even the least knowledgeable fans.
A fairer comparison would be to compare Eli to Simms, who got raked over pretty regularly when he had bad games iirc. Eli gets a lot of criticism for his recent play because of the recent outcomes of the offense, which has been abysmal for the past two years.
Furthermore even when the offense has been very good, it's impossible for any team to perform without flaw.
Fair or not, it comes with the territory. In that sense it shouldn't be some shocking surprise that he gets dumped on regularly.
Quote:
think this is true??
Quote:
I find it incredible and annoying how much differently he is treated by some fans than any of the other great Giants that have played.
The key word in there is "great", and I have a complete opposite take. I can't believe how differently he is treated NEGATIVELY vs. other great Giants.
When was the last time you had a group of posters continually questioning a great Giant? when is the last time you had people denigrating accomplishments of great Giants?
Do people come on here and say Strahan was overrated, now or when he was playing? Do people rip on LT? Do people talk about how inconsistent Hampton or Tiki was?
From what I've seen on BBI, Eli is one of the only players period who has routine discussions about his play. Heck, even in the aftermath of the SB wins, you had people saying we were lucky. That Asante Samuel had a sure INT slip through his hands. That Mark Sanchez was as much of a leader as Eli.
Ridiculous crap like that has existed for years.
It's a tough comparison to make here. Michael Strahan is one of the best defensive ends of all time. He won a Defensive Player of the year title and made an All-Decade team. 22.5 is still a record. There were really no flaws in his game. Played the run as well as the pass. Did everything at an elite level. Got older, adjusted, and still dominated.
Eli Manning is going to live in history for the winning, and is a very productive quarterback, but I don't view them as being on the same level.
Until we won the SB in 2007 he caught a ton of crap on here. Many wrote his name as $trahan. No one was talking about what a great leader he was until that famous clip before the final drive. He got to ride off in the sunset on a great note and no one seems to remember anything bad that was said about him before. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy, one of my favorites, but people seem to forget anything negative.
Eli on the other hand is looked at as an albatross. Heck, some hold him responsible for McAdoo getting fired or think that he has the FO in a trance to build the team around him.
Just bizarre takes all over the place.
Eli on the other hand is looked at as an albatross. Heck, some hold him responsible for McAdoo getting fired or think that he has the FO in a trance to build the team around him.
Just bizarre takes all over the place.
I don't disagree with anything you said, my response was to the last poster.
Quote:
For all those years did they think they had a great roster held back by bad coaching? F that.
if gilbride, coughlin and fewell are so great, why were none of them offered coordinator or head coaching jobs after they were fired by the giants?
Did Gilbride even seek another position elsewhere? I thought he made it clear he was retiring.
TC took the job of running an organization so that point is moot.
Is anyone even raving about Fewell having been so great?